The Benedictine Purge Begins

Matthew,

I'm not Catholic so I'm not sure how much right I have to make a comment on this.

But I have many friends who are Catholic. They go to church; they have communions, and they follow the churches precepts--MOSTLY--but not all. And for many I know, the Pope means nothing to them. They use birthcontrol, the have 'relations' before marraige, and they seem no different from anyone else I know. These are the type of people who I know more of.

Yet, when I homeschooled, I knew the other type of Catholic: they went to church daily; they 'mostly' followed the Pope's instructions, they did not use birth control (some families I knew had 11 kids!), and they were anti-abortion and were DEEPLY concerned about the pediphilia in the Catholic church. During my 6 years with this group, I NEVER EVER heard anti-gay comments from them. Yes, they were anti-choice. Yes, they supported Bush's war and truly believed his 26 different reasons for going to war, and yes, they believed more "faith" belonged in government. BUT, they did not say, "more Christianity belonged in government." They said, "Faith and good works." Yet, I suspect these people are probably still Bush's base. (I haven't seen them in 3 years, so I'm not sure.)

At anyrate, to sum up my comment...I'm just trying to say that the Pope doesn't speak for all American Catholics and that maybe it is an issue within the American Catholic church how much power they are willing to let the Pope have over them.

I'm not sure it's fair for me to say.

Sparrow,

The problem is that the Vatican wants more control over American Catholics. They're ticked that so many Catholics (which, for the record, I stopped calling myself nearly twenty years ago) simply ignore so many of their "teachings". I've heard stories quite recently of Priests announcing at Weddings or other functions that only those Catholics who "were in good standing with the church" should feel free to partake in the sacrament of communion.

That was the point of those Bishops attempting to deny communion to Kerry - that, and swinging the Catholic vote to Bush. Now Benedict XVI is looking to purge anyone with a different opinion than his - like Thomas Reese, the former editor of America Magazine, a Catholic publication. Reese was guilty of the mortal sin of allowing opposing viewpoints in his publication.

I'm arguing that this authoritarian approach is ultimately incompatible with democracy, and needs to be challenged by both Catholics and Americans who are simply concerned about: 1) unjust discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation; 2) the specter of foreign interference in our political life.

The Catholic Church, for instance, worked for the defeat of the ERA. As far as I'm concerned, they should have had no say at all on a matter that involved American political life, and in which the entire American hierarchy was "selected, not elected" by a foreign national. The situation might be tolerable if these selections were done soley, as Hans Kung advocated in the earlier column that I did, on the basis of pastoral ability and fidelity to the gospels. That's not what's been happening in the Church for a long time. These guys are every bit as much political appointees as any American President's political appointees.

And on a slightly different aspect, I believe many people confuse the idea of faith or Christianity in government will equat to better ethics in government.

I would argue that it's not religion or a belief in God who determines the inner morality of the person; instead, it is the person's inner conscience that determines their actions.

Some would argue that those that believe in the Bible and believe in God and go to church regularly have higher ethics than those that don't.

That is specifically why some people feel that more religion belongs in government.

Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at September 18, 2005 09:43 AM

Yes, it sounds like it might lead to a split of the American Catholic Church from the general Catholic Church.

Ok all,

No more procrastinating. I have a Festival Latino to go to at Frog Island in Ypsilanti today. I just discovered it and so just posted it in the forum.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=880&pid=3394&st=0&#entry3394

If you are from Michigan or you know people here, invite them to join the fun.

Adios!

Matthew,

I am going to play devil's advocate here for a moment.

l. The Roman Catholic Church has had a deposit in it's ranks of homosexuals. Without putting a value judgment on homosexuals, it is, I feel, fair to say that the Roman Catholic Church has always made it clear that they consider homosexuality to be a sin. When a young man is in the process of deciding whether he wants to commit his life to the vocation and life style of a priest or brother in the Catholic Church, he is instructed and made knowledgeable to all the beliefs and requirements he will agree to adhere to for the rest of his life.

For whatever reason, there seems to be quite a bit of homosexuality in the Roman Catholic Church.
Without catagorizing anyone, the studies I have done on homosexuality in males indicated that SOME (note - I did not say ALL) male homosexuals have a strong propensity to gravitate toward young males and even younger boys. That may be one reason alot of the people that came forward in the past decade with their charges of sexual abuse and molestation, even rape, in the Catholic Church, were males.

The Pope may feel it his responsibility to protect his flock from further abuses to the children in the church.

I also know several women who were assaulted by priests while in positions where they were vulnerable to it - such as counseling situations and secretarial positions. Anyone who wears a label of priest, counselor, pastor, etc. carries power, and in my opinion, they should be more conscientious to not abuse it.

That being said, I personally think that the Catholic Church has the right to make any rules that they feel will protect their followers, and that they believe goes along with their interpretation of biblical scripture, as long as it does not result in the physical and emotional harm of anyone.

As far as homosexuals who want to be priests, the rules are up front. Perhaps they should find another vocation. If they can't adhere to the rules the head of the church sets forth, perhaps they should seriously consider changing churches.

For my own reasons, I did, and I have never been sorry. For those who wish to adhere to the rules, they will be happy staying.

In America, the way I understand it, freedom of religion means just that: that we the people can choose how and where we practice our faith, or not.

We have always had the freedom to choose. Just as religion should not rule America, America should not rule religion.

I say let the Pope make his rules. Let the people choose. America needs to continue to offer freedom of religion without interferring in
how religion is practiced, unless laws put in place to protect people from harm are broken, in my opinion.

Another reason why we must insist on seperation of church and state.

THIS IS WHY BUSH LET THEM THIRST TO DEATH

Katrina Wallops Black Voters

The aftermath of the hurricane could dilute black voter and Democratic strength throughout the South.

President Bush, Karl Rove, and top GOP strategists would never publicly gloat over Katrina's unintended political consequence. But there was a big and potentially lethal one for black voters and the Democratic Party. Nature's catastrophe scattered thousands of poor, black Democratic voters throughout more than 30 states from New Hampshire to California. That could dilute black voter and Democratic strength in Louisiana, and the South.

Black voters make up one third of the state's voters, and nearly one-half of New Orleans voters. They gave Clinton more than 90 percent of the vote in 1992 and 1996. That propelled him to victory over Bush Sr. and Robert Dole, and helped break the GOP stranglehold on state offices.

It also momentarily dented the GOP's Southern strategy. The strategy entailed saying and doing as little as possible about civil rights, actively courting conservative whites, and subtly pandering to the bigotry of Dixiecrats turned Republicans. Presidents Nixon, Reagan, and Bush Sr. (in his 1988 win) banked on that to grab the White House. Transforming Louisiana, with its nine electoral votes, into a crucial swing state, forced the GOP to pour resources, time, and energy into the state to win it.

Continues

http://www.alternet.org/katrina/25596/

Obtw Sparrow..

Didnt mean to pop out on you the other day. It was storming here and the electric kept popping on and off.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at September 18, 2005 10:26 AM

There's really no non-confrontational way to put this: where's your data? What kind of studies are you talking about? Because most pediphiles are heterosexual.

In fact, let me pass along a bit of individual research:

I have a relative who works as a sponser in AA. She's a woman, and works with women. She once related that a number of the women who she's worked with, once they were sober for about six months, began having memories of sexual abuse at the hands of their fathers.

We had a story in the New York Newspapers this week, about a woman who tried to kill her baby. It turns out that her father was the father of the child.

