Giving Voice

WOW,that's very powerful and so well written.

Tut,

Wow, really, really beautiful. I don't even have the words to express how moved I am by what you wrote. I wish you would send it to every newspaper in the country as an op-ed piece. Let me know if you need and help. I am sure all the DCP would be willing to help you.

Very powerful, Tut, truly. You should be proud. Giving voice indeed.

Nicely put, Tut. I don't know a thing about this issue since I don't watch TV news. But the letter is very powerful.

Another judge just lifted the stay of the stay that a Florida judge put on the feeding tube being removed. It can now be removed.

This is so damn sick.

There will be rulings to overrule other rulings. As volatile as things are right now, it would be silly to assume someone is going to touch that feeding tube away.

I had a picture in my head just a moment ago. What if that feeding tube is not a lifeline, but a tether that binds Terri to this Earth, and her spirit is trying to break free? Her own mother says she does not know what Terri's sounds and eye movements mean. Can we know if she is asking to be allowed to go?

Fifty or so years ago, medical technology did not exist to suspend a person between life and death. Heart failure like Terri experienced would have resulted in a death naturally. There would be no gray area. Now, medicine can do so many things, but, does being able to do them mean that we should do them?

Terry has been reduced to 'thing' status. In trying to race to the microphone to be her voice, no one in congress has said since they don't know her wishes, decency and respect require that both husband and parents are responsible, and that government is not the way to settle a more than decade long dispute. If a family cannot come together over Terri, and the politics of it becomes the overriding issue, are we supposed to believe that coming together happens on the Hill?

I am sorry Tutterfly, but I am off-topic as usual.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/031805Y.shtml

A report issued Wednesday said Iraq could become 'the biggest corruption scandal in history.'

Wonderfully written Tutter. The truth of the matter is Terry Schiavo was a longtime bullemic and it's that disease that caused her current condition. Knowing how body and image conscious bullemics are, it's no stretch to believe that Ms. Schiavo would be mortified by her current state. It's also interesting to note that children who suffer from eating disorders tend to have controlling over bearing parents. Sound familiar? Anyway, the only thing these girls are left to control are their own bodies. This is definitely sad all the way around. While this does push to the forefront the need for a living will, really, this issue doesn't effect most Americans because most Americans can't afford the medical costs of being sustained while in a comma for two or more decades.

My mom told me that Terry Shiavo's parents said recently her siblings will look after her after they are gone. But what about after even they are gone? What, the grandkids are left with the burden? I guess they are going to keep her around until she "dies" naturally. Which who knows what that means now and how long that will take since, afterall, she is hooked up to life sustaining machines.

Shame on the parents who have made this a political issue and double shame on the opportunist pols jumping on this to score political points with their constituencies. This is solely a matter for the courts and NOT Congress.

Wonderful post from Tutterfly on the Schiavo case.

There's a couple of posts on LUTD on this... one from me and one from Sandy...

A Deep Reverence for Nature and A Natural Devotion
18 March 2005

I was raised with a deep reverence for nature. There are few things more heartbreaking to me than the sacrificing of that which sustains us, the earth, for the lust for the almighty dollar and power. The thought of drilling in the Arctic Refuge is anathema to the claim by the right wing to be the values party of our political system.

Daily we are barraged, by insults to nature and life by the Republican Party. Daily we are confounded by their claims of compassion, as we watch them strip away the foundations of society that seek to help and protect those less fortunate. Greed and avarice, condemnation of the beliefs of others and pomposity do not exist in any of the religious, theological and spiritual teachings of this world, including Christianity. Yet, this is their true creed and they claim it in the name of values.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=578

FD---

I did not know about the bulemia. That informs me and I thank you. A different picture to look at, for sure. Terri was very young when her heart stopped. What need do the young have for living wills? And, even with one, if your perceptions of her parents are correct, then utter desperation would drive them to even override a living will if it existed.

Terri's body will break down at some point. Would they want dialysis started if her kidneys stop working? Should she have chemotherapy if she develops cancer? Where does a line get drawn?
Maybe the idea is to draw up a set of laws that makes it illegal not to pursue the most ultra-agressive treatments that can be found to treat EVERY illness.

I have to wonder about the many thousands of people who have a loved on in a persistent vegatative state. Do they want to be hauled up in front of congress? Do they want their decisions taken away from them? I don't blame anyone who has lived or is living thru something like this for having hope. Hope is a human emotion, albiet sometimes a cruel emotion. You can't remove hope by judicial order. There is no mechanism that shuts it off. But, it's equally foolish to say that congress, and public debate and pundrity can bring about a workable cure.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions. That is so very true today.

George F. Kennan Dies at 101; Leading Strategist of Cold War
By TIM WEINER and BARBARA CROSSETTE

Published: March 18, 2005

[picture]
George Tames/The New York Times, 1967
George F. Kennan
[picture]
Sovfoto via Associated Press
George F. Kennan, right, in Moscow on May 14, 1952, after presenting his credentials as the new American ambassador. At center is Nikola Shvernik, president of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet, and at left is A. F. Gorkin, secretary of the Presidium.

George F. Kennan, the American diplomat who did more than any other envoy of his generation to shape United States policy during the cold war, died on Thursday night in Princeton, N.J. He was 101.

Mr. Kennan was the man to whom the White House and the Pentagon turned when they sought to understand the Soviet Union after World War II. He conceived the cold-war policy of containment, the idea that the United States should stop the global spread of Communism by diplomacy, politics, and covert action - by any means short of war.

