Democracy -- Get Over It

I am wondering if everyone else is watching the basketball games, or mourning the Pope. I am doing neither at the moment--

My husband is watching the games. I have a hard time with attachment--I get too emotionally involved. So I am going to have a picnic, indoors (the weather is wretched)with my son, and watch a movie.

As for the Pope, his bodily suffering is over, and that is, IMHO, a blessing. I am concerned about what follows, especially in an increasingly overtly political climate.

We could some spiritual growth right now, but, in a pinch, I'll take some humor. Thanks for the biting wit, Polly. Raising my glass of wine to you...

Karen

I'm not doing either - didn't know there were basketball games & in fact the last tv I watched was the Kerry concession speech! I found out about the Pope via the Guardian.

Last night someone got their wires crossed at one of the Catholic churches here - that the pope was already dead. The started ringing the bells (the number of times of his age) and had to stop in the middle. & that was April Fools, wasn't it?

& Greg Palast's April Fools joke was that Wolfowitz had resigned.

Wine does sound good.

Karen,

Having nice weather in L.A., I grilled salmon on the barbecue and enjoyed it with asparagus and rice.

Later, if anything good is on TV, I'll try to catch a crime drama or a movie. If not, I'll throw on a DVD of "outfoxed" or "Bush Family Fortunes." In any event, I plan on having a relaxing evening.

That is, if I'm not interrupted by DiAnne's tintinnabulation of "the ringing of the bells" ...

Washington State Voter Reform Passes

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002228538_elexreform02m.html

It looks good to me but some Republicans walk out ..

Wow - plot thickens

87 Uncounted Ballots found in King County
(which is navy blue)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/PrintStory.pl?document_id=2002228539&zsection_id=2002111777&slug=ballots02m&date=20050402

& our Governor only won by 129 votes statewide in the 3rd count!

Secretary of State Sam Reed, the state's chief election official, was surprised by news of the most-recently found ballots.

"Oh my gosh," he said.

The Pope did to the College of Cardinals what Bush wants to do the Supreme Court - pack it with people who think the 13th century was a golden age.

We should unfortunately expect more of the same from the next Pope. The age of John XXIII has past, at least for the time being. But I still believe in miracles, and in time, who knows...

I'm only watching TV right now to see if there's any coverage of whatever W is trying to shove in under the radar while the rest of the world is grieving the pope. When I turn on a news channel and the Vatican is in the background, I immediatly surf to another news channel.
I finally gave up on the news channels completely and watched a gory serial killer movie on PPV. At least it kept my interest.
I suppose that we'll have to check the internet news very carefully the next few days for W's secretive "Papal Distraction Week" agenda. I can promise all of you- he'll be a very busy boy over the next week or so.

Linda,
I am in worse shape than you--I just watched South Park, the movie, with my 15-year old son.

Will be recovering for some days...

Well I went to the health club & indulged in sauna, jacuzzi & trash magazines. I saw that starlets are still walking around with torn jeans and $5000 purses. In magazine world all anyone cares about - is Britney pregnant? Did Angelina Jolie break up a marriage?

Then looking at internet newspapers I see that there was a large, well-orchestrated attack on Abu Graib prison today - 21 soldiers wounded & we do have over 10,000 Iraqis imprisoned. There are insurgents but I can't help but wonder also how it might feel to be an Iraqi citizen with a family member imprisoned in there, possibly without charges.

Everything else appeared to be The Pope & the aftermath of the Florida case. I will keep my mouth shut because they somewhat pay my salary (the Catholics). At least, it's "nonprofit" so there is less incentive to actually make a business of people's misfortune, as I saw when working at for-profit corporate healthcare ventures. Now there is something immoral.

TV is off at my house - not watching BBall or the Pope. I lowered my flag to half-mast in respect for the Pope because he was a great leader. I am not Catholic, so cannot comment on his leadership in the church, but he was a leader with a vision of a better world and he never strayed from his vision.

One scene that replays over and over in my head is that of our own POTUS using an audience with the Pope as a photo-op while POTUS was bombing Iraq. That truly defines the POTUS and the disrespect he showed the Pope. The Pope wanted a better world - POTUS just wanted the publicity. One of those men will reside in the House of the Lord forever.

John, the Pope was good at politics, but terrible when understanding the human condition.

And the entire Vatican suffers from the kind of arrogance that we normally only associate with the Bush Administration...

Watched the games. Surprised the final scores weren't closer like they were in so many games leading up to the Final Four. When I start flipping channels, will there only be pope news? Hoping to find something else to watch out of the corner of my eye, while I continue to work on my taxes.

