We Are the People We Have Been Waiting For

http://bushcheated04.com/

Check out this site for a different look at the cheating rascals.

Yes,and I will never forget the look on Rove's bull dog face after the first debate! He was running scared,looking for the next card to play and take down JK..any way he could.
I heard Randi Rhodes today on Air America,still pissed like the rest of us at Kerry's Dukakis moment:"I voted for it before I voted against it",then never went on to explain it. Well let me tell you Randi did expalin it!

I just sent DiAnne a run-down of what we are up against here in NY with the lobbyists misinformation and money to sell DREs, touch screen electronic machines to replace our levers, satisfying HAVA. I'd hoped by now to get it on Forum. Maybe in a few days.

What the public needs to understand is that these machines weren't field-tested, so even if votes weren't stolen, they were definitely lost. The 2004 election was basically a beta test on prototypes of very expensive, sensitive equipment that have nothing to do with counting, authenticating, verifying and observing the vote. Certainly not with secret codes.

We are trying for paper ballots with precinct based optical scanners. The initial cost doesn't even include the special handling, service contract, replacement after 5 years, but here is the differenc for NY.
Electronic voting $230,473,000
Optical Scan $114,423,640
SAVINGS from Optical Scan $116,049,360

If we don't have elections to make our views and preferences known, what do we have?

Pattti, girl, he did explain it. Like the message they said and still say we didn't have.

A miracle we did as well as we did. Really. With all the deconstruction. Now Time won't include him or acknowledge him in their 100 influential people.

I've really had it.

In a speech earlier this month at Goucher College,(Supreme Court Justice) O'Connor herself said she was surprised at all the violent threats she received. "I don't think the harsh rhetoric helps," she told the crowd. "I think it energizes people who are a little off base to take actions that maybe they wouldn't otherwise take."

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/04/oconnor-says-religious-right-hate.html

Here is some commentary from Sandra Day O'Connor about the right wing nuts (no, she doesn't use that term) and their effect on the judiciary. The same wing nuts who were the target for the "values" argument and felt all so powerful with their lying cheating ways will devoutly kill and injure.

DiAnne, the voting machine issue is one that still leaves me feeling hopeless. It seems that there, more even than in the media, we have a mortal enemy of democracy that cannot be defeated. I've done tons of reading about it, but it doesn't seem to lead to any action. Everyone knows that the vote was rigged; still, what can be tried that hasn't already failed? I can't see a way to victory for voters on this issue.

There are so many fights, and only so much energy and time. Which fight deserves the most energy?

Hello DCP

Great first newsletter! Thanks!

I hope everyone is awesome. I'm running in a thousand directions these days... will be catching up soon.

In the meantime Sandy posted a good piece on the MoveOn attack on Steny Hoyer. Worth checking out!

Moveon Hypocrisy on Hoyer
18 April 2005

Moveon defended its attack on Steny Hoyer in an interview with Raw Story, saying, “It’s not acceptable for a Democratic leader to take a position opposed to protecting the middle class.” Really? Then what does Moveon propose to do with the $833,000 recently raised for Sen Byrd? He voted for the bankruptcy bill as well.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=747

This from blogforArizona...

Time To Stop Picking Our Battles
Arizona’s Democratic Governor is immensely popular. The Republican Arizona legislature is immensely unpopular. Napolitano has stood up for the values of Democrats against the budgetary extremism of the legislature.

Governor Schwartzenegger of California’s favorability rating has fallen below 50%. Internal Democratic polls show that California citizens overwhelmingly support the Democratic legislative leadership on every issue area regarding the state budget. Elected Democrats in the CA executive branch, such as State Treasurer Phil Agelides and Attorney General Bill Lockyear, both of whom openly oppose and criticize everything Schwartzenegger does, are also very popular.

The lesson is pretty clear: standing up for Democratic values is popular.

The conventional wisdom in DC among congressional Democrats is that they will be punished by voters if they are perceived uncooperative or obstructionist to the Republican agenda. They fear a backlash if they stand on principles. Perhaps that is why some Democrats have crossed party lines to vote for bills as onerous as the new bankruptcy act, the repeal of the estate tax, the MTBE liability waiver, and drilling in the ANWR. These are all betrayals of everything the Democratic Party should stand for, yet Democratic office-holders are voting for them. Perhaps they think that Republicans will remember them in the voting booth: unlikely, but Democrats certainly will.

