Kerry Bloggers Made a Difference

Very kewl. ;-)

We worked hard on the food too. Remember the potato salad? And baked beans? The tent just kept getting bigger and bigger... and that's what we'll be doing again.

Great big tent. Very effective cells. Onward! :-)

well that blog certainly made a difference in MY life! =)

Very very interesting data, Karen - imagine what we can do with alot of lead time (elections, reform)

LOL- a "so-called" blog for a so-called president

btw- wonder how long it will take to get our 1st troll?

Renaming things:

Bush Economic Program = Operation Anaconda

Bush Social Program = Left Behind

WE must retake some other words. Conservative and Liberal. Republicans sure are LIBERAL spenders. And pork barrel isn't fiscally CONSERVATIVE.

"It's the theory of the hour, anger can be power, to know that you can use it" - The Clash.

Reminds me, anyone seen Mark Trager? He should really be here....

OK, so what is the first thing a cell can do toward the midterm elections?

I think we should start a targeting campaign for vulnerable seats.

I also think we should point out and encourage the in-party GOP sniping (ie, Duncan Hunter rebelling against the prezodent).

BTW, Tim Russert was really on-point with McCain on Sunday. "You have a republican congress, a republican president, isn't the deficit a republican problem?"

REPUBLICAN PROBLEM

there's some good word association for you.
republicans want liberty and justice for some.

'gnite all.

I feel like I'm home again.

:-D

hexham, great brainstorming there. love the phrases you came up with.

I think targeting open seats, at all levels of government, is something that can stem from here. When we begin to grow and are able to identify and work with cells in our own local areas... anything is possible. The energy is still out there.

Earlier in the day I posted some sad poll numbers. If you missed them, see:

http://kerryblog.blogspot.com/2004/11/triumph-of-ignorance.html

Here's some more encouraging numbers, from a condensed version of the NY Times I posted on the Unofficial Blog:

There's several items of interest in a new New York Times/CBS News poll. Here's a condensed version of their findings:

At a time when the White House has portrayed Mr. Bush's 3.5-million-vote victory as a mandate, the poll found that Americans are at best ambivalent about Mr. Bush's plans to reshape Social Security, rewrite the tax code, cut taxes and appoint conservative judges to the bench. There is continuing disapproval of Mr. Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, with a plurality now saying it was a mistake to invade in the first place.

While Democrats, not surprisingly, were the staunchest opponents of many elements of Mr. Bush's second-term agenda, the concerns extended across party lines in some cases. Nearly two-thirds of all respondents - including 51 percent of Republicans - said it was more important to reduce deficits than to cut taxes, a central element of Mr. Bush's economic agenda.

The poll reflected the electoral feat of the Bush campaign this year. He won despite the fact that Americans disapproved of his handling of the economy, foreign affairs and the war in Iraq. There has been a slight increase in the number of Americans who believe the nation should never have gone into Iraq. A majority of Americans continue to believe the country is going in the wrong direction, traditionally a warning sign for an incumbent.

Even as two-thirds of respondents said they expected Mr. Bush to appoint judges who would vote to outlaw abortion, a majority continue to say they want the practice to remain either legal as it is now, which was Mr. Kerry's position, or to be legal but under stricter limits.

Americans said they opposed changing the Constitution to ban same-sex marriage, which Mr. Bush campaigned on in the final weeks of his campaign. A majority continue to support allowing either same-sex marriages or legally recognized domestic partnerships for gay people.

The public appears ambivalent about the two proposals that Mr. Bush has identified as his major domestic initiatives for a second term: rewriting the Social Security system and reshaping the tax code, including more tax cuts.

On the tax code, administration officials are discussing plans that would, among other things, lower the tax rate on higher-income Americans and eliminate some deductions. In the poll, more than 6 in 10 of the respondents said people with higher incomes should pay a greater proportion of their income in taxes; 3 in 10 said all income groups should pay the same proportion.

About one-third of the respondents said the tax cuts passed in Mr. Bush's first term had been good for the economy; but nearly a fifth said they had done more harm, and just under half said the tax cuts had made little difference.

On Social Security, 45 percent said a proposal to permit people to invest their Social Security withholding money in private accounts was a bad idea; 49 percent said it was a good idea. The poll also found little confidence among Americans that Mr. Bush would assure the future solvency of the program: 51 percent said that Mr. Bush was unlikely to "make sure Social Security benefits are there for people like me."

In this poll, when allowed freely to name the issue that was most important in their vote, 6 percent chose moral values, although smaller numbers named issues like abortion and same-sex marriage. On a separate question in which voters were given a choice of nine issues, 5 percent chose abortion, 4 percent chose stem cell research and 2 percent chose same-sex marriage.

The top issue was the economy and jobs, which was cited by 29 percent of respondents.

By 48 percent to 40 percent, respondents said they believed four more years of a Bush presidency would divide the nation more than it would unite it.

Finally, in one bit of presumably good news for a party that is looking for it, Americans now have a better opinion of the Democratic Party than of the Republican Party: 54 percent said they had a favorable view of Democrats, compared with 39 percent with an unfavorable view. By contrast, 49 percent have a favorable view of Republicans, compared with 46 percent holding an unfavorable one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/national/23poll.html?hp&ex=1101186000&en=65f079e7e323f9ce&ei=5094&partner=homepage

It may take a while (we have some 'venting' to do), but eventually, we have to separate the 'republicans' from the 'neofascist', they are two different parties...republicans have a 'social agenda', it just differs from ours...Neofascist HAVE NO SOCIAL AGENDA, only conquest and power for the few that control it.

We must show republicans that it is in THEIR best interest to out the Neofascist party that is attempting to take over our country by coup in January.

good night to all:) busy day tomorrow for me....

I am not a Kerry Supportor. I did vote for him. I believe the Party has lost focus. I would like to participate in any input.

