Vote with Conviction

Sorry, Polly to change the subject, but THIS is pathetic! (But also a warning to our DEAR FRIENDS and PEACEMAKERS to beware out there!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4475931

This is priceless. These idiots have been around for a while. They show up at protests posing as liberals with outrageous signs, which you can see at their site - here:

http://www.protestwarrior.com /

They're like the evil twin of Billionaires for Bush. But the Pro-War protestors in Crawford didn't get the joke and physically attacked them! Ha ha ha!

I saw it in Reuters & I suspected it was them - checked their site and lo and behold!

______________________________________________

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050827/pl...

Across town in Crawford, other parents of soldiers who are serving or have died in Iraq countered Sheehan with their own raucous rally that started with a prayer.

Organizer Howard Kaloogian accused Sheehan of "giving hope and encouragement to our enemies."

The crowd, which organizers said topped 3,000 but appeared closer to 1,500, chanted "Cindy, Go Home" and compared her to Jane Fonda, whose visit to a North Vietnamese gun site in 1972 earned her the nickname "Hanoi Jane."

"Cindy=Hanoi Jane," read one of the signs at the rally.

In one heated moment, members of the pro-Bush crowd turned on what they mistakenly thought were a group of anti-war protesters, cursing them, threatening them and tearing down their signs. A police officer rushed the group to safety.

______________________________________________

http://forum.protestwarrior.com/viewtopic.php?t=96393

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:07 pm Reply with quote
DonShockleyOnline
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Total posts: 8
Location: Belton, TX
Gender: Unknown

Just got back from Crawford. A Protest Warrior almost got his clocked cleaned by the Pro-Bush crowd. Had the LOOOONG "Bush is a Dictator" sign. A guy tackled him and his sign before reading it all the way through. I just had time to recognize it as a Protest Warrior sign and only got through "...Dictator" before he was down. Remember, these signs are made for sneaking up on liberals and can be misinterpreted by those unfamiliar with the Protest Warriors. Fortunately, some people familiar with Protest Warrior explained everything and the tackler and the tacklee were laughing about it minutes later. Of course the cameras were all over it when they thought a peace protester was getting his due but disappeared when the facts were known. It will probably still make the news as an attack on the Pro-Cindy crowd anyway.

______________________________________________

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1073887&CMP=OTC-R...

At the pro-Bush rally several miles away, there were some heated moments when two members of Protest Warrior, a group that frequently holds counter protests to anti-war rallies, walked in with a sign that read "Say No to War Unless a Democrat is President."

Many Bush supporters only saw the top of the sign and believed the men were war protesters, so they began shouting and chasing the pair out. One man tore up their signs. When Will Marean of Minneapolis kept repeating that he was on the Bush side and tried to explain Protest Warrior's mission, one Bush supporter shook his hand and apologized.

______________________________________________

*edit to add the last story from ABC - Oh lord those Freepers are STUPID! LOL!

*edit! On re-reading, it looks like it happened more than once! One sign about a Dictator, and another reading No War Unless a Democrat is President.

Turn off your tv. Stay away from MSM. They're not giving you the real story here at Camp Casey 2 where it's peaceful. Some pro-Georgie's are driving by, trying to engage us in banter, but we're here for peace.

Jesse is singing "Sons & Daughters" right now...the song Indy told us about earlier in the week (and some of us listened to online). "How 'bout your son? How 'bout your daughter? How come it's always poor folk who get shuffled off to slaughter?"

We're safe. We're all in this together. And this is the beginning of the end of the war.

Indy
You know I haven't watched tv since 1991 Gulf War & don't intend to.

As for the Protest Warriors, dissent is not in their nature & everything they do is derivative.
It's silly for W to speak about freedom, liberty, democracy let alone to expect any sort of creativity or originality from his followers.

We had Protest Warriors in Seattle around the time of the last election & they were pathetic. They are student age but also cannon fodder age but most will never go. Too busy wasting Daddy's money & having frat keggers.

People who call themselves "pro-war" are also "anti-peace"! & "MoveForward" should more properly be called "MoveBackInTime"

not my president,

"movebackintime"?

Is that sort of like waltzing or doing the doe-ce-doe?

Or maybe it's just like the bunny-hop. (One step forward, two steps back?)

Posted by: Indy & madame defarge together in peace at August 27, 2005 07:28 PM

Hey you two...Look what I just found:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/2276

Sparrow

It's like "Devo" - de-evolution, evolving backward instead of forward toward improvement and survival.

or like "retro" - or like "reactionary"

longing for old days that never really were and never will be

Unrealistic, out of touch

There will not be a time in the future where rich white males control the world. They just can't accept it so this is the last gasp.

aka "regressives" and beyond conservatism because conservatives at least conserve. These don't. They're radical and extremist but going in completely the wrong direction. Back to the Stone Age. What is the fundamentalist Christian equivalent of Shariah law?

There is a BIG thunder storm headed this way...about 15 minutes away...a welcome relief from the heat, but we will have to turn off the wi-fi and unplug all computers.

We'll be back...and yes that is a threat...not jsut a promise. =]

Indy and Madam

Interesting point not my president.

But I look at these "neoCONS" and they're not uneducated. They're not naive. So why is it they believe what they do? Does it boil down to greed?

Indy and madame,

Stay dry!

Sparrow:

My brother is one of those well educated, non-naive neocons, and often I think it is just greed. Money is everything, and taking care of self is everything, and who cares about anyone outside the family unit/close friends. Little empathy for anyone who may not have the same priviledges. I wonder how we grew up in the same family!

