A Face on the War

Well the latest faces are the guy who called out Rumsfeld & others like him were interviewed multiple times on NPR.

The papers are full of bad news for Bush .. the war is .. not going so well. The economy will so not support his agenda that even Republicans are dissenting .. this soon after the "triumphant election."

People will only fall for this for so long.
When the public gets used to having a short attention span, the administration has to come up with newer & better stories & without an election going on, their efforts may not reach enough of the people enough of the time.

We need more heroes with fresh faces & great character! Look at what Barack Obama was able to do & this can be done at all levels.

This whole war is very misguided. I live in fear of a draft--I cannot imagine even sending someone who vulunteered to their death--with so little remorse or caring as this admin has done. I cannot even imagine the callousness of this admin in its conduct of war--but to send those to their death who do not want to go--is just an abomination to me.

That said, I cannot believe that the military vote did not go to Kerry 100%. Living in a military town, I cannot believe that the military supports Bush, I cannot believe that Oceanside, where the most casualities have been suffered, welcomed Bush with open arms. It is disheartening to me to see this and I cannot believe that this is happening. This is totally confusing to me.

I do think only Repubs should be drafted--I think Red States should give their kids to the war effort--I think those who put their trust in Bush, should trust him with their kids--I for one, would never trust this cast of characters with my kids. I don't beleive in this war, will never believe in this war and the horrors we hear about, just reinforce my belief that we are in there and need to be out--we need to leave and stop this madness of killing them for the heck of it--we need to be ashamed of ourselves and leave them alone.

In Everett WA I saw Max Clelland speak to a military audience & get a good reception. I also saw John Kerry get a huge military crowd in Everett, WA. There were a few Swifties but they were the same 10 people at 3 appearances in 3 cities.

I know that traditionally many in the military vote Republican - they believe the warhawks will fund projects will give them "jobs". It's not sensible - it's like those who vote against being able to organize their labor, essentially, or give up other rights. Tax cuts for the rich only help the rich & most of us are not rich.

Reagan's theory was that the money would trickle down but it didn't - the rich are too greedy to use the tax breaks as a business stimulus to create jobs. It just doesn't happen.

Off topic,

Did anyone get the MoveOn letter that was sent on Friday? I did not get it, but Ed Shultz was describing it and I was wondering if anyone had a link. I did not see it on their website.

Thanks

This is good news but I am afraid to be happy yet.
This could save my job (I work with kids).

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBC09ZIP2E.html

Election Official Says 561 Ballots Wrongly Rejected in Washington Governor's Race

SEATTLE (AP) - The election director in Seattle's King County said Monday that hundreds of absentee ballots were mistakenly rejected in the heavily Democratic stronghold - enough to swing the close governor's race to Democrat Christine Gregoire.

A statewide hand recount is under way across
Washington state after Republican Dino Rossi came outahead of Gregoire by just 42 votes out of 2.9 million cast.

King County Elections Director Dean Logan said he will ask the county Canvass Board on Wednesday to amend the results of the Nov. 2 election in his county. Agreement is likely; Logan has a seat on the three-person board, and one of the other members is a Democrat.

Logan said election workers mistakenly rejected 561 absentee ballots because they thought signatures on the ballots did not match original voter registration records.

DiAnne --

Good luck! I'm crossing my fingers for both you and Gregoire!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1778&e=1&u=/041213/ids_photos_wl/ra3045613533.jpg
Caption of photo:
"Twenty-three-year-old painter Christopher Savido poses with his painting 'Bush Monkeys,' a portrait of U.S. President George W. Bush (news - web sites), at the Animal gallery on New York City's lower east side. Curator of the show Bucky Turco said that Savido's painting of Bush was removed from an art exhibit at the Chelsea Market in Manhattan over the past weekend after the director of the market protested the content of the painting of Bush, which is made of tiny images of chimpanzees in a marsh-like landscape. REUTERS/Mike Segar"

[Why is it BushCo and his followers can get by with "poking jokes" at everyone who is not in their inner circle, and say "Jeez, it's only a joke; lighten up, will ya?" after shrub or his cohorts say something remarkably nasty (like shrubbie looking for WMD under his desk, etc.... but here someone does an art piece depicting bush using chimp images and it's censored.... Jeez, it's art, it's art with humor using the first kind of image people talked about regarding shrubbie's face, and the image is actually quite good, realistic, even... so, to shrubbie supporters who censor artists: "It's art and it's a joke - some art is actually meant to be funny and ironic, and if you didn't laugh at something intended to be funny, the artist would take offense... lighten up, will ya??? You shrubites take yourselves much too seriously!!!" Amazing how shrubbie and his followers can never laugh at themselves or see the humor in the face of tragedy that shrubbie has brought to this country for four years. Or is it that we're supposed to laugh at their crude humor while they don't get satire??? Gimme a break!!!

Nonny,

It is the double standard they love so well-

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/oukoe_arts_monkeys

Link to the story behind the image....

On topic -- Here is a good commentary on the subject of the Pentagon and propaganda:

Joe Galloway: Truth Be Told, Lies Are Part of Pentagon Strategy

December 9, 2004

WASHINGTON - "The first casualty when war comes is truth." So said Sen. Hiram Johnson, a California Republican, in the year 1917.

There is a struggle inside the Pentagon over where to draw the line in conducting so-called information operations or propaganda in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and who will be involved. On one side are the information warfare activists, led by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Assistant Secretary Douglas Feith. On the other are those who believe that telling lies to the media is wrong and military public affairs officers should never be involved in that.
[SNIP]

http://www.military.com/Opinions/0,,Galloway_120904,00.html

Latina4Justice,

I share your fear of the draft. With a teenage daughter and the idea that women will be included if they do re-institute the draft, I am horrified.

On the subject of the war and other coverups by the Bush administration:

Senate Dems To Investigate Problems In Bush Administration

Senators Harry Reid and Byron Dorgan announced today that Democrats would launch investigative hearings beginning in late January; in reaction to what Reid said was the unwillingness of Republicans to look into problems in the Bush administration.

“There are too many unasked and unanswered questions and the American public deserves better," said Reid at a news conference.

Sen. Byron Dorgan, who heads the Democratic Policy Committee, said that the policy committee will convene for at least one hearing per month, with contract abuse in Iraq being the first focus.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=135

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041213/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_recount_2

Kerry Lawyer Seeks Ohio Ballot Inspection

Mon Dec 13,10:23 AM ET

By MARK WILLIAMS, Associated Press Writer

COLUMBUS, Ohio - Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) is asking county elections officials to allow his witnesses to inspect the 92,000 ballots cast in Ohio in which no vote for president was recorded, a Kerry lawyer said Sunday night.

http://what-we-know.blogspot.com/2004/12/wheels...…

stranger and stranger

If the link above from latina doesn't work, try this:

http://what-we-know.blogspot.com/2004/12/wheels-are-coming-off-in-ohio.html

MA Electors Claim Election Marred By Fraud... Republicans Claim "Sour Grapes" ...

Members of the Massachusetts Electoral College vented their frustration today with the election results. Their contention is that the election was "marred by voter intimidation and fraud".

In response to this Republicans claimed that the Dem's were having a hard time coming to terms with Kerry's loss and it was a case of "Sour Grapes".

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=136

Were Detainees Guinea Pigs at Guantanamo?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121404H.shtml

Senate GOP Set to End Filibuster on Judges
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121404D.shtml

[BTW, I haven't heard about any plan of Dems to filibuster - but then, I also haven't been watching mainstream media news at all. Is this whole thing to block filibusters a preemptive strike by repukes so they don't have to go through any delays to get their neocon judges or just any little old thing shrubbie thinks he wants??? Do nasties to the Dems before the Dems have a chance to act responsibly and on behalf of the American people??? How deeply are we into the fascist dictatorship I've been observing the US slipping into???]

Rumsfeld Revives Covert Propaganda, Critics Charge
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121404A.shtml

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer | Rumsfeld's Fig Leaf Falling
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121404F.shtml

Posted by: latina4justice | December 14, 2004 01:23 AM

I know it's that favorite double standard they love so well. They don't see the violence in sports as anything serious, either, and I do. I especially see the violence when sports figures (professional or college) who have been arrested for drugs or spousal or girlfriend abuse, or rape, or drunk driving, and that's the first story of precedence on local in-state TV... and then the top story hawked on local in-state news is that the jock who is paid gazillions is let off scott free or with a fine, and he still gets hailed as a "hero" - but why he's consider such is beyond my reckoning. There have been a lot of stories like that in recent years involving the professional teams in this state. One group of teenage boys on a football team northeast of me, including the coach's son, were recently caught shoplifting by the security cameras at a store (only one or two of the boys on the team did not participate in this shoplifting stuff), and some in the community still wanted them to be able to play in some championship series at the high school level because it was the first time the town had had a team that played at that level.... but they were expelled, per school rules, because of the shoplifting. If they get off and still play, that's the first lesson that a jock will get special privileges and he can consider himself above the law after that (like shrubbie, eh?).... I know not all jocks are like that, but too many of them are. Matter of perspective, and community "moral values" I guess....

Christian Conservatives Press Issues in Statehouses
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121404E.shtml

Delay sought in Ohio electoral vote

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/ohio.electoralcollege.ap/index.html

While members of the Ohio delegation to the Electoral College voted in the state Senate chamber, about 10 protesters walked a sidewalk nearby. State police said the group was denied a permit to demonstrate on Statehouse grounds.

********************************************

Gee, 10 whole protestors.

I think the new National Anthem should be "Roll Over, Beethoven"... with an emphasis on the Rolling Over.

10 protestors. Way to go, Ohio.

Keep picking those morally upstanding, high social value nominees, Dumbya. I mean, it's just Homeland Security, no big deal, right??? (But I'll just bet Rush is ALL for him!)

Hip! Hip! Ocrites!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/13/kerik.problems.ap/index.html

-snip-

The past few days have seen news reports about a rash of possible personal and professional improprieties on the part of the former New York City police commissioner, including big stock-option windfalls, connections with people suspected of doing business with the mob, and, on Monday, allegations he had simultaneous extramarital affairs with two women.