Posted by: Sean Lewis | November 22, 2004 11:33 PM

Welcome Sean...

There is much work to be done indeed. All are welcome who are concerned about America's future and this is a place for discussion and resolution.

Please visit and post often.

A Stronger America Begins With You...pass it on!

Wow, I am so impressed with this group. We are so focused on making a difference in the United States of America, on making a difference for all Americans. This is such a special group of people,

Hex, I could not agree more. We need to target vulnerable Repubs for the midterms and start working at the grassroots level now.

I don't have time now to look at this in detail, but I suspect there might be some interesting material in this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/pioneers/pioneers_spheres.html?nav=lb

From the previous thread:

As one of the main objectives of this blog is to hold the media accountable. I nominate Joe Trippi for special consideration. I am watching him on Hardball. I am almost short of breath with rage, as I listen to him say that the Democratic Party did not have any new ideas for the voters to consider. It is exactly this this type of lying that merits a concentrated effort to expose this type of distortion when it rears its ugly head.

doc's post is so true. we need to be inclusive and we need to take our country and our language back.

Hi bloggers. Found the joint! Just catching up on the posts. Hope all is well, all things considered.

Hi Pollyroadkill,

Glad you found us. we are truly becoming a community again.

Sean, thanks for voicing your opinion.

You needn't be a Kerry supporter, or even a Democrat to be here. This blog is home to all of us concerned with America's future, especially with elections and media.

We are the people, we are in charge. We need everyone's voice to be heard and everyone's fingerprints on better legislation. By working together we can improve this country from the ground up. You, me and everyone else here are taking part in an historic movement.

Sean, feel free to share your ideas and be involved. E Pluribus Unum

Hi everyone--nice to see some familiar names again.

Hi Ginny!

Welcome Home!

thanks, Indy, I do feel like I'm home :-)

thank goodness for the blog! i do't feel so lonely anymore!! ;-)

http://artistsforkerry.com/forum/index.php?s=7e7027501dfec8c1220e3e7d7f5bf61c&showtopic=102

Notes from Ohio voter suppression hearing in Columbus

11/15

excerpt:

Steven Hayman

- voted in Pickerington; no problem with punchcard machines or waiting there

- was a volunteer in Columbus 51A on Moler Road

- voters were confused by two polling locations on Moler Rd, at 1201 and 1560

- lost at least 75 voters in the 12.5 hours

- there were about 150 people in line at nominal poll closing of 7:30; one machine

- "Ohio has a new poll tax: if you can't afford to wait in line for four hours, you don't vote."

For the full notes please go to:

http://artistsforkerry.com/forum/index.php?s=7e7027501dfec8c1220e3e7d7f5bf61c&showtopic=102

http://www.campaigndesk.org/archives/001126.asp

Since media issues have become so relevant to our cause, thought I'd mention that the Campaign Desk has become the CJR Daily. Their intent is to critique press performance, primarily the journalism of politics and government. Here's a quote from their intro page:

"Never has the media din been louder; never has its ownership been so concentrated in so few hands; never has it seemed as if inadequate coverage was capable of doing such damage; never have the media been more central to American political life."

Good evening everyone. Tonight in Berkeley the skies are wonderfully clear. I hope over the next several weeks, months, and even years we start something here at DCP, actually I hope we continue something that has been going on for a very long time. It is the struggle of us common people to understand, reveal, and seek justice in the world around us. We will be talking here about our communities, and our projects, mainly media reform and election reform. Because caring for the least among us and finding the best among us is what the United States strives to be about at the level of its citizenry, and we want to show the world positive values instead of images of brutality. So, good luck everyone, I am very glad that everyone has found their voices again.

Best of luck,
Andrew in CA

Hello Kerry Bloggers!

Thank you Dick Bell for this wonderful new Blog!

I've been lurking off and on during the day, since I first got the email about this, but business has been keeping me away...

So before I call it a day, I just want to sahre my wishes of success for the Democracy Cell Project!

Pamela aka Kerrygoddess

Pamela, so nice to see you here! Sorry about the election, you worked so hard. Here's a WaPo article on FCC Chairman Michael Powell.

Michael Powell Exposed! The FCC Chairman Has No Clothes
Oops. They got rid of the wrong Powell. The father unfortunately is going, but the son, even more unfortunately, remains behind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A62718-2004Nov19?language=printer

Democracy Cells in Pennsylvania, the time is now. Rendell is reportedly leaning toward vetoing this bill, let's make sure he does.

WASHINGTON – Free Press, the national media reform group, today called on Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell to veto a bill that would prevent local communities in the state from providing broadband Internet services that compete with private companies.
http://www.freepress.net/news/release.php?id=35

PS, to telephone the Governor call:
(717) 787-2500.

Hello All!

Hadn't seen a lot of these folks in a while! I missed you all!

cookerfox!!! WELCOME!, and great to see you:)

Good morning all :)busy day for me here, I'll be back on later in the evening. sc kitty, welcome to you as well, dont have to be lonely anymore ;)

Thanks PC...

Good to see you too!

I am still ticked at the election, but we will prevail. I was telling my wife that the only plus I saw was that the shrub admin will now be able to so destroy the country that it could greatly affect their party and hopefully put a major dent into it.

They are already doing the stuff we predicted they would. This admin is a total joke. I just don't know how anyone with half a brain could not see through their farce.

Signs

And the sign says "long hair freaky people need not apply"
So I put my hair under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine outstanding young man I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said "Imagine that Huh Me working for you"

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Blocking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

And the sign says "Anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight"
So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house, Hey! What gives you the right
To put up a fence And keep me out Or to keep Mother Nature in
If God was here He'd tell it to your face Man You're some kind of sinner

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
F*cking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

Oh Say now mister Can't you read
You got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't watch No You can't eat You ain't supposed to be here

And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh

And the sign says "Everybody welcome Come in Kneel down and pray"
But then they passed around a plate at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own f*cking sign
I said Thank you Lord for thinking about me I'm alive and doing fine

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
F*cking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
F*cking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign

I hear that one Marc!

