Who Is Responsible?

Interesting questions Casey,

IMHO, it is the obligation of the recipient of funds to publicly state that they disagree with the comments of one of their fundraisers (if they do disagree) However, I do not think contributions should be returned if the contributors had no prior knowledge of the comments. I know others may disagree with my opinon and I would like to hear what others have to say.

Well here I am at the Jamestown, ND Public Library again, & for all I know, I'll get bumped off after 30 minutes again!

It's interesting to have cable tv access 24/7 now (at my mother's) but limited internet access (1/2 hour/day max).

So..there I sit with the remote, flipping through the channels. Highlights - Ron Reagan Jr's show on MSNBC, with Harold Ford Jr. & some conservative jerk. Watching a bunch of C-Span with a bunch of Generals going head-to-head with a bunch of Senators - trying to justify the war & "progress" made at taxpayer/constituent expense - best part of that was Ted Kennedy Jr. telling Rumsfeld he ought to resign, then Hillary on Rove's idiotic comment.

Another lowlight - the little "comments" that scroll beneath the "news" on either cable news network & repeat ad nauseum: Bush assures the American people that the Iraqi people are overjoyed at the wonderful work we're doing..the puppet head of the government agrees..schools are popping up all over..universal health care..Afganis can keep birds and fly kites again..

Worst of all - I watched some Fox News. First the emphasize that the entire administration backs Rove, who speaks truth. Then they bring up as a tit-for-tat partisan thing not only Dick Durbin's out-of-context comment, but bring up things from almost two years ago that Howard Dean said. In this way, they unintentionally give alot of publicity for how cool Howard Dean is, for any lurkers. Oh & they keep referring to MoveOn as the "far left" - I always thought the "far left" were Trotskyites!

The only thing of real value I found on tv was on "History" or "Discovery" channel - about how by this time we could be using almost-free trains which travel on the principle of magnetism (already in use in Japan & Germany). You know you those little Scotty Dog magnets you had as a kid "repelled" each other when you placed the north/south poles together? Same principle can run these beautiful high-speed trains. Only problem - no oil involved.

By the way, I especially enjoyed reading the posts from "Truth Shall Prevail," which I erroneously wrote yesterday as "Truth Will Prevail," but "Shall" is much grander. What wisdom & intuition - it's good if we can be proactive and try to figure out what these neocon characters are up to as the 2006 election/dogfight approaches!

Also, after she left yesterday, my mother and I went to the grocery story & I ran across to this library. When I got back there, my mother had 4 out-of-towner elderly at her table (from little nearby towns but who come here to shop). I had on my "Hands Off Our Social Security T-Shirt" (yellow with black huge bold lettering) and when I came over to the table, I was treated to all of their opinions.

All of them are against privatization of Social Security, since none of them trust the stock market and they see it basically as a Wall Street money grab. They remember the Depression and feel the whole house of cards could tumble at any minute, that the rich are getting richer, that they and others have worked hard and paid in - that Social Security is something they are entitled to (and their children and grandchildren), as a GUARANTEED benefit. & all of them think the war is a giant rathole and a big disgrace.

Well - I have 15 more minutes to put toward democracy! Am taking 3 planes & 8 hours to get home tomorrow so will keep my eyes & ears open for more opinions in ND, SD & MN!!

Casey: Forrester is irrelevant and has 0 chance of defeating Corizine. I think the last thing Corizine as a candidate would want us to do would be to repeat this outrage here and ask Forrester to apologize.

Perhaps someone could site the Lakoff quote in Don't Think of an Elephant but I recall his theories on framing that it is counterproductive to repeat the attack statement itself . Al Franken has played the Rove statement some 10 times on the air this morning. In my mind that is exactly what Rove and the Whitehouse would want and expect us to be doing.
It is my feeling that we need to have a consistant responsive message such as the Ann Coulter Conservatives are Weak On Social Security and Opposed its Creation, to place our opponents on the defensive and tie them to the extremes of their party(exactly as Rove and the Whitehouse are doing), rather than defensively repeating the Rove statement. I know that we talked at length of Lakoff's framing theories back in January and I think that it is important today that we revisit his publication and utilize his techniques.

Hi DiAnne!
I am at work, in Bismarck.

I emailed Forrester's office this morning.

"I think that the Democrats need to walk and chew gum at the same time, meaning that they need to tie thing together for people. Such as the $1 billion dollars a week spent in Iraq is causing the fiscal problems in social security. And the carnage in Iraq, but they can't afford veteran healthcare. Such as Karl Rove talking about the importance of 9-11, then why did they leave the hunt for Osama bin Laden and attack Iraq, We KNEW he wasn't there.

I think the point maybe is that each time they try to move the message, we bring it BACK on message by using whatever THIER language has been about. Sort of like a political ju-jitsu."

Posted by: spinnaker at June 24, 2005 02:05 PM

[this is the best thing I've read today.
For what its worth, I agree 100% with this statement at the end of previous thread. I've tried to come up with another way of saying the same thing, but this does it for me, so I'm re-posting spinnaker's wisdom here.]

Dianne:

To Conservatives The Democratic Leadership Counsel is seen as the far left.
Why is it that we don't start making the word Conservative a dirty word?
Ed Schultz is in Fargo today Dianne.

OT, but moving. Shows the cost of this war to American families:

Photos of survivors of our fallen soldiers, at funeral after funeral.

Scroll down almost to the bottom.

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2005_05_29_patriotboy_archive.html

Did everyone get this email?...

Dear Friend,

Just hours after learning about an outrageous speech delivered by Karl Rove, President Bush's most senior advisor, I went to the Senate floor -- and I spoke from my heart. I want to share those words with you -- not as a Democrat or Republican, not as a liberal or conservative -- but as an American.

I've attached part of my speech to the end of this email. But, before you read what I said, look again at what Karl Rove said:

(P)erhaps the most important difference between conservatives and liberals can be found in the area of national security. Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers.
I hope you will join me right now in signing an open letter to the President urging him to thoroughly reject Karl Rove's purposeful attack on the patriotism of those who dare ask the tough questions that best protect American troops. Sign our open letter to President Bush now:

http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/rove.php

This isn't the first time that Karl Rove and other White House officials have sought to divide America in ways that make it harder to keep our country safe and our democracy strong. But, it should be the last. That's why I ended my speech with a call on President Bush to fire Karl Rove. It is the only way the President can make it clear that he rejects Rove's effort to distort one of the most unified and patriotic moments in American history into a cheap, divisive, political applause line.

That, of course, is what is most outrageous about Karl Rove's claim that President Bush's political opponents offered "therapy and understanding for our attackers." It isn't true. In the days after 9/11, there were no Democrats, no Republicans. We were all Americans, standing together. President Bush acknowledged that unity in a clear and compelling way at the time.