Here's a link for this piece of individual research:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/347123p-296264c.html

And, I do get the point of the political influence the Pope has. That is part and parcel of freedom of religion, in my opinion. Yes, it puts us at a disadvantage, because many Roman Catholics will vote the way the Pope leads in America. But, to me, it is part and parcel of religious freedom in America.

WE have to EDUCATE people, and show them that there are huge reasons that they are making the better choice to vote differently this time around. And, whether many like it or not, and say it shouldn't be so, this remains true: People vote their conscience led by their individual moral code many times.

If presented with a package of the possibility of a better standard of living, (like remaining on this planet, for instance, lol), REAL security and safety, a plan to get us out of Iraq and to stay out of war, financial and physical opportunity, AND a positive moral code they can feel good about, people will vote differently this next time. It is up to us to present the package. And let them know we are not empty words, that we WILL do our best to deliver. If we don't win '06 and '08 with the ammo we have, I will be very surprised.

Matt:

"un-Christ-like power-brokering and war-mongering. One can only speculate about the miraculous events that must have taken place during this Council. Truly, only a miracle of extraordinary proportions could make it possible for leaders who had proven themselves throughout history every bit as fallible as any member of the laity, to hereafter be draped by a cloak of infallibility of any kind."

~ and ~

"Try looking in the mirror, your Holiness"

LOL. Besides another thought provoking article, Matt ~ "YOU FUNNY"!

Matt...it's okay to be confrontational, brotha.
My research was done in the late seventies and was a book called the "Unhappy Gays" by Tim LaHaye.

That being my source then, I am just sure I can find more data to back my claims up. Have to be out for a while now, but will do so this afternoon.

I'll make one last point. In the old days, there were liberal and conservative Bishops and Cardinals. Not today. There are no "liberal" voices on issues of sexuality that are allowed to dissent from Rome's edicts for long.

Personally, I think Nicholas Kristof phrased it perfectly a few months ago:

Op-Ed: Catholic Devotion, and Doubts
The New York Times - May 10, 2005
Nicholas D. Kristof, nicholas@nytimes.com
Sao Paulo, Brazil - Here in Latin America, the great remaining heartland of Roman Catholicism, some Catholics have a blunt warning for Pope Benedict XVI: unless the Catholic Church changes course, it may come close to committing suicide.

Latin America sometimes feels a bit like Martin Luther's Wittenberg in 1517, on the eve of the Reformation. There is a growing gulf between many independent-minded churchgoers and grass-roots priests on the one hand, and the cardinals and the pope on the other.

"I resent them," said Alessandra Katiane da Silva, a 21-year-old who goes to Mass and was wearing a necklace with images of Jesus and the Virgin Mary. She said she could better judge her contraceptive needs than elderly cardinals, then added, "We have to take care of ourselves, because they're not looking out for us."

While the Latin American church has a conservative wing, many Catholics seem like Ms. da Silva - soured by some Vatican dogma but still identifying strongly with a local church and finding spiritual comfort there.

The result is that many local Catholic parishes have quietly seceded from the Vatican's control on sexual issues. The pope can thunder against birth control (other than a method based on timing a woman's cycles, derided by critics as "Vatican roulette"), but 70 percent of Brazilian women use artificial contraception. So the pope pontificates, and his flock here yawns.

"The Catholic Church's ban on condoms doesn't function here in Brazil," said Jose Roberto Prazeres, a psychologist at an AIDS center in Sao Paulo. "We partner with priests to give out condoms."

A prominent gynecologist, Albertina Duarte, said that she had never had a patient who was so Catholic that she objected to most forms of contraception. "Never," she said. "Never in my 35 years as a doctor."

Latin America is still the most dynamic part of the world for Roman Catholicism, accounting for 40 percent of the world's Catholics. But throughout Latin America, the number of evangelicals, especially Pentecostals, is surging, quadrupling in Brazil during John Paul II's papacy. Some Brazilians warn that at this rate Brazil could eventually become a predominantly Protestant country.

Some conservatives say the problem is that the church went touchy-feely and permissive after Vatican II, and they note that the evangelical sects gaining ground are more morally demanding, not less. But the more common view here is that the church has squandered its authority with positions that strike parishioners as backward, not uplifting, on divorce, birth control and the role of women.

Pope Benedict once fretted that on such issues the church "risks appearing like an anachronistic construct." In an essay written when he was a cardinal, he stuck with traditional values but acknowledged that many foresaw this bleak choice: "Either the church finds an understanding, a compromise with the values propounded by society which she wants to continue to serve, or she ... finds herself on the margin of society."

That's the tug of war being fought in places like Brazil, with grass-roots priests often trying to stay in tune with parishioners, while the Vatican tries to stay faithful to its values.

"There is the hierarchy of the church, and then there's the church that really functions at the local level," said the Rev. Valeriano Paitoni, a priest widely admired in Sao Paulo for running first-rate shelters for AIDS orphans. He was disciplined in 2000 for encouraging people to use condoms to protect against AIDS.

Most Brazilian Catholics, he said, want to see changes in the church's stance on birth control, homosexuality, marriage of priests and the role of women in the church. "If the church doesn't have the courage to take these issues up, and listen to science and the world, then there'll be a disaster," he said, adding that he is still optimistic that reforms will come.

In the 15th and 16th centuries, the Vatican responded to reformers like John Wycliffe and Martin Luther by circling the wagons. Luther had hoped to remain inside a reformed Catholic Church, but the pope excommunicated him, and the result was the Protestant Reformation.

I can't help feeling that today, Pope Benedict and the cardinals may be facing a similar choice. Unless the Vatican reconnects with ordinary people here in the Catholic heartland, the tens of millions who find spiritual meaning in their pews but have been turned off by many church positions, then the Vatican's obstinacy may yet kindle a Re-Reformation.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at September 18, 2005 11:03 AM

I try to be entertaining as well as enlightening. I don't know that I always succeed, but I do try. Thank you.

I will add:

I think it is quite unnatural to demand that men who want to devote their lives to serving and helping others take a "vow" of celibacy and give up sex the rest of their lives.

I have met some pretty messed up priests in my day, because of this very reason. They end up feeling completely powerless.....could that be a big reason they act powerful on those less powerful than they, like children, and vulnerable women?

I think it is quite unnatural to demand that men who want to devote their lives to serving and helping others take a "vow" of celibacy and give up sex the rest of their lives.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at September 18, 2005 11:28 AM

It is unnatural. That is why they turn on what they are naturally supposed to protect.

I have to agree with Matt on one point, I too believe most pedophiles are hetrosexual, however, in the progression of the...evil..it may actually be easier to substitute a boy for a girl for the simple reason of access.

Here is an interesting insight into the minds of rapists, do you know almost all serial rapists start thier crime careers as arsonists..?

Almost all of them

The serial rapist/arson connection is found in traditional rapists, not nessciarily pedophiles

Same evil, different pathologies.

I find the fire aspect though very telling. A very interesting clue

September 18, 2005--Thirty-five percent (35%) of Americans now say that President Bush has done a good or excellent job responding to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath. That's down from 39% before his speech from New Orleans.

The latest Rasmussen Reports survey shows that 41% give the President poor marks for handling the crisis, that's up 37% before the speech.

Fifty percent (50%) of Americans favor the main proposal from that speech--a federal commitment of $200 billion to help rebuild New Orleans. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are opposed and 23% are not sure.

