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Americans Do Not Feel Safer


From WaPo:

For the first time since the war in Iraq began, more than half of the American public believes the fight there has not made the United States safer, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.

And yet we can see that reality has a hard time finding a home on the MSNBC site, since when I was on there last night, there was NO mention of this poll whatsoever.

This development brings to mind a couple of questions about both parties.

One for the Republicans--do they even care what the National Security numbers look like right now, since the election is over a year away?

One for the Democrats--are they going to see this as an opportunity for pointing out to the public the breathtaking incompetence of the Bush administration in managing the war in Iraq?

One for the Media--are they ever going to wake up and stop calling Bush "popular" and saying that Americans feel safer without Saddam in power?

29 Comments

monkey said:

Afghan attack kills 2 U.S. service members
Mortar bomb fired at American military base wounds eight

The Associated Press
June 8, 2005

KABUL, Afghanistan - Two U.S. forces were killed and another eight wounded in a mortar attack Wednesday at a base in eastern Afghanistan, the military said.

The attack occurred in eastern Paktika province near the border with Pakistan. The wounded were rushed to nearby U.S.-led coalition bases for treatment.

Initially, a military statement said only one service member had been killed, but spokesman Lt. Col. Jerry O’Hara later raised the number to two, with eight wounded.

The mortar landed in the base near Shkin while the victims were preparing to unload supplies from a CH-47 Chinook helicopter, the military said.

'A tragic loss for all of us'
Coalition aircraft were deployed to the area but could not locate the insurgents, the statement said.

“This is a tragic loss for all of us,” said Army Brig. Gen. James G. Champion, Combined Joint Task Force-76 deputy commanding general for operations.

The names of those killed were withheld until their families are notified.

After a winter lull, loyalists to the ousted Taliban regime and other militants opposed to the U.S.-backed government of President Hamid Karzai have ramped up their insurgency with bombings and other attacks.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8141146/

dwahzon said:


Military injustice
Iraq vet Jullian Goodrum blasted his superiors for misdeeds that he says cost a soldier his life. His reward: The Army he once loved refused to treat his psychological wounds, then charged him with desertion.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/07/whistleblower/index.html

Yes you have to watch the free pass video... but you must read this article...

Something's not right...

tutterfly said:

Americans do not feel safer. Wasn't it Dick, along with a whole chorus of us chiming in, who agreed that national security would always be a BIG issue with voters? We can have candidates who win on every issue, but as soon as a 'terra alert' comes out, and the punditocracy gets out there talking about how weak Dems are on security, all the other issues dry up and stop counting. Somewhere in this 'don't feel safer' poll, lies success in 06 and 08. Sure, there will be Iraq, but we will be treated to how much better the world is without Saddam, as though he was poised to sail across the ocean and invade.

So, if it comes to national security, the time to take control of the issue is at hand. It is not good enough to say Republicans have not secured the borders, the ports,nuke and chemical plants,checked luggage. EVERYONE knows that, but there hasn't been another 9-11, dontcha know. Disconnect. As soon as the spectre of 9-11 is brought up, the discussion is over.

If Americans don't feel safer, and its nearly four years after the fact, people need to have the door opened to start asking why. They have to be reassured that its WRONG to be cowed if their questions are answered with the twin pillars of Republican-speak, 9-11 and safer without Saddam. Let people know that it's okay not to accept that anymore. It does not dishonor the innocent dead of that horrible day, and it does not dishonor the soldiers in Iraq. If someone wants to be elected for office and THEY refuse to stand up to that line, then why would a voting public stand up and back them?

I beleive that the people who say that don't feel safer are looking for candidates who are willing to bring their concerns into the open. If people feel Republicans don't make them feel safe, and Democrats can't talk about it, where do they go? Republicans get to seem saying there hasn't been another 9-11, but all Democrats can respond to that statement with is a blank nod. Wonderful. Where is there a reason to line up with the Dems in that?

If the Dems intend to address security and safety in a manner that ignites people, the time is now. What will be different, better, effective with Dems leading the way in security issues?

Karen said:

tutt,

It's the old willingness to stand up for what they believe, rather than continuously compromising--

Dems need to fight for what they believe and present less of a conciliatory face. And of course, the great irony of that conciliatory face is that it is what the Repubs accused them of NOT having during the Clinton years.

The Repubs will damn the Dems if they fight and damn them if they don't.