THE SINCLAIR PROPAGANDA MACHINE
Evan Derkacz, AlterNet
Owned by Bush-backers, an emboldened Sinclair Broadcasting is pushing forward with its right-wing agenda. It's time to push back.
http://alternetheadlines.c.topica.com/maacX8YabcwrMbmSBCmbaeQBp9/

GARY WEBB, R.I.P.
Robert Parry, Consortium News
The real tragedy of journalist Webb‚s historic gift ˆ and of his life cut short ˆ is that because of the major news media‚s cowardice, a dark chapter of theReagan-Bush era remains largely unknown to the American people.
http://alternetheadlines.c.topica.com/maacX8YabcwrPbmSBCmbaeQBp9/

PBS' FUTURE POST-MOYERS
Jeffrey Chester, AlterNet
As PBS lobbies for a billion-dollar trust fund, it's time to challenge the status quo.
http://alternetheadlines.c.topica.com/maacX8YabcwMkbmSBCmbaeQBp9/

FROM DYLAN TO THE BLACKLIST
Mike Miliard, Boston Phoenix
Al Aronowitz says the ‚60s wouldn‚t have been the
same without him. Now the ŒBlacklisted Journalist‚ who's found an outlet on the Internet
looks back from his cluttered New Jersey apartment.
http://alternetheadlines.c.topica.com/maacX8YabcwrRbmSBCmbaeQBp9/

KANSAS FOOLED, AGAIN
Robert L. Borosage, TomPaine.com
Immediately after the election, the Republican-led Congress convened in Washington, dropped their culture war, and passed a gigantic spending bill loaded with corporate pork.
http://alternetheadlines.c.topica.com/maacX8YabcwrUbmSBCmbaeQBp9/

20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA

1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold
http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html

2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/private_companyhtml
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/042804Landes/042804landes.html

4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/28/sunday/main632436.shtml
http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886

5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator in a surprise upset, with votes counted by ES&S machines.
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2004/03/03_200.html
http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting/031004Fitrakis/031004fitrakis.html

6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics> Committee.
http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News
http://www.blackboxvoting.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=26&file=article&sid=26
http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx
http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php

7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.
http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm
http://theindependent.com/stories/052700/new_hagel27.html

8. Kenneth Blackwell co-chaired George Bush's Ohio election campaign. As Ohio secretary of state, he left no stone unturned to supress the democratic vote.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/113004Y.shtml#1
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/894
http://67.15.90.110/article.pl?sid=04/10/29/1414219

9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041020evotestates/pfindex.html

10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm

11. Exit polls are usually excellent predictors of election results. Reputable analyses could not find and explanation of the discrepancy between exit polls and results of the 2004 presidential election.
http://ucdata.berkeley.edu/
http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/11/Unexplained_exit_poll_discrep_v00l.pdf
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/international/europe/23ukraine.html?ex=112245800
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/international/europe/23ukraine.html?ex=112245800&ei=1&en=3a3c24b7e64fe49&ei=1&en=3a3c24b7e64fe49

12. A Diebold subsidiary employed 5 convicted felons as senior managers and developers. These people helped write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml

13. Jeff Dean, senior programmer on Diebold's central compiler code, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.
http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

14. Jeff Dean was served jail time for planting back doors in his client's accounting software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.

http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf

15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.

http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/26/loc_elexoh.html

16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it!
See the movie here with the chimp

http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov
http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190

17. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.

http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm
http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload
http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=950&name=News&file=article&sid=950
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm

18. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.

http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,0801,97614,00.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/tens_of_thousands.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.htmlhttp://uscountvotes.org/
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.htmlhttp:/uscountvotes.org/

19. The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.
http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/7628725.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10544-2004Oct29.html

20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.
http://www.yuricareport.com/ElectionAftermath04/ThreeResearchStudiesBushIsOut.htm
http://www.computerworld.com/governmenttopics/government/policy/story/0,10801,97614,00.html
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/tens_of_thousands.html
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html
http://uscountvotes.org/
Based on a list compiled by Angry Girl
http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html

We've all seen those yellow ribbon magnets with "Support Our Troops" on cars. I certainly don't disagree with that sentiment, but I support them -- as many of you do -- by wanting them brought home now. I want to ask these people with their car magnets -- and those who voted for Bush because of his handling of the war(s) -- "How do you believe we should support the troops?" followed by "Are you willing to go -- or send your children/spouse/family member -- to Iraq to fight this war?" I would guess that there are very few who would answer, "Yes."

And this is what perplexes me: how can you support a war that you're not willing to fight yourself? It's OK to be at war as long as it doesn't affect you or your family?

Maybe I'm too naive or maybe just plain clueless...

Retired Army colonel, 70, sent to Afghanistan

By R. NORMAN MOODY
Gannett News Service

Dr. John Caulfield thought it had to be a mistake when the Army asked him to return to active duty. After all, he's 70 years old and had already retired - twice. He left the Army in 1980 and private practice two years ago.

"My first reaction was disbelief," Caulfield said. "It never occurred to me that they would call a 70-year-old."
-----------------------SNIP-------------------

http://www.marionstar.com/news/stories/20041211/localnews/1731211.html

A Giant Falls

GARY WEBB - PULITZER PRIZE WINNER, AUTHOR OF DARK ALLIANCE CIA-DRUG SERIES DEAD OF REPORTED SUICIDE

Press Accounts Fail to Mention His Vindication by CIA Inspector General Reports and Congressional Investigations
by Michael C. Ruppert

December 13, 2004 1400 PDT (FTW) - Gary Webb, 49, the Pulitzer Prize winning reporter from the San Jose Mercury News made America hold its breath in 1996 when he showed us proof of direct CIA involvement in drug trafficking. For a few months many of us had hope.
---------------------SNIP---------------------

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/121304_gary_webb.shtml

Posted by: madame defarge | December 14, 2004 10:05 AM

Do not confuse supporting the troops with supporting the war. I have a support our troops ribbon on both of my vehicles and are totally against everything this administration has done and probably will do.

We can and must support the troops while being totally opposed to the war and the administration.

Dumping on the troops is what we did in Vietnam. It is wrong then and it is wrong now.
The people in Vietnam didn’t want us there, the troops didn’t want to be there and the American people didn’t want them there. Sound familiar?

Exactly how many girlfirends did Bernard Kirek have? And how about Azia Huthinson his so called replacement didn't he have a ton of marital problems that forced him out of Congress. Yea the election is over but why is Bush getting a free ride from his right wing Christian fundamentalist gang regarding his party's great family values. Isn't it time to start driving a wedge through the Republican base. Why are we not going after these marital problems as examples of phony family values? When are we going to start attacking each and every example of so called Republican family values? We all know that Kirek didn't drop out b/c of nanny gate. He would have been subject to massive extortion plots b/c of his crooked business dealings with Tazer and his multitude of girlfriends. Why is Bush once again getting a free ride? Are we that gutless. We need to start showing spine immediately before the veto procedure is illiminated in the Senate Judiciary and the RNC stacks the Supreme Court. This is a values issue that we need to take up immediately. I would like to see the candidates for Chairman of the DNC take up this Values Debate. In my mind that should be the test as to which candidate has the spine to take on that voice for the DNC. Might as well start testing our horses now.

Posted by: Ira | December 14, 2004 11:13 AM

Expanding on what you just said…

The entire Dem leadership and those that want to be leaders are silent on every issue.
There are enormous changes to hit the Repubs on social and moral issues.
Dem leadership is too busy deciding why we lost the last election and not fighting Bush.
Fight to count the votes but keep the heat on the Repubs over other issues.
Make the Repubs tell us:
- How they intend to pay off the deficit?
- Will current and future social security benefits be reduced?
- How and when do Repubs intend to get us out of Iraq?
- Are Repubs planning to go into Iran?
- What plans are in place to battle the horrible problems in Africa?
- How do they intend to foster job creation?
- We must discuss the tax cuts and the effect on the economy.
- Bang all media outlets daily until they listen and respond.

This is just a few items off the top-of-my-head. There are many others. The main thing is to have a sustained attack against Bushco. I am hearing from my Repub friends and they are already planning their next assault. We must do the same now. Whether we like it or not the next campaign cycle has already started.

Stop the stinking free pass being given to Bush. One place to attack is the seam between the wealthy and lower class Repubs. Neither has anything in common with the other and what helps the wealthy will often hurt the lower class. Since the Repubs are dominated by the wealthy, we must go after the less wealthy Repubs with social and moral issues.

oh ira,

you must know by now, that there is a special division of christian fundamentalist
family values that absolves all of those 'boys will be boys' antics displayed by the chosen ones.

us filthy minded liberals have a lot of nerve assuming that s-e-x was involved, when the truth is probably that the hotel get togethers were just prayer and bible study.

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 11:05 AM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Battlebob, I saw somebody with a yellow magnetic sticker on their car. Of course it said "Support the Troops". But the clever thing they did was write with indelible marker on the blank part of the ribbon, "NOT THE WAR", so that those words were more visible than the script writing on the yellow ribbon. Good idea, huh?

Posted by: oncall | December 14, 2004 12:07 PM

My Mom did almost the same thing-she wrote "bring 'em home" on her yellow sticker.

Also, FYI if you have one of those magnetic ribbons on your vechile...........

Magnetic Bumper Stickers Can Damage Paint
Patriotic Decals Need Regular Cleaning

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/automotive/3992205/detail.html

DiAnne:

Kudos to you, sister. What ever did happen to Mark in Iowa? I miss that caustic focus now and then. As for the war, well, can somebody please remind me, what was the point of occupying Iraq again? What was the thinking there?

Chuck in Baku

oncall, nancyjane,
Thanks a lot for the comments.
My truck has so little paint on it, the magnetic sticker actually adds to the value of the vehicle.

I move the metal sticker around on our car and so far no damage has been done. I glued a pad on it so the paint doesn't get marred.

Gees, I know a lot of people my age (58) in Iraq now. The military needs to add such things as walkers, Metamucil, denture cleaner, and pace maker batteries to the list of supplies.
Bullets, heck no, they need depends.

Did anybody catch Stormin' Norman Schwarskopf (sp) on Hardball yesterday. He condemned Rumy for war actions. Remember, a month or so ago, Norman was absolutely giddy about supporting Bush's candidacy and campaigned for him in Tampa. IMHO, since he partly responsible for what is going on in Iraq. If it weren’t for support from people like him, Bush wouldn't be so free to wage war against the world.

Sorry for the fractured English... I am working as I type

And this goes out to Irina from Chuck in Baku regarding the utility of the internet and blogging as per posts over the last couple threads:

Yes, in a sense this is an echo chamber. But let us not forget the degree to which the echo chamber of our opponents has succeeded! The internet, by definition, is not a monolithic thing. Having said that, it does make it possible to find direct source material in a way unimaginable some five or ten years ago. Independently verifiable source material becomes available even to some dial-upper in Azerbaijan. Blogs in that sense have utility insofar as they maintain integrity -- call it an outside audit for now. If I find a blog that posts links to source documents (which, if I wanted to verify, I could go down to a municipal library and do so), will some day cut the legs out from under those in the mainstream media that filter and package information (for a buck or for a favor, in too many instances) -- it makes it possible to cut out the middle man, as it were. This is a thing in the making. As folks begin to savvy to that, and as folks begin to have access to the internet, a platform begins to develop upon which a political movement can be built. Folks can be pointed to source documents to judge for themselves.

