The MSM and the Mirror

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/18/AR2005081801989.html
Firm Fined for Channeling Donations to GOP
The Federal Election Commission yesterday fined Westar Energy Inc., two former corporate officers and the firm's lobbyist a total of $40,500 for their roles in channeling contributions to House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (Tex.) and other Republicans.

Drastic Tax Break Gives Billions to US Firms
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905I.shtml
A measure designed to create jobs is instead rewarding the companies that are most adept at stashing overseas profits in tax havens, allowing them to bring money home at a severely discounted tax rate.
{{{ If anyone is still doing personal boycotts, corporate names are included in this article....}}}

Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility: “Scotchgard" Whistleblower Files Federal Free Speech Lawsuit
http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/0818-02.htm

FREE SPEECH: GOING, GOING ...
Molly Ivins, AlterNet
Corporations' efforts to curb free speech through lawsuits re unfortunately succeeding.
http://www.alternet.org/story/24293/

This is worth another post:
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Can anyone tell me the difference between Kerry and Feingold's plans for Iraq withdrawal? I am one of those who says it's time to bring the troops home now, but I was just wondering if there is any difference between those two plans.

Posted by: Indie Liberal at August 19, 2005 05:41 PM
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*************

Kerry has a plan??? Not according to this article about Feinfold:

Senator Russ Feingold has stepped up to the plate:::

Feingold proposing target 'end date' for withdrawal

By CRAIG GILBERT Aug. 17, 2005

Washington - Stepping up his criticism of U.S. policy in Iraq, Sen. Russ Feingold has begun calling for an end-of-2006 deadline for the completed pullout of American troops.

Feingold said he was proposing a target “end date” for withdrawal because “I think what we’re doing now is feeding the insurgency.”

***************************************************************
Feingold’s position goes beyond what virtually any other senator has explicitly proposed for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. **********************************************************************
The Democrat said he was also trying to break what he called a “taboo” in the Senate on the discussion of specific dates for bringing troops home. He said lawmakers, especially Democrats, need to be less “timid” on the subject.
Feingold offered a resolution in June calling on President Bush to provide a timetable for withdrawal, but the measure was silent about deadlines. A proposed House resolution calls for a start date of October 2006 for withdrawal, but it has not gained wide backing.

“The situation is becoming more and more untenable because of a lack of a clear plan to finish the task and leave,” said Feingold in a telephone interview while he traveled between listening sessions in northern Wisconsin.

Feingold said he planned to put out a public proposal Thursday on the issue

continue~
http://www.jsonline.com/news/nat/aug05/349017.asp?source=tmj4

and here~
Feingold: "I believe I am the first senator [to set a deadline]"
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/17/223318/063

Posted by: ralpheh at August 19, 2005 05:22 PM

Ralph,

We have football Saturdays coming up at UOFM...Lots of crowds..100,000 or so if you believe the sign (which I DO--having sat my tush in 1/4 a seat!)

SO...come to AA on Football Saturdays and make the rounds there with the petition.

Posted by: Suz at August 19, 2005 05:35 PM

EXCELLENT IDEA.....

We wouldn't get kicked out will we????

There are TWO MORE LAWSUITS and THEY are going forward. The second and third lawsuits are, according to my sources, based more on the civil rights issues and Kerry-Edwards are indeed part of these suits.

It is also my understanding that more evidence has come out, and perhaps, some testimonials from observers within the state, with evidence. Ohio is not over. And John Kerry has not stopped fighting.

He never has and he won't. He is a quiet warrior, but he is a warrior.

You can take that to the bank--and the other blogs. Thank you.

Posted by: karen at August 19, 2005 05:38 PM

Then why am I a getting emails from the PDA that Kerry is pulling out of the lawsuit. Please explain....

ralph: stop your constant attacks on JK. Some of us here are starting to get offended.
By the way what role did you play in the campaign last summer that gives you such authority to be making these constant unwarranted attacks against JK?
Don't recall seeing you here last summer.

Kerry has a plan??? Not according to this article about Feinfold:

Senator Russ Feingold has stepped up to the plate:::

Feingold proposing target 'end date' for withdrawal
Posted by: ralpheh at August 19, 2005 06:18 PM

I heard he had one. You may not think so, but I ask someone else thank you very much.

Casey -

YES!!! Right on!!!

I am not opposed to hearing one or two or six or eight or ten different opinions on any discussion....

HOWEVER:

I'm patently sick and tired of drama-queen voices and editorial comments by "news" anchors, and heartily sick and tired of the WAY in which the "news" is presented with the neoCon opinion last... the neoCons symbolically "have the last word" on any infotainment news shows.... and quite frankly, since they've said the same White House and Pentagon propaganda ad nauseaum since just after 9/11, I'm bored senseless hearing their oft-repeated brainwashed opinions. (I have their schtick memorized, dammit, and I do not even watch infotainment news regularly! That annoys me!) I want ANY other opinions besides theirs (for now).

A couple of threads back I speculated about MSM infotainment setting up their viewers like reality TV viewers and got this response from Suz one or two threads back: "I forgot to tell you: I don't watch those reality shows either, but your comment about the media dividing people as if it were one of those shows seemed right on the money!"

I still don't know if I'm right nor not, just that cognitive dissonance sets in and I know viewers are being manipulated worse than even during the first Bu$h war when I was deconstructing media manipulation for the honors seminar I was in. This time it feels more sinister....

ralpheh,
You are getting the emails because John Bonifaz is on the Board of PDA and he is the lawyer who initiated the lawsuit that Kerry-Edwards is pulling out of.

Bonifaz is top-notch and I, personally, have a lot of respect for him. But this was a mis-call, in my opinion.

They obviously feel bad--they have worked hard on this effort. But telling people to harass JK for making a decision that is legally responsible was irresponsible on their part. They needed to do a little more research.

Ira can speak more directly to the burden of proof required for these lawsuits. The good news is that there is obviously much more proof of the civil rights violations in Ohio--and JK-JE will proceed with THOSE lawsuits.

**********8
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ralph: stop your constant attacks on JK. Some of us here are starting to get offended.
By the way what role did you play in the campaign last summer that gives you such authority to be making these constant unwarranted attacks against JK?
Don't recall seeing you here last summer.

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 06:26 PM
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Why do attack Kerry HE LOST IN 2004!!!! MISERABLY... I DO NOT WANT TO REPEAT THE LOSING, KERRY EXPERIENCE EVER AGAIN

Where was I last summer?? Working for the Democrats, and reluctantly working on the inept Kerry campaign after Dean "HD", Kucinich "DK", and the charismatic John Edwards "JE" had been defeated.

Where were you?

I'm jumping in at the end of this discussion about Kerry's approach to the obvious problems that occurred in Ohio in 04. I haven't read all the threads, I'm really busy at the moment.

But here is what strikes me EVERY TIME I hear these sorts of attacks on Kerry. People who bash him for not being visible with his work or for changing gears are ignorant of his history in public service. Those of us who have read the details know that no one gets things done in DC better than Kerry does. He is a man who knows exactly what he is doing, and he does it for his country and almost always at the expense of his own political career. He doesn't care - it might hurt him that those in his own party who favor theatrics over hard work bash him, but it doesn't deter him. He's been well bashed by the best many times over the years, and it never prevented him from acting on his principles and doing what reall works. The same could be said for a few others who seem to be targets of the theatrics folks.

I'm not saying I'll necessarily support his nomination for the presidency in 08. For one thing, I think that so-called progressives were responsible for giving the neocons much of their ammo against Kerry in 04, and I've no doubt that the same group will do it again in 08 if the elected nominee doesn't fit their required anti-everything image. It may be best this time to let the spoiled kids have their way in the interests letting the neocons come up with their own attacks.

BTW:
**********
*********
making these constant unwarranted attacks against JK?
Don't recall seeing you here last summer.

Posted by: Ira at August 19, 2005 06:26 PM
*******

Ira,

Does Kerry have a plan for the withdrawal of U.S. troops?? Or is the article on Feingold entirely correct that he is the first Democratic Senator to call for a withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq? And that the subject of "withdrawal of troops" has been taboo in the Senate until now??

ralph and ira,
Stop it or editing will ensue.

Ira was working his butt off in Colorado, ralph. Ralph was working his butt off too.