The ones I really don't get are the folks who say they're for Bush for religious reasons. Somehow we've gotta get that kool-aid away from them, because I don't really see my brother's type ever changing.

Indy and Madame,

Thanks so much for the running report - you guys are the BEST!

Stay under the tent in case of lightning!

Sparrow
Some of the neocon ones around here, like on the east side where Bill Gates lives, are well educated and obviously greedy.

Then I think that some of the others who are not moneyed fall for some of the clever rhetoric, such as appealing to their patriotism or fears.

It's like one set doesn't care, the other set doesn't get it. Also I think the former set is "using" the latter set, may know it, and if so, doesn't care.

You can read 3000 year old Buddhist scriptures about compassion and greed and can't really tell they aren't written today.

Abu Ghraib jail release fails to swing Sunnis behind constitution
Ali Rifat, Baghdad and Tom Walker



THE head of the Iraqi parliament, Hajim al-Hassani, announced yesterday that the majority Shi’ite and Kurdish factions had agreed on the wording of a new “compromise constitution” which they believed had been amended sufficiently to appease the Sunni minority.
However, Sunni politicians submitted counterproposals, in a move that threatens to prolong Iraq’s political deadlock. Their intransigence raises the possibility that the document will be rejected in a national referendum on October 15.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1753522,00.html

Bush warns of more sacrifice in Iraq, protesters rally
Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:09 PM ET
Printer Friendly | Email Article | Reprints | RSS (Page 1 of 2)

Top News
Hurricane Katrina aims for U.S. Gulf Coast

Iraq constitution talks reach showdown -- again

Governors vow to fight Air National Guard cuts

MORE

By Jeremy Pelofsky and Adam Entous
CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - Thousands of Iraq war supporters and protesters staged competing rallies near President George W. Bush's Texas ranch on Saturday as he warned Americans to brace for more sacrifice in Iraq.

With almost 1,900 U.S. troops killed in the Iraq war, Bush's job approval rating has plummeted to new lows. He is under increasing pressure from critics to finish training a new Iraqi security force and bring the soldiers home.

But in his weekly radio address, Bush acknowledged there was more work ahead for American soldiers in Iraq.

"Our efforts in Iraq and the broader Middle East will require more time, more sacrifice and continued resolve," said Bush, who has spent most of August on vacation at his 1,600- acre (648-hectare) ranch.

Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq last year and has camped outside Bush's ranch seeking a second meeting with him to press for the withdrawal of troops, said her efforts would ultimately lead to the end of the war in Iraq.

http://olympics.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=...

I heard today on NPR's Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, that today Bush broke the presidential vacation record - a record set by Reagan after 8 Years - Bush has done it in a little more than half that time.

Carol,

We should just give him a permanent vacation. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Condiliar, Bolton, Wolfowictz, and Delay too.

Yep, it's time to give corruption a big long break--a permanent vacation!

Mideast Vacation
by Neil Young

I used to watch "Highway Patrol"
Whittlin' with my knife
But the thought never struck me
I'd be black and white for life
I was raised on law and order
I a community of strife
Became a restless boarder
And I never took a wife.

I went lookin' for Khaddafi
Aboard Air Force One
But I never did find him
And the C.I.A. said Son,
You'll never be a hero
Your flyin' days are done
It's time for you to go home now
Stop sniffin' that smokin' gun.

I was travellin' with my family
In the Mideast late one night
In the hotel all was quiet
The kids were out like little lights
Then the street was filled with jeeps
There was an explosion to the right
They chanted "Death to America"
I was feelin' like a fight.

So I ran downstairs
And out into the street
Someone kicked me in the belly
Someone else kissed my feet
I was Rambo in the disco
I was shootin' to the beat
When they burned me in effigy
My vacation was complete.

Global War on Terror, I mean, The Poor

The Salvadoran Soldier Who Died in Iraq

José Antonio, 6, and Marcos, 4, sleep on a dirt floor; their family has had no stable source of income since their older brother Tivito was killed last year in Iraq.

To the naked eye, the village of Tacuba, in western El Salvador, resembles any other isolated, poor Central American mountain village defined by timelessness and obscurity. Mangy dogs lounge lazily near rutted roads stirring only when a rare vehicle rumbles by, and only the roosters who crow at daybreak seem eager for another day of poverty and struggle to begin. The affairs of the outside world would appear to have little bearing here.

Yet this remote outpost near the Guatemalan border has not been isolated from President George W. Bush‚s war on terrorism. Having joined the United States-led „coalition of the willing,‰ El Salvador‚s president, Antonio Saca, has sent a force of 380 soldiers to fight in Iraq. Nearly 10 percent of them hail from the rural towns of Tacuba and Guaymango near Ahuachapan ˜ three hours by travel in rickety „chicken busses‰ west of the capital, San Salvador, and almost impossible to locate on my map without a microscope.

Even though Saddam Hussein never posed a threat to Central America, and the national security of the United States is a concern only to those Salvadorans lucky enough to survive the harrowing migratory journey to „El Norte,‰ some 35 local boys have fought side-by-side with the American armed forces near Najaf, north of Baghdad.

Truth,

Here's some links for you. Put them in your favs file.

http://www.capwiz.com/pdamerica/mail/

And here's the other media blaster, Truth.

