As Soldiers Die, Another Marble Wall Grows In Washington

Thanks for the list. I'm putting the whole thing onto Vets for Peace.

DiAnne,

I tried to put it here in this post, but it won't fit, even broken up.

It's just so very long.

Casey
That's ok - I think we can get ahold of it tomorrow. We want to do something with it, definitely. There was an event in Minneapolis where people also painted the names of some of the thousands of Iraqi civilians who have been killed onto huge banners. Somewhere between 21-24,000 according to http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
all of whom were once innocent sleeping babies.

I can not recognize the concept of "enemy" with respect to another human being. I guess I've never been susceptible to the brainwashing.

Yesterday morning one song we sang in our Sunday church service was America the Beautiful. Someone had fixed the altar with a lovely display of two American flags, and two bows flanking each flag were of red, white and blue. The bows had a blue background with white stars, and the ribbons hanging down were red and white stripes. There were also lovely flowers in red and white.
The grief over all this war means struck me as I viewed it and sang our song about America the Beautiful. I must say, a much more solemn man was at the pulpit today. I saw grief on his face, too. He spoke of the evil present in the world today, and made some references to the present state of affairs, and also made reference to his disappointment in some leaders in our nation. (Yes, he did!) It was a far cry from the proud, pompous man and statement made last fall by the same person. THIS man is starting to get the picture. There is hope.

Did you all see Doonesbury? He is also listing the names of Americans who died in Iraq....(maybe Iraq & Afghanistan-am not sure)

Truth-did you pass Willis's book to this fellow? It seems to be good for a certain type of Christian to open their eyes....

I want to give a shout out to Truth Shall Prevail. This person's persistence at truth and justice has made a difference in his/her home town. The man at the pulpit would not be where he is without Truth's commitment to seeing clearly despite the smoke and mirrors of this administration.

I remember the posts from last fall--the serious questioning of us all, as Truth sorted out fact from fiction. We have all come so far, thanks to his/her integrity.

The DCP is a learning and teaching community--all voices are important. Truth Shall Prevail pretty much sums up the goal in the name alone.

When we lose our soul, we lose our nation, and the terrorists have won...

U.S. general defends Guantanamo procedures
Myers defends treatment of prisoners in ‘different kind of war’

The Associated Press
ET May 30, 2005

WASHINGTON - Terrorism suspects held in the U.S. Navy prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, are being dealt with “humanely” and with “dignity,” the nation’s top military officer says in disputing reported abuses.

In television appearances Sunday, Air Force Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff also said U.S. officials believe al-Qaida leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is wounded, but it’s not known how badly.

Muslims in several countries have demonstrated in recent weeks over allegations that a Quran, their faith’s holy book, was flushed down a toilet by guards at Guantanamo. Myers denied that.

‘A different kind of war’
The human rights group Amnesty International also released a report last week calling the prison camp “the gulag of our time.”

Myers said the report was “absolutely irresponsible.” He said the United States was doing its best to detain fighters who, if released, “would turn right around and try to slit our throats, slit our children’s throats.”

“This is a different kind of struggle, a different kind of war,” Myers said on “Fox News Sunday.”

“We struggle with how to handle them (the prisoners), but we’ve always handled them humanely and with the dignity that they should be accorded.”

Myers repeated the Pentagon’s contention that five cases of mistreatment of the Quran at Guantanamo had been confirmed. He did not give any other details about the mistreatment.

Read more feeble attempts at justifying this behavior ...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8027275/

OMG,

That list is so long. I can't believe how much it has grown in just one year.

I wonder how many people thought we would be completely out of Iraq by now?

Probably the same number that thought we would be out of Vietnam in 1967.

Shouting it out to Truth...good work. It's important to stop and think about the ripple effect that Bobby Kennedy talked about. By touching this man, he in turned touched a whole church full of people, and they in turn will talk to others.

This is how both truth and Truth work.

Committment to change is astonishing to watch in action.

I am proud to be a member of this fine community.

I am proud to be a member of this fine community.