Dems may as well fight--at least there's a chance of winning that way!

monkey said:

(Safer my Aunt Mavis! Name another war in which America fought which was so heavily laden with private contractors... fallujah the money! See the bottom paragraph for another of the REAL reasons why we are there)

Military investigates American guards in Iraq
Contractors allegedly went on shooting spree in Fallujah

The Associated Press
Updated: 5:57 a.m. ET June 9, 2005

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Sixteen private American security guards are under investigation for shooting at U.S. Marines and Iraqi civilians during a three-hour spree west of Baghdad, the military said Thursday.

The Marines said the 16 Americans and three Iraqi contractors were arrested and held in a military jail for three days after spraying small arms fire at Iraqi civilians and U.S. forces from their cars in Fallujah late last month. There were no casualties.

Many Iraqis resent high-profile security details who speed along highways in sports utility vehicles bristling with automatic weapons. Senior government officials, who are prime targets of militants wreaking havoc across Iraq, use private security firms for their own protection.

No charges have been filed yet following the May 28 shootings.

-snip-

Iraq’s rampant insecurity has spawned a thriving private security industry comprising Iraqis and former military personnel from military forces around the world to protect foreign contractors working on reconstruction projects, journalists and senior government officials and diplomats.

Read more... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7897149/

Carol said:

At the end of the previous thread, Amy was asking what the one single issue was that we could gather around - protest under (there are so many). I think another key is we need one big name to lead the charge.

Back in 2000, I attended the million mom march on the mall, with a quite impressive estimate of 750,000 others. This took place when Rosie O'Donnell was still in her heyday with her talk show. She talked about the issue every day on her show. She was going to be there. We all loved her, and hated the Columbine tragedy, and followed her to DC.

We need someone like THAT to lead the charge. Ellen might be good. John Stewart probably not quite visible enough. Brad Pitt? John Cusack? Green Day? All of the above? It sounds shallow - but big names bring out the crowds - it's an EXTRA reason to come. Not that we need one.

victoria ellen said:

From AmericaBlog:

(This pretty much tells you everything you need to know about the "Values" of the Mr. Perkins, the Family Research Council Director.)

The Family Research Council's executive director, Tony Perkins, reportedly paid former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke over $80,000 for his who's-who-of-racist-America mailing list in 1996.

==========================
Because really, when you think about it, what's a better example of American Family Values than the wholesome and Christian activities pursued by the KKK...

I'm thinkin this deserves spreadin over the field folks... it will make things grow...

Please share the love throughout the blogosphere.

Carol said:

Posted by: victoria ellen at June 9, 2005 10:11 AM

Read the post on Americablog. What is wrong with people???? They just have no sense. Before we know it, the entire religious right will be refusing food once we get a democrat in the white house.

Hmmmmm.....;-)

dwahzon said:

Very interesting article Victoria...

For those who like verification before they pass info onto others, here's the link to the americablog article:
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/06/family-research-council-and-ku-klux.html

and here's where they source it from:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20050509&s=blumenthal

and that article says: "In 1996 Perkins paid former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke $82,500 for his mailing list. At the time, Perkins was the campaign manager for a right-wing Republican candidate for the US Senate in Louisiana. The Federal Election Commission fined the campaign Perkins ran $3,000 for attempting to hide the money paid to Duke."

so evidently it's in their FEC financial filing paperwork.

Actually the whole article from The Nation is worth reading because what they talk about, among other things, is how closely tied the people who organized Justice Sunday are to white supremacist organizations such as the CCC and KKK, and that's who Frist was hanging with Justice Sunday.

madame defarge said:

Posted by: Amy at June 8, 2005 10:44 PM
Posted by: oncall at June 9, 2005 12:12 AM
Posted by: sparrow at June 9, 2005 06:31 AM

This is in response to some comments made in the last thread about what single issue, single leader, single voice we should unite over...

I agree, but I also feel very strongly that we need to do more than unite. We need to provide solutions. It's well and good to make obvious the culture of corruption and the abuse of power in this administration, but we must define viable strategies that show how we will solve these problems.

Carol said:

In addition to the link posted above on FRC and the KKK, is the story here http://www.americablog.org/
1/3 of the way called: Family Research Council urges Africans to starve rather than accept money from pro-gay churches

Where Tony Perkins of the FRC is encouraging Africans to starve to death, rather than take money from the american episcopal church, because it has a gay pastor in NH.

