The Tao of Politics, Chapter One

Matt:

This is a great article. I hinestly don't think I have ever seen such a good explanation of Deism and the Founding Fathers.

When I was refreshing my mind as to Judge Roy Moore, I stumbled upon his website, where it has the preamble to the Declaration of Independence with all the times the word God is used or referenced in bold text.

Nobody denies that the Founding Fathers believed in a God of some sort as you make quite plain in your article. But they were also astonishingly prescient about the troubles of making it godverment instead of government.

It still escapes me how Consitutional Scholars and strict constructionists can continue to get this wrong. It's like claiming that I think the country should be run by a sweater just because I happen to be wearing one everytime you see me talk about running the government.

Lexiconical nexis is not a basis for a Constitutional argument, no matter how you slice it.

Ah, this is just what this morning called for. :-)

This self-defined "American Taoist" (whatever that means!)thanks you, thanks you, thanks you for starting this morning, and this week, with such a grounding, thoughtful essay.

Good stuff - I like the sound of that alot better than what's coming out of Washington today.

"May the god of your choice bless you."
Kinky Friedman

Heck, I like the sound of that a lot better than what's coming out of Washington *every* day.

Err... Official Washington, I mean, as in da gubbamint... since technically speaking, this piece came out of Washington too... and the DCP in general... *ahem*

Tao! it's what's for breakfast,
Otter

Shiites want Islam as source of law
From correspondents in Najaf
February 07, 2005
IRAQ'S Shiite leader Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and another top cleric today staked out a radical demand that Islam be the sole source of legislation in the country's new constitution.

One cleric issued a statement setting out the position and the spiritual leader of Iraqi Shiites made it known straight away that he backed demands for the Koran to be the reference point for legislation.

The national assembly formed after last month's historic elections is to oversee the drawing up of the new constitution.

The role of Islam has been at the heart of months of debate between rival parties and factions as well as the US-led occupation authority that administered Iraq until last June.

Sistani leads the five most important clerics, known as marja al-taqlid, or sources of emulation, who had portrayed a more moderate stance going into the election.

The surprise statement was released by Sheikh Ibrahim Ibrahimi, a representative of Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Ishaq al-Fayad, another of the marja

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,12171827%255E1702,00.html

Kangaroo

Otter

When I used to live among farmers it was known as "goddamn Washington" and refers to the federal government, also known as "the feds."

Bravo Matt for discussing what spirituality in American politics was meant to be and reminding us that it's certainly not the variety that BushCo is dishing out.

Last night driving to a democracy cell get- together I heard the President of the Texas Freedom Network, Kathy Miller, talking to Robert Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio on their show, Ring of Fire, on Air America. TFN is a grassroots organization of mainstream community and religious leaders who are standing up to the conservative Christian agenda in Texas. She talked about their successes and about how her group was traveling around the country giving workshops on how to fight against the religious right, effectively. It sounded like a good resource for our democracy cells - particularly those in red states.

http://www.tfn.org/religiousright.htm

Bottom line - the religious right represents almost everything our Founding Fathers were against. They are a cynical group who use religion for political ends - and we need to band together with our allies in the fight against this hijacking of our heritage.

"May the god of your choice bless you."
Kinky Friedman

Posted by: madame defarge at February 6, 2005 10:34 AM

Good old Kinky. Is he really running for Governor of Texas? If so, I'll gladly contribute to his campaign.

Posted by: resolute at February 6, 2005 10:51 AM

He most definitely is... http://www.kinkyfriedman.com/

Kangaroo

Guardian version - wonder about implications of Shiite government - is Bush really going to be able to keep puppet Allawi? Wow .. I guess this is on the spirituality topic. The poor of Iraq have been in the south & they have not had representation but this will make more solidarity with Shiite fundamentalists in Iran & might rocket out of Bush's sphere of control!

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1406861,00.html

Yikes!

``It's not something we've done with a meat ax, nor are we suddenly turning our back on the most needy people in our society,'' Cheney told ``Fox News Sunday.''

(speaking of cutting Medicaid & over 150 other non-military programs)

U.S.-Israel scheme to strike Iranian nuclear facilities finalized
2/6/2005 4:00:00 PM
Experts from the Pentagon and Israel have put final touches to a plan to launch a military strike targeting Iran’s nuclear facilities, experts at the European Commission based in Brussels, revealed on Sunday.

http://www.aljazeera.com/

Kangaroo

Casey, resolute, et alia --

Mere minutes after reading Matt's Tao of Politics essay, I ran into this piece posted on the CBSNews.com site:

-------

OUR GODLESS CONSTITUTION
by Brooke Allen

It is hard to believe that George Bush has ever read the works of George Orwell, but he seems, somehow, to have grasped a few Orwellian precepts. The lesson the President has learned best -- and certainly the one that has been the most useful to him -- is the axiom that if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. One of his Administration's current favorites is the whopper about America having been founded on Christian principles. Our nation was founded not on Christian principles but on Enlightenment ones. God only entered the picture as a very minor player, and Jesus Christ was conspicuously absent.

Our Constitution makes no mention whatever of God. The omission was too obvious to have been anything but deliberate, in spite of Alexander Hamilton's flippant responses when asked about it: According to one account, he said that the new nation was not in need of "foreign aid"; according to another, he simply said "we forgot." But as Hamilton's biographer Ron Chernow points out, Hamilton never forgot anything important.

In the eighty-five essays that make up The Federalist, God is mentioned only twice (both times by Madison, who uses the word, as Gore Vidal has remarked, in the "only Heaven knows" sense). In the Declaration of Independence, He gets two brief nods: a reference to "the Laws of Nature and Nature's God," and the famous line about men being "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." More blatant official references to a deity date from long after the founding period: "In God We Trust" did not appear on our coinage until the Civil War, and "under God" was introduced into the Pledge of Allegiance during the McCarthy hysteria in 1954.

[snip]

The Founding Fathers were not religious men, and they fought hard to erect, in Thomas Jefferson's words, "a wall of separation between church and state." John Adams opined that if they were not restrained by legal measures, Puritans -- the fundamentalists of their day -- would "whip and crop, and pillory and roast." The historical epoch had afforded these men ample opportunity to observe the corruption to which established priesthoods were liable, as well as "the impious presumption of legislators and rulers," as Jefferson wrote, "civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time."

If we define a Christian as a person who believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, then it is safe to say that some of the key Founding Fathers were not Christians at all. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and Tom Paine were deists -- that is, they believed in one Supreme Being but rejected revelation and all the supernatural elements of the Christian Church; the word of the Creator, they believed, could best be read in Nature. John Adams was a professed liberal Unitarian, but he, too, in his private correspondence seems more deist than Christian.

[snip]

Of course all these men knew, as all modern presidential candidates know, that to admit to theological skepticism is political suicide. During Jefferson's presidency a friend observed him on his way to church, carrying a large prayer book. "You going to church, Mr. J," remarked the friend. "You do not believe a word in it." Jefferson didn't exactly deny the charge. "Sir," he replied, "no nation has ever yet existed or been governed without religion. Nor can be. The Christian religion is the best religion that has been given to man and I as chief Magistrate of this nation am bound to give it the sanction of my example. Good morning Sir."

Like Jefferson, every recent President has understood the necessity of at least paying lip service to the piety of most American voters. All of our leaders, Democrat and Republican, have attended church, and have made very sure they are seen to do so. But there is a difference between offering this gesture of respect for majority beliefs and manipulating and pandering to the bigotry, prejudice and millennial fantasies of Christian extremists. Though for public consumption the Founding Fathers identified themselves as Christians, they were, at least by today's standards, remarkably honest about their misgivings when it came to theological doctrine, and religion in general came very low on the list of their concerns and priorities -- always excepting, that is, their determination to keep the new nation free from bondage to its rule.