Posted by: spinnaker at May 30, 2005 09:49 AM

Oh, but if you feel like loving me
If you got the notion
I second that emotion
Said, if you feel like giving me
A lifetime of devotion
I second that emotion

Posted by: mOnKeY at May 30, 2005 10:09 AM

word.

thirds-eys.

You have to see this cartoon - it relates to yesterday's topic about the Downing Street Memo.

http://www.troubletown.com/cartoons/index.html

During the Vietnam war, our minister in South Dakota (a small Republican-oriented town) became convinced the Vietnam War was wrong. Eventually he had only 3 people left one Sunday - two old ladies and my dad. It was through Methodist Church camp at Lk Poinsett SD that I was exposed to alot of soul-searching about ethical issues of the day, actually. We weren't told what to believe then, we were engaged in discussions and encouraged to think hard.

My son thinks that alot of 'right-to-work' states are conservative because unions are kept out & unions are a good vehicle for education & organization of ideas that aren't necessarily consistent with the fat cats getting most of the pie.

I learned alot in the Dakotas and that is where I worked for Eugene McCarthy (from MN) campaign in high school and George McGovern (from SD) campaign in college. It was sometimes an uphill battle, but those states have produced some good people. I have to think first and foremost of Paul Wellstone. Tom Brokaw (SD) spoke at my graduation at USD.

It will be interesting for me to be back in the Dakotas and MN later in June!

Needs no introduction:

Paul Krugman: Too Few, Yet Too Many

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/053005Z.shtml

U-S military says it mistakenly detained Sunni leader

BAGHDAD, Iraq The military says it has released a Sunni political leader it mistakenly detained in a raid in Baghdad today.
The man who was arrested is the head of Iraq's largest Sunni Arab political party and once served as president of the U-S-backed Iraqi Governing Council, which has since been dissolved.

Party officials say U-S forces took him from his home this morning in an anti-insurgent offensive. His party has been against "Operation Lighting" warning that security forces would trample on innocent people's rights.

The military says it didn't realize who it had arrested until it interviewed him. It also says "Coalition forces regret any inconvenience."

http://www.wavy.com/global/story.asp?s=3407764&ClientType=Printable

Memoriam

We congregate on this solemn day of remembrance to honor the Fallen...those humble citizens and soldiers who have given the ultimate sacrifice to protect our freedom...for all those whose lives have been transformed by tragedy, driven by courage and whose enduring strength and selflessness through their valiant actions of true heroism are an inspiration to us all.

We gather together to honor our living warriors…the men and women who so magnanimously offer them selves as the protectors and defenders of this great Nation and all that we as a people stand for across our diverse civilization...let us each take a moment to personally reflect upon the magnitude of that which they have been burdened.

As we contemplate in awe and humility before the legacy of our heroes, may WE THE PEOPLE derive the inner strength to face and overcome our shared doubts and sorrows, our insecurities and pain, our anger and fear so that we may, in their memory and for the future memory of generations to come, endure to bring those who have committed these atrocities against humanity to meet justice.

We may ask ourselves how we, humble citizens of this world, can influence the chance necessary to overcome such overwhelming deceit and malice and avarice within our government?

When we live our lives as the world should be, not how it is, we effect the people around us...our families...our friends...our neighbors...we become the voice of reason when we live by our principles and convictions...we become the Truth.

We become the Truth through our sincerity in action, character and utterance. We espouse the Truth when we present the body of real things, events and facts. We are the Truth when we live a transcendent fundamental reality based upon the principles of this great Nation...meaning we take action based upon our duty and responsibility as Americans to ensure the rights of all of humanity are secured, protected and preserved within our natural rights as human beings.

May we be blessed with the foresight and wisdom to remember them always...the dignity to preserve their memory and the courage to protect their heroism, for they have divinely honored us by their selfless acts to secure our Freedom, even when unjustly sent to do battle with those who are not our enemies.

Finally...let us focus our efforts so that we may all vow to proudly stand united as Americans...with infinite passion and undying hope so one day soon We the People will once again regain control of our Heritage and restore our Nation as the Light of Liberty, Freedom and Justice…to set out henceforth to create a brighter future for all of mankind with the respect and honor so deserving of their memory.

Dare to create a better world.