The spending plan has not been well received by conservative voters--just 43% favor the huge federal commitment partisan while 37% are opposed. This is especially striking given how supportive the President's base has remained throughout his Administration.

The President's reconstruction plan is favored by 66% of liberal voters. Still, only 10% of liberals give the President a good or an excellent rating for handling the crisis.

http://rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina_September%2018.htm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA

HARHARHARHAR

Well sing praise and hallelujah.

I think today was my last day in the church I have been attending for the past three years.
Why? Because the pastor started a three week teaching on why we SHOULD join the church. Not just the ecclesia, or body of Christ. Nope. That's not good enough. You gotta join the denomination or else not be allowed a vote in matters, or allowed to teach Sunday School, etc.

I made up my mind after my experience of being indoctrinated and controlled in the Catholic Church that I was not ever going to be subject to that again.

I walked out in the first third of the pastor's sermon. I won't be back.

I'm not angry, mad, or upset. I'm just not doing it, so there is no need to prolong the misery.

And at least I won't have to watch morons who think this administration is holy and that our President is a holy and Godly man. If he is, he is a pretty stupid one, in my opinion.

Yay for freedom of religion, by the way! :)

LOL!

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at September 18, 2005 01:35 PM

Have I created a monster?????

Hi Truth,

I like all your comments, especially what you're saying about freedom of religion (i left my synagogue because my rabbi was a sexist pig and will be moving to Massachusetts soon where i know i can find a better one...) But just to throw something out there...

What good is freedom to chose what church/denomination/religion to belong or not to belong to if it's a forced choice? In other words, if one church said "no gays allowed" it's great that people would have the freedom to chose another church and no one would FORCE them anywhere, but is this really freedom to chose? Suppose, hypothetically, that some STATES decided to prohibit homosexuals. Well people would have the freedom to chose to leave those states and live elsewhere, but is that really full freedom of choice? One of my 13 year old students said something so innocently brilliant last year. She asked, "If people are given freedom to choose, but out of intimidation or discrimination or whatever, they are really sort of forced into choosing one thing... is that really freedom or democracy?"

Just throwing that out there!

Bush Katrina Ratings Fall After Speech
Survey of 1,000 Adults
September 16-17, 2005
President Bush Response to Hurricane Katrina

September 18, 2005--Thirty-five percent (35%) of Americans now say that President Bush has done a good or excellent job responding to Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath. That's down from 39% before his speech from New Orleans.

The latest Rasmussen Reports survey shows that 41% give the President poor marks for handling the crisis, that's up 37% before the speech.

Fifty percent (50%) of Americans favor the main proposal from that speech--a federal commitment of $200 billion to help rebuild New Orleans. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are opposed and 23% are not sure.

The spending plan has not been well received by conservative voters--just 43% favor the huge federal commitment partisan while 37% are opposed. This is especially striking given how supportive the President's base has remained throughout his Administration.

The President's reconstruction plan is favored by 66% of liberal voters. Still, only 10% of liberals give the President a good or an excellent rating for handling the crisis.

Following the speech, the President's rating for handling the Katrina crisis fell eight points among Republicans (from 71% good or excellent to 63%). The President also draws good or excellent marks from 11% of Democrats and 31% of those not affiliated with either major political party.
--snip--
Rasmussen Reports was the nation's most accurate polling firm during the Presidential election and the only one to project both Bush and Kerry's vote total within half a percentage point of the actual outcome.
http://rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina_September%2018.htm

Rasmussen's report looks like the reps X-mass present to NO...wtg BUSH !! He can't figure any way out other than to throw high price tag to this situation with no oversight. As soon as the "contractors" get the work done they will all leave NO to it's own and the poor will have no where to go but back to "camp mobile home city".

Native,

No one should be forced to do anything. More on that later.......(my beautiful lunch awaits me..)

Matthew,

Have you created a monster? Hmmmm......well, if that means getting us to think, a little teensy weensy enlightened thinking monster, perhaps.

No, my dear Matt.....I have always said I am non-denominational, but here to try to help.

It's obvious they value domineering above accepting help, so there it is........

I belonged to non-denominational church groups up to this point. Alot of what bothered me about this situation was the denominational legalism and other denominational customs........

I was warned by a person in my non-denominational church before I came here that this particular denomination would try to squeeze the life out of me......

Looks as though they were as uncomfortable having me there as a non-bonafide line signing member as I was being there.

To quote Martha: "It's a good thing".

YAYYY! Liberation, liberation, liberation......

Because most pediphiles are heterosexual.
Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at September 18, 2005 10:39 AM

Matt is right, TSP.

Check out the psychological and law enforcement material on pedophilia. The "typical" pedophile is a heterosexual male. Some molest only little girls, and some molest only little boys, some molest both girls and boys, but the typical victim is a prepubescent child about 8-10 years old on up to barely pubescent. Often the pedophiles are married and engage in 'normal' sexual relationships with their wives, but still molest children, or step-children in some cases - called 'grooming' because the pedophile has a relationship with the mother for the express purpose of having access to the child(ren). The fact that heterosexual men molest little boys does NOT make them homosexual at the same time; it's only part of the deviant behavior of pedophiles to molest either boys or girls. The fact that the victim is a child is all that matters to a pedophile.

The Catholic church may want to rid itself of homosexuals, but that will NOT solve the problem of pedophilic priests, because pedophiles are heterosexual.

I saw articles about the pope wanting to get rid of homosexual priests a few days ago and wondered why the witch hunt for homosexuals. It's well-known in psychology and in law enforcement that pedophilia is a heterosexual deviance that is NOT able to be "cured" with medication or therapy.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA
HARHARHARHAR
Posted by: Christy at September 18, 2005 01:10 PM

35%>>>...!!! And if the Goddess is with us, the ratings will fall lower still.... :-)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......

Unfortunately, it also means the Mississippi Delta will have to endure more visits from Nitwit, and I understand more visits are already being planned. Ugh.... My condolences to you for having to endure all that on top of the devastation of Katrina.

EDIT!
I said above:
The fact that heterosexual men molest little boys does NOT make them homosexual at the same time; it's only part of the deviant behavior of pedophiles to molest either boys or girls. The fact that the victim is a child is all that matters to a pedophile.

I MEANT to write: The fact that pedophiles are heterosexual men who molest little boys does NOT make them homosexual at the same time; it's only part of the deviant behavior of pedophiles to molest either boys or girls. The fact that the victim is a child is all that matters to a pedophile.

OT… but thought it might be of interest…

Global warming 'past the point of no return'

By Steve Connor, Science Editor
Published: 16 September 2005

A record loss of sea ice in the Arctic this summer has convinced scientists that the northern hemisphere may have crossed a critical threshold beyond which the climate may never recover.

Scientists fear that the Arctic has now entered an irreversible phase of warming which will accelerate the loss of the polar sea ice that has helped to keep the climate stable for thousands of years.

They believe global warming is melting Arctic ice so rapidly that the region is beginning to absorb more heat from the sun, causing the ice to melt still further and so reinforcing a vicious cycle of melting and heating.

The greatest fear is that the Arctic has reached a "tipping point" beyond which nothing can reverse the continual loss of sea ice and with it the massive land glaciers of Greenland, which will raise sea levels dramatically.

Read more here…

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/article312997.ece

Hola,

Me llamo ______. Quiero ayudarle. Tome por favor esta información, porque tenemos interés en minorías.

gracias tanto.