Speaking of "arrogance," this is kind of a wierd take (but I don't believe in predictions interpretations of religious books):

Tsunami will destroy U.S. Koranic scholar

The Daily Telegraph

BETHLEHEM -- Allah will send a huge tidal wave to destroy America in 2007 as punishment for the arrogance of its leaders, according to a new interpretation of the Koran by an anti-American Palestinian scholar.

Ziad Silwadi, a little-known Koranic scholar from the West Bank, said the holy book predicted that the United States would be engulfed by a wave that would dwarf the Boxing Day tsunami.

"The tsunami waves are a minor rehearsal in comparison with what awaits the U.S. in 2007,'' he concluded in his study. "A great sin will cause a huge flood in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans.''

He said America was guilty of the "sin'' of arrogance. The Koran's 12 references to the pharaoh being punished with drowning were a coded warning to the U.S., he argues.

Quoted in the Jerusalem Post, Silwadi acknowledged that the loss of the world's biggest economy might cause some problems. "The world will lose a lot if and when this disaster occurs because of the great services that American society has rendered to the economy, industry and science.''

I purchased the book,"GOD'S POLIICS" by Jim Willis and I highly recommend it for reading..then get to work with his message.
Karen and Dianne,did you get my e/m with that article on the Pope by Hans Kung?? I also watched PBS/Frontline tonight with a great dialogue on the Pope and his legacy from many different perspectives on "faith" which is worth viewing on pbs.org.
Abqjohn....RIGHT ON!! The Bush FP and his idealogy is falling apart and that's why this is a good book as written from a conservative's POV!! It certainly opens up the dialogue that needs to happen.
I'm finally getting my power of concentration back,but lots more work on these arms!!Enjoy the discussion here and the posts.
I just sent JK an e/m and asked him to get on Air America...soon!!

Act TODAY To Stop "Nuclear Option"
3 April 2005

It is time for everybody to go the extra mile, TODAY, to save the filibuster. Several groups have launched campaigns to stop the “nuclear option”.

What is important is that liberals, progressives, Democrats and Greens, in ALL FIFTY STATES, take feet to the street action. This may be the single most critical action anyone takes in the next four years. There is always another election, judges are forever.

The Oregon Alliance for Justice has had people collecting signatures to send to Senator Gordon Smith this week. You can expand on that effort by taking that campaign to your state. Just print the petition and talking points.

More & Links to PDF Petition, Letter and Talking Points - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=661

Ironically, though I live in a country where church an state are stritctly parted, but since yesterday the whole country has gone... mourning, the man more than the Pope, i think!
All the TV programs stopped and the radios started to play dull music. I f you were willing to cheer up, there were still songs being performed on a public channel, but the program was aimed at raising money for Aids.

And it's on for more of the same today.
Thank God the weather is lovely and we can still escape to the streets...

did you get my e/m with that article on the Pope by Hans Kung?? I also watched PBS/Frontline tonight with a great dialogue on the Pope and his legacy from many different perspectives on "faith" which is worth viewing on pbs.org.

Posted by: Patti Ferschke at April 3, 2005 03:58 AM

Hi, Patti--
Could you email me the Hans Kung article on the Pope, too? (or post the link here. . ). . . I watched that Frontline special last night, too, and thought it was excellent.

Hey-- I hope that JK listens to your recommendation about Air America!! He's been saying and doing great things lately, but a lot of progressives still don't seem to know that. .. it's time they caught on.

PS on topic:

Polly Sigh hit the nail on the head this week. . unfortunately. . To repeat her last name: sigh.

Yes, Patti, post the link. I'd love to see it as well.

Andree

I was able to listen to Nova Planet as usual!!
http://novaplanet.com The Doves, Gorillaz, some old Staple Singers, Daft Punk.

Unfortunatley,the Hans Kung article didn't come with a URL. Let me know if you want me to post snips of it and I will get back to that task later today. I also want to post some snips from "god's" Politics..awesome thoughts!

DiAnne,

You're lucky you have some music, I only have talk shows and debates about the Pope's death with a lot of questionning about his radical ideas that ignored the changes in society. Even some bishops speak that way.

Oh yes, I had one good surprise. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, Michel Barnier, was the host of a Sunday show dedicated to him ...and whom did I see? John Kerry. There as a long interview of him when he came to Paris last time and the audience raised to his feet in a long applause. He had a last sentence in French, that ended by "we shall meet again, someday".
Draw the conclusions you wish.
No Bush, no Condi only Big John as embodiment of our relationship with America!
Ah, ah...