This is a major, major loss to this country. Unlike the Wolfowitz's of this adminstration, Kennan was a very thoughtful inciteful foreign policy strategist during my lifetime. He was always at the top of my college and graduate school's must reading list for foreign policy. Its sad to see the passing of intellectuals like him and the torch now being passed to idealogues.

Tutt:
Excellent article, and so well written

Another article very well written I think from one of our own:

http://watchingthewatchers.org/

Tut unfortunately Terri is politics.
Everything in our lives that we value as being personal and private is unfortunately now subject to being politicized if it furthers a political cause.
Our religious beliefs, military service, our relationships with our family,our relationship with our physicians and our religious leader (rabbi, minister etc), our God, our judges, our friends, neighbors, and co workers(remember the Tennessee Kerry supporter fired for having a Kerry sticker) are all subject to political advantage.

Maybe we should start praying or demanding of our politicans that the bright line separating the personal and public be once again respected. Their are no longer 'any' boundaries. If our personal lives fit a political cause we are all all now fair game.That's just the way it is.

Eloquent words. Not much more to say.

Rossi,

You're right. Very powerful.

The Debates We Don’t Have in Washington, but Should
18 March 2005

The debate about Terry Schiavo has brought up a lot of questions. It’s a heated debate that with hope, will soon be over. The judge presiding over the case has refused the request from House attorneys to delay the removal.

"I have had no cogent reason why the (congressional) committee should intervene," Circuit Judge George Greer told attorneys in a conference call, adding that last-minute action by Congress does not invalidate years of court rulings.

Rep. Henry Waxman of California, senior Democrat on the Government Reform Committee, called the subpoenas from Congress a "flagrant abuse of power.” (Rep. Waxman's Full Statement)

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, told reporters in Washington earlier Friday that removal of the tube amounted to "barbarism."

Kerry strategist David Wade shared his thoughts on the Schiavo case earlier and the debates we don’t have in Washington.

“Watching Tom DeLay on CNN talking about the Terry Schaivo case right now, having seen Rick Santorum and Bill Frist talk yesterday about how Congress should do the 'moral thing' and intervene in this family matter, it got me thinking about the debates we don't have in Washington.”

MORE - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=579

This is from ProgressforAz.

Hi everyone,

I know we are all focused on the anniversary of the war tomorrow and on Bush’s visit to Tucson on Monday – as we should be. But I wanted to forward this article that come out today anyway, and hope you find time to read it, or save it for Tuesday.

As those who know me know, I believe that supporting the workers of Walmart, poster-bully of the robber barons, is the single most important thing the progressive movement can do other than winning the return of our troops to their families and regaining the vote, and it has the advantage of not being directly political while at the same time rebuilding the essential voice of the democratic party. Even social security is a distraction, because it is reversible when we regain the necessary seats in Washington.

I believe small business could be enlisted to help, because Walmart’s business practices make small business owners become someone else’s employees as everyone spirals downward. In fact, socially responsible big business are potential allies, since Walmart business practices hurt their bottom line through unfair competition or through unfair purchasing agreements.
In peace, Rev. Gerry Straatemeier, MSW

Unions to Wal-Mart: The Gloves Are Off

http://www.alternet.org/rights/21531/
[snip]
Wal-Mart and its wannabes are the GMs, Fords, Chryslers and U.S. Steels of our time. The great organizing drives of the 1930s were mounted around an understanding that there was a new industrial force reorganizing all of mass work. Wal-Mart and its clones have similarly restructured the nature of mass enterprise in service industries today, and therefore are transforming the fundamental business model that drives both domestic and international commerce.

Pamela, I asked this very question on Wednesday here. Certainly Ms.Schiavo is a very difficult situation, but have the Republicans given any thought of how her faily or the state of Florida can continue to pay indefinitely the millions it takes to keep her on a feeding tube or unders hospital care. We certainly don't want life and death choices to be made according to a cost/benefit analysis but how about all of those families that have to have bake sales to raise the big bucks for their kid's heart transplants or to care for their paraplageic loved ones.
I don't want to turn this into an abortion debate, b/c that is the type of mindless values debate that DeLay,Frist and Santorum want, but have the so called pro life crowd thought of how we as a society can pay for the care of children born basically brain dead that the right wing so desperately want to keep alive.
The question of how this country allocates its medical resources is defintely a debate that this country needs to have but turning this poor woman into a political football is as shameless as turning Elian Gonzalez into a political game for Jeb Bush's political advantage.
As I posted earlier today, it reminds me of the ploy Ronald Regan used to do to use to harp on one particular person's plight while ignoring millions of folks that need real healthcare.
Pamela this would be the perfect time for John Kerry to unroll his Kids First Program on the Senate floor as the Democratic response to this tragedy.
Unfortunately we as Dems don't seem to have the stomach for this type of shameless exploitation of this woman's tragedgy.
“Ms. Schaivo is a Medicaid patient. Medicaid is keeping her alive. Why don't we ask: Do these Republicans believe that paying the cost of caring for Ms. Schaivo indefinitely isn't as important as tax cuts for millionaires?”

Posted by: Ira at March 18, 2005 06:42 PM

Ira

It's a damn shame that the Housa and Senate are going on break. It would be the perfect time to roll out Kids First. It's my understanding that JK will be starting to push Kids First more in April.

In a final stroke of irony, the selfsame people who are pressing the case to keep Terry Schiavo on life support ad infinitum, have passed a bankruptcy bill which will punish those to go into debt for doing just that.

This is what a jewish author thinks. Just a different prospective.

http://www.aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Should_Terri_Schiavo_Live_or_Die$.asp

[snip]
Her impairment is cognitive and Judaism does not recognize any less of a right to treatment for one cognitively impaired than one mentally astute.