Now, Karl Rove is purposely twisting those days of unity in order to divide us for political gain. I hope you will act right now to join a growing chorus of Americans calling on the President to fire Karl Rove.

http://www.johnkerry.com/petition/rove.php

Please act right now. Sign our open letter to the President and pass it on to others. All Americans have to speak with one powerful voice in response to this outrage. I will continue speaking out and I know I can count on you to stand with me.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make America Safe, Not Divided
Excerpts of remarks by Senator John Kerry on the Senate floor on Thursday, June 23.
"None of us here will ever forget the hours after September 11... and the remarkable response of the American people as we came together as one to answer the attack on our homeland.... [I]t brought out the best of all of us in America.

That spirit of our country should never be reduced to a cheap, divisive political applause line from anyone who speaks for the President of the United States.

I am proud, as my colleagues on this side are, that after September 11, all of the people of this country rallied to President Bush's call for unity to meet the danger. There were no Democrats, there were no Republicans, there were only Americans. That is why it is really hard to believe that last night in New York... the most senior adviser to the President of the United States [was] purposely twisting those days of unity in order to divide us for political gain.

Rather than focusing attention on Osama bin Laden and finding him or rather than focusing attention on just smashing al-Qaida and uniting our effort, as we have been, he is, instead, challenging the patriotism of every American who is every bit as committed to fighting terror as is he.

Just days after 9/11, the Senate voted 98 to nothing, and the House voted 420 to 1, to authorize President Bush to use all necessary and appropriate force against terror. And after the bipartisan vote, President Bush said: "I'm gratified that the Congress has united so powerfully by taking this action. It sends a clear message. Our people are together and we will prevail."

That is not the message that was sent by Karl Rove in New York City last night. Last night, he said: "No more needs to be said about" their "motives."

I think a lot more needs to be said about Karl Rove's motives because they are not the people's motives... They are not the motives of a nation that found unity in that critical moment--Democrat and Republican alike, all of us as Americans.

If the President really believes his own words, if those words have meaning, he should at the very least expect a public apology from Karl Rove. And frankly, he ought to fire him. If the President of the United States knows the meaning of those words, then he ought to listen to the plea of Kristen Breitweiser, who lost her husband when the Twin Towers came crashing down. She said: "If you are going to use 9/11, use it to make this nation safer than it was on 9/11."

Karl Rove doesn't owe me an apology and he doesn't owe Democrats an apology. He owes the country an apology. He owes Kristen Breitweiser and a lot of people like her, those families, an apology. He owes an apology to every one of those families who paid the ultimate price on 9/11 and expect their government to be doing all possible to keep the unity of their country and to fight an effective war on terror.

The fact is, millions of Americans...are asking Washington for honesty, for results, and for leadership--not for political division. Before Karl Rove delivers another political assault, he ought to stop and think about those families and the unity of 9/11.
______
Please remember to sign the petition. FIRE RUMSFELD & ROVE!!!!!!

found this on DU...

Yesterday Sen. Graham told Rummy-the-Dummy that even in the conservative state of South Carolina he was hearing grumblings about the war in Iraq. This morning, on learning of the five female Marines killed in Iraq, I called Senator Graham's office. I talked to an aide for about 10 minutes. I said that I assumed that Sen. Graham meant that he was hearing anti-war sentiments from SC Republicans. The aide said that was exactly what Graham was saying.

The aide agreed with everything I had to say! I told him that I am a Democrat and was deeply offended by Roves remarks about 9/11. Graham's aide agreed with me. I told him that I really think the shit will hit the fan next week when the additional Abu Ghraib pictures and videos are released. The aide not only agreed, but told me that that is Sen. Graham's sentiment too.

I told Graham's aide that we must find a way out of Iraq and that we must avoid future wars in the region. He agreed 100%. I told him that we need a full bi-partisan investigation into how and why we went to war in Iraq in general, and the implications of the Downing Street Minutes in particular. He agreed and offered that Sen. Graham, as an Air Force Reserve lawyer, is concerned about violations of international law in going to war and in our treatment of prisoners.

I'm not holding my breath for Graham to change his stripes, but I do sense a quantum shift in the tectonic plates of Bu$hco's "base." Next week Abu Ghraib will again rise up - this time to stay around for a while - and bite Bu$h, Cheney, Rummy, and Condi in the ass.

Posted by: Florida Dem at June 24, 2005 03:16 PM

John Kerry's Speech From The Floor (of the Senate)

for anyone who may have missed it, dembloggers has Sen. John Kerry's remarks on Rove on video here:
http://www.dembloggers.com/story/2005/6/23/141514/261

Hi guys! I'm having to be bounced off the computer now but will see you when I get home!!

Ira
Ed Shultz used to be a sportscaster in Fargo, my mom says. I'm really glad he's attracted such a following. It's really cool.

Radio travels a long way on the prairie!

Truth Shall Prevail
We're power bloggers! We can't stay away!

a response from the DNC site:

Rove is right: there are differences

White House spokesman Scott McClellan says that Karl Rove just meant that Democrats and Republicans had "different philosophies" when it comes to their reactions following 9/11. We agree. Our philosophies couldn't be more different when it comes to fighting international terrorism. Let's compare:

Democrats
Believe capturing the person primarily responsible for the attack should be a top priority.

Republicans
It's been four years, and Osama bin Laden is still free, even though Bush's CIA chief says he knows where he is.

Democrats
Investigate the intelligence failures that led to 9/11.

Republicans
Do everything in their power to block the 9/11 Commission from doing its work.

Democrats
Propose creating the Department of Homeland Security.

Republicans
Push tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

Democrats
Believe we should have stayed the course in Afghanistan, not allowing the Taliban to resurge, the warlords to take power, and the opium trade to skyrocket.

Republicans
Ignore Afghanistan as the situation worsens.

Democrats
Believe that we should be honest with our troops about the reasons we go to war, give them everything they need to be safe, and make sure we go in with an exit plan.

Republicans
Manipulate intelligence to trump up reasons to go to war, don't give our troops the support they need, constantly mislead the public about the direction the war is going, and fail to make an exit plan. And turn Iraq into the ultimate terrorist training ground.

http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00012258.html

Results of AP-Ipsos Poll on Military Draft

The Associated Press-Ipsos poll on public attitudes about the military draft and the war in Iraq is based on telephone interviews with 1,000 adults from all states except Alaska and Hawaii. The interviews were conducted June 20-22 by Ipsos, an international polling firm.

Results were weighted to represent the population by demographic factors such as age, sex, region, race and income.