Unfortunatley,the Hans Kung article didn't come with a URL. Let me know if you want me to post snips of it . . .
Posted by: Patti Ferschke at April 3, 2005 11:46 AM

Thanks, Patti. Snips would be great... please also give us the actual reference to the original article. . magazine, volume, pages, etc. . I am a fan of good old-fashioned hard copy and I DO actually know how to use actual libraries.

John Kerry. There as a long interview of him when he came to Paris last time and the audience raised to his feet in a long applause. He had a last sentence in French, that ended by "we shall meet again, someday".
Draw the conclusions you wish.
No Bush, no Condi only Big John as embodiment of our relationship with America!

Posted by: Andrée - France at April 3, 2005 12:16 PM

Andree--Thanks so much for telling us about the reception of JK in France. .No media coverage of any of this in the US, needless to say. I'm jealous, but it's wonderful to know that the French media are paying attention. Once again, the French are the arbiters of good taste!

Here's the article I rec'd on Hans Kung about the Pope. It's long so I'll post snips and brief history.

CRISIS IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
THE POPE'S CONTRADICTIONS
By Hans Kung

(Kung is one of today's leading catholic theologians, a swiss nat'l living in So. Germany and has been embroiled in an ongoing fued with the church for decades. Nevertheless,Kung 75,is still a priest, and president of the Global ethics Foudation and an advisor to the UN.)

This article was written to the Pope's death..so here goes

Don't be fooled by the crowds:Millions have left the Catholic Church under Pope John Paul's II's leadership. The church is in dire straights. The pope is deathly ill and desreves every bit of sympathy he can get. But the church MUST live on,and in the light of the selection of a new pope,it will need a diagnosis,an unadorned inside analysis. The therapy is discussed later.

For many catholics,this pope at the end of his physical strength,refusing to relinquish power,is the symbolism of a fraudulent church that has calcified and become senile behind it's glittering facade.

The festive mood that prevailed during the Second Vatican Council(1962-to 1965),or better known as VATICAN II,has disappeared. Vatican II's outlook of renewal,ecumenical understanding and a general openingof the world now seems overcast and the future gloomy. Many have resigned themselves or turned away out of frustration from this self-absorbed hierarchy. As a result,many people are confronted with an impossible set of alternatives:"play the game,or leave the church." New hope will only emerge when church officials in Rome and in the episcopacy reorient themselves toward the compass of the Gospel.

One of the few glimmers of hope was the popes stance against the Iraq war and war..period!
The role of the Polish Pope played in helping bring about the collapse of the Soviet Union is also emphasized,and rightly so,but it's also heavily exaggerated by papal propagandists. After all,the Soviet regime did not fail because of the pope (before the arrival of Gorbachev,the pope was achieving about as little as he is now achieving in China) but instead imploded because of the Soviet's inherent economic and social woes.
In my view,Karol Wojtyla is not the greatest,but certainly the most contradictory pope of the 20th century. A pope of many great gifts and wrong decisions! To summarize his tenure and reduce it to a common denominator: His "foreign policy" demands conversion,reform and dialogue from the rest of the world. But this is sharply contrasted by his "domestic policy" which is oriented toward the restoration of the pre-council status quo,obstructing reform,denying dialogue within the church,and absolute Roman dominance. This is evident in many areas. Whle expressly acknowedging the positive sides of this pontificate,which,incidentally,have received plenty of official emphaisis,I would like to focus on the the nine most GLARING contradictions.

HUMAN RIGHTS:
Outwardly,John Paul II supports human rights,but nowadays all too willing to to become involved in Europen politics--- has yet to sign the European's Council Declaration of Human Rights. Far too many canons of absolutist Roman law of the Middle Ages would have to be amended first.
the concept of separation of powers,the bedrock of all modern legal practice,is unknown in the RCC. Due process is an unknown entity in the church. In disputes,one and the same Vaticum agency functions as lawmaker,prosecutor,and judge.
Consequences: A servile episcopate and intolerable legal conditions. Any pastor,theologian or layperson that enters into dispute with the RCC has no prospects of prevailing.

THE ROLE OF WOMEN:
The great worshiper of the Virgin Mary preaches a noble concept of womenhood,but at the same time forbids women from practicing birth control and bars them from ordination.
Consequences:There is a rift between external conformism and internal autonomy of conscience. This results in bishops who lean toward Rome,alienating themselves from women,as was the case in the dispute surrounding the issue of abortion counseling,which in turn leads to women a growing exodus among women who have thus far remained faithful to the church. (in 1999 the Pope ordered German bishops to close counselling centers that issued certificates to women that could later be used for an AB)

SEXUAL MORALS:
This Pope,while preaching against mass poverty and suffering in the world,makes himself partially resonsible for for this suffering as a result of his attitudes toward birth control,and explosive population growth.
Consequences:Even in traditionally Catholic countries ie Ireland,Spain and Portugal,the pope's and the RRC rigorous sexual morals are tacitly or openly rejected.