Fav's it too!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cu/cu.php?az=blaster

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050827/ap_on_re_us/peace_mom
Dueling Demonstrators Descend on Texas
CRAWFORD, Texas - Several thousand people descended on President Bush's adopted hometown Saturday, most in a cross-country caravan for a pro-Bush rally and others to support an anti-war demonstration led by grieving mother Cindy Sheehan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Found this on Yahoo news, but I doubt the "several thousand" pro-war demonstrators. I remember a story on MSM that a CA group was to go to Crawford and a helicopter taking an aerial shot only showed something like three vehicles headed out for Crawford. I'd say a couple of dozen people from CA between one van-type vehicle and two cars that I saw on the video, since the helicopter video didn't pan out to show any other film of more cars in a caravan going to Crawford. Likely more pro-war people got to Crawford to the stadium the Yahoo article mentions, but I think MSM is stretching it to say "several thousand" - to make it seem like pResNitwit has more supporters than the less than 40% in the polls who support his war.

Indy or Madame (or any other regular bloggers in Crawford) - what is the genuine truth? I saw that you said there are about 2000 people at Camp Casey II....

Hugs to everyone who is physically where my heart is - with you....

Another cost of war--cut backs from our kids--the and another way to force them to enlist:

Lawmakers are drafting proposals that would cut billions of dollars from the growth of Medicaid, slice into student loans just as students return to college, pare back food stamps and trim farm price supports in the midst of a midwestern drought.

The raft of bills, due out of 16 committees in the House and Senate by Sept. 16, will present the Republican Party its toughest test of fiscal austerity in nearly a decade. For years, the party has embraced the rhetoric of small government while overseeing legislation that has helped boost federal spending by more than a third since the GOP took control of Congress 10 years ago. Now, Republican lawmakers will be faced with the tough votes needed to slow that growth and enact the first cuts in entitlement spending since 1997.
.....
"It's been off the radar screen, but I can assure you it will be front and center very soon," said Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

There lives more faith in honest doubt, believe

Posted by: NonnyO at August 27, 2005 11:02 PM

Numbers? Estimates at Camp Casey 2 = 2000 to 2500. There was a pro-war rally in a football stadium in Crawford today, but I have no idea how many people were there. Camp Casey 2 is on the outskirts of town. There were bunches of Bushies along the road at the main intersection of town and some cars of them driving by Camp Casey to harrass us. It didn't work. We will not be harrassed.

And we will not be silent anymore.

BTW, if I could guess how many Bushies we saw I would say it was about 100-200. Clearly nowhere near the numbers at Camp Casey 2.

I will say one thing about the Bushies: they seem so full of anger and hate. They shouted things out their cars to us as well as gave us the finger. We responded with silence and the peace sign.

P.S. Indy's still hanging at Camp Casey 2, weathering out the storm and listening to the great music, and no doubt contributing to the tunes.

Ken: "Randi Rhodes went to Crawford"
DiAnne: "She did? How do you know?"
Ken: "from her website"

Comments heard around Camp Casey 2 today...

"How many people do we have to kill before they [the world] stop hating us?"

"What difference will it make if we get out of Iraq today, or in one month, in 1 year, in 5 years..."

"She's [Cindy] is every soldier's mother." - an Iraqi Veteran for Peace

"Religious right...eat your hearts out!" - Joan Baez (who is absolutely an amazingly beautiful soul, singer, peace activist, human, woman...)

From Cindy:
"I know that the Camp Casey movement is going to end the war in Iraq."

In regards to the smear campaign from Faux et al: "Smear away, because we're not going away!"

"How many more are you willing to sacrifice before you say enough is enough? NOT ONE MORE!"

"For every one of you, there are 1000 more saying 'Not one more!'"

"Thank you for drinking the smart kool-aid."

"Why are we allowing them to continue [with the war]... This is America and we've had enough!"

"When is America going to care? Thank you for caring!"

Numbers of Bushies? Remember - they're locals & can be rallied. They're like what we real hippies used to call "Saturday night sandal wearers." They won't camp out anywhere - they are "weekend warriors" only - wimps, wannabees. They were probably rallied round by some local extremist churches or something. It's a one-off. Their type do not "question authority" - it isn't in their worldview as they like to be told what to think.

madame:

Thanks for sharing - we all wish we'd been there too!

Posted by: not my president at August 27, 2005 11:57 PM

You're right. They did bus them in -- that is, those who didn't show up in their SUVs. But then, we had buses show up from Austin, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio...

I did hear a story about Brown County, Texas. They hired a bus for $1300 for 55 Bushies to come to Crawford today and offered tickets at $25/seat. Well, they only sold 8 seats and had to cancel the bus...Guess it's just not worth $25 to them to come stand up for their president.

NonnyO
Maybe they'll do the photoshop trick like that one conservative politician did where he pasted his own mug in front of multiple overlapped images of Howard Dean crowds. You can't pull counter-protestors out of a hat!! Counter-protesting is not something that motivates people. The Camp Casey crowd stands for something. These other people are merely reacting and deep in denial. I think they are trying to maintain some facade in their mind about what they think American is but never was. There just isn't substance to it, anymore than there is to the house-of-cards government. If it weren't for weapons makers & oil companies, none of this would be happening.

Hah! I love that story, Madame!

Posted by: DiAnne at August 27, 2005 11:50 PM

Randi Rhodes was at the Peace House all day, and then went out to Camp Casey 2 (just as the storm blew in). She's supposed to be back there tomorrow.

Brad from Bradblog has been broadcasting all day from the Peace House along with Laura Flanders. We sat in on the last 45 minutes of the show tonight.

BTW, I cannot say enough about the well this community of caring humans worked together today to achieve whatever needed doing...