Very interesting approach... from the group Reform Ohio Now... http://www.reformohionow.org/

Here's the Plan:

Ohio has always been a great state, but times are tough. Ohio leads the country in job losses, and young people are leaving in droves. Our capitol is racked by numerous scandals, and elected officials still pander to big donors and ignore working people.

But now there's something we can do about it.

Reform Ohio Now is supporting four amendments on the ballot this November - real, common-sense reforms to take our state back from the politicians who have failed us.

Reform Ohio Now, a non-partisan group, will fix Ohio's electoral process and hold politicians accountable by taking big money out of state campaigns, by removing politicians from the process of drawing their own districts, by allowing Ohioans to vote by mail, and by setting up an impartial, bipartisan board to oversee elections. But we can't do it without your help. So get involved today and get Ohio back on track.

"Anybody who relishes democracy and who sees elections as the heart of the democratic process ought to see the appeal of this reform... It would return control of democracy to people near the political center... Political advocates always say that the changes they favor are non-partisan... It's true about this honest effort." -Dayton Daily News

"No congressional district should be safe because of the way it is drawn. It should be safe because the congressman represents the interests of the people in that district." -Ronald Reagan

More from the Reform Ohio Now site including a summary of the 4 amendments being proposed:

Reform Ohio Now is a diverse group of people and organizations concerned about Ohio's future and direction. We've seen the corruption, lack of accountability, and misaligned priorities in our state government. So we're working to hold politicians accountable in Ohio, through a series of constitutional amendments to be voted on in November 2005. These good government initiatives include:

1 - Putting Ohio's process of determining legislative seats in the hands of an independent, non-partisan commission. Currently, politicians bicker over where seats should be based on their own political interests, creating districts that are uncompetitive and where the issues facing Ohio are rarely debated in elections.

2 - Campaign finance reform for Ohio. The saturation of money into political campaigns is at an all time high. We propose reducing the maximum individual contribution to $2000 for statewide candidates and $1000 for General Assembly candidates. Corporate contributions would be prohibited, and loopholes allowing minors to make contributions would be tightened. This amendment also places overall limits on total contributions by an individual to all candidates and parties while limiting the amount parties can contribute.

3 - Modernizing Ohio's election system. An independent Board of Supervisors would oversee the conduct and administration of elections, ensuring access and fairness in elections. The system that works for Ohio's 88 counties would be implemented for the state as a whole.

4 - Increasing voter turnout. Ohioans deserve easy access to the polls, but often have difficulty finding it. This amendment would allow all Ohioans to vote by mail, if they choose to do so.

These four amendments are the first steps towards improving the quality and objectivity of Ohio's elections - and ultimately electing politicians who will listen to the voices of average Ohioans.

Read more:
http://www.reformohionow.org/content.jsp?content_KEY=577&t=about

Correction:

Sometimes I said minorities or hispanics and sometimes I said, you!

tenemos interés en usted!

NonnyO,

I did not say that what I read indicated that all pedophiles who molest boys are homosexual. The book I read by LaHaye suggested strongly that the statistics he studied indicated that many homosexual males desire young boys in addition to their adult sexual partners, and often times act out those desires.

LaHaye is a devout fundamentalist Christian.

Other studies from gay rights advocates also have differing arguments on the subject.

My motive is not to gay bash.

Matt asked for some data and perhaps a link to support my earlier post:

Here is one view:

In this paper we will consider the following evidence linking homosexuality to pedophilia:

· Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.

· Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).

· The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.

· Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

· Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of "boy-lovers" to be a legitimate gay rights issue.

· Pedophile themes abound in homosexual literary culture: Gay fiction as well as serious academic treatises promote "intergenerational intimacy."

MALE HOMOSEXUALS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES
Homosexual apologists admit that some homosexuals sexually molest children, but they deny that homosexuals are more likely to commit such offenses. After all, they argue, the majority of child molestation cases are heterosexual in nature. While this is correct in terms of absolute numbers, this argument ignores the fact that homosexuals comprise only a very small percentage of the population.

The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. To demonstrate this it is necessary to connect several statistics related to the problem of child sex abuse: 1) men are almost always the perpetrator; 2) up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys; 3) less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.

Men Account for Almost All Sexual Abuse of Children Cases

more....

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS02E3

Ok..I just want to comment that the Catholic church has a major problem on it's hand and they've been ineffective in taking care of it. It's not just an image problem; it's the reality of their lack of compassion towards victims that allowed it to escalate.

I know someone who was a victim of a pedephilic priest, and I know someone else who says people just look for situations to bash Catholics.

I don't know what is true. I certainly don't want to bash Catholics or anyone, but my heart goes out to each and every child who was so immensely harmed by an institution where TRUST should be implicit in it.

LaHaye also claims that George Washington was a devout Christian (which runs counter to all the available evidence) and is better known as a author of "fiction" - namely the "Left Behind" series. My guess is that the research LaHaye uses in his book is fiction as well. He is also one of the leading proponents (I believe) of the "Christian nation" myth.

Oh dear, looks as though the sight I referred to is Tony Perkin's.

Well, flog me now and get it over with.

See you all tomorrow!

Ok..I think Karl Rove is trying to take the pressure of Bush by making himself a target.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/09/17/rove-off-the-record-on-ka_n_7513.html

Yes, LaHaye is one of the authors of the Left Behind Series. It is fiction, and he has always admitted it is fiction. It is about the book of Revelation in the bible. I never read the series because they did not hold my interest.

His book I referred to on today's topic, is not fiction, and is not to be construed as fiction.

Again, I honestly think the root problem is the Catholic Church's demand for celibacy from it's priests and brothers and nuns. It is not natural.
The scripture the demand is taken from is not even a demand in scripture. Its message is (paraphrasing): You can devote more time and energy to the ministry if you remain single, but if you desire sex, it is better for you to marry.
Jesus didn't say it, Paul did.

Just another instance where mankind put his fingers in the stew and made a mess by making it a doctrinal mandate and issue.

Just another reason why I don't like denominational churches.

A Conference coming up on Voting Reform and related policies...

Election Reform Conference, Oct 7-8, 2005 in Columbus, OH

About the Conference

On October 7-8, the Center for Policy Alternatives, Demos and Common Cause will host an Election Reform Conference. This conference is designed to provide policy content, leadership development and networking opportunities for state legislators to advance an election reform agenda in their states. This conference, targeted to state legislators in the Midwest, has three strategic objectives:

1 - Raise the awareness of state policymakers of the electoral problems that need repair within their states while providing proposals and best practices that provide solutions to these challenges.

2 - Develop leadership capacity among policymakers and apply that capacity to effect change within their states.

3 - Connect these legislators to electoral policy experts, reform advocates and citizen organizers and facilitate the creation of action plans to move a reform agenda forward in their states.

This combination of strategic objectives - leadership, education and networks - has been successfully used to reform public policy and enrich democracy in America.

Read more here...
http://www.stateaction.org/events/electionreform/about.cfm

"The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population."

They doubt Kinsey, but I wonder how they feel about that study I just saw in which (going from memory here) either 1 in 7, or 1 in 10 women had slept with another woman by the time they had graduated from college. Now, that doesn't make these women gay or even bisexual, but it does suggest that Kinsey's numbers are likely to much more on the mark than those of the gay-denial folks.

Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at September 18, 2005 04:31 PM

By "Christian Nation myth" are you referring to the cult known as Dominionists?

Yes.

Rove Off The Record On The Anti-War Movement: Cindy Sheehan Is A Clown. There Is No Real Anti-War Movement...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/#a007513

Next weekend let's make that slobbering, knuckle dragging, doughboy eat his words. Go to Washington, D.C. and have your voice counted.