It’s time for our Congressional Democratic leaders stand up against the Republican agenda every time, instead of choosing to stand firm only on strategically selected issues. We Democrats put these people into office to represent our views on every issue, not just those they think will sell across the aisle.

What congressional Democrats are afraid of is not exactly clear. Congressional GOP caucuses led by increasingly out-of-the-mainstream and discredited figures like DeLay and Frist? A President who is a lame duck even as he embarks on his second term, who has the distinction of having the lowest second-term approval in modern history, and who is deeply distrusted on his chosen signature issues?

Now is the time to stand up and offer America a Democratic vision of America’s future. We cannot win if Democrats do nothing but obstruct the GOP, but neither can we win if Democrats give the GOP political cover by acquiescing to their ideologically inspired agenda, or by facilitating political payoffs to their most powerful constituencies.

On the issue of Dems vs. Repubs, as the DCP is applying for 501 C-3 status, a reminder of the Solzhenitsyn quote:

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart."

Washington is another example - the Governor's race was close, was counted 3x & we have a Dem woman BUT it is stll going to trial and could be overturned, but we have a Democratic state Legislature & Dem natl (both women) Senators & the majority of our Congresspersons. It's polarized and purple, but there are strong Dem values.

I think the reason for the polarization (which creates the anti-R sentiment now) is that the R party leadership have gone so far to the right that many moderate R's aren't comfortable with it, but may consider the Dem party too "liberal," even if only based on hearsay mostly. Small d Dems & Indies may also find themselves in a bit of a dilemma. & this is where people have to THINK, not listen to party lines.

DiAnne,

Yes, I agree that it is all about THINKING.

And then, of course, we have to ACT.

It's not about partisanship, it's about what is best for the future of all our children, and the planet, and the people.

We each have be willing to move beyond our narrow identities and affiliations and to branch out to speaking truth to power.

We have to be acting outside our comfort zones and find new ways of getting the truth out there.

Any ideas? How will you do that today?

Post them here:

http://www.democracycellproject.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=57&pid=1786&st=0&#entry1786

Richard Cohen takes on Senator Frist in the Washington Post today:

Faith-Based Pandering

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64467-2005Apr18.html?referrer=email
~snip~
The invocation of the phrase "people of" is no different when preceding "faith" than it is when preceding "color." It's a bold signal of mushy thinking, a corralling of people who have nothing in common other than a perceived -- and often fictionalized -- enemy. "People of faith" mischaracterizes what the political debate is all about. What Senate Democrats lack is not faith but 50 votes. Frist knows this, of course, but his mad pursuit of the presidency requires him to prove to the Christian right, the core of the Republican Party, that its cause comes before his principles.

He did this with Terri Schiavo, going so far as to use his medical bona fides (he's a heart surgeon) to view a neurologist's videotape of the poor woman and pronounce her somewhat alert. Now he is lending his name and his fast-diminishing prestige to this reprehensible effort to enlist faith on the side of a single political issue. This sort of stuff will not, as he hopes, make him the next president of the United States. Instead, it shows what raw ambition has made him: a person of pander.

Amy I have to disagree with you and moveon somewhat. You said "MoveOn is NOT about electing Democrats. It's about furthering a sweeping progressive agenda."

Unfortunately it has to be about electing Democrats not just Progressives, b/c we can not count on folks like Lincoln Chafee who will most likely be voting for Bouton today or Susan Collins who may support ending the filbuster and certainly not Arlen Specter, that we should count on to side with Progressives.

Yes we need to compromise but that is not in the Republican vocabulary. Ed Schultz pointed out that Hoyers is a great spokesman for progressive causes and it is possible that he polled folks in his district that agreed with him on the bankruptcy bill even tho most folks here did not take that position. If we expect 100% agreement from our Democratic Congresmen does that mean we can not support folks for instance that oppose abortion. I don't think so.