-------

What an interesting way to bookend a Sunday morning breakfast while reading about politics online!

Could this be mere coincidence? Or is it Deistically inspired synchronicity instead? Hmm... hmm... ommmmmmm...

give my regards to godway,
Otter

-------

(The Brooke Allen piece itself is a credited repost by CBS from 'The Nation' -- it can be read in its entirety at: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050221&s=allen )

(I know this is off-topic, but I wasn't sure where else to post this.)

Question for the DCP: what can we do about the problem of the press?
A Case Study: The Story of the Bulge

It's come to this: here I am, a self-described, moderate Democrat, passing around Conspiracy Theory stuff, which I received from another, very sane, very grounded, mainstream Democrat. Most of you know all about the Bulge, but this is a useful (if depressing) summary of the issues, especially as it relates to the cowardice of the press.

So my question for DCP readers is: What can we do to get the press to get its spine back and start practicing investigative journalism again?

Here are links to a web piece by Dave Lindorff
This
A. The website of the author:
http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/
B. The online "front page" of "Extra!", where Lindorff's story was published . Extra! is published (online and hard copy) by the organization, Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=4
C. Finally, the url to the article itself
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2012

In my opinion (and if memory serves), the author (and the editors who wrote the update at the end) didn't quite get the tailor's account right. But the overall whiff of editorial cowardice is instructive, and, to me, chilling. I keep thinking of my semester in the Soviet Union, where people in the know dismissed the official press as lies or (worse) beside the point (Pravda was then regularly used for toilet paper), and sought the real news either in "minor" stories buried in back pages of "minor" newspapers, or from foreign journalists. .. does that feel familiar?

Here's the title to the article (see url B or C for link to full text):
The Emperor's New Hump
By Dave Lindorff
Extra!

January - February 2005 Edition

The New York Times killed a story that could have changed the election - because it could have changed the election

DiAnne,

And these two headlines came up sequentially in today's N.Y. Times news feed also:

"Bush Is Said to Seek Sharp Cuts in Subsidy Payments to Farmers"

"In Montana, Bush Faces a Tough Sell on Social Security"

(Well, yeah, I should certainly think he would! *cough*)

Coincidence? Synchronicity? You make the call.

Especially since the next thing in my news queue was this:

"
(CBS/AP) The budget President Bush submits to Congress on Monday would slash grants to local law enforcement agencies and cut spending for environmental protection, American Indian schools and home-heating aid for the poor, The Associated Press reported Saturday.

"The details are the latest in a budget that will also seek savings from programs ranging from Amtrak and farmers' subsidies to Medicaid, the federal-state health program for the poor and disabled."

[snip]

Somehow it's not very satisfying to know that we had all predicted that exactly this would happen as soon as these pernicious people got safely started on their second term. "I told you so" has kind of a hollow ring to it under the circumstances.

I'd rather he be right than president,
Otter

MBK
Thanks. Someone just emailed me the long story about "the hump" and I had no link - now I do. It's an incredible story & incompehensible that W lost 3 debates & is still sitting where he is today. I never could figure out the photo Salon published where W was wearing "the box" under just a white t-shirt while wearing a cowboy hat & sitting in his truck. Medical or electronic communication device?

mbk,

I find that story, as Lindorff presented it there, to be no less credible than the stories that said that RoveCo planted fake documents in place of genuine ones in order to sabotage Dan Rather and CBS's legitimate coverage of not one but two very important but Bush-damaging stories -- you'll recall that because of the "Rathergate" furor, CBS news executives from an even more Bush-damaging one that had been scheduled to run the following week -- which is to say that I find that story, as you posted it here, to be entirely credible indeed.

Don't forget, it had also been reported by legitimate, well-known sources several weeks before the election that the Bush administration had ordered a "lockdown" on reporting any stories that could reflect badly on him.

It was reported at the time that this lockdown had been handed down from the highest levels of management at all of the major media and news providers; that their news departments had not only been forbidden to report such stories, but for the reporters even to discuss such stories amongst themselves; and that such a complete news lockdown was comparable only to those that had been ordered before major operations during World War II.

Does it sound to you like it would amount to criminally, heinously Machiavellian activities on the part of RoveCo and this administration to do such things? It does to me, too.

But does it seem impossible or even unlikely to you that RoveCo and this administration would have the excessive power and the unscrupulous ethics it would require to do such things?

Nope. Me, neither.

"conspiracy theorists" my asterisk,
Otter

Dang! I *hate* it when I hit 'Post' instead of 'Preview' like that...

Please replace and insert "-- you'll recall that because of the "Rathergate" furor, CBS news executives were then forced to back away from an even bigger story that they had scheduled to run the following week --" into the first paragaph of my previous post above. Thank you.

tpyos 'r' us,
Otter

Otter,

Please doon't misunderstand my attempts to be cute. I'm with you: I find all of this stuff toally credible. RoveCo is on the bottom rung of humanity, and the fingerprints of its M.O. are all over these events. I've been in absolute despair that so much of the press and so many of our fellow citizens have chosen to ignore these problems, or not to see them, or (worst of all) decide that they're not important.

Truth-telling is the lynchpin of democracy. Right now, that lynchpin is in hiding.

Otter

None of the above makes Bush show up for anything other than dental checkups during the period in question, nor does it make him capable of extemporaneous speech with or without the device.

& consider that Rovian propaganda reaches mostly Americans (though Murdoch's buying satellites in South America & Asia & has holdings in Europe).

I think there are two problem groups -

those who believe the false news

those who ignore the news entirely

Very good essay explaining something few of the right-wingnuts have every bothered to find out: the Founding Fathers weren't "Christians" as understood today with a belief in Jesus... they believed in God as they understood Her or Him (or whatever It is) - more than any concept of Jesus as we hear about from 'Christian' theologians today, and although God was referenced at times in those days, Jesus was not. I suspect, however, that the Founding Fathers had a better understanding of history than we do today since their recent ancestors had come to this country for capital gain and to escape religion forced upon them by their government, and to be able to worship (or not) as they saw fit. That is certainly what I've found out through doing genealogy research on my own family.

Or, maybe to put it into context, forcing religion on people is just as dumb an idea as forcing democracy on people....

Besides the obvious lack of educational funding, our schools are failing our students by not teaching kids the history of our own country, from several perspectives (the bad as well as the good!).

[Where were these religious environmentalists BEFORE the election?!? Why didn't they seek publicity for this BEFORE the election or at any time in the years leading up to the 2004 election?!? They're a *little* late in getting any notice for wanting to rein in BushCo at this stage..... the places that were protected from drilling for oil have already been opened up to his corporate cronies for drilling and exploration for oil.... Getting publicity now, only AFTER this administration is back in office - with the help of the religious right-wingnuts - is the height of hypocrisy.... I looked for a way to email the author of this short piece, but didn't find any link or email address on the web page.]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1499-2005Feb5.html?nav=rss_politics

'God's Mandate': Putting The White House on Notice

Sunday, February 6, 2005; Page A16

Frustration with the Bush administration's environmental polices is bubbling up from mainstream churches and synagogues, as reflected in a statement signed recently by more than 1,000 clergy and congregational leaders in about 35 states.

Called "God's Mandate: Care for Creation," the statement says that "there was no mandate, no majority, or no 'values' message in this past election for the President or the Congress to rollback and oppose programs that care for God's creation."

