A Mother's Dream: A Vigil for Peace

Indy,

Beautiful pictures and beautiful stories. All of us are sincerely praying for Cindy's mom to have a full recovery and for Cindy's family to hang tough during this ordeal.

Indy

Beautiful account - nice to wake up to.

My memory is not all that great but some how I recall Richard Nixon going down to the DC Mall at the Lincoln Memorial one evening and meeting with antiwar demonstrators. Maybe we don't want to revive the Vietnam era memories but my thought was that if dirtbag Nixon could find it appropriate to meet with demonstrators during an unpopular war without supposedly being accused of being a traitor why can't Bush? The downside, again from memory was that Nixon's meeting was followed by lies about the incursion into Cambodia and perhaps contemporaneous with the debacle at Kent State and an explosion of antiwar demonstrations from the Cambodian incursion and Agenew's diatribes against protestors,but my thought was that if it was ok for Richard Nixon to meet with demonstrators why not Bush meeting with Ms. Sheehan.

I have searched the internet for this Nixon story and can not find it. Is my memory among us boomers correct?

Indy -

Your moving words brought tears to my eyes, as well as Cindy's eloquent mournful hope that ALL of our military personnel can come home. Thank you!!! I'm so glad you were there to witness such a profound moment.... and I appreciate you sharing your experiences with us all.

I think the reason Cindy has touched so many so deeply (and 'seemingly' so quickly now that MSM is covering her story) is the fact that she, like those on this blog and across the nation, KNOWS that every single solitary thing Bu$h and his cronies have said to "justify" his war is a pack of LIES. A country cannot "justify" invading another country - and needlessly kill innocent people in that country - based on LIES. That goes for the US as well as any other country. We were not invaded by anyone from Iraq; we are not defending ourselves against invaders, and the 'insurgents' are technically Iraqi patriots who are defending themselves against foreign invaders. There is no "noble cause" our kids are dying for. (They're kids to me because I'm old, even though they are technically adult men and women. I hope they forgive me for calling them kids; I'm old enough to be their mother or grandmother....)

As I said in a previous post, if it's possible for me to be more against Bu$hCo's war more than I was before, I am now. An email from my sis-in-law this morning said they will know more after my nephew's Sept. Guard meeting, but as of now it seems he will be going to Afghanistan (not Iraq as I previously feared - altho that could change, too, I imagine, depending on what pResNitwit does in the next few months to screw things up more than he already has).

Again, Indy, thank you.... and a Big Hug to you for sharing......

from D.u.

am in Crawford at the Peace house. This is a very important message, please spread the word far and wide:

There is a high-school football game here in Crawford on Friday night. This means that there will be next-to-no parking available in front of the Peace House.

Crawford is a tiny town only 15 - 20 blocks long. Traffic here is going to be a bear on that evening and the organizers are nervous that the congestion will agitate the locals.

Try to arrive as early as you can on Friday. If you don't think you can make it here before 5pm, please consider coming on Saturday morning. You probably won't be able to get near the town after 5pm anyways.

It only takes one person to slow down suddenly in front of the Peace House to create a fender-bender that will block traffic for hours.

The locals have been understanding; but visitors from neighboring communities may not be so accommodating, and many will be drinking alcohol.

When you get to Crawford, if you want to check into the Peace House, DO NOT SLOW DOWN WHEN YOU GET TO THE PEACE HOUSE. Follow the instructions of the volunteers promptly. They may bark orders at you, they are not being rude: They are trying to avoid an accident in this town.

I know this might be asking for a lot considering the traffic on DU, but please keep this thread kicked until Friday night.

If you have a blog, please post the above information. Tell everyone you know: Friday night, the traffic into Crawford may be next to impassable. Be patient.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4393642

I am an award-winning journalist with a project, Ruminations on America, for which I have called for essays from coast to coast on the current state of the union and true core American values. The response so far has been overwhelming...I would like to invite you and your readers to participate in the project (essays of up to 1000 words must be accompanied by a photograph that conveys a sense of who you are and a brief introduction to your life) or to check it out at www.ruminationsonamerica.blogspot.com. Some of the entries so far include the actor John Ventimiglia (of the HBO show the Sopranos), a member of the Veterans for Peace who rode the bus to Crawford with protesting Gold Star Mother Cindy Sheehan and a Catholic nun who wrote a letter from prison on July 4. She is currently serving a term for civil disobedience.

Hagel states Bush should meet with Ms. Sheehan. I guess Bush/Cheney can now attack another soldier for his views.

"Hagel: Iraq growing more like Vietnam
Republican Senator says Bush should meet with protesting mom

Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska on Thursday said the United States is "getting more and more bogged down" in Iraq and stood by his comments that the White House is disconnected from reality and losing the war.

The longer U.S. forces remain in Iraq, he said, the more it begins to resemble the Vietnam war.

Hagel mocked Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion in June that the insurgency in Iraq was in its "last throes," saying the U.S. death toll has risen amid insurgent attacks.

"Maybe the vice president can explain the increase in casualties we're taking," the Nebraskan told CNN.

"If that's winning, then he's got a different definition of winning than I do."

Looks like a quagmire to me.

Sorry to interrupt, but with Krugman's article about the studied 2000 election and the 2004 which can't because of electronic results known only to vendors, I contend far worse was done in 2004 and we'll never know. Easy for a historian to comment on provable results, and only the vendors and GOP counters know for sure.

Which is why my concern for the PDA and Conyer message that Kerry/Edwards is withdrawing or thinking of withdrawing a lawsuit. For those who are already mad with they perceive as too little engagement, this rumor or fact is causing a firestorm. People I've never met are farming my email to blast Kerry, again, saying he should never run for dog catcher. Even if a bad suit, and there may be reasons, the bad PR on this blast needs to be managed and countered.

With America coming together, magically before the '06 elections, of course, our strongly anti-war and mis-guided anti-Kerry are now using this. Anyone know the real scoop? Apologies if answered way back.

This really needs to be his issue for legitimacy of what happened and what he accomplished, and no issue more important for future elections. At some point, counties will realize they've been snookered on these expensive disasters of machines, sold as the only way to satisfy HAVA and the disability requirement, which it doesn't even solve. Vendors are lying their way to the bank.