From the moment you arrived, you were greeted with a smile and a friendly welcome. Everyone chipped in to do whatever needed doing --
handing out water/wet bandanas to those in the sun, unloading ice from trucks (a coveted job in this heat!), holding banners alongside the road, cooking/serving food, picking up trash, batoning down the hatches as the storm rolled in... I could go on and on. All these jobs were graciously done by people who just wanted to do their part. And not once did I hear a voice raised in anger. This is what a peaceful society looks like.

Cool pictures here:

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/images/prodeath/index.htm

Madam (I'm afraid to mispell your name again!)
I wish we were all there but we are in spirit!

http://www.michaelmoore.com//

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4476404

Dianne and madame and Indy and NT4K,

Me too.

Posted by: DiAnne at August 28, 2005 12:24 AM

Madam or madame...depends whether I'm being a blog ho' or a crazy old lady waiting for the revolution with her knitting needles...

Posted by: sparrow at August 28, 2005 12:23 AM

I've got loads of photos to post when I get home, many of similar scenes as those.

That gentleman in the first photos is Russell Means, an Native American who told us about some of his folklores... Here's a bit of what he had to say...

"My folklore has an expression about fire and flame. When you make a flame in the traditional way [by rubbing two rocks together]...sometimes when we spark the rock, it happens the first time. Sometimes it takes many sparks. Cindy - she is the spark that lit the flame..."

"My culture is a matriarch. In my culture, we know you can never replace a mother, and I mean never...When the women take the lead, it is filled with love."

"No mother anywhere on earth wants to see her son walk to war."

You can find more about him on his site www.russellmeans.com.

OK, now I'm really pissed off... Just caught the CNN news and they said something insinuating that there were "thousands" of Bush supporters and "hundreds" of Sheehan supporters.

Let me set the record straight here and now! That is an absolute lie. They only showed Camp Casey 1, where there were a handful of supporters for both sides. As we have said all day, Camp Casey 2 had at least 2000 people there. That's a fact.

This is why we must be the media.

Madame
Wow - Russell Means! We're originally from South Dakota & my husband Ken is from Mission, South Dakota, grew up around Russell Means. This is incredible! Cool! I'm part Lakota Sioux.

The first duty of a true patriot is to question authority; the first responsibility of a patriot is to be a good neighbor. I have heard the refrain "this is a wake up call for America" from many Americans from all over this country, so I ask those good Americans, who is responsible for putting us in harm's way? It is the policies of our past and present leadership of the United States of America.

We can no longer be a country in denial and continue to live in the fantasyland of America, right or wrong. We must accept the fact our military continues to kill men, women and children and are now planning to do it again.

Americans,what are you going to do?

Russell Means
September 30, 2001

Good morning from Wacko...

Getting ready to head back to the Peace House & Camp Casey 2 for the non-denominational service.

Just thought I'd mention that one of the reasons Camp Casey works so well: mothers...it's mostly run by mothers. It was started by a mother and many more showed up to support her. That's not to diminish the role that the men are playing; they're absolutely critical & essential to the success too. But I'll bet it's the moms who thought of things like anti-bacterial lotion & toilet paper...

Posted by: DiAnne at August 28, 2005 01:48 AM

Yes, he's a very wise soul indeed...

Posted by: madame defarge in wacko, texas at August 27, 2005 11:36 PM
Posted by: madame defarge in wacko, texas at August 27, 2005 11:43 PM
Posted by: madame defarge in wacko, texas at August 28, 2005 12:52 AM
Posted by: madame defarge in wacko, texas at August 28, 2005 12:56 AM

THANK YOU, MADAME!!! And, THANK YOU, Indy, and the rest of you in Camp Casey I & II~ !!! I knew those numbers had to be inflated by a lazy media "corpse" who didn't bother to find out for themselves how many were in Crawford to support Bu$h's war. (I saw another figure of 3000 in a different article later, but I don't believe that number either - not after seeing the pro-war faction "support" in a photo where two or three empty chairs were set up last week, no people pictured, and the "convoy" of about three vehicles leaving CA to protest against Cindy Sheehan, our heroine. I suspect there are only 'hundreds' of pro-war-pro-Bu$h supporters (if that), and even if they do a PhotoShop layered image of them, I won't believe there are more than a few hundred war supporters unless someone from one of the Camps Casey actually photographs and counts them one by one.

What I ADMIRE about you at Camp Casey I & II is that you are living up to the BEST IDEALS of everything that is/was good about America. You are PEACEFULLY gathering to protest the gravest injustices that can happen to a nation - the list of those injustices are indelibly engraved on our brains since 2000 ~ particularly the LIES used to "justify" the deaths of so many people from both sides of the Atlantic. PEACEFUL protests ultimately ended the Viet Nam war, and my fervent hope is that those same kind of peace protests will end this insanity in Iraq, and bring the Bu$hCo administration to its knees.

Dem candidates for '06 and '08 need to heed the fact that polls and real people are adamantly against Bu$h's war and want our troops home - like NOW, not only in time for the '06 and/or '08 election - since they'll undoubtedly only be bringing home the number they're now increasing the troop strength by for the moment in both Iraq and Afghanistan, so there won't be any truthful 'reduction' in troop strength! pResNitwit did say in his Idaho speech that the US military presence would be in Iraq through his reign, after all, so I do expect he'll keep the military there - (and more people - our own and Iraqi innocents - dying) - through Jan. '09, unfortunately. I wish the Iraqi people knew that 60% of Americans are adamantly against Bu$hCo's war, that many of us knew he was lying from the beginning, that we regret the loss of innocent Iraqi lives, too.