We all worked hard. The campaign was hardly perfect. But Kerry probably did win electorally, and probably did lose the popular vote.

And for nasty reasons too.

Let's move on to the next steps, OK?

Ralph,

Complaining about the campaign is a slap in the face and insult to those who worked hard to GOTV for Kerry, as well as know him personally. I didn't have the opportunity because of school. You should stop attacking those who sacrificed time and family and get over the primaries.

Let's move on to the next steps, OK?

Posted by: karen at August 19, 2005 06:55 PM

I agree Karen. Please delete my last post. It's a dupe

Ira,

***********
ralph: stop your constant attacks on JK. Some of us here are starting to get offended.
***********

Let me say something about being offended. Myself and other people who worked very hard for Kucinich, Dean, Gephardt, Clark and Edwards (and spent much of our own money on the local campaigns) get very, very , very tired of and offended at the misplaced Kerry worship. We were told by the Dem party leaders to shut-up and support Kerry, because he was "electable". Wow what a mistake...

Whenever you admiringly talk about "JK" I must remind you of what happened in 2004.

I may be speaking out of turn here. I am not a member of the DCP board or crew, I am a blogger here.

If I am speaking out of turn, someone just tell me and I will respect the consensus, but here is what I see, and this is how I feel.

Ralph,

If you are here to learn, and/or be part of something positive, please, by all means, stay and contribute information and thoughts and ideas on this blog.

If you are here to get attention by being loud and boisterous, contentious, and by attacking John Kerry, please pack your nimble fingers and your keyboard and go elsewhere.

This is a special time for all involved in this struggle, in my opinion. A time for renewed hope, reflection, and renewal of energy and resources that we will desperately need to carry us through in the year that lays ahead, along with '06, and '08.

As I have said before, John Kerry is a man who has put public service above his own comfort, many times. He is not perfect. None of us are. But, given all he was up against in '04, he did awfully damn well.

I do not mean to offend you, Ralph, but the constant negative references to Kerry are as a clanging cymbal here. We shared hopes, and dreams, and passion, and disappointment together as we watched a man work his heart out to fight unbelievable odds by corrupt evil forces against us, to be disappointed in the results. There is a difference between being disappointed in the results, and being disappointed in the man. When people "lose" they always want to blame a scapegoat. All in all, Ralph, Kerry did a better job than anyone else did in '04. Dean didn't make the primaries. Neither did anybody else. Kerry was our candidate.

It's time to quit clanging that old gong, and quit crashing those cymbals, and stop assigning blame. It's a waste. Can you think of even one person, ONE PERSON, Ralph, who could have done better? Well, then, where were they? Where were YOU?

I really don't want to hear a noisy gong and listen to the crashing of cymbals in the midst of a spiritual thing happening in America that has the potential to turn it around.

What is happening right now is profound. Some might even consider it a miracle.

Your picking at John Kerry is more than offensive to me. I find it annoying and distracting, and frankly, I am beyond being tired of it.

May I suggest you be concerned about what you can do to make a positive contribution, and take responsibility to do that, then DO it?

Enough, already.

ralpheh,

There was a lot of good in all the candidates you mention. Kerry was electable--and he won the electoral vote, as his campaign planned to do. Of this I am convinced. But I am telling you like it is. You can take your hurt feelings and go away, or you can stay here in this community and learn, along with the rest of us.

This is a process. No one sprang fully convinced of anything as of November 2, 2004. We have all worked very hard to understand and discover the truth.

Ask questions.

Get answers.

Work for change.

Uh, Ralph, Feingold is running for President in 2008. I would be surprised if he claimed anything else.

Next, you are going to run into quite a bit of opposition here if you continue to attack Kerry.

Losing an election is not an appropriate basis for an ongoing attack. The Soapbox area in the Forum might be a better place for that discussion or speechmaking.

There are a number of us here who have known John Kerry for a long time both personally and professionally, and we would crawl on broken glass for him anytime he asks. I still would.

What happened in the campaign is over, and I am hard-pressed to find anyone who was on the inside who still isn't somewhat shocked at the level of illegal activity by the opposition that went on.

I was not one of those "they stole Ohio" people, believe me. I was more one of those "they are Republicans, they should expect cheating" people. But then I thought to myself, WHY? Why should we allow ourselves to become so accustomed to dishonesty of the machinery of honest and free government that we must plan for it?

I will tell you something else Ralph, I am glad Kerry lost, given what happened with the Senate. If Kerry had won, he would not have been able to govern, but would have gotten all the blame. And NONE of the things, the widespread corruption would have been uncovered, because the Democrats would have been satisfied with the win and sat back on their fat asses until the next crisis came down the pike.

So now we are all working to expose the ENTIRE culture of corruption that has infected all of the mechanisms of our freedom and democracy.

There are any number of ways to view these things, Ralph, but in this crowd, rather than get into petty fights with people, you might take the opportunity to pick some brains and find out WHY people are so loyal to JK.

On the whole, this group strikes me as educated, thoughtful, passionate, and experienced in politics. If they are still this loyal to John Kerry, you might take the opportunity to find out why, and what you don't know about the man that inspires others to this level of trust. Especially this level of trust in a politician. I've been in politics a long time and it's pretty damn rare to find.

*and....*

TWENTY posts later I discover a new thread!

But..now that I see the temperature has risen on this thread, I think I'll go back to the cold, dead thread.

(lol)

Suz,

(LOL)..... I think I'll join her!

I think I will head over to Ron's for a bit of Friday Martini blogging.

What the hell is going on here? This is sickening. Now that WE have a chance to make some real progress, I come back to the blog and see a sad display of infighting. NOW GROW UP and let's stay focused. Use the forum if needed for these types of discussions. Refine your arguments there.

Posted by: oncall at August 19, 2005 07:31 PM

I agree.... I'm staying with current topics, OT or not, but current.... Learn from the past mistakes, but move forward and progress to positive changes... and soak up knowledge like a sponge....! :-)

Oncall,

Thanks. I think I'll take your advice.

I'm all for the grown-up talk and no in-fighting.

So...let's chat about 06. I really have this strong feeling that we need to be getting registrations NOW while we have the momentum. What do you think?

Amen Truth.

What is particularly annoying about this discussion is that those of us that have been here since the beginning of this site went rhrough this very same handringing for almost a month when the dcp started up literally weeks after the election.

I am particularly proud of Kare, suz, Diane, Indy and countless others who I have seen grow politically here by leaps and bounds since Nov. and I am not about to stand by and see us move backwards with the same wornout attacks on JK/JE that we saw last Nov. It serves absolutely no purpose, none, and weakens us as the cohesive unit we need to take on the Republican noise machine. And in fact it is this very devisiveness that causes us to lose elections as much as anything our candidates do tacticly.

Certainly Tactical Mistakes were made by the campaign, but that in no way speaks to the heart, passion, integrity or worthiness of our candidate. And by the way I attended several local Howard Dean rallies and meetups, I don't recall anyone ever telling Howard Dean,you,your friends,or followers to 'shut up and support Kerry' as you allege. Actually to be acurate it was Howard Dean himself who gracefully told his 'reluctant followers' to get on board and what a great president JK would have made.

You mentioned that you "Reluctantly" worked for JK. All I can say is that I have no regrets, would do it again in a heartbeat, and that our campaign staff and thousands of volunteers in Denver that I helped organize to travel many miles, leaving families, jobs,small busineses sick kids, and ailing parents thought otherwise about what you mischaracterize as a miserable campaign.

My heartfelt suggestion is that if you feel as passionately about Feingold, Bob Casey, Tim Kaine, or other candidates, that you contact their campaign or office staff, arrange to find time away from you job and family and prepare to work your a** off either this November in Va, Nov. '06 or Nov '08 as many of us here have already planned to do rather than directing your hostility towards the past and trashing our efforts and candidate.

Thanks Suz and ooncall for bringing sanity back here.

Suz is on to something. Perhaps we need to g o back to the voter registration rolls we worked on so hard last summer, contact those folks see if they have moved or changed precincts and get them reregistered. Suz you know that over 50% of those folks I called for moveon down in Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale hit by the hurricanes had disconnected phones and had in all likelihood moved several times since being registered. Sen. Nelson will need everone of those lost registrants if there is a way to track them down and get them re-registered.Maybe Linda can help in that regard. And I receive an email from the startup campaign office staff of Bob Casey several weeks ago if others here need a Pa contact.