Moveon just contacted me to organize a Houston rally next Wed supporting the filibuster. Anyone from around here interested in helping? If so contact me. I am pissed at moveon but they did a great job in November and I don't think Ed Schultz and certainly I am not encouraging folks to withdraw their support like Amy suggest. Something about cutting off you nose Amy....

We need to somehow just communicate our dissatisfaction to moveon which is not particularly easy to do especially since they do not show an email address on their web site. Moveon is looking for leaders like us to organize a National protest day next Wednesday. This is the most impt. cause for us since last November. My guess is that since Nov. moveon is pretty much disorganized and going in every which direction. I will continue to support them b/c I met many team captains while in Denver with their national bring 8 new voters to the polls in each precinct in the country plan, and it really was a great strategy. Next time it needs to be bring 10 new voters to each precict polling station, though.

"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart."

Posted by: Karen at April 19, 2005 07:55 AM

Amen!
Great newsletter! ;-)

Ira, I replied in the previous thread. Have a great day, everyone!

It's unlikely that Sen. Lugar will grant this request (He told the Post's Charles Babington he would not; see below for more.) which will mean Democrats can either just vote or an individual senator can put a formal "hold" on the nomination. Former presidential contender and Bush thorn Senator John Kerry (D-MA) and Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT) are thought the two most likely candidates among those who might employ a "hold.

Anyone know if a hold will happen today on Boulton? I am sure the RNC would like to bury this vote story today under the news of a new Pope being announced. Hopefully Kerry can stop that vote today.

Also Chris Heinz announces tody he is not running for Congress in '06. Too bad.

Just got the
dcp newsletter..Great...

We need to respect the choice of a new Pope today but I am not thrilled that he is a controversial choice (according to Cokie Roberts) and extremely conservative choice that meddled in American politics in criticizing John Kerry and pro choice Catholics. He won't be a reformist but will expect religious purity.
I pray he will not support conservative intolerance but will at least support the doctrines of Peace,Justice, and helping the poor of Pope Paul.

So it's Ratzinger for Pope.

Lovely. Just what the fundie skinheads needs, an ultra-conservative who actually WAS a brownshirt to lead the Catholic Church.

I will now begin praying this turns out better than expected.

Oh, and before anyone jumps on me, this is not a comment on the Pope, it's a comment on what the fundie/skinhead movement will be taking from this, and not just here. Anti-semitism is on the fast track in Germany and France.

I don't think this is a good thing for the world at all.

Cardinal Ratzinger Orders Kerry Communion Ban

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/6/152916.shtml

Wednesday, July 7, 2004

In a private memorandum, top Vatican prelate Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger told American bishops that Communion must be denied to Catholic politicians who support legal abortion.

While never mentioning Sen. John Kerry by name, the memo implicitly aims at the pro-choice Catholic Massachusetts senator and presidential candidate.

Ratzinger's ban is broad and includes all other pro-abortion Catholic politicians who are defying the church's ban on abortion.

According the Culture of Life Foundation, which obtained a copy of the confidential document, the Cardinal began by stressing the serious nature of receiving Communion and the need for each person to make “a conscious decision” regarding their worthiness based on “the Church’s objective criteria.”

But the Cardinal adds that it is not only the responsibility of the pro-abortion politicians such as Kerry to make a judgment about their worthiness to receive Communion.

It is also up to those distributing Communion to deny the sacrament to those in conflict with the Church's prohibition of abortion and the duty of office holders to oppose the procedure.

“Apart from an individual’s judgment about his worthiness to present himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, the minister of Holy Communion may find himself in the situation where he must refuse to distribute Holy Communion to someone, such as in cases of a declared excommunication, a declared interdict, or an obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin.”

If a politician such as Kerry “still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it, ” Cardinal Ratzinger wrote.

He added that such as denial does not mean that the minister of Communion is judging the politician’s soul but is a reflection that he is in a state of obstinate persistence in manifest grave sin.

“Nor is the minister of Holy Communion passing judgment on the person’s subjective guilt, but rather is reacting to the person’s public unworthiness to receive Holy Communion due to an objective situation of sin.”

The document also address the issues of the death penalty and war, contrasting these issues and with abortion.

“Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia ... There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia,” Ratzinger wrote.

The memo was one of the subjects of an interim report by a task force of seven bishops established to address the Communion question.