1. If you had a son who was the right age to serve in the military, would you encourage him to enlist in the military now or would you discourage him from enlisting in the military now?

-Encourage, 32 percent

-Discourage, 55 percent

-Neither, 12 percent

-Not sure, 1 percent

2. If you had a daughter who was the right age to serve in the military, would you encourage her to enlist in the military now or would you discourage her from enlisting in the military now?

-Encourage, 22 percent

-Discourage, 66 percent

-Neither, 11 percent

-Not sure, 1 percent

3. Do you favor or oppose the reinstatement of the military draft in the United States? (IF FAVOR/OPPOSE, ASK:) Is that strongly or somewhat?

-Strongly favor, 11 percent

-Somewhat favor, 15 percent

-Somewhat oppose, 23 percent

-Strongly oppose, 47 percent

-Not sure, 4 percent

-TOTAL FAVOR - 27 percent

-TOTAL OPPOSE - 70 percent

4. If the military draft were reinstated, would you favor or oppose drafting women as well as men? (IF FAVOR/OPPOSE, ASK:) Is that strongly or somewhat?

-Strongly favor, 21 percent

-Somewhat favor, 21 percent

-Somewhat oppose, 15 percent

-Strongly oppose, 40 percent

-Not sure, 3 percent

-TOTAL FAVOR, 43 percent

-TOTAL OPPOSE, 54 percent

5. All in all, thinking about how things have gone in Iraq since the United States went to war there in March 2003, do you think the United States ...

(Results from October for registered voters in parentheses)

-Made the right decision in going to war in Iraq, 42 percent (49)

-Made a mistake in going to war in Iraq, 53 percent (50)

-Not sure, 5 percent (1)

6. Do you approve or disapprove of the way the Bush administration has conducted the war in Iraq? (IF APPROVE/DISAPPROVE, ASK:) Is that strongly or somewhat?

-Strongly approve, 26 percent

-Somewhat approve, 15 percent

-Somewhat disapprove, 11 percent

-Strongly disapprove, 45 percent

-Not sure, 3 percent

TOTAL APPROVE - 41 percent

TOTAL DISAPPROVE - 56 percent

7. Should the United States keep troops in Iraq until the situation has stabilized, or should the United States bring its troops home from Iraq immediately?

(Results from November poll for registered voters in parentheses)

-Keep troops in Iraq until the situation has stabilized, 59 percent (71)

-Bring its troops home from Iraq immediately, 37 percent (28)

-Not sure, 4 percent (1)

I watched Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican - & some others. This is bothersome to them as they belong to the party that favors this, but the constituents are speaking!!

Just in from JK's office Re: the DSM! -

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1150

Tony Perkins explains to College Republicans why they don't need to enlist and fight in Iraq. Then Karl Rove's Head Explodes.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/06/24/why-enlist-when-youve-already-stapled-so-much/

An interesting collection of Republican quotes about war and exit strategies and other stuff that comes up occasionally lately...

From Oliver Willis
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2005/06/24/submitted-for-the-record/

Just posted that story regarding Va College Republicans on the Commonwealth Conservative site. Will be interested to see if anyone responds. Unlikely.

[just came across this]

An honest conversation

"What I want people to do is be honest.

If you will not serve in Iraq, and no one you know will serve, stop expecting someone else to do what you will not."

We need to be honest here: Iraq is not worth one more dead American.

People on the right and left want some deus ex machina to save Iraq, but we have., collectively, come to a simple conclusion:

Iraq is not worth dying for. Not for the warmongers on the right or the liberal hawks on the left.

It's bad the soldiers are trapped there, but we have made it their problem, No one is willingly going to join them, and 5,000 have deserted so far.

When you ask liberal hawks to enlist, they are offended by the question.

When you ask conservatives to enlist, they are offended by the question.

And America's parents are NOT sending their kids to die in Iraq if they can, at all, help it. No one blows up IED's at Wal Mart.

We have a volunteer army with fewer and fewer volunteers, and people reenlisting only to save their friends. There is a time limit to their ability to be in combat. They cannot serve forever. They will have to be replaced. And fewer and fewer are willing to replace them,

What I want people to do is be honest.

If you will not serve in Iraq, and no one you know will serve, stop expecting someone else to do what you will not.

Therefore, it is time to stop calling for more troops, or the US to make Iraq safe. We cannot do this and even Americans are refusing to join the fight. It is time to look at your actions and realize, that despite your ideals, you oppose continuing this war. In practical terms, you have decided that this war is not worth your life or anyone you know. And million of Americans have joined you in this decision.

So, with this fact evident, it is time to call for US troops to withdraw from Iraq. Not save it, not add more boots on the ground. You have already voted by your actions. It is time that you match it with your words.

http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/06/honest-conversation.html

From Wonkette - Hilarious
===================================
In the midst of addressing Social Security reform today at a high school in Maryland, President Bush told an interesting story:

President Bush: "I'll tell you an interesting story. I was at an automobile plant in Mississippi...and I was with the line workers. And I said, how many of you all have 401(k)s? In other words, how many of you are managing your own money? And I bet 90 -- I didn't count, but a lot, 90 percent of the hands went up. These are people from all walks of life, all income groups. It's amazing how quick you become financially literate when you're watching your own money, in other words."

It's true too! The line workers at that automobile plant come from all walks of life and all income groups. Some are doctors, some are civil servants, some are line workers. And, similarly, some are in the top tax bracket, some are middle class, some are dirt-poor. So what unites them? Their love of monotonous but stressful assembly line work, and the financial independence they've achieved through personal retirement accounts. And it's that independence, of course, that allows them to pursue their passion for repetitive light manufacturing. How come the enemies of Social Security reform have such a hard time understanding this stuff?

From Forbes magazine

US acknowledges torture at Guantanamo; in Iraq, Afghanistan - UN
06.24.2005, 11:37 AM

GENEVA (AFX) - Washington has, for the first time, acknowledged to the United Nations that prisoners have been tortured at US detention centres in Guantanamo Bay, as well as Afghanistan and Iraq, a UN source said.

The acknowledgement was made in a report submitted to the UN Committee against Torture, said a member of the ten-person panel, speaking on on condition of anonymity.

'They are no longer trying to duck this and have respected their obligation to inform the UN,' the Committee member said.

'They they will have to explain themselves (to the Committee). Nothing should be kept in the dark,' he said.

UN sources said this is the first time the world body has received such a frank statement on torture from US authorities.

The Committee, which monitors respect for the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, is gathering information from the US ahead of hearings in May 2006.

Signatories of the convention are expected to submit to scrutiny of their implementation of the 1984 convention and to provide information to the Committee.