I think about that song every time I see a clip on what the shrubies are doing.

Hey Cooker-Great to see you here!! It's been pretty awful these last few weeks huh?!
There is a part of me that agree's with you that maybe this election result will be the neocon's undoing as they over-reach & are exposed as the extremeist's that they are. I am afraid that there will be too much damage done by then, though.

Posted by: cookerfox | November 23, 2004 09:12 AM

I know how you feel; it's been three weeks now, but I'm starting to feel more optimistic. You're right, the Bushies are going to be exposed more and more as time goes on.
There is a report over at Daily Kos today on the general ambivalence people have to BushCo--he has NO mandate, no matter what he says. People generally favor Kerry's views on issues.
Problem was, I think, fear of change during war, and the Democratic Party not having a good image. I do think Kerry was a good candidate.
My mom is an example: she voted for Bush, but not because she really liked him. She would have voted for Kerry if he had been a Republican, I think. But it was too scary to change parties, even with such a miserable president--so she stuck with the "devil" she knew.

Absolutely friggin' GREAT to see my patriotic friends again!

I'm under NO ONE'S thumb!

They are already doing the stuff we predicted they would. This admin is a total joke. I just don't know how anyone with half a brain could not see through their farce.

Posted by: cookerfox | November 23, 2004 09:12 AM
=======================================

Now that the Repugs have "control". We can always publicize the fact that Americans have only the Republicans to blame for all the legislative mistakes, and executive blunders. They failed to pass the 9/11 commission recommendations.They have cut funding to small businesses with the omnibus debt ceilling bill, they cut student loan funding for higher education, they tried to make everyone's tax return information open for public scrutiny,.... and this is only the beginning. We also have a war that has resulted in a back door draft. This is our best chance to appeal to those people who demand a government for all Americans.

We have to publicize those efforts and mistakes, and hold to the fire those accountable for them. At the same time we have to give positive recognition to those legislators who are attempting to stop the tidal wave of anti-American legislation. We also have to give more support to those introducing positive change. For example John Kerry's plan to introduce a health insurance plan for unisnured children, and Senator Durbin's recommendations about the number of times somebody can be called to active duty.

Posted by: Marc Trager | November 23, 2004 10:24 AM

Hey Marc! Good to see the channels of communication and ideas are once again open and flowing freely!

Be at Peace Brother!

Posted by: Marc Trager | November 23, 2004 10:24 AM

Yeah Marc--being cut off from the Kerry bloggers was a big loss--so thanks to the ones who started this blog! United we stand!

Ginny,

Referring to your upthread post: If it is an image issue, then what in the world is the DNC going to do? We do not need an "extreme makeover". We need a vibrant, articulate, compassionate, and convincing leader for Chair of the DNC. Our message is not just a Democratic message, it is a message of hope for all Americans. Perhaps a dual leadership may be an appropriate compromise, Dean for fund raising, and Vilsak for the public airways/media. (?)

Gee, what a shock...

Spending bills plagued by secretive process

Critics outraged over surprises in massive budget measures

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6562493/

Posted by: Marc Trager | November 23, 2004 10:45 AM

Just sent you and article...you should be seated when you read it.

Good Morning Bloggers!

It's a cold gray day here in Washington DC, so it is wonderful to be able to come here and see old friends. But this blog is going to be more than a reunion site. So keep coming back because we will be adding features daily!

We are a small but committed and experienced group of online organizers. We come from all parts of the country (and world!) and all political persuasions. We need more diversity here, but we will reach out as we can and welcome the range of opinions and perspectives out there.

But we have one goal in common: to disseminate the message about democracy.

Someone asked my son (age 15) what the values of a liberal were. He looked at me and I told him (and he passed it along):

LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL.

I agree with Indy that the word *values* is loaded and mushy. I too like the notion of talking about our beliefs as *principles*. I like the idea of principled actions. I think what we can create here are a series of sequential, principled actions that build on each other to a point where the darkness is lit, the walls become permeable, and all boats can rise. (Is that enough metaphors in one sentence?)

Together, we can change this country around. Margaret Mead, once again:

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

Hello again all,

I would like to just touch on the closing of the John Kerry blog.

What do we have to do to keep that from happening again.

Don't post on official blogs... win?
To me the shut down of the blog was not nice... regardless of the loss, regardless of the rules, regardless of the state the bloggers got in or the trolls visits.

Very very bad to shutdown so many folks completely emotionally involved in the moment. (and I know all the excuses for it, so don't restate those.)

Just tell me how we can prevent such a total shutdown next time?

PS Whom are we supporting next time... I will say it now, just as I did in the primary caucus for Kerry....

THEY WILL KILL HILLARY ON HER PAST RECORD, JUST LIKE THEY DID KERRY.

Am I the only one who has watched the voting records (c-span) even in non-election times. We need to pick a candidate that is acceptable to everyone... forget trying to change the red states to blue... Just pick a great candidate, a really clean candidate.

What think old friends?
posted really at 5:56am Hawaii time.
Faith O'Neill

Hillary is NOT an option IMHO... and quite frankly, I never thought she was.

Moltar be in da house!

indy, my bruthah!

Got the article... nothing there that suprises me at all... I guess they skipped that whole "freedom of religion" thing when studying history.

I'm guessing they are gonna have a "David Koresh Library" building fundraiser sometime soon at Liberty (and I use the term loosley) Unifarcity.

Kool-Aid! Get yer ice cold Kool-Aid here...

The Moral Majority is NEITHER.

Marc-couldn't agree more-Hillary is Not an option. As much as I personally would love to see her run, she is MUCH too polarizing to win. What do you think about Gov. Bill Richardson of NM?

