"Be Not Conformed to This World"

Reposted from the end of the last thread...

Sy Hersh's piece is the most truly terrifying piece I think I've ever read. Even more terrifying than the article James Fallows wrote for the December Atlantic Monthly giving several different scenarios re what would happen if we were stupid enough to invade Iran. Basically he said it might be doable if we didn't have troops in Iraq - but since we do - all hell would break loose if we went after Iran. It would make what is happening now look like a picnic.

I think Hersh's piece is especially terrifying because clearly the neocons think they have America's approval to operationalize their grand plan.

Seymour M. Hersh | The Coming Wars
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/011805A.shtml

While the rest of the country is talking about the great civil rights strides made,
we in Arizona are trying for an Englisg only ammendment.
The author is a prominent Latino attorney and leader in the Latino community..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0117cardenas17.html

gees...Englisg = English...
Not my fault if g is next to h on the keyboard...

God that's creepy (the Seymour Hirsch) - not sure now whether to read the Atlantic Monthly (James Fallows, Richard C. Clarke - the latter on what would happen with a 2nd terrorist attack) or just keep reading my Boy George autobiography.

As Dianne said......."grrrrrr"to
these damned neocons!!
I need some HELP as broke both my arms yesterday at work as I was hearing the Hirschel piece first-hand on "news"program...seriously! Trying to type w/pencil is compromising..to say the least!
Back to basics now and the realization:NOTHING LASTS FOREVER,AND THE REIGN OF KING GEORGE WILL BE TOO...IF I CAN MAKE IT THROUGH THURSDAY WE'LL ALL MAKE IT.

Patti r u serious? Oh My God!!
I'm back to work in the morning.
Tell me you are not sitting over the computer with a pencil in your mouth!! Take a break!!

I got emails from 3 people, like wtf - are we going to war with Iran or what?

Then I see the Seymour Hirsch on here & read it & get creeped out & forward it to 5 people, like it says.

Now I see this in the Guardian, which means it's morning in London & this is going to be read all over the world. Julian Borger is a reporter who covered alot of election stuff.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1392750,00.html

I'll bet it's in Al-Jazeera & Al-Arabiya.
More winning of hearts & minds - & the timing - what's that about? Breaking us in? A distraction?

Are the neocons insane? The election was stolen - how can there be a mandate?! It's like half the voters oppose all this strongly, the other half of the voters believe anything Bush says.

Then there is the group of 77 eligible voters who did not even bother to vote & who outnumber either the Bush voters or the Kerry voters. Presumably they don't give a shit.

& who will fight these wars? Mercenaries? Am I to believe people will continue to volunteer for the National Guards & go into the military?

Do we now learn to hate a new villain? How can people (who don't care) remember all these names? These foreign names? They really can't use the WMD thing again - well yes they can. Terrorism - that's getting kind of tired. That's so 2001.

I guess they'll say that the Iranians are going to nuke us so we have to get them first.

The nuttiest thing in the Seymour Hirsch article is the idea that the people are so grateful for our intervention that they revolt against their government. Yeah right - just like in Iraq.

Now people are sending me articles & I'm reading them too. Looks like maybe the Bush people did NOT want this Iran story out at this time - right before Condoleeza & the Coronation.

It looks like these articles are emanating from the Seymour Hirsch article. That may be good!

Could most people be so dumb that they would not realize this would require more than covert operations & possibly airstrikes & would just be another quagmire?

U.S. Is Punishing 8 Chinese Firms for Aiding Iran

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/politics/18nukes.html?hp&ex=1106110800&en=d24632e920b461ce&ei=5094&partner=homepage

DiAnne, which Boy George, English or American?

I've been hearing about Iran all month, and remember even a couple of months ago getting pushed by Swift Boats author Corsi (sp?. They have been serious about this for years. So do we have another runaway train?

Posted by: Marjorie G at January 18, 2005 12:58 AM

Marjorie

It was just about a month ago that SBL Corsi was talking about Iran. I hate to give him any credit... slime boater

Night Pamela, be well...

Regarding Iran--EVERYBODY on johnkerry.com said BUsh was going there next. We said he'd run out of soldeirs, and he'd start the draft.

Man...it STINKS BEING RIGHT!!!

WE WANT TO DIVORCE BUSH

a must read!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/opinion/18krugman.html?oref=login&oref=login

Well they can't have my kids in their war. It will not be done.

Indy said months ago they were going into Iran next, to blow them all up so they can make money building them back up again. Halliburton.

Sparrow what are you doing still up. It's past your bedtime.

Sparrow... the odds don't look good...

Kerry PAC to Focus on Voter Disenfranchisement

The Boston Globe notes in tomorrow’s edition that the new Kerry PAC formed after the election will be focusing on voter disenfranchisement and more. Last Wednesday I reported here on LUTD, that some recent changes had been made to the Kerry website.

From the tomorrow’s Boston Globe:

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=241

Great article about why journalists are afraid of the Bushes:

"Unlike other political figures, the Bushes must be given the benefit of the doubt, even if an innocent explanation stretches credulity. Also,
any ambiguity in the reporting - such as sources who are less than pristine or evidence that isn't 100 percent clear - must be interpreted
in the Bushes' favor.

Journalists or other investigators who violate these Bush rules must expect that they are putting their reputations and livelihoods in jeopardy.

Defiant journalists can expect the conservative news media and right-wing interest groups to place critical Bush stories under a microscope. Backgrounds of the witnesses and even the journalists will be investigated, with any blemishes that are found quickly becoming "the
story" in both conservative and mainstream news outlets."

snip

"So, by now, the Bush-journalism rules are well understood by U.S. journalists, even if the rules are never formally enunciated.

The consequences of crossing the Bushes - even if you turn out to be right - can be devastating. Understandably, journalists pull their
punches when the Bush family is involved."

Reprinted from Consortium News: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/011705.html

Here it it again! lst thing in the morning!

http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact

As if we don't already know how evil these facists are, here is a chilling article by a reputable journalist in a reputable publication
that reads like something you'd see in the Freedom Socialist paper. -

emily

The Armstrong Williams payola case is apparently the tip of the iceberg (as Williams let slip to "The Nation"s David Corn).

This woman: Virgina Walden-Ford
was paid 2,500,000.00 in 2004 (5 year deal) to "
continue its outreach to parents about their options under the No Child Left Behind Act, including public school choice and free academic services such as tutoring "

Source (US Govt):
http://www.ed.gov/news/pressreleases/2004/10/10262004a

Then - she spends her time/money spewing this
Anti-Kerry crap all over local radio stations

The sham of GOP Black voter outreach is over and the true Republican mission has begun: suppress the African American vote, by any means possible. To that end, the Bush men have enlisted the mercenary services of Black front groups invented by rightwing foundations in the Nineties to push for school vouchers and other elements of the Republican agenda.