The document from Washington will not be formally made public until the hearings.

newsdesk@afxnews.com

And you wonder WHY they are pushing so hard for a vote on Bolton to go to the UN?

I'm sick of watching "The Sopranos" unfold on my TV as nightly news from the White House. I would much prefer it come from HBO.

And I like James Gandolfini better that I do Karl Rove.

Rove is a lot of things but he is not stupid.

He purposely threw that into liberals faces, and liberals bit. I would look around the news tonight and see what else the white has been up too. As Fe posted, there is UN hearing on torture, there are Iran elections, There is the downing street memo, etc.
Rove thinks ahead 2-3 moves, thats how he got President bush into the WH. We need to do the same.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1150

John Kerry and Senators Pressing for Answers from Senate Intelligence Committee on Downing Street Memo
24 June 2005

John Kerry’s office has released a copy of his letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee requesting an investigation of pre-war Iraq intelligence failures (and the Downing Street Memo) to LightUpTheDarkness.org.

June 22, 2005
The Honorable Pat Roberts, Chairman
The Honorable John D. Rockefeller, IV, Vice Chairman
United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
SH-211
Washington, DC 20510

Dear Senator Roberts and Senator Rockefeller:

We write concerning your committee's vital examination of pre-war Iraq intelligence failures. In particular, we urge you to accelerate to completion the work of the so-called "Phase II" effort to assess how policy makers used the intelligence they received. Last year your committee completed the first phase of a two-phased effort to review the pre-war intelligence on Iraq. Phase I-begun in the summer of 2003 and completed in the summer of 2004-examined the performance of the American intelligence community in the collection and analysis of intelligence prior to the war, including an examination of the quantity and quality of U.S. intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and the intelligence on ties between Saddam Hussein's regime and terrorist groups. At the conclusion of Phase I, your committee issued an unclassified report that made an important contribution to the American public's understanding of the issues involved. In February 2004-well over a year ago-the committee agreed to expand the scope of inquiry to include a second phase which would examine the use of intelligence by policy makers, the comparison of pre-war assessments and post-war findings, the activities of the Policy Counterterrorism Evaluation Group (PCTEG) and the Office of Special Plans in the Office of the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy, and the use of information provided by the Iraqi National Congress. The committee's efforts have taken on renewed urgency given recent revelations in the United Kingdom regarding the apparent minutes of a July 23, 2002, meeting between Prime Minister Tony Blair and his senior national security advisors. These minutes-known as the "Downing Street Memo"-raise troubling questions about the use of intelligence by American policy makers-questions that your committee is uniquely situated to address. The memo indicates that in the summer of 2002, at a time the White House was promising Congress and the American people that war would be their last resort, that they believed military action against Iraq was "inevitable." The minutes reveal that President "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

The American people took the warnings that the administration sounded seriously-warnings that were echoed at the United Nations and here in Congress as we voted to give the president the authority to go to war. For the sake of our democracy and our future national security, the public must know whether such warnings were driven by facts and responsible intelligence, or by political calculation. These issues need to be addressed with urgency. This remains a dangerous world, with American forces engaged in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other challenges looming in Iran and North Korea. In this environment, the American public should have the highest confidence that policy makers are using intelligence objectively-never manipulating it to justify war, but always to protect the United States. The contents of the Downing Street Memo undermine this faith and only rigorous Congressional oversight can determine the truth. We urge the committee to complete the second phase of its investigation with the maximum speed and transparency possible, producing, as it did at the end of Phase I, a comprehensive, unclassified report from which the American people can benefit directly.

Sincerely,

John Kerry

Co-signers: Sens. Tim Johnson, Jon Corzine, Jack Reed, Frank Lautenberg, Barbara Boxer, Edward Kennedy, Thomas Harkin, Jeff Bingaman, Richard Durbin

"You're in one camp or the other. Either you want to know if you've been lied to, or you don't."

Americans Inching Closer to a Reckoning

by Robert Steinbeck Published June 23, 2005 by the Miami Herald

That's the only popular division that matters in the United States today: Those who want to determine once and for all if President Bush knowingly ''fixed the facts'' regarding Iraq, thereby misleading Congress and the American people into supporting an unnecessary war, and those who will cover their ears and hum loudly in order to maintain their belief that Bush and his advisors remain above reproach.
You're in one camp or the other. Either you want to know if you've been lied to, or you don't.

The American public is inching tentatively toward a reckoning unlike any this nation has ever experienced. The oh-so-clever Bush administration strategists and their quasi-media acolytes, who have kept the reckoning at bay with a deft combination of we're-at-war patriotic fervor and fear-the-evil-liberals rhetoric, are running out of parlor tricks.

continue~
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0623-28.htm

Fixing To Fix "Fixed"

By Ray McGovern
t r u t h o u t | 24 June 2005

The Downing Street papers are proving a formidable challenge to the White House PR machine as it desperately tries - in often-ludicrous ways - to slow down a train that has already left the station. And interest continues to build. The leaked British documents are now on the top-ten list of Google queries.

One huge fly in the ointment for the administration was British Prime Minister Tony Blair's early decision that it would be a fool's errand to challenge the authenticity of the papers. Why? Because there is still a relatively free Fourth Estate in the U.K. together with patriotic whistleblowers willing to risk jail for exposing the government dishonesty.

This has prevented the White House from labeling the documents spurious. And Michael Smith, the British journalist who was given them has now acknowledged that more than one such patriot has been involved.)

Smoke Rather Than Denial

With Blair forced to acknowledge that the documents are authentic, the White House could hardly label them spurious. Smoke, rather than outright denial, is had to be the chosen course.

snip~
The Washington Post's Getler did offer a good suggestion; namely, that Blair produce the former intelligence chief and the drafter of the minutes of July 23, 2002 for a news conference or open parliamentary session and let reporters or legislators pursue clarification. Given the seriousness of the issue and the documentary nature of the evidence, my own suggestion would be to subpoena testimony from George Tenet and other senior US officials whose views were reported to Blair - and the sooner the better.

continue~
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062405M.shtml

On today's Diane Rehm Show, one commentator said his wife said: "Democrats always apologize. Republicans never do."

From that standpoint, it's another of the many 'Pugs are iron; Dems are mush' kind of issue.

I think the most important part of the Pugs' game is that they use the remarks of Durben & Rove to keep attention off the real issues

Rove thinks ahead 2-3 moves, thats how he got President bush into the WH. We need to do the same.

Posted by: Toolmaker at June 24, 2005 05:20 PM

Toolmaker,

Exactly. And therein, I believe, lies our salvation.

Everyone,

Great comments and articles on this thread. Of course...that's not new! But since I haven't posted I wanted to say so.