Tom Engelhardt | The Presidency Shines (for Twenty-Six Minutes)
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805X.shtml
Don't say they can't. They can - and they did. Despite every calumny, it turns out that the Bush administration can put together an effective, well-coordinated rescue team and get crucial supplies to militarily occupied, devastated New Orleans on demand, in time, and just where they are most needed. Last Thursday, in a spectacular rescue operation, the administration team delivered just such supplies without a hitch to one of the city's neediest visitors, who had been trapped in hell-hole surroundings for almost three weeks by Hurricane Katrina. I'm speaking, of course, of George W. Bush.

Higher Ground
by Stevie Wonder

People keep on learnin'
Soldiers keep on warrin'
World keep on turnin'
Cause it won't be too long

Powers keep on lyin'
While your people keep on dyin'
World keep on turnin'
Cause it won't be too long

I'm so darn glad he let me try it again
Cause my last time on earth I lived a whole world of sin
I'm so glad that I know more than I knew then
Gonna keep on tryin'
Till I reach the highest ground

Teachers keep on teachin'
Preachers keep on preachin'
World keep on turnin'
Cause it won't be too long
Oh no

Lovers keep on lovin'
Believers keep on believin'
Sleepers just stop sleepin'
Cause it won't be too long
Oh no

I'm so glad that he let me try it again
Cause my last time on earth I lived a whole world of sin
I'm so glad that I know more than I knew then
Gonna keep on tryin'
Till I reach my highest ground...Whew!
Till I reach my highest ground
No one's gonna bring me down
Oh no
Till I reach my highest ground
Don't you let nobody bring you down (they'll sho 'nuff try)
God is gonna show you higher ground
He's the only friend you have around

Frm. Pres. Clinton launches withering attack on Bush on Iraq, Katrina, budget

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Former US president Bill Clinton sharply criticised George W. Bush for the raq War and the handling of Hurricane Katrina, and voiced alarm at the swelling US budget deficit.

Breaking with tradition under which US presidents mute criticisms of their successors, Clinton said the Bush administration had decided to invade Iraq "virtually alone and before UN inspections were completed, with no real urgency, no evidence that there were weapons of mass destruction."

The Iraq war diverted US attention from the war on terrorism "and undermined the support that we might have had," Bush said in an interview with an ABC's "This Week" programme.

Clinton said there had been a "heroic but so far unsuccessful" effort to put together an constitution that would be universally supported in Iraq.

The US strategy of trying to develop the Iraqi military and police so that they can cope without US support "I think is the best strategy. The problem is we may not have, in the short run, enough troops to do that," said Clinton.

On Hurricane Katrina, Clinton faulted the authorities' failure to evacuate New Orleans ahead of the storm's strike on August 29.

People with cars were able to heed the evacuation order, but many of those who were poor, disabled or elderly were left behind.

"If we really wanted to do it right, we would have had lots of buses lined up to take them out," Clinton.

He agreed that some responsibility for this lay with the local and state authorities, but pointed the finger, without naming him, at the former director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).

FEMA boss Michael Brown quit in response to criticism of his handling of the Katrina disaster. He was viewed as a political appointee with no experience of disaster management or dealing with government officials.

"When James Lee Witt ran FEMA, because he had been both a local official and a federal official, he was always there early, and we always thought about that," Clinton said, referring to FEMA's head during his 1993-2001 presidency.

"But both of us came out of environments with a disproportionate number of poor people."

On the US budget, Clinton warned that the federal deficit may be coming untenable, driven by foreign wars, the post-hurricane recovery programme and tax cuts that benefitted just the richest one percent of the US population, himself included.

"What Americans need to understand is that ... every single day of the year, our government goes into the market and borrows money from other countries to finance Iraq, Afghanistan, Katrina, and our tax cuts," he said.

"We have never done this before. Never in the history of our republic have we ever financed a conflict, military conflict, by borrowing money from somewhere else."

Clinton added: "We depend on Japan, China, the United Kingdom, Saudi Arabia, and Korea primarily to basically loan us money every day of the year to cover my tax cut and these conflicts and Katrina. I don't think it makes any sense."

Bush’s key aide ‘missed’ Katrina
Sarah Baxter, Washington and Jacqui Goddard, New Orleans

“BUSH’S brain” was missing when flood waters swamped New Orleans. Karl Rove, the White House aide who goes by that unofficial title, was suffering from painful kidney stones and was briefly hospitalised in the middle of the biggest crisis so far of President George W Bush’s second term.

Once his condition improved it was Rove who urged the president to open his chequebook for the stricken city, against the advice of White House economists, and spend $200 billion (£111 billion) to rebuild it “higher and better”, as Bush went on to promise.

Although many Republicans are horrified by the cost, Rove is determined to revive Bush’s dormant image as a compassionate conservative, the theme of his first presidential campaign in 2000, and will be overseeing the reconstruction effort.

Bill Kristol, editor of the neo-conservative Weekly Standard, said Rove’s absence had made a significant difference after the hurricane hit. “He was out of commission for 24-36 hours and he’s indispensable. It’s a thin White House and it’s not a good thing that the government could become paralysed for a day,” Kristol said.

-snip-

Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state who grew up in the segregated South, has become the most prominent champion of a comprehensive anti-poverty campaign in Katrina’s wake. She said the South had a problem with “persistent poverty”, but dismissed allegations that racism was to blame for Bush’s tardy reaction.

Bush also sought to reject charges of racism by asking T D Jakes, a black evangelist with close links to the Republicans, to deliver the sermon of remembrance for the victims of Katrina held in Washington last week. Some churchmen were outraged by what they regarded as a blatantly political choice of preacher.

One New Orleans clergyman, whose home was flooded, refused to attend. “I didn’t have the stomach for it. I didn’t want to hear a black right-wing friend of Bush,” he said.

Kristol said he hoped Bush had not talked himself into believing his legacy depended on his reponse to the hurricane. “The truth is Bush’s legacy will be determined by Iraq,” he said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1785729,00.html

Voting / Election Reform Organization In North Carolina...

North Carolina Grassroots Org. Fighting for Verified Voting

NORTH CAROLINA CHOOSES PAPER

08/26/2005 signed into law!

NEXT STEP - MAKING SURE IMPLEMENTATION GOES SMOOTHLY - We need your help!
Citizens who support the reliable, secure, auditable, accessible and cost effective paper ballot and optical scan option must take action immediately.

The precinct-based optical scan system with a ballot marking machine meets the disabled accessible requirement of the Federal HAVA law. DREs do not.

Take Action: Visit this page for simple actions you can take -- page

Learn which voting system computer scientists recommend -- optical

Sign on to our list-serve for quicker updates NCVerifiable list serve , Let us know if you can help, by tracking your county's plans for new voting systems, and working with local officials to avoid the more expensive, less reliable touchscreen or DRE voting systems.

Please go here for more info and links...

http://www.ncvoter.net/index.html

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at September 18, 2005 04:26 PM

The only thing LaHaye got right (ask any vice cop who investigates sex crimes) is that the perpetrators of sex crimes are almost always male. LaHaye's statistics have been skewed to reflect his homophobic bias because he knows that will sell to the 'christian' audience he targets. He does not live in the real world if he can only manipulate statistics to support his hypothesis.