~tutterfly
thank you for what you have written.
This is a subject very personal to me.
I know the pain firsthand. Everyone should have a living will. My sister did not, and she was in Mrs. Schiavo's situation at age 45, after a massive head injury. Three years ago my sibling and I (as next of kin) had to make a similar decision on behalf of our sister. No one knows the agony, the tears, the guilt, the prayers, the sleepless nights that the immediate family goes through before, during and after a decision like this must be made on behalf of another. One way or the other, we cannot judge her husband or her parents. This is one of the most heart wrenching difficult decisions anyone will have to make. Believe me, no one wants this kind of responsibility. No matter which way you decide, you always wonder if you made the right decision for your loved one. This should never become a political issue.

Kerry Intensifies Attack on Bush
18 March 2005

Today’s L.A. Times has a story that highlight’s Kerry’s recent efforts to step up his attacks on Bush, including his Budget policy speech yesterday and his fight to save the Arctic Refuge from drilling earlier in the week.

[i]In response to a question, Kerry charged that Bush's nomination of Undersecretary of State John R. Bolton as ambassador to the United Nations and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul D. Wolfowitz as president of the World Bank would undermine the administration's efforts to rebuild ties with allies frayed by strains over the war in Iraq.

"Here are two people who come to the jobs quite dismissive of the very fundamental purposes and engagements that those entities have been involved in, and it will be felt in the rest of the diplomacy of this administration," Kerry said.[/i]

And, of course, let no MSM reporter write about Kerry or interview him with out asking the big ’08 question, which Kerry politely evades with talk about the importance of focusing on the House and Senate races of ’06.

MORE - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=580

This should never become a political issue.

Posted by: on.to.victory4Dems at March 18, 2005 10:34 PM

On.to.Victory,

Absolutely. It's a terrible place to be in, no matter what the circumstances.

I don't believe there is a right or wrong answer to a medical question. I think that each case is different and there are so many variables.

As one who has worked in Rehab for years and before that studied the brain, I have worked with quite a few head injury and elderly patients in persistent vegetative states.

I think everyone should have an Advance Directive to cover the unthinkable, should it happen. Then it comes down to quality of life. Has there been anoxia? If the person were to become conscious and start to "recover" after a prolonged coma or period of minimal or variable consciousness, would they have amnesia? contractures of their limbs? severe depression? severe limited short term memory? extreme personality change? intractable violent rage? (I have seen all of these happen)

The brain can only go a very short period without adequate oxygen. It is desirable to have a deep love for family members, spouses etc. but it is so important to understand and accept what has happened medically to the best of one's ability. There are certain "miracles" that just don't happen. Some people make unexpected progress after severe illnesses and injuries, sometimes defying odds but some damage is irreversible and I know that I for one have an Advance Directive that rules out a prolonged persistent vegetative state and I'm glad for my own sake and for that of my family that I do.

I also went today to a luncheon put on by the March of Dimes and heard of their start in the field of polio. Since that was eradicated, they have turned their cause to decreasing incidence of premature births. FDR spearheaded the organization.

We heard the parents of a three year old speak of her rocky medical history (with medical bills well over a million dollars) and we saw her hold a doll that was about her birth weight & size (1-1/2 pounds).

I couldn't help but think that next time I see some people from a group such as Operation Rescue, I would like to ask them if they couldn't be more constructively using their time walking for a group like the March of Dimes?

Medicine and morality don't mix when people do not understand biology, do not consider the full lifetime implications on the person and the family when they think about birth, life and death AND many so-called "pro-life" people are not consistent.

I have much more respect for the person who is against abortion but also against the death penalty and against war.

& when it comes to euthanasia & to life support systems and when to withdraw them - which is more unnatural? Hooking people up to them not knowing what will happen? Or discontinuing them?

It seems so arrogant to me to take strong positions on these issues unless one also has learned alot about medicine and outcomes.

It seems like both sides can accuse each other of playing God, and in fact, no one can know in advance what the results of their decision will be. So no one can say who is wrong or right.

By the way, on a personal level, I have a sister who is an institutionalized chronic schizophrenic so is completely conscious but her quality of life is definitely diminished & it's very sad. In her case, the dilemmas have been decisions related to treatments. Over the years, we have gone through the blame-the-family school (& schizophrenia is a biological chemical imbalance), we had a glorified lobotomist contact our family directly wanting to operate on her, & she has been a "guinea pig" for various new medications, none of which really helped. So we have sort of gone through the "grief process" for one who walks, talks and is pleasant enough in her own way, but who has had most of her potential life experiences robbed by a cruel disease and we the family have also learned to love a completely different person than she would have been.

My father died of Parkinson's disease - again - ethical decision of how long to let him continue to work when he would do dangerous things like go up on ladders, when to finally put him in a nursing home without being guilt-tripped by relatives who didn't even live close or contribute in any way or know what was going on - yet thought we were being cruel, & again - decisions about experimental medicines & considerations of experimental surgery - would it help? was he the right age? was he too far gone? It's not fun.

I would have been really resentful had I had some legislator trying to make these hard decisions. I really do think medical issues should be between the individual or their legal representative and trusted medical personnel. If there is also a trusted spiritual guide of some kind, they ought to be realistic about medicine and recovery and the limits of the body.

It's awful to see these serious matters oversimplified and overgeneralized in the courts and in government and in the media. It sort of trivializes the suffering, grief and hard decisions that have to be made by families.