The FDR Memorial is a very special place and a great place to spend Father's Day. Dick, Mark and I - enjoyed the quotes of FDR engraved into the walls of the Memorial and how timely they still are to this day. I had the chance to give my sons the gift of reflection of these quotes as we toured the Memorial. I highly recommend spending time experiencing the beauty and reverence of this place.

Scoundrel City

By Will Durst, AlterNet.

Okay, get this and get this straight. Criticizing our government is not the same as criticizing our armed forces. Okay? The same way that criticizing our government is not the same as criticizing our postal workers. Or criticizing our zoo keepers or our ceramic mosaic tile grout installers. And let me make this clear, I am not in anyway suggesting that any of these groups be criticized. Especially the postal workers.

Furthermore, telling the press that you are disgusted by reports of torture does not endanger our troops. You're all so fired-up desperate to know what endangers our troops; I'll tell you what endangers our troops. Greedy cretinous toad leaders who send them 12,000 miles away to a desert to fight a war based on lies. Lies about the threat and lies about a phantom desire to negotiate. That is what is responsible for putting our troops in harm's way. The idiots who sent them into this, and yes, its time to say it out loud, this quagmire.
snip~

Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi calls the Iraqi War a "grotesque mistake," and House Speaker Dennis Hastert reacts like she's funding secret poisonous kim-chee research in North Korea. "Leader Pelosi and the Democratic leadership should support our troops instead of spreading inflammatory statements." Hey, Hastert! Pay attention. The lady said absolutely nothing about our troops. She was talking about you, you moron, and the rest of the majority leadership. And trust me, I use the term "leadership" extremely loosely. For crum's sake, you pay enough for your polling, put the donut down and read some of it. Most of America agrees with Pelosi. Big fat enormous monstrous grotesque mistake. Repeat after me: "War: bad. Troops: good." See, it's possible to say and to mean as well.

What bowling ball cajones you must have to scream at Senator Durbin, the anti-torture dude, instead of the idiots who keep sending our troops over there without the proper equipment. You should be screaming at the over-inflated egos trying to take away benefits from those very same troops you're so protective of when they come home. It's like teaching the 9/11 terrorists a lesson by invading a country that had absolutely nothing to do with it. Oh, okay, I see. It's a pattern.

Are you saying its treasonous to denounce torture? Or do you mean to imply torture comes with codicils? "Torture is bad. Unless its us doing the torturing. In which case it is not torture, but rather 'results oriented questioning.'" Samuel Johnson was a piker. With these scoundrels, patriotism is not the last, but the first, second and every other refuge. The Republicans need to learn: more strident does not make you more correct. If it did, Joan Rivers would be running things.

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/22303/

http://www.morethananumber.org/ Please would you mind going in a signing the guest book,it would only take a moment of your time, and could you please post it on to as many people as you can Thanking You Kangaroo Brisbane Australia

Also:

WORLD TRIBUNAL ON IRAQ 23 - 27 JUNE 2005

» HIGHLIGHTS
»Live: Audio and Video streaming
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PRESS CONFERENCE

Please click here for Press Release
Date: June 23rd, 2005, Time: 11.00 a.m.,
Place: Darphane-i Amire (Topkapi Palace)
Speakers: Richard Falk, Prof. International Law; Müge G.
Sökmen, WTI Istanbul Coordination; Hilal Küey, İzmir Bar Association; Hülya Üçpınar, İzmir Bar Association; Kazım Kolcuoğlu,
İstanbul Bar Association

Culminating Session in Istanbul, 23-27 June

The Tribunal will consist of three days of hearings investigating various issues related to the war on Iraq, such as the legality of the war, the role of the United Nations, war crimes and the role of the media, as well as the destruction of the cultural sites and the environment. The session in Istanbul is the culminating session of commissions of inquiry and hearings held around the world over the past two years. They have compiled a definitive historical record of evidence about the invasion and the occupation.

Click here for the names of the jury of conscience

Programme of HearingsPlace: Darphane-i AmirePlease click on names to read speaker profiles and click on presentation titles to read the abstracts. Full speeches will be uploaded after they are presented.

DAY ONE, 24 JUNE 2005 >>>>>continued

http://worldtribunal.org/main/?

Kangaroo Brisbane Australia

Shame on you Sen Dick Durbin to apologise to this scum
FOX NEWS IN BED WITH BUSH AND HIS TRASH ADMINISTRATION

White House 'Puzzled' Over Rove Flap

WASHINGTON — A White House official said Friday the administration finds it "somewhat puzzling" that Democrats are demanding presidential adviser Karl Rove's (search) apology or resignation for implying that liberals are soft on terrorism.

"I think Karl was very specific, very accurate, in who he was pointing out," communications director Dan Bartlett (search) said. "It's touched a chord with these Democrats. I'm not sure why."

Congressional Republicans earlier joined the White House in standing solidly behind Rove, saying he shouldn't apologize and that he was outlining a philosophical divide between a president who sought to win the war on terrorism by taking the fight to the enemy and Democrats who questioned that approach.

The controversy, fought out in hearings, floor speeches and news conferences Thursday on Capitol Hill (search), was the latest of several highly contentious battles that have soured the already highly partisan atmosphere.

Earlier this week Sen. Dick Durbin (search), D-Ill., apologized after being hit with a chorus of attacks from Republicans about comments in which he compared detainee treatment at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay (search), Cuba, to the actions of Nazis and other repressive regimes.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160572,00.html

HELLO EVERYONE..

Listen, me and Rossi have done much research between us, last year we kept running across runors about the greencard soldiers.

The story was broken, hard to follow, devoid of details, but we eventually did discover certain facts were true, DID YOU KNOW that 45% of ALL our uniforms running around in Iraq are not even American CITIZENS? And the story we came across was from the Iraqi Resistance, they VIDEO TAPED a mass grave they SAID had been dug by AMERICAN MILITARY to hide the bodies of other men in AMERICAN UNIFORM, I could never find the tape because I cannot read arabic but in a description i read of one who had seen it said that the resistance fighters seemed honestly surprised and puzzled and that the bodies were not JUST in american uniforms but were buried in AMERICAN BODY BAGS.

There was so much shit to keep up with going on in Iraq last august and the reports were sketchy and then we find this today.

Dated August 2003

US KILLING 'NOT ERROR'

A REUTERS cameraman was deliberately killed by US troops after he filmed them digging a mass grave, his brother claims.

Mazen Dana, 43, was shot dead by a US tank as he filmed outside an American-run Baghdad prison.

The US army has insisted that in a "terrible tragedy" his camera was mistaken for a rocket-propelled grenade launcher.

But Nazmi Dana said: "The US troops killed my brother in cold blood.