Looks like a VERY thinly veiled effort to continue the genocide over there. And this guy calls himself a Christian? Who would Jesus starve, anyway?

dwahzon said:

Just for fun, a feature on oneamericacommittee blog that links to all the (non-scientific) polls for the day:

http://blog.oneamericacommittee.com/index.pl?section=polls

Looks like it's a daily feature...

victoria ellen said:

DeLay behind Congressional Budget Rule Overhaul

http://www.thehill.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/060905/delay.html
======================================
Yeah, that's what we need... Tom DeLay helping write budgetary rules. Would this be the guy who's campaign committee defaulted on a bank loan that they invested badly?

Might be time to light that burner again, and send Tommy the TitMouse scurrying back to his hole.

oncall said:

Posted by: madame defarge at June 9, 2005 10:49 AM

Madame,

I agree solutions have to be presented. One of the problems, as I see it, is there is no one solution that is best for the myriad of disasters that this country is living through. Presenting the Bushco powers as the deceitful, lying, greedy, power hungry corporate dominionists that they are will not be enough, but it is a good start. The solutions as presented will have to be rock solid. Just as the Republicans do, the message has to be uniform. Staying "on message" will be critical.

I would like to ammend my slogan from the previous thread from "Vote for Change" to "Vote for a Change". That slogan might just motivate more people to get out and vote.

victoria ellen said:

DAILY DELAY

Ethics Committee Shuts Down (again)- DeLay's Pals Save Him (Again)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/08/AR2005060802366_pf.html

Amy said:


"But I believe he died because they had oil to save"

Where, oh where is the media which in years past would have thoroughly investigated suspicions like this? Where is the journalist who would connect the dots for the average American, who would painstakingly follow the money, the documentation, the timelines, and present that information to the public? Where are our heroes?

Without a free and responsible media, America will never demand answers from their government. The blogosphere could be on fire with truth and 89% of America would still be in the dark.

Every night I pray that some angel will come down to earth and take ahold of David Brock, and shake him and say "You've got to scream louder." We need a David Brock who likes girls, sounds like a Republican, and can speak to America in fiery sound bites....

oncall said:

Casey,

To answer your question about the media waking up. The simple answer is, no.

sparrow said:

Posted by: Carol at June 9, 2005 09:58 AM

I'll do it. Send me!

Amy said:

Oncall, vote for a change is the name of Boxer's PAC. Personally, I think that vote for a change is too general as issue at this juncture.

There is a group of academics who have a website about activism. It's a great site, can't remember the name of it. Still looking. During the 2004 election, at some point the whole first page was full of links to academic articles about why these sorts of general slogans and causes don't work against deep-seated corruption. We need a specific, provable issue, uncluttered by any others.

I have a personal example of what I mean. When I was in my 20s, I unknowingly married an alcoholic pedophile. He quickly became a powerful member of the legal community in our city, with very powerful friends, and yes, he was a conservative and outwardly very religious. I had a three year old before I realized who he really was - he was an expert at appearing likeable, sincere and above reproach, a consumate liar. He was also, like the Bushes, an expert at vengeance.

It took me over three years to get custody of my daughter, (who had already been approached by some of his friends by the time I got her away from him.) I finally got a very smart lawyer who told me that I would never convince the court of either his alcoholism or his pedophilia, and that I would have to take a completely different tack in order to protect my daughter.

I did. I went back to court and arged a single solitary and specific issue that did not make it sound like he was the totally flawed human being that he is. It was a completely practical argument, and it worked.

The courts did finally catch up with him, thanks to the Children's Aid, the national newspaper in Canada and an investigative reporter with balls.

But my point is that there are times when we have to be a lot smarter than just arguing "These guys are nuts! Look at all the screw-ups! They're immoral! Get them out of there!"

We need to unite under a single, specific issue. We have to be able to contrast our non-neocon stance on this issue clearly, with few words.

I still have not heard anything better than Bill Clinton's argument from the 2004 Dem convention -Republicans today believe in power being concentrated in the hands of the wealthiest few; Democrats believe in power being shared by all Americans. There are plenty of examples of the way this administration has concentrated power in the hands of the wealthiest few.

Who has the power? With regard to the Bush War, the environment, fiscal health, domestic issues - who has the power?

Amy said:

An Associated Press story about the changing Demographics in America:

WASHINGTON - One of every seven people in the United States is Hispanic, a record number that probably will keep rising because of immigration and a birth rate outstripping that of non-Hispanic blacks and whites.

snip

The population growth for Asians ran a close second. Increases in both groups are due largely to immigration, but also higher birth rates, said Lewis W. Goodman, an American University expert on U.S.-Latin American relations.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8147476

Wonder why the Republicans have been targeting Hispanics and Asians?