Casey:

I agree with your strategy regarding labeling the media as offically Conservative.

You referenced an Ann Couler quote of "So I have an idea. Now that Ann Coulter has officially declared that "we have the media",

So as not to be accused of taking her words out of context as the right is so skilled at doing, can we get the entire quote and source where you found this Ann Coulter quote. I don't doubt its accuracy, but would like to read the whole paragraph and where and when and context where it was said, to use her statement in letters to the editor, etc.

Ira,

I'll gladly go to Florida, January through April and do this work, even if I have to walk each mile, if people will pay my way and give me food. (Oh...and provide a chauffer for my daugther!)

Hey...that's not asking for THAT much is it? Travel ticket, lodging, chauffer...

"There are a number of us here who have known John Kerry for a long time both personally and professionally, and we would crawl on broken glass for him anytime he asks. I still would."

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at August 19, 2005 07:06 PM

Count me among those, TSP. But I'd also crawl on broken glass for Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, John Conyers and a host of other Dems.... Whatever it takes to restore some sanity in DC, I'm there.

Posted by: Amy at August 19, 2005 08:37 PM

Amy,

I'd crawl on broken glass for a trip to Florida... I'll check those registrations. And I'll wave hi to Jeb...just get me to the state on time!

Addressing the thread topic, I remember Carl Bernstein saying something similar when the Swifties struck. That we give almost parity to something clearly wrong, or not deserving of that much credibility, or substance. We almost have to disprove it, immediately, by presenting too even-handedly. Rather than investigating before presenting with a point of view more accurate.

Regarding Russ Feingold, he obviously wants the anti-war vote early, saying he's first. Just like Dean. When many want stoked the passion for leaving, but still needing to find out how to fix the china shop and change opinions from hate. We owe them.

Months ago, before Bush's speech, Kerry said we had to claim no designs on their future, or permanent bases. Something Bush won't promise. There are those who stoke, and those who fix.

Ira, Anne Coulter was talking about the nomination of Roberts to the supreme court. On air, she said she didn't know why Bush didn't nominate someone more extreme right. She said "After all, we have the media now." I read the transcript, can't find it now. But there's no confusing her meaning in my view. This happened several weeks ago....

CNN HEADLINE NEWS is doing a tribute to Casey Sheehan right now.

HARRY REID SUFFERS MILD STROKE

WASHINGTON -- The Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, suffered a brief mini-stroke Tuesday but suffered no complications and feels fine, aides said Friday.

The 65-year-old minority leader, one of the Democratic party's most visible national leaders, was examined by doctors and now feels fine, his press secretary Tessa Hafen said.

"There are no complications or any restrictions on his activities. He has undergone evaluations this week, and his doctors have recommended that he take advantage of the summer congressional recess for some downtime," Hafen said.

The statement said Reid sought medical attention at the urging of his wife, Landra. He was told he had experienced a transient ischemic attack.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/19/AR2005081901457.html

Posted by: Amy at August 19, 2005 08:37 PM

Amy, 'twas not me.

'Twas our ever wise spinnaker.

Posted by: Amy at August 19, 2005 08:37 PM

Anyway, CNN Headline news said they are going to pay tribute to Casey Sheehan, and tell us more about him this half hour.

as opposed to Pa, Jan to April Suz?
sorry don't know how to find the chauffer thing for your dgtr, we could always start her home schooling in politics 101 though.

Casey -

Check this out...the perfect political cartoon for this thread:

http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/cartoons/babin/story/13440001p-14281025c.html

Ira,

I AM NOT GOING TO PA IN JANUARY!

It's FLORIDA or a Caribbean Island. I'm negotiable on that Ira!

Posted by: cali dem at August 19, 2005 09:26 PM

Cali dem,

I've missed your humor! Glad you're back!

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Uh, Ralph, Feingold is running for President in 2008. I would be surprised if he claimed anything else.

Next, you are going to run into quite a bit of opposition here if you continue to attack Kerry.

Losing an election is not an appropriate basis for an ongoing attack. The Soapbox area in the Forum might be a better place for that discussion or speechmaking.

There are a number of us here who have known John Kerry for a long time both personally and professionally, and we would crawl on broken glass for him anytime he asks. I still would.

UH... Spinnaker looks John K. is still hankering for the White House.

And Uh... Spinnaker "JK" lost the 2004 election to a barely articulate, lying, draft-dodger. How can you possibly explain this away? That does not EVEN give you an pause about good old "JK"??

This is truly disheartening. It seems that we have many here who have already nominated Kerry for 2008 without even bothering with a primary process. So Marg and Ira and Spinaker, let's dispense with the primaries altogether!!! YOU KNOW JOHN KERRY and He is GOOD. You have picked THE MAN for 2008 - "JK".

Listen it is time for me to go

The autumn moon lights my way

I smell the rain and with it pain

and it's headed my way....

Adios.

Do you think the Bushco Propaganda machine is worried?

Joe Scarboroughs big stories tonigt were an interview with a suspect in Natalie Halloway's disappearance in Aruba and a story about a missing honeymoon groom. This is the kind of "news" that substitutes for worthy journalism when we are subjectd to Bushco Propaganda.

Instead CNN will be presenting Dead Wrong on Sunday NIght. It deals with the disasterous "intelligence failure" and manipulation of said intelligence to promote George Bush's war.

Posted by: oncall at August 19, 2005 10:27 PM

aka "Follow The Yellow Prick Road"

Ralph

We don't know about, and, in fact, we don't want to discuss 2008 while other issues are more immediate. You might concentrate on some that need work, before flying around in who calls what first about leaving. Who is more anti-war based on an early call. That allegiance is just too easy, and your vote needs to be harder earned.

Feingold is good, not saintly pure, and we hope you see that for the good of his or any candidacy. Better to bring people along with you.

Chuck in Houston for Amy:

Sorry for being off topic, but Amy, I recall a while back that you were saying some of your GOP Clark/Slamania County acquaintences would always throw back the "but we haven't been hit by another terorist attack since 9/11" line, and you wondered how a person might rebutt. Well, here is mine. On 26-Feb-93, the WTC was bombed. Six people died. One 09-Apr-95, the Federal Building in Oklahoma City was bombed. 168 people died. Then 9/11/01. So, we went six years between OK and WTC II. Your GOP acquaintences probably need to bone-up on the concept of statistical significance. I know, a bit much to ask.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck in Houston again:

Sorry about the typos. And "Slamania" = "Skamania." Also, it might be apropos at such moments to point out that the overwhelmingly bi-partisan support for (1) focusing on the Taliban and (2)the detentions (which raise other issues, I'll frely stipulate) may well have helped disrupt other planned attacks. But these were completely bi-partisan (and rather obvious) measures so I can't se why the current adminstration would deserve any particular credit there.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck in Houston again on the Ralph thing:

Well, just to throw in my two-cents, I wholeheartedly agree with those saying that encouraging disrespect for Kerry/Edwards '04 is not exactly the best thing we could be doing right now. Also, it seems that this Ralph seems to think that this blog is basically a Kerry '08 blog -- which it has never been in my opinion (not that there is anything wrong with that). In fact, this blog has almost never got into 2008 speculation. People here seem to be more focussed on the current situation as it develops and the challenge of 2006.

Chuck in Houston (off topic again -- sorry)

PS: Is Cali Dem Calif_Dem?

Chuck,

I heard Ed Schultz today. He was rebutting the fight over there so we don't get hit here argument. His argument was (paraphrasing) "We were already hit here on 9/11, doesn't that count?"

Oncall:

That "fight them there instead of here" thing, when applied to Iraq, is a classical example of how this adminsitration excels at the art of making statements that cannot be tested empirically. How do we beat that? It is a very difficult tactic for intellecutally ethical (or honest or coherent) to combat. If a person knows something about the region, which I do, it is easy to see that the administration's claim is dishonest. It is also very difficult to make that arguement with people that do not really understand how some parts (most parts) of the world work (see: Joe Wilson's quixotic attempt).

Chuck in Houston

Chuck,

Basically Ed Schultz was saying we lost the battle here-accept it.

Posted by: ralpheh at August 19, 2005 10:09 PM

Ralph,

Let's just concentrate on 06. I think we need to just say, "How can we work together to get progressives elected."