"Mazen told me by phone a few days before his death that he discovered a mass grave dug by US troops to conceal the bodies of their fellow comrades killed in Iraqi resistance attacks.

"US forces knowingly killed him to prevent him from airing his finding."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13334374_method=full_siteid=50143_headline=-US-KILLING--NOT-ERROR--name_page.html

that august not last august.

And that 45% is FOURTY FIVE PERCENT OF ALL MILITARY PERSONNEL IN IRAQ.

And that is just the FOURTY FIVE PERCENT the Pentagon ADMITS.

Now I understand why soooo many Iraqis ask Why do AMERICAN SOLDIERS speak such badly broken english?

Mazen Dana

Mazen Dana (43) was a cameraman for Reuters. For seven years he covered one of the most dangerous beats in the world: his hometown Hebron in the Occupied West Bank and in 2001 was awarded the International Press Freedom Award by the Committee to Protect Journalists.

Dana was shot dead by US soldiers outside Abu Ghraib prison on August 17th. Stephan Breitner, of France 2 television, told the Guardian: "We were all there for at least half an hour. They knew we were journalists. After they shot Mazen, they aimed their guns at us. I don't think it was an accident. They are very tense. They are crazy."

Mazen Dana is survived by his wife, Suzana and four children.

THEY KNEW they were journalists.

Then theres this

The Detection of Sixteen Dead Bodies in A mass Grave in Falluja
probably belong to American soldiers who were buried in a ditch in the North West sector of the city.

Eye witnesses in Falluja have claimed this morning (Wednesday, September 22) that some civilians have detected a mass grave in the north western sector of the city containing the bodies of sixteen people of foreign appearance.

The witnesses have informed the correspondent of the German News Agency that the inhabitants of that area have detected a grave this morning at 11 a.m. local time which contained the dead bodies of 16 foreigners who have recently been killed and probably belong to American soldiers who were buried in a ditch in the North West sector of the city.

The witnesses have clarified that the identity of the dead bodies which were hitherto remained unidentified, were found to be dressed in addresses similar to those worn by local Fallujians. The style of their haircut indicated that the dead were military personnel and the colour of the hair and the face appearances suggested that they were foreigners.

The way by which these people were killed is so far unclear. An eye witness has said that the grave was detected when the local people have smelled a bad odour in the surrounding which urged them to dig up the place in order to reveal the source of the unpleasant smells.

The witnesses have also added that the local police have arrived to the scene and have prevented the civilians and journalist from approaching the grave and photographing the dead bodies.

http://www.albasrah.net/maqalat_mukhtara/arabic/0904/rfat_230904.htm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The pictures attached in this compressed file are off footage taken in the province of Ramadi -Iraq at a site that belongs to the Iraqi ministry of agriculture and was used until the end of January 2004 by the U.S. occupation forces as a military base.

Due to the continuous attacks by the Iraqi Resistance, the enemy troops were forced to leave. on the 20th of February a scouting group visited the site and it's surrounding area to confirm the lack of enemy activity in this area. During the mission the personnel noticed a lot of dogs & wolfs in this desolate area digging & sniffing the grounds. After a closer look, tracks & markings of heavy vehicles were discovered along with trenches and digging area that were left unattended.

Further exploration of the site revealed the infamous black body bags that we in Iraq have heard so many rumors about. In these bags we found the dead bodies or leftovers of dead soldiers who died as a result of direct hits to the head and chest areas by bullets or shrapnel. These bodies have been buried for a few months only, & are definitely soldiers who belong to the occupying forces. They are soldiers who have been striped of all their clothes & IDs. in order to avoid their identification if discovered.

A large number of bodies have been discovered & have been removed from the sites where they were found & relocated in places only known to our active personnel. These bodies have been relocated for the sole purpose of uncovering the mass deception & lies that the U.S. administration & the British government have carried out since the beginning of this conflict. These bodies will be handed over to the Red Cross at the suitable time in order to be returned to their families for proper burial. The above statement is being released by the Iraqi Islamic Army, one of the active factions that are resisting the occupying forces led by the United States & Britain.

Further information will be released at the appropriate time.

The Iraqi Islamic Army.

Baghdad - Iraq on the 7th of March 2004

http://www.albasrah.net/images/3loj/mass-grave-us-soldiers.htm

The picture and that lat link is at

http://iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/article/24288

and here are pictures of a mass grave where the bodies are in AMERICAN BODY BAGS

ALSO YOU MUST LOOK AT THE MESSAGE THAT THE IRAQI RESISTANCE IS SAYING ABOUT CONTACTING THE RED CROSS TO CHECK THE STATUS OF YOUR LOVED ONES

They are hiding our dead like monsters in the night.

The pictures

http://www.albasrah.net/images/3loj/mass-grave-us-soldiers.htm

NCLB Gets Funding Cut Yet Again

"Democrats sought to depict the bill as the outgrowth of misplaced Republican priorities. Citing the billions in tax cuts that Congress has enacted under the Bush presidency, Rep. Robert Menendez, D-N.J., said, "It is inexcusable, and I find it immoral, that the first thing that goes is our investment in our children's future."

Menendez singled out education cuts. He noted that the bill cuts funding for initiatives created under the No Child Left Behind Act, one of Bush's proudest achievements, by more than $800 million from last year."

Seattle Times Article link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2002347921_spending25.html

This piece is bloody brilliant....!!! I recommend we send this to all our Democratic Senators and Representatives. It's what we've been saying for years and I notice others have said the same in the last couple of threads. There isn't anything our Democrats in Congress have done to apologize for, other than voting for the Patriot Act and for giving Georgie-Boy the power to declare war, and a few of the other knuckle-headed things they voted for out of a misguided sense of patriotism. So much power in the hands of a mental midget is unwise, and Georgie-Boy should never have been given that in the first place; I suspect they know that now. Our Democratic Senators and Representatives need to get a spine, as we've known for aeons and said so ourselves on this blog, and they need stop apologizing!!! The Repukes never apologize for the lies and slander they've told. Why should Democrats apologize for telling the truth?????????

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/062405Y.shtml

The Howling
By John Cory
t r u t h o u t | Perspective
Friday 23 June 2005

Sometimes I get so angry I could just spit.

What the hell is wrong with you Democratic politicians? Why do you turn on each other? Why won't you stand by your own words and ideals? Why do you keep apologizing for telling the truth? And why can't anyone see McCain's true colors? Or Lieberman or Biden?

And why in God's name do you expect folks like me to come support you after you turn tail and run?

Senator Durbin apologizes, for what? Telling the truth?

The howling banshees of the GOP and corrupt media sprout hair under a full moon and wail into the sky until the noise becomes unbearable for simpering politicians. And the jackals of right-wing power feast on the carcass of democracy. Warm jelly spine is such a delicacy for these carnivores.