I ADMIRE the fact that you are not responding to the hatred spewing from people shouting or gesturing from vehicle windows, but are staying silent and PEACEFULLY letting them know of your presence and your purpose. It takes real courage not to respond in kind to that much hatred, real courage not to get down on their level. It takes real courage to cheerfully help your fellow human beings with each and every necessary task, however menial - and care for animals with you, since they also need to be fed and watered and cared for, too (I'm thinking of Lokken here, since I know Indy loves and cares for Lokken, and I'm sure others with you who have pets are caring for them as well and making sure they have all the water they need in the heat). You are the living example of good neighbors who pitch in to help your neighbors without expecting favors in return for your good deeds.

My heart is bursting with PRIDE about all of you who are PEACEFULLY protesting the insanity in Iraq in every small and large way possible!!! I'm so fortunate to know such wonderful people!!! :-)

P.S. From the weather forecast, rain is expected in TX today where you are, and Hurricane Katrina is headed for an area to come ashore between western Louisiana or the panhandles of Mississippi or Alabama, with New Orleans right in the center of that predicted area, and the hurricane is increasing in intensity - and I know rain and winds from hurricanes make it inland for hundreds of miles. Please, please, please stay safe and away from near-hurricane-force winds and rain. It's not a matter of giving up your peace vigil, just a matter of moving to a safe place so you can all resume your peaceful protests another day with your health intact. That goes for Cindy and all the rest of you at Camp Casey I & II.... Be safe....

Just thought I'd mention that one of the reasons Camp Casey works so well: mothers...

Posted by: madame defarge at August 28, 2005 08:25 AM

I guess you know what that makes Bushies against mothers.

Anyone?

Madame and Indy,

I have limited access to the web this weekend. Thanks to both of you for your captivating descriptions of what is happening in Crawford. I have had an opportunity to watch some Bushco Propaganda, but I said to myself, "I will get the truth from Indy and Madame."

I have come to the conclusion (probably later than most of you) that this whole disaster is playing out the way Bushco originally intended . We were never intended to leave Iraq in less than twenty years. Our government was supposed to create an eternal enemy among Muslim nations in order to foster the next generational development of the military industrial complex. All of this is designed to improve the bottom line of companies lke General Electric (the same company that owns NBC). Damned are the innocent young Americans who volunteer for the Armed Forces. They truly are cannon fodder.

Indy and Madame it is your witness to truth and humanity that will empower us to say "no" as we show others what this grand lie has done to America.

By the way, has anybody heard anything lately from the parents of the NFL football player who was killed by his own troops in Afghanistan? His name escapes me. I am curious to know where they stand in this national debate.

Posted by: monkey at August 28, 2005 09:33 AM

Yup, it does make Bushies against mothers - and grandmothers and daughters and aunts and nieces women in general (unless they glorify NitWit like a demi-god because in his delusions he fancies he knew his god wanted him to be pResident, even if he arrived at his office by SCOTUS selection and/or e-voting machines that were fixed to come out in his favor)...

. . . Which also means he does not honor or respect the very people who gave birth to the men and women in the US military who have been killed to defend and protect the oil fields in Iraq so that he can enrich himself and his cronies, nor does he honor or respect the mothers of the ones still living who are indirectly serving his god of money and power and greed to keep their oil wells in Iraq safe from the residents of that country who supposedly still own those oil wells. He'd rather honor and respect the corporations who put him in power with their money.... Now ain't that the height of gratitude?!? [Dripping Sarcasm graphic belongs here....}

But we already knew that, didn't we?

Oncall:
Controversy
A report released on May 4, 2005 (prepared upon the request of Tillman's family) by Brig. Gen. Gary M. Jones revealed that in the days immediately following Tillman's death, U.S. Army investigators were aware that Tillman was killed by friendly fire. Jones reported that senior Army commenders, including Gen. John Abizaid, knew of this fact within days of the shooting, but approved the awarding of the Silver Star, Purple Heart, and posthumous promotion - which were awarded on the basis of a citation report that said that Tillman was killed by enemy forces and containing a detailed account of the alleged battle (which the Army knew had never taken place).

Jones' report contended that members of Tillman's unit burned his body armor and uniform in an attempt to hide the fact that he was killed by friendly fire. Several soldiers were subsequently punished for their actions by being removed from their Ranger unit. [3] Jones believed that Tillman should retain his medals and promotion, since he intended to engage the enemy, and behaved heroically. [4]

Tillman's family was not informed of the finding that he was killed by friendly fire until weeks after his memorial service, despite the Army's knowledge of that fact within days of his death. [5] Tillman's parents have sharply criticized the Army's handling of the incident; they charge that the Army was more concerned about protecting its image and its recruiting efforts than about telling the truth. [6] His mother, Mary Tillman, told the Washington Post:

The fact that he was the ultimate team player and he watched his own men kill him is absolutely heartbreaking and tragic. The fact that they lied about it afterward is disgusting.
Tillman's father Patrick Tillman Sr., was incensed by the coverup of the cause of his son's death, which he attributed to a conscious decision by the leadership of the U.S. Army to protect the Army's image:

After it happened, all the people in positions of authority went out of their way to script this. They purposely interfered with the investigation, they covered it up. I think they thought they could control it, and they realized that their recruiting efforts were going to go to hell in a handbasket if the truth about his death got out. They blew up their poster boy," [7]
He also blamed high-ranking Army officers for presenting "outright lies" to the family and to the public. [8]