Does this seem like deja vu to you? It does to me and I'm sick of it! I did this in high school & now as a "boomer" I'm still having to do it & it's not by choice!

Didn't we learn anything from Vietnam? Speaking of morality - our foreign policy has been an outrage. For shame! Same people who go out in the streets because they support a "culture of life" have been strangely silent or dismissive about Abu Graib, Guantanamo, our selective support vs censure of dictatorships & our participation in/spearheading of wars that wouldn't have to happen.

I heard an Iraqi on NPR today via satellite phone - he said that there was too much violence there for so-called democracy to be worth it. I am still reading Anne Garrels "Naked in Bagdad" and am convinced the Iraq war was a mistake, & the Gulf War before it. Most people do not realize that Iraqis made almost $4000/year in 1980 and make less than $1000/year now. This is progress?

RALLY AT NOON SATURDAY, 3/19

WHEREVER YOU LIVE

BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW! (or ASAP - the government planned to have them home by the end of 2004.)

Please join us. Bring a friend, bring a family, bring a neighborhood!

Here are some good reasons to make the effort to come out tomorrow!

Consider the non-violent revolutions of the past if you are thinking your presence tomorrow won't make a difference.

Positive social change doesn't take just ONE sit-in, one rally, one march.

Speakers will share new ideas for actions that can make a difference.

This is an opportunity to learn, to recommit, and to get re-energized

Two Years is Enough! It's Time to End the US Military Occupation of Iraq

Two years after the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the country continues to bleed and suffer.

The death toll on all sides is mounting, and the cost of the war is soaring.

The U.S. military, rather than solving Iraq's problems, is, in fact, the source of much of Iraq's instability.

It's time to say NO to war, torture, and occupation, and YES to international law, human rights, and respect for the planet and its inhabitants.

Occupation Takes Resources Away From Priorities

At Home The invasion and occupation of Iraq has already cost more than $153 billion, and the Bush administration has just asked Congress for another $82 billion for 2005. At the same time, community programs are being cut in every state in the country - from public libraries to schools to hospitals to train service - and the deficit is reaching record levels. The heavy reliance on the National Guard in Iraq has drained our communities of emergency responders, police and fire public servants. Our social and homeland security needs should not become part of the war's "collateral damage."

Occupation Puts US Soldiers At Risk

With more than 1,500 US troops killed and over 25,000 wounded, it's clear that even though the big battles are over, the fighting in Iraq has not stopped. On average, there are more than 425 attacks by Iraqi resistance fighters each week. US soldiers are at grave risk in Iraq, and continue to suffer even after they come home. Troops returning to the U.S. are suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and are even turning up in homeless shelters in cities through the country. The best way to support the troops is to demand that they be come home now - especially since no weapons of mass destruction or links between Iraq and the Sept. 11 attacks were ever found.

Iraq is in Chaos, and the Occupation is Making Things Worse

The occupation isn't providing security for Iraqis; there is no security in Iraq. According to a study published in the respected medical journal The Lancet, some 100,000 Iraqis have lost their lives in the war and occupation, and most of those deaths are due to the U.S. military campaign. Iraqis are afraid to leave their homes, because they could be killed by U.S. soldiers or suicide bombers. Fear of violence, abduction and rape has emptied the streets of women. Meanwhile, the water isn't safe to drink, the electricity still isn't working, and the hospitals are in shambles. The occupation isn't solving these problems; it's making them worse.

Occupying Iraq Makes Us Less Safe

The ongoing US military presence in Iraq - and plans to build 14 permanent military bases there - is inflaming anti-American sentiment throughout the Middle East and around the world. In just one year, the estimated number of Iraqi insurgent fighters jumped from 5,000 to 40,000. In addition, according to the US National Intelligence Council, the war in Iraq has created "a training and recruitment ground (for terrorists), and an opportunity for terrorists to enhance their technical skills."

The Iraqis Don't Want Us There

It should be no surprise that Iraqis are happy with downfall of Saddam Hussein. But that does not mean they are happy to have 150,000 U.S. troops occupying their country. An overwhelming majority Iraqis (82% of Sunnis and 69% of Shiites) want the U.S. military to leave after an elected Iraqi government is in place. If we really believe in democracy, then we should listen to the demands of the Iraqi people and leave their country. There can be no liberation in the midst of a military occupation, and the Iraqi election didn't change that reality.

The Only Winners So Far Are Halliburton and Other War Profiteering Companies

While Iraq's infrastructure has yet to be rebuilt, companies like Halliburton and Bechtel have raked in billions of dollars in Iraq contracts. Although these companies have done shoddy work, and, in the case of Halliburton, are under investigation for overcharging for services that were never provided, their close ties to the Bush administration keep them safe from being held accountable. Oil companies like Chevron-Texaco will soon be benefiting from the privatization of the Iraqi oil fields. Iraqis should control their own resources, and we should pay them to reconstruct their own country now that we've destroyed it.

Dont know if this has been posted Pamela, DiAnne

HUGE News: JKFA Contacts Corsi
Dear JKFA Forum Members,

John Kerry For America has extended our hand to Mr. Corsi, the man who has spit all over Kerry's military record and spread lies around John while claiming he will move to MA to run against him in 2008. I contacted him, and invited him to a special John Kerry For America ran 'Open Forum' were people can post questions to clear his name (Actually to prove him as a liar).

Please contact Corsi and DEMAND he accepts our invite, and joins the 'Open Forum'. We deserve answers NOW so e-mail him, and tell him accept the JKFA Open Forum invite..