If Taft won't do the honorable thing and resign, then fine, he should be forced out of office via impeachment. Even Republican leaders in Ohio feel that resigning would be the appropriate course for Taft to take.

"Taft vows to stay in office.

William Howard Taft
COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- Ohio Gov. Bob Taft, a lame duck leader and now a convicted criminal for state ethics violations, said there is still important work for him to do and he will not resign.

Taft said he can remain an effective governor despite his plea of no contest Thursday to charges that he failed to report numerous golf outings since taking office in 1999.

Taft said he chose not to plead guilty but was taking responsibility, through the no-contest plea, for failing to report 52 gifts worth about $5,800, including 47 golf outings.

""The Bush administration reacted calmly to Taft's conviction.

Governor Taft apologized today, he has paid the fine and said it was a serious mistake, and the president accepts that," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.""

Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman, who is seeking the Democratic nomination for governor in 2006, said the charges are part of a "culture of corruption" in Ohio.

"As governor I have made it clear that I expect all state workers to comply and follow both the spirit and the letter of Ohio's ethics laws, and I have demanded no less of myself," Taft said.

But at a news conference minutes later, Taft said repeatedly he would not resign, saying he had too much to do in his remaining 16 months as governor.

And Ohions should be reminded that Bush condones Taft's ILLEGAL behavior.Its time to restore Honor and Dignity to the Ohio Governor's office.

Posted by: Marjorie G at August 19, 2005 11:42 AM

Marjorie,

Excellent point! I know I feel rather helpless about it because only Kerry/Edwards have the power.

Marjorie:

It seems fashionable for the left and even one of our new bloggers to beat up on JK. Considering that JK won more votes than any Democrat for Presidnet in US history, it is mind boggling to still read of such attacks.

From what we read of the Noe, Blackwell,Coingate, and Taft in Ohio nothing would surprise me of Nov '04 in Ohio, but litigation would be a complete waste of valuable DNC resources we desperately need for Nov '06, which is all that matters right now.

Peaceful Easy Feeling
by The Eagles

I like the way your sparkling earrings lay,
against your skin, it's so brown
and I wanna sleep with you
in the desert tonight
with a billion stars all around
'cause I gotta peaceful easy feeling
and I know you won't let me down
'cause I'm already standing on the
ground
And I found out a long time ago
what a woman can do to your soul
Ah, but she can't take you anyway
You don't already know how to go
and I gotta peaceful, easy feeling
and I know you won't let me down
'cause I'm already standing on the ground
I get this feeling I may know you
as a lover and a friend
but this voice keeps whispering
in my other ear, tells me
I may never see you again
'cause I get a peaceful, easy feeling
and I know you won't let me down
'cause I'm already standing on the ground
'cause I'm already standing...
on the ground

These Are The Times...

"THESE are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated."

~Thomas Paine

A wonderful post on D.U.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4397104

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 12:00 PM

Ira,

There are many new bloggers here and each of them have different knowledge and experiences of the election than what we've come to learn. I think the point of this site is to educate and activate people.

So for all the lurkers and new bloggers: we here at the DCP can not intentionally support one candidate over another. We also try to educate people about outright acts of corruption and unethical behavior--like the election fraud and coingate--but hopefully, we are focusing our efforts on current actions we can do towards the 06 elections and not wasting our energy creating backlash towards any ETHICAL, progressive candidates.

I personally believe that Kerry has continued the fight away from the eyes of the media. I also believe he's continued fighting for us on the Senate floor.

But my point is: Let's not create diversions here when we're busy on 06. We can not continue to form the circle and shoot at progressives anylonger. Our lives are at stake!

Our lives are at stake!

Posted by: Suz at August 19, 2005 12:32 PM

And that's literal, at least in my case. The theocracy will never leave the likes of me alive.

Suz:

While this site cannot endorse candidates, my loyalty to JK remains unchallenged.

You are right about keeping our eyes on '06 rather than the past. That was exactly my point. We cannot or at least should not keep trying to relive 2000 or 2004. I believe that is JK's and JE's opinion as well, to keep moving forward and not dwell on November.

I agree we should not be attacking Progressive candidates or each other as we went through that process the first months this site was founded and at times seem to fall back into those useless discussions. That's exactly what disturbs me about Marjorie's post above about possible new attacks on JK/JE.

Marjorie posted above possible attacks on JK that continue for his backing away from protracted litigation in Ohio(maybe I misread). As a lawyer and political activist I think that is wrongheaded, whether its JK/JE or other's opinion here.

Don't follow your reference to Ethical lapses as I strongly feel Taft's ethical and illegal lapses are certainly relevant to discussions at this site and our forward strategy of politics in Ohio and cleaning up that state.

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 11:52 AM
RE: Impeaching Taft in Ohio

He only has one year left in his term. He's worse than a lame duck; he's almost a dead duck. I don't think it's worth the effort. He's barred by law from seeking a third term next year.

And it goes without saying that he's another fine example of a notable Republican family political dynasty...

hmm, hanging on and twisting in the wind or impeachment? What a dilemna.
The year in office is not as impt as sending a message to Ohio voters that Ohio Dems want to clean house. I just don't see defarge how Ohio Dems can have any credibility about cleaning house w/o moving for Impeachment. Should Nixon have been left in office just b/c he only had 2 1/2 years left? Its like debating the death penalty or life imprisonment. When pleading guilty to crimes I just don't see how impeachment is not justified. It just should not be tolerated of elected officials, from dog catcher on up.Its like saying its ok to commit crimes while you are in office as long as they are petty crimes. Would his conviction for petty theft be treated any different than lets say stealing millions like Noe. Just playing devil's advocate.

correction: plead nolo like a coward, didn't plead guilty.
Incidentally many judges refuse to accept nolo pleas which should have heppened here.

Another report from the Crawford Peace House:

(From Karen Bernal)

My friends,

I had promised a few people that I would write about why I was going to Crawford before I left. I thought that I would be able to do that on the first day I got here --- I was wrong. I have been incredibly busy as the person drafted to be the Crawford Peace House volunteer coordinator that I don’t think I’ve gotten to post anything in about 3 days. I apologize for the void in communication, and I realize people are wanting to know about what’s going on!