Analyses of the November election have found that President Bush's victory owed much not only to strong support from white evangelicals, but also to gains in support from conservative Catholics, mainstream Protestants and Jews.

In a conference call last month, some Catholic, Protestant and Jewish leaders came up with the idea of a strong statement on the environment to warn the White House and Republicans in Congress that there are limits to the support they can expect from the religious community, according to Paul Gorman, executive director of the National Religious Partnership for the Environment, an alliance of Catholic, Protestant, evangelical and Jewish organizations.

"People of faith are deeply and religiously alarmed," Gorman said.

The statement objects to Bush's policies on global warming, toxic emissions from coal-fired power plants and lack of emphasis on conservation. The National Council of Churches is circulating the statement to 250,000 clergy and lay leaders across the country.

-- Blaine Harden

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Vets for Peace:

School Halts Adopt a Sniper Fund-Raiser

CHICAGO - A U.S. university in Wisconsin has blocked an attempt by Republican students to raise money for a group called "Adopt a
Sniper" that raises money for U.S. sharp-shootersin Iraq and Afghanistan.

The students were selling bracelets bearing the motto "1 Shot 1 Kill No Remorse I Decide."

"Clearly the rhetoric of that organization raised some questions and we had some strong objections as a Jesuit university," Marquette University school spokeswoman Brigid O'Brien said on Thursday.

The students, representing a group called College Republicans, originally got permission to set up a table at the student union to raise money for U.S. troops in Iraq.

But they chose to promote a group called Adopt a Sniper, which says on its Web site it supports snipers deployed by the United States armed forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. The group says it "helps real snipers get the real gear they need to help keep us safe."

The brainchild of a Texas police SWAT officer Adopt a Sniper (www.adoptasniper.org) has raised thousands of dollars in cash and gear to supplement the kit of sharp shooters in U.S. combat platoons.

Among products sold on the site is a $15 coin with the imprinted phrase "Assistance From A Distance."

Incredibly bad karma.

This is the master group. Sick mentality.

http://americansnipers.org/

I also got a pasteup from my brother which was sent out to a whole bunch of white male union members in Colorado - called "Don't Mix Steroids with Viagra" (photo of guy who had used both to excess) - pretty good entertainment for a bunch of straight guys to send around to each other.

Amazing. & today they have the SuperBowl - watch for expensive truck ads. & I heard Republicans are passing out flyers r/t privatizing Social Security there.

I think there are two problem groups -
those who believe the false news
those who ignore the news entirely
Posted by: DiAnne at February 6, 2005 12:35 PM

Dianne--I agree 100%.

Contact us:
FRAMING For KJ. They just had a framing working yesterday, and might be worth looking into, if you haven't.

PO Box 35711
Kansas City, MO
64134
816.289.5932
info@midwestvalues.org
www.midwestvalues.org

Circulating our cell:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/06/international/middleeast/06shiites.html?oref=login&th Oh Boy! JustwhatShrubwanted.....not! AC

It's a 3 pager - comprehensive - implications for our future in Iraq & around the region!

Greetings DCP,

Ron Chusid posted these late last night... both worth a read!

John Kerry interviewed by Boston Globe
6 February 2005

The Boston Globe has an interview with John Kerry. Some highlights:

Despite the contentious nature of the campaign, Kerry expressed no resentment toward the president, but revealed a simmering bitterness toward some of the president's staunch backers. Kerry demanded that the swift boat veterans who had criticized his military record agree to open up their own files because he knows ''one guy was busted" and another ''has a letter of reprimand."

He also expressed frustration over surveys showing he lost to Bush among Catholic voters, a problem Kerry promised to address by pursuing an agenda that reflects ''the whole cloth" of Catholic teachings, not just abortion.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=327

Bush, Failing to Appreciate Free Markets, is Capitalist in Name Only
6 February 2005

This was actually published as an op-ed piece by Robert Wright last week, but I missed it until today. Here's the highlights:

Mr. Bush has too little hope, and too little faith. He underestimates the impetus behind freedom and so doesn't see how powerfully it imparts a "visible direction" to history. This lack of faith helps explain some of his biggest foreign policy failures and suggests that there are more to come.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=328

Bottom line - the religious right represents almost everything our Founding Fathers were against. They are a cynical group who use religion for political ends - and we need to band together with our allies in the fight against this hijacking of our heritage.

Posted by: resolute at February 6, 2005 10:50 AM

Again, I would argue that the Republicans are a cynical group who use the most prevalent religion in America for their political ends.

It is the greedy power mongers that covertly manipulate many well intentioned people of faith to attain their own sinister goals.

The lumping of all Evangelicals or all Christians into a label of "The Religious Right" is not accurate, nor fair. How can we distinguish between people who respect individual freedom yet practice their religion of choice from those who use and abuse religion to gain and maintain control? I do not believe they are one and the same.

Labeling all people of the religion of Christianity as the "Religious Right" is no more fair than labeling all people of the Muslim Religion "Ragheads", or all Democrats as "Baby Killers" or "Lazy Welfare Recipients".

That being said, I set out to have lunch with some Christians who defiantly read a letter to the congregation today from a pastor who expounded upon "values and morals" in a state senate prayer and had many people walk out on him in protest. The object of the letter was to tell the congregation today that this same pastor received over 5000 calls from people supporting his prayer and only 45 calls from people opposing it. I managed to make it through the hymns, but lunch today is going to be a strain. They can't see yet the dangers of mixing religion and state.

My God (or whatever you want to call Him) we have got to have people come together on common ground, not use labels.

We don't need a civil war over labels when we share common values and morals.

And the day is still young.

Posted by: Marjorie G at February 6, 2005 01:10 PM

Marjorie

Speaking of framing, there is a project called the Principles Project working on this also. people can particpate online - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=323

It's an interesting project which involves some Kerry people.

This is on the same vane as an earlier post about evangelicals becoming more environmentally aware..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1491-2005Feb5.html?referrer=email

[snip]
There is growing evidence -- in polling and in public statements of church leaders -- that evangelicals are beginning to go for the green. Despite wariness toward mainstream environmental groups, a growing number of evangelicals view stewardship of the environment as a responsibility mandated by God in the Bible.

"The environment is a values issue," said the Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the 30 million-member National Association of Evangelicals. "There are significant and compelling theological reasons why it should be a banner issue for the Christian right."

I know everyone has been waiting for this..
Benson on the Social Security crisis..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/benson/

DID YOU KNOW?
since 1967, when Israel occupied the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, over 11,000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed and over 70,000 people have been left homeless and destitute1
almost 1,700 "illegal" Palestinian homes were demolished by court order during the course of the Oslo "peace process"1
since the occupation of East Jerusalem in 1967, 70,000 government sponsored housing units have been built for Israelis but none have been built for Palestinians2
almost 1,700 "illegal" Palestinian homes were demolished by court order during the course of the Oslo "peace process"1

thousands of demolition orders remain outstanding1

during 2003 more than 180 shops and houses were demolished in the border village of Nazlat Issa, one of the few places where Israelis and Palestinians shopped together1

DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THIS?
DO YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHY IT HAPPENS AND WHAT CAN BE DONE?

THEN ENTER THE ICAHD UK WEBSITE BY CLICKING ON OUR LOGO

http://www.icahduk.org/

Kangaroo

Frustration with the Bush administration's environmental polices is bubbling up from mainstream churches and synagogues, as reflected in a statement signed recently by more than 1,000 clergy and congregational leaders in about 35 states.