These bought-and-paid-for servants of the Hard Right took to the airwaves in August calling themselves People of Color United and spending a rich white Republican man‚s money to attack Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry as „rich, white and wishy-washy.‰

Robin

Remember when all these radio ads were coming out? & How Bush, when he said "I am the President of everybody" a couple days ago - was also lamenting that he only got 12 percent of the black vote instead of the 18 percent he wanted? & how people like Limbaugh & even Nader were commenting that Kerry should be getting more & making comparisons with when Gore ran & wondering what was going on?

A commentary from the LA Times that's tres interessant (a mon avis)

You Say You Want a Revolution?
The Bush crowd could learn a thing or two from French history.

"Is it a revolt?" asked the blithely detached Louis XVI when a servant informed him that the Bastille had been stormed by a mob in Paris. "No, your majesty," the man replied. "It is a revolution."
--snip--
No wonder President Bush and his Jacobins have such a bee in their bonnets about the French. The Bush administration tried to have a revolution in Iraq, but nobody came.
American troops swept into Iraq to instigate a "regime change" from dictatorship to democracy. That sounds like an attempt at revolution if ever there was one. The problem is that revolutions have to be homegrown to be effective. As the French example proves, a revolution is really a long social and political evolution that finally explodes.
--snip--
In fact, there never has been a successful revolution in modern times that was conducted in a country by a foreign power. Calling a revolution "regime change," as if such a radical transformation of politics and society were a simple technical matter - like upgrading your software - isn't going to set a precedent.
--snip--
So why does the Bush crowd keep insisting on making a revolution from the outside, without the complicity of the people on whose behalf it's being made, in a place that lacks the historical conditions for a successful transformation? It's simple. American conservatives have a bad case of revolution-envy.
--snip--
No wonder conservatives anoint their slightest political triumph a "revolution." There was the Reagan revolution, and then there was the Gingrich revolution. Some people even like to talk about the Bush revolution. ("Is it a regime change?" "No, Mr. President. That was your alarm clock.")

Given their envy of the French, Bush and his own Robespierre wannabe, Karl Rove, might well tune in to tonight's two-hour special. If they do, they'll discover an American indebtedness to the French that is sure to trouble them in more ways than one. For it was Louis XVI who bankrolled the American Revolution, thus impoverishing his government and opening the door to the events of 1789. Louis, you see, wanted to avenge his father's defeat by the British in the Seven Years' War.
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-siegel17jan17,1,1122482.story?ctrack=3&cset=true

Posted by: DiAnne at January 18, 2005 08:05 AM

Link doesn't work. Can you copy/paste?

Marjorie G

I was reading the autobio of the British Boy George, not the American Boy George (such as "Fortunate Son" or "The Family") - I don't think I could stomach it.

Posted by: DiAnne at January 18, 2005 08:12 AM

Hey, people on the street hate him.

Voters hate him.

Exit polls hate him.

But we're suppose to believe he really won? Boy, it must be nice to have corrupted friends and officials stealing votes and commiting election fraud for you.

We all know, without the fraud, suppression, intimidation Bush would be sitting in Crawford polluting the air there.

Oh, and did I say MANY MANY REPULICANS hate him too!

BUSH=THEIF in CHEIF

Sparrow

Really. Subtract everyone he bribed or paid off & he polls at 25%. Some mandate. Same goes for his "international coalition" - if it wasn't for debt forgiveness or locating factories in their countries (like Poland or like he offered Turkey but they turned down) or selling them arms, there would be no "coalition of the willing." & now even Ukraine is pulling out.

If this is what "spreading democracy" is like - let's leave it like it was! & if the "democracy" we'll have in the US under him is anything like what we want to "apread," I don't see what is the point!

Sparrow
I was given that link & I don't know if they've pulled the article or the link isn't right - might be interesting (if time) to dig around in the Govt Education site.

I do remember when Republicans were running ads on black radio stations. That must have been when they paid off these people. In Boston, we met this black woman who had a conservative talk show & she came over to interview us & I ended up interviewing her (KJ, Marjorie, Patti F & I). It was like Alan Keyes & Anne Coulter had a kid.

Sparrow
Here is more on the payola scandal & interestingly, the link doesn't work either, & I tried with & without the little dots at the end.
I wonder if these stories are being bl & this is another reason never to shop at Walmart. & this is more indication that Bush didn't win through goodwill of people but through corruption (bribery, fraud, propaganda).

Virginia Walden-Ford, the operative who placed the attack ads on Black-oriented radio stations in the „battlefield‰ states of Pennsylvania, Missouri, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, is for all practical purposes a paid agent of the Bradley Foundation of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. She is a founding board member of the Black Alliance for Educational Options (BAEO), the pro-school vouchers group conceived, birthed and
jump-started with at least $2 million in 1999 by the far-right Bradley and Walton Family Foundations (Wal-Mart). Since George Bush assumed office, BAEO and a host of its vouchers/privatization siblings ˆ each the incestuous spawn of the Right‚s foundation funding
network ˆ have collected over $77 million dollars in grants from Secretary Rod Paige‚s Education
Department. In effect, Virginia Walden-Ford‚s BAEO ˆ which received $1.3 million in federal funds ˆ has been „graduated‰ to a Bush administration functionary, while continuing to be subsidized by the Walton family, Bradley, and other far-right moneybags. These Black attack dogs are well fed.

Source: http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Bush-Attack-Dogs2s...

Here's another way to show your feelings on Jan. 20

Visit http://www.imblue.net/ and buy an "I'm Blue" mourning armband or bumper sticker to display on Inauguration Day and they'll donate a percentage back to Intervention Magazine. Simply type in "intervention" when asked for the coupon code.

When you wear your "I'm Blue" armband, you can join in an "armed" resistace on Inauguration Day and show the Bush administration that their so-called mandate did not wipe out all informed dissent.