Red and blue map of France

http://www.lefigaro.fr

It's the biggest story on the internet

If the Euro goes down enough, I'm buying!

Truth-did you pass Willis's book to this fellow? It seems to be good for a certain type of Christian to open their eyes....

Posted by: mkh at May 30, 2005 06:16 AM
Not yet, MKH, but it is a good idea!
~*~
remember the posts from last fall--the serious questioning of us all, as Truth sorted out fact from fiction.

Posted by: Karen at May 30, 2005 08:24 AM
~*~
Posted by: spinnaker at May 30, 2005 09:49 AM
~*~
I second that emotion

Posted by: mOnKeY at May 30, 2005 10:09 AM

~*~

Another really exciting thing is, it doesn't stop at making a difference in one life, as you all said. It has a ripple effect, that I have the joy of watching. One of the top church leaders and I have been spending alot of time together and baring our souls. This person is very sincere, and very intelligent, and a lover of good. He/She abhors the kind of evil we have been wrestling with in America these past blood soaked, degrading, morally depraved, corporate building years since 2000. But, I have YOU to thank, DCP!

When I went to the Kerry/Edwards blog last fall I was angry and frustrated and ready to lynch my t.v. The ridiculous farce that is supposed to be "news" in this country almost reduced me to riot mode. I desperately logged on to that blog, and was met by Indy, KiK, slugbug and Ira too. I read and read and asked frantic questions. I have been married to my keyboard ever since!
Yes, the DCP is a place of teaching and learning, because you all have hearts of gold that are extremely rare and very valuable. The experience you all have, and the knowledge you share is worth so much - it is worth our freedom and the preservation of democracy. I thank you, each and every one. We have indeed been through alot together. You can't be here and not care fervently.

I second that emotion. Thank you DCP!!!! Thank you Dick and Karen for making this experience possible, and for helping us make our voices heard. This is such a valuable and necessary tool.
Thank you DCP CREW. Thank you for your time, hard work, and commitment. Thank you for listening to and sharing my journey with me, and allowing me to share yours. It is a rich journey. Thank you for all the hours you labor so the truth can be available to all who thirst for it. Thank you Casey for sleepless nights spent writing and editing articles, networking with other groups and blogs (yes I saw a note of thanks on another blog you posted at 2:30 a.m. one morning thanking others for participating in the fillablog.) Thank you Suz for your precious personality and energy you share when doing your channeling, and for how you motivate us by word and example to take action! Thank you DiAnne for being kind and funny and dedicated, for the endless witty and informative articles and stories you share with us all. Your humour has sent me on my way laughing many a time. Thank you Matt for the many, many hours you dedicated to your fine articles on Sunday, and for listening to my sometimes inane statements and questions, and for being always the gentleman and answering them sincerely. Thank you for caring enough to give your very best, and for making me think, and helping me see beyond my narrow scope of experience and helping me be more respectful of other's reality. Thank you Marc, for the memories, lol. Thanks for the songs, the passion, the character you show. Your one man comedy act ain't bad either. Thanks Indy, for sharing your intelligence, wit, passion, and knowledge with us all. Thank you for extending your hand to me that first night I ever ventured on the blog, with my heart in my shaking hand. Thank you Tutt for caring enough to post your very best, and for caring enough to be very dynamic in all your posts and actions. Thank you Polly, for making me laugh one Saturday night until my stomach hurt and tears were rolling down my cheeks. I am serious, I almost fell off my chair laughing. Thank you Victory.4.Dems for supplying us with many hours of quality reading by posting your most informative articles. Thanks Oncall for your sincerity, your precious strong and gentle soul, your honesty, and your commitment. You are the ultimate gentleman. Thanks Battle Bob for answering my questions. Thanks PC DOC for your hard work keeping the IRC going. Thanks Sunflower for your words of encouragement. Thanks Bob Evans for sharing your insight with us. Thanks Otter for reminding us of what's important. Thanks Fe, Victoria, Marjorie, Mary from Manhattan, Michelle, Rossianne in Australia, Andree' in France, Amy, Patti F., for being vital parts of this endeavor. You have all contributed and taught me something and touched my soul, and you are a beloved part of this family! What a rich experience. What a rich community!!