Chuck in Baku

battlebob:

my wife's comment this morning to me was that if Dems don't start fighting these battles now, why be a Democrat? I couln't agree with you more. We lost, I am sad very sad about that and have no problem with the fight going on in Ohio, but like you said, while we are busy fighting the last battle the RNC is making plans for 2006. We have a governor's race in Virginia next November 11 months away, yet as much as I beg, we want to blog about November and Ohio.
Republicans are giving us a very short window regarding Bush cabinet appointments and there lack of family values. We are 'our voices'. Bush is getting ready to silence the filibuster rule and stack the Supreme Court. Where are our voices. Bush is prepared to saddle Social Security with 2-3 trillion billion dollars in debt, where are 'our' voices. I care about the lower class but I am scared to death that the middle class is being trampled down to become lower class in turn this country into another Mexico. Where are 'our' voices Bob?

Posted by: madame defarge | December 14, 2004 10:05 AM

Madame:

Actually, I am one who bought a magnet too! And it's proudly next to my kerry/edwards sticker as well as my "redefeat Bush" sticker. I consider my anti-war activities to be the MOST supportive way to support the troops.

I support our troops because I want them brought HOME! SAFE, WHOLE, and ALIVE. However, I have no respect for anyone who voted for Bush and carries those magnets.

Also, I wonder what company produced those ribbons. Are they profitting from the war? Are they a republican owned business? Does the Bush family own stock in the business?

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 11:05 AM

Hi Battlebob

My peace activist group has a 20 foot banner that says "Support Our Troops, Bring Them Home!" See the photos of the banner on this thread about our recent participation in the annual local Christmas Parade - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=116

We simply can not have people in this country treating our Vet's the way they were treated when they came home from Vietnam!

Posted by: DiAnne | December 14, 2004 09:48 AM

Wow, Dianne!

Thanks for organizing all those facts. Did you send them to congress?

Maybe it's officially time to create a bumper sticker for the stolen President elect!

It could read: "not selected this time! Just stolen! Because I'm a true believer in the 10 commandments."

Well, dear all, as it seems t be a slowish moment, thought I'd throw this out there, more-or-less on topic:

What are the goals of our current foreign policy in the Middle East? For what principles or values are we killng and being killed? Now that we administer Iraq, what is our moral obligation to Iraq? What about the immediate and not so immediate neighbors of Iraq? What exactly are we doing there? Having occupied that country, do we have a moral obligation to the region? If so, what is it?

Chuck in Baku (sort of studying Stoicism)

Pamela,

Wow...
That is wonderful. You folks are really showing the rest of us how to get it done.
The banner at night by itself with only those carrying it visible made me think of my own antiwar activities during the Vietnam war and now. It is a very moving picture.

thank you.

tutterfly:

you are right that Republicans just want to ignore their own moral failures but ask yourself why American voters said in Nov. that Bush had moral values and Dems have none. Tune into CSPAN and listen to the vitriol from the other side about how Dems are godless sinners and shouldn't be trusted with the reins of govt. I am sorry to say that this insanity will continue until we stand up and say enough is enough. I am a voice in the wildnerness preaching that we need a Moral Meter somewhere that will pont out the Values Failures of people like Kirek, Hutchinson and even Guliani having an affair while still married. Why in the world are we as Dems totally silent about this Values /Religious issue. Does the church approve of Republican infidelities and disappove of Dems position on abortion? Why are our religious as well as political leaders not stepping up to the plate, now?

The story about Pat Tilman.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1294831/posts

Posted by: irafighting bush in texas | December 14, 2004 12:51 PM

We all should send out emails to all media outlets at least once a day with questions and comments. We proved they will respond during the last campaign if enough of us do it.

Email your comngresspeople.

I have been doing this daily since the election.

The media outlets were posted by Indy earlier. They are still on the Kerry blog.

Maybe the monitors can create a mediapage with links on it?

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 01:04 PM

I really believe we need to be out there, visibly in the streets showing our dissent. A member of our group is a member of the local Chamber of Commerce and she got us into the parade.

The Chamber of Commerce may be more typically Republican, but they are a bi-partisan organization. Democrats are missing out on the opportunity to speak up and participate in local events if they don't join groups like the Chamber of Commerce.

As far as I am concerned a peace activist group should be in every parade in this country to counter the presence of military in parades. However, that said, in particpating in local parades, peace activist groups (or any Dem activist group with a cause, like gay rights or the environmentmust) do so in a respectful way.

We all had a grand time in the parade, by the way, and have already been invited to participate in next year's parade!

Chuck in Baku here to Ira:

Yes, we could play that game with them till kingdom come. And as things stand today, I think we will lose that game because they hold all the aces. If we focus on personalities and their failures, it plays right into their mainstream media. If we choose to ignore that pointless argument and fight for principles, we stand a good chance, IMHO. We must document their lies and deceptions; more importantly, we have to put forth a prescritpive vision of our values. We have to win this one vote at a time, and on our terms. So first we have to agree to what we agee on, IMHO.

Hope that made sense,

Chuck in Baku

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 01:14 PM

BattleBob

We have a Media Action Center with links to contact Congress and the Media on LightUpTheDarkness.org - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/media.htm

Posted by: Pamela | December 14, 2004 01:24 PM

Great ideas..
thank you

Pamela,
I bookmarked your site. Couldn't this site add a link for it as well?
I have a similar list from before and Indy posted a series of lists on an earlier blog topic.

Good Night All! Keep the Faith

Chuck in Baku (GMT+4, Boston+9, PDX+12)

Exactly Chazman our leaders needs to start the clarion call that Dems have values and excluding Clinton fidelity to our spouses and children and care for our elderly parents would be a good point. But no one will listen to our values until we start questioning our opponet's. . That goes for the Guiliani and the Bakers and the Barrs and the Livingstons and Newt.

This might sound hoaky but Dems could call it our celebration of Marriage and then contrast it with our opponent's high divorce rate. Then we could show how good jobs, living wages, and real health care are the keys to keeping marriages together and then show how Republican's failures with jobs healthcare, prescription drugs and their ideas to destroy Social Security destroy bonds of Marriage. That is my idea for a positive Dem Values/Morality plan for America. Securing Marriages might also counter this vitriol about gay marriages and show that marriage is important to Dems.We dramatically lost the married women vote and the single women vote is less reliable.

Posted by: Chazman | December 14, 2004 01:24 PM

I think we should pick an issue such as the war and relate everything on the effect the war has on all of us morally, socially and economically.
I posted this in one of yesterdays topic.

I think we win by emphasizing who we are; emphasizing who the Repubs really are in moral and social terms. Every political decision we make should be referenced by the war. How it affects communities by siphoning off older soldiers; how it affects the lives and families of all soldiers; the financial burdens; the cost in world leadership and respect; the cost in making us a more likely target of terrorism; the ruination of families by death, disability and fear. Do the same with every issue - education, environment, jobs, etc. Relate each issue to how it affects us socially, morally and economically. We obviously need solutions for each but they must be humanized; not a bunch of reports that are tossed on the table and never discussed again. The Repubs scare everyone into submission. We must offer something different.
For things like Social Security reform, we must hound the media to discuss the winners and losers and how this idea is another chance for BushCo to treat the US Treasury like a personal piggy bank for investment people.

Another thing is we must stop this desire to compromise with the Repubs. They really don't need us all that much so we shouldn't roll over everytime the Repub grim reaper says boo.
We must state our position clearly and forcefully so that everyone understands how absurd the Repubs are!

We must make everyone understand the damage the Repubs are doingto ur Republic!

GRRRR

doingto ur Republic! = doing to our Republic!

ira,

it is my thought that democrats have the good taste not to toot their own religious horns. its still isn't WRONG to allow your actions to define your morality.

its just that god has been dragged out of church and had his name slapped on all kinds of people who most assuredly have no intention of being godly.

right now, godly is defined by three things
pro-life
anti-gay
anti-stem cell

assuming god has an opinion on those things, i think it is also safe to assume that there would also be an opinion about other 'moral issues' now, a smart democrat isn't going to keep trying to talk their issues. they've been talked to death. instead, i'd like to see hordes of democrats tsk-tsking the sad lack of morality on all the other issues.

first and foremost, i doubt that the 'morality/family value' people are real impressed with what is being presented to them. however, they have mastered the art of taking the bad with the good. they keep their darlings at the forefront.

the 'keep repeating it until its true sound byte lack of attention span' world we now live in requires absolute simplicity. smart democrats needs to adopt a few key phrases about the shameless lack of morality in our current government.

smart democrats need a superlative ad writer that will make use of words that allow us to be the 'branders' and not the 'brandees'

the thing about being as far down as we are, is that everyone is watching to see what we do next, no? will those silly democrats beat themselves up some more, or will they surprise the country with a real WOW of a message?

this is WOW time. we need a WOW message, and a few special darlings that deliver our WOW message with all the face time we can get. it is time for democrats to stop seeking forgivenss for being right.

simply said, we go out and claim that we are right, strong, smart, honest, kind, fair, and so cool that you can't resist us.

EVERYONE WANTS TO BE A DEMOCRAT.

We are being ruled by a minority, extremist administration. During the election it was clear that there is a sizeable minority within the Repuublican party that is unhappy with Bush.

How is that possible?
Is the failure of Democrats a sign of weak leaders in the party, or is it something more fundamental in the political system?
What if there were no electoral college and and winner-take-all state contests. Would not a center - left coalition of parties (centrists democrats, greens, progressives) dominate?
If you believe that is the case, then how can the party be structured to win inspite of the electoral college and winner take all?
It seems all the DNC does is cycle between the centrists and the progressives as if one of those is the base.
Does the party have one base, or several bases?
If several, is a coherent message even possible?
If the center - left has a majority (which I bellieve it does) then we must energize all the bases. The party neeeds to find a new organizational structure that does that. Its clear the old one doesn't.

one other thing......

the republicans have also been good on making everything an issue of faith. just believe, and the nice republicans will do all the thinking for you.

its a really simple way to live, just have faith. it appeals to people. not just super religious right wing fanatics.

so, another message has to be that their faith is sadly misplaced, and that its time to move on to a place where faith is also coupled with respect.

HAVE FAITH! THE DEMOCRATS WILL FIX THIS MESS!!!

For anyone in the Chicago area...

Take time this holiday season for Peace on Earth. End the War in Iraq. Join the Christmas Vigil for Peace & Procession down Michigan Avenue in Chicago on Wednesday, December 22, 2004. Gather at 5:30 p.m. at St. James Cathedral Courtyard at 65 E. Huron. Dress warm and bring a candle or flashlight.

For more information, call: United for Peace: Faithful Citizenship at the AFSC offices at 312-427-2533.