Heres his e-mail: jcorsi@ wintersoldier.com

Thank you SO much Kerry supporters for your help.
- Jordon Wright
Webmaster/Owner of JohnKerryForAmerica.Com

The religious right have delusions of grandeur now tht they have infiltrated the government:

Newsday: http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny=us-cong194182497mar19,0,6625027.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

Experts: GOP may have stepped out of bounds

WASHINGTON - House Republicans may have overreached their authority when they issued congressional subpoenas yesterday to try to block a Florida court's order to remove Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, many lawyers and experts said yesterday.

Many, though not all, of the attorneys interviewed said the likely unprecedented gambit by the House to keep Schiavo alive despite the court-backed wishes of her husband, Michael Schiavo, would likely fail under constitutional scrutiny.

Congress has the authority to conduct investigations and issue subpoenas on almost any issue, and can hold those who refuse to honor the summons in contempt, resulting in fines or jail.
House Government Reform Committee Chairman Tom Davis (R-Va.) exercised that power yesterday, issuing subpoenas to Schiavo and her husband, prompting a temporary stay of the order.
But Florida County Judge George Greer, who issued the order, rejected the House action, saying he saw no "cogent reason" for it since the House had not acted during years of litigation and did not issue subpoenas in other similar cases.
The tube was removed and Greer was backed yesterday by a state appellate court and the Florida Supreme Court.

Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Tribe said he believes that as the House Republicans appeal the decision, federal courts all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court will uphold the state judge because the House action is "a clear violation of the separation of powers."

There is a general principle of federal supremacy - that is, federal authority trumps state authority, but that occurs only when Congress passes a law.

"It is just not the case that just because [a member of Congress] has the federal stamp on his arm he can barge into a state court and say, 'I'm sorry, I'm whacking you to death,'" Tribe said.
Not all scholars agreed that the House subpoenas did not trump a state court order.

Georgetown Law Professor Paul Rothstein said, "I think the judge [Greer] is making a legal mistake and is vulnerable. Provided that Congress is making legitimate investigations for making law, they have power to seek evidence."

PS I would never email psycho Corsi - too much bad karma & it may only generate him publicity.
I don't agree with what that Forum is doing unless JK initiated it himself. They have big TX money backing them.

Tutter,

Your post is beautiful, thoughtful and cogent. In my profession, I literally deal with life and death issues on a daily basis. Many times I have to deliver sobering facts to people. In my most diplomatic and gentle manner, they understand what I am telling them. As they are dealing with a terminal illness, most do not want their lives artifically prolonged-if it can be avoided. I can't imagine the situation getting to the point where it would become a matter for the Congress to get involved.

I am sickened by the rhetoric. In my view not one of the Congressmen or lawyers that wants to bring this matter up in congress has any real respect for life. They will use the most inflammatory and outrageous statements to galvanize their constituents.

The only good that I can see coming from this is the education that people will get about the dying process. It is an absurd, but emotionally compelling, claim that withholding feedings from Terry Schiavo is painful. She can't feel or process pain. People who don't accept that medical fact are imaging that they are in her situation and can't honestly accept that we are all going to die.

[Are we surprised????????]

Study: Media Self-Censored Some Iraq Coverage

Fri Mar 18 - Editor and Publisher

NEW YORK Many media outlets self-censored their reporting on the Iraq invasion because of concerns about public reaction to graphic images and content, according to a survey of more than 200 journalists by American University's School of Communications.

The study, released Friday, also determined that "vigorous discussions" about what and where to publish information and images were conducted at media outlets and, in many cases, journalists posted material online that did not make it to print.

continue~
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ep/20050318/en_bpiep/studymediaselfcensoredsomeiraqcoverage

FOCUS - Worldwide Protests against Occupation of Iraq

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/031905Z.shtml

In my view not one of the Congressmen or lawyers that wants to bring this matter up in congress has any real respect for life. - On Call

That's how I feel. & also that people don't want to think about their own mortality .. even all the religion doesn't seem to help.

Posted by: oncall at March 19, 2005 09:09 AM

I will tell people now that if you have the opportunity to be present at the death of a loved one, do it. Don't avoid it. Seeing the process of passing from this life to whatever comes hext is unbelievable helpful in dealing with the grief. I was there for both of my parents death and it was extremely helpful. We do a tremendous disservice to people by sheltering them from this normal and natural part of life.

I do volunteer work for hospice and that too is very rewarding. People need to be educated about what the dying process is like. most people stop eating and drinking for several days before their death like Terri Schiavo is. It is not painful. I have been there to see what happens many times and the cessation of eating and drinking is not painful. IT is part of the process.

There is a peace that is being denied the Schiavo family right now and that is a shame. people should just let these folks alone.

In nursing homes and hospitals sometimes IV for hydration is continued & there are also "cocktails" with morphine, muscle relaxants etc.

I still wonder why some of these well-meaning people don't get up in arms about civilian deaths around the world from avoidable violence, environmental neglect and bad policy.

I wasn't able to get back in time to be there for my father's death but a nurse did a cruel but kind thing for me - she told me his vitals over the phone & I realized that the time for medical heroics had passed. It was actually helpful.
She told me he would pass out from low blood pressure & that was not a bad way to go! It was more the shock of never being able to see him again, but the time of seeing him as a vital person was already long past.

When my brother-in-law committed suicide, the family went through a decade of grief - again, it was more about the survivors & what could have been, what if anything they could have done differently to have it not happen.

I think as a culture we are far too removed from nature - birth, illness, life & the transience of everything. Buddhism does a nice job with that.

And more from the department ocf the disgusting...