Share a moment of silence on Inauguration Day to mourn the loss in November, if you must. But then prepare to make your voice heard, because it's more important now than ever before.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16499-2005Jan17.html

As Jan. 20 Nears, Terror Warnings Drop
Faulty Intelligence, Dated Information Led to Cautions

As Jan. 20 Nears, Terror Warnings Drop
Faulty Intelligence, Dated Information Led to Cautions

Backtrack Time

Opening the news this morning these two articles or op-eds jumped out at me, During the election process we all saw Bush and company send out tons of missinformation, we knew they would have to backtrack on somethings after the election. But these were two huge issues for Bush the supposed many (we knew false terror warnings, remember be afraid be very afraid) terror warnings and the threat we were constantly under(supposedly). The bigger wedge issue of gay marriage, the divisive way Bush pushed this country. Now he says oppps well I may have been hasty about the gay marriage issue, then after plans are in place and money spent on security(in my mind basically to keep those of us who dislike Bush out of washington on Inauguration day) They say oppps faulty intelligance there is no real threat?? Are the rapid Bush people buying this crap and where are our supposed legislators when all this is happening?? What are they doing? Folks by now even the most ardent Bush supporter should be saying "We Have Been Dupped", and we can sadly expect 4 more years of being lied to and given missinformation supposing of course that it suits Bush and Companies Agenda.

Am I bitter? no, sadly resigned to the mess our children will get from this man and his cronies, and let down by the thought that there are oversite committees in place for just this reason and they are overseeing nothing except their pocket books.
Tuesday, Jan 18, 2005; 7:13 AM

opps link for the sec above article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/opinion/18morris.html?pagewanted=2&th

Errol Morris, the filmmaker of the brilliant Fog of War, and yet another blaming Kerry for not being forthright about Vietnam comparisons to Iraq as if Kerry were in a vacuum. I need to address it in an LTE.

Most of the country was and still is in a fog about this war, and worse yet, last summer, when journalists, mostly TV, failed to discuss it other than as a Bush apologist, and as a necessity. Without a fairness doctrine of equal time, much less bias, how was Kerry to explain anything?

Any impression that the campaign was flummoxed, which it was to a degree, and overly managed, had less to do with the clarity of the candidate, known for a fine mind and integrity, than with what to do about the misinformed public. The potential voters would have had to suspend a lot of belief in the president, administration, and in many areas. While John Kerry, trying to make the case almost single-handedly, without a supposed objective press, as someone applying for the job, he would appear credible?

The press laid down on its job, and helped sell patriotism and spreading democracy, Bush style.

I wish people understood we had to follow the awareness tract of the public and unable to change it, with the press trying to undermine. He couldn’t have stopped another war, single-handedly without the press, and the purpose was to get elected. Our frustration is that he is the only one who could have stopped this madness, yet the country didn’t know we were and are in danger.

I’ll decide how I want to phrase it, exactly, in four sentences, but I wish Mr. Morris would answer how Kerry was to make the case.

Sorry for yet another rant.

Hello guys,

Its me. It has been a while but I have been here. I just been really busy with school and this year appears like it is going to be a real doozy. However, I stopped in today and saw this beautiful post about MLK. He was a wonderful man indeed. Definately a man who should continue to make this current administration quiver for all of the unjustice acts that they are continuing to commit everyday.

Off topic, but this opinion by Thomas Friedman highlights why we have to frame issues to appeal to voters. If we can learn to frame as expertly as our opponents do, we have a chance of appealing to the emotional factors which influence voters attraction to a candidate or position. This piece clearly shows that the biologic processing of the issue/candidate can have a profound influence on the final opinion one generates about that issue/candidate. By just "fine tuning" our message we can make a huge difference.

Fine tuning does not mean simplicity. Certainly, I am not talking about a simple process. Our opposition developed their frames over a period of forty years. That means to me, it took them forty years (a generation) to corrupt what is inherently normal human compassion and logic. Because our message does appeal to a more noble human cause it will take us substationally less time to make a difference.

I use to think that people that voted for Bush were just plain dumb. Well, maybe some are. As we all know, many people voted for Bush based on emotions. We all asked ourselves, "How can people vote against their own self interests?". We can see that it was the way the issue was presented, not the quality of the idea that made a difference (Many times I have heard people say, "If we only had a more charismatic candidate, we would have won." Not true.) If the issue is framed correctly we will appeal to emotions and thereby make that nebulous cognitive "connection" with voters. I think you will find this interesting reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/18/opinion/18freedman.html?oref=login&th

Is isn't funny that now that the election is over, there have been no terror warning coming out of this administration. Coincidence? I think not!!

This about Bush's ownership society...better grab your wallets..

http://www.alternet.org/story/21000/

Is isn't funny that now that the election is over, there have been no terror warning coming out of this administration. Coincidence? I think not!!

Posted by: vana at January 18, 2005 10:07 AM

Actually DHS is planning to scrap the whole color-coded warning system. Rats, I can't feel "fuchsia" any more.

"Bush Says Election Ratified Iraq Policy" NOT.

Bill Clinton's appearance at the faux inauguration is a disgrace; being an ex President or not. His messgae: Its OK to have right wing policies for America, I will lend my hand.

I think Mark Cuban has it right that this inauguration is a slap at the world community.

Do the Right Thing - Cancel Inauguration Parties

First, let me get my politics on the table. I’m an independent. I try to look at every issue with an open mind. I don’t have a favorite politician. I don’t donate money to politicians. I think any cause is better than getting a politician re-elected. I try to stay above politics and look only at the issues.

And there are plenty of issues.

As a country we face huge budget deficits. We face a declining currency. We have service people dying. We face responsibilities to help those suffering from the ongoing consequences and devastation from the Tsunamis. Then of course there are our obligations to our own citizens.

Responsibility. As a country we have taken on the responsibility of helping our own, and others around the world. That’s not a bad role. It’s a good role. They are among the many reasons I am proud to be an American.

What concerns me is that our politicians don’t understand that with accepting responsibility for providing financial support for ourselves and others comes the responsibility to pay the bills. As someone who has had more than one credit card confiscasted and scissored, I understand that its a lot more fun to look like a big shot charging up debt to pay for good deeds, then it is to write the check when the bills are due.

I am all for helping in every single opportunity where it is required. I just want to know that our polticians understand that it has to be paid for, and know how we are going to pay for it.

It would make perfect sense if we, as Americans, would contact our politicians and let them know how we want to pay for obligations. How nice would it be for a community to stand up and say… We don’t need the 100k for a Punxsutawney Phil Museum. We don’t need 25k for the study of Mariachi Music. We don’t need 3mm dollars to help fisherman sell seafood in Alaska. Or any of thousands of other low on the priority list items that have been funded with taxpayer dollars. Instead, lets use that money to help the Tsunami victims. Or put that in a fund for the next disaster that is sure to occur.

Of course that’s not going to happen. It’s the culture that we have. We are giving it out, so get yours while you can. Let everyone else figure out how its going to be paid for.

It’s a tradition that can only be changed from the top.

It’s up to President Bush to set an example.

How about it Mr. President? Can you take the first step? I can help you figure out where to start.

Start by cancelling your inauguration parties and festivities.