Sponsored by: American Friends Service Committee, Chicago Metropolitan Association, United Church of Christ, Chicago Unitarian Universalists for Social Justice (UUSJ), Community Renewal Society, Council of Islamic Organizations of Greater
Chicago, 8th Day Center, Episcopal Diocese of Chicago, Episcopal Peace Fellowship, Leadership Conference of Women Religious, Fellowship of Reconciliation (FOR) Muslim Community Center, United Methodist Church, Northern Illinois Conference, Pax Cristi, Presbytery of Chicago
Co-sponsors include: North Suburban Peace Initiative (NSPI), Chicagoans Against War and Injustice (CAWI), Voices in the Wilderness, Not in Our Name, Coalition for a Counter Inaugural

War is Not the Path to Peace

tutterfly:

that is why I suggested that it might be a shock, WOW moment as you like to say for Dems to come out and say the Divorce Rate in America is too high. Is it b/c of Gay Marriages? No it is b/c American families are struggling to find jobs, pay for healthcare and pay their bills. We need to start appealing to the $25,000- $50,000 Americans that we have lost b/c of cultural issue.We need to reconnect since they have told us loud and clearly that Cuture trumps jobs, income and healthcare security. Republicans answer will be to Abolish Gay Marriages, Abolish No Fault Divorce, but I think the way into the Gay Rights Bashers, AntiAbortion culture would be for Dems to show we have a Better Plan to keep marriages and families together. That way we can show that we too are for Reducing abortions,(not illimintaing them) and our way back into the Church Issue that as Dems we are for strenthing Marriage and Families. Strong marriages and familes = lesss abortions. That was why Bill Clinton's message of ending welfare as we know it connected so resoundedly and we need a similar type message now to start connect again. We have got to get our hands dirty in that issue and that is the only thought I have had as to how to approach it.

I am strongly against the War, but until we have a real draft, and our young people are out in the streets like we were in the 70s forget about it. That strategy didn't work for Kerry and there is less chance of it working now. I can just see the Republican strategists licking their chops and calling us isolationists. That is why Kerry wisely refused to step into the argument of lets pull our troops out. I predict that Iraq will eventually be a debacle probably after hell breaks lose after the fraudulent election and Iraq will end up in a civil war chaos. I think we need to step back and start referring to Iraq as the LBJ war of the 21st century. Call me callous, I just don't care. As long as 20 year olds refuse to vote they will end up in wars that devistate this country. My personal experiences with youth voters in Colorado tell me there are other larger fish to fry and they should no longer be our focus, as others have suggested regarding the war. Namely married voters and the elderly who are about to be crushed by radical changes to Medicare and Social Security. But that is just my feelings that others here don't seem to agree with.

bob,

think about it--our BASE, if that is what you want to call it, is sub-categorized issue by issue. we accept this, as though somehow it all melds and we all find a unified message once every four years.

meanwhile, on the surface, republicans are just republicans. oh, once in a while you hear about a moderate republican, but they dissavow the label as soon as someone tries to pin it on them.

by allowing ourselves to be sub-categorized we have been able to appeal to divergent groups, but the down side is that each of our 'sub-species' is also dragged out to be feared, hated, and voted against at election time.

we keep fighting to claim the center, and the republicans simply wave their magic wands, and off we are pushed to the radical left. (a very scary place, the radical left) meanwhile, the republicans can sell the far right as the land of wonderful peace and unity.

its been over four years of being told that there is no center, there is red and there is blue. red is good. blue is bad.

repeat after me. red is good, blue is bad.

have a drink of kool aid.

the republicans have made the center look like a black hole. you can't go there if you love america. in the post 9-11 world the center is now closed. go red and live. go blue and go to hell.

i heard it all thru the campaign. the republican message is one that says 'you' are better than some group. the democrats say 'we' are all equal. facts is facts, there are people who love being better than, and it gripes them to be equal to.

if you are a rich person, you are better than the poor. if you are a white person you are better than a minority. if you are a minority you are better than a smaller minority. if you are a church person you are better than those godless people. if you are straight, you are better than gays.

meanwhile, democrats preach inclusion, equality, civil rights. hmmmmm. that means that if i love my guns, i gotta love the anti-gun nuts? love them tree huggers? those folks who are going to make clones?

message out. if democrats are going to make any headway, it is about time for the sub-species to get a clue about position, get voted in and then start worrying about varying agendas.

Ira,
The draft issue was locked in for the Repubs during the last campaign. That option was removed when Bush said there would not be a draft. Bush could try to institute a draft but Congress has to approve. You say he owns Congress? If the Repubs were to approve a draft they could kiss having a majority after 2006. So you will only see the back-door draft until there is sufficient outcry from the constituents of Repub congress people. That is another reason why the Iraq elections in January are so important. Regardless of the state of Iraq, I sense another “Mission Accomplished” cry and an attempt to leave the mess we made and leave. There are not enough troops or money to put Iraq back together again regardless of how many old codgers they ship out or how big the deficit becomes.
Or maybe, Bush will keep the troops there, forget about Iraq and head into Iran. You never know what this group of right wingnuts will do next.

I'm working on a piece about FDR and his "communist" social security and New Deal reforms. But, in response to:

"Does the party have one base, or several bases? If several, is a coherent message even possible?"

Roosevelt's New Deal Coalition was an alliance of labor, small farmers, Jews, Catholics and blacks in urban areas, intellectuals, city bosses, and liberals and radicals who had nowhere else to go. Put 1924 Klanbake in a search engine and be prepared for your hair to stand on end.

Seems to me the Democratic Party has always been loosely knit coalition against wealthy conservative industrial and corporate interests; that and some progressive Teddy Roosevelt types.

What we're facing today really doesn't seem to be anything new. I just hope the Republicans don't have to drive us into a depression AGAIN, before the voters are willing to go Democratic.

The youngest age range of voters voted in record numbers. However so did voters in other age ranges so as an overall percentage of the voting population, their numbers didn't seem to change all that much. Don't diss them. My kids both voted and so did all of their friends and most were for Kerry. And there were more than a few under 18 who worked very hard for the Kerry campaign.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/11/07/MNG5F9NFFP1.DTL

~snip~
"Fifty-two percent of the under-30 population turned out to vote Tuesday, up from 42 percent in 2000."

http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~417~2558673,00.html
~snip~
"If preliminary numbers are correct, young voters went to the polls this year in the greatest numbers since 1972 when the voting age was lowered to 18. In battleground states, turnout of voters under age 30 hit an estimated 64 percent, with the majority preferring Sen. John Kerry over incumbent President George Bush by 54 percent to 44 percent nationwide. "

Give them the credit that's due.

battlebob:

personally I don't think Bush wants to get bogged down in Iraq b/c that will distract from his right wing agenda to undo all of Roosvelt and LBJ's social programs. He will walk that fine line of cutting and running and calling Iraq a victory a war he has won. You are right about the Mission Accomplished banner he will certainly do it again just be less cavalier about it. i am not proposing a Draft I know that Repubs are not going to commit political harry kary that is something we as Dems do. What i was suggesting that this war is being predominetly fought by 18-25 year olds many of my clients. They are either gung ho and think they are invinsible or believe that this is a poor person's war like we saw in Ferenheit 911 and they don't care if other brothers and sisters die. My memories from Vietnam tell me that that war might not have ended if we didn't have a draft that reached students on college campuses. That is why we can't rely on our soldiers, predominetly our youth to protest this war. And I know that many here have college age kids who they care about who do participate in the political process, but since I saw so many in Nov. that don't care its hard for me to get too worked up about the war.Sorry Susan.

honestly, if you look at all the things done so far, and the things that bushco proposes to do, can't you see a top heavy mess that just need a few good hard pushes to knock it all down?

PUSH PEOPLE!!! PUSH!!!

HELP.....

off any topic. if it is indeed true that joe lieberman is being considered as homeland securtiy director, am i the only fool that thinks the minute he gets in he gets ignored? and is there a viable democrat who would be voted into his senate seat, or are the republicans already rubbing their hands together at the thought of another moral value republican stepping in?

geez, if they ask lieberman and he says no, the thugs can say they reached across the table and got their hand slapped away.

does it make sense to take the job or not?

tutterfly:

as my momma says I was born at night but not last night. Of course Repubs would love Lieberman to resign his seat and get Repubs one vote closer to 60 votes a filibutser number. Are we that stupid? And exactly what do Dems get out of that? Squat.

Posted by: bob-in-co | December 14, 2004 01:58 PM
"What if there were no electoral college and and winner-take-all state contests. Would not a center - left coalition of parties (centrists democrats, greens, progressives) dominate?
If you believe that is the case, then how can the party be structured to win inspite of the electoral college and winner take all?
It seems all the DNC does is cycle between the centrists and the progressives as if one of those is the base.
Does the party have one base, or several bases?
If several, is a coherent message even possible? "

A few comments, off the top of my head.
It is obvious that many of the oddities of the American political system are caused by the two-party system. Whether it is good or bad, I am not sure (gut feeling: bad; rational mind: maybe not so bad, as long as the difference between the two is real and not just cosmetic, helps focus the message, and forces people to make choices). But the point is that as long as there are only two viable alternatives, the kind of fragmentation that you refer to is unavoidable. Moreover, aiming at a higher coherence and consistency might lead to a dilution of what the essence of a democratic party that stands in opposition to the republicans should be. Let's face it, the way I can figure it out at least, as a newcomer, the people here ARE most probably leaning much more to the left (whatever that exactly means, oversimplification) than most people that vote democratic. Should we change? Should they? I do not think so, as long as we understand that the differences are less important than the similarities. Unless of course you adopt the kind of "who is not with us is against us" attitude that the Republicans seem to use so effectively. Rightly or wrongly, I (used to?) respect McCain, and during the campaign I was cringing inside at what a misplaced sense of loyalty (??) made him do and say. Not to mention that as an ex-New Yorker who lived in downtown Manhattan for quite a few years, I even used to appreciate Giuliani right after 9/11, but that's a whole different story...

I also remember the comments in the media prior to 11/2 (Black Tuesday?) about the "anything but Bush" reaction being counted as a negative comment on Kerry. I like Kerry a lot, got to like him more and more as 11/2 drew closer, but in a sense I also was in the ABB camp, I would have voted for almost anybody just not to have this national emabarssment re-elected (well, kind of...). In my view, this also relates to a type of diversity that should be embraced rather than trying to find ways to avoid it.

On the other hand, the issue of "reframing" that was discussed earlier, the "tricks of the trade" that can be effective in giving more "umph" to the message, yes, it is important, and I hope to find the time to read the book (Lakoff? something with elephants , excuse the ignorance :-) that I saw mentioned all over the place.

If Shrub really wants a Dem as Homeland Security Chief why didn't he bring up the name Bob Gramm. Perhaps b/c he is retired.

Roosevelt put together a coalition largely based on economics and was largely centrist and lafet. Today, we have environmentalists, pro-choice, GLBT, anti-war, which often has served as much to break up the Roosevelt coalition as to enhance it. On a superficial level enviros work against workers in the logging industry, feminism works against families, anti-ware against the workers in munitions factories. I'm not saying that is true down deep, but superficially it seems true enough for the Republicans to tear apart Roosevelt's coalition. So today its much harder to bind together such a diverse group within a party that is still centrally organized like it was in Roosevelt's time. Independents outnumber democrats or republicans individually. Many have common interests with groups within the Dems, but don't want to be a part of the Democratic machine, often seen as corrupt as Republicans. Find an orginizational structure that jetisions the machine image and caters to these groups individually and you have a winning coalition.

i am of the mind that lieberman should say no. i guess i should have clarified that.

is lieberman of the mind that he should say no?

i can't see him being dazzled by the offer, but i can see the thugs making it a big deal about him saying no.

he can say he is not fooled by the tactic, he can say he is not impressed at being second choice after a pig like kerik. he can say anything, i just hope he says no.