From Linda Douglass on ABC News tonight (no transcript available online):

ABC News has obtained talking points circulated among Republican senators explaining why they should vote to intervene in the Schiavo case. Among them: "This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited..." and "This is a great political issue... this is a tough issue for Democrats."
------------

I am praying around the clock that God(ess) will subpoena Frist, DeLay and the whole lot of these hypocrits to appear before him/her with all possible speed.

A friend just told me that activists are going to try to enter the hospital and give Terri a glass of water. ("Outside the hospice, the Rev. Patrick Mahoney of the Christian Defense
Coalition said activists planned to try to enter the hospice Saturday morning ``to try to give Terri a cup of water.")

As a speech/swallow pathologist, I suspect that she would not have been on a feeding tube in the first place if it were safe for her to swallow by mouth. If she were to have liquid, it should probably be thickened and to establish the possibility of silent aspiration (which would give probably give her aspiration pneumonia & probably kill her), they would have to do a Modified Barium Swallow under x-ray. These can not be medical people and I question their motives.

Sandy posted this late last night...

Who Spoke For Baby Sun?

6 month old Sun Hudson died at Texas Children's Hospital yesterday, after being removed from the breathing tube. He "wiggled with eyes open, his mother said, and smacked his lips." His mother, Wanda Hudson, had fought to keep her son alive against the medical judgment of the hospital. It is the first such case in this country, where a hospital's decisions about the life of a patient were placed over the wishes of a family member or legal guardian.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=581

Here is some sensible medical information on hypoxia/anoxia.

http://www.caregiver.org/caregiver/jsp/content_node.jsp?nodeid=575

I have just read about Terri's case in Wired magazine. I had not followed it closely as I am focussed on the 2nd anniversary of the Iraq war and also don't follow tv. But in this article I learned that the family still wants rehab. Most changes in the brain occur in the first 6 months of therapy. After that, he brain plasticity slows down and the odds are much worse. Also, rehabilitation is expensive and the Bush administration hasn't shown interest in funding things like this. We'll see how they do with the returning vets who are in similar conditions.

When someone wishes to go against the advice of a medical facility, who is legally responsible? & who is financially responsible?

It is possible to leave the hospital, against medical advice. It's done all the time.

I've seen quite a few cases where families have fed patients, against medical advice, or items not approved for their safety given their level of dysphagia (swallowing safely requires a fairly intact brainstem and a sufficient level of alertness cognitively). The outcomes have usually been unfavorable for the patient.

Medical mistakes are made, but with dysphagia patients, I know that I have had to carry a million dollars of liability insurance. The wishes of the family are always considered but a large part of rehabilitation is family education.

I have had families ask for another therapist because I was not a Born Again Christian and one family thought their child with cerebral palsy was possessed by the devil. Another (head injury patient, a teen) had a church congregation come in and chant over her.

People who feel this way should probably just take the patient home and take care of them themselves, if they believe their faith and belief will trump medicine and science!

~as I posted last night on this topic, my sibling and I were in this same agonizing situation 3 years ago with the final days of our sister's life. This article states it very well, all across America, family members face this excrutiating dilemma every day. It is an intensely personal and private decision, and it is repugnant to me that some Republican Congress members would stoop to try to use this for political gain and exploitation...Repugnant, but not surprising.

Decisions are usually made quietly

By David B. Caruso Sat, Mar. 19, 2005
The Associated Press

PHILADELPHIA - • End-of-life choices are typically made in private because family members can agree.

Hospitals and nursing homes don't track how many Americans die each year after some level of life support is withdrawn, but the number is likely to be at least in the tens of thousands, doctors said Friday.

"I make at least one of these decisions daily," said Dr. Sean Morrison, a palliative-care physician and professor at the Mount Sinai School of Medicine in New York City.

"For a majority of people who die in this country, a decision is made at some point to either withhold or withdraw a medical treatment," he said. "We ask the family what their goals are for the care, and we ask them to consider whether they believe that there is a fate worse than death. If the treatments meet the family's goals, we continue it. If not, we don't."

Such end-of-life decisions are usually made quietly, without anything close to the turmoil or controversy that has marked the case involving Terri Schiavo.

continue reading~
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/nation/11179987.htm

There is a peace that is being denied the Schiavo family right now and that is a shame. people should just let these folks alone.

Posted by: spinnaker at March 19, 2005 11:59 AM

Correct me if I am wrong. However, I believe Terri Schiavo's parents have been the ones who approved that the issue be brought before congress. If not, I have not heard them object to what is happening.

As the hours have passed, and I've had time to do some thinking about Terri, and in reading all the wonderful posts from everybody, I've realized a few things. The obvious, which every poll out there agrees with, is that government has no business in this process. However, I did manage to see a clip of Terri's mother BEGGING both Jeb and the florida politicians and the Prez. and Washingtion politicians to DO SOMETHING.

She invitied politicians in, and some of them have taken up her call. They had a choice, to act, or to explain to Mrs. Schindler that it was not their place to act. What I keep thinking about is how sad it is, that Mrs. Schindler has got to know that DeLay and crew do not care about her daughter as a person, but as a political tool she handed to them on a plate.

As a mother, I cannot see myself depersonalizing my child to that degree. I wanted to be mad at her for doing that, and part of me is. She has denied herself and her child a death with grace and privacy. But, because I am a mother too, I also grieve with her.

There isn't any correct way to care about Terri without caring about her entire family. Her parents and her husband all deserve comfort and care. Everyone hurts. It was, in my opinion, very wrong for the Schindlers to ask government for a law or a cure for their hurt. And, it is wrong for government to enter into it now.