Could there be anything more confusing and shocking than to read that our country was offering $35mm in aid to the areas affected by the Tsunamis, but that the cost of inauguration parties would be about $40mm?

Does anyone else think that this is wrong?

I realize that the cost for the inauguration is being picked up by corporate sponsors and people purchasing outrageously priced tickets. The question is why.

Why are all these corporations and people spending all that money? Hey I love a good party, but there ain’t no party like a $10,000 per ticket party. It’s a 10k dollar ass kissing. As an accountant, fund raiser when asked about the high prices to attend the Inaugural events told the NY Times, “its the cost of playing the game”.

Mr President, its time to change the game.

In your re-election campaign, you talked a lot about leadership. Your ability to lead in times like these. Your ability to set an example. Mr President, it’s time to show that leadership. It’s time to set an example.

Cancel all but the most basic inauguration requirements.

It should be the easiest decision of your 2nd term.

You, Laura and the girls can still have family over and appreciate your blessings. I’m sure people who want to get out and have a good time, will still find a way to have fun. But that 40mm dollars can go a long way. Instead of shaking hands all night and being driven from party to party, send them a thank you card letting them know that the corporate and individual donations that had been earmarked for fun, was now going to help more people than they could ever imagine. Without the hangovers.

The impact of cancelling the frills would be staggering. You would immediately send the message that you as President and we as a country, really do know how to prioritize. That we will start accepting financial responsibility.

It would be hard for other politicians to not follow your lead. You could ask them to do the right thing and give up something they can do without, so that there are dollars available for those who really need them.

Leadership starts at the top. Culture change can start with some things that really are easy to do.

And 40mm dollars going to help those really in need can have a huge impact.

Do the right thing. Send the right message. Lead by example Mr President"

Ira,
It is just he new Texas two-step...
Shake hands with the right hand, grab a check with the left..
And then go watch others be miserable...

Oh yes, one more thing..
Security?
Sitck the tab to the locals...They can take it out of their Homeland Security budget...

battlebob:

I know of your dislike of Clinton. This is the first time that I am truly disugusted with him. His appearance at the faux inauguration is much worse than Monicagate.
Our message to Bush: you have pushed too far. The Washington Post headlines above state that his re election(in his midn) is that it is a confirmation of his Iraqi policy. If Clinton is present, he sends the message that he supports this nonsense whether that is his intent or not. It turns my stomach bob.

Reread your post bob and it appears to be about Bush not Clinton.

Clintons main goal now is to show that he and Hillary are moderate to set her up for a presidental run! Sorry but Clinton wasnt hated by the Republicans and Loved by us because he was overtly moderate, it was because he had a sound mind and some intelligance.

Hillary lost her shot its gone her actions over the last few weeks have taken them away the base of the party will not follow her now, and that is going to be the biggest problem facing her. I used to love her now, I do not she has sadly disppointed me, but thats minor there were many men out their like my husband who had a ton of respect for her, she has managed to alianate those people to and my husband isnt very political. So Clinton needs to go sit down someplace right now and shut up he will not heal the divide with these actions he is only splitting the party farther. IMO

It is about Bush.
I wish Clinton would not attend.
I image all Congress folks will be there somewhere.
As much as I dislike Clinton, I dislike Bush a lot more.
I could see Clinton attending W's first one as the keys were being handed over.
This probably something to show the continuity of our government.
Of course, Bush has copies of the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights. There are right there, in the presidential privy. Bush uses them everyday, just like everything else.

"Bush has copies of the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights."
he needs to pull them out someday and learn what they say. he apparently learned nothing in grade school.
I am huge Clinton fan but I find his appearance at the inauguration Offesive to the 48% of the country. I am not interested in bipartisnaship. As they say been there, tried to do that.

Posted by: April at January 18, 2005 11:04 AM

What has Hillary done to irratate everyone?
I know she has adopted immigration and port security as her issues. Guess I haven't heard much from her.
I know the press is focusing on her possible 2008 run.

Posted by: Ira at January 18, 2005 11:10 AM

I agree with you...
Are we supposed to roll over on the issues that are important to us?
Suddenly say deficits are great or abandon RvW or quit wanting health care for all, etc, etc?
I think not.

On the same vein, Jim Wallis of Sojourners was on CSPN this morning talking about that very thing.
We have to couch our issues in moral parameters.
We have to show how shallow, dangerous and immoral the Repub platform is and how ours is the opposite. It seems so obvious but 52% said otherwise.
Wallis called it a maraton, not a sprint.

marathon, not maraton.
keys getting lost in the bifocals..

Wallis mentioned trying to find common ground with the Repubs, but I just don't see how.
We are polarized and it isn't going to change.

battlebob:

Common Ground. I say not just no but Hell No.
Were they interested in 1994 when Hillary wanted common ground on real healthcare. Is Tom Delay interested in common ground. Oh like instead of 7% of SS invested in stocks we should allow 5%.
I call that cowardice, gutless. Either this party will grow a spine or we should just cash it all in. Now is the time to draw an Absolute line in the sand. Perhaps that is why 52% keep voting ep. They feel they have a spine and we have none. I am just not in any mood especially this week for "compromise". I hope the DNC agrees.

"he needs to pull them out someday and learn what they say. he apparently learned nothing in grade school."

Read them?
He is rying to color them!

Kerry. Live. CNN. Now.

Posted by: pcdoc at January 18, 2005 11:41 AM

Great job on the chat room...
I like the look and feel and the similey's are great.

A different subject..
Corporate reforms are loosing steam. Looks like someone doesn't want restrictions on graft and corruption.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/0117biztrials17.html

[snip]
"The pendulum has gone too far," said David Hirschmann, a senior vice president who serves as point man at the Chamber of Commerce in Washington on the top issues facing American businesses.

"There have been some unintended consequences that are having significant negative impacts on our economy, and we need to fix those aspects that weren't done right."

Hirschmann said that the unintended consequences have included unnecessary expenditures by companies to meet the bureaucratic demands of new rules, decisions by companies to postpone certain technology purchases to avoid triggering compliance requirements and a decline in the number of foreign companies willing to list on American stock exchanges.

I posted this last night on this thread.

Posted by: battlebob at January 18, 2005 12:03 AM
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0117cardenas17.html

Here is another editorial
http://www.azcentral.com/news/columns/articles/0118montini18.html

For those that are unfamiliar with wacky Arizona, an English Only amendment passed years ago and was shot down by the courts and public opinion.

The right wingnuts are at it again.
The first article is by Jose Cardinas who is a prominent Latino attorney and social activist.

The second is from columnist EJ Montini who gleefully angers the far right.