Posted by: bob-in-co | December 14, 2004 01:58 PM
Posted by: tutterfly | December 14, 2004 02:03 PM

Great posts…

I question some of the alliances Dems have with groups such as labor unions. Do we sacrifice our ideals to get their vote? Per a CSPAN discussion yesterday, more union members voted for Bush in Ohio then ever before. What’s with that? The Repubs are working to dissolve unions. Of course we need unions – but they need us as much or more.

All Dems are for jobs and healthcare and we must make sure everyone knows how intertwined they are. The CEO of Ford says he spends more on healthcare then on steel. He also said, he cannot compete with countries that have universal health care because health care costs add over $1,000 per car. This becomes an issue that labor would support and no tailoring of the message is necessary. We must show how immoral it is for anyone not to have medical insurance because of increased suffering by the family.

I think we have to state our position based on Dem moral, social and economic values and not tailor the message or fudge it trying to get support from one group or another. When we do that, we come off as muddled and not decisive. It was amazing to me how many people voted against their economic self-interests. I know the Dem party is a nest of many groups and alliances. But when we tailor the message for one, others get shorted. I am thinking if we state the message on our values, the groups and alliances will support us even more because it is the same for everyone.

Others have said – including me - on other forums…
We should fight everything. An opposition party fights. An opposition party does not negotiate. Anyone who tries to negotiate right now should not be welcomed. You don’t negotiate from a position of weakness, and we’re in a position of weakness. So, the first thing is to fight. There’s no reason to aid them in their quest.
The next thing is to provide bold solutions that may lose – that may lose badly. Let’s say that the first $80,000 of everyone’s income should be tax-free. Let’s offer to pay a mother and father to stay at home and raise their child. Let them fight against motherhood. They’re cloaking themselves in motherhood, but they don’t really care about mothers. Keep the pressure on the Repubs.

We must attack the Repubs immediately when they attack us or rather attack them first. One point that came out yesterday is the campaign was often slow in responding to Repub attacks. Kerry was attacked as soon as the nomination was secure because the Repubs needed to define him before the Dem attack was unified. I think the low point was not responding to the smear-vet ads. In politics as in war, a threat must never be ignored.

The public never and still doesn’t understand Kerry’s position against the Iraq war and the 87 B budget. We obviously do and can support it but Joe Sixpack thinks Kerry voted for the war and against funding for the troops. Nuances and subtleties don’t work in political campaigns.

It wasn’t very difficult to see where the Repub attacks were coming from. We need people who can analyze what the Repub strategy is and nullify it before the attack.

We need to keep the message sharp and focused on moral, social and economic values and show how the Repubs are ignoring and are against those values. We get into trouble when we have a separate message for each group.

I can't understand why the Dems want to help Bush out. He is in the dumpster over HS and we should let him stay there. If JoeL takes the bait, it is going to be tough for Dems to critisize the insecurity of our country. Let Bush put another right wingnut in there.

SinclairAction.com
by kos

The good folks over at Media Matters, backed by MoveOn, Working Assets and several other liberal heavy hitters, is taking on Sinclair again:

A coalition of liberal political groups is launching a nationwide protest against Sinclair Broadcast Group, charging that the 62-station TV broadcaster, which was also the target of intense criticism during the presidential campaign, is misusing public airwaves with partisan news programming.
The groups, led by Media Matters for America, today will announce a campaign to pressure Sinclair's advertisers with letters. The groups, however, are stopping short of demanding an advertiser boycott.

The campaign is one of the first broad attempts to reenergize liberal political activists in the wake of the Democrats' electoral defeat in November.

SinclairAction.com

see also:

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/c.biJRJ8OVF/b.8473/

battlebob,

thank you. i think i was trying to say what you are saying, but you said it better.

i am trying to remember something that i read a while back. it had to do with selling republican white bread versus democrat seven grain.

everyone knows white bread. its plain, blah, bland, no surprises. but that seven grain, well, what if you don't like oats? you can like six of the grains, but not buy, because of that one lousy grain that you don't.

the thing about selling democrat seven grain is convincing the buyer that the taste is so overwhelmingly good and well blended that you will never notice that one little flavor that is not among your favorites.

plus, you have to make sure that the white bread buyers have realized that white bread isn't really good tasting or good for you.

bread and presidents, what a world!!!

I think Lieberman, if given the opportunity, should not only say no. He should lay into those miserable excuses for "leaders". He should make clear how badly our country has been screwed by bushco. At the same time, he can use the opportunity to highlight the differences between Demorcrats and Republicans. That will get huge press. On this point I agree with Battlebob.
Just as Colin Powell was thought to be a voice of moderation in Bush's cabinet, he was marginalized. The same would happen to Lieberman. Personally, I don't see bushco offering it to Lieberman.

Also, if he should be so weak as to accept the position-if offered, it is worth noting that a Republican governor could fill Liebermans's vacant senate seat.

Before Roosevelt, the Democrats lost for 12 straight years, at least. What kind of a coalition do you suppose Klansmen and city liberals made? Not much of one. There were opposing "values" then, much like now. It wasn't until the Depression really put the economy front and center that people voted against Republican corporate interest. Truman's & Kennedy's races were tight. Carter won out of disgust with Nixon. Clinton won on a horrible economy, with help from Ross Perot. If we don't understand where we've been, we're never going to figure out where to go. Democrats have put together a hodge podge coalition for years and really only seem to win when the country wants to reject the status quo.

It seems to me it's because Americans would like to believe laissez fare works, they like the idea of striking it rich. So they vote Republican until the country is run into the dirt. Then they revolt. It seems like a pattern over the last 100 years and has been made even more difficult to combat because the Republican noise machine is so loud these days. Unless the Democratic Party embrace some sort of Equitable Economic Policy theory, I think we'll remain a hodge podge coalition.

oncall:

personally if Lieberman should be willing to give the Repubs potentially another Senate seat I will be finished with our party.It is such a shameful act by the great Uniter, that it would certainly brand Dems as the stupidist party in this century. I pray that won't happen but knowing Lieberman I wouldn't put it past him. I know many more Dems that feel the same as me.

I may be wrong but loosely tied organizations may be a thing of the past.
The former methodology was to give something to everybody – even if the somethings clashed. I don’t think it is possible anymore because we are so transparent. The old back-room deals meant the details never came out. The party heads determined in secret what was going to happen. There are no secrets anymore. So if deals with labor unions are made, minority non-union voters may get angry. Then every group needs concessions from other groups. Then the message is lost, as it has no focus.
So at the risk of being called a kool-aid drinker, I think we need to do the opposite. What needs do we want to supply? How do we want to accomplish it? What do we offer the collective American people? Our platform must make it easy for everyone to support because it is in the publics’ economic, social and moral interests to do so. Some Dems may not be happy? Are they going to be happy with the Repubs?
We cannot be all things to all people if we have a constantly changing message. That sounds illogical but when we concede for one group, another group gets pushed away.

Posted by: Ira | December 14, 2004 04:19 PM

I agree with you. If the Dems are so dumb to fall for this trick then they are too dumb to win at anything.

My thoughts on Nov 3 is if you can't beat one of the worst presidents in history (well maybe one of the bottom five worst), then who can you beat?

battlebob,

the only thing that bugs me, gives me the willies, is some dem enclave somewhere thinking that having old joe on the 'inside' will give them some kind of weapon to work with. it would be absolute folly for HS to be a dem job right now. if there is a terror attack 35 seconds after he gets sworn in, guess whose fault it would be?

battlebob:

sounds like you are really hurting about the election. Sorry about that, we are in the same boat. We all have our theories about why we lost mine is that we constantly underestimated the depths the RNC and Bush would go to win. They seem to have the win at any cost prespective. Whenever any of us take that approach we are called sellouts to the cause and that has got to stop. unfortunately there is no cause if there is no power and until we become cunning and yes ruthless we will be in the wilderness. You mentioned that we should not negotiate with the Repubs. Why in the world would you think Bush/DeLay etc intend to negotiate with us; hell they won't even communicate with Dems. Newt and Delay have learned the ruthless power game that unfortunately we need to adopt. The take no prisoners approach/aside from Delay's criminal behavior, his Redistricting plot was ugly and ruthless. The problem, it works. We need to acquire a hard edge. Its that hard, stubborn and even obnixious edge that Bush has that seems to be attractive to voters. I don't like it nor do I respect it, but unfortunately if we want to have input into our futures that's what voters want.

call me crazy, but in a second term, isn't it a little harder to blame 'the last guy'
??????????????????????????

i'm thinking that the boo boo's, oopsies, uh-ohs, and oh my's belong to nefarious george and company.

Monday, December 13, 2004

VIDEO ONLINE OF CLINT CURTIS TESTIMONY!
We've yet to review it, but video is now available online from portions of Clint Curtis' sworn testimony before U.S. House Judiciary Members in Ohio.

The testimony was reported as "jaw-dropping" and "stunning" this afternoon in this earlier BRAD BLOG exclusive!

Look for this in the middle of the page HERE:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/

To Watch Video Testimony of Mr. Curtis.

Above Video is testimony of the programmer who was allegedly asked to WRITE the vote fraud software.

Ira:
I understand both what you mean and the frustration, and what I am going to say is almost a cliche, but what exactly do you win if you become too much like your adversary?

A Face on the War:

(received from Robert, in Minneapolis)

I just attended a powerful press conference. It was at the state
capital. A woman whose husband is in Iraq near Fallujah said she had to buy radios for her husband so the soldiers could
communicate with each other. She showed us photos of a WWII tank with armor and then two photos of her husband on a tank: the first one was not armored and the second one showed a makeshift armor shield the troops had manufactuered.

Supporting the troops is more than yellow ribbons.

I took some neat photos, including one of Jesse Ventura who attended as
a veteran who is angered and concerned.

---- I'll post a link to the photos as soon as I have one. DiAnne

Irina:

The right to write policies and legislation that effects my life, my family's and my country's lives, plain and simple. That is what you win. Yes it is that important.

Christians Hoping to Boost Profile at Christmas:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4673011,00.html

Hungry, Homeless Figures Increase in US:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4673138,00.html

Read both articles in succession & think about the hypocrisy.

tutter,
your point is obviously correct, but bushco has a slimy way of weaseling out of any responsibility. this project is dedicated to holding the media accountable. if we can get the media to do their job, then bushco will melt. people are beholden to what they hear and see via the mass media. we all know our frustrations regarding msm, and that is why this blog's success is critical.