First, Cindy and Dede’s Mom is okay, considering she had a stroke ---- it was not life threatening. Dede (Cindy’s sister) will stay with her from here on out, and Cindy should be back by tomorrow. There’s no such thing as good timing when it comes to something like that, but this weekend is particularly trying because they are trying to move the encampment at the site to the plot of land that a lone sympathetic rancher has so kindly allowed the vigil keepers to stay on. In addition, Amy Goodman just got here last night, in addition to an AirAmerica affiliate from San Diego. There are celebrities scheduled to arrive here this weekend besides Lance Armstrong; unfortunately, I am not at liberty to say who they are. Because Crawford is so small, it has been a real struggle to be able to handle the influx of people coming to the Peace House and Camp Casey from a logistical point of view, so advertising who may show up is not being pushed right now. Just handling the parking situation is an ongoing challenge because the House is actually located on the main road going in to Crawford, and they are without a parking lot. Many of the neighbors are not exactly thrilled by our presence, so coming up with space can often be a headache. Add that to food, porta potties, water, ice……. Well, you get the idea.

But that’s not why I’m writing this. Let me just tell you a quick story illustrating a part of the why.

A few days ago, one of the two mail carriers that deliver mail in town whispered to our Parking Queen, Barbara (from San Diego), that any mail that only had “Crawford Peace House” without the actual numbered address, was being ‘returned to sender.’ Apparently, the Crawford Post Office was in the habit of holding on to the mail and then every now and then, sending them back to the people who had written either Cindy or CPH. Barbara, a retired postal worker, informed me that while that was technically possible, to do so was a real indication of their attitude towards what was happening here. After a few well placed phone calls to various Congressional reps, Postal Inspectors from Dallas and regional offices paid a visit to the post office here in town. It’s true many pieces of mail were returned to people, but we found out that a large amount had also just gone back to the main Dallas-Ft Worth Post Office. It was just sitting there.

Johnny Wolfe, one of the co-founders of the Peace House went to the DFW office to pick the lot that had been sent back. When he walked into the place, he noticed that AirAmerica was cranked up in the front receiving area of the office. After he introduced himself at the counter and informed them that he was there to pick up the mail, the entire facility, including the processing center in the back, stopped and came to the front. They cheered and roared their approval in the loudest Texas fashion for everyone in Crawford who was there to take it to Bush. News of this brought tears to a few of us back at the House. I can’t begin to adequately describe what it’s meant to get that kind of support. When I think of how difficult it’s been, I just think of those moments that I couldn’t even begin to imagine reading in a story.

Experiences like that have shown me that people everywhere, not just those that have gone out of their way to come here, are with us (and by that I mean all of you reading this, as well). Most of America truly understands that there is no light at the end of this dark, foul tunnel --- they want it to stop ----- and stop before it goes elsewhere…..

I am asking everyone who is reading this to please, please --- bring this subject up now and at the conferences. Talk about this! I know we have the special election to deal with (I’ve already walked precincts), and the issue of electoral integrity is major, but we can’t let the issue of the war and occupation get away from us. It is bankrupting us in blood and treasure. As DFAers, we have an obligation to continue to raise difficult questions ---- and demand they be answered for the sake of making us and the Party better than it is now. To continue this silence for strategy’s sake is morally impoverished as a part of a vision for ‘taking our country back’. Choosing to not decide IS a choice.

Get this rolling! TALK! I’m going to really try to steal some moments where I can type today, but I’m already off to the first event of the day: the National Council of Churches will have an Interfaith Service at noon. 300 clergy bused in from everywhere will be at the site to lend solidarity to the efforts of the brave souls who have stuck in out in the unbearable heat.

Talk to you all soon,

karen

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 01:10 PM

I think that rather than going through the impeachment process (or even a recall), Dems should demand resignation. Even though Taft has refused to do so, Dems should not let up and hound him at every pass to resign. And of course, remind everyone every day that Taft is a convicted criminal now.

defarge: an Ohio blogger reminded us that unlike California Ohio has no recall.Too bad.
Demanding Taft's resignation should be asked as the first question at every Taft\Blackkwell\Tom Noe\Schmidt press conference. Surely they will not answer but a follow up question then needs to be asked whether that candidate for governor, lt. governor, congress, etc. can explain why Ohions should tolerate criminal behavior in Ohio's elected office. Its like my struggle with the death penalty. Perhaps allowing him to stay in office and making his tenure in office hell, just like allowing a murderer life in prison is worst punishment than the death penalty, or impeachment in this case.
From an ethical perspective, though I just don't see how Ohio Dems can just demand his reignation, without after a certain time say sometime next year, also starting Taft's impeachment. It seems like state laws would almost require his removal as impeachments are usually intended for high crimes and "misdemeanors."

Sorry to hit and run, anyone familiar with me knows my loyalty and big picture awareness of John Kerry and the campaign. I am also forward thinking and concerned the emboldened purists, alive again, are reliving the past. More than anything I want to move them forward, also. I have a group and newsletter devoted to just that.

I remember hearing that the suit(s) were not good, proof of disenfranchisement greater, and we all know the difficulty of discovery in Ohio, I don't need anything proven to me about the efforts and success. It's the other folks.

I would like some minimal effort on '04, if possible, if just for history. Made up easily without proof on these machines and whistleblowers, like the author in Krugman's article. There is no proof from '04 of a win or loss.

I would like election reform, generally, to be a JK focus, instead of signing onto a bad bill by Hillary and asking for paper trails. Not enough.

Are there any bloggers on this site from Ohio? From my perspective, the ruling party in Ohio, the Republicans, have lost any semblance of credidibility with Ohioans. If there has been a group trying to take advantage of the political disaster in Ohio they have been especially quiet. Paul Hackett proved that dissenting voices do have an opportunity to take advantage of the political mess in Ohio. Personally, I think it would be best to remind voters with every opportunity that their governor is a crook. He can't deny that(after pleading no contest, the judge found him guilty). That is a "value" that can be hung around the entire party's neck as well. Many of the party elite seem to have all been involved in Coingate. I don't see impeachment proceedings being worth the effort. I don't know the political composition of the Ohio state Congress, but if it is mostly Republican, trying to get an impeachement will go nowhere.

Indy,

Great post. Thank-you for sharing your experience and pictures with us.