CELIBACY AMONG PRIESTS:
By propagating the traditional image of the celibate male priest,the pope bears the principal responsibility for the catostrophic exodus and dearth of priests,the collaspe of spiritual welfare in many countries,and the pedophillia scandals the RCC is no longer able to cover up. The pope continues to ignor th the teachings of the bible and the great tradition of the first millenium,which did not require office bearers to require celibacy.If someone,by virtue of his office,is forced to spend a life w/o children and a wife,there is great risk that healthy integration of sexuallity will fail,which can lead to to pedophelic acts,for example.
Consequences: the ranks have become dangerously thinned,whereas, expect fewer celebrations of the eucharist,fewer people exposure to counselling etc. Th average age of a priest is somehere above 60.

ECUMENICAL MOVEMENT:
The pope like to be seen as a spokesman for the EM,while at the same time has weighed heavily on the Vatican's relation with orthodox and reform churches,and has refused to recognize their ecclesiastical and Communion services,thus encouraging and permitting Eucharistic Hospitality. He could do these things,....but doesn't want to. Instead he wants to preserve and expand the roman power system,so he resorts to a pious two-facedness:the roman politics of power and prestige are veiled by ecumenical soapbox speeches and empty gestures.
Consequences: EC was blocked after the council,and relations with the orthodox and Protestant churches were burdened to an appalling extent.The papacy,like it's predecessors in the 11th and 16th centuries,is proving to be the greatest obstacle among christian churches in fredom and diversity.

PERSONNEL POLICY:(This is IMPORTANT!)
As a suffragen bishop and later as archbishop of Krakow,the pope took part in the Second Vatican Council,but as pope he disregarded the collegiality which had been agreed upon,and instead celebrated the triumph of his papacy at the cost of the bishops!
With his "internal policies" this Pope betrayed the council numerous times. Instead of using the concillatory program words "Aggioranamento-Dialogue and Collegiality--ecumenical""what's valid now in doctrine and practice is "restoration",lectureship,obedience and re-Romanization."The criteria for the app't of a bishop is NOT the spirit of the gospel or pastoral open-mindedness,but rather to be absolutley loyal to the party line in Rome. before their app't,their fundamental conformity is tested based on curial catalog of questions and they are sacrally sealed through a personal and unlimited pledge of obedience to the Pope that is tantamount to an oath to the "Fuehrer."
the Pope's friends among German bishops include Cologne's Cardinal Joachim Meisner,the Bishop of Fulda Johannes dyba,who died in 200. Hans Hermann Groer,who resigned from his post as Vienn's cardinal in 1995 following allegations that he had sexually abused pupils years before and the Bishop of St.Poeltin,Kurt Krenn,who just lost his post after a sex scandal emerged in his priest's seminary. Those are just the most spectacular mistakes of these pastorally devastating personnel policies,which hve allowed the moral,intellectual and pastoral level of the episcopate to dangerously slip.
Consequences: A largely mediocre,ultra-conservative and servile episcopate is possibly the most serious burden of this overly long pontificate. The masses of cheering Catholics at the best-stagged Pope manifestations should NOT deecive: Millions have left the church under this influence and leadership or withdrawn from religious life in oppostion.

CLERICALISM:
The Polish Pope comes across as a deeply religious representative of a Christian Europe,but his triumphant appearances and his reactionary policies unintentionally promote hostility to the church and even an aversion to Christianity.
In the papal campaign of evangelization,which centers on a sexual morality that is out of step with the times,women,in particular,who do not share the Vatican's position on controversial issues ie BC,divorce,artificial insemmination are disparaged as promoters of a "culture of death" As a result of it's interventions--in germany,for example,where it is sought to influence politicians and the episcopacy in the dispute surrounding the issue of AB counselling--the roman Curia creates the impression thta it has little respect for the legal separation of church and state.
Consequences: Rome's clericalist policy merely strenghtens the position of dogmatic anti-clericalists and fundamental atheists. It also creates a suspicion among believers ,religion could be misused for political ends.