Posted by: DiAnne | December 14, 2004 09:21 AM
Posted by: DiAnne | December 14, 2004 09:48 AM

Great Links, DiAnne..... Thank you!!!

It's always mystified me that Diebold can make the most sophisticated banking machines that faithfully spit out deposit and withdrawal slips without any glitches, but they can't seem to use the same technology to make a voting machine that spits out a piece of paper that says who one voted for...??? Mind-boggling....

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0917-05.htm
PBS Panders to Right With New Programming
Published Sept. 17, 2004
This last link indicates PBS is going neocon, but it has already with new neocon "news" programs added (that I refuse to watch - there's only so much I can take when it comes to keeping track of the lies the Dark Side puts out as "news").

I can't tell you how much I'm going to miss Moyers. He is/was the only journalist I've been able to depend on for facts, whether I like the facts or not. That, IMHO, is what "news" and good journalism is all about.... reporting facts, whether the listener/viewer likes the facts or not.... Telling the audience what they need to know, not what they want to know, and certainly not being a propaganda mouthpiece for BushCo nowadays....

I wish Moyers was running for president. He'd have my vote!!! (And, yes, I know he's an ordained minister... but he's never made his religion an "issue" and he's certainly never forced his religious views down my throat!!! He is an example of a "good Christian" in my book and deserves my respect because of that. He abides by the First Amendment. It's the fumdamentalist kool-aid christians I take issue with....)

ira,
I am still angry over the election, which means we must continue attacking Bush on issues important to us. I am angry at our party leaders who seem to be asleep at the wheel. I guess being PO’s is my natural state of being. The way out is to change the reason for being PO’d and not just stew about it. That is what I am doing.

The Repubs have perfected their message that their base eats up. Not only that, but groups that were tied to Dems are breaking away. Both Latino and the Black communities saw erosion of Dem support. Union people moved to the Repugs. Demographics and migration of people to the southwest are changing precinct makeup east of the Mississippi and in the Southwest. The court allows abominations like the Texas redistricting that cost us seats.

We need to change the way we operate by making the message more direct, more personal, more biting.
Unless the filibuster rule is changed, Dems can block anything Bush wants done in the Senate. We obviously must choose our spot or run the risk of being called obstructionist. If he wants something, he must work with the Dems to get it. We should not be so accommodating.

Since Bush is a lameduck president, more and more moderates Repubs who are not lameducks may be siding with Dems instead of siding with the right wingnuts. That is why 2006 is so important. If we get hammered again, the moderate Repubs will be too timid to support us.

Bush is in a tough spot with the Iraq war, the economy as layoffs, oil prices and interest rates are going up. We always have attack points. We just don’t have a national voice to give them. Our two leaders are Reid and Pelosi. How come they aren’t pounding Bush daily on the troops not being properly equipped. Bush puts it on a tee and we whiff it.

They both want Tim Roemer as next head of the DNC per CNN. He was on the 911 commission and he comes from a red state. Are that enough qualifications?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/14/dnc.chair/index.html

Battlebob, I agree with you about the loosely tied organizations. It's all been labeled as pandering to special interests anyway. That's why I think the answer is in presenting a new economic policy that combats the old laissez faire, invisible hand, classic economic theory.

Equitable Economic Policy with a fair access to livelihood, education, and resources; full participation in the political and cultural life of the community; and self-determination in meeting fundamental needs.

It's not equitable when foreign countries can provide cheap labor and ignore environmental regulation. It's also not equitable when our businesses are asked to compete with countries that have national health care. When we do business with a country like China, that executed 5000 people last year and has forced abortions, it doesn't say much for our traditional American values. Most all of our values can be forwarded under an umbrella of "Equitable Economic Policy". It just takes a little give from the DLC corporates and a little willingless to reframe the purpose of our goals in the platform from the left.

Chuck in Baku (sort of studying Stoicism)
Posted by: Chazman | December 14, 2004 12:59 PM

Book titles and authors regarding stoicism??? Thanks...!

Sorry; I know it's off topic, but I'm curious about too many philosophies....

Sandy,
I agree with you wholeheartedly.

There are groups that want to push the economic policy message aside and make the message more about social policy.

I always wonder why not both as they are different faces of the same message?

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 03:37 PM

Labor unions get their power by providing their members with something they couldn't get on their own. Unions were able to get their members health plans by a combination of negotiation and Democratic legislation that reduced the costs of benefits packages to employers. If there is universal health care, then the value of being a member of a union is diminished. So my guess is that union's have been luke warm about universal health plans as opposed to plans tied to the work place. In a way unions downfall has been due to their success. Greater affluence among their members has lessened the appeal of New Deal Democtrats.
All this may change, unions may rise again, if repubs really undo all the safety nets.

Tim Roemer is from Colorado I believe and a winner like Mayor Webb. He is an honorable decent and tough guy that represented a swing state. Is that enough, no.
I agree we need to be in their faces,direct personal and biting and yes win at any cost. Why, lets see our jobs, healthcare, civil rights are at stake to say the least.
We have no choice but to fight for the filibuster rule as long and as far as we can. It has been around over 100 years and is pretty much the only tool that a minority party has. You are right Bob, we must stand up and fight every single day for what is important to us. I disagree with those that say it will turn off voters. I think just the opposite. The public is getting used to Dems just rolling over and won't vote for our candidates if they are convinced that that is the kind of people we have in the party. Bob you are getting it. Now if we can convince those that control the party.

It seems to me it's because Americans would like to believe laissez fare works, they like the idea of striking it rich. So they vote Republican until the country is run into the dirt. Then they revolt. It seems like a pattern over the last 100 years and has been made even more difficult to combat because the Republican noise machine is so loud these days. Unless the Democratic Party embrace some sort of Equitable Economic Policy theory, I think we'll remain a hodge podge coalition.

Posted by: Sandy | December 14, 2004 04:16 PM

Remember that most Americans still believe in the "American Dream" and the "Land of Opportunity." While class mobility is possible, it is far less possible in today's environment than in, say, the Kennedy-Johnson or the Clinton years. Regressive taxation only goes so far in helping class mobility.

And rich people are rewarded because they supposedly got their riches through hard work. These days riches are more likely to be inherited - or gained through luck - rather than earned! The Germans had a propaganda: "Hard work will set you free." I think we are falling into the same propaganda machine right now, as we fall ever deeper into near-slavery conditions to fatten the rich and give up all the progress we have made over the past century.

And we (especially the unions) need to push for more generous vacation policies so that we can take the time to travel the world and see how the rest of the world lives. Americans are shamefully insular people! In fact I might still be a Repug myself if it weren't for the eye-opening visits to Asia and Europe.

And a hodge-podge coalition? We definitely are. Unfortunately. As I keep saying, our environmentalists will absolutely hate our immigrants, who in turn will never accept our gays. We need to get a powerful overriding message that can bring such disparate groups together, or we are pretty much finished as a political party.

Posted by: bob-in-co | December 14, 2004 05:28 PM

American unions are weak because they are greedy like the corporations they fight. Just compare the histories of European and American labor movements, and the emphasis is completely different.

And guess who got more for the average Joe - the European labor unions.

Posted by: bob-in-co | December 14, 2004 05:28 PM

As long as there are right-to-work laws and scab replacement laws, unions are doomed.
My father was a Teamster for 42 years and a union steward for half that time. We dined nightly over the need for workers rights and representation. The key was collective bargaining and this was how the great middle class was built. Those rights were essentially taken away.

I know non-union plants that tell their workers that if a union is brought in, the plant leaves the area.
I agree with you that unions became to successful. This success also led to corruption and waste. The pendulum swung too far for unions and now it has swung too far for management. For many years, it is immoral for workers to make a living wage but moral for executives to be overcompensated. As long as the public demands cheap goods and is willing to buy them labor wages and employment will be declining.
I really liked Kerry’s plan to reward companies that employ workers and build new facilities alla Clinton. Bush’s plan is buy stocks in companies that moved your job offshore until your unemployment compensation expires. And shop at Walmart to buy those products from China that used to be made here.

Is Bush The AntiChrist

http://www.seattleweekly.com/features/0449/041208_news_antichrist.php

Christians Hoping to Boost Profile at Christmas:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4673011,00.html
Posted by: DiAnne | December 14, 2004 04:57 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~

The ending paragraphs are Christians advocating boycotting Jewish-owned stores.... which is one step away from legally discriminating against Jews like the neocons want to do with that stupid ban on gay marriage, and banning abortion... Do I hear echoes of WWII Germany under Hitler here in America???

(1) There is no contemporary documentary evidence that Rebbe Yeshua ever existed. Period!!! (Iesus Christos is Greek translation of earlier writing, which means roughly "Joshua, the Anointed" and in Latin the name is Jesus Christ.) Birth and marriage and death records were not kept during the Roman occupation of what is now called Israel. During what was supposed to be the lifetime of Rebbe Yeshua, a Jewish man, thousands of people were crucified by Rome.... If he had been a man of ANY importance when he was alive, the Romans, good record-keepers for their day, would have mentioned it, and his name, specifically. No records exist that mention any rabble rouser who started a minor sect of Judaism for that period of time, which came to later be known as Christianity. No records mention Christianity during the time Rebbe Yeshua is supposed to have lived.

(2) The entire basis for Christianity is oral tradition written down AFTER the fact, and the earliest manuscript can only be dated to the second century ACE.

(3) IF he ever existed, no one knows the exact date of birth of Rebbe Yeshua, but tax season has traditionally been in the spring, not at the winter solstice....

(4) Many, many, many religions that pre-date Christianity held festivals at the Winter Solstice. It was the time of the shortest day of the year, it was a time of renewal that started the cycle of days becoming longer. The fact is, Christmas was probably adopted from the Roman Saturnalia festivals held at the Winter Solstice.... Certainly, early popes wrote instructions to their priests to build churches where the pagans (people who lived in the country and not cities) were used to going to worship ancient goddesses, and Mary became important in Catholocism because of the fact that the pagans were used to worshipping goddesses, not gods, and pagans were resisting conversion to a patriarchal religion. The trinity of goddesses included Maiden, Mother, Crone.... and in a patriarchal religion became Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. To gain converts to Christianity, the early popes also instructed priests to incorporate pagan forms of worship into Christian ritual, and the goddesses and gods of pagans were made saints.... It was all a ploy to gain converts to Christianity.

(5) If modern Christians knew their history, none of this would be an "issue" - but the bible-and-pulpit-thumping Christian preachers who have never studied history have passed their ignorance down to modern Christians, generation after generation, using their own "divine interpretation" of the New Testament. Patently wrong assumptions and interpretations have been made and brainwashed into congregations, and virtually all of them make much ado about nothing.... based on ignorance and superstition.... During the Dark Ages popes wrote that the masses should be kept uneducated because ignorant people were easier to control (i.e. brainwash - ignorant people are the most gullible - which is why early Catholocism fought so hard against educating the masses and the common people - knowledge leads to questions...).