6 month old Sun Hudson died at Texas Children's Hospital yesterday, after being removed from the breathing tube. He "wiggled with eyes open, his mother said, and smacked his lips." His mother, Wanda Hudson, had fought to keep her son alive against the medical judgment of the hospital. It is the first such case in this country, where a hospital's decisions about the life of a patient were placed over the wishes of a family member or legal guardian.

This is a tragic event, but issues like this are encountered on a daily basis. I suspect that if the mother had insurance, her son would not have been removed from life support. Yet, medical ethicists have examined issues like this one many times. Clearly the ethics do allow for the medical experts to make the decision to discontinue life support. Most times however, care givers will do all they can to give a family member time to reach the decision themselves.

These people have families too:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

Off to protest this bloody senseless war with the rest of the sane planet.

~on another topic in the news today, on the 2nd year anniversary...

Two Years Later, Iraq War Drains Military
Heavy Demands Offset Combat Experience

By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, March 19, 2005; Page A01

Two years after the United States launched a war in Iraq with a crushing display of power, a guerrilla conflict is grinding away at the resources of the U.S. military and casting uncertainty over the fitness of the all-volunteer force, according to senior military leaders, lawmakers and defense experts.

The unexpectedly heavy demands of sustained ground combat are depleting military manpower and gear faster than they can be fully replenished. Shortfalls in recruiting and backlogs in needed equipment are taking a toll, and growing numbers of units have been broken apart or taxed by repeated deployments, particularly in the Army National Guard and the Army Reserve.

"What keeps me awake at night is, what will this all-volunteer force look like in 2007?" Gen. Richard A. Cody, Army vice chief of staff, said at a Senate hearing this week.

The Iraq war has also led to a drop in the overall readiness of U.S. ground forces to handle threats at home and abroad, forcing the Pentagon to accept new risks -- even as military planners prepare for a global anti-terrorism campaign that administration officials say could last for a generation.

Stretched by Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States lacks a sufficiently robust ability to put large numbers of "boots on the ground" in case of a major emergency elsewhere, such as the Korean Peninsula, in the view of some Republican and Democratic lawmakers and some military leaders.
snip~
Already, the Guard and Reserve have deployed the vast majority of their forces most needed for fighting counterinsurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan -- such as military intelligence, civil affairs, infantry and military police -- bringing into question whether the Pentagon's two-year limit on reserve mobilizations is sustainable.

"Can we do this forever? No. We can't do this forever at current levels," the Army National Guard's Schultz said in an interview.

In a sign of deeper problems, career citizen-soldiers frustrated by broken units and long, grueling war-zone duties are increasingly leaving the Guard. Attrition among career guardsmen is running at nearly 20 percent, said Schultz, who expects that as many as a third of the members of some units rotating back from Iraq will quit.

Recruitment is sluggish, reaching just 75 percent of the target for the first quarter of fiscal 2005 -- meaning that the Guard is unlikely to reach its desired strength of 350,000 soldiers this year.

continue reading~
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48306-2005Mar18.html

Questions that need answering:

1. Who is behind the parent's motivation to move this tragedy to congress? I suspect some political hack(s) has been advising the parents. These hacks have to be exposed as the uncaring, self serving scum for which they are. Jeff Gannon was exposed. It can be done. Maybe that idea is already floating around the net. If not, let's get it out there.

2. Does anybody know if we can have Bill Frist's medical license reviewed? His political participation in this is beyond all bounds of medical ethics.

3. Where is our fearless President on this issue? I suspect that Rove has told him to stay quiet and wait for Terri to die. Then Bush can come out with a statement that caters to the right wing nuts, but at the same time has some semblence of decency. He will try to play it both ways. This is a profoundly moral issue that our country has been forced to examine. Where does he stand? Let's force an answer.

I get what Oncall means. Congress is doing the dirty work now. Bush will come out of this with clean hands and send Laura or Jeb to the funeral. The fact that congress cannot pass a law for just one person will be lost. He will be able to congratulate congress for trying to SAVE a life, and make some kind of statement that will shore up the hard core right, while still being careful not to make too many waves against that 80% polling that says government should be involved. You know they are thinking all this thru abot how to make everything as advantageous as possible.

typo typo

80% polling that says government should NOT be involved

sorry

Beyond belief,

DeLay ha announced congressional agreement to continue feeding and have a special session of congress this evening.

I am sorry this is off the subject, But this has been done in my name, and the anger raging in me I cannot describe.

Journalists tell of US Falluja killings

Thursday 17 March 2005, 13:41 Makka Time, 10:41 GMT

All is quiet in Falluja, or at least that is how it seems, given that the mainstream media has largely forgotten about the Iraqi city. But independent journalists are risking life and limb to bring out a very different story.

The picture they are painting is of US soldiers killing whole families, including children, attacks on hospitals and doctors, the use of napalm-like weapons and sections of the city destroyed.

One of the few reporters who has reached Falluja is American Dahr Jamail of the Inter Press Service. He interviewed a doctor who had filmed the testimony of a 16-year-old girl.

"She stayed for three days with the bodies of her family who were killed in their home. When the soldiers entered she was in her home with her father, mother, 12 year-old brother and two sisters.

She watched the soldiers enter and shoot her mother and father directly, without saying anything. They beat her two sisters, then shot them in the head. After this her brother was enraged and ran at the soldiers while shouting at them, so they shot him dead," Jamail relates.

Disturbing reports

Another report comes from an aid convoy headed up by Dr Salem Ismael. He was in Falluja last month. As well as delivering aid he photographed the dead, including children, and interviewed remaining residents.