The topic was also addressed by the American Bishops during their mid-June meeting in Dallas.

At that meeting the Bishops approved a document titled “Catholics in Political Life” which while it had harsh words for pro-abortion leaders, did not make specific recommendations on whether or not they should be denied Communion instead leaving the decision to individual Bishops.

Implicit in what the the Cardinal was saying, however, is that the bishops are required to state unambiguously that pro-abortion politicians must be denied Holy Communion, thus removing the decision from the bishops' discretion.

Spinaker/Monkey: My earlier post reflects that I share your concerns about the new Pope, but as Progressives we need to wait and see. Pope John Paul really did reach out to the Jewish community and I have a hard time believing Ratzinger will just chunk that. The German people from what I observed while visiting Munich several years ago are sensitive to reliving Nazism, and while there is a rise of fringe antisemitism, I just don't think that represents the common German citizen. In fact I think they are trying to get beyond that. It no more represents the current German culture than American skinheads or the Terry Nichols type represent the American culture.

I was one of the first on the Kerry blog to attack the Catholic position especially those in Colorado Springs who unfairly and relentlessly attacked John Kerry.

But those who have or are reading Jim Wallis and God's Politics understand that as Progressives we need to have a new conversation about religion and politics and the last thing we need to do is start by immediately attacking the new Pope.

Let's give him a chance to prove our worst fears about him wrong.Hopefully he will follow in Pope John Paul's footsteps regarding Peace, Justice and the Poor.

New pope a conservative who divided Germans
But Ratzinger a favorite son in Alpine hills of Bavaria

The Associated Press

TRAUNSTEIN, Germany - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger alienated some Roman Catholics in Germany with his zeal enforcing church orthodoxy. But in the conservative Alpine foothills of Bavaria where he grew up, he remains a favorite son who many think will make a good pope.

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Ratzinger, a rigorously conservative guardian of doctrinal orthodoxy who turned 78 on Saturday and was chosen the Catholic Church’s 265th pontiff Tuesday, went into the Vatican conclave a leading candidate to succeed Pope John Paul II.

“Only someone who knows tradition is able to shape the future,” said the Rev. Thomas Frauenlob, who heads the seminary in Traunstein where Ratzinger studied and regularly returns to visit.

Clashes with fellow Germans
But opinion about him remains deeply divided in Germany, a sharp contrast to John Paul, who was revered in his native Poland. A recent poll for Der Spiegel news weekly said Germans opposed Ratzinger becoming pope outnumbered supporters 36 percent to 29 percent, with 17 percent having no preference. The poll of 1,000 people, taken April 5-7, gave no margin of error.

Many blame Ratzinger for decrees from Rome barring Catholic priests from counseling pregnant teens on their options and blocking German Catholics from sharing communion with their Lutheran brethren at a joint gathering in 2003.

Ratzinger has clashed with prominent theologians at home, most notably the liberal Hans Kueng, who helped him get a teaching post at the University of Tuebingen in the 1960s. The cardinal later publicly criticized Kueng, whose license to teach theology was revoked by the Vatican in 1979.

'He has hurt many people'
He has also sparred openly in articles with fellow German Cardinal Walter Kasper, a moderate who has urged less centralized church governance and is considered a dark horse papal candidate.

“He has hurt many people and far overstepped his boundaries in Germany,” said Christian Wiesner, spokesman for the pro-reform Wir Sind Kirche, or We Are Church movement.

Read more...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7560325/

Frist Only Interested in Stacking the Courts. Boy that really makes me feel much better.

Frist: Filibuster ban won't include bills
WASHINGTON (AP) - Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist pledged Tuesday that any effort by Republicans to ban Democratic filibusters of President Bush's judicial nominees would not apply to traditional filibusters that Senate rules permit the minority party to use on other legislative issues.

Frist admits that the NRA would be unhappy if 'they' would be blocked from filibustering gun laws.

Interesting: the filibuster should only be protected for those who agree with the Frist/Delay agenda. Interesting hypocrisy.

I just got on the Ed Shultz show and gave a national plug for the Democracy Cell blog site.
It was short but I hope many heard my reference. I talked about the filibuster real briefly.