If you read just a small portion of the names on that list, look at the Ages of those brave soldiers. It seems over half are 18-23 years old. So much Courage and Honor in such young Americans.

They Fight without required/Promised Armor, they cannibalize disabled equipment, they are mailed equipment from relatives because our Government is unable to meet obligations. And yet they serve their Nation.

That This Administration could match their courage, and follow the example of Honor in serving their country. That would be something.

Truth Shall Prevail

Thank you for your honesty, original thought, tireless quest for truth and your outreach to others for community building on the internet and where you live. It is an inspiration.

The following isn't meant to you personally or to any other bloggers in particular. It's just sometimes I've come to feel after decades of coffeehouse discussions, long letters, reading LTEs, working on campaigns or projects, going on protests, talking with relatives, and also from travel and interaction with those from other places.

One thing that I would like to see is that we work (as part of our "continuing education") to be able to fruitfully dialogue/argue/debate/brainstorm without it getting personal. We need to keep our journey open-ended so our minds don't close.

As I've been on the old Kerry blog and this one and others such as the Guardian for almost 4 years now (meaning total of all blogging), I've seen alot of growth by people in this area. I've seen trolls debated soundly and made to think. I've seen people perceive insult where it wasn't meant and eventually figure it out. I've seen people put foot (or feet) in mouth (myself included) and good repairs were done or understandings come to.

I don't think we always have to come to "consensus" and I don't think it's always constructive to "agree to disagree" because then we don't learn as much. I've always loved it when people actually modified or shifted their positions somewhat. I personally think it's good for people to not "harden" in their beliefs too much.

I have alot of the same beliefs that I had when I was only 15 - they haven't changed. Times have changed and I've tested and tested the beliefs, so I don't think I've been dogmatic. I just think that I happened onto a few truths and had a few good mentors.

There are elements of what you've seen in different bloggers in the best discussions and sharings. Humor - that keeps it light but also allows in some awkward or "heavy" matter than needs to come to light. Passion - that's when people feel strongly and have conviction and can bring this across emotionally. Logic - that's where we back up our facts. Now when these are combined, it's powerful. There is one more element and this is that part that I think takes work. We need to not identify too strongly with our arguments and sometimes even admit when parts of them are wrong. That's when the learning occurs, at least in my experience.

I have had a few experiences where people were not able to stay calm when unable to "convince" someone to their position or even chose to cut off communication rather than work it out, agree to not focus on the disagreement. & I think of how much could have been learned and wasn't.

Related to not taking arguments personally or seeing them as a "bad" thing (but more like "debate," where the arguments need to be buttressed with some evidence or at least something that makes sense for coming to such a position). & that's how to handle grief and disappointment (such as over the election) and keep going. For me, it's been 1) dealing with the darkness, 2) humor and 3) personally taking care of myself. Dealing with the darkness means continuing to read the most sinister and depressing news daily but realizing that all through history terrible things have happened and to most people. Humor is needed to keep the journey going, realizing that it will probably be for all of our lifetimes and beyond that. Personally taking care of oneself means not burning it all out on one issue or one political race or anythign like that, but pacing oneself to go on. This means getting sleep, eating well and having balance.

I like to think about when I'm in France and I don't understand what people are saying at the table but I know they're talking about politics. I hear and see people get animated and emotional and raise their voices but I don't see any lasting animosity. I know that I'm watching the body language of people who in their culture know how to argue without taking the argument personally and this is what I'd like to see more people be able to do.

I used to have alot of students from the middle east and from Asia they were always very very politically engaged. They could be from anywhere on the political spectrum but what I never did see was apathy. I thought that probably they came from an area that had been in political turmoil for a very long time and not knowing what was going on had not been an option. Some had gone through regime change (Iran) or government brutality (Tienneman Square) and being in denial would have been a luxury they did not have access to.

I believe that we are like that now, & we have to be strong. Speaking of France, they have just had a very harsh thing happen in their country and the Netherlands is next and I want to be of support to those I know, as they were during our election. I remember people staying up til 4 AM to hear our primaries. Getting Bush out of office affected them too, but it was a whole planet and it still is.

End of rant & thank you all.