Called "God's Mandate: Care for Creation," the statement says that "there was no mandate, no majority, or no 'values' message in this past election for the President or the Congress to rollback and oppose programs that care for God's creation."

Bit late to start caring now, where the hell were they before the election, most of them voting the moron into power. Now they are stuck with the consequences for the next 4 yrs, you get what you vote for if they didnt know, problem is so does everybody else.

Kangaroo

I think there are two problem groups -

those who believe the false news

those who ignore the news entirely

Posted by: DiAnne at February 6, 2005 12:35 PM

Couldn't have said it better myself, you are spot on DiAnne.

Interesting timing, given the topic. This article was posted in today's N.Y. Times online edition:

-------

PAPER SETS OFF A DEBATE ON ENVIRONMENTALISM'S FUTURE

MIDDLEBURY, Vt. - The leaders of the environmental movement were livid last fall when Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus, two little-known, earnest environmentalists in their 30's, presented a 12,000-word thesis arguing that environmentalism was dead.

It did not help that the pair first distributed their paper, "The Death of Environmentalism," at the annual meeting of deep-pocketed foundation executives who underwrite the environmental establishment. But few outside the movement's inner councils paid much attention at first.

Then came the November election, into which groups like the Sierra Club and the League of Conservation Voters poured at least $15 million, much of it to defeat President Bush, whose support for oil drilling and logging, and opposition to regulating greenhouse gases have made him anathema to environmental groups. Instead, Mr. Bush and Congressional champions of his agenda cemented their control in Washington at a time when battles loom over clean air and oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Now a debate about the future of environmentalism is ricocheting around the Internet about the authors' notion of, in Mr. Shellenberger's words, "abolishing the category" of environmentalism and embracing a wider spectrum of liberal issues to "release the power of progressivism." Carl Pope, executive director of the Sierra Club, began things in the fall with a bristling 6,000-word denunciation of Mr. Shellenberger's and Mr. Nordhaus's paper. An online magazine, Grist.org, has started a forum to debate their ideas and their assertions that environmentalism has become "just another special interest."

[snip]

-------

(Read the article in its entirety here:
http://tinyurl.com/5nv2o )

stay clean - think green,
Otter

Wow! Talk about framing the debate!

"We believe in hope over despair, we believe in possibilities over problems, we believe in optimism over cynicism. We believe in doing what's right even when others say it can't be done. And we believe in fighting desperately for those who have no voice in America."

Pop quiz time, kids: who said that, and where, and when?

(Pamela, don't even bother, you've already passed.)

we're not dead yet!,
Otter

Welcome to the I got mine society..

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0206valdez0206.html

otter,
Sounds like little John making a speech at the the Democratic Convention on July 28th..

b-bob,

close, but no cigar.

:0)

Wallis talks about the conservative movement addressing issues other then gays and abortion. Wallis states that if conservatives want to talk about family values then they have to discuss issues that affect families. This leads right in to environment, health care, jobs, etc…the issues we talk about.
Wallis thinks that a dialog of common issues will bring us closer together and where there really are more issues that unite us then divide us. My opinion is if this ever happens in earnest, then BushCo is doomed because he can only flourish where there is strife.

I see Pamela has linked to a couple of the recent posts on Light Up the Darkness.

Some other recent posts:

All Good Things...
Comments on the end of Star Trek, including the liberal values it presented
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=325

Kerry Volunteers at the Boston Weston
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=324

Bush's cuts on heatlh care--including bioterrorism. Also comment on his support for abstincence based programs despite evidence they don't work, and his statement in SOTU of cutting funding to programs which waste money
http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?view=plink&id=322

If budgets are indeed moral documents then Bush has to be called immoral for all the pain that is and will be inflicted on the poor. A budget illustrates the priorities of the budget maker. If Bush was truly a compassionate person, he would not try to balance the budget on the backs of the poor (like Reagan). Moderate Republician congress people and some large conservative groups are looking at the damage his budget will do to those who have the least and are concerned. We must make this a moral issue and pound Bush like a drum over this. How can he begin to use the word compassionate when he shows the exact opposite in his budget?
How can our Democratic congress people approve of a budget that does this? When it comes before a vote, all Democrats must say no. Bush may decide to shut down the government like Clinton did; but with a war on, it is not likely. Besides, we will be protesting the treatment of those that have the least. This is a moral issue we can win.

Not that we need more convincing that this administration's plans for Social Security are out of line...

Read the Fine Print
The more we learn, the worse it gets.
--snip--
For instance, Mr. Bush said, "Personal accounts are a better deal," because "your money will grow, over time, at a greater rate than anything the current system can deliver." But the privatized system actually contains hidden costs that could leave retirees with less. Your Social Security benefit would be reduced, dollar for dollar, by the amount of money you deposit into your private account and an additional charge amounting to 3 percent plus the rate of inflation. All the money that is drained off would presumably go to pay for the enormous upfront government borrowing - $4.5 trillion over the next 20 years - that privatization would require.

That means people whose private accounts steadily earned three percentage points over inflation throughout their working lives would wind up with exactly what they would have gotten if Social Security remained untouched. Anyone who earned less than that would end up with less than is offered by the current system. When asked what would happen to the people who would not have enough income to avoid poverty, the administration official said, "I'm not sure if I'm understanding your question."
--snip--
Neither the president nor his aides have been willing to acknowledge the extent of benefit cuts that would be needed. And no wonder: All in all, they would leave the average worker with a government benefit worth only about 10 percent of his or her preretirement earnings. (Currently, Social Security replaces about 35 percent, on average.)
--snip--
And the much-touted promise that the private accounts could be passed on to one's heirs, as it turns out, is also less than it seems. That works entirely only if you die before you retire. Under a scheme that is going to take a while for the public to digest, the White House wants to require new retirees to use their private accounts to buy annuities large enough to keep them above the poverty line for the rest of their lives. The most they could leave to heirs, then, would be what is left over after the annuities are purchased.

Read the whole editorial at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/06/opinion/6sun1.html

Besides, we will be protesting the treatment of those that have the least. This is a moral issue we can win.

Posted by: battlebob at February 6, 2005 04:35 PM

Thanks for the good news about Wallis, BB. I needed that. I've had a HELL of a day!

Somebody better tell Joe Biden and Joe Lieberman it's okay to vote for OUR moral values of taking care "of the least of" us. Lieberman can stop making out with Bush now, and Biden can decide which side of the fence he is on and stop grandstanding long enough to vote compassionately
to help his fellow man.

Can't they? Maybe we better get back on the phone and back at our letter writing. Those guys and a few others better get a grip before their weaknesses come back to bite them in the butt.

Bush, Failing to Appreciate Free Markets, is Capitalist in Name Only
6 February 2005

Posted by: Pamela at February 6, 2005 02:18 PM

Thanks, Pamela- I seem to always find myself having the "free market agrument" with repugs.

...on another note, today is my birthday and my friends got me tickets to Boston this spring! =)

Posted by: battlebob at February 6, 2005 04:35 PM

Battlebob,

What the President recommends in his budget submission will undergo a lot of changes by congressional committees. For a good discussion on the budget process, check out:

http://www.cbpp.org/3-7-03bud.htm

Native,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

I have been firing off daily emails to all Dem Senators who voted for Rice and Gonzales. I want to know why they support them. Maybe there is a compelling reason that none of us thought about? I doubt it but I want to allow that none of us knows everything and maybe, just maybe there is a valid reason. So far, none of them have responded. I think we need a constant barrage of pressure on those with little strength. Maybe, we will sway Dems in future votes not to ignore their populace?