Hey Moltar

You found us!

faith, I don't know what the reasons were for shutting down the Kerry blog the way they did, but I was really shocked when Kerry conceded, then vanished. What about fighting for the last vote? Tracking down every injustice with that 10,000 lawyer team and Learjets spooled up and ready? What about that $15,000,000? My one hope is that there is some vast underground effort that Kerry will spring up with, PROVING vote fraud without a doubt in OH and FL. OK, it's a fantasy.

They should have at least drawn out the process to let us down easier, like "we're tracking this now"; "it's not looking hopeful"; "we've tried every scenario and it just doesn't work".

I checked out the DFA blog and they were ... less than optimally frendly.

Hello, nancyjane - Indeed I did, thanks to faith1. I'll pass the word to battlebob.

Hey Moltar!

Welcome Back!

Hope on!

http://www.northcountynews.com/view.asp?s=11-17-04/news5.htm

i have a big smile on my face reading all the comments. thanks, everyone! ;-)

Finally, in one bit of presumably good news for a party that is looking for it, Americans now have a better opinion of the Democratic Party than of the Republican Party: 54 percent said they had a favorable view of Democrats, compared with 39 percent with an unfavorable view. By contrast, 49 percent have a favorable view of Republicans, compared with 46 percent holding an unfavorable one.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/national/23poll.html?th

Americans Show Clear Concerns On Bush Agenda

Interesting article worth reading

In the end Kerry turned out to be the politician he has become... yes?

I am not judging this as a bad thing, just fact.

I am sick of politicians, actually.
Would like to get behind a Lincoln, or dare I say... another Dean?

They say McCain is being groomed by the repubs...

Interesting times and as usual, we shall see which way the worm turns... I believe the DNP will choose Hillary regardless of what we want.

have you seen this?

We the undersigned, endorse the following petition:
Reject Nomination of Bush and Blair for Nobel Prize

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/302184339?ts=1101226624&sign[partner_userID]=640066968&sign[memberID]=640066968&sign[partnerID]=1

Faith why do you say that in the end Kerry turned out to be just another politician?

Hi All,

I am not going to say much about the shutting down of the blog so rudely except to ask everyone here to understand that neither Dick nor I had anything to do with it.

As for John Kerry himself, we saw him a few days later and he was making it quite clear that he WAS fighting for every vote. The lawyers are STILL in Ohio and Florida and whenever they find a concern, they are filing in the courts.

But the overarching fraud that was perpetrated in this election was not the machines that didn;t work or the petty local fights; the real fraud was the continued disenfranchiselment of African-American voters and other people of color AND the fraud directed at the people who voted for Bush. They were sold a bill of goods by snake-oil salesmen.

Our purpose here should be very clear--We are not trying to get John Kerry elected or George Bush impeached--those outcomes are out of our hands, and will unfold only if eveidence appears that is irrefutable and holds up in court.

What we CAN do is to continue to encourage the kind of research and message that is needed to take back the media and to reform the voting in this country. This blog is not about partisan efforts and frankly, I have no interest, personally, in who takes over the DNC. I AM interested in how individual voices--informed and highly skilled voices--can help to wake people up to the comprehensively WRONG direction this country is heading in.

Voices woven together in harmony become a choir. But you have to PRACTICE.

Welcome back to rehearsal.

I was sooo pleased yesterday to see that the Kerry camp had join the OH recount (posted on msnbc). Then I checked today and it said that the Kerry camp released another statement replacing the word "join" with "participate" (saw it at democrats.com). Do you guys know why they did that

Hey Karen

I totally agree with you

My own Renoylds hat opinion, That Kerry conceded because it put him in a win - win. You bet the lawyers were looking at FL and OH, and if nothing came of it, Kerry looks classy.
If something does, concession speechs mean nothing.
But see this, from our mainstream friend:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

Faith,, Marc, Moltar, The party is just starting so glad to see you.

Posted by: faith1 | November 23, 2004 11:19 AM

Faith...Love you Babe, but on the Kerry Blog I could not tell you this...but here I can...

You had better cop a better attitude and quit your freaking whining...

This is an open forum for ALL AMERICANS and either you are part of the solution or you are part of the problem.

I have never known a Revolution to have succeeded in History by bitching...this site is about Ideas and Action of the individuals...not for someone to give you your way on a silver platter and not to dictate action to others.

If you like the ideas presented for action, you get involved, if not, do not condemn that of which you know nothing!

Now please get whatever re-adjustment you need to remain positive and stop behaving like a victim...there are no victims...only volunteers...I don't think you want to allow the Neocons to bat you around now do you?

Get up and fight with the rest of us or spew your critique at your own risk here.

This is a Movement and we will not be brought down by negativity and worry-making or living in the past of what ifs...

Kapiche?

Karen,

I agree that there are problems with the word "values" but I still suggest using to prevent the word from being totally identified by the right. They have taken over far too many words and ideas. We don't need people also believing that only conservatives have values.

I also had a long post yesterday on suggested values to stress to counter the conservative message.

We need a link to irc here

I am at school and I cannot access the chat. I think there is a firewall here. I can only access this blog. Where is everyone at? Is everyone over at the chat?

IRC-Real time chat

http://members.cox.net/movingforwardtogether/pjirc/HeavyApplet.html

Well if the Repubs are grooming McCain then JK can certainly run again because he's older than JK. I was worried about JK being seen as too old by '08 with our society's obsession with youth and Clinton and Shrub being in their 50s while in office.

Also, I'm not sure what the big deal is about the campaign shutting down the blog. The campaign is over and those folks needed to move on and find full-time paying gigs. I'm sure all who worked on the campaign are feeling the same way we do but probaly 100 times worse, who says they even wanted to look at the blog, let alone keep it running, after what happened on 11/2? Give them a break, they're human too. An effort is being made by JK and his supporters to keep the online community together so cut the man and the campaign some slack, sheesh.