Later, Tillman's father suggested in a letter to the Washington Post that the Army hierarchy's purported mistakes were part of a pattern of conscious misconduct:

With respect to the Army's reference to 'mistakes in reporting the circumstances of [my son's] death': those 'mistakes' were deliberate, calculated, ordered (repeatedly) and disgraceful -- conduct well beneath the standard to which every soldier in the field is held." [9]
He also alleged that the soldiers who had burned Tillman's body armor had done so on the direct orders of their superiors. [10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

http://www.pattillmanfoundation.net/

http://www.pattillmanfoundation.net/get-involved/wristbands.php

Damned are the innocent young Americans who volunteer for the Armed Forces. They truly are cannon fodder.
Posted by: oncall at August 28, 2005 10:11 AM

And, don't forget the foreign (and domestic) mercenaries - all are paid from the US treasury.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

George Bush's Soldiers Of Fortune:
With no public debate, to compensate for inadequate troop strength in Iraq, the Bush Administration has contracted with tens of thousands of mercenaries, who operate outside U.S. control and undermine military morale.
http://snipurl.com/h8wa
Excerpts (more on link):
The DOD “private security” contracts run into unknown billions of dollars. The companies are cleared by DOD to stockpile weapons. The companies recruit largely from the ranks of ex-military. They pay their American employees $400 to $700 per day. Many of the soldiers hail from third-world countries (and are paid considerably less). The soldiers interviewed by the Times make no bones about it: they are in Iraq for a hefty payday.
. . . . . . . . . .
How did the policy to use mercenary forces develop? In preparing its article, the Times failed in repeated efforts to obtain an explanation from DOD. One thing though is clear: despite being a departure from established U.S. military policy, the mercenary policy was not subject to any type of public debate. There was no Congressional authorization, nor even an Executive Order. Incredibly, as far as the public knows, the policy just happened.

The Fire Sermon
By Chris Floyd
The death of her son drove Sheehan to throw off the torpor that has afflicted so many of her compatriots for so many years and look reality in the face. There she has seen Iraqi civilians and American soldiers being shredded, gutted and burned alive by the fire of Bush's death-dealing lies.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9995.htm

Medea Benjamin and Gayle Brandeis | Mother's Day in Crawford
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0826-21.htm
{{{ BEAUTIFUL poem by Julia Ward Howe is quoted in this article...!!! I don't know if it's the poem in full, but maybe Casey would like to search out the full poem, the full story behind it, and use that for a thread header??? }}}

And What Did They Die For Once Again?:
This may come as something of a shock to some of those yahoos down in Crawford, Texas, who are so upset with antiwar Gold Star mother Cindy Sheehan's vigil outside the president's Godforsaken ranch, but if they were to look real close they'd discover she is committing first-degree, premeditated citizenship.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9996.htm

David Rossie | Peaceful Siege Makes Chicken Hawks Squawk
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0826-28.htm

Why U.S. Military Lawyers Opposed Torture:
Extraordinary renditions, torture, abuse, humiliation, detention without charge or end, an obsession with protecting American officials (and military men) from future foreign or domestic criminal charges for their acts -- these are the cornerstones of foreign policy under George Bush, and they have produced horror stories galore.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=16843

American Legion Declares War on Protestors -- Media Next? :
Speaking at its national convention in Honolulu, the group's national commander called for an end to all “public protests” and “media events” against the war.
http://snipurl.com/h7jy
{{{ Hmmmm.... Isn't the First Amendment one of the things the American Legion members fought for?!?!? Or is the First Amendment something they conveniently believe in only if it reflects their official views (as the Bu$h administration sees it)? Has the American Legion asked their individual members' opinions on the matter??? }}}

In Silence a Challenge to Patriot Act
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/082705Z.shtml
Highlighting concerns of civil rights groups, a lawsuit challenging the FBI's use of the USA Patriot Act filed by a member of the American Library Association is largely under wraps, the US public forbidden to know its details.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050828/ap_on_re_us/soldier_funeral_protests
Anti-Gay Church Protests at GI Funerals
SMYRNA, Tenn. - Members of a church say God is punishing American soldiers for defending a country that harbors gays, and they brought their anti-gay message to the funerals Saturday of two Tennessee soldiers killed in Iraq.
{{{ That crackpot Fred Phelps is at it again....}}}

Our Arrogance Will be the End of Us
By Christine Rose
She explained to me how she and her husband voted for Bush. She said they were conservative and watched Fox News regularly; however, something touched her in seeing and hearing everyday people from around the world talk about her beloved country as a bully; a hypocrite. Something touched her when faced with the sobering charge of War Crimes and the images of torture at the hands of Americans under orders from the US Government. Something touched her that day that made her think about what she thought she knew.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10008.htm

Bolton Brings US into Conflict with UK
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/082705A.shtml
Although John Bolton failed to win congressional approval, Mr. Bush's recess appointee to the UN has launched headlong into a confrontation with the member states that threatens to alienate even America's staunchest ally, Great Britain.

Galloway to go on anti-war tour of US with Jane Fonda :
Few things are more likely to antagonise US conservatives than the combination of Mr Galloway and Ms Fonda - still hated by the right because of her outspoken opposition to the war in Vietnam - joining to condemn the American presence in Iraq.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10003.htm

Rosa Brooks | Not Your Daddy's Creationists
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/082705H.shtml
Rosa Brooks is clearly not comfortable with what she sees as "the new moral relativism of the right," in its pursuit of creationism in the classroom.