Those that have been coming out against Bush's Soc Sec plan have been getting emails expressing my thanks. If we are going to pound them when we disagree, we must praise and support them when we agree.

Bush did not help me one bit. We owe $2600 on taxes again this year & a $44 penalty for underpayment even though our employers are taking out the max.

I'm going to send the info on Christians & the environment to a friend who is arguing with his sister - she claims you can disagree with Bush on the environment & still support him. We don't agree - the environment is all we have left - it's not replaceable. It's also our health & our children's future.

Bob Evans
This is true, but we must keep pressure on those that make the choices. For instance, Reagan did enormous harm to the poor because he was able to convince congress it was in their best interests to do so.

From your link..

Changes to “mandatory” or “entitlement” programs
“Similarly, the President could propose a reduction in Medicaid payments to states, which would lead to lower costs than projected under current law.”

This is what is likely to happen which will devastate the states as this pays the medical costs for uninsured people. Many states like Arizona are capitated which means when the money is gone, too bad. This will make the money disappear sooner as more people need fewer available resources.

I image most other social programs fall under HHS funding. Having dealt with this black hole before, a simple reduction or small increase in funding will seriously impact the growing numbers of needy people.

The president’s faith-based initiative money is facing cutbacks and is forcing social organizations to cut back. This is from a discussion with a conservative service provider who admits they cannot meet demand under Bush proposals.

So we may as well get our demands into Democrat and moderate Republican congress people. What is interesting is some of the conservative voices are chiming in about fairness. Maybe Bush will unite us after all?

The lumping of all Evangelicals or all Christians into a label of "The Religious Right" is not accurate, nor fair.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at February 6, 2005 02:21 PM

Truth,

The Religious Right is the Religious Right. And they are proud of it.

No one is labeling all Christians and Evangelicals the Religious Right. I happen to be a proud Episcopalian, myself. But Jerry Falwell and his ilk are people who are wolves in sheeps' clothing. I don't consider them true Christians - true Christians don't advocate cutting funding for child health coverage or funding for WICK or funding for affordable housing - their agenda is to further their conservative political goals.

And personally, I don't think mainstream Christians are offended by references to the Religious Right - they know who they are and, thank God, they are beginning to be more vocal with their disapproval.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!

Posted by: Bob Evans at February 6, 2005 05:32 PM

Thank you, Bob! =)

...by the way, did anyone catch John Edwards's speech last night? I taped it and watched it just now- thought it was very good.

NativeTexan4Kerry

happy birthday...

Do you feel another year older or just more experienced?

Watch out for the candles on the cake...don't want to set off the smoke alarm..

Time:

25 Top Evangelicals:

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050207/photoessay

other articles of interest here, such as on Dems/Hillary etc. but mostly the bizarre intersection between extremist religion & partisan politics in this country right now

lol thanks, battlebob. my cake has a W crossed out on it. ...courtesy of my mom... ;-P

Native Texan for Kerry

Happy Birthday! & "right on" to your Mom!
Speaking of Moms:

My mom in Jamestown ND called this morning - she had to go the the Emergency Room because my sister had some problem - she was waiting with other patients. Another grandma & her started talking about grandkids & my mom said that my son was graduating from college soon. The other grandma asked, "in what field?" When my mom said, "Political science," the other grandma asked, "& what is he going to do with that?!"
My mom said, "Get rid of Bush." Stony silence.

Thanks, DiAnne! hope your sister is okay, and "right on" to YOUR mom, too! ;-)

my cake has a W crossed out on it. ...courtesy of my mom... ;-P

Posted by: NativeTexan4Kerry at February 6, 2005 06:36 PM

Love it..your mom is really cool!

Cellmate:

I can’t take this! Every day there is some new draconian law being submitted to Congress, or policy being implemented or statement issued by the Bush mob. Signs of fascism are everywhere. We need to rise up, it is our only hope. Why are the masses still so blind or apathetic?

WE NEED TO KEEP GIVING EACH OTHER HOPE!!

My mom said, "Get rid of Bush." Stony silence.

Posted by: DiAnne at February 6, 2005 06:43 PM

Your mom is terrific!

I was at a meeting in Westchester County, New York, with members of a local Dem party. The women I met were wonderful...life-long warriors. For years they would go to the local Planned Parenthood to escort and protect those seeking services - early in the morning before work - in the evening after work - (those who didn't work, all day, every day). Or protesting the polution in the Hudson. Or protesting the nuclear powerplants. These folks have been at it for decades and have no thought of stopping now.

I was truly inspired by their courage, dedication and longevity. Things are bad and they may get worse but we all know we must continue on - there is no surrender.

Wallis has an interesting take of the anger and resentment we all have against BushCo. He talks about the Book of Revelations where the Beast was destroyed. The beast was Rome or Pax Romana. He moves the discussion into this time where we have Pax America acting with the same arrogance and abuse of power. His story has Pax America dieing as the locals revolt to slay the Beast. Hopefully it is not as violent and BushCo gets their just rewards.

"We believe in hope over despair, we believe in possibilities over problems, we believe in optimism over cynicism. We believe in doing what's right even when others say it can't be done. And we believe in fighting desperately for those who have no voice in America."

Pop quiz time, kids: who said that, and where, and when?

Posted by: Otter at February 6, 2005 03:17 PM

~otter, just getting around to reading today's thread...did anyone answer your challenge yet?
Courtesy of Cspan & WaPost:

John Edwards, in NH last night :)

Democrats, he said, do not need to change their positions to become competitive again. "I just think that trying to figure out how to change our position a little bit on this and a little bit on that is dead wrong," he said. "We ought to stand up for what we believe in, we ought to make clear the country knows what we believe in and what it is we want to do, from Day One."

That theme dominated his speech Saturday evening. "All the political experts since the election have been talking about what the Democrats believe in. . . . Some of them have been saying we don't stand for anything," he said, adding, "We believe in hope over despair, we believe in possibilities over problems, we believe in optimism over cynicism. We believe in doing what's right even when others say it can't be done. And we believe in fighting desperately for those who have no voice in America."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1494-2005Feb5.html

Bush Seeks Cuts in Law Enforcement
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/020605D.shtml

Farmers and the Poor Hit Hard by Bush Budget
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/020605Y.shtml

Also, Bev Harris is supposed to be at the Seattle Dem MeetUp Tuesday night & may do a workshop & also a Town Hall appearance (in the works)

I wonder how the rural right feels about the loss of farm subsidy's?

They can now enjoy the fruits of voting for Bush!

resolute, I went to the recount debate in DC with some long-timers from Westchester. They are a committed bunch.

~Excellent article~~

Modern retirement
The nation is quietly drifting toward a time when retirees will have to fend for themselves.

February 6, 2005

The dream of a comfortable retirement is taking a beating these days.

The modern American expectation that years of toil will be followed by years of leisure, with regular checks arriving in the mailbox while the retiree is out putting on a sunny back nine, is becoming more and more elusive. It will still play out that way for the affluent. But for many middle and lower income workers, like the tramp in the picture, a sea change in the way retirement income is generated is putting that dream at risk.

The nation is quietly drifting toward a time when retirees will have to fend for themselves without traditional, reliable monthly pension benefits. That may be consistent with President George W. Bush's notion of an "ownership society."
continue~
http://tinyurl.com/3k4m4

And personally, I don't think mainstream Christians are offended by references to the Religious Right - they know who they are and, thank God, they are beginning to be more vocal with their disapproval.