And last I heard, what's left of the K-E campaign is making sure every vote is being counted in OH by joining in the Ohio Dems recount efforts. JK has also said he will be pushing thru federal election reform in the future - once all the facts are gathered. And despite all the internet chatter, there really hasn't been much to provide a huge A-HA voting fraud moment. Just alot of theory and speculation that JK would look like a fool championing. So please let's chill on the gripes until we know all the facts.

Vana,

People seem to slowly be gathering here.

Also check out the Unofficial Kerry for President Blog. A lot of bloggers have posted comments there since black Tuesday. There's also a lot of post election news and comments there.

http://kerryblog.blogspot.com

I meant at work. I work at a school. I am a sub.

Dr. Ron,

I think we agree in theory--I am seriously interested in the idea of language, particularly in the issue of who gets to name things and claim them.

It's a kind of "enclosure of consciousness" idea.

We have conceded far too much in the interest of being generous. We can still be progressive thinkers, but we cannot concede the higher moral ground--whatever we name it--to people who are such scumbags!

Thanks Ron

Also, can someone tell me why I must continue to put my name and email everytime I post, even though I click the "Remember personal info" box?

Thanks

Welcome back to rehearsal.
Posted by: Karen | November 23, 2004 11:38 AM
------------------------------------------------

Karen, I agree with you, but my point was that as a movement, we can increase the number of choir members (to carry on your metaphor) if the DNC has as its leader a person that most Americans believe represents their ideals. In that sense the moderates who held their nose and voted for Bush will feel more inclined to join our effort.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that, for the most part, America's future rests in our own hands. We have been put on that road to success by Dick Bell's and your commitment to opening this site. For that and many other things I sincerely thank you.

You have posted alot of things there Ron

There are some good stuff there

Vana,

It should keep your personal information, but perhaps some browsers don't work correclty with this. Any chance you have cookies turned off? Most likley a cookie is needed for this to work right.

Thanks Karen

Posted by: Sean Lewis | November 22, 2004 11:33 PM

Welcome Sean glad to see you made it :)

I'm back...
Have been hanging out at the Al Gore Blog and blogforamerica started by Dean.

It is good to see a lot of familiar names.
We lost this one, time to kick some A for the next one.

We need to pick a new DNC head that understands the need to run a 50 state campaign. We can win on issues as the Repub moral slant is immoral.

Am focusing on the 2006 elections.

It is great the Dems are not doing their usual hibernation thing...

I am still banging my political contacts about the issues. Everytime the Repubs pull some POS that can be construed as immoral they hear from me.

Keep the press emails coming.

The Kerry blog had a lot of media sources. Perhaps they could be listed in a resource page?

I'll be interested to see how this group interfaces with the Deaners. For example, just how fundamental a change do you want? That oughta start some talk! Toady to the right/be true to Demo principles/off the mothers now - humans are very expressive primates.

Ron I am not sure if I have cookies turned off, how do I check if I do?

Do I go into my e explore and look?

Hi battlebob,

Dick is going to be adding links today I think. There will be tool kits and other resources as well. We are just beginning here.

Vana--the software we are using was the easy version--the more complicated version will appear soon and then it will behave more like the Kerry blog did.

Moltar,

It is only the Deanies who characterize themselves as being the true believers in change and others as giving in to the right. Dean has done some useful stuff in confronting Bush, but he hardly has the progressive record his followers attribute to him and in the long run I see him as a poor leader for progressive causes. He does have much to contribute, but those who see Dean as the messiah are following a dead end path.

Vana,

Try tools, then internet options.

Actually, give up Explorer, and use Firefox from Mozilla. It's free, faster, and more powerful.

No I my computer accepts cookies

I tried out Firefox, but it had problems handling tables. My web guys tell me it's much less open to attack than IE.

Thanks Ron

Ron,
Dean is actively growing Progressive candidates at local and state levels. This is the only way we can truly take our country back from the right wingnuts. This is how the right took control in the first place!

The 2006 election is most important because the right must be denied a filibuster-proof Congress. The next DNC head must be able to run a national campaign at all levels. The DNC needs to change the Democratic Party from being Republican lite to a real Liberal or Progressive force. Dean has been working on this.
We must never sell out our core values. We must constantly pound the Repugs who do so in the guise of morality.

greetings again all. i would be here a bit more, as i want to be, but i have been busy at work. i will be here more as soon as i can. however.......

some thoughts

1. i believe the K/E blog had to go down as it did, because our posts would have been white hot. to have J/K the official sponsor would have done him no good, moving onward.
we did not plan for a what if, and that was the worst feeling.

2. be glad that over the weeks, tons of us were going from place to place, working to keep the family together. we did not lose touch, and that was grand. kerrygoddess and pcdoc did great!!!

3. we cannot have back the old blog. but the family did not die, we just changed locations. get your stuff in a box and move in. the house is big enough for all of us, and we will just keep adding on rooms as we need em.

4. i was reading upthread about values etc.
and i have the distinct desire to stop using the republican buzzwords and phrases. they make people identify with whats his name. who do you think of when "war on terra" is said? so the speech and speaking patterns should change.

5. we must also be be about the business of finding top notch dems for the mid term elections. and we will NEED the vote reform to help them. remember, the dark side is looking for people to knock off. (remember max cleland)if they can't do it with dirt, they will do in at the voting booth.

6. please remember to be kind to any of the family that are still smarting from the outcome of the election (as we know it to be so far)the hurt goes deep and healing takes different forms. once in a while, there will be that zinger, that just can't be contained.

7. on the chat i have said repeatedly, where there is life there is hope. who is more ALIVE than us? i have also said, we may have lost one battle, not the whole war. keep fighting.