Maureen Dowd | Bike-Deep in the Big Muddy
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/082705G.shtml
In this piece, Maureen Dowd quotes Gary Hart quoting an anti-Vietnam War song, "Waist-deep in the Big Muddy, and the big fool said to push on," to illustrate the futility of Mr. Bush's occupation of Iraq.

Experts Warn Debt May Threaten Economy

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5239016,00.html

You owe $145,000. That's how much it would cost every American man, woman and child to pay the tab for the long-term promises the U.S. government has made to creditors, retirees, veterans and the poor. It's not taking into account credit card bills, mortgages - debt we've racked up personally.

Economists, government officials and elected leaders, conservative and liberal warn that America's nonstop borrowing has put the nation on the road to a major fiscal disaster that could unleash plummeting home values, rocketing interest rates, lost jobs, stagnating wages and threats to government services ranging from health care to law enforcement.
(distilled to "facts" and nuggets by me)

- America spends $1.9 billion more a day on imported clothes and cars and gadgets than the entire rest of the world spends on its goods and services.

- Barely a third of Americans would cut spending to reduce the federal deficit and even fewer would raise taxes.

- Federal budget deficit hampers the nation's ability to absorb possible shocks from the soaring trade deficit and the housing boom.
(Greenspan)

-Savings have plummeted to 1.8 percent last year, below 1 percent since January and at zero in the latest estimate.

- In 2000, household debt broke 18 percent of disposable income for the first time in 20 years.

= Credit card debt averages $7,200 per household.

-A home translates into wealth only when you sell it - and there's debate over whether the housing boom is becoming a bubble that will burst.

-Echoes in the rise of obesity: a pervasive I-want-it-now attitude no matter what the consequences. Debt's a symptom of disease, and one that's spreading. The government is sick too.

-Leaders are elected by the people they serve and the American people seem to want the best of both worlds - tax cuts and government services - while they hope the dollars sort themselves out.

- AP/Ipsos poll of 1,000 adults taken July 5-7 found that 70 percent worried about the size of the federal deficit either ``some'' or ``a lot.''

- 35 percent were willing to cut government spending and experience a drop in services to balance the budget.

- 18 percent - were willing to raise taxes to keep current services.

- 1 percent wanted to both raise taxes and cut spending.

- The budget surplus of $236 billion in 2000 turned into a deficit of $412 billion last year. The government had to borrow that much to cover the hole between what it took in and what it had to spend; a difference that's called the federal deficit.

-Current debt and deficit, promises for Medicare/Medicard/Social Security, pensions, veterans health care. The total comes to $43 trillion. That's where the $145,000 bill for every American, or $350,000 for every full-time worker, comes from.

-``We're stealing from our children's future and our grandchildren's future,'' says cashier and mother of three who responded to the AP/Ipsos poll. ``We're led off on this belief that we should buy, buy, buy. Everyone needs a big house, everyone needs a new car every two years. We're spending all this money on that, and we're not saving anything.''

- Ben Bernanke, President Bush's top economic adviser, argued that the problem is not with the United States. The trouble lies overseas, where people want to save rather than spend their money. The key is to encourage other countries to spend and invest more. (huh?)

-The trade deficit - the difference between what America imports and what it exports - is the highest it's ever been, both in absolute numbers and in comparison to the size of the economy.

-Americans are on track this year to spend $680 billion more on foreign goods such as Chinese-made clothes, Japanese-made cars and Scandinavian cell phones than overseas buyers do on American goods.

-Two decades ago, the country fretted over a trade imbalance equal to 3.1 percent of the overall economy, or the gross domestic product. It's more than twice as big now, roughly 6.5 percent.

-Americans, who go into debt to keep living a life beyond their means, are spending more and more of that borrowed money to buy goods from overseas.

-Other nations actually purchase that debt, in the form of U.S. Treasury bonds and notes. Japanese investors hold the most U.S. debt, but China has been buying more than any other country.

- The biggest trade deficit is with China at $162 billion. Japan is next, at $75 billion.

-The U.S. economy is dependent on the central banks of Japan, China and other nations to invest in U.S. Treasuries and keep American interest rates down. The low rates here keep American consumers buying imported goods.

-The lack of fiscal discipline in the United States is undermining the value of the American dollar, lowering the value of the U.S. Treasuries in foreign banks. As the dollar's value drops, other nations' willingness to keep investing cannot last.

-If those banks reduced their dollar holdings or less willing to invest so much, it could spark a sharp fall in the value of the dollar.

-Economists and business leaders are watching China's decision to uncouple the value the yuan, from the dollar and tie it to a basket of currencies.

Disaster is still avoidable, but it's going to require the American people and the country's leaders to clean financial house - to reduce the federal deficit and the trade deficit.

If not:

- What if the dollar plummets? Do stocks follow? How about pensions?

- What if interest rates soar? How would all the new homeowners, who stretched to buy with adjustable and interest-only loans, cover their mortgages?

- How would consumers with record credit-card debt make their payments? Would they stop buying? Stop taking vacations? What will happen if they go bankrupt? New rules going into effect later this year make it harder on such debtors.

- How would government, which depends on the taxes of a strong economy to operate, keep all its promises?

-The worse debt becomes, the more vulnerable America is to shocks in the global economic systems - another spike in oil prices, another major terrorist attack, another major military conflict.

NOTICE THEY DON'T MENTION THE WAR?
NOTICE THE EXPENSES FOR THE WAR AREN'T IN THE NEW BUDGET NOR WERE THEY IN THE LAST 3 YEARS?
WHAT'S UP WITH THAT?