Posted by: resolute at February 6, 2005 05:59 PM

Resolute,

Thank you for your explanation. I see now you are referring to the people within the religion
who are abusing it. I am referring to the people within the religion who are being used. I reacted to my meaning of the term, not yours. I am trying to not react and get defensive when I read or hear the term "Religious Right". It evokes strong feelings in me for many reasons, one because I am emerging from an identity steeped in the term, and have SOME (lol) conflict over where it all fits now that I see the reality of what is going on in America. The other is that I have deep relationships with some who are playing into the hands of RoveCo. and the Jerry Falwells. I have conflicted feelings of caring deeply for them and being angry with them at the same time.

You guys sure you want me to refer more Evangelicals to this site? (Don't answer that right now.) I am good practice, that is certain.

Right now I am thinking it would have felt good to get up and kick the pastor in the shins this morning.

It would be easier to not give a FLOCK.

I thought the Boston Globe article on JK was very fair, although I don't understand the obsession with JK signing the 180 release form. Big deal. The election is over and certainly, as a whole, Mass residents don't give a hoot. The media is far more obsessed with the SwiftSlime than most Americans. Other than that, it's a good article.

DiAnne,

I loved the comment your mom made "Get rid of Bush." Stoney silence. That is so funny!
She sounds like quite a gal. Don't know where her daughter gets it.

BattleBob,

The one study I did in Revelations did not show the United States being around for the big last battle. (Course I know that book is controversial and hard to understand and explain.)
The Wallis book sounds real good. What is it's title?

BB, I am trying to do some research on Wallis, because I would really like to be part of his community, but will not do so unless I find out and feel comfortable with his positions on a few issues. I have written two letters asking for a little more information about him but have not received a reply. I plan on being persistent.
I would like a reply so I can hop in and be part of his Sojourners if I am okay with a few things.
Do you have ANY other source I could use to research him better?

I went to a bible college in Pensacola, Florida two years ago and hadn't done enough research into the people who ran the school. I got there and was very disappointed, as they were preaching what we call "Grab it and Blab it", how to get wealthy by believing you can. I was outa there in less than three weeks. Now I am determined to research anyone I want to join with or follow.
Got any ideas?

FD

The 180 form is left over from the recent MTP, and frankly, I'd love to see the hot shots O'Neill and Hoffman get theirs.

A lot easier to talk swift slime than JK's recent trip to Europe, or any important issue.

Truth Shall Prevail

I got on Jim Wallis' mailing list before the Iraq war.
He was featured on the PBS series about Bush & his religion.
You can probably even just "Google" him and maybe add the word "biography" or something & find out quite alot.

This afternoon, people I know were concerned about the similarities with what is going on in the US & fascism. I did alot of internet research & concluded that the battle between fascism & democracy has been going on in America ever since the Pledge of Allegiance started in the late 1850s.

I found photos in the late 1920s of the Ku Klux Klan rallies including one in Washington DC where 440,000 members showed up! Lynchings, internment camps, the McCarthy era, a high budget film that was white-power oriented, references to "Aryans" here in America & much more. Mussolini was rather admired in this country. The period after WW2 was considered especially ripe for development of fascist ideas in America. It was not called fascism & Americans were taught that both Communists and Fascists were Godless, but Fascists weren't - they had poor separation of church & state, & served the corporation.

I found comparisons of major corporation's earning before and after World War I and it could have been Hailiburton & similar countries today. I tried to stay away from overt conspiracy things like New World Order but that fits strangely with Globalization and I do agree with Robert F Kennedy Jr that both parties are far too much influenced by K Street & lobbyists & corporate donors.

Thinking about Dean & the DNC, thinking about Edwards & his website & speeches & climbing profile, Kerry & his political action group, speculation by Rangel today that HIllary could run. I tihnk there is some positioning for 2006 and 2008 but I also think there is right now some Democrat/liberal/progressive & also nonevangelical/nonrightwing Christian "backlash" to what Bush is doing & that will result in some organization.

There was a strong move to get Kerry elected but it was not really possible to tell before the election exactly what would have been needed to focus on. Somewhere today I saw an incredible article about how the Republicans used the media & I was especially interested to see that someone agree with me that Gulf War I was the beginning of extreme government propaganda as regards American foreign policy. That's when & why I quit watching tv but it was amazing to have it validated - it wasn't my imagination.

BuzzFlash and Common Ground & some of those sites have reprinted some stuff about fascism & America written by a guy right after WW2 that was very prophetic & warned about what we're seeing now. Looks to me like it's been on on-going threat and from the inside, not just the outside - that's not the way we've been played though - we were taught to look for a bogeyman such as Commies or terrorists. & we should never vote against our own interest!

Also had cause to meditate on sorry aspects of our history. Lynn Cheney had books banned which concentrated on the less than heroic side of our history. That form of censorship is part of the "fascism" picture. & now "ownership" encourages us to send money directly into corporations. Who wants to own part of a killer corporation & come out a few dollars ahead - maybe.

Wow - but it's not a new struggle. Not at all. & I don't think people will ever be able to relax their vigilance because those dark forces are always out there, fueled by greed. Rich greedy capitalists starve others but middle class apathetic people also go on watching football and buying SUVs while ignoring Abu Graib. I read about an elderly Jewish couple who had always wondered how the Germans could ignore what the Nazis among them were doing. Living in California now & watching what has happened lately, they said that they thought now they possibly understand how it happened.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at February 6, 2005 09:51 PM
I am sure you have the Sojourners site: www.sojo.net
Also, his campaign ot remove poverty:
www.calltorenewal.com

I have been subscribing to Sojourners magazine for about a year but have been reading the magazine for several years. One of my brothers participated in a poverty awareness gathering with Wallis in Chicago.

Once upon a time I wanted to be a Lutheran Minister after I became a EE. I gave up that idea after my useless military experience and was down on religion for many years. Wallis keeps rekindling the old flames to get involved again. Reading his books have become a very important part of my life.

Marjorie-
Yeah, I know it's left over from MTP, but I thought it was pretty settled on there. You're right, I would have loved to learn more details about his visits to the Mid East and Europe. Oh well.

Truth Shall Prevail -
Prosperity ministries were all the rage a few years ago. It's the oddest of the religious phenoms, but it definitely was one. "You deserve that brand new Mercedes because you prayed for it" was something I wasn't comfortable with at all. Mixing church with capitalism and materialism was just plain blechy to me!

~Newsweek article on John Edwards~~

Staying in the Game
One day, he lost the election. The next, he found out his wife had cancer. John Edwards is hanging tough
snip~
He and John Kerry, who lives just one block over in Georgetown, have so far stayed in closer touch than many had assumed the former and perhaps future rivals would. "We talk all the time, and Jack and Emma Claire were over there yesterday afternoon'' with Kerry's wife, Teresa, "and came home with half a pound cake.'' On the subject of how their party should proceed, he says, "Stand up for what we believe in! The last thing we need is strategic maneuvering. I'm going to work in poverty because I care about it''—a point he hit hard in a speech in New Hampshire Saturday night. Asked what lessons could be drawn from the '04 campaign, he says that if others want to spend time mulling them, "they're welcome to do that, but it's not what I'm going to do.''
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6920209/site/newsweek/

It would be easier to not give a FLOCK.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at February 6, 2005 09:29 PM

(LOL) I feel like we're corrupting you.

You must know just how valuable your insights and perspective are to us! But I do feel strongly that we must all make a point of separating out those who use religion cynically to make money or advance a radical conservative political agenda - from those who truly live their lives on religious or spiritual terms (like Sister Chittister)

http://nationalcatholicreporter.org/fwis/fwis010605.htm

I am so glad that more and more clergy are standing up for the poor and homeless, and are questioning the conservative agenda and its impact on those in our society who are powerless to protect themselves.