NEW BLOOD IN THE CHURCH:
As a media star and charismatic communicator,this pope is effective among young people,even as he grows older. But he achieves this by drawing in large part on the conservative "new movements" of Italian origin,the "Opus Dei" movement that originated in Spain,and an uncritical public lioyal to hte pope. This is all symptomatic of the pope's approach to dealing with the lay public and his inability to converse with his critics.
In keeping with his ideal of a uniform and obedient church,the pope sees the future of the church almost exclusively in these easily and controlled,conservative lay movements and audiences.Preffered by earlier popes,the Jesuits,because of thier intellectual qualities,critical theology and liberal theological options,are now perceived as spanners in the works of the papal restoration policy!
INSTEAD,Pope John Paul II,even during his tenure at Krakow,placed his full confidence in the financially powerful and influential,but undemocratic and secretive opus dei movement,a group linked to faciest regimes in the past and now especially active in the world of high finace,politics and journalism. By granting this group special legal status,the pope even made the organization exempt from supervision by the church's bishops!
Consequences:
young people fromchurch groups and congregations(with the excetion of altar servers),and especially non-organized "average catholics",usually stay away from major youth get-togethers. Catholic youth organization groups at odds with the Vatican are disciplined and starved when local bishops,at Rom'e behest,withhold their funding.

SINS OF THE PAST:
Despite the fact that in 2000,the pope forced himself through a public confession of the church's historical transgressions,JP II has drawn almost NO practical consequences from it. The baroque and bombastic confession of this form reamind vague,non-specific and ambiguous! The pope ONLY asked for forgiveness for the transgressions of the "sons and daughters" of the church,but NOT for those of the "Holy Fathers",those of the "church itself" and those of the hierarchies present at htis event.
The pope nver comented on the Curia's dealings with the Mafia,and in fact contributed more to covering up than uncovering scandals involving Catholic clergy and laity.
Consequences: The half-hearted papal confession remained w/O consequences,producing neither reversals nor actions,only words!!
For the church,this pontificate,despite its positive aspects,has on a whole proven to be great disappointment and,untimately,a disaster. As a result of his contradictions,this pope has deeply polarized the church,alienated it from countless peiople and plunged it into an epocal crisis--a structural crisis that,afeter a quarter of a century,is now revealing fatal deficits in terms of development and tremendous need for reform.
Instead,a new pope MUST decide in favor of a change in course and inspire the church to embark on new paths---in the spirit of John XXII and in keeping with the reform brought about by the Second Vatican Council.

Let's talk about this !...Patti

OOPS,SPELLING!! Too much writing!

Anybody read America 2014? Why have an amendment allowing the election of Arnold, if you could just as easily amend the constitution to re-elect Shrub? Wonder how frightening the next 4 years might be? Try 8? or 12?

How about an African or a South American Pope? Isn't it just about time for the rest of the world?

Today was spent in honor of the anniversaries of Martin Luther King's death and Vietnam War speech at a socially activist, all-inclusive Presbyterian Church in our neighborhood.

Former Ambassador Andrew Young spoke about the civil rights movement, its accidental beginning, happenstance of events, with none of the hubrous of a celebrity, and with great truths about honestly approaching today's problems with activism. They went outside the system, and didn't have a mission statement. Very self-deprecating, simply spoken but very wise, and very funny.

Maybe because he gained from that relationship and went on to accomplish, not having to relive an old glory. Young has had many roles as Mayor of a city, Ambassador to the UN, in times that were ground-breaking. He understands diplomacy and honest negotiation.

Knowing banking, and with understanding global politics, he, at the very end in response to a question about the Patriot Act, that it is all subterfuge to mask that the War on Terror and the Iraq War were bogus, in essence.

For a war planned two years before 9/11, their desire was for oil. Like stories DiAnne has posted about the petrol-euro vs petrol-dollar that are pretty much accurate. Bushco would rather court China and India than old Europe. This is all about oil and the Mideast, with their 80 year old leaders and instability looming.

Something tells me that resolution and taking away the bases are not in our future. I am still not sure how much of what the neo-cons are doing is because they think America needs a hard line, and how much of it is pure selfish profit. Producing so much misery.

Still, he and the other guests were smart, caring, and in every way, lifted us up with great hopes in our ability to affect change. Nothing, too, like a great choir.

I just found the URL for the complete Kung piece.

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,348471,00.html

Thanks Cyrano!
I don't agree with Kung and pedophelia. These creepers don't want marriage,they only want a place to hide and the church gives them that solace.
The book new to the shelves,"GOD'S POLITICS"is worth the read.

The issue of celibacy is complex,however I do believe it keeps men thinking about sex in a juvenile way,especially priests. No commitment,lack of "communion" and intimacy makes for power and control. Notice at this am's Rome procession that not one woman is represented,and this does NOT represent the "body of Christ",the true teachings of Jesus.