Amy said:

How to win friends and influence people:

French Journalist Describes Mistreatment by U.S. Forces During Siege of Fallujah *

French TV journalist Grégoire Deniau describes his ordeal in U.S. custody in Iraq. He was detained for a day during the siege of Fallujah in April 2004. He says despite showing his passport and French press ID, U.S. soldiers forced him to kneel for hours, gaffer-taped a hood over his face and hurled insults at him, calling him a dog and accused him, as a Frenchmen, of being pro-Arab. Deniau says he was released late at night, in the middle of the desert and was warned by the soldiers that US forces shoot everything that moves.

Listen/Watch/Read http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/08/140259

* French Reporter Kidnapped by Iraqi Resistance For 4 Months Says Bush Brought Al Qaeda to Iraq *

We speak with French reporter Christian Chesnot of Radio France who was kidnapped - along with reporter Georges Malbrunot of the Daily Figaro - by the Iraqi resistance. They were held for four months, from August to December 21st 2004.

Listen/Watch/Read http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/08/141203

sparrow said:

Amy--my suggestion from the previous thread...

Posted by: sparrow at June 9, 2005 06:31 AM

Carol said:

my statement: Do you really feel safer now? Because I don't. We're much worse off now internationally, and they can't stop any one here who really wants to do something. We're not winning anything in Iraq. We're broke as a country. Our military is smaller than anytime since the draft - and not by the governments choosing. We are ripe for the picking. Don't you think he might have wanted to think things through for a little while longer?


My neocon brother's response: "Yes I do feel safer now. There is a reason there have been no more attacks on US soil for the past nearly 4 years now. And, for as long as he is in office, there will be no question if some maniac dictator attempts to attack this country, that we will respond with crushing force."

That is their programmed answer. We need to be able to respond convincingly.

AllyMcLesbian said:

Wonder why the Republicans have been targeting Hispanics and Asians?

Posted by: Amy at June 9, 2005 12:20 PM

Not only that, they are more socially conservative - at least the ones we (or rather, the DHS under the Bush regime) let into the US. This conservative wave of immigration is the only way to explain why Los Angeles is no San Francisco when it comes to social issues.

AllyMcLesbian said:

My neocon brother's response: "Yes I do feel safer now. There is a reason there have been no more attacks on US soil for the past nearly 4 years now. And, for as long as he is in office, there will be no question if some maniac dictator attempts to attack this country, that we will respond with crushing force."

That is their programmed answer. We need to be able to respond convincingly.

Posted by: Carol at June 9, 2005 02:47 PM

But remember that someone on the brink WILL attack anyway and deal some serious damage to the US - because he'll be damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

North Korea is a perfect example of such a country. I am very worried, as I am pretty sure Kim Jong Il wants to strike Los Angeles, the largest city on the West Coast and home to many pro-Bush Korean-American sellouts.

Fe said:

Bush Says Patriot Act Makes America Safer By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer
57 minutes ago

COLUMBUS, Ohio - President Bush, facing efforts by some in his own party to scale back the post-Sept. 11 Patriot Act, says it has made America safer and should be made permanent.

"The Patriot Act closed dangerous gaps in America's law enforcement and intelligence capabilities, gaps the terrorists exploited when they attacked us on September the 11th," Bush said.

Lawmakers responded to the 2001 attacks by overwhelmingly approving the law 45 days later. It allowed expanded surveillance of terror suspects, increased use of material witness warrants to hold suspects incommunicado and permitted secret proceedings in immigration cases.

Now, more than a dozen provisions are set to expire. Those provisions, among other things, provide authority for nationwide search warrants, enable the FBI and intelligence agencies to share information about terrorism cases and gave the FBI the power to obtain records in terrorism-related cases from entities such as libraries.

During Bush' 2004 re-election campaign, he made preserving the law a common refrain, but he has rarely spoken of it since. His renewed focus came as Congress has begun working on the act's renewal amid fresh criticisms — from members of both parties — that it undermines basic freedoms.

Bush pressured Congress to make the expiring provisions permanent. His administration also is seeking greater powers for the FBI to subpoena records in terrorism investigations without the approval of a judge or grand jury.

"My message to Congress is clear: Terrorist threats against us will not expire at the end of the year and neither should the protections of the Patriot Act," Bush told more than 100 law enforcement officers.

The president credited the law with helping to bring federal charges against more than 400 suspects — more than half of whom have been convicted — and to break up terror cells in New York, Oregon, Virginia and Florida.