This country was founded on the principles of religious tolerance and separation of church and state. Many of our eastern states were settled by folks looking for religious freedom and tolerance - and BushCo has turned those principles on their ear. Every thing Bush does that's related to religion is planned out and cynical - with the purpose of inferring that he is the chosen one or taking the path the Lord tells him to take. I thought the crucifixes on his "pulpit" at the convention was appalling - but apparently sent an important message to some of his followers.

Truth Shall Prevail -
Prosperity ministries were all the rage a few years ago. It's the oddest of the religious phenoms, but it definitely was one. "You deserve that brand new Mercedes because you prayed for it" was something I wasn't comfortable with at all. Mixing church with capitalism and materialism was just plain blechy to me!

Posted by: florida dem at February 6, 2005 10:35 PM

Florida Dem,
R U in Pensacola?

Have you ever heard of Christian Harfouche Ministries?

I thought the crucifixes on his "pulpit" at the convention was appalling - but apparently sent an important message to some of his followers.

Posted by: resolute at February 6, 2005 10:39 PM

I never saw the crosses on his podium, but I heard about them. Nothing surprises me. I just don't think anybody could be so dumb and to do the things he does that are counterproductive to American's. I think he's a smart guy whose kind of a dumb A$$, who HAS to know the negative effects his decisions have had on people's lives.

Truth -
Nope I'm in Central Florida so I am not familiar with Christian Harfouche Ministries.

BTW...
The JE article was a nice read. I'm glad that the Kerry and the Edwards' families are staying in touch. Isn't that like Teresa to send the kids home with cake? Too cute.

Living in California now & watching what has happened lately, they said that they thought now they possibly understand how it happened.

Posted by: DiAnne at February 6, 2005 10:19 PM

Yes, DiAnne. That's perhaps the most frightening thing. I was an exchange student to Germany my senior year of high school and spent a lot of time talking to people about the period between the two world wars and how ordinary Germans could have allowed the rise of fascism. The older generation defended it - inflation, chaos, unfair treatment after WWI. All justified. The younger generation were very ashamed at what their parents had allowed to happen. It terrifies me that a generation from now our children will be wondering how we could have let BushCo and his 30 years of war happen.

Religion.
I was raised a very liberal Methodist in South Dakota, in fact, church camp is where I was exposed to anti Vietnam war, anti death penalty thought & so on.

By now I'm more of a Buddhist than anything & have been wearing a golden Kwan Yin around my neck for 8 years, but I feel a close kinship to the liberal Christians who come to the peace rallies, who guarded the mosque here when a guy tried to torch it with gasoline. We share so many values. I have also run into Sisters from the nonprofit Catholic hospital I work at. I once shared an office with a Jesuit Priest & he taught me alot.

I believe it's possible to be highly moral and spiritual without having a specific religion - I believe that some people accomplish that. I also believe there are some who are devoutly into what they're into religion wise but indulge in all manner of hypocrisy, blasphemy & antithesis of example of Christ.

& I really do believe in separation of Church and State, in fact I believe that is sacred.

I appreciated the topic of the founding fathers & religion - reminded me of the Transcendentalists. It's nice to learn something.

There are 340,000 images of Christ on the internet & in the very first image, he's holding up Mentos candy!

I remember reading this after the election & it made me feel better

"Don't Blame the Bible Thumpers" - written by a Professor of Religous Studies

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1105-29.htm

For many years I was a humanist and did essentially what I do know because it is great to help people. Being a religious person does not necessarily equate with being a person who values the welfare of people. In my own church are members who are rigid conservatives and think the poor are faking it; and our church is in one of the poorist areas in Phoenix.
I don't think religion gives anybody any insight into how to make the world a better place unless they have the capacity to help anyway.
I generally like to be around people who accept that a devine being exists. But I serve meals and build homes with people who flat think religion is a waste of time. They are great people and I value my time with them. Religion is an attribute people have like sexual orientation or eye color. Sometimes we share the experience with others and some of us are missing it.
The road to happiness takes many paths and is different for all.

Battlebob
I think sometimes people have very spiritual feelings without needing to label them, have a doctrine, or be communal about it.

For those people who believe that John Kerry won the 2004 election.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/President_John_F_Kerry/

tres interesante

Okay, this is scary....

NBC's Go-To Guy
While Fox News Channel remains the favorite network of Republican lawmakers, NBC's new anchor, Brian Williams, is the one turning GOP heads. Message guru and former MSNBC contributor Frank Luntz says in a confidential memo to Hill leaders that Williams has emerged as the "go-to network anchor" because of his brains and "lack of detectable ideological bias." Luntz credits NBC Executive Producer Steve Capus for "a flawless transition to a new generation of news anchor." Still, Fox and CNN lead the nets when it comes to GOP loyalty.

(The Repubs think they have a puppet in Williams. We should hit NBC hard with this. This needs to spread to all the Dem blogs.)
___________
More interesting tidbits...
On the shelf
Howard Dean, the man Democrats are poised to name their new party chair, admires Newt Gingrich more than he does Bill Clinton. We learn this from Fox television's Major Garrett, who penned The Enduring Revolution: How the Contract With America Continues to Shape the Nation . Garrett interviewed Dean for the book on the GOP revolution that occurred during Clinton's first term. Dean says Gingrich and former Christian Coalition strategist Ralph Reed "created a real success for the right wing." Clinton, meanwhile, led the Dems into complacency and defeat. Other book notes: Retired Secretary of State Colin Powell plans to write a new bio; Mary Cheney, the veep's daughter, is writing about the 2004 campaign in Travels With My Father ; and conservatives are gobbling up the new attack on the activist Supreme Court, Men in Black, by Mark Levin, as they steel for the expected fight over President Bush 's first Supreme Court nominee.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/050214/whispers/14whisplead_2.htm

Dianne,
exactly...folks go their own ways...not all religious types are great people and not all heathens are evil people. Many things define who we are. Religion or lack of is just one of them.
The mixing of politics and religion is horrible and Wallis is dead set against it and does anexcellent job of explaining it and the problems it causes.

Rice May Miss Live Viewing of Super Bowl

JERUSALEM (AP) - For 38 years, Condoleezza Rice has watched the Super Bowl live. This year, she may have to settle for a replay.

(due to being many time zones away plotting with Sharon)

*Mary Cheney, the veep's daughter, is writing about the 2004 campaign in Travels With My Father*

Of course the only part that will get any ink will be when JK referenced her during the debates. You think she'll let us in on where the B/C campaign hid her during the GOP convention?

Religious Right Fights Science for the Heart of America

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1407422,00.html

I'm talking about "organized" religion - sometimes harm has been done in the name of it.

I'm trained in science but working clinically.
I find this ignorance offensive. How can this backwardness be progress? Or is it no longer desirable to search for knowledge & to become more enlightened with time?

If they discount evolution they are discounting genetics, molecular biology, mutations, DNA, life itself! At this rate, no cure for cancer. This is the "culture of life" right?

We fighting the same battle about Creationism in Arizona. But the Right Wingnuts who run the state are not willing to turn education over entirely to the church crowd...

I always said that more people have died in the name of one god or another then all other causes combined...
because so many people find it important is a reason it is so easily abused..