This is not about Kerry in 08. It's about elections in 06. It's about helping people learn to get involved in saving our democracy.

Not everyone here sees eye to eye on everything, but we try to see how we can formulate or bounce plans off each other to work for the issues and/or candidates that will make a difference.

The thing is that fighting about Kerry, Feingold, or Kennedy does no good. Wouldn't you prefer to formulate plans on how to hold Frist or Delay accountable and get our House and Senate back? I know I would. And most of us,(it seems to me), are more worried about elections in 06 and getting the reforms we want than worrying about candidates in 08.

Oncall in the Land of Lincoln:

I don't think we can afford to lose that one -- it cuts too close to the heart of all that is wrong about the course we are on. And the truth is slowly coming out. To my mind, the concept ought to be how do we facillitate, or foster, or encourage, the promulgation of the truth. You can fool all of the people some of the time....

Chuck in Houston

Chuck in Houston for Oncall Again:

Also, on that, I think that the concept of the "memory hole" applies here, and is also, I think on topic! The whole "fight them there not here" thing assumes we cannot get are arms around countless authoritative refutations of any connection between Saddam and 9/11 (or even muslim extremism directed against the USA). The record actually speaks for itself, and the facts actually speak for themselves. So the challenge becomes: how can we keep the record and the facts in the public eye?

Chuck in Houston

Chuck in Houston for Suz:

You go! What you said! On another level, why do so many "progressives" feel that it is more important to beat up on their own rather than beat up on the enemy? I never could figure that one out. By the way, I like Dean, Edwards, Gephardt and Clark a lot, and I respect the heck out fo Kucinich. I would have got behind any one of them just as I got behind JK.

Chuck in Houston

Chuck,

As one of our bloggers knows "Truth Shall Prevail". We need to keep repeating the truth and continue to question the lies of which we have been victims. We have to hold the media accountable. We write letters to the editor, we talk to others about what has happened. We work with one person at a time to help them understand the truth. After that, we ask them to talk with others as we move on to talk with others. That is how our movement will win this battle-one person at a time until there are too many people who wont accept the lies from Bushco Propaganda. Over the past two weeks we have seen this phenomenon occurring.

I have to say I have witnessed the discussions among the progressive leadership about whagt directions to go in--even on the same issue.

Take Iraq. There is not, so far, a clear sense of whether the actions should be about Iraq and all the related issues (the economy, the Middle East, religion, etc) so that a small group of ideological purists can cover a wide range of concerns (i.e. shutting down institutions) OR whether tis better to provide a big tent for many to focus on ONE issue: Let's figure out how to get ourselves out of the Iraq mess.

And within that latter group, not all agree that immediate withdrawal is the right way to go.

The point here is that there IS no single direction to go in that is guaranteed to work, and/or to unite the people.

It is going to take honest dicussion, good analysis, and heart-centered listening to come to consensus.

I would like to think we can be a model for how to do that kind of discussion WELL.

So what do you think? In the scenarios I wrote about above, where do you fall right now?

Chuck in Houston for Karen:

Well, speaking for myself on this Iraq issue, I would take a step back and look at the reasons why America should occupy another country (principles), and, if, in the event such principles have been violated, how to make good the damage we caused. In this sense, discussions about Iraq aren't about tactics or even regional strategy, all of which admit of a huge variety of good-faith disagreements, but rather about taking one step back and thinking about what we are trying to do. In my naive world-view, strategies and tactics would then follow. Hope that made sense.

Chuck in Houston

How the blue trade winds blow in Hawaii....

Today is a holiday, admissions day, the day we were annexed. Lots of folks turned up for the same marching, (Hilo)-- always ignored by ANY media. Nothing new.

The 'GOOD' news... ran into a bunch of independant friends, almost got to vote Kerry and just at that last second, the terror fear news thing came up again (well, you remember!) and they ended up going bush.

I casually asked how they felt now about the man they had voted for... and they swore they would never do it again. Promised to vote straight blue at least for the next 'biggies'.

We talked alot about our 'demo?' senators. We are hoping even akaka is getting that the republicans are only using him, that he may get a hyway or 2 but he won't get his akaka bill up. Even if he does, the groups against his bill have many repubs to use, if they need to, to stop it.

The general feelings point towards voting democratic no matter what. We talked about a woman president. Something about that feels pretty good.
Although the women around remarked how 'nervous' that sort of talk made the men. We laughed, we laugh alot. They make some strong Hawaiian women here who talk sense and say it simple and true.

"Can't do any worse than the men have done!" She says! And we all laughed again, even the men.

~*~

I get my 'news' from c-span and have come to depend on 'mainstream-media' more like you might look at a soap-opera. It tells you how the beautiful people are 'dressing' for the moment but you know the drama will never end!

oh and ps
i love john kerry, always have and always will!
i wish it was ok to allow our politicians to at least be human. otherwise we get these damned 'kings'

aloha nui loa
Posted REALLY at 6:16 PM hawaii time

Am I in a time warp & it's the primaries for 2004 again?!

Kennedy/Kerry backer here for 3-4 decades but Yellow Dog Dem also.

DiAnne,

LOL, deja vu all over again!

But here at the DCP, we are not partisan, just sensible--we look at the issues and concerns of a democracy. No endorsements, and little lobbying on issues. Mostly we are all here to learn.

And YOU are one of the MOST popular teachers!

The MSM is not to be confused with actual news any longer. It is a cash machine for corporations, they conduct polls and slant stories to generate ratings to sell Ad space. Sometimes the print media feeds networks, and sometimes the other way around. In any case the truth is not a goal.

"So what do you think? In the scenarios I wrote about above, where do you fall right now"

If you want to get out of a Problem, you must examine the circumstances that created the problem,
Mr. Chalabi supplied the white house and pentagon with their main source of intelligence regarding political and social situation in Iraq. He was a Paid consultant by the Pentagon for many years, and spoon fed our gullible White House fabricated lies about Iraq.
Mr. Chalabi is an Iranian Spy, and accomplished an incredible coup in the world of Intelligence; He fooled an Entire Government. Today Mr. Chalabi manages a pretty good chunk of Iraq and is signing large contracts with Iran;
Our government was so focused on any reason to invade Iraq a foreign Spy penetrated the highest levels of the White House and Pentagon.

The biggest monetary benificiary of the Iraqi War are defense contractors and Petroleum Industry.
Please google senior white house staff and advisors, almost every one held a consulting or director position with defense contractors and or petroleum industry. When they leave the White house they will go right back to their stock options and corner offices;
Our government is run by people with financial agendas and dual loyalties.

Our men and women die, lose limbs, lose their sight and live not knowing who will be next in their unit.

Iraqi mothers and fathers killed in this war have children. We are cultivating an entire Generation of Iaqis that have every reason to hate what America has done in Iraq. There are estimates ranging from 25,000-100,000 people killed. How many orphans is that...?

I dont understand why there is even a Hesitation by our Senate to open investigations into the completely inept manner our government made the decision to invade Iraq, and continues to defend such a moronic decision.

There is No upside in staying. We only make it worse, for ourselves and the brave people serving an inept government. Get them Home, get them Home Now.

So Toolmaker, what would you say to those who say, and while we're at it, let's take down the World Bank and several other institutions that have no business being in business?

Posted by: karen at August 19, 2005 11:58 PM

I have been giving a great deal of thought to the very questions you are asking tonight.

The analogy I have used before is a circus. Let's make it a ten ring circus. We have so many raging fires we aren't sure which one to focus on, they are all dangerous if left alone, and there are new ones popping up every day. As we keep a watch on them, speak and write about them, we are educating one another to the truths and challenges that are staring us in the face.

I have noticed that, for myself, I get aquainted with one situation, one challenge, and get educated about it enough to understand why it's important, but then another fire has broken out and it's time to do the same thing again.

I don't stay on one issue long enough to be able to get past the "learning about it" stage, because there are always more coming, and, then I am onto another topic trying to learn as much as I can about that. I have seen how that is so very important, because nothing turns people off more than looking into a person's eyes who is telling them they are on the wrong track, yet not knowing all the answers. I find as my knowledge level grows, my confidence grows, and I am able to relay my message in a strong, crisp, concise way.