Ignorance breeds fear of the unknown, and xenophobia creates an atmosphere of paranoid hysteria (group-think, mob-think) where idiots pass laws to legally discriminate against minority populations.....

Sorry for the rant. I realize many of the rest of you have likely studied early history....

I was thinking today that a remake of Inherit the Wind (dramatization of the "Scopes Monkey Trial" ) would be very popular today. The Christian Right would surely protest it and thereby garner free publicity for a movie which has the potential to be hugely successful. Others would see it and realize that the message of the story is applicable to today. I hope a Hollywood studio or producer or Broadway producer will be brave enough to even think about it.

Ok two things - a question and a statement.

What sites do you guys regularly check to keep up with recent developments in the Ohio recount situation? I have multiple ones that I check regularly, Free Press, Michael Moore, Vote Cobb, Olbermann, Ohio Dems, Case Ohio, etc...any others that you can recommend that have regular updates and good information?

I appreciate any assistance you can provide.

And:

I am suffering from crushing withdrawal from not seeing my beloved John Kerry on T.V. all the time, campaigning, stumping, windsurfing, and just being his bad, bad self. It wounds me. I propose we start our own television station, WJFK - "K-T.V." - all Kerry all the time. Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week. Kerry talking, Kerry preparing food - "Cooking with Kerry", Kerry speaking foreign languages with English subtitles for those of us who are exotic language challenged, Kerry walking his dog, Kerry bicycling, Kerry sleeping, Kerry rebuilding an engine, Kerry flying a kite, Kerry cleaning the rain gutters on his house, -- whatever.

It's just not fair. He became a tall, lovely, stately, majestic permanent fixture in all our homes and lives for so long, and now he's SO less available. Taking away our daily access is like yanking the needle out of a junkie's arm mid-shoot.

They could do a reality show - like the Osbournes - "The Kerry's."

People would learn to love him, like they did the Osbournes and Nick and Jessica, and he WILL become President. Make him a beloved icon, like Schwarzenegger, and HE WINS.

Even non-supporters will tune in, out of morbid curiosity, (Americans will watch ANYTHING even if they are afraid of it) and he will grow on them. People will tune in regularly to see his latest shenanigans and get to know him little by little - even a lot of Repugs will have to say "he's a pretty kick-ass guy." He has a pet German Shepherd. people LOVE that!! Then, he runs again, and people now know and love him. They can't play the whole "we don't know what he stands for" card.

They'll know alright.

I'm only half joking.

We should totally do it.

This just came in via the WA DFA state contacts list. It is not endorsed by DFA.

Rep. John Conyers feels he needs a million e-mails to compel the House Judiciary Committee to hold hearings about the 2004 election. I appeal to [you to] ... spread this message among your list of liberal friends and associates. Go here:

http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/contact.html

and tell the Judiciary Committee you want hearings on Ohio!

Sample letter:

To the House Judiciary Committee:
I am writing to urge the House Judiciary Committee to hold hearings as soon as possible on the irregularities of the 2004 election. I need not remind the Judiciary Committee members that the Unites States is a beacon of democracy for the rest of the world. If we truly wish to remain the embodiment of democratic values, then we must treat the right of every citizen to vote and for their vote to count as sacred.
Ample evidence has arisen that this right was violated or undermined for many Americans in the 2004 election. I strongly believe that holding hearings toinvestigate and resolve these irregularities would be an act of tremendous patriotism on the part of Congress, and would serve as a declaration that we are the world's greatest democracy not only in word, but in deed.

Hey Guys,

We are cutting the Blog over to the new server, so if it goes dwn for a couple of minutes, that's why.

See you soon from a more robust location!

Re. the American dream & "striking it rich" - I knew a guy who was originally Republican & Bush has really slowed down his dreams (sailing around the world).

He is really entrepreneurial & ambitious & has now seen the light - he is following his dream - but in Canada.

Kerry is King

I have the same problem.

DdiAnne,
I sent my message to the judiciary committee.
I added:
Free and honest elections are a moral value. Those that prevent them will be dealt with in the next election.

The judical server was really slow. Hopefully a lot of us are hitting it.

After the vote and tried to plant false info into Ohio recount!

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=490

By John Byrne Raw Story Editor

Creepy/dangerous if true.

Posted by: NonnyO | December 14, 2004 06:20 PM

Nonny:

Thanks. Actually, many people have learned history and even learned religion, but the problem is that people "pick and chose" what aspects of both they decide to put their faith into.

But you can't "argue" facts with biblical people because they will always find a passage that desputes the passage you refered to!

Dianne -

It is a problem isn't it?

Sort of a slow burn.

:-)

I strongly urge everyone to contact republicans too! We want our democrat leaders to hang tough, then that means we have to call them and call the republican's too.

The problem is that the republican's think the 'right' wing is going to win the elections for them. If they can not keep the moderates happy too, then they can kiss 2006 goodbye too.

Supreme Court Turns Down Democrats -

more in the saga of Washington State & Christine Gregoire vs Dino Rossi

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/203700_govruling14ww.html

Here is another survey

http://69.9.171.129/contest.html

Please go to this site where you can easily e-mail all your congressman regarding the recount and protesting this in congress. It is very easy.
You can also add your personal message. Such as
Please help. My vote is my voice. If Ohio does not count the votes properly or suppresses the vote, than none of our votes count for president. Our nation is getting used to voter fraud

KIK, I'm so with you. I check yahoo-photos all the time for a glimpse. We were short-changed before, and now we're in isolation. We really like him, are reassured by him, so there, you GOP echo chamber and foolish Dem hangers on jabbering the same wrong, deconstructing stuff. Yes, the dog, all I heard about was that bird.

My group wants to change its name, and I'm so not ready!

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 05:48 PM

I once lived in a right-to-work state - Arizona. Horrible. Not only are wages depressed whether you're blue-collar or white-collar, but if you ARE lucky enough to be in a union (i.e. Tucson bus drivers), everyone else hates you because you have bargaining power that they don't have.

And Bush tried and failed to make Texas a right-to-work state.

KiK, DiAnne, Marjorie,

This one’s for you (thanks to NativeTexan4Kerry):

http://www.sparkgirls.com/advent/

Want to meet a real hero? All he wanted was to have his vote counted. He returned from campaigning for John Kerry in Iowa & discovered that his absentee vote had not been counted.

Now his desire to have his vote fairly counted could determine our Gubernatorial race. Bush/Cheney consider this a high stakes outcome but so do I.

Anyone who likes to write please thank this guy!

Posted by: Bob Evans | December 14, 2004 08:54 PM

Bob

That is so cool! I love it...

(response to your email on it's way soon)

Here is the website of the hero:

http://www.metrokc.gov/mkcc/members/d4/index.htm

Bob Evans -

Thank you for the calendar!!

Kerry is King
Marjorie G is one of us.

Thank you, Bob, I tried that once before and all I got was the White House, over and over. Techno-challenged that I am, I didn't click on the Kerry link. What a treat.

Are we talking, CFK?

KiK,
Here is another site about the Ohio recount. Our recount in Richland County begins tomorrow. My husband will be an observer.I think our county was handled fairly though, but certainly believe that Kerry won the state.

http://ohio-recount.info/phpbb2/index.php

I want a big blow out story on all the suppression and registration tricks, state by state, if for no other reason than taking away the winner, loser, and reasons that self-perpetuate guesses as fact. We know we need a bigger and better mouse trap, organization, control of our language, less infighting and more gumption. I just want to take away the spin of the country leaning right when they are just misinformed, in fear, disenfranchised, or not counted.

To fix an election is not moral, and I think many Bush voters would agree.

Ok, seriously folks, I was talking to a trusted friend of mine who is incredibly politicaly savvy, and we were discussing how Ahhh-nold won the Governorship of California based on being a household name, and little else. CA, a blue state, voted for this man by a landslide, depite him having NO political experience at all.

Why? Popularity. No, he is not a brilliant actor, by any stretch, but we are all familiar with him and have been amused by his films. (Admit it.)

No one cared at election time if he had scandal in his past. We've all seen him naked! There was no mystery.

We began discussing the merit (for lack of a better term) of reality shows. They are lame, but people watch them. En masse. Ozzy Osbourne, once hailed as a drugged out satanic rocker appreciated only by a subculture of tattooed teens, is now beloved by grandmothers, housewives, and even got a shout out from Shrubbie himself.

We discussed whether or not we'd be willing to watch a reality show featuring "The Bush's" even though we are definitely NOT political supporters. We agreed we totally would, just to see what crazy shenanigans they'd get into. Especially those zany twins! Would seeing the "more human" side of them make them more likeable to everyone, even staunch Dems? Could be. Especially if they made people laugh.

The we agreed that "The Kerrys" might be a real hit. All Kerry supporters would likely tune in - that's a good 50 million plus. Curious Repugs would likely too, whether they like him or not. After seeing him at home "doing his thing" some might actually warm up to him.

One thing's for certain, he'd become a household name for something other than the Swiftboat smears. Now that the election is "over," people would be more likely to just watch the show for fun, feeling less threatened by him, since he is not actively campaigning for the Presidency.

We agreed that such a venture would do him nothing but good.

Seriously, WHO thought Donald Trump of all people would catch on like he did?

With the proper marketing - with well placed footage of Kerry "being a regular guy" at home with his family and dog, with some silly foibles and goofy tomfoolery, family bonding with his kids, peppered with some "father daughter chats" about dating, and ill-fated fishing trips gone awry with the Heinz boys, and some silly crazy adventures with other politicians, he'd be a shoo-in for election later on. Funny, campy actors get elected. I know he's a busy Senator, but trump and Ozzy are busy too.

BUSY ROLLING IN THE SUCCESS OF THEIR SHOWS.

Kerry is definitely a more compelling figure than either of them, though I DO like Ozzy.

It'd be worth a try. And I think it could only make him more popular. And electable.

I would watch faithfully.

Marjorie G
Exactly! CFK!! & thanks for the wonderful souvenir of the great Kerry/Gephart campaign!!

I was horrified to see religious cover stories on US News & World Report, Newsweek & Time. My son says it's because it's Christmas but I was all paranoid that the theocracy had started.

Then I read that despite the slim margin (if at all) by which the Republicans "won" - they are acting as though it's a "mandate" for the merger of Church & state - it's not cool to say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" or stores can be boycotted.

Well I'm happy to celebrate with our lighting of a giant statue of Lenin & tonight I'm listening to "A John Waters Christmas" on NPR (Terri Gross "Fresh Air" story).

I agree with what Andree of Paris recommended - ridicule them, as the French did with the xenophobe & nationalist Le Pen!!

Would LOVE to go book shopping with the Kerrys, or travelling in Europe.

Just received:

Bush's Votergate Mandate:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/12/120091.php

I really don't know how to evaluate all this but I don't mind getting it all out in the open.

Is "Happy Holidays" an insult now?

These neocons really need to get over themselves.