Cali dem,

Your post reads better than most journalists who are trying to describe what is happening in Crawford. Thank-you as well.

Marjorie Cohn | Why Bush Can't Answer Cindy
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805I.shtml
Why didn't Bush simply invite Cindy in for tea when she arrived in Crawford? Marjorie Cohn says that in a brief, personal meeting with Cindy, Bush could have defused a situation that has become a profound embarrassment for him, and could derail his political agenda.

{{{ IMHO, important essay, concisely written and spot on! Not very long and well worth the time to read in full.... }}}

Conyers Calls For Investigation Into Ashcroft's Role In CIA Leak Case
Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) is calling for an investigation into the role of former Attorney General John Ashcroft in the outing of undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/18/1331249

All Roads Lead to Rove:
In an article in the September issue of Vanity Fair (not yet online), Michael Wolff, in probing the Plame/CIA leak scandal, rips those in the news media -- principally Time magazine and The New York Times -- who knew that Karl Rove was one of the leakers but refused to expose what would have been “one of the biggest stories of the Bush years.”
http://www.wisopinion.com/blogs/2005/08/all-roads-lead-to-rove-vanity-fair.html

Derrick Z. Jackson | Guzzle Gas, and Pretend
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805C.shtml
On the eve of our four year anniversary since the terrorist attacks of Sept 11th, Jackson probes at some important questions and contradictions. Supporting the troops, he suggests, just might involve rethinking what it means to have a "Support the Troops" magnet on an SUV, and asking ourselves if we need that much room in the exurbs to hide from each other.

Sidney Blumenthal | The Vacationer
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805N.shtml
While the president worries about restoring "balance" to his life, Sidney Blumenthal notes that Americans are worried by stratospheric gas prices and growing fed up with the war in Iraq.

Chris Floyd: Duck Soup
Those writing Bush's political obituary have "misunderestimated" him once again. For it's becoming increasingly clear that Bush does have an exit strategy from Iraq -- and it runs through Iran.
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/155469/
Excerpt:
But the latest investigation by the International Atomic Energy Agency found that Iran is not developing a nuclear weapons program, The Independent reports. And Bush's own intelligence services say that even if Iran did start a weapons program, it would take at least 10 years to produce a bomb -- plenty of time for "feverish diplomacy" to work, you would think. So while "Iranian Nuke Threat" is still a good scare phrase for a cable news crawl, it might not be enough to sway an increasingly war-weary public to leap into another military adventure.

That's why the Bushists are throwing new tropes into the mix. In his chest-thumping bluster last week, Bush said pointedly that he would be willing to use military force to "provide the opportunity for people to live in free societies." That's a blank check for hitting Iran (and many other countries) any time he feels like it.
. . . . . . . . . .
Left unexplained is why Shiite Iran would want to help Sunni insurgents overthrow a Shiite-dominated Iraqi government led by Tehran proteges (and employees) who are busy aligning the country with, er, Tehran. That's the kind of self-defeating stupidity one might expect from the Bush poltroons, who have spent $300 billion and almost 1,900 American lives to establish an unstable, terrorist-ridden, fundamentalist Islamic state in the center of the Middle East. But it's unlikely that the subtle Persians, with 3,000 years of statecraft behind them, would be foolish enough to kill the golden goose that Bush has handed them by destroying Saddam and installing their allies in power.

Still, a lack of sense and credibility in a casus belli has never hindered the Bush Faction before. And it won't now. The plain fact is that Bush doesn't want "diplomacy to work" against Iran. He wants the situation to reach a crisis point that will "justify" military action. It's the only form of politics he knows: You foment (or invent) a crisis, then use deceit, fear and brute force to impose your radical agenda. And the takedown of Iran is a long-held ambition of the corporate militarists behind the Bush Faction's relentless quest for "full spectrum dominance" over world affairs.

The "high" Bush got from his Iraq assault is now wearing off, politically and personally. He needs another hit of blood and destruction. And don't think he's worried about the prospect of a much wider conflagration arising from a bombing strike against Iran. After all, chaos and instability only mean more money for his war-profiteering family and cronies -- and greater authority for "war leaders" seeking to "secure the Homeland."

More war is the only way for the Bush Faction to maintain its power and keep advancing its rapacious agenda. So there will be more war.

oncall you and defarge are right about the difficulty of getting the Republican Ohio state legislature to impeach Taft but watch them squeam if a bill of impeachment is brought by a Dem state representative. Let them try and defend and be on the same side of their sitting governor with a scant 17% approval rating. How could that help Schmidt's\Blackwell's election chances in '06.? Ohio has cost this country the election and re-election of George Bush. Its far past time to let Ohions know that voting Republican has not worked for their workers at Timken Ball Bearings, the outsourced factory and textile workers nor has it served the Ohio ciizens or state government well.
In other words its time for a complete house cleaning of the crooked Republican politicians in Ohio, no matter how its done.

events and reality are rapidly going sour on Bu$h. That means the bu$hites are planning something BIG for the Fall,we can't have national media focusing on reality!

from the Yahoo news site today:

Iraq casts darkening cloud over Bush administration

1 hour, 20 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) - With the US death toll climbing, support at home plunging and a stalemate over a constitution stalling the political process, the Iraq war is casting a darkening cloud over George W. Bush's presidency.

The failure of Iraqi negotiators to nail down a charter by last Monday's deadline was only the latest bad news for Bush, who is under mounting pressure to set a timetable for withdrawing the 138,000 US troops in Iraq.

Signs of alarm are now starting to surface within Bush's Republican Party, which is fearful that discontent over the war could loosen, if not threaten, its solid hold over Congress in the November 2006 elections.

Party stalwarts such as Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska have become increasingly outspoken about the administration's policy of toughing it out against an insurgency raging 28 months after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

"The casualties we're taking, the billion dollars a week we're putting in there, the kind of commitment we've got, we're not going to be able to sustain it," Hagel told CNN Thursday. "Public opinion won't allow it."

With US deaths in Iraq rising to 1,850 -- with more than 50 in August alone, making it one of the bloodiest months yet for American troops there -- Bush's popularity has continued to slide in the polls.

Fewer than four in 10 Americans approve of the way he is handling Iraq. Fifty-four percent say the war was a mistake, and 56 percent believe some or all US troops should come home, according to a Gallup poll published last week.