BREAKING NEWS ON BOLTON --

Bolton Denied Partnership in Law Firm over abusive personality

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/000484.html

Sen. Joseph Biden, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, wants to postpone Tuesday's vote on the controversial nomination of John Bolton as U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, a senior aide to the lawmaker said.

The Delaware Democrat plans to ask the Republican majority to recall Bolton to answer more questions before the panel, the aide said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/04/19/bolton.senate/index.html

My argument to Ed was that the change to the filibuster rule should be framed as Protecting the Courts, and standing up to DeLay/Frist.

It smells a lot like what we went through here in Texas during the ReDistricting Fight. If you can't win in an election change the rules and guarantee success.

Way to go, Ira. Listening to Ed now, but I think I missed your call...

Ira--Ratzinger has a good history on reaching out to the jewish community. That wasn't my point. My point was more about what the fundamentalist community in America and abroad will be taking from this.

As always, we will wait and see. Personally, I think he stuck his nose into our politics with the Kerry refusal, and for that reason alone, I am not thrilled. Just another one who needs to MYOB ( Ratzinger, not you Ira, never you:))

Chafee just announced he will support Bolton. We should flood his office and let him know we will work against him in'06.

Anyone still have Chafee's phone number?

Lincoln Chafee

Washington Office:
141A Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510-3904
Phone: (202) 224-2921
Fax: (202) 228-2853

Main District Office:
170 Westminster St., Ste. 1100
Providence, RI 02903
Phone: (401) 453-5294
Fax: (401) 453-5085

Spinaker: My point is that the Democratic Party desperately needs to reconnect with the Catholic Church and I see it as counterproductive to start attacking a new Pope before he takes any official position. Its done and we need to move on.

defarge:

Chafee's Washington mailbox is full but he can still be reached at his Providence No. His secretary's response: we don't care if you ever contribute to our candidate. Smug.

There are many moderate Dems in Rhode Island. I pray they remember this vote in November 2006.
That is why we should not trust any Republican to do the right thing, including Susan Collins and the filibuster fight. They apparently want to be on all sides of the electorate. I am sure that Rove and the neocons will approve of Chafee's vote.

I think as world citizens, as women across the planet, and as being interested in what happens in the developing world, we need to pay close attention to how our media and our government will be using the Papal office from here on out. The effect will be very direct in years to come.

Think about AIDS, think about overpopulation. Think about countries brought to the brink economically with no means to sustain themselves other than to procreate.

I am not thrilled with what I'm finding out about the new Pope Benedict. I am a Catholic who ascribes to the deepest aspects of Christian spirituality: compassion, fairness and respect. I am concerned for women in this country and beyond about what the profound effects will be on a women's consciousness and personhood when their individuality, the right to determine our own destiny, is revoked. That right is not relativism. Its being humane.

Lugar just agreed to hold up the Bolton vote for a final vote til after the recess and further investigation and testimony.
Lets start calling Hagel and Chafee's office about this vote and let them know we are watching their vote.
Bolton may be required to come back for further questioning.
Thank you Joe Biden.
Apparently Voinevich is ready to defect and oppose Bolton. Lets please call Voinevich and say thank you.Apparently Bolton is shaking down international figures and Lugar was about to be embarassed so he just cut this deal with Biden.

Ira--I'm not attacking the Pope, for crying out loud. I was presenting a personal point of view about the fact that the Catholic Church had no business interfering in the Presidential elections. I thought it then as a Catholic and as a democrat, and I think it now. The other point I was making was that given the fact that the guy who told priests to refuse John Kerry communion last summer, just became Pope. I am pretty sure that the fundamentalist right is going to interpret that fact as now having the Vatican "officially" on their side, whereas, the Vatican has previously been neutral on the matter of elections, and focusing on issues instead.

What worked for me last summer with the strongly Catholic Democrats in my family who are anti abortion was to have a discussion with them about what they were concerned about, namely abortion, because on all other things, they agreed with Kerry. They completely came around when I brought them articles with the statistics about abortions and teen pregnancy and how much both fell under the Clinton Presidency and how much they have risen during the Bush Presidency.

On a very simplistic level, I am thinking that the choice of a conservative (especially one who has been actively commenting on American political processes) is another message to us to stay vigilant and busy.