Again his story does not tally with the indifference shown by the main media networks.

"The accounts I heard ... will live with me forever. You may think you know what happened in Falluja, but the truth is worse than you could possibly have imagined," he says.

He relates the story of Hudda Fawzi Salam Issawi from the Julan district of Falluja: "Five of us, including a 55-year-old neighbour, were trapped together in our house in Falluja when the siege began. On 9 November American marines came to our house.

'My father and the neighbour went to the door to meet them. We were not fighters. We thought we had nothing to fear. I ran into the kitchen to put on my veil, since men were going to enter our house and it would be wrong for them to see me with my hair uncovered.

"This saved my life. As my father and neighbour approached the door, the Americans opened fire on them. They died instantly.

"Me and my 13-year-old brother hid in the kitchen behind the fridge. The soldiers came into the house and caught my older sister. They beat her. Then they shot her. But they did not see me. Soon they left, but not before they had destroyed our furniture and stolen the money from my father's pocket."

Targeting media

Journalist and writer Naomi Klein has also come under attack for insisting that US forces are eliminating those who dare to count casualties.

No less than the US ambassador to the UK David Johnson wrote a letter to British newspaper The Guardian that published Klein's work, demanding evidence, which she then provided.

The first piece of evidence Klein sent to Johnson was that the hospital in Falluja was raided to stop any reporting of casualties, a tactic that was later repeated in Mosul.

"The first major operation by US marines and Iraqi soldiers was to storm Falluja general hospital, arresting doctors and placing the facility under military control.

US troops have reportedly used
napalm-like weapons

"The New York Times reported that 'the hospital was selected as an early target because the American military believed that it was the source of rumours about heavy casualties', noting that 'this time around, the American military intends to fight its own information war, countering or squelching what has been one of the insurgents' most potent weapons'.

The Los Angeles Times quoted a doctor as saying that the soldiers 'stole the mobile phones' at the hospital - preventing doctors from communicating with the outside world."

As Dahr Jamail reports from his online diary "doctors are now technically forbidden to talk to the media or allow them to take photos in Iraqi hospitals unless granted permission from the Ministry of Health and its US-adviser".

Napalm-like weapons

Allied to this are various reports of the US using napalm and napalm-like weaponry in Falluja.

Jamail recounts: "Last November, another Falluja refugee from the Julan area, Abu Sabah, told me: 'They (US military) used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud. Then small pieces fall from the air with long tails of smoke behind them.'

"He explained that pieces of these bombs exploded into large fires that burned peoples' skin even when water was dumped on their bodies, which is the effect of phosphorous weapons, as well as napalm."

The reports of the use of napalm in civilian areas are widespread, as are many other frightening allegations.

The attacks on the hospitals and medical facilities in Falluja are also in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions.

But as Richard Perle, a senior adviser to US President George Bush said at the start of the Iraq war: "The greatest triumph of the Iraq war is the destruction of the evil of international law."

Aljazeera

Jamail recounts: "Last November, another Falluja refugee from the Julan area, Abu Sabah, told me: 'They (US military) used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud. Then small pieces fall from the air with long tails of smoke behind them.'

"He explained that pieces of these bombs exploded into large fires that burned peoples' skin even when water was dumped on their bodies, which is the effect of phosphorous weapons, as well as napalm."

The reports of the use of napalm in civilian areas are widespread, as are many other frightening allegations.

The attacks on the hospitals and medical facilities in Falluja are also in direct contravention of the Geneva Conventions.

But as Richard Perle, a senior adviser to US President George Bush said at the start of the Iraq war: "The greatest triumph of the Iraq war is the destruction of the evil of international law."

Aljazeera

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6890A8DA-AF79-45AD-BB4F-42C060978A07.htm

http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/

read this if you want? Strange Happenings in Falluja if anyone can look there are photos also tell me if this is not chemical warfare

new thread

"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us." (George H.W. "Poppy" Bush)

Support American Free Press

http://www.rense.com/general63/TWIN.HTM

Posted by: oncall at March 19, 2005 01:55 PM

Oncall, interestingly, I was thinking of Terri's husband when I said family. In my family, when you marry, your spouse and you children, should you have any, become what is meant when you refer to your "family". It's not that my parents and siblings weren't my family anymore, it's just that my primary family is now my husband. As in "a woman shall leave her family and cleve unto her husband" (Ruth-Ch? verse?)

Which of course brings up yet another point in hypocrisy, which I had thought about, meaning, the bible is extraordinarily clear on this point. As a woman, once you marry, that's it for parents rights, baby. The bibly is very clear that the parent surrender "ownership" of their child, again, as in "who giveth this woman to be married to this man.." see what I mean...giveth, giveth, giveth. The bible is very, very clear about this point, that when it comes to choosing parents and husband and wife, those married to each other have the primary claim.

Rossian

Thanks for the information.
It's refreshing to have a perspective from outside the country.

In this case, the Republican's political wrangling in the Schiavo case does not seem to reflect the majority of American's opinions.

According to an ABC News poll released earlier this week, 87 percent of those surveyed said they would not want to be kept alive if in Terri Schiavo's condition, and 65 percent said a spouse should have the final say in what happens to a patient, as opposed to parents.

Michael Schiavo is adamant that politics have no place in what he says is a personal situation, and has called the Republican's actions a "mockery."

"These people in Congress are walking all over my personal and private life," he said. "I'm telling you, the United States citizens, you better start speaking up, because these people are going to trample into your personal, private affairs."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/print?id=595905