We know the truth out here. We will stand with anyone who stands up for us. Where are you?

This GOP has the moral certitude of Errol Flynn at a convention of underage bargirls in Bangkok. And ethics? Please! Republicans have the ethics of - well - Tom Delay and Randy "Duke" Cunningham and the Ohio Coin-gOp scandal. They quote Stalin as a means of dealing with the judiciary or anyone who opposes them, but no one makes them apologize. They call Democrats traitors, and accuse them of aiding the enemy, while at the same time, the GOP ensures their friends profit from the deaths of American soldiers. There is not a corpse in this country that these people will not stick Uncle Dick's cheney into, in order to screw themselves into a frenzy of godly power. And yet, these bilious bullies rule the political playground? Give me a break!

If you're a Democrat, I'll give you everything I have, money, time, whatever; and all you have to do is - give me my country back. All you have to do is stand up and face the storm. Expose these hypocrites for what they are and what they do in the name of America. My America.

Let me tell you three things you could do if you really want my support. I'm no corporation, just a working stiff, so I will certainly understand if you pay me no never-mind. But if you are interested in stirring the pot and maybe generating a whole heap of grassroots support, here's my Three-Step Democracy Recovery program:

Support John Conyers and the hearings on the Downing Street Minutes and every revelation that comes out of these papers. Hold Bush Co. accountable by making the issue public via the Internet, your own web sites, any newspaper with integrity (not NY Times or Washington Post - I said integrity), support liberal blogs at every opportunity. Put it on your answering machines.

Take a group, a LARGE group of Congressmen and Senators over to Dover Air Base to honor and photograph the returning dead from the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do not be deterred by MPs or civilian police, and be willing to be arrested for trespassing. Let the Bush administration arrest a congressional delegation representing the families of the fallen for daring to face the price America pays for Bush's War.

Rent a Jumbotron in Times Square and use the Nightline model of the Iran hostage crisis - remember? (Day 152 of "America Held Hostage") Only this time, the Jumbotron flashes the picture of our young troops with the caption: "Death 1732 - Wound 5432 - of the Bush War."
And then as an added bonus offer up this message on the giant screen: Let Us Pray.

Our Forefathers, who art in heaven,
How hollowed have become thy names.
The rule of kingdom has come,
The Republic is undone
On Earth just as they intend to do to Heaven.
They give us each day, a daily dread
And warn us about our trespasses
While they trespass against us -
We, the people.

Oh, lead us out of wars of pre-emption,
And deliver us from one-party evil,
For we know there should be no corporate kingdom,
Only empowerment of the people,
And the glory of the common good
That is true Democracy
For ever and ever,
Amen.

And after you have done this - let the howling begin. I'll stand beside you.

John Cory is a Vietnam veteran. He received the Purple Heart and Bronze Star with V device, 1969 - 1970.

This author also mentions the proposal to repeal the 22nd Amendment.... That is something I've not seen mentioned anywhere except twice in e-newsletters in three days....

Karen Kwiatkowski: Neoconservatives Speechless!:

Neoconservatives from the left, right and middle, including George W.
Bush, believe that they create their own reality, live in their own
world, and make their own history.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski115.html

found this on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1882582&mesg_id=1882582

On MSNBC's "Connected," Ron Reagan went off on a rant that included:

Dems should stop apologising for anything.

Dems should remind everyone how often repugs use Nazi references, including Sessions, "BullyBoy" Rush Limbaugh and his daily big fat idiot remarks about femi-nazis.

Dems have contrived a way to lose to losers.

"We know what happens when this White House gets an idea in its head - it keeps the other one company."

Right wing "jihadis" wouldn't recognise the truth if it was giving them a lap dance.

Administration's dishonesty is matched only by its incompetence.

Memo to Dems - pointing that out doesn't require an apology.

06.23.2005 Kristen Breitweiser letter from The Huffington Post:

Karl Rove's "Understanding of 9/11"
Mr. Rove, the first thing that I would like to address is Afghanistan - the place that anyone with a true “understanding of 9/11” knows is a nation that actually has a connection to the 9/11 attacks. One month after 9/11, we invaded Afghanistan, took down the Taliban, and left without capturing Usama Bin Laden - the alleged perpetrator of the September 11th attacks. In the meantime, Afghanistan has carried out democratic elections, but continues to suffer from extreme violence and unrest. Poppy production (yes, Karl, the drug trade) is at an all time high, thus flooding the world market with heroin. And of course, the oil pipeline (a.k.a. the Caspian Sea pipeline) is better protected by U.S. troops who now have a “legitimate” excuse to be in that part of Afghanistan. Interesting isn't it Karl that the drug “rat line” parallels the oil pipeline. (Yet, with all those troops guarding that same sliver of land, can you please explain how those drugs keep getting through?)

Now Karl, a question for you, since you seem to be the nation's self-styled sensei with regard to 9/11: Is Usama Bin Laden still important? Lately, your coterie of friends seems to be giving out mixed messages. Recall that in the early days, Bin Laden was wanted “dead or alive.” Then when Bin Laden slipped through your fingertips in Tora Bora, you downgraded his importance. We were told that Bin Laden was a "desperate man on the run,” and a person that President Bush was not "too worried about". Yet, whenever I saw Bin Laden's videos, he looked much too comfortable to actually be a man on the run. He looked tan, rested, and calm. He certainly didn't look the way I wanted the murderer of almost 3,000 innocent people to look: unkempt, panicked, and cowering in a corner.

Karl, I mention Bin Laden because recently Director of the CIA, Porter Goss, has mentioned that he knows exactly where Bin Laden is located but that he cannot capture him for fear of offending sovereign nations. Which frankly, I find ironic because of Iraq--and let's just leave it at that. But, when you say that “moderation and restraint” don't work in fighting terrorists, maybe you should share those comments with Mr. Goss because he doesn't seem to be on the same page as you. Unless of course, Porter is holding out to announce that Bin Laden is in Iran. (Karl, I want Bin Laden brought to justice, but not if it means starting a war with Iran - a country that possesses nuclear weaponry. The idea of nuclear fallout in any quadrant of the world is just not an acceptable means to any ends, be it capturing Bin Laden, oil or drugs. But, Afghanistan and Bin Laden are old news. Iraq is the story of today. And of course, it appears that Iran will be the story of next month. But, I digress.)

More to the point, Karl when you say, “Conservatives saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and prepared for war,” what exactly did you do to prepare for your war? Did your preparations include: sound intelligence to warrant your actions; a reasonable entry and exit strategy coupled with a coherent plan to carry out that strategy; the proper training and equipment for the troops you were sending in to fight your war? Did you follow the advice of experts such as General Shinseki who correctly advised you about the troop levels needed to actually succeed in Iraq? No, you didn't.