8. i do believe that when the "media" re-selected you know who, it was because they were looking ahead to future ratings. a second term gets more scrutiny. and this one is ripe for scandal. what more could they ask for? reforming them is a real task. because of the 24 hour channels, its always about this hour's top headline. look at how they are scrambling now that there is no campaigning. i hope and pray that as the dirt comes out, it dominates the coming days.

finally, our efforts must be about promoting good, moderate, thinking, candidates. we can help one another in our own states too. our committments to other reforms will not be forgotten. dick wants this blog to focus on vote and media reform. i trust that we can work for many causes at one time.

it might get worse, before it gets better, but don't you want to be there at the end, when we can say we finally took back our country? i wouldn't miss it for the world.

karen---honey you just keep on with the message. we get it. and don't forget that thing in january. your decide and let me know about how you want to do things!!!

I downloaded it

Posted by: oncall | November 23, 2004 10:39 AM

On the Dem Party image: We need the public to realize that we are indeed the "good guys", and that actually we always have been. This won't be easy with constant GOP attacks--unless we can show them to be the liars that they are. I know there are a lot of smart minds addressing this, though. It will take a team effort--again showing the need for unity. If people can't unify behind a common theme, then I say they should get out. I'm referring to those nay-sayers in the party who go on tv to critique our party leaders. Whoever gets the nod for DNC chair has to be able to unify and lead.

This was the quote of the day in today's company newsletter-thought it was appropriate for this site............

QUOTE OF THE DAY – Individual commitment to a group effort -- that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. Vince Lombardi

It is so great to read all of the posts again. I missed everyone. My sister (Cardinalsfan) and I have been patiently waiting for this new blog and the hope it promises.

From the Unofficial Blog (http://kerrylblog.blogspot.com:

Dan Rather is stepping down as anchor of the CBS Evening News in March, 24 years after he took the position. Previously Rather was the White House correspondent, best known for helping to expose Richard Nixon post-Watergate.

Rather has recently been the topic of controversy after both criticizing the right wing attack machine and after apparently being misled to use forged documents in a story on George Bush's National Guard record. The details of the alleged forgery remain under investigation, with the information provided by Rather (beyond the validity of the controversial memos) being verified as accurate. Following this incident he became a target of the right wing's attempts at suppressing free speech and free flow of information.

There is no word yet on his successor as anchor. He will continue working full time at CBS as a correspondent for 60 Minutes and on other assignments. I am hoping that no longer being tied down by the duties of the anchor position will allow him to spend more time on investigative journalism.

(Also see the recent post there on Walter Cronkite's criticism of Bush).

Hi Everybody,

It's good to be back. Thanks Dick and everyone involved for getting this blog going. I'm really fed up with people saying one thing and doing another. The polls say people don't like how Bush is handling things, but they put him in office. I'm not buying that "moral value" crap. I'll tell you this I hold everyone who voted for Bush personally responsible for the state of our nation and the world.

tutterfly wrote...

6. please remember to be kind to any of the family that are still smarting from the outcome of the election (as we know it to be so far)the hurt goes deep and healing takes different forms. once in a while, there will be that zinger, that just can't be contained.

Thanks tutterfly...

I was wondering how to respond to Indy...

love... maybe means you read the post again and try to hear my voice. How did I mean it?

Can adults type about anything, discuss anything in a calm rational manner? Do I need to outline the work I did this last election to anyone, to prove anything? Do I need to surpress my opinions about digging to the depth of serious problems? Can I try to let my liberal democratic spirit shine?

Do I really need to care more about an individual lifetime politician than I care about Americans as a whole? (I loved John Kerry in the late 60's 70's, I told my dem. caucus 'they' would cream him on his record.)

Do I not deserve a viewpoint, a heartfelt sincere question, a few freedoms?

You bet I do, and so do we all. The deeper we dig in ourselves, the more resistance we will encounter, the more folks will misunderstand. The more sensitive the question the bigger the risk.

But now is the time:
The time for risking the toughest questions we can answer for each other.

I do not want to be involved with a group, blog, or maybe even the democratic party (never thought I'd say that!) if I have to "Get with anyone's program!".

I have gone through so much on the political roller-coaster in my life, I am 53, I am sincere when I say I am a true child of the 60's.

That means a revolution of sorts, the deep questions about what is wrong. I always question authority!

How am I coping with this loss? I remember that crook Nixon and looking ahead at those extra 4 years and all the death that came in those years. (Tens of Thousands of deaths just to our men alone.)

Most everyone;

Dropped Out, Turned On, and Tuned In.

Wonder what we will do today?

Sincerely,
Faith O'Neill

posted really at 8:28AM Hawaii time.

Great Faith I am glad you are trying to cope with it...

So please try not to BLAME Kerry or the Campaign, the evidence is mounting against the Neocons every damn day...and it will be resolved in way or another.

On a lighter note...47% of the Brazillian Rainforests have been cut down:

Half of Brazil's Amazon Jungle Occupied-Study
Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:58 AM ET

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=6897940

Indy,
Just saw your earlier post..

Lighten up buddy... some of us are worried about our political future. Stifling comments is what the Repugs do. Concerns should be addressed here else this blog becomes just another cheerleading section. If I remember correctly, Bush was the only cheerleader. We are all united in changing our country. Some of us have different ways of doing it. Some of us see it as a huge almost overwhelming task. Some of us see it as one step at a time. Let those struggling with the task get encouragement from those of us who are not burdened with the size of the task.

Posted by: battlebob | November 23, 2004 01:41 PM

And WHINING INCESSANTLY is what QUITTERS DO!

I will not lighten up!

I will not stop!

I will not allow this to fail because of those who have not the courage nor the fortitude to carry on a rational fight and stop crying that the sky is falling...

I have never know ANY revolution or meaningful change that has ever come in History from just BITCHING ABOUT IT!!!