Kind of a funny aside..
Two of my best friends are a latino brother and sister. During the first EO debacle she was head of the EO movement and he was head of the anti-EO movement. It made for a lot of not-so-friendly family gatherings.

The logic goes something like this:
The EO people say if you want to be a full productive member of society then you need to learn English. If not, you will never get out of the barrio.
The anti-EO people say you can participate fully maintaining your own language. By keeping your own roots, you will enrich society in general. You will learn enough English to communicate with others. Mr Cardinas makes a point that it is not our language that unites us, it is our ideas.

There is a lot more to the arguments then my thumb-nail description indicates. Stay tuned for more on this fight.

A different subject..
"Corporate reforms are loosing steam. Looks like someone doesn't want restrictions on graft and corruption"

The Chamber is working bob to undo or weaken the Sarbanes/Oxley legislation. Look for that in a second term bob. They whine and complain about it at every seminar that I have attended since it has gone into effet.

Ira,
You got that right. During the election campaign, the CofC was all but genuflecting for Bush.
Gotta get those bucks out of the sheep. Gotta fleece them before someone else does.

If you thought the 2000 stock market crash was bad, you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait until the real-estate crash hits.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/trouble_at_home_the_housing_bubble.php

i've said this before and i'll say it again. we need help in pennsylvania. santorum has got to go. he is going to be getting prettied up and played up. he is going to get lots of face time. it makes me sick. the fundamentalist, god-driven idiocy isn't going anywhere. if we don't beat santorum in 2006, we can kiss 2008 goodbye. i don't know why i am so sure of that, but i am.

http://postgazette.com/pg/05017/443573.stm

In my mind this morning, everything, every issue, every affront to Americans, pales in comparison to the outright treason of this administration exposed by Seymour Hersh.

Not only are these crazed warmongerers putting Americans at more risk than ever, they're also putting the rest of the world at risk. Whoever yesterday said that countries are lining up for WWIV was right. Only unlike WWIII, this one will involve nuclear weapons and widespread carnage. It's naive to think that it won't reach our shores.

How is it that these people can't remember the decade or more of peace and prosperity that resulted when we stopped all that "weapons are the solution" stuff?

From the article:

"Do you remember the right-wing
execution squads in El Salvador?" the former
high-level intelligence official asked me,
referring to the military-led gangs that
committed atrocities in the early
nineteen-eighties. "We founded them and we
financed them," he said. "The objective now is to
recruit locals in any area we want. And we aren't
going to tell Congress about it." A former
military officer, who has knowledge of the
Pentagon's commando capabilities, said, "We're
going to be riding with the bad boys."

and another:

"It's a finesse to give power to Rumsfeld-giving
him the right to act swiftly, decisively, and
lethally," the first Pentagon adviser told me.
"It's a global free-fire zone."

and another:

"Rumsfeld will no longer have to refer anything
through the government's intelligence wringer,"
the former official went on. ".... The most insidious implication of the new system
is that Rumsfeld no longer has to tell people
what he's doing so they can ask, 'Why are you
doing this?' or 'What are your priorities?' Now
he can keep all of the mattress mice out of it."

We are in terrible times.

Posted by: battlebob at January 18, 2005 12:15 PM

Oh the joys of living in the Barry Goldwater state...

I believe that MLK Jr. Day is not a state holiday in Arizona, am I correct?

Any Latino who backs English only legislation is a worthless sellout, like the Jewish Nazis, the black Klansmen or the Log Cabin Republicans. Unfortunately these right-wing sellout minorities tend to have disproportionate influence and power.

Posted by: tutterfly at January 18, 2005 12:56 PM

I may be far away in California, but I'll be glad to help out with ousting Santorum. Pennsylvania deserves better, and after what he said about homosexuality a year or two ago, the entire nation deserves better.

I agree with you that if we can't oust Santorum in "moderate" Pennsylvania, we are pretty much finished.

They feel they have a spine and we have none.

Posted by: Ira at January 18, 2005 11:31 AM

Unfortunately that's how I feel too.

tutterfly:

I planned on being up there to help but you need a strong candidate first. I would be thrilled to see Rendell leave the governor's office but I am sure Pa would not. Joe hoeffel was pretty weak candidate and I understand that you have secondary parties like the Constutional and Libertarian parties that in a close election will make a difference. Time to infiltrate them. I hope you find a strong primary candidate quikcly and not drain resources from the general election. Abortion seems to be an ultra sensitive issue up there so the Pa Dem Party needs to try and take a very moderate position on abortion at your state convention.

Otter is up there sonmewhere and I would suggest you hook up with him. Pa is definitely the top Senate race for the DNC in 2006 and I agree with you that it is time to start building a foundation for what I anticipate to be a very ver very very ugly race by Santorum.

Amy -
Tavis Smiley also criticized JK this a.m. on the Tom Joyner Morning Show basically saying too little too late on the voter suppression issue. The thing is JKs lawsuits and subsequent emails to supporters did address this issue before the contesting of the EC vote happened. JK acknowledged yesterday in his speech that to the objection of many he decided not to protest the vote but hr has plans to push forward lesgislation against it. Of course Tavis, doesn't know the full scoop because I doubt he's on JKs email list (he's definitely more of a Dean supporter), but still to basically call him and Al Gore panderers for, as he puts it, waiting to talk about voter suppression months after the election in front of a black audience, was out of line. Tavis is great for rallying the troops to block nominiations, but sometimes he can get ahead of himself without all the facts. No one knows what JKs true motivations were for not being the leader in the vote protest. And I hate that Tavis uses his influence to push across his ill-informed point of view on the listening public who (like it or not) depend on him for news and perspective. Frankly I think, as far as wooing the grassroots of the party goes, it would have been an easier decision for JK to lead the protest. Sure the Repubs would have flogged him senseless but the base would have been more excited about him, not overwhelmed but at least less critical. I think the tougher decision that he and Gore made -- to be true statesmen -- risking ridicule and standing within their own party was actually took more guts.

Ah, the MLK holiday...We are skilled at taking a joyous remembrance of one of the giants of our time and turning it into a food fight.
Many moons ago, the right wingnuts got Evan Meecham elected governor. Three people ran for the office, no one got a majority and Ed got the most votes.
The desire to honor MLK was sweeping the country and we also had a holiday.
For some reason known only to his hemorrhoids, Ev redcinded the holiday. The feds still recognized the holiday. The NFL got PO'ed and moved the superbowl elsewhere.
We ‘zonans were more angry at losing the revenue generated by the superbowl then not honoring a great hero to all. I don’t remember the exact timeframe, but sometime passed before we got our heads out of our asses and did the correct thing. MLK Day is a paid state and Federal holiday. I usually take off for the festivities. I took off yesterday but while driving to the parade, I was a witness to an auto accident and missed the whole thing. 25,000 people marched in the two mile parade. It was spectacular. You probably heard about the violence afterwards. For the kids, after the parade and speeches, entertainment was set up to encourage everyone to chill out and be at peace with each other on a day that was named for a man of peace. But a few kids decided to make this gang warfare day and there were clashes between different gang and school groups.
The mayor of Phoenix – Tom Gordon – wants to end the next year’s festivities with a group prayer; after all, Dr. King was a Baptist minister.