How do we get to the place beyond where we are now, to effect change? I am saying we as I, maybe here in this instance.

I needed to learn. I still do. There comes a day when you just have to start weaning yourself away from learning (some - not all) and put your energy into something that is going to make a difference. The learning time I have spent does make a big difference, I can tell people various things that took me weeks and months learning, in an hour by compacting the essence of what I have learned, taking a message from that, and deliver it.

How do I get more involved? How do I begin to put my knowledge to work?

As to your question about how I fall on Iraq, without seeing anything concrete, I feel that maybe this war was a colossal mistake, and perhaps more soldiers will die trying to leave it better than it was when we bombed it, but I dread the fact that we may not be able to leave it in good condition. There has never been a democracy in Iran, only Theocracy.

Today, I don't have many answers.

For Oncall and Ira,

http://webpages.charter.net/micah/taft.jpg

DiAnne:

I'll be a Yellow Dog until the last dog dies!

Chuck in Houston.

PS: I really do respect Kucinich. And I liked Insley on CO2 and climate change.

Greetings friends!

I shall be working at a grassroots activist booth & others will be recruiting voters this weekend at (don't laugh) Hempfest http://www.hempfest.org - well, over 250,000 show up for this & we don't want them to be apathetic!!

Here is a local "plug" -

Report From Camp Casey:

The Backbone Campaign and the Progressive Action Alliance http://www.progressiveactionalliance.org/ are teaming up to get Cindy Sheehan a Spine Award in the coming week. Charlie Lindahl, who helped carry the Backbone Puppet in Boston last summer helped put this together after a visit to the Peace House and Camp Casey this week.

Art Ruger of Military Families Speak Out Northwest, whose wife Lietta is in Crawford and whose son is currently finishing up his service in Iraq has a post at DailyKos about the multiple layers of obligation between service members, Commander and Chief, and family and citizens at home. Click here http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/19/112943/462#114 to read Art's essay. Then consider donating to MFSO NW to help pay travel expenses military families to join the vigil in Crawford. MFSO Pacific Northwest http://coastalrain.tripod.com/wmfso/ needs your help. As our movement grows we cannot be handicapped by a lack of resources when a moment to act arises.

Chuck in Houston signing off:

One last thought on Iraq. There are no silver bullets. This situation we have gotten ourselves into is complex. I don't believe dragging the oil companies or the IMF or the World Bank or Matt Busby or Doris Day into the discussion will clarify anything. The petroleum reserves of the middle east are a huge strategic asset. I believe that it is incredibly naive to ignore that fact or to confuse it with market issues such as corporate profits. I also believe that we are digging ourselves ever deeper into a hole in the middle east with the way we have been conducting our business there and I also believe that the complete lack of leadership toward developing energy independence, in the long run, amounts to extreme negligence. What I am trying to say is that no one can speak to the right way out of the Iraq mess we have gotten ourselves into without addressing all of these issues, which is why I always advocate going back to a discussion of the sort of principles, or values, that ought to inform us as to when a foreign entanglement is advisable, and if so, how.

Good night all and GOTV 2006!

Chuck in Houston

Chuck in Houston with one clarification:

You know, above I mentioned the "mess we have gotten ourselves into." Well, I neglected to emphasize that we got a bunch of other folks into the mess with us. This also makes an "end game" more complicted. Ultimately, there is no end-game for US entanglements in the middle east until we have set down the marker for energy independence and enunciated the principles that should govern our foreign affairs. And while we are at it, let's expand that marker to incude environmentally sustainable energy independence.

Chuck in Houston

I'm glad Ralph got our message about not bashing Dems on this site. I'd find it just as distasteful if he found it necessary to bash any other Dem who's working hard for us all. Dammit all anyway, why do so many progressives find it necessary to waste so much energy attacking our own?

I'm working on a project that I'd like to share with others, and get some feedback and advice. Suggestions even. Where to post? Here?

http://www.charlierose.com/
I caught the second half hour of Charlie Rose interviewing Rummy, and I'm incoherent from talking back to the TV.... If anyone can find a transcript of this show by Monday afternoon, please email me the transcript. Rummy blew smoke up Rose's butt for every leading question Rose asked, and repeated every lie we've heard for the last two years and added a few (sorry, but I didn't think to record it) - not only the words, but his body language was LYING. Probably best I didn't see the first half hour as my blood pressure must be through the roof (I actually have chest pains I'm so angry, so it must be anxiety - it's certainly not heartburn from anything I ate!). Media Manipulation 101 Deconstruction needs to be done on that transcript...!!!

Chuck, regarding Iraq,

It seems clear that regardless of the "strategic assets" of the middle east, they don't belong to us. It is not up to us to "have" them.

The fact is that we invaded a sovereign nation without provocation, and in this country, that is was against the law. It's costing us billions and we're borrowing the money. Every day we stay, the price we're paying grows exponentially, in at least three ways - we create more enemies, we lose more Americans, and we blow more money.

Would it be immoral to pull out now, and let the Iraqis clean up the mess themselves? Probably, but no more immoral than continuing to be the cause of more and more deaths of innocent Iraqis. And certainly not as immoral as it was to go in there in the first place.

I just don't think we can continue to think in terms of strategic assets when so many innocent people are getting killed every day. We need to let go of our sense of entitlement to their oil, and that will lead to a more responsible energy policy here in the US.

{{{ I don't get CNN. Is this good or bad? Any anchor refusing to do a show about the Holloway case seems really, really surprising to me for MSM....}}}

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050819/ap_en_tv/tv_costas_walks
Costas Refuses to Host Show on Holloway
Excerpt (more on link):
NEW YORK - While some cable TV hosts are making their living off the Natalee Holloway case this summer, Bob Costas is having none of it.

Costas, hired by CNN as an occasional fill-in on "Larry King Live," refused to anchor Thursday's show because it was primarily about the Alabama teenager who went missing in Aruba. Chris Pixley filled in at the last minute.

"I didn't think the subject matter of Thursday's show was the kind of broadcast I should be doing," Costas said in a statement. "I suggested some alternatives but the producers preferred the topics they had chosen. I was fine with that, and respectfully declined to participate."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/opinion/19krugman.html
What They Did Last Fall
Excerpt:
Our current political leaders would suffer greatly if either house of Congress changed hands in 2006, or if the presidency changed hands in 2008. The lids would come off all the simmering scandals, from the selling of the Iraq war to profiteering by politically connected companies. The Republicans will be strongly tempted to make sure that they win those elections by any means necessary. And everything we've seen suggests that they will give in to that temptation.

PUSHING 'MODERATE' DEMOCRATS TO THE RIGHT
Ari Berman, The Nation
Behind Capitol Hill's Democratic war hawks like Joe Biden nd Hillary Clinton stands a 'strategic class' of political and media enablers.
http://www.alternet.org/story/24296/

NARAL's controversial ad about John Roberts obscures the real issue: We haven't built an electorate willing to protect women's rights.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050819/its_not_about_the_ad.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/international/americas/19immunity.html
Bush's Aid Cuts on Court Issue Roil Latin American Neighbors
Excerpts:
BOGOTÁ, Colombia, Aug. 18 - Three years ago the Bush administration began prodding countries to shield Americans from the fledgling International Criminal Court in The Hague, which was intended to be the first permanent tribunal for prosecuting crimes like genocide.

The United States has since cut aid to some two dozen nations that refused to sign immunity agreements that American officials say are intended to protect American soldiers and policy makers from politically motivated prosecutions.
. . . . . . . . . .
Most of the penalties, outlined in a law that went into effect in 2003, have been in the form of cuts in military training and other security aid. But a budget bill passed in December also permits new cuts in social and health-care programs, like AIDS education and peacekeeping, refugee assistance and judicial reforms.
. . . . . . . . . .
Many legal scholars say it is unlikely that Americans would ever face the court because its focus is on the most egregious of war crimes, like systematic genocide, and the court is intended to try cases from countries where the judicial systems are unable or unwilling to handle such cases. There are also safeguards that would give the United States' own military and civilian courts jurisdiction over Americans.

But Bush administration officials, including some at the State Department, assert that the court could still move against American officials.

"The exposure faced by the United States goes well beyond people on active duty and it includes decision-makers in our government," said a high-ranking State Department official who was authorized to speak about the policy but only if he was not identified. "We're not hallucinating that our officials are at risk."