Nine months after winning a second term by a surprisingly convincing margin and spearheading a strong Republican showing in legislative elections, Bush has seen his approval ratings sink to around 45 percent.

And if that was not enough, the president was also seeing the first stirring of a popular peace movement personified by the grieving mother of a slain soldier who camped out near his Texas ranch.
continue~
http://tinyurl.com/a4j72

Indy,

Thank you for the eloquent account of your time at the Camp Casey Peace vigil.

History is being made, and you are a part of it.
I am so happy for you that you were able to stand and commune spiritually with others who share your passion for a just and positive America.

I was really blessed to read your account, and, Indy, you brought an essence of the spirit of Camp Casey back with you, and we could feel it too, as you talked and shared it with us.

I believe this is a life changing experience for you, and even all of us, as we are renewed with hope that all that is good in the hearts of men will once again break forth, and the truth will win over the ugliness, and America will come back to life, and bring forth her good fruit others visioned and died for.

Totally OT but interesting reading...

Houston music critic's take on the Pentagon's walk & concert vs. some of the local artists and their participation in the Veterans for Peace concert...

http://www.houstonpress.com/Issues/2005-08-18/music/racket.html

Just more evidence as others here have said before: Texas may not be as red as it's often portrayed.

News on CNN last night said the Republicans had a march/rally planned, with signs that say "You don't speak for me, Cindy".

I say let 'em.

It brings the issue of pro-war/pro-peace really out there in the front of the eyeballs of this nation.

They might have diffused it by staying mum. They are escalating and exacerbating it, by fighting it.

Who ya going to stand with, America? A grieving mom of a young man killed in an unjust war?

Or rich, fat, people who make fun of purple heart veterans who put their lives on the line to make America better?

A sea of either grieving or worried moms across this nation?

Or, rich, pompous and arrogant war-mongers who get richer off your flesh and blood, then turn around and charge you sky high record breaking gas prices?

Maybe, just maybe, this is the wake-up hour for America.

Why has Congress refused to investigate skyrocketing gasoline prices? Its time to start pressuring Congress to begin investigating out of control gas prices.That is an issue that effects red state and blue state constituents.

Don't follow your reference to Ethical lapses as I strongly feel Taft's ethical and illegal lapses are certainly relevant to discussions at this site and our forward strategy of politics in Ohio and cleaning up that state.

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 12:50 PM

Ira,

I didn't say "ethical lapses".

I said, "but hopefully, we are focusing our efforts on current actions we can do towards the 06 elections and not wasting our energy creating backlash towards any ETHICAL, progressive candidates."

What I meant by that was hopefully we are not firing angry shots at a progressive candidate--Kerry or anyone--who has upheld himself or herself to the highest ethical standards. I also believe if (moderate-left) Republican's hold our values and are ethical then we should not shoot them down, either.

We have to recognize there is never 100% agreement on this earth and so we have to settle for the best fit AND the best morals.

I am one who certainly hopes the Republican middle will start "iron-handling" the neoCONS and stop letting them get away with their corrupt power-money grab.

Posted by: oncall at August 19, 2005 02:24 PM

Oncall,

Kay is from Ohio. I'm not sure who else.

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 03:55 PM

Congress investigate sky-rocketing oil prices?
Not likely, not going to happen.
Because Big Oil lobby has "bought off", eh... contributed to the campaigns of every person in Congress who "has the ability to investigate".
Because Big Oil has 2 oil men in the WH...
In the same month that Big Oil records its most obscene profits ever, the big dick Cheney gets his "secret" energy bill passed through the Senate. Congress just "awarded" more give aways to the Big Oil companies and we expect Congress to now "investigate" the robber barons? Not likely.
Our only hope is Sen Byron Dorgan, ND, who has said he is going to try when Congress gets back into session. Sen. Dorgan is a DEM. Let's see if he can get anywhere with this. it will only happen if all Americans get behind Sen Dorgan on this issue.
........from the archives:::
Oil industry awash in record levels of cash
But a smaller portion of profits is going to find new oil discoveries

By just about any measure, the past three years have produced one of the
biggest cash gushers in the oil industry’s history. Since January of 2002,
the price of crude has tripled, leaving oil producers awash in profits.
During that period, the top 10 major public oil companies have sold some
$1.5 trillion worth of crude, pocketing profits of more than $125 billion.

“This is the mother of all booms,” said Oppenheimer & Co. oil analyst Fadel
Gheit. “They have so much profit, it’s almost an embarrassment of riches.
They don’t know what to do with it.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8646744/

and
This is cheney the dick's baby... Americans will
continue to lose at the pump...and the big oil men get ever richer, here in
the US and in Saudi:
Critical US Energy Bill Crafted in Secrecy
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1002-02.htm
and from 2001:
Public Deserves to Know How Energy Policy Created

WASHINGTON — Why is it that the so-called liberal media and Democrats in the
Senate don't seem to care how President Bush's energy plan came to be? Why
aren't they demanding that Vice President Cheney make public exactly whom he
consulted in creating this pro-industry proposal?
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0831-05.htm

Big PHarma is NOT happy:::

Jury Awards Widow $253.4M in Vioxx Trial

AP - 1 hour, 21 minutes ago
ANGLETON, Texas - A Texas jury found pharmaceutical giant Merck & Co. liable for the death of a man who took the once-popular painkiller Vioxx in the first of thousands of lawsuits pending across the country. The case drew national attention from pharmaceutical companies, lawyers, consumers, stock analysts and arbitragers as a signal of what lies ahead for Merck, which has vowed to fight the more than 4,200 state and federal Vioxx-related lawsuits pending across the country. Merck said it plans to appeal.
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/health/anti_inflammatory_drugs

I can't support Hagel for Pres, but he certainly is the least gingerly about standing up to Bush's lies (except, of course, the ones it behooves him not to mention). Anyway, here's a nice bit on shrub's sabre-rattling:
_____________

Republican Party foreign policy expert Sen. Chuck Hagel is calling for the United States to open talks with Iran's new president and has dismissed President George W. Bush's talk of a military option against Tehran as an empty and foolish threat.