If some people do not have the stomache for dealing with this fight, then they need to find ways to make themselves feel better locally by getting involved. Not by attacking or being overly negative of the past campaign that is no longer of any significance.

This is a place of sharing ideas for PRESENT AND FUTURE ACTION! Not of blame and following the Rovian wish that we all go away.

Many of the message boards on the internet complain that the former Kerry Blog was so negative they could not stand being there and stopped posting.

We are NOT the Kerry Blog, nor is this forum a place for the DNC to reorganize...it is a place for ALL CONCERNED AMERICANS WHO WANT TO TAKE BACK THEIR COUNTRY!!!

It is not a place for therapy...those requiring therapy are asked to go get it personally from a Mental Healthcare Professional.

No Party affiliation, no whimpering whining, weak delusions of "What if?!?!"

Out with the old failed system and in with the new. Do not expect people here to be sympathetic of crying for the lack of Democratic leadership...there is an over all problem that most do not understand. If this travesty of justice is not corrected NOW you can cry all you want for the Democratic or Republican Parties of yesterday, but it will never happen...the Neocons are NOT Americans!!!

They are fascists!!! Get it?

This is no longer a partisan issue it is an American issue and I for one intend to FIGHT for my freedom and the freedom of ALL Americans!!!

You either belive in the rights of ALL Americans...or you believe in nothing!!!

A Stronger America Begins With You.

This web site demands my email address also.
So....
For those of you worried about entering your personal email addresses, open a free yahoo account and enter it into the email field. Anything you don't like or contains a virus can be deleted before you get it.

mine is still the same one as before and is only used for political stuff.

What is your concern?

Anti-War movement
Women's Rights
Civil Rights
Homeless advocate
Health care advocate
Fiscal responsibility
Open government

All of these topics I'm sure will be closely investigated as the Bush term continues. If we can't stand up for our rights, those who aim to take them away will be successful. The stakes are very high but everyone here knows what they are and I'm sure has the passion to fight for them. So, let us begin to organize!

If you equate questioning with whining then you are as bad as the Bushies.
None of us own the truth or the way.
Those that question usually are the ones who start debates that give us progress.
Sorry pard... you are off base with my way or the highway. Try the other side.
Self-doubts and concerns will happen. Deal with it and try to overcome the concerns.
Being self-righteous is a big fault of Bushco. It must be catching!

Administrator

I assume there will be a list of associated links.
Please add this one. We Arizona Democrats are not dead yet. To 2006 and beyond.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ProgressForAZ

Ok Indy,

Chill out.
You are taking me wrong!

This does not mean you must end the movie,
JUST MY PART IN IT!

Stop patronizing me.
I blame no one!

Sometimes I wonder who you are fighting against.

Faith1,
Happy trails...perhaps you will rejoin the party later?
Good luck and best wishes.

faith1

honey indy has not lost one bit of fire or passion. you should not take all of his passion as a personal rebuke.

we need everyone that wants a different america. we will get there together.

chin up, and stay.

would you really have indy any different, now that a new battle is being engaged?

Oh I was teaching class and that is why I was away for so long

Anti-War movement
Women's Rights
Civil Rights
Homeless advocate
Health care advocate
Fiscal responsibility
Open government

Posted by: Andrew Podolsky | November 23, 2004 02:03 PM

All of them, Andrew

I am a women, with a daughter of draft age, who advocates for anti-war, homeless women, Hawaiians Homeland, sexually-abused children, and have been in the health-care industry my whole life.

----
battlebob, etc...
GEEZ Guys
I said i "question authority"
not that i was "leaving the party"

i guess i know where i am not wanted, at least today. have to go to work anyway.
so Aloha to all my old buddies.

---
posted really at 9:26AM Hawaii time

Posted by: Andrew Podolsky | November 23, 2004 02:03 PM

You may want to add:

Environmental issues unless Bush has ruined it so badly it isn't worth it.

Veterans’ issues as were are creating a whole new group of them.

Assault weapons and cop killer ammo.

Honest elections.

Seperation of Church and State.

All are worthy of separate forums for discussion.

As usual, Bush has given us a lot of campaign issues. We need to take advantage of them.

No I am just speaking from experience of the meltdown I and many others witnessed and fought against during the last week of the campaign.

I am fighting against the unbridled neediness and cynicism that have been thought of as "expressing an opinion" but is no less than a detriment to any action or cause. It is selfish, needy, whining, and lacks the boudaries of rational thinking.

Oh and Andrew...Media Reform, I thought, was at the top of the list, but in order to do that we must gain some control of our government before we can break up the monopolies.

And Bob, I respect your dedication, but there will be no 2006 for the DNC if the current administration remains in power.

So there are my thoughts, and though this is only the third day of operation for this forum, this Monument to American conviction and Constitutional thought, many of us will not waste our time in quelling the fears and doubts of those unable to unplug themselves from the alarmist Neocon Controlled Media, or unable to focus on the importance and urgancy with which we must address the issue of counting all of the votes...

IMHO

Passion?

Fire?

W(h)ine?

Are we dating or changing the country? ;-)

We should all know each other realy well by now... please friends, don't let the one-dimensional pitfalls of posting on a blog hurt your feelings or dampen your spirit... we are the glue that is holding the America we know and love together.

I've used Kumbaya before, and I'm not afraid to use it again!

Much much MUCH love and respect for you all.

America... it's worth fighting for.

Guys,

Leave Faith1 alone. She is great. She just gets emotional like we all do sometime. I was like that and I got emotional and she helped me deal with my stresses and emotions from time to time.

Hey Faith1,

Please stay

Faith...

The Faithster.

Faithasaurus Rex.

The Faithinator.

The Faithmeister General.

Faaaaaaith.

I've used Kumbaya before, and I'm not afraid to use it again!

Much much MUCH love and respect for you all.

America... it's worth fighting for.