Marjorie, I actually liked the Morris article. Of course, I don't agree that the issue he discusses caused Kerry to lose the election. I believe, and will always believe, that the Rovians rigged the machines. Not only in this election, but in many others. There is not a single shred of doubt in my mind, expecially after reading the stats on Snohomish County in WA. Even Zogby said that the chances of the stats lining up like they did were about 250 million to one.

But I do think that Kerry may have had an easier time of things if he'd come clean and been himself right from the start. The man has greatness in him, but in a way, there was an attempt to hide it during the campaign.

Posted by: florida dem at January 18, 2005 01:19 PM

This is a fight that has only just begun, and I think JK knows that. As someone said, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Pacing, strategy, and stamina are the tools to use in this fight.

I'm still in shock over the Hersh article. It's like a James Bond movie, with the bad guys in the White House.

The issue of bringing minorities from the barrio or ghetto into mainstream society is a lot more complex then demanding everyone speak English. I have argued this point for years. Just because you are poor or don’t speak a language doesn’t mean you don’t have a brain. Everyone has some ambition or some desire to succeed – or once did. Sometimes the trick is to get through the barriers. Starting a business or bringing businesses to inner cities involves more then just English classes. Property and liability insurance costs in inner cities are incredibly expensive.
How about subsidizing insurance expenses to allow property owners to lease their properties for less money?
How about subsidizing business training so those that want to start a business will do so? How about guaranteed business loans for inner city start-ups? (a John Kerry program by the way)
Schools must be improved and dedicated teachers will have to be over-paid to take jobs in these area.
Many families are dysfunctional because of many problem such as substance abuse, illness, or beaten down by repeated failures. An increased social service system is needed.
The list goes on and on and on…
I have proposed something like this many times before. The answer is usually it is too expensive, or too hard (sound familiar?)
My answer is we are paying for it anyway. We may as well invest the money in people in ways that may allow them to succeed.
If it is too hard, get the F out of the way and let someone do it.
So far, the right wingnut dominance and budget shortfall (they are related) have stifled any attempt to supply people with enough tools and support to get them out of poverty. Repubs just never see that helping someone else helps everyone. That is one of many reasons why I busted my ass so much for Kerry. I see him as throwing the lifeline to these people. Bush is encasing their feet in concrete and tossing them over the side.

Okay,
I read some accounts on Daily Kos of JK grilling Condi and basically psoters are saying he schooled her while she yammered and stammered her way thru. This from DK of all places. I'm shocked. Actual positive comments about his grilling. Go figure.

Anyway, how Condi continues to get by yamah-dama-ding-donging her way thru serious questioning is beyond me. It's amazing. Rove hands out a script with a couple of cosmetic talking points pertaining to freedom and patience and she skates by. Unbelieveable. But it's nice to "hear" that JK did get tough and that he's getting props for it.

I can't believe Americans would let Bush anywhere near SS after the mess he's made of the federal budget. He took a comfortable surplus, and turned it into a breathtaking deficit. The same thing he did with all his companies, and they all failed.

And we're going to let this guy overhall our Social Security??! What craziness is this? We really are in bizzaro land, aren't we?

Damn, Florida, I missed it!

America is OUR baby...

Suspicious Minds
by Elvis Preseley

We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much baby
Why can't you see
what your doing to me
When you don't believe a word I say
We can't go on together with
Suspicous minds
and we can't build our dreams
on suspicious minds
So where's that old friend I know
I thought I'd say hello
would I still see suspicion in your eyes
Here we go again
asking where I've been
you can't see the tears
are real I'm crying
We can't go on together with
Suspicous minds
and we can't build our dreams
on suspicious minds
Home that I love survive
I'll dry the tears from your eyes
Let's don't let a good thing die
When honey you know how I'd miss you
I do mm mm yeah yeah
We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much baby
Why can't you see
what your doing to me
When you don't believe a word I say
Don't you know
We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much baby
Don't you know
We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much baby

Just came on board, Amy. I know I'm far too defensive about the situation as we found it. Although Holbrooke, Shrum and others, wanted him to be similar to Iraq in postion to Bush, strategically, I guess, Kerry did become himself after the September speech with what he had said before (as the few of us know). He sure was emphatic.

It's the strategy if Iraq had gone the other way, I'm mad at having to dodge, and still understanding the reality of it. What if all had not gone so wrong in Iraq, and the press is still not being tough enough. Would they after the fact argues for the illegality and immorality with Bush-bought press?

I know what you mean, but I want others to, for once, see some reality in having to dodge and win.
Which we probably did. We still lost votes of those who didn't like the war, but thought Kerry would cut and run.

i'm glad somebody agrees with me that santorum is going to be a forerunner of what we will face in 2008. we have to get it right in this race. if the 'morals and values' election of 2004 is still successful in 2006, its going to be even worse in 2008. and santorum wants the white house. in 2008? maybe not, but we have to assume he is in play as much as anyone else. and if you think what we have now is scary, look out.

Someone in my legislative district is trying to get the district to collectively endorse Dean for DNC chair. I'm feeling very uneasy about this. This person is trying to get an email campaign going, through the district and the county, to have our governor endorse Dean.

What do you folks all think about this? My uneasiness stems from the fact that we are so removed from the action that there is a lot we don't know. This person has many misconceptions about Dean. I have no idea who to support myself. But I don't want to be part of a collective effort to support anyone.

Posted by: tutterfly at January 18, 2005 02:10 PM

Tut-

Let us know about things we can do to help defeat santorum in 06. I will help out in any way i can... i agree santorum is important to defeat.

Posted by: battlebob at January 18, 2005 01:53 PM

And there is also the perception to fight - the perception that the Repugs understand small business better. In fact my employer is stuck solidly in that mindset and there is nothing I can do to change it. I know that the Dems will help small businesses more, but that fact falls on deaf ears here. We are just seen as the party of more bureaucracy and taxes, and we have to change it.

Posted by: Amy at January 18, 2005 02:23 PM

Amy-

I have the same uneasiness about that as you. While I wouldnt necessarily have a problem with Dean as chair, I would hope that he doesnt get that possition due to a bunch of "deaniacs" with misconceptions about him.

skinnylawyer:
seems like it might be easier to redeflect now that dems are more fiscally responsible than republicans.