"The idea is that the court gets to second-guess if it's not satisfied," the official added.

Bruce Broomhall, director of the center for the study of international law and globalization at the University of Quebec in Montreal, disagrees. He noted that for the court to act against a suspected war criminal, the prosecutor must satisfy the judges that the host country was "shielding the individual concerned from criminal responsibility."

Still, Mr. Broomhall said, there is "a glimmer" of an argument behind the administration's concern. "If the crime is sufficiently organized and intense and a crime against humanity - if you get past that first threshold - it's potentially a crime within the jurisdiction of the court," he said.

Others, like Richard Dicker of Human Rights Watch, acknowledge that there are countries that may want to use the court "as a political battering ram."

"What's in dispute," said Mr. Dicker, director of international justice for the group, "is what kinds of safeguards are necessary to prevent these kinds of distortions. The United States has adopted a solution that's inimical to the rule of law, that says because we're the most powerful state in the world, we'll create a two-tiered system of justice."

Bush Reauthorizes Shoot to Kill in Columbia
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805R.shtml
President Bush on Wednesday authorized the United States to continue helping Colombian authorities ground or even shoot down planes suspected of carrying illegal drugs. The program was put on hold in 2001 when a small plane carrying American missionaries was shot down over Peru.

{{{ WTF?!? Who died and gave pResNitwit any authority in Columbia?!? }}}

PS: Is Cali Dem Calif_Dem?

Posted by: Chuck at August 19, 2005 11:01 PM

Yes, it's me.

US Adding Troops, Building Prisons in Iraq
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805L.shtml
The number of prisoners held in US military detention centers in Iraq has more than doubled since the autumn, climbing from 5,400 in September to more than 10,800 now, according to the latest Pentagon figures.

{{{ Ummmmm... So this means what? Building enough prisons in Iraq to house all the adult males in Iraq to lessen the resistance to the US invasion?!?!? }}}

Roberts Questioned Value of Women Lawyers
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905Z.shtml
Supreme Court nominee John Roberts disparaged state efforts to combat discrimination against women in Reagan-era documents made public Thursday, and wondered whether "encouraging homemakers to become lawyers contributes to the common good."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/18/AR2005081802041.html
Roberts Resisted Women's Rights
1982-86 Memos Detail Skepticism

Reagan Files Paint Court Nominee as a Watchdog
WASHINGTON - As a White House lawyer in the Reagan administration, John G. Roberts Jr. did not spend all of his time analyzing the great legal issues of the day. Instead, judging from the thousands of pages of his files that were released Thursday, the Supreme Court nominee spent much of his time acting as a gatekeeper and editor for the president.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-roberts19aug19,0,5491555.story

Court Upholds Restrictions on Pentagon Coverage of Abortions
WASHINGTON - A federal appeals court in San Francisco upheld sweeping restrictions on insurance coverage of abortion under the Pentagon's health system, ruling that the procedure would not be covered even if physicians had diagnosed fatal birth defects.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-milhealth19aug19,0,6022758.story
The medical plan won't pay for a sailor's wife's procedure. Her fetus had a fatal birth defect.
Excerpt:
"We are very disappointed," said Lisa Stone, executive director of the Northwest Women's Law Center in Washington state, the legal organization that represented Jane Doe. "In the case of anencephaly — which is 100% diagnosable and 100% lethal — there is no human life. So the reason the government puts forward does not apply."

U.S. is approaching a spiritual death.
Redemption Within Reach for the American Empire
By Jason Miller
Our dark cabal of Neocon leaders, several of whom have held positions of great power under Reagan, Bush I, and now Bush II, are perpetuating unrestrained expansion of the American Empire while utilizing Orwellian propaganda to convince its subjects that they are still living in the "land of the free".
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9849.htm
{{{ Excellent essay! The only thing I would quibble with is the word "approaching." The US's spiritual death occurred with the sanctioning of torture and putting pResNitwit above the law and able to run this country like a dictator. We crossed too many lines to an uncivilized society then..., IMHO.}}}

America's Good Germans?
A Mercenary Society
By Robert Jensen
Since the end of World War II, the U.S. power elite have done a masterful job of transforming the country into a militarized state with a permanent wartime economy. There has always been resistance to that project on the margins, but because the United States is an incredibly affluent nation -- and these policies promise continued affluence -- there is strong motivation for many to ignore the consequences of this militarization.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9837.htm
{{{ Wow!}}}

America Programmed for War: Cause and Solution
“What one generation perceives as repression, the next accepts as a necessary part of a complex daily life.”
By Brian Bogart
A single policy decision made in secluded chambers of the White House shortly after World War II explains why our financial and intellectual creativity focuses on lethal technologies, why 51% of our taxes go to defense and less than 5% to education, why there are 6000 military bases in the United States and 1000 US bases overseas, why comprehensive agendas support warfighting and weak agendas address human services and the environment, and why our top industry since 1950 remains the manufacture and sale of weapons.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9831.htm
{{{ Long, but full of information!}}}

World Running Out of Time for Oil Alternatives
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0818-04.htm

{{{ Short, sweet, and to the point! Maybe we need to send this off to media outlets?!? }}}

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081805A.shtml
Who Are the Real Puppets?

I'm working on a project that I'd like to share with others, and get some feedback and advice. Suggestions even. Where to post? Here?

Posted by: Amy at August 20, 2005 02:09 AM

Amy,

Wow! You were up early. Here's what I think you may want to do with getting feedback. I think you should ask people to join you in the irc at a specific time and we can all join you there and discuss your idea and you can get immediate feedback.

Then if you/we want we can post the idea and conversation in the forum.

What do you think?

GROVE CITY, Ohio - In November, Ohio was at the center of the national political stage, delivering the White House to President Bush.

ADVERTISEMENT

Eight months later, the state's Republican Party is reeling: its leader convicted of ethics violations; a narrow win in a gimmie congressional district; an investment scandal that won't go away.

The troubles play out as the casualty rate climbs from the war in Iraq and the state economy remains stuck in a slump. The war could hurt Bush's standing in Ohio, mirroring a decline in his popularity nationally. His overall job approval was at 42 percent in a recent poll, with just 38 percent approving of his handling of Iraq.

Diane McCune, who lives in this solidly GOP Columbus suburb, bucked her Democratic roots twice and voted for President Bush, but now she's having second thoughts.

"I'm not feeling so good," McCune said. "I think we maybe made a mistake putting him in there."

As for Ohio's Gov. Bob Taft, convicted Thursday for not reporting that he was treated to dozens of golf outings, the 50-year-old teacher's aide shook her head. "Taft, I feel, has kind of made a joke out of all of us."

Republicans have had a firm grip on Ohio for a decade, controlling the Legislature, all statewide offices and a majority of congressional seats. Not long ago the talk was which of the three GOP candidates would win the primary for governor next year and presumably the job itself.

That talk has changed.

GOP Senate President Bill Harris, an ex-Marine and Vietnam veteran, said support remains strong for the president and the war. But he acknowledged that the people he represents in small cities and rural areas north of Columbus are concerned about the losses.

"They're saying to me, 'Get this settled, and move forward. We can't continue to let it (the war) drag out,'" Harris said.

After years of slight Democratic gains, the landscape has changed.

"This disastrous development for Taft and the Ohio Republicans opens a great opportunity for the Democrats next year to argue for a complete housecleaning in Columbus," said Alec Lamis, a Case Western Reserve University political scientist.

Hundreds of people lined Grove City streets last week for the funeral procession of Lance Cpl. Eric J. Bernholtz, one of 16 Ohio Marines killed in three attacks in Iraq since July 28.

The funeral was held just down the street from the high school where a marching band feted Vice President Dick Cheney and his wife, Lynne, during a fall campaign appearance.

Earlier this month, Republican Jean Schmidt barely kept the 2nd Congressional seat — long a GOP freebie — in Republican hands. Democrat Paul Hackett combined his credentials as an Iraqi war vet with a campaign that repeatedly attacked Bush and labeled his opponent as a "Bob Taft Republican."

Now Taft's problems have given Democrats more fodder than they could possibly have wished for.

A scandal that began with a prominent GOP contributor's investment of state money in rare coins has ballooned to include 15 state and federal agencies investigating allegations of risky investments and illegal campaign contributions to Bush.