It has always been America's policy that you only place soldiers' lives in harm's way when it is absolutely necessary and the absolute last resort. When you send troops into combat you support those troops by providing them with proper equipment and training. Why didn't you do that with the troops that you sent into Iraq? Why weren't their vehicles armored? Why didn't they have protective vests? Why weren't they properly trained about the rules of interrogation? And Karl, when our troops come home – be it tragically in body bags or with missing limbs – you should honor and acknowledge their service to their country. You shouldn't hide them by bringing them home in the dark of night. Most importantly, you should take care of them for the long haul by giving them substantial veteran's benefits and care. To me, that is being patriotic. To me, that is how you support our troops. To me, that is how you show that you know the value of a human life given for its country.

For the record Karl, does Iraq have any connection to the 9/11 attacks? Because, you and your friends with your collective “understanding of 9/11” seem to be contradicting yourselves about the Iraq-9/11 connection, too. First, we were told that we went to war with Iraq because it was linked to the 9/11 attacks. Then, your rationale was changed to "Iraq has WMD". Then you told us that we needed to invade Iraq because Saddam was a "bad man". And now it turns out that we are in Iraq to bring them "democracy."

Of course, the Downing Street memo clarifies many of these things, but for the record Karl: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11; there were few terrorists in Iraq before our invasion, but now Iraq is a terrorist hot-bed. America had the sympathy and support of the whole world before Iraq. Now, thanks to your actions, we find ourselves hated and alienated by the rest of the world. Al Qaeda's recruitment took a nose-dive after the 9/11 attacks, but has now skyrocketed since your invasion of Iraq; and most importantly, nearly 2,000 U.S. soldiers have been killed because of your war in Iraq. These facts speak for themselves. (And, they speak very little about effectively winning any war on terror.)

Karl, you say you “understand” 9/11. Then why did you and your friends so vehemently oppose the creation of a 9/11 Independent Commission? Once the commission was established, why did you refuse to properly fund the Commission by allotting it only a $3 million budget? Why did you refuse to allow access to documents and witnesses for the 9/11 Commissioners? Why did we have to fight so hard for an extension when the Commissioners told us that they needed more time due to your footdragging and stonewalling? Why didn't you want to cooperate so that all Americans could “understand” what happened on 9/11?

Since the release of the 9/11 Commission's Final Report, have you helped bring to fruition any of the commission's recommendations? Have you truly made our homeland safer by hardening/eliminating soft targets? Because, to me rebuilding a tower that is 1,776 feet tall where the World Trade Center once stood seems to be only providing more soft targets for the terrorists to hit. Moreover, your support for the use of nuclear energy seems to be providing even more soft targets. Tell me, while you write your nifty little speeches about nuclear power, do you explain to your audience how our nuclear plants will be protected against terrorist attack or infiltration? What assurances do you give that nuclear waste will not find its way into terrorist's dirty bombs and onto our city streets? And, how do you assure your audience that the shipment of radioactive material will not become a terrorist target as it rolls through their own backyards?

To date, you have done practically nothing to secure our ports, nuclear power plants, and mass transportation systems. Imagine if the billions of dollars you spent in Iraq were spent more wisely on those things here at home. Imagine what sort of alternative energy resources (bio-diesel, wind power, solar power, and hybrid automobiles) could have been researched and funded in the past three years. Talk about regaining the respect and support of the world, that is the one way to do it.

Karl, if you “understand 9/11”, then why don't you understand that until we have a more environmentally friendly energy policy, we cannot effectively fight the war on terrorism. By being dependent on foreign oil, we have no choice but to cozy up to nations that sponsor terrorists. Moreover, because of oil, we may end up placing our troops and our nation at greater risk by having to invade certain oil-rich countries. Our invasion of these countries merely serves to inflame would-be terrorists by reinforcing their notion that we are gluttonous and self-centered -- invading sovereign nations solely to steal their oil. Forgive me Karl, but is that how you think you "win hearts and minds"? Does that help in any way to "spread democracy"?

Finally Karl, please “understand” that the reason we have not suffered a repeat attack on our homeland is because Bin Laden no longer needs to attack us. Those of us with a pure and comprehensive “understanding of 9/11” know that Bin Laden committed the 9/11 attacks so he could increase recruitment for al Qaeda and increase worldwide hatred of America. That didn't happen. Because after 9/11, the world united with Americans and al Qaeda's recruitment levels never increased.

It was only after your invasion of Iraq, that Bin Laden's goals were met. Because of your war in Iraq two things happened that helped Bin Laden and the terrorists: al Qaeda recruitment soared and the United States is now alienated from and hated by the rest of the world. In effect, what Bin Laden could not achieve by murdering my husband and 3,000 others on 9/11, you handed to him on a silver platter with your invasion of Iraq - a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

Which leads me to my final questions for you Karl: What are your motives when it comes to 9/11 and are you really sure that you understand 9/11?

SIX MORE YEARS IN IRAQ

BY RICHARD REEVES

Long after our leaders understand that we are going to get out of there with little to show for bloody effort, they will continue to deny reality on the ground because of political reality back home in the capital city.
snip~

"Republicans have to defend a war that was very badly planned and is costing much more in blood and treasure than the public was led to believe.

Democrats struggle to define and agree on alternative policy that doesn't simply write off the sacrifices already made by our armed forces and accept defeat."

In other words, the die has been cast; we have crossed both the Tigris and the Euphrates. But if history is our guide, it will take six more years to declare peace with honor, one more time.

As if most of us, Iraqis aside, did not already know that this war is over. We tried the impossible again, with the usual result -- and it will take time to craft a noble rationale for what we have done to ourselves.

complete article here:
http://www.richardreeves.com/columns/latest.html

Young Republicans support Iraq war, but not all are willing to join the fight

By Adam Smeltz Knight Ridder Newspapers

NEW YORK - Young Republicans gathered here for their party's national convention are united in applauding the war in Iraq, supporting the U.S. troops there and calling the U.S. mission a noble cause.

But there's no such unanimity when they're asked a more personal question: Would you be willing to put on the uniform and go to fight in Iraq?

continue~
http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9556221.htm

[it sounds to me that what they are saying is: "I have other priorities", just like chickenhawk-Cheney, when it was his time to go....]

sunny and otv,
Great posts! I can't keep up with you lately.

I wish I was better than posting this about Tom DeLay, but I am not, so here you all are:

http://www.dembloggers.com/story/2005/6/24/203535/424

Tom DeLay, publicly slurring his way through slander. Drink much, Tom?