Posted by: Marc Trager | November 23, 2004 02:31 PM

Marc forever clever
loved the dating thing!
same as above for me
and thankyou for saying it!
It is worth it.

here's what Hawaii is doing about counting all those votes, Indy...

HAWAII DEMS STEP UP 4 CHANGE
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stepup4change/

and all the other things that keep needing to be done.

bye for now

Indy,
Peace brother..

Marc Trager,
Ah, the voice of sanity still!

Anybody hear from Vokoban?

Like the good cop bad cop Bob...I am usually the Bad cop...I guess I am just meaner than Marc. =]

Is History Repeating Itself?

To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refuted his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighboring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our Nation an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Where is this list from that contains many of the crimes against our principles and laws?

The full text of the Declaration of Independence drafted over 200 years ago and WE the PEOPLE SHALL NOT LET THIS CONTINUE!!!

or scotsforkerry

hi marc and bob

hey bloggers!

I'm still just so pleased at having a blog-home again! =) just a few things that were on my mind today...

1) I was reading up thread and I was relieved at seeing that many of you, as I do, do not want Hillary in 08. Of course, I would vote for her over the repug, but I DONT THINK SHE COULD EVER WIN, so I do not want to see her as the nominee.

2) The words "John Kerry" and "not fighting" just do not go together. I still love Kerry and support him 100% and I know that he is fighting- whether it be in the form of working on the votes in OH and FL, or fighting in the senate and holding bush acountable. John Kerry changed my life. I was not really involved in politics, and I did not fully understand how horrible the bush administration and the neocons were, or how beautiful Democratic priniciples were untill I got involved in his campaign. So he (and all of you who I met on the Kerry blog) DID make a difference -at least in my life- and I know that with the combined efforts of the all great people on this blog, WE can make the same difference in our country.

"Let this be our commitment: Whatever sacrifices must be made will be shared and shared fairly. And let this be our confidence: At the end of our journey and always before us shines that ideal of liberty and justice for all."

3) There may be some that say we have too many differences of oppinion within our party... and within this blog. But I say I love this in contrast to the repug blog, "The Free Republic," where no questions are discussed, and no one dares offer a different course. Some say our greatest weakness is that we allow much diversity within us, but I say that that is our greatest strength. ....and we can show that with this blog if we let all our different ideas bounce off of eachother and use that as a force to make a difference.

just my 2 cents. thanks guys and keep up all the great work you do!

Bush Cabinet Moves Seen as Stifling Dissent
Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:08 PM ET

By Alan Elsner

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush is moving to concentrate power as he begins his second term, placing trusted members of his inner circle in key positions, but some analysts believe he risks stifling healthy debate within his administration.

"It is understandable that this president, like any president, wants his decisions to be taken as writ," said William Galston, a government professor at the University of Maryland, who served as a domestic policy adviser to former President Bill Clinton.

"However this president is running the risk of restricting the range of debate within the administration very seriously," Galston said.

Alarm bells rang in Washington's political circles last week when the new CIA director, Porter Goss, sent a memo to agency employees telling them their job was to "support the administration and its policies."

"As agency employees we do not identify with, support or champion opposition to the administration or its policies," Goss said in the memorandum, which came after several top officers resigned.

Even Republicans criticized that choice of words, saying it was crucial for the CIA to retain its objectivity and ability to "speak truth to power." Democrats, noting that Goss until recently was a highly partisan Republican member of the House of Representatives, saw it as part of a disturbing pattern.

Bush moved swiftly after his Nov. 2 election victory to consolidate power. He installed trusted White House counsel Alberto Gonzales as attorney general and nominated national security adviser Condoleezza Rice as secretary of state, while elevating her deputy, Stephen Hadley, to replace her. Loyalists from the inner circle will also take over as White House counsel and at the Education Department.

Some historians believe that with Republicans securely controlling both houses of Congress, Bush will begin his second term with more power and fewer constraints than any president since Lyndon Johnson in 1964.

DANGER OF HUBRIS

David Gergen, who served as White House adviser to four presidents, said the two dangers facing Bush were hubris and group-think, the tendency for everyone in an organization to adopt the prevailing view.

"By closing down dissent and centralizing power in a few hands, he is acting as if he truly believes that he and his teams have a perfect track record, that they know best and that they don't need any infusion of new heavyweights," Gergen wrote last week in The New York Times.

Full article at the Kerry 2004 Reference Library:
http://kerrylibrary.forumflash.com/index.php?showtopic=235&view=findpost&p=2321

Indy,

Yeah, the Declaration was a cool document. I hear it even has a treasure map on the back. :)

Fundamental Principles of the First Amendment as penned by Thomas Jefferson.

Please link to it...read it...understand it...KNOW IT for this is our best legal defense against the Theocratic mindset.

America was founded to protect ALL Religions and beliefs...not to serve one.

Statute of Religious Freedom
1777
Jefferson first drafted his “Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom” in 1777. Although it was not enacted into law until 1786, it firmly established the principles of religious freedom and the separation of church and state and provided the basis for the First Amendment’s clause on religion.

Statute of Religious Freedom
I. Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy author of our religion, who being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his almighty power to do; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavouring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time; that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves, is sinful and tyrannical; that even the forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor, whose morals he would make his pattern, and whose powers he feels most persuasive to righteousness, and is withdrawing from the ministry those temporary rewards, which proceeding from an approbation of their personal conduct, are an additional incitement to earnest and unremitting labours for the instruction of mankind; that our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry; that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which in common with his fellow-citizens he has a natural right; that it tends only to corrupt the principles of that religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing with a monopoly of worldly honours and emoluments, those who will externally profess and conform to it; that though indeed these are criminal who do not withstand such temptation, yet neither are those innocent who lay the bait in their way; that to suffer the civil magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion, and to restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of their ill tendency, is a dangerous fallacy, which at once destroys all religious liberty, because he being of course judge of the tendenc