It often feels to me, lately, as if we are in a siege. Every once in a while, a flaming ball comes over the wall, but mostly, it feels like watchful waiting, interspersed with skirmishes.

I can think of no better community with which to hang while we await the attacks and flaming balls than those here.

Heads up everyone. Lady Liberty needs us to pay attention.

spinaker: I worked in Denver and Colorado Springs where the Catholic Church was savaging Kerry. I agree with you 110% that the Catholic Church unwisely stuck its nose into our Presidential campaign. John Kennedy probably sqeaked out his election, which was historic, b/c the Catholic Church supported and probably wanted a Catholic in the Whitehouse.

I am convinced that if the Catholic Church had kept its nose out of politics, which by its 501(3)(c)tax exempt status they are required to do, either this blog site would not exist or it would have another structure b/c it would be commenting on President Kerry.

Catholics tend to vote marginally Democratic and we have to figure out how to do that again.

I am talking strictly politics here as I try always to do at the annoyance of many, and just want to figure out how to stand on principle and start kissing up to the Catholic Church. I understand that many Catholics don't agree with Papal Doctrines but I just don't see how blogging criticisms about a new Pope get us to where we want to be in the next election cycle.Maybe its too much reading of Wallis.

I just called Voinevich and said thank you, please stand strong with your principles.

501 (c)(3).

Thank you Dems Biden and Dodd and Republican Voinevich for standing up to Bolton, they deserve a standing ovation.

I called Chaffee and expressed shock. I call Voinivitch and said thanks.

Ira, I am crabby today. Sick kid and no sleep for three days. It's me.

Ira,
Thanks for the good news about Voinevich. I almost fell off my chair when I read your post. That poor man must surely be tired of hearing from me because we never see things the same way. He never replies as promptly as Mike Dewine to tell me thanks for my opinion, but he is going to ignore it anyway. It will be a pleasure to be able to tell him thank you for once! I am so glad that he is standing up to Bolton since Chaffee caved.

DCP crew: Thanks for the newsletter. It was a lovely surprise. Keep up the good work!

spinaker: I don't know how you can handle 3 toddlers and still make it here to post such insightful political insight. I admire you for your stamina.

Kay we really need Voinevich to come on bd next week with Frist' nuclear plans. Voinevich is rather quirky and tends to surprise me at times.
It wouldn't hurt to let him know as Dems that we appreciate and support his independence which I know is difficult in his party. That would be heresy here in Texas so we really appreciate and admire Republicans.

That would be heresy here in Texas so we really appreciate and admire Republicans when they show independence from their party.

Got the newsletter. I'm quite impressed. Thanks DCP. I feel motivated to write and make some more calls. I'm going to forward this letter to some of my friends now.

The more I hear about Ratzinger throughout the day, the less I like. But this was not a suprise.

John Paul II stacked the College of Cardinals. Under his rule, the Catholic church took a significant turn to the right in areas of fundamental human freedom. Ratzinger will likely take his Church further in that direction. He is welcome to do it. But I advise him to read his Newton. For every action, there is an inevitable reaction. And eventually, freedom of conscience and freedom of action must triumph. This is one of the persistent themes in human history.

As John Adams wrote to his son, John Quincy Adams in 1816:

"Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it."

Those are words of wisdom that I pray that the new Pope Benedict has the good sense to take to heart.

Re the new pope! This is the same guy that admonished a nun for ministering to gays and lesbians. Also the very same one saying the priest abuse scandal was a "media frenzy." How "christain" is that?? Ratzinger wants to go back to the middle ages and is against VaticanII.
With Rat in power expect no catholic dem apply for high office in 06' or 08'.
Here's the profile:
http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/update/conclave/pt041905e.htm

Posted by: monkey at April 19, 2005 01:54 PM

I am not surprised. Bavaria is to Germany what the Deep South is to the United States. (Except Munich, which would probably correspond to New Orleans, Silicon Valley, Los Angeles, and Detroit all rolled into one.)

The more I find out about Benedict XVI, the less I like him, and my suspicion of the Catholic Church grows. Lately I've removed myself from the Christian culture of death anyway.