Wallis constantly talks about all the young people who turn out for his discussions and educational classes. About how enthusiastic everyone is to stop abusng people in the name of some god. Maybe we are seeing that with conservatives pushing back on the environment and Social Security? The Bible mentions helping the poor more then any other topic and until I see some of the big conservsative movements coming out against Bush budget priorities then I am skeptical about his claims.

BattleBob
Most of the rightwingers homeschool anyway.
Maybe their kids can get into Bob Jones University, since it isn't accredited.

Some detail on Bush plan - this will mean layoffs too, probably for alot of Dems too. (Vets for Peace)

On the domestic side, the budget would consolidate 18 community development block grant programs into one Commerce Department program for a savings of $1.8 billion. It would slice law enforcement grants to states from $2.8 billion to $1.5 billion. And it would cut 48 education programs totaling $4.3 billion, including $2.2 billion for high school programs, mostly state grants for vocational education.

The budget would cut $440 million in Safe and Drug-Free School grants, $500 million in education technology state grants, $225 million for the Even Start literacy program, $280 million for Upward Bound programs for inner-city youths and a $150 million talent research program, according to the documents.

The budget includes no subsidy for Amtrak and would eliminate $20 million for the next generation of high-speed rail and $250 million for railroad rehabilitation. Several Energy Department programs would be eliminated, as would $100 million in grants for land and water conservation. The budget proposal would cut $94 million in grants for the Healthy Communities Access Program and phase out rural health grants, the documents said. Bush touted his commitment to such programs during his reelection campaign. The president would terminate the Community Food and Nutrition Program, and cut a migrant and seasonal farm worker training program. He would renew his effort to cut a $143 million program for the removal of severely distressed housing.

Backlash Confronts Concientious Objector

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-na-objector7feb07,0,1219921.story?coll=la-home-headlinesk

Read this and be moved!

This is where my spirituality lies. This is my heart. All the rest is false teaching. This transcends all man's religions and comes straight from the true Supreme Being. This is an excerpt:

HINESVILLE, Ga. — His first sergeant called him a coward to his face. His chaplain sent him an e-mail saying he was ashamed of him. His commanders had him formally charged with desertion.

Sgt. Kevin Benderman, who served one tour of duty in Iraq, is refusing to serve another. When his fellow soldiers of the Third Infantry Division packed their gear and left nearby Fort Stewart for Iraq last week, Benderman stayed home. He says he has chosen to follow his conscience, not his commanders.
   
 After 10 years in the U.S. Army, Benderman has applied for discharge as a conscientious objector -- a heresy to many in the military brotherhood at a time when the country is fighting two debilitating wars overseas.

Monday, Benderman, 40, will attend a military court hearing at Fort Stewart that will determine whether he will face a court martial for desertion and failure to report for a unit deployment. He would face up to seven years in prison if convicted.

"War is the greatest form of wrong," Benderman wrote in his seven-page conscientious objector application. "I believe that my moral obligation to humanity is to not allow myself to be a part of this destruction."

In the six months he spent in combat in Iraq in 2003, Benderman said, he was badly shaken by what he witnessed. He saw a young Iraqi girl with her arm horribly burned and blackened, standing helplessly on a roadside as Benderman's convoy rushed past. He saw dogs feasting on civilian corpses dumped into pits. He saw young American soldiers treat war like a video game, with few qualms about killing or the effects of the invasion on ordinary Iraqis.

Benderman said he begged an officer to stop and help the girl, but was told that the unit couldn't spare its limited medical supplies. "I had to look at that little girl, look into her eyes, and in her eyes I saw the TRUTH. I cannot kill," Benderman wrote in his application.

Only a handful of conscientious objector applications have been filed during the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are fought by professional soldiers, not draftees. Vietnam, a war that bitterly divided America, produced 172,000 conscientious objector applications from draftees and another 17,000 from active duty soldiers.

For the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, applications have increased from 23 in 2002 to 60 in 2003 and 67 last year, according to Pentagon figures. Of those applications, 71 -- almost half -- have been approved. Unlike Benderman, few applicants have spoken publicly about their beliefs.

After seeing the civilian corpses, Benderman said, he made a point of befriending ordinary Iraqis, only to be warned by officers not to fraternize with "the enemy." He had long talks with an English-speaking schoolteacher. He began reading the Koran and realized that the religious and moral values of most Iraqis were similar to his own. Everything he had been told about the rationale for the American invasion, he said, seemed misguided and destructive.

Benderman said he now believes the war in Iraq -- and all war -- is immoral. His conscience will no longer allow him to fight or kill, he said, even if that makes him a pariah.

"War robs you of your humanity. It makes people do terrible things they would otherwise never do," Benderman said in the living room of his modest home here, his wife Monica by his side and his pet dog Carl at his feet.

(read more at the link)

Posted by: DiAnne at February 7, 2005 12:10 AM

Don't laugh..my neice who is a true right wingnut had a scholorship offer from Bob Jones. It was an athletic scholorship and the only reason she didn't go there is someone else got the offer..

This is horrible about the budget cuts. Time for all those who preach moral values about helping the poor to get off their buts and start protesting.

BTW...we had a big fight because she thinks title 9 isn't needed. She got her bachlors and masters degrees on a athletic scholorship from Denver Univ only because of Title 9.

So now she gleefully stabs those that need the same help she got...

Battlebob
The cheerleaders at Bob Jones University wear ankle length skirts.

More on cuts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/07/politics/07budget.htm...

President Bush's budget would more than double the co-payment charged to many veterans for prescription drugs and would require some to pay a new fee of $250 a year for the privilege of using government health care, administration officials said Sunday.

The proposals, they said, are in the $2.5 trillion budget that Mr. Bush plans to unveil on Monday. White House officials said the budget advanced his goal of cutting the deficit, which hit a record last year.

AND

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news ?
tmpl=story&e=4&u=/ap/20050207/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_budget

Other programs set for cuts, the AP has learned, include the Army Corps of Engineers, whose dam and other waterway projects are extremely popular in Congress; the Energy Department; and a number of health programs under the Health and Human Services (news - web sites) Department.

About one-third of the programs being targeted for elimination are in the Education Department, including federal grant programs for local schools in such areas as vocational education, supporting drug-free schools and Even Start, a $225 million literacy program.

The administration also will seek to restrain growth in mandatory spending, primarily by trimming costs in Medicaid, the joint program with states that pays the cost of poor people's health care.

WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!!!

Bush Budget Will Raise Prescription Prices for Veterans
6 February 2005

In regards to the upcoming budget cuts, Vice President Dick Cheney said today, "We are being tight." Tight Dick? Can you define that for us and explain how “being tight” is not “turning our backs on the most needy people in our society."

Because from where I sit, from what I have read, “the most needy people in our society” are getting screwed, once again by the Bush Administration. As I said here last night, in reference to the budget cuts, the little people are under the big boot of the government.

Here’s my latest example of the Big Boot from the N.Y. Times…

President Bush's budget would more than double the co-payment charged to many veterans for prescription drugs and would require some to pay a new fee of $250 a year for the privilege of using government health care, administration officials said Sunday.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=329

Re: Philosophy of Lao Tse, the Tao Te Ching

Given more time, Matt, I did read your article, and did more research beyond that.

Sounds a bit like something that might be akin to what was later called existentialism?

My choice of religion does stem from subjective experience that has resulted in deep personal commitment. And while I don't personally believe in some things others do, like, for instance, astrology, I believe deeply in not only the privilege of individual freedom of thought and expression, but in it's necessity.

I am happy to know you believe in people finding a common goal and working together toward that goal.

I believe that is what the DCP is all about.

(My goodness, I am in awe of the calibre of company at the DCP.)