Posted by: SkinnyLawyer | December 14, 2004 08:42 PM

I live in Phoenix, Arizona as you said ugh which is as right-to-work state as you can get. They don't come any redder. The leadership never figured out the cost of poor education caused by tax starved schools.
I just got the word that once again my job is in jeopardy and I am cruising looking to move elsewhere.
I work for a DoD contractor and the contracts are just not being awarded. If they are, they are going elsewhere.

DiAnne, what do we make of Madsen (not aleways credible?), Curtis and, perhaps, Rove? The bolder the story, the more we believe. See Swiftboats.

We sure want to belive.

horrible typos, sorry

KIK-
I'm not sure a reality show featuring the Kerry's would be the way to go but to your larger point, I do agree, that the real reason JK didn't win was that there were some swing voters who were scared to hand over the keys to our country's national security to an unknown. JK was well known in DC circles but wasn't well known to the rest of America so he had to spend a great deal of time introducing himself and gain and again as opposed to presenting his message. If he could have spent more time on messaging, it would maybe have turned out differently. At least in '08 both parties will more than likely have relative unknowns vying for CIC, so the playing field will be a bit more level in that regard. But in lieu of that, wouldn't a JK vs. McCain match-up be interesting?

Also I see JK is not only going to Iraq but also a Middle East tour, including Pakistan to talk to Musharraff. JK will need a good shower after meeting with that snake oil salesman. Good to see him stepping it up and showing how international diplomacy is done. Aside from his fake turkey photo op in Iraq to still shine away from Hillary Clinton's planned visit, I don't recall Shrub ever setting foot over there. Hmmmm....If after 4 years, Shrub suddenly decides to visit the Middle East, it's all about showing up JK.

One more thing...I just heard that for the second time Joe Leiberman turned down the Homeland Security post. I'm glad Joe put personal ambition aside to turn this bad deal down. We need every seat in the Senate we can keep. They would certainly try to put a Repub in his seat and then spend the next 4 years blaming JL for every national security screw up. And if a domestic attack happened on his watch, Dems will never be able to shake the weak on security lie. Don't fall for it Joe!

UN agency report on US use of Iraqi oil money for reconstruction

Watchdog Cites More Halliburton Failings in Iraq
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=7091742

Pentagon auditors found numerous irregularities in a no-competition deal given by US authorities to Halliburton Co. and paid for with Iraqi oil money, [the International Advisory and Monitoring Board], an international watchdog, disclosed on Tuesday.

snip

US officials delayed turning over the audits for seven months after they were requested but finally provided them in October after blacking out portions "to safeguard proprietary information," the board said.

snip

The monitoring board was created by the UN Security Council to watch over US stewardship of Iraq's natural resources during the occupation, which ended last June.

SLOPPY MANAGEMENT
The board has previously accused the Coalition Provisional Authority, which governed Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein until last June, of sloppily managing billions of dollars of Iraqi oil money and moving at a glacial pace to guard against corruption.

The Coalition Provisional Authority has never disclosed how much money Halliburton unit Kellogg Brown and Root was paid from the Development Fund for Iraq, a special account set up at the Security Council's insistence to help monitor US spending of Iraqi money during the occupation.

snip

. . . the monitoring board report looked only at awards paid for with Iraqi money.

snip

In all, the occupation authority spent about $20 billion of Iraqi oil money before relinquishing power to the current Iraqi interim government.

AIDS Research Chief Rewrote Safety Report
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AIDS_DRUG?SITE=WAWAL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
The government's chief of AIDS research rewrote a safety report on a U.S.-funded drug study to change its conclusions and delete negative information. Later, he ordered the research resumed over the objections of his staff, documents show.

Dr. Edmund Tramont, chief of the National Institutes of Health's AIDS Division, took responsibility for both decisions. He cited his four decades of medical experience and argued that Africans in the midst of an AIDS crisis deserved some leniency in meeting U.S. safety standards, according to interviews and documents obtained by The Associated Press.

Tramont's staff, including his top deputy, had urged more scrutiny of the Uganda research site to ensure it overcame record-keeping problems, violations of federal patient safety safeguards and other issues that forced a 15-month halt to the research into using nevirapine to prevent African babies from getting AIDS from their mothers.

AP reported Monday that NIH knew about the problems in early 2002 but did not tell the White House before President Bush launched a plan that summer to spread nevirapine throughout Africa. Now, officials have new concerns the drug may cause long-term resistance in the hundreds of thousands of African patients who received it, foreclosing future treatment options.
... &more

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 10:40 PM

Funny thing, I work for a construction contractor with most of its contracts from the DoD. It's a small, cozy family affair, actually.

I can definitely agree with you about all the contracts drying up lately. Too much money is being sucked up by the war. And I can only imagine it getting worse as our war efforts will soon expand to Iran and Korea.

And like the rest of the construction industry, my employer is very red. We are still counting on a flood of "post-war" spending that Kerry "would have wasted on entitlement programs" How sorry are we?

I'm in California now. Los Angeles County to be exact. My life should be very blue based on that, yet my employer, my neighborhood, and my family are all RED. :(

Washington Post!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A64737-2004Dec14?language=printer

Bush Honors 3 Ex-Officials Instrumental to Iraq Policy

WASHINGTON, Dec. 14 - President Bush awarded the
Presidential Medal of Freedom today to three men who he said had "made our country more secure and advanced the cause of human liberty": Gen. Tommy R. Franks, George J. Tenet and L. Paul Bremer III.

(snip)

"These three men symbolize the nobility of public
service, the good character of our country and the
good influence of America on the world," Mr. Bush said at a White House ceremony as he bestowed the awards, which were established by President Harry Truman to recognize civilians for contributions during World War II.

"At a recent high school reunion, Tommy's old
principal told the general, 'You weren't the bright bulb in the socket,' " Mr. Bush said, alluding to General Franks' early indifference as a student. "To which the general replied, 'Ain't this a great country?' "

(snip)

Later, the chief White House spokesman, Scott
McClellan, rejected any suggestion that Mr. Bush was "trying to make some sort of statement" about his foreign policy by honoring three men associated with the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan and the struggle against terrorism.

Rest at...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/14/politics/14cnd-meda

I know non-union plants that tell their workers that if a union is brought in, the plant leaves the area.

Posted by: battlebob | December 14, 2004 05:48 PM

I just had to reply to another point you made, battlebob...

This is also precisely why the Repugs in my neck of woods love Japanese cars made in America - and I hate them. The Japanese are non-union shops, located in the South where the labor laws are horrendous. These are the automotive equivalent of sweat shops. I even heard (from MSNBC, even) that at the Toyota shop in Kentucky, perpetual temps with no benefits are being used - to save labor costs - with never-filled promises of converting to full-time employees.

No wonder quality of Japanese-American vehicles fall behind their Japanese-built twins. Japanese workers are better treated and turn out better vehicles anyway. In most of the US there is no choice, but on the West Coast some models (like Honda Accord) still offer a choice of Japanese- and American-built examples. You know which one I am getting.

The horror is that even European luxury manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz (ML-Series) and BMW (Z4, X5) have caught the Southern Sweatshop fever. And next in line is Hyundai, which will build some 2006 models in Alabama.

Posted by: DiAnne | December 14, 2004 11:54 PM

Oh great, "defending freedom" now means starting a political war and wasting American lives and resources. Just how far can American values be usurped?

Marjorie G
What do I make of Madsen?
I'm just watching .. I don't know what to think any more. Actually, I don't know which end is up. It's limbo land for me.

This reminds me of Vietnam days, when I was quite young & everything was so unbelievable it was dreamlike. No wonder people took drugs, in & out of the military.

Deja vu. I don't know what to believe anymore. So I just watch & wait, do what I can. I'm pretty sure of my own values by now but as far as what is true, I don't know.

I mean it's appalling to see scandal after scandal after scandal & nothing sticks! It's like much of the populace has Alzheimer's or ADD or have been lobotomized. (Same for certain members of the government)

A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him.
George Orwell

People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome.
George Orwell

Big Brother is watching you.
George Orwell

Early in life I had noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper.
George Orwell

Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.
George Orwell

I sometimes think that the price of liberty is not so much eternal vigilance as eternal dirt.
George Orwell

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell

In every one of those little stucco boxes there's some poor bastard who's never free except when he's fast asleep and dreaming that he's got the boss down the bottom of a well and is bunging lumps of coal at him.
George Orwell

In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics.' All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.
George Orwell

In our time political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible.
George Orwell

It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning.
George Orwell

Liberal: a power worshipper without power.
George Orwell

Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.
George Orwell

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes a revolution in order to establish a dictatorship.
George Orwell

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell

Political chaos is connected with the decay of language... one can probably bring about some improvement by starting at the verbal end.
George Orwell

Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.
George Orwell

Society has always seemed to demand a little more from human beings than it will get in practice.
George Orwell

Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious.
George Orwell

The best books... are those that tell you what you know already.
George Orwell

The great enemy of clear language is insincerity. When there is a gap between one's real and one's declared aims, one turns, as it were, instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish squirting out ink.
George Orwell

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.
George Orwell

The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.
George Orwell

The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history.
George Orwell

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
George Orwell

We of the sinking middle class may sink without further struggles into the working class where we belong, and probably when we get there it will not be so dreadful as we feared, for, after all, we have nothing to lose.
George Orwell

Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.
George Orwell

Whoever is winning at the moment will always seem to be invincible.
George Orwell

Lawmaker Seeks Inquiry Into Ohio Vote

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/15/politics/15ohio.html?adxnnl=1&oref=login&adxnnlx=1103087317-HuHOTORMw3vp2/viKrKA3Q

Florida Dem -
:-)
Well maybe it was wishful thinking on my part - but I'd love to see him on TV all the time. Also, subsequently, I can be a TOTAL goofus at times, and prone to coming up with crazy hare-brained schemes. My husband says I am exactly like Lucille Ball.

Maybe visiting Iraq is a more professional method of showing off his political prowess, however. Maybe a summertime show? After the Iraq visit?
:-)

I can't help it. I'm a Kerry junkie.

Kerry is King

I don't think some people understand.
Some of us feel a void in our lives now.

Kerry is King
Once I revealed on JK's blog that I had located a site called "Crushies for Dean" - so we had a few Crushies for Kerry. Well I just Googled that & I get the old Dean Crushies site and at the top it says,

"Do you mean Crusades for Kerry?"

Not!! It's Bush who is into Crusades.

HAHAHA

I will not go on at length about this, sinceI was gently chided on the Official Blog for it, but there are MANY MANY "fan sites" by and for rabid admirers of Kerry.

They just post pictures and ogle and squeal. There's very little policy involved.

A, um, "friend" told me about these sites.

So yeah, chicks dig Big John.

NEW THREAD!!
KERIK SEXPLOITS!

Kerry is King

Do tell! LOL (I dig Teresa too)
My intent is pure but I still wanna see!

:-)

I could email you, but I don't want to taint this blog with silliness.