He spoke at the Ohio Patrol Training Academy to highlight the case of a Columbus man, Iyman Faris, who was accused of plotting attacks on a New York bridge and a Midwest shopping mall but was tracked down with the help of the Patriot Act.

Bush said Faris met Osama bin Laden in 2000 at an al-Qaida training camp in Afghanistan. Later, he received instructions from top terror leader Khalid Shaikh Mohammed to destroy the Brooklyn Bridge. Now, because of the Patriot Act, Bush said, Faris has provided information about al-Qaida and is serving a 20-year prison sentence.

On Tuesday, the Senate Intelligence Committee approved revisions to the law that would give the FBI the expanded administrative subpoena powers the Bush administration has been seeking.

But much of the debate in Congress so far has focused on possible limits to the law.

Sens. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, and Dick Durbin, D-Ill., want to tighten standards for the law's so-called "sneak and peek" warrants issued without immediate notification of the target and for "roving" wiretaps, and to exempt libraries from provisions that allow FBI expanded access to records.

The administration has warned that the Craig-Durbin bill would draw a Bush veto. The president did not repeat that threat, but he singled out the roving wiretap as an "especially important" tool that has been used successfully for years against drug dealers and others.

Bush also sought to defend the law by citing Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein (news, bio, voting record), D-Calif., who said she has looked into the administration's use of the Patriot Act and found no abuses.

"Remember that the next time you hear someone make an unfair criticism of this important, good law," Bush said.

Lisa Graves, the ACLU's senior counsel for legislative strategy, said the lack of a documented case of abuse doesn't mean the law doesn't violate civil liberties. She said the Justice Department's inspector general reported that 7,000 people have complained of abuse and countless others don't even know they've been subjected to a search because the law requires that they be kept secret.

The ACLU wants the government to show evidence of a connection to terrorist activity before being allowed to search records.

on.to.victory4Dems said:

[this writer discusses why America under GWB is living under a culture of fear]

A Foreign Policy Driven by Fear
by Gordon Livingston

snip~
Despite the facts, the administration's efforts to connect 9/11 to the war in Iraq have been a signal success. In fact, standing on the ash heap of mistakes and lies that have led to the deaths of more than 1,600 Americans, cost more than $100 billion and shows no sign of an early or favorable outcome, this administration was re-elected largely on the basis of its perceived competence to protect us from further terrorism. This is a triumph of fear over rationality.

If you doubt the role of fear in our lives, look at our current fondness for evangelical Christianity, with its visions of a rapture in which the believers are saved and the rest of humanity is consigned to apocalyptic punishment. Is it a coincidence that our fear-driven foreign policy is the creation of a faith-based administration?

In our reaction to 9/11, we immediately declared we were in a "war against evil." In fact, the destruction of the twin towers was the result of a criminal conspiracy involving perhaps 50 to 100 people. Our response, to seek out and punish the leaders of this conspiracy in Afghanistan, was a notable, if incomplete, success, and had we stopped there, we would be safer than we are today.

But what we did was to mount an invasion on an Arab country under false pretenses and then engage in behavior that has alienated most of the Muslim world. Now our troops and the citizens who are the objects of our "liberation" are the daily targets of terrorists.

read entire article~
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0609-30.htm

on.to.victory4Dems said:

Action Alert!
Congressman Conyers will hold hearings on DowningStreet Memo!!!

Downing Street Minutes Hearing
by Congressman John Conyers
Thu Jun 9th, 2005

I wanted to give you a brief update about the DSM activism we have been working on together, and to let you know that I am calling hearings on this issue.
snip~
on Thursday, a week from today, I will be holding a hearing with my Democratic colleagues to begin to hear evidence about the DSM. We will have a number of witnesses, including
Joe Wilson, who frequent readers here already know is a WMD expert and former Ambassador;
Ray McGovern, a 27-year CIA analyst;
Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq;
and John Bonifaz, a renowned Constitutional attorney. At the conclusion of the hearing, we will go to Lafayette Park and I will personally deliver your signatures to the White House.

This hearing is just one step in an investigation that I am commencing that will literally span the Atlantic. I am in touch with British officials and former U.S. intelligence officials and I am determined to get to the truth.

At the hearing, I will disclose information found to date, which includes the public release of newly discovered documents. While none of these documents are as damning as the DSM, they nonetheless bolster the accuracy of it.

more~
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/9/164632/9662

sparrow said:

Posted by: madame defarge at June 9, 2005 10:49 AM


Absolutely!!!

Costs

Cost of the War in Iraq

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