Just because pedophiles molest little boys - AND little girls - it does NOT logically follow that they are homosexual. I daresay most pedophiles would run screaming into the next county if a known adult male homosexual came near them because they consider themselves heterosexual.

I took a psych class on human sexuality in college (and I used to work in law enforcement years ago). The number of female and homosexual pedophiles is so small it's statistically insignificant; not unheard of, but extremely rare, and they always make headlines. The average run-of-the-mill pedophiles who don't make national headlines are almost always heterosexual men.

LaHaye writes fiction, as Matt noted. I wouldn't put any credence in what LaHaye writes. He has an agenda and skewed statistics to arrive at the conclusions he wanted because in the 'christian' world it's vogue to hate homosexual people just now; his aim is to profit from the sale of his books and promote homophobia.

La.'s Gov. Blanco's BIG mistake was in trusting the feds:

Blanco says feds pledged buses

By MICHELLE MILLHOLLON
Capitol news bureau

Nearly three weeks after Hurricane Katrina raged ashore, Gov. Kathleen Blanco still wants one question answered.
Where were the buses?

Hours after the hurricane hit Aug. 29, the Federal Emergency Management Agency announced a plan to send 500 commercial buses into New Orleans to rescue thousands of people left stranded on highways, overpasses and in shelters, hospitals and homes.

On the day of the storm, or perhaps the day after, FEMA turned down the state's suggestion to use school buses because they are not air conditioned, Blanco said Friday in an interview.

Even after levees broke and residents were crowding the Louisiana Superdome, then-FEMA Director Mike Brown was bent on using his own buses to evacuate New Orleans, Blanco said.

During the delay, misery and mayhem mounted in the Dome, thousands gathered in desperation at the nearby convention center, and Americans watched in shock as dead and dying New Orleans residents were broadcast on national television.

The state had sent 68 school buses into the city on Monday.

Blanco took over more buses from Louisiana school systems and sent them in on Wednesday, two days after the storm. She tapped the National Guard to drive them. Each time the buses emptied an area, more people would appear, she said.

The buses took 15,728 people to safety, a Blanco aide said. But the state's fleet of school buses wasn't enough. On Wednesday, with the FEMA buses still not in sight, Blanco called the White House to talk to Bush and ended up speaking to Chief of Staff Andy Card.

"I said, 'Even if we had 500 buses, they've underestimated the magnitude of this situation, and I think I need 5,000 buses, not 500,'" Blanco recounted.

"'But, Andy, those 500 are not here,'" the governor said.

Card promised to get Blanco more buses.

Later Wednesday night, Blanco walked into the State Police Communications Center and asked if anyone knew anything about the buses.

An officer told her the buses were just entering the state.

"I said, 'Do you mean as in North Louisiana, which is another six hours from New Orleans?,'" Blanco recalled in the interview. "He said, 'Yes, m'am.'"

It was at that point, Blanco said, that she realized she had made a critical error.

"I assumed that FEMA had staged their buses in near proximity," she said. "I expected them to be out of the storm's way but accessible in one day's time."

It was late Wednesday. The buses wouldn't get to New Orleans until Thursday. By then, many of the sickest and the weakest were dead or dying.

The buses weren't the only resource to arrive late, Blanco said.

continue:
http://www.2theadvocate.com/stories/091805/new_blanco001.shtml

Don't choke on this one:

New twist on aid for Iraq: U.S. seeks donations

SNIP

Although more than $30 billion in taxpayer funds have been appropriated for Iraqi reconstruction, the administration earlier this month launched an Internet-based fundraising effort that it says is aimed at giving Americans "a further stake in building a free and prosperous Iraq."

Contributors have no way of knowing who's getting the money or precisely where it's headed because the government says it must keep the details secret for security reasons.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/chitribts/20050918/ts_chicagotrib/newtwistonaidforiraqusseeksdonations

According to DailyKOS, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-Ny., said at a fundraiser that Hackett is "definitely running" for Senate and that he believes he will oust DeWine.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/18/71357/8725

Posted by: oncall at September 18, 2005 05:43 PM

Yep! I choked! Someone help me dislodge the bile, please!!! Gag-g-g-g-g-g!

I'd suggest Nitwit hit up his rich oil cronies (and other corporate buddies) for charity to rebuild Iraq. The oil companies are currently making an obscene amount of money and they can afford it if they eliminate the yearly bonuses for the executives. The US taxpayers can't afford it.

Our money is best spent at home, and currently the people in the Mississippi Delta need our help the most.

Bush Administration Hires Winston Smith to Work at the Ministry of Truth
The Bush administration sent out a press release on Friday saying that they had appointed Norris Anderson to be the acting director for the Office of Women's Health to fill the position that was vacated when Susan Wood quit in protest. The press release was picked up by MS Magazine, Planned Parenthood, my co-blogger Magpie on Pacific Views and Tim Grieve at Salon. What was Anderson's primary expertise? He's had years as a veterinarian.

Very soon after that, the press release "disappeared" from the government site and a new press release showed that Ms. Theresa A. Toigo had been made the acting director. Grieve provided the google cache link to the original press release, but when you look at it now, it had been turned into an advisory on buying drugs on the internet. Then Magpie found another link that showed Anderson with his new title in the Office of Women's health. Funny thing, now that link has been updated too. But Magpie captured the original before it could be changed.

Such busy people over at the FDA these days. How many other documents are they "changing" these days?

Mary :: 11:29 AM :: Comments (3) :: TrackBack (0)
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/

As a woman, and as a mom of daughters, I find this too unspeakable for words!

NonnyO and Oncall,

Actually, I think it's a fair request to ask for halliburton to work for less than their usual rate givent he gifts they were given in Iraq and the 8.8 billion dollars they lost there.

So with Roll Call, a congressional newspaper (and a sister publication of The Economist), saying that America in 2006 is looking like America in 1994, Mr Bush’s Republican party should take notice. In 1994, House Republicans surprised the country by taking control of the chamber from the corrupt and complacent Democrats. However, it is unlikely that the Democrats will be able to pull off the same thing in next year’s mid-term elections. Partisans of both parties have gerrymandered districts to their liking, so few seats are likely to change hands.

And Mr Bush still has a few arrows in his quiver. He has nominated a reasonably moderate character, John Roberts, as chief justice on the Supreme Court, despite all the fevered expectations on the left that he would plump for a hardline conservative. His next choice, to replace the centrist Sandra Day O’Connor, may be trickier. He may yet feed a ferociously conservative justice to the court in order to shore up his right-wing base. Whoever he chooses, he is likely to move sooner rather than later.
http://www.economist.com/agenda/displayStory.cfm?story_id=4418260&fsrc=RSS

NonnyO,

The book I am referring to by LaHaye was written in 1978.

I honestly don't think his intentions were to sell many books promoting homophobia back in 1978. It wasn't the political issue du jour as it is now.

I choose to believe there are still honest people out there that use the name "Christian" when referring to their religion and sometimes resulting life style.

Okay, we need a laugh today, right?

A word from our irreverent reverand, General J. C. Christian at Patriot Boy Blog Spot, about one of our topics of the day, homosexual priests, witches, pricks, etc.
Enjoy:

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_17...

Clinton lambastes Bush

Washington - Former US president Bill Clinton on Sunday sharply criticised George W Bush for the Iraq War and the handling of Hurricane Katrina and voiced alarm at the swelling US budget deficit.

Breaking with tradition under which US presidents mute criticisms of their successors, Clinton said the Bush administration had decided to invade Iraq "virtually alone and before UN inspections were completed, with no real urgency, no evidence there were weapons of mass destruction".