Taft, the great-grandson of President William Howard Taft, ended up in a courtroom that usually hears theft and traffic cases, concluding one of the most stunning political stumbles in state history. Taft was fined $1,000 for each of four misdemeanor counts.

On Friday, he fulfilled part of his court-ordered sentence by apologizing via e-mail to all state employees. He already apologized to all of Ohio with a statement to the media.

"It is an embarrassing and sad time for all Ohioans," said state Rep. Chris Redfern, the top-ranking House Democrat in the market for a run for some statewide office.

Democrats for the most part have held off calling for Taft's resignation — he insists he's staying — preferring to use his woes and the investment scandal in next year's election. But on Friday, Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman, who is seeking the Democratic nomination, became the first to publicly ask Taft to step down.

"We cannot afford one more day in which the governor is preoccupied with these scandals at the expense of a focus on creating jobs, reforming education, and moving Ohio forward," Coleman said in a statement.

Five candidates want Taft's job, including Coleman and Republican Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, who was criticized for his handling of voting procedures in Ohio's close presidential race.

Coleman, who has a son in the same Ohio-based unit that lost 14 Marines in two days, suggested the war is a ripe issue for Democrats.

"There is a growing sense of opposition to the policies that led us to this war, but also growing support for the warriors," said Coleman, who has twice had to wait for hours to learn of his son's fate following reports of heavy losses.

Lifelong Republican Tim Massaro said he's not ready to change his political allegiance, saying Taft's problems reflect a reality of political behavior. But he acknowledges that support for the war probably has waned.

"Just so many people getting killed, and not finding any weapons of mass destruction," Massaro said.

___

On the Net:

Ohio Republican Party: http://www.ohiogop.org/

Ohio Democratic Party: http://www.ohiodems.org/

Email Story IM Story Discuss Printable View RECOMMEND

Ira,

Here's you go. You may want to make sure that you listen to this with an empty stomach. It's Ann Coulter on Sean Hannity. So sorry it has come to this. I tried to spare all of you by not putting in the link.

Oh, dear. Pepto-Bismol all around I suppose.

Posted by: Chuck at August 19, 2005 11:40 PM

Suz in wolverine-land to Chuck in Baku, Formerly Chuck in ____, formerly Chuck in Texas, currently just Chuck

Chuck,

YEA! I'm so excited. You liked my comment!

:)

I'm glad someone did. And I love how you write Chuck to _____! I have very fond memories of it.

Posted by: Amy at August 20, 2005 02:09 AM

Post it in the forum and then let the blog know that it is there. That way people can comment on it.

Five candidates want Taft's job, including Coleman and Republican Secretary of State Ken Blackwell, who was criticized for his handling of voting procedures in Ohio's close presidential race.

(Just noticed that sentence...)

Gee, if Blackwell runs do you think it will look mighty suspicious for Mr. Fraud and supression to run his own election and pass out the poll booths too? He'll just avoid a few key areas--LIKE Toledo, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, etc...Oh...I know, he'll put ONE machine for every 150 miles and put two in his own hometown.

SORRY--meant to indicate that I added the links you requested to the story.

Bolton Tries to Force Line-By-Line UN Reform Revision
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905A.shtml
The United States has launched a last-minute drive to scrap much of a draft plan for comprehensive UN reform just weeks before it is to be adopted at a world summit.

{{{ I'd guess Bolton's shenanigans at the UN would be one reason pResNitwit "allows" MSM to dwell on Cindy Sheehan at his gate this month....}}}

Planning for post-Saddam regime change began as early as October 2001:
Newly declassified State Department documents show that planning for the transition in Iraq began in October 2001, according to a "Project History"
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB163/index.htm

Support Said Growing for Iraq Exit Plan
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905E.shtml
Congressman Walter Jones said Thursday he has about 50 co-sponsors on a joint resolution that calls on President Bush to announce by year's end a plan for withdrawal from Iraq.

What Does the Administration’s Leaked Mea Culpa on Iraq Portend?
By Robert Higgs
The United States began its occupation of Germany and Japan sixty years ago, yet large U.S. military bases remain in those countries today. Does anyone really believe the Americans will walk away from their mega-bases in Iraq just because the Iraqis want the Yankees to go home?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9869.htm

David Morse | War of the Future: Oil Drives the Genocide in Darfur
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0819-26.htm

OK...does anyone know what is going on with that Independent TV News Media? Who do I have to go to to help make it happen NOW not later?

Jim Lobe | Has the "Tipping Point" on Iraq Been Reached?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905F.shtml
Has the US public lost so much confidence in the George W. Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war that its current strategy - to the extent one actually exists - is unsustainable? Lobe asks these questions and more.
Excerpt:
On Wednesday, however, Wisconsin Sen. Russell Feingold, a normally cautious lawmaker who is considering a presidential bid, broke ranks with other likely candidates, including Sens. Hillary Clinton and Joseph Biden, by calling for the withdrawal of all US troops from Iraq by the end of 2006 and calling his party colleagues "too timid" in challenging Bush on the issue.

{{{ If Feingold has his ducks in a row and favors personal autonomy for women, leaves Social Security alone, reforms Medicare to where it makes sense, etc., his call for the troops to come home by the end of next year would give him an edge on my willingness to vote for him for president in '08 if he can pull it off (without pResNitwit sending the troops back again in '07 and toying with bringing them home again in '08 in time for the presidential election).... Feingold is absolutely correct that too many Dems are "too timid" to challenge Bu$h since they've rolled over on their backs like timid puppies since 9/11 and given Bu$h everything he's demanded.... Like Cindy Sheehan, I want the troops home ASAP, no waiting...! Too many people on all sides have been killed already and it's time for all of that to stop...!}}}

No-Win War
By Charley Reese
I heard a lecture by an Army psychologist who contended that after 90 days of combat, the casualty rate was 98 percent. Those not wounded physically were wounded psychologically. The other 2 percent were psychopaths.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9870.htm

Court Rules US Need Not Pay for Abortion of Doomed Fetus
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/081905HB.shtml
While suggesting that its decision might seem "callous and unfeeling," a federal appeals court here ruled Thursday that the Navy need not pay for an abortion received by a sailor's wife, even though doctors said the fetus had a birth defect and could not survive.

Roberts Opposed Sex-Discrimination Remedies
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/081905WA.shtml
US Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts Jr. criticized some remedies for sexual discrimination and disputed a high court standard used to overturn laws that treat women differently, memos he wrote in the 1980s show.

{{{ This article is a "must read" - and the #1 reason Roberts should NOT be approved for the Supreme Court!!! Bu$h has WAY too much power now, as is, thanks to Congress who refuses to rein him in and put him in his place....}}}

Chris Floyd: Roberts Voted to Give Bush Dictatorial Powers
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9873.htm
Excerpt:
One of the kowtowing jurists on the appeals panel was none other than John G. Roberts. Four days after he affirmed Bush's autocratic powers, Roberts was duly awarded with a nomination to the Supreme Court. Now he will be sitting in final judgment on this case - and any other challenges to Bush's peremptory commands. This is what is known, in the tyrant trade, as "a safe pair of hands."

Drastic Tax Break Gives Billions to US Firms
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905I.shtml
A measure designed to create jobs is instead rewarding the companies that are most adept at stashing overseas profits in tax havens, allowing them to bring money home at a severely discounted tax rate.

Jury: Merck Negligent
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905T.shtml
Merck has been held liable by a Texas jury in the first lawsuit involving its former blockbuster drug Vioxx, in a case that could have a profound effect on thousands of other cases filed against the company. The jury awarded more than $250 million in total damages.

Vicki Wolf | Global Chemical Contamination Threatens Child Development
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/081905HA.shtml
Concern is growing worldwide over the long-term health effects of chemicals known as persistent organic pollutants (POPs). Exposure to POPs is shifting the IQ of the population downward - more developmentally-challenged people and fewer gifted people, according to Lynn Goldman, MD, MPH, Johns Hopkins University pediatrician and epidemiologist.