In an interview with Reuters during a trip across his home state on Wednesday, Hagel said the United States should greet the new Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad with a bold diplomatic stroke.

snp

EMPTY THREAT
Hagel's response to that implied threat was completely dismissive.

"Quite frankly, what is the military option, what are we talking about here? We lose credibility in the face of the world when we say things like, 'Well just don't forget what happened to Iraq could happen to you Iran. We could invade you, we could bomb you.'

"Oh come on now. First of all, where are we going to get the troops? Who's going to go with us? Where are our partners going to be with Iran?"

snp

Hagel, who has also been highly critical of the Bush administration's Iraq policy and would like to see Washington end its embargo of Cuba, said the current policy of working through surrogates made no sense.

"I don't understand how we think we're going to make progress by staying on the outside using surrogates, our allies France, Britain and Germany, to go to the table and work with them while stand back and don't want to get our hands dirty," he said.

"You need to move toward something and what are we moving toward here? I don't see where we're moving toward anything. In fact, I think we're eroding a base of strength that we still have here. We have got to get inside this thing, because this is a very dangerous problem," Hagel said. "I think we're actually losing altitude, I think we're actually making it more dangerous."
_____________

Republican senator calls for talks with Iran
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-08-19T164653Z_01_WRI960027_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAN-USA-DC.XML

Hey All...

the car is packed...the Great Dane is ready to go and I am off to Camp Casey!!!

I'll try to email back reports or blog from the Peace House!

Vive la Revolution!!!

Ondelee ondlee rrrrrriiiiiba rrrrrrrriiiiba!!!!

Who was that masked man?

Peace.

Ira,

I think having Taft in as governor helps highlight the fraud and crimes of his party for 06. I'm afraid if he is 'ejected' then they will give another Republican (maybe corrupt Republican) a clean slate.

"You need to move toward something and what are we moving toward here? I don't see where we're moving toward anything. In fact, I think we're eroding a base of strength that we still have here. We have got to get inside this thing, because this is a very dangerous problem," Hagel said. "I think we're actually losing altitude, I think we're actually making it more dangerous."

[sounds like Hagel is channeling JK, circa 2004. This sounds amazingly like a call for using real statesmanship and "diplomacy" to me. How "sensitive" of Hagel, a warhawk Republican calling for negotiating instead of sabre-rattling with Iran, because Bu$h's way doesn't work. Imagine that!
The times really are a-changin' ???? ]

********
********
Sorry to hit and run, anyone familiar with me knows my loyalty and big picture awareness of John Kerry and the campaign. I am also forward thinking and concerned the emboldened purists, alive again, are reliving the past. More than anything I want to move them forward, also. I have a group and newsletter devoted to just that.

I remember hearing that the suit(s) were not good, proof of disenfranchisement greater, and we all know the difficulty of discovery in Ohio, I don't need anything proven to me about the efforts and success. It's the other folks.
***********
***********

Could someone translate this post so that Kucinich/Dean/Gephardt/Edwards "small picture" supporters could understand it?

Was there vote fraud in Ohio in 2004? if there was:

1) Why did "JK" concede so early?

2) Why didn't "JK" contest the Ohio results or at least investigate them? As I recall the most vociferous protesters of the Ohio election were the Kucinich folks, black folks and, believe it or not, the Green Party.

With all the hoopla the Withdraw From Iraq petition creeps on its turtle like pace:

I would like to know what are the plans for September and the specific goals. As I have said previously, other than Sen. Feingold's withdrawal proposal, things are not changing at all.

Here is one quick, simple, easy, cost-free thing I can suggest for anti-war groups, people coming to Washington on 9/24 and to the U4PJ people to do, is to sign the "Withdraw from Iraq" petition. As of today only a little over 32,000 people have signed the petition - nowhere near the 1 million goal.

http://elandslide.org/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=iraq1

Right now the petition, even after all the Sheehan publicity, only has a little over 32,000 signers.

Suz: my strategy would be to have Ohio Dem. legislators make daily attacks on Taft and try to pressure him to resign which he won't and then hang the obstructionist, corrupt politician label on the heads of All Ohio Repubs who continue to support Taft. As I stated earlier today, ethically I feel we have an obligation to remove politicans convicted of crimes even if not to our political advantage.

I am generally not bipartisan, stopped that years ago when 100% of our judges and state politicans became Republican, but I did recognize Chuck Hagel's integrity in his interview on CNN in my earlier post, so I too recognize the sliver of Republican intergity when it happens. Used to think the same of McCain until last election cycle when I saw him wrapped around Bush. Understand if you can't be as partisan,but I see the dark side has engulfed even folks like Chaffee and Snowe who we once thought were above that (regarding the Bolton nomination).
But I strongly feel that it is important however we approach it, that we keep daily political heat on Ohio Republicans, and wrap them in the Taft\Blackwell stinch.
I believe that oncall agrees with me regarding the importance of a strong political strategy in Ohio.

Posted by: ralpheh at August 19, 2005 05:22 PM

Ralph,

We have football Saturdays coming up at UOFM...Lots of crowds..100,000 or so if you believe the sign (which I DO--having sat my tush in 1/4 a seat!)

SO...come to AA on Football Saturdays and make the rounds there with the petition.

Ira...

Ok..I can deal with giving them the "heater."

With the "spark" of Cindy Sheehan's questions and the vigil that has grown around Camp Casey with other grieving family members of those who have died for Bu$hCo's Iraq war (and those who have just never approved of his war in the first place), I'm loving every word some of these writers have to say, the new angles and questions they have about the war, whether I agree with them or not (mostly I agree, and I certainly want our troops home ASAP - didn't want them to go in the first place). These writers (like others) have valid points and good questions.... they're looking at things not as much from an anti-Bu$hCo stance as asking 'Why? What "noble cause" are our kids dying for?' We've known the answers from an anti-Bu$hCo stance before, but now people are more adamant in demanding answers to those same questions.... There's a new "tone" to much of the writing that I'm appreciating....

Cindy Sheehan's example should inspire Americans everywhere who are opposed to the Iraq war to act.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050819/cant_make_it_to_crawford.php

Steven Laffoley | A Simple Question and the Power of Shame
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0818-20.htm

John Nichols | Pro-War Folks' Attacks Show Desperation
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805Q.shtml
While debating conservative pundit David Horowitz on Ron Reagan's MSNBC show the other night, I was struck by the desperation with which supporters of the war have turned their fury on Cindy Sheehan, the mother of an American soldier killed in Iraq who has been trying to get an audience with President Bush.