The Iraq war diverted US attention from the war on terrorism "and undermined the support that we might have had," Bush said in an interview with an ABC's "This Week" programme.

Reid informs Frist that Dems will filibuster if Judge Priscilla Owen is nominated.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2005/09/17/reid_warns_of_filibuster_over_owen.html

Please, let them all filibuster with a nice strong spine!

a few quick notes from Katrina-relief efforts, ground-zero

the Red Cross is still the relief effort with the greatest impact here in affected areas in Louisiana. Many snafu's, they're not perfect, but God Bless them for their efforts.
The Red Cross still has approx. 100 shelters open in the greater Baton Rouge and south La. area.
There are still 23,000 people in shelters in Louisiana, 3 weeks post-Katrina.

The River Center RC shelter in BR is still the largest in this area, now has 1400 people there, down from a high of 8,000 two weeks ago.

Sen. John Kerry was in Baton Rouge last Monday, he was visiting the area shelters along with Rep. William Jefferson, D-N.O. / local newspaper ran a nice photo of JK, hugging a child. He's still my president of choice.

Some evacuees in the shelters have left with friends or relatives, others are being placed in temporary housing as it becomes available. FEMA still dragging on that effort.
FEMA finally set up a base office in Baton Rouge on Thursday, 18 days after Katrina.

Baton Rouge now has approx. 250,000 displaced Katrina evacuees, most from the greater New Orleans area, most living with friends, relatives, or in hotels. Vacant hotel rooms or empty apartments are almost non existant.

Red Cross and FEMA volunteers working in the surrounding New Orleans area are being housed on 2 huge cruise ships, docked near the French Quarter in New Orleans.
My husband was able to devote 2 weeks as a Red Cross volunteer, they have tasked him and other male volunteers to drive large rented UHaul trucks of Red Cross supplies into New Orleans, French Quarter area, West Bank, and Slidell on a daily basis.
Still no electricity in areas like Slidell, which is east of New Orleans. That area got a double punch, massive wind damage and flood waters. He says the pictures on TV can't begin to capture the total devastation. And the stench on the ground in New Orleans is as grotesque as the media reports.
Most of the water is receding in greater New Orleans. He was able to drive a Red Cross truck into areas yesterday that were submerged under 8 feet of water just a week ago. Still no electricity or running water in New Orleans except for in the small French Quarter/Garden District area.

Lots of tension and frustration here towards FEMA. First they said they were going to set up mobile home trailer parks to provide the homeless with temporary housing. But FEMA can't seem to locate/acquire that many mobile homes, so now they are trying to acquire vacant rentals or reposessed houses, but that is scarce in this area. Most BR residents already have friends or relatives living with them. Many BR families have taken in more than 1 family into their homes. This is a VERY crowded city, with massive traffic jams to prove it.
But on the whole, Baton Rouge has opened their hearts and homes to our neighbors from New Orleans. We all realize the storm could have hit us instead.

If anyone can spare a few days, the Red Cross is still asking for volunteers, boots on the ground. The need is great, especially as some parts of New Orleans begin to open up. The original group of Red Cross volunteers have now been at it for 3 weeks and need replacements, as volunteers return to their own jobs. If you're interested, call your local RC chapter, and they will direct you.
Again, thanks so much to everyone!
New Orleans, south Louisiana, and the Gulf Coast still has a tremendous ordeal ahead.
Thanks, DCP-ers!

Suggestion to everyone here...

Please write/call C-SPAN and urge them to cover next weekend's pro-peace march in Washington.

email: events@cspan.org
Main Number: (202) 737-3220

otvrd,

You may like Michelle's piece in the forum about N.O.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=879&pid=3395&st=0&#entry3395

Posted by: sparrow at September 18, 2005 06:25 PM

IMHO, I could also live with them doing the same thing to this Roberts nomination for (1) the Judiciary Committee not getting those documents from the Iran Contra days still kept secret; and (2) because four days before Roberts got the nomination he had a favorable opinion that would give Nitwit dictatorial powers and approve torture.

Our senators need to think long and hard about consolidating so much power in the hands of one man in the executive branch.... and upsetting the system of checks and balances between the three branches of government....

I suspect if Owens was nominated there would be massive demonstrations against her. She should NOT have been approved for the position she currently has.

Democrats Question Gonzalez on Attempt to Blame Eco Groups for Flood
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805C.shtml
An email message which suggested the Bush Justice Department was looking to blame environmentalists for a break in the New Orleans levee and the ensuing flood has sparked vehement responses among the Democratic caucus in Congress.

Peter Dreier | Bush Helps Disaster Profiteers
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805F.shtml
President Bush is taking advantage of the Katrina tragedy to get rid of workers' protections in favor of higher profits for politically connected corporations.

Ernie McCray | Katrina's Wakeup Call to We the People
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805H.shtml
Ernie McCray: You know, we can be so beautiful, at times, like right now. Just look at us, human beings of all colors and sexualities and creeds and beliefs and affiliations reaching out to the many battered souls who survived Katrina's devastating visit.

For Bush Disasters Mean Troops on US Soil
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805G.shtml
President Bush's push to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters like Hurricane Katrina could lead to a loosening of legal limits on the use of federal troops on US soil.
{{{ With Louisiana already under martial law and a dusk to dawn curfew, it seems likely Bu$hCo could abuse his powers with our military on US soil, too.}}}

JoAnn Wypijewski | Veterans Lead Counter Recruitment Efforts
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805Z.shtml
The planners of Operation Iraqi Freedom forgot another thing on the road to Baghdad: how veterans would affect their ability to get new boots on the ground.

Rice a No Show at UN Dinner on Women's Rights
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/091805E.shtml
Diplomacy's most powerful woman, US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, has turned down a dinner date with other female foreign ministers to discuss women's rights, citing a busy schedule.

Hurricane Hugo at the U.N.
By Mike Whitney
Hugo Chavez's performance at the UN was greeted with the bucket-loads of bile that one expects from America's rightward-titling media. - The outpouring of venom came from all corners; appearing in many newspapers across the nation, invoking the hackneyed expressions of contempt for any foreign leader who rebuffs Washington or who follows redistributive economic policies.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10318.htm

Posted by: oncall at September 18, 2005 05:43 PM

Don't choke on this one:

New twist on aid for Iraq: U.S. seeks donations

Posted by: oncall at September 18, 2005 05:43 PM

Same reaction I had when asked at church today to donate for victims of the flood in New Orleans. They said the money is going to Missouri. I just hoped it isn't going into a fund Rove will turn into campaign money.

Any techies up to trying this?

Oh, and for the technically minded, you can download Diebold's GEMS Central Tabulator software right here and use the step-by-step instructions to hack it yourself!
http://www.bradblog.com

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at September 18, 2005 06:18 PM

1978 or now: LaHaye was still wrong except for the one generalization that psychologists and law enforcement people already know, then and now: sex crimes are almost always committed by men. Pedophiles are almost always heterosexual men (and there is no cure for pedophilia). Skewed (or falsified?) statistics do not alter facts. Homophobia was very much on the agenda back in 1978, but wasn't ranted and raved about as much in MSM infotainment news as it is now. Homophobic attitudes like LaHaye's from the past are what have formed the homophobic attitudes of today, and the only difference is that it wasn't blathered about on TV then as now.