{{{ In addition to this, last night's NOW on PBS had most of the show devoted to chemical pesticides affecting children and adults near schools, day care centers, homes in one area of CA....}}}

Crawford Vigil Is Not Over:
Exclusive Interview with Cindy Sheehan After Mother's Stroke: "I Want to Get Back As Soon As Possible"
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9875.htm

David Swanson | Bush Won't Answer Cindy, But Has to Answer Congress
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905B.shtml
Swanson insists that if Casey Sheehan died for a noble cause, Bush can volunteer the documents that the Resolution of Inquiry will require him to produce. Not only has he not done so, but he has illegally refused to respond to a Freedom of Information Act request from 52 members of Congress asking for similar information.

Tony Norman | Whatever Happens, Cindy Sheehan Will Not be Moved
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0819-32.htm

Ray McGovern | There is Such a Thing as “Too Late”
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0819-33.htm
{{{ The title of McGovern's piece is misleading; the article is about Sheehan.}}}

Pro-war folks' attacks show desperation :
The rapidly dwindling minority of Americans who continue to search for some rationale for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq have been driven to the brink of breakdown by the success of Sheehan's protest.
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/index.php?ntid=50925&ntpid=1

Pope Seeks Immunity in Texas Abuse Case
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081905S.shtml
The lawyer who is suing Pope Benedict XVI in Texas for allegedly covering up the sexual abuse of children by a seminarian said Wednesday he would challenge the US diplomatic recognition of the Vatican if the pope is given immunity in the case.

Strike For Peace
Petition For Peaceful Priorities
Sponsors of this action include. Noam Chomsky, Medea Benjamin, Franklin W. Stahl, Peter Phillips Ph.D., Scott Kerlin Ph.D.…and hundreds more
In honoring our Founding principles, I must proclaim that to exploit the fears and prejudices of the common people to maintain the flow of profits from conflict—to perpetuate a state of war for personal gain—is treasonous to our creed.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9868.htm

My view -- and I may be the only one here with this view -- about supporting "progressive" candidates...

Are we defining "progressive" to mean just the Democrats? Does that mean that Republicans never have progressive view points?

For most of the elections in my voting life, I have researched the candidates running for a particular office and have done my best to choose the one who I felt was right for the job, regardless of party affiliation. I do believe that there are some Republicans who would be better suited for some offices in some cases. And I think that my duty an American voter is to judge each case and to make that choice.

If I'm in the wrong place to voice those opinions and back those candidates, tell me and I'll go away.

You are in the RIGHT place!

Progressives come in all sizes...and colors.

(I grew up in New York State, when Nelson Rockefeller was building infrastructure, thinking about aesthetics, and having a good old time...Now THERE was a fun-loving pol after my heart!)

Posted by: Amy at August 20, 2005 02:09 AM

Madame,

Of course you are not wrong. I would also suggest that we have to look beyond the two parties for those people who might be the best suited for an elected government position. However, those individuals, I believe would best serve themselves if they aligned with one of the major parties. The two party system for better or worse has become the defacto arrangement for this country.

Madame,

My view about supporting progressive candidates is supporting either Democrats or Republicans who care about the issues I care about. Like National Healthcare, Jobs in America, Election reform, Media de-consolidation, ending the war, responsible budgeting, and maintaining ethics.

A crooked Democrat is no better than a crooked Republican.

And as I've said in the past, there is no "perfect" candidate who will agree with me 100% so I recognise I will have to give up some of what I want in order to have the other things that I consider a priority.

And what I detest most of all, is just party-line voting, when ethics, corruption, and democracy is at stake.

I voted for Joe Shwartz (Mi. Republican) even though he was a Republican because he said he was a moderate and some of his issues appeared inline with my beliefs. BUT now that he's in DC he's voting with the neocons! I hate that he refuses to take a stand in the way he promised he would. I would feel that way against Democrats too. (I have a very specific issue right now with Debbie Stabenaw (Mi-Dem) and may not vote for her in her next election.

Thanks for clarifying that. It has been bothering me for awhile as I read the blog and I felt that I should give my open disclosure statement.

Here's an opinion in NYT that may be effective in discussing the Iraqi War with those who vote with their wallets...

(Again, I've posted it in its entirety because out -of-context paragraphs would change the meaning.)

The Trillion-Dollar War

The human cost of the more than 2,000 American military personnel killed and 14,500 wounded so far in Iraq and Afghanistan is all too apparent. But the financial toll is still largely hidden from public view and, like the suffering of those who have lost loved ones, will persist long after the fighting is over.

The cost goes well beyond the more than $250 billion already spent on military operations and reconstruction. Basic running costs of the current conflicts are $6 billion a month - a figure that reflects the Pentagon's unprecedented reliance on expensive private contractors. Other factors keeping costs high include inducements for recruits and for military personnel serving second and third deployments, extra pay for reservists and members of the National Guard, as well as more than $2 billion a year in additional foreign aid to Jordan, Pakistan, Turkey and others to reward their cooperation in Iraq and Afghanistan. The bill for repairing and replacing military hardware is $20 billion a year, according to figures from the Congressional Budget Office.

But the biggest long-term costs are disability and health payments for returning troops, which will be incurred even if hostilities were to stop tomorrow. The United States currently pays more than $2 billion in disability claims per year for 159,000 veterans of the 1991 gulf war, even though that conflict lasted only five weeks, with 148 dead and 467 wounded. Even assuming that the 525,000 American troops who have so far served in Iraq and Afghanistan will require treatment only on the same scale as their predecessors from the gulf war, these payments are likely to run at $7 billion a year for the next 45 years.

All of this spending will need to be financed by adding to the federal debt. Extra interest payments will total $200 billion or more even if the borrowing is repaid quickly. Conflict in the Middle East has also played a part in doubling the price of oil from $30 a barrel just prior to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 to $60 a barrel today. Each $5 increase in the price of oil reduces our national income by about $17 billion a year.

Even by this simple yardstick, if the American military presence in the region lasts another five years, the total outlay for the war could stretch to more than $1.3 trillion, or $11,300 for every household in the United States.

http://tinyurl.com/8unxd
Follow link to see chart for "total outlay for war"

And speaking of what's in your wallet -- or rather, what's not in your wallet -- the cost of gas in my area is now over $3/gallon.

Totally OT but very important, nonetheless... Karen, this one's for you (& me & dwahzon & all chocolate lovers):

Research promising for chocolate lovers

--snip--
The health potential is real. Cocoa beans have natural compounds called flavanols, and a growing pile of scientific research suggests they do good things to blood vessels.

Customers at Neuhaus, a Belgian chocolate shop in Washington's Union Station, like thinking the dark stuff might be healthy, said manager Clementine Loeman.

*****

Karen, get thee to Union Station immediately. You won't be sorry, I promise. Neuhaus makes THE best chocolate in the world. No "butts" about it...

on my way.......................

Posted by: madame defarge at August 20, 2005 10:52 AM

Madame,

I've heard dark chocolate is good for getting anti-oxidents.

and get some chocolate for me too karen while you're on your way!

Posted by: sparrow at August 20, 2005 10:17 AM

Oh...and add Civil Rights to that list of issues I care about.

Chocolate, good for you?
Wow, it really is upside world.

Delicious way to end a thread.

"So Toolmaker, what would you say to those who say, and while we're at it, let's take down the World Bank and several other institutions that have no business being in business?"

In the context of Iraq the world bank plays no role. The United States Embarked upon a geopolitical agenda based on PNAC doctrines writen by the same people now making decisions in the white house.
The world bank did not underwrite the invasion of Iraq, The US government did.

Outside the Context of Iraq, the World bank could play a great role in lifting the worlds impoverished. Terrorism is fed by poverty and hopelessness, not politics or religion.
Micro credit programs the World bank supports have the greatest bang for the buck in reducing poverty and giving people hope for a better life. The repayment ratio is 97% for this program, and the effect it has on local areas cannot be overstated, IT WORKS, and has a 25 years track record of proof.

The world bank is shipping thousands of tons of rice to Niger as you are reading this, because everyone else is too busy bombing and shooting each other to actually feed those that have nothing to eat.
When people stop playing world leader and actually lead, we wont need the UN and World Bank any longer.

The world bank needs housecleaning, as does the UN, as does our White House.

Lets think about this, we are going to stop terrorism by invading another nation and torturing their people, bombing them with napalm and phosphorous, reducing their infrastructure to rubble.....And have absolutely no strategy to rebuild their country and leave them with more stability than before we invaded...This was the Battle Plan the White House came up with?
This is bush league ( pun intended) politics.