Norman Solomon | The Iraq War and MoveOn
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905M.shtml
The day after Wednesday night's nationwide vigils, the big headline at the top of the MoveOn.org home page said: "Support Cindy Sheehan." But MoveOn does not support Cindy Sheehan's call for swift withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

'Peace Mom': Spearhead of Peace Movement?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905L.shtml
What began as one mother's vigil on a country road in Texas two weeks ago has grown into a nationwide protest, putting a grieving human face to the miseries of war and growing misgivings about President Bush's strategies in Iraq.
{{{ There are two articles on this link, and the second one is quite interesting....}}}

Ira Chernus | Sheehan Story Shows Elite Split on War
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0818-26.htm
Excerpt:
So far, the peace movement has been largely paralyzed by fears that a U.S. withdrawal would lead to a bloody civil war in Iraq. Those of us who can remember working to end the U.S. war in Vietnam should find that argument odd, at best. We remember hearing it back in the 1960s: If the U.S. leaves, a “bloodbath” will ensue. It took us a while to realize that we were not preventing a bloody civil war. The civil war had been going on long before the first U.S. troops arrived in Vietnam. We were merely propping up the weaker side. We were perpetuating the civil war.

Iraq and Vietnam are not at all precise parallels. Saddam Hussein’s despicable terror prevented any possibility of civil war in Iraq. It was the arrival of U.S. troops, en masse, that created the possibility of civil war. It was the massive U.S. effort to forge a new, pliable, virtually puppet Iraqi government that created the inevitability of civil war. As long as the U.S. troops remain, the civil war will go on. The only chance of ending the civil war is to withdraw not only all U.S. military forces, but all U.S. government agents (now staffing the largest U.S. embassy in the world), along with all the contractors (and their private security forces) who are milking Iraq for billions.

What happens then? No one can say for sure. There is indeed some evidence that a bloody civil war may ensue. But there is also plenty of evidence that most Iraqis want to work out their differences relatively peacefully and have the skills to do it. Only one thing is certain. As long as the U.S. tries to run Iraq, the civil war will rage on.

Every successful political campaign needs a single, simple theme, heard over and over again. Now that the elite are debating among themselves about whether to end the war, the peace movement’s message can finally be heard in the mainstream media. That message should be single, simple, loud, and clear: “We are not preventing a civil war. We are perpetuating it.” It's up to us in the peace movement to make sure that message gets through. When it does, both the foreign policy elite and the mass public will force the White House PR machine to take up a new task: putting the best face and a quick and total U.S. withdrawal from Iraq.

ralpheh,

Kerry conceded because he lost the popular vote, and with that, the ability to legitimately/politically ask for an immediate recount.

He never intended to NOT investigate the vote, particularly in Ohio. But I saw the email from his campaign manager in Ohio--the one that said there was no evidence of outright fraud AT THAT TIME.

No one sat around--there was a huge amount of investigation--and much has come to light over time.

I understand that, had they been able to get anyone to come forward with proof, they would have called for an investigation before the vote was certified in January.

I also understand that John Kerry has supported the investigation of all legitimate concerns about the 2004 elections. He knows what happened.

There were, apparently, three lawsuits in Ohio. The one that PDA is asking people to complain about is the first--the Badnarik-Green lawsuit. It is not a strong case. Lawyers have advised that this one is not winnable.

There are TWO MORE LAWSUITS and THEY are going forward. The second and third lawsuits are, according to my sources, based more on the civil rights issues and Kerry-Edwards are indeed part of these suits.

It is also my understanding that more evidence has come out, and perhaps, some testimonials from observers within the state, with evidence. Ohio is not over. And John Kerry has not stopped fighting.

He never has and he won't. He is a quiet warrior, but he is a warrior.

You can take that to the bank--and the other blogs. Thank you.

Can anyone tell me the difference between Kerry and Feingold's plans for Iraq withdrawal? I am one of those who says it's time to bring the troops home now, but I was just wondering if there is any difference between those two plans.

Kerry has a plan??? Not according to this article about Feinfold:

Senator Russ Feingold has stepped up to the plate:::

Feingold proposing target 'end date' for withdrawal

By CRAIG GILBERT Aug. 17, 2005

Washington - Stepping up his criticism of U.S. policy in Iraq, Sen. Russ Feingold has begun calling for an end-of-2006 deadline for the completed pullout of American troops.

Feingold said he was proposing a target “end date” for withdrawal because “I think what we’re doing now is feeding the insurgency.”

***************************************************************
Feingold’s position goes beyond what virtually any other senator has explicitly proposed for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. **********************************************************************
The Democrat said he was also trying to break what he called a “taboo” in the Senate on the discussion of specific dates for bringing troops home. He said lawmakers, especially Democrats, need to be less “timid” on the subject.
Feingold offered a resolution in June calling on President Bush to provide a timetable for withdrawal, but the measure was silent about deadlines. A proposed House resolution calls for a start date of October 2006 for withdrawal, but it has not gained wide backing.

“The situation is becoming more and more untenable because of a lack of a clear plan to finish the task and leave,” said Feingold in a telephone interview while he traveled between listening sessions in northern Wisconsin.

Feingold said he planned to put out a public proposal Thursday on the issue

continue~
http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/aug05/349017.asp?source=tmj4

and here~
Feingold: "I believe I am the first senator [to set a deadline]"
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/17/223318/063

ralpheh,

Kerry is going to Iraq soon--he wants to see firsthand.

Ralph,

Kerry was a prosecutor. There was no way he could just claim fraud without proof. Though I initially was upset when he conceded, through my research on the fraud, I've come to see how well they hid their tracks.

I also would like to add that Gore had a media circus for 6 weeks and it did not help him. I would say Kerry was smart to try to find the guilty party(s) away from the limelight of the faux media who was just going to turn this into a mockery of him.

I still have reason to believe he's still fighting for this information. I believe it will surface someday, but as any prosecutor knows, it's not good enough to claim you've been robbed when you have no picture of the suspect, no fingerprints, and no witnesses to the crime.