WHAT'S MISSING IN BUSH
Struggle, sacrifice and suffering
Katie McKy | RAW STORY COLUMNIST

Bush, born in Connecticut, presents himself as a cowboy. Now, I’m all for reinvention. Ranging is good. Just because one was born in a brownstone in Brooklyn doesn’t mean that one should die in that brownstone.

But Bush is a cowboy too gussied up, too far from the hard truths of the trail, to be believed. As a cowpuncher, he’s closer to the sort depicted by Roy Rogers and Gene Autry than Clint Eastwood.

I’ve seen a few true cowboys and you can trace their hard trails in the lines of the face, which look like a cross between a saddle and a river delta. But Bush is soft. He clears brush for the cameras and reaches for a guitar when levees break. He’s as far from a hard, laconic, independent, and scarred cowboy as a boy can be.

And that’s the problem. When Bush rode into Washington, it wasn’t the end of a long, hard, dusty trail.

read more... http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/mcky/missing_in_bush_091805.htm

Hey I just put up new iraq pics on Reb Nation...

BUT also Ive been finding some very interesting news today.. Too much to put on here go check it out if you get a chance

www.rebellenation.blogspot.com

Posted by: monkey at September 18, 2005 07:46 PM

And we were also told he is a good Christian too.

Gee...sounds like the lies started so long ago that they can't remember how to tell the truth.

Bolton has a friend...

UN Foundation President Calls for Bill O'Reilly's Public Apology

Washington, D.C.-United Nations Foundation President, Timothy E. Wirth, today called for Fox News to withdraw and publicly apologize for remarks made by the network's Bill O'Reilly. O'Reilly said he "wished" that Hurricane Katrina had hit the United Nations building in New York City.

Mr. O'Reilly's comments were made during his radio program, The Radio Factor, on the day that hundreds of world leaders, including President Bush, were gathered at the UN for the opening of the 59th UN General Assembly meeting.

Mr. O'Reilly's exact comments were:

"Bush to address the U.N., says we must be steadfast in battling terrorism. I'm sure all the U.N. people fell asleep. They don't really care about anything over there at all. I just wish Katrina had only hit the United Nations building, nothing else, just had flooded them out. And I wouldn't have rescued them."

Attached please find Senator Wirth's letter to the head of Fox News.

###

September 16, 2005

Mr. Roger Ailes
Chairman and Chief Executive Office
Fox News Network
New York, New York

Dear Roger,

I was astonished and appalled by the comments made by Fox News' Bill O'Reilly on his September 14th radio show, The Radio Factor. O'Reilly said he wished that the deadly Hurricane Katrina would have hit the United Nations building and flooded it. He added that if it was up to him, he would not have rescued anyone.

Mr. O'Reilly should be required to withdraw these remarks. And both Mr. O'Reilly and Fox should make an immediate and public apology.

Some weeks ago Pat Robertson made a mistake in calling for the assassination of a head of state - and then he had the decency to apologize and withdraw his comments. Bill O'Reilly should do the same.

Sincerely yours,

Timothy E. Wirth,
President, The United Nations Foundation

Cc. Rupert Murdoch

Ok..well, most of these people I don't know, but here's the line up for DC

SPEAKERS LIST for 9-24 - HIGHTOWER, PALAST, MEDEA, SHEHAN and more
Edited on Sun Sep-18-05 11:18 PM by Adenoid_Hynkel

what a lineup! stick around for le tigre-if you're not familiar with them, mark my words, they're going to steal the show

the coup will be a nice surprise for the unfamiliar as well. and they've added joan baez!

The Operation Ceasefire performer schedule is as follows:

2:05 PM - Machetres

2:30 PM - Living Things

3:18 PM - Joan Baez

3:50 PM - Wayne Kramer and the Bellrays

4:41 PM - Steve Earle

5:31 PM - The Coup

6:23 PM - Sweet Honey in the Rock

7:09 PM - The Evens

7:54 PM - Ted Leo+Pharmacists

8:50 PM - Head Roc

9:37 PM - Thievery Corporation

10:59 PM - Pure Belly Dance

11:27 PM - Bouncing Souls

12:12 AM - Le Tigre

The following speakers will appear between the musical acts: host Jello Biafra, Co-Founder of Gold Star Families for Peace Cindy Sheehan, Representative Lynn Woolsey, Washington Wizard Forward Etan Thomas, Former State Department Officer Ann Wright, national radio commentator Jim Hightower, Fernando Suarez del Solar of Gold Star Families, Reverend Graylan Hagler, Cindy Corrie, Mother of peace activist Rachel Corrie who was killed in the West Bank, Code Pink and Global Exchange Co-Founder Medea Benjamin, the DC Guerilla Poets, Investigative Journalist Greg Palast, Iraq Vets Against the War Co- Founder Michael Hoffman, Anti-Flag drummer Pat Thetic and more.

Deadline Hollywood...

They Shoot News Anchors, Don’t They?
Media moguls, not looters, killed Katrina’s truth tellers
by NIKKI FINKE

At first, only CNN appeared not to have thoroughly read the proverbial memo. It was the only network, on air and on its Web site, to compare and contrast the wildly contradictory statements by federal, state and local officials, sometimes within hours, but often within minutes of each other. It was CNN that posted the first full transcript of New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin’s profanity- and passion-filled September 2 interview on local radio. It was also CNN that first exposed the gruesome nature of the conditions at the Superdome, at the convention center and in the hospital corridors. Its broadcasters were the first to keep a heart-wrenching online blog during Katrina. Even as late as September 6, political correspondent Ed Henry was the first to counter the claims by House Majority Leader Tom DeLay that local officials and not the feds were to blame, by reporting that congressional Republicans, in a secret confab, were giving the Bush administration a big fat F.

Then the fix was in.

On September 8, CNN anchorette Kyra Phillips was chewing into House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi for “continuing to criticize the administration, and criticize the director of FEMA... I think it’s unfair that FEMA is just singled out. There are so many people responsible for what has happened in the state of Louisiana.”

Instead of smiling through clenched teeth, the San Francisco Democrat bit back: “I’m sorry that you think it’s unfair. But I don’t . . . If you want to make a case for the White House, you should go on their payroll.”

By September 12, even the White House admitted that FEMA had been its own disaster area by pushing out its Arabian-horseman-turned-jackass head, Michael Brown. (Bush finally admitted on Tuesday that the buck was going to stop with him whether he liked it or not. “To the extent the federal government didn’t fully do its job right, I take responsibility,” he said.) That same day, CNN’s parent company, Time Warner, announced the hiring of DeLay’s chief of staff as a top Washington lobbyist. This news, and its timing, prompted Jeff Chester of the Center for Digital Democracy to tell the L.A. Weekly: “Time Warner aligning itself with the right-wing DeLay machine should send shudders [down] CNN and HBO. Clearly, TW wants DeLay insurance so it won’t have to face cable-ownership safeguards, à la carte rules and broadband non-discrimination policies.”

For the first 120 hours after Hurricane Katrina, TV journalists were let off their leashes by their mogul owners, the result of a rare conjoining of flawless timing (summer’s biggest vacation week) and foulest tragedy (America’s worst natural disaster). All of a sudden, broadcasters narrated disturbing images of the poor, the minority, the aged, the sick and the dead, and discussed complex issues like poverty, race, class, infirmity and ecology that never make it on the air in this swift-boat/anti-gay-marriage/Michael Jackson media-sideshow era. So began a perfect storm of controversy.

Contrary to the scripture so often quoted in these areas of Louisiana and Mississippi