I think the constant repetition of the debt and the loopholes bush has pulled from the small guy and given to the ceo's might help.

It appears that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has been avoiding meeting with Gold Star Families, who have some tough questions for him. The families of our brave young men and women in the armed services deserve better than this…

Gold Star Families, who are members of Military Families Speak Out, have been writing to Rumsfeld since Jan. 5, 2005 requesting a meeting. To date, there has been no response from the Secretary or his office.

More: http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=242

(American Progress report)

IRAQ – MISSING THE MOMENT:

Calling November's election an "accountability moment," President Bush said last week there was no need to reprimand any administration officials responsible for the mistakes and misjudgments in planning for the Iraq war and its aftermath. "The American people listened to different assessments made about what was taking place in Iraq," President Bush said, "and they looked at the two candidates and chose me, for which I'm grateful."

Exit polls from Nov. 2 showed that those who cited Iraq as the most important election issue actually voted overwhelmingly for President Bush's opponent, John Kerry.

Also, a University of Maryland study from October found that the vast majority of Bush supporters incorrectly believed that WMDs or a major weapons program had been found in Iraq, and that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda.

Moreover, 58 percent of Bush supporters said the U.S. should not have invaded Iraq "if US intelligence had concluded that Iraq was not making WMD or providing support to al Qaeda."

Concerned also with Deaniacs blasting emails and getting Dean chosen for the wrong reasons by his supposed grassroots example. Not the same skill set for what he'd have to do, know about, or concern himself with going forward.

And Florida, any way we can talk to Travis about how JK was as much positioned by others, the Black caucus, for instance, how best to play this going forward. I'm still mixed at how nice it would have been for him to get the support Boxer is getting, although in an easier position, but at least clue Travis S. in on what Kerry did, that we know about, and some other realities? He is respected, and has a blind spot for Dean, for what he supposedly brought with him, as did Jesse, Jr.

Is it too late to respond? This from PRogressforAz

Senator Barbara Boxer intends to ask Condoleezza Rice some tough questions at her Senate confirmation hearing in the coming days.
-- questions the American people deserve to have answered:

* Why did the United States go to war in Iraq based on misleading -- if not false and fraudulent -- evidence?

* Why did we divert valuable resources and intelligence personnel to Iraq, taking them away from Afghanistan and the pursuit of Osama bin Laden?

* Why did Dr. Rice mislead the American people into thinking there was a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaida before September 11th?

If you agree that we must hold Condoleezza Rice accountable for her decisions, I urge you to stand with Senator Boxer, myself, and millions of Americans.

Sign Senator Boxer's petition at the link below, so she can take your voice with her to the committee room and the floor of the Senate in the pursuit of the truth from Condoleezza Rice.

THANKS!!

http://ga4.org/campaign/ricehearings?rk=S1zgmrF1jBQfW

Dianne:

And as the NYTs and all of know Bush spent the WHOLE camaign lying to us, the media lied to us, and THEN they "leaked" the truth out after the fact.

Bush is delusional.

Amy

I want to keep you posted as I find out more up our way. We have the same sort of faction but the group I am working with isn't involved with that. That said, we know that the State Dem head & other high-ups in the state supported Dean before. They are the same people who didn't end up getting our voter lists in good order. Even now, they are more concerned with platform than with our goals: 1) strong infrastructure for volunteers to work with, 2) uniform voting system.

Therefore, I do not favor Behrend to continue as head of Washington State Dems and if he does, he needs pressure to get things in order.

The group didn't discuss DNC head, but I favor Rosenberg, as does Congressman Adam Smith (early Kerry backer) and also Ali Wade (his assistant who was state Kerry campaign head). Since our group is made up of former Kerry volunteers, I would assume there is some congruence with this.

If we have two factions, so be it. Ours has the more practical thrust and our gubernatorial race shows that we need this, straightaway!! I heard on the radio this morning that the Dems in the Legislature favor uniform voting across the state (same system) and the Republicans aren't interested in this approach (for obvious reasons).

Urban WA was heavy on Dean but he only won 3 precincts & got slammed by Kerry. That shows that the rank & file of Democrats wanted Kerry.
I presume that this urban vs rest-of-Dems pattern is maybe it's "progressive" vs those perceived to be more mainstream (but which I doubt is true in actuality).

Same thing may be playing out in your part of the state. Dean was trendy & he had a strong following.

Marjorie G

People on the internet are the loudest but they don't pull all the strings. Dean won one primary, right?

If on-line petitions were very powerful, we could have world peace today (not discounting that we slowed Sinclair, ran some ads & so on or that it hurts to fill your legislators' boxes).

Sparrow, like all the editorials only now, conveniently, questioning the war, even his USA Today.

Amy/Dianne:

It is your state and I am not about to tell you what to do but I see absolutely nothing wrong with Dean or his supporters doing their homework and lobbying your state officials to support him. In fact I would be disppointed if he didn't. To me that shows his desire and worthiness as a choice. I am unsure about Dean as party head myself, and personally think that Rosenberg or Wellington Webb would be preferable choices.
If you prefer one of the other candidates I would urge you to lobby your state dem party officials in the same way as the Deanics. That is what makes a democracy so wonderful.

native,

thank you. right now, the population is unhappy with santorum's response after the hurricane ivan floods. he was most unhelpful and his photo-op appearance was terrible. people have to be reminded of that. there is also the way he was funding his kids education. we need to capitalize on the fact that this is not a warm person, he is very aloof and cutting with people. we have to frame him that way for two years.
eddie rendell also has to take up whoever the candidate is and love him/her to pieces.
there cannot be a dog fight primary, and there has to be a good money raising arm in place, SOON. my local dem leader is a real nutcase.

whoever expresses the desire to run, and is looking for backing will not be able to wait too long to get a war chest together. young bob casey is like a golden name around here. his late daddy, the former governer was well liked. in a sense he would take away some of santorums morals and values issues. and as far as i kknow he is lily white in all other ways.

i have tried and tried to come up with other Pa. names to put against sanorum, but when you talk about all politics being local, you have got to visit Pa. to see that in action. an eastern democrat will suffer in the west part of the state. and a western democrat gets beat up on in the philly burbs. that leaves th middle part of the state to make up our minds, and as james carville says, thats alabama running right up the middle.

if you were in this state, you would know rendell wants more money for the environment. we are having trouble funding mass transit, slot machine gambling just passed and will be up and running in 2006. whoever our candidate is, that person will have to talk to issues that are near and dear to this state. somehow people seem to think santorum DOES something for the state, but for the life of me, i can't think of what those things might be.

it's like running in place right now. my motor is revving, and the tank is full. i just don't know what road to take. i do know that staying in neutral for too long is going to be a big mistake.
otter and i have talked about this, but nothing concrete has come to light.

no matter what it is that we do right now, we have to keep santorums fet to the fire for two years, and that means taking him apart every time he makes a move.