"But don't expect any of Mr. Feingold's peers to join him or Mr. Hagel in fashioning an exit strategy that might work. If there's a moment that could stand for the Democrats' irrelevance it came on July 14, the day Americans woke up to learn of the suicide bomber in Baghdad who killed as many as 27 people, nearly all of them children gathered around American troops. In Washington that day, the presumptive presidential candidate Hillary Clinton held a press conference vowing to protect American children from the fantasy violence of video games."

Frank Rich in this morning's NYTimes.

Great article, hope the Dems are paying attention. He says the Republicans are going to blink first because they are more forward thinking and already have their eye on '06.

The Vietnamization of Bush's Vacation

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/opinion/28rich.html?pagewanted=2&th&emc=th

Nonny, regarding the "foreign and domestic mercenaries" in Iraq - my friends in Europe tell me that the Americans don't count them in death counts, and that they buried them in mass graves in Falluja. Anyone know if this is true?

Are South Americans fighting for us in American military uniforms as insignificant as Iraqi civilians to us?

Brit correspondant does beautiful job in Texas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4187502.stm

nice to read - I will email him.

Posted by: Amy at August 28, 2005 11:35 AM

They are NOT wearing American military uniforms, as near as I can tell. The PBS Frontline piece I saw a few months ago showed them in their 'private security' uniforms or in ordinary civilian clothing, some mixed with camouflage material (in green - not the brown/beige camouflage fatigues now worn by US military in Iraq), but NOT American military uniforms. All, however, were armed, some are ex-military - US and otherwise (Columbia and El Salvador have been mentioned in recent articles in the last couple of weeks in e-newsletters from ICH and TO) - but the mercenaries have not even been trained in warfare, according to the Frontline show.

A few months ago a man from MN who worked for DynCorp (I got the spelling off of the TV station's web site and Googled it after they interviewed his widow) was killed in Iraq. I'd heard about these "private security firms" before in connection with the torture at Abu Ghraib a long time ago, but didn't know the name of any of the "private security" firms at that time since none were mentioned. I suspect some of the torture might be done by these "private security" people, but not all, so I'm sure the DOD would likely try to pin most of the torture at Abu Ghraib and Gitmo on the "private security" people and not regular enlisted personnel (another reason I want those videos and pictures released that haven't been yet - I want to see who's on them) - altho when regular enlisted personnel are pictured, they can't escape charges being brought against them. The people being tortured likely wouldn't know the difference between regular military and mercenaries from "private security firms" hired by DOD, I suspect. A torturer is a torturer, and what uniform (if any) they may or may not wear is irrelevant to the person being tortured. The mercenaries are being paid for by DOD via the US treasury in any case, wherever they're from or whichever company hired them (Halliburton is only the most conspicuous).

DynCorp, and KBR (Kellogg, Brown and Root) are Halliburton subsidiaries. Blackwell is another name mentioned from the Frontline show, but I don't remember with whom they are affiliated. There are also several mercenary (private security) companies with Asian ties who are in Iraq, according to Frontline and a couple of written pieces I've seen.

I have posted links to stories I've read about mercenaries on this blog site, as well as to the PBS Frontline show, but I don't remember the dates for any of them.

It's a source of fascination to me that no one in the US has made a fuss about the salary discrepancy between mercenaries (foreign mercenaries are paid about 1/3 less than US mercenaries) and regular salaries paid to US military personnel.... If there are an estimated (unverified) 25,000 mercenaries in Iraq - no one knows how many mercenaries there are in Iraq - (supposedly providing food and other services, as well as guarding Halliburton trucks), I wonder what the true number is, and how much of the DOD budget (taxpayer money) is paying for their services - guarding Halliburton interests in particular - at those outrageous salaries mentioned in the article?

Curiouser and curiouser.... When King George and Rummy can't find enough reserve and guard troops to supplement regular enlisted military personnel, they simply hire mercenaries from both the US and foreign countries....

Dear Polly,

Thank goodness you have found a way we can be guided from now thru election day '08. Goodness,
it was getting so confusing - like for instance, your example of John McCain. They slimed him in
2000, yet, as you noted, there he was campaigning for his slimer(s) in '04.

We know our current administrative leaders that align themselves with the President appear to all have lost their minds and been attacked by a terrible virus that causes schitzophrenia. When John McCain appeared to come down with it, I didn't know what to do. And, also as you say, when Democratic leaders show symptoms of it too, it does make one wonder what we can do to find honest politicians with one personality. I myself was most distressed to watch Joe Biden say harsh things about a couple of President Bush's appointees, then vote for their confirmation, anyhow.

Ouiji, Smeejee. Whose spirit is behind the Ouiji?
Grandma? Is that you???

(Really good article, Polly. Thank you!)

Brit correspondant does beautiful job in Texas:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/4187502.stm

nice to read - I will email him.

Posted by: not my president at August 28, 2005 11:51 AM

Excellent - thnx for posting this link.

Truth --

Thanks for the kind words... I live to serve:)

Great article, hope the Dems are paying attention. He says the Republicans are going to blink first because they are more forward thinking and already have their eye on '06.

The Vietnamization of Bush's Vacation

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/opinion/28rich.html?pagewanted=2&th&emc=th

Posted by: Amy at August 28, 2005 11:27 AM

I'm a Dem and I'm already working on a '06 Congressional campaign. What's Howard Dean been doing with his 50 State Strategy? What has Sen. Edwards been doing with his "Raising the States" initiative?

Don't believe every generalization you read from a pundit/columnist even if they are one of the best.