Frankly, it was amazing that he got any media coverage during the campaign. But I think any democrat, liberal, progressive would have run into the same stonewall that Kerry did. But I think we have to unite against the neoCONS and put our energy on electing progressives.

ralpheh,

Kerry is going to Iraq soon--he wants to see firsthand.

Posted by: karen at August 19, 2005 06:13 PM

Does the media know? Will Kerry tell them? Will they TELL us?

Enquiring minds want to know!

defarge seemed particularly upset with Jk and the Ohio lawsuits. Thanks Karen for the detailed info. about the litigation. I hope that satisfies defarge's concerns and that others understand that had JK/JE had a clear cut case of fraud back in Nov that they were ready with teams of campaign lawyers to go forward with an election challenge before the electors were sworn in in January. Those of us who got to know and respect JK last summer know quite well that he is not a quitter. Thanks for clearing that up for us karen.

Posted by: ralpheh at August 19, 2005 06:04 PM

Ralph,

I'm not going to try to make Kerry or Feingold compete over who did this or that. I have no intention of turning our guns on our own side.

What I want to do is:

1. Make Schwartz stand up for the average citizen or get him voted out of office.

2. Make sure Progressives are elected who will be willing to focus on election reform and media reform.

3. End the war and save a generation of teenagers.

4. Fight corruption and lobbyist in DC.

5. Work for National Healthcare

6. Fight for jobs in America and closing the loopholes that allow big business to take their money and run.

That's the reason I don't want to create a competition on our side. We need all progressives and we have to recognise if we're willing to smear and target our own, then we will lose the big picture in the longrun.

Sparrow,

I was just doing a compare and contrast over plans to withdraw troops (or get out of Iraq) since I have been hearing that Feingold is the Anti-War person with the clear idea.

I wasn't going to turn it into a Kerry v Feinglold thing.

INDY, hon.....

GODSPEED Muchacho!!!

defarge seemed particularly upset with Jk and the Ohio lawsuits.
Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 06:22 PM

T'wasn't me. Perhaps you were thinking of Suz or sparrow? They live closer to Ohio. Yes, I do admit that it was a shame that Kerry lost, and I do believe that there was something seriously wrong going on in Ohio, just as there was something seriously going wrong in FL in 2000. And from what I'm reading & hearing (like Klugman's column today), it's only going to get worse for the next election. Is there even enough time to make any reforms by the next election? (I mean that as an honest question - no sarcasm intended.)

Posted by: Indie Liberal at August 19, 2005 06:35 PM

Ok. Thanks.

I just have found myself thinking how much our "side" hurts ourselves when we compete with each other instead of the "foes."

No hard feelings?

it's only going to get worse for the next election. Is there even enough time to make any reforms by the next election? (I mean that as an honest question - no sarcasm intended.)

Posted by: madame defarge at August 19, 2005 06:47 PM

Right now the fox is guarding the henhouse!

No hard feelings sparrow. I hate eating our own too.

Indie Liberal,

I think I'm going to become a vegetarian; I'm not real thrilled with eating my own either.

Conyers has new post up about Krugman's piece today and he pretty well spells out in different terms what Karen has said here: http://www.conyersblog.us/archives/00000211.htm#comments

Thanks Karen.

Posted by: Indie Liberal at August 19, 2005 06:54 PM

Indie Liberal,

Welcome to the DCP. it's not usually this volatile. You can say you saw the "heat" here first hand.

Hope you'll return despite the heat today.

Karen

I posted a follow up post to this mess with the COnyers letter on Dem Daily... again thanks for your help -

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=287

Posted by: ralpheh at August 19, 2005 06:04 PM

Iraq changes daily. Kerry gave a brilliant speech on the Senate Floor in late June in which he liad out the steps Bush should make to end the war. of course all has changed since then.

"Getting it right also means putting together a real plan for the training of Iraqi troops and following through on it. This should be our top priority. It’s the key to getting our troops home and avoiding a humiliating withdrawal. It’s time to move beyond fudging the numbers and finally put the training of Iraqi troops on a true six-month wartime footing, which includes ensuring the Iraqi government has the budget necessary to deploy them. It’s also time to stop using the in-country training requirement as an excuse for refusing offers made by Egypt, Jordan, France and Germany to do more. Why would we turn down this opportunity to give our troops the relief they deserve?

Getting it right also means drawing up a detailed plan with the clear milestone of transfer of military and police responsibilities to Iraqis after the December elections. The Administration’s plan should take into account both political and security objectives, including Iraqi force structure, and be specifically tied to a defined series of tasks and accomplishments. This plan must be more than dates and numbers - it must make clear to the Iraqi government that American patience is limited."

Here's a link to the speech - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?page_id=230

There are other links at the bottom of the page that correspond to his speech.

While Russ Feingold may have taken steps to outline when he thinks we should withdraw, key is getting everyone to come to the table on this.

Kerry has been talking about setting a timetable for months. As the article points out the House Dems set one and it has gone nowhere.

Where was Feingold to back up what John Kerry said on June 28th? Most likely plotting to run for 2008 so backing up John Kerry then was out of the question. Too bad, isn't it... because in order to make this work, we need to work together. Put the damn 08 presidential aspirations aside and work together. Kerry is doing that, why can't Feingold, Biden and Clinton?

Is there even enough time to make any reforms by the next election? (I mean that as an honest question - no sarcasm intended.)

Posted by: madame defarge at August 19, 2005 06:47 PM

Madame,

Is there time? No. Frankly, I'm being honest here. First, we have a Republican stonewalling of this whole issue because in order to legitimize it and get real reform they'd have to admit there were problems in '04. They refuse to do this.

Next, the HAVA is not able to effectively receive the promised funding for these reforms and we have states run by crooks like Ohio, Florida, etc who are still willing to commit fraud and suppression to make their party win. They don't care about fair elections. They're "all about" power!

Next, the HAVA act of 02 was not even officially started until 9 months prior to "the most important Presidential election..." which indicates the Republican President and Congress have no problems continuing to stonewall against change.

Another thing, as we speak, individual states, counties, or precincts are opting for paperless machines.

Somehow the 14 ammendment that the Supreme Court used to SELECT GWB only is applied to GWB and not to everyone in the USA.