Posted by: Marjorie G at January 18, 2005 02:50 PM

I am concerned also. Dean has been rebuilding the party at local and state levels. If we want power, we must get it state by state.
But the negative battle with his supporters does no good and will actually hurt all Dems in the long run.
I don't mind the effort given. If his supporters want to crank out tons of emails then great. To win this thing, energy and drive are necessary. But not if it is done with lies or we direct it at each other. Democrats do not respond well to a heavy hand. A grassroots effort starts at local levels with the local folks determining their direction. Some will be more rabid then others but it will be at levels locals are comfortable with.

In Dean's defense, sometimes you have to get people to get off the pot and make a decision. So in-your-face now and then wakes people up a little.
Too many people spend too much time checking the wind direction before decisions are made.

Sen Boxer kicking Rice butt...
Sen Boxer stood up against the debacle in Ohio and is standing up against the Rice confirmation. She is proving the old adage that unless you are the lead dog, the scenary never changes.

Rice, Boxer spar in confirmation hearing
.......

California Sen. Barbara Boxer questioned Rice aggressively before the panel broke for lunch, suggesting that Rice's loyalty to Bush and her mission to defend the war in Iraq "overwhelmed your respect for the truth."

Rice bristled, saying that "I have to say that I have never, ever, lost respect for the truth in the service of anything," She later told Boxer, "I really hope that you will refrain from impugning my integrity."

Boxer pointed out what she said were inconsistencies in Rice's statements about the imminent threat of nuclear weapons in Iraq.

"This is a pattern here of what I see from you," Boxer said. "It's very troubling. ... It's hard for me to let go of this war because people are still dying." She said Rice has not acknowledged those deaths, has not laid out an exit strategy for Iraq and has been unwilling to admit mistakes -- including going to war over weapons of mass destruction found later not to exist.

Rice insisted the war in Iraq was not launched solely over WMD. Saddam Hussein, she said, welcomed terrorists, attacked his own neighbors and paid suicide bombers in the conflict between Israel and Palestinians.

But Boxer said the bill passed by Congress authorizing the war in Iraq was, "WMD, period."

"Let's not rewrite history, its too soon for that," she said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS/01/18/rice.confirmation/index.html

Condi
That was 14 years ago. Lobbing of missiles into Israel was shown to be accidental & our ambassador okayed Saddam to go into Kuwait after Cheney's equipment slant-drilled into Iraq from Kuwait.

Senator Boxer has become our new and beloved Paul Wellstone. Than you Senator.
"Let's not rewrite history, its too soon for that," she said.

Saddam was no friend of Israel and we all welcome his departure but that is besides the point.
As Senator Boxer said Let's not rewrite history. Thank you Senator Boxer. You are our voice.

Does Bush have ADD?
Sure sounds like it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4740802,00.html

A different slant of the last election.

The Real Culture War

an article by David Brin, Ph.D.
Copyright © 2004. All rights reserved.

http://www.blogforarizona.com/
then select the anchor - David Brin, writes of the real culture war

What did JK substantively ask today, and how different, issues from Boxer?

Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., the unsuccessful 2004 Democratic presidential candidate, challenged Rice's claim that the right number of troops were in Iraq and criticized the administration's postwar policies.

"We do have some big tactical challenges to get to the strategic goals that we have," she replied. The course of U.S. policy on Iraq "was always going to have ups and downs," Rice said.

--Ups & downs? yeah, as Rumsfeld says, "War is untidy."

Poll on CNN:
Is Condoleezza Rice a good choice for Secretary of State?
You can probably figure out my response..

Transcript on Federal News Service site:
http://www.fnsg.com/

later try Congressional Record

& watch now at http://www.c-span.org

I think Condoleezza Rice is only a good Secretary of State if you believe in the Mission of People for a New American Century (global domination by the US) via endless war for profit.

Breaking News!

New petition from JK:

Mr. President, Stop Rewarding Incompetance

Fresh from the Daou Report comes word of a new petition at JohnKerry.com urging Bush to replace Rumsfeld. (Check the thread below about Rumsfeld not responding to Gold Star Families' request for a meeting.)

Link on Blog post - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=243

I just signed!

Rice is going to get the nomination. It is great that Dems are throwing some elbows. We have to let everyone know we are still around.

Posted by: Pamela at January 18, 2005 03:56 PM
I signed also.

This should be a thread topic so everyone can sign...

I stumbled upon this yesterday and forgot about it...
[snip]
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) said yesterday that Americans might need to "take some medicine" to fix Social Security, and said he would consider a plan being floated by the White House that would reduce scheduled benefits.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14274-2005Jan16.html

bob:

Isn't it convenient that we didn't hear about this medicine until after the elections. I don't recall Frist, Martinez, Specter, Thune or Mel Martinez mentioning a word about this medicine in October. Martinez especially should be directly asked if its OK with Floridians to lower their SS benefits. Its medicine that the RNC is welcome to swallow. Personally I hope they choke on it bob. Democrats should not budge one inch on this issue. Not one inch.

Frist: that he wants "everything pretty much on the table" as he begins talking to Democrats, including adjusting benefits to price inflation instead of wage inflation.

Sudedenly he Wants to Talk with Democrats. No thank you Senator. You lied to us about the Prescription Drug Bill. Fool Me Once...

National Headlines read: "Rice refuses to get pinned down on Withdrawl Timetable from Iraq"

Why aren't new people straight forward with us. with headlines that read "Rice Evasive on Iraq"?

instead its written as though Rice accomplished something today.

crony rice did accomplish something today. she sat there knowing the big job is hers and there ain't nothing we can do about it. hopefully the countries that are over W. will be over having her shoved down their throats. we may have thrown a few jabs, and i love babs boxer, but there better be some 'no' votes on her confirmation to make those elbow jabs worth making.

i should have finished that thought. no more i voted yes before i voted no. vote no, and then vote no again, and then vote no some more.

Posted by: Ira at January 18, 2005 04:31 PM
Ira,

Frist is nothing more then a gas bag. The desire to cooperate with those poor little Dems plays well whereverthehellheisfrom...
Dems have got the moral high ground on this and must not yield it.

I should have said "phony desire"
His folowers will say that is reasonable and we are being nasty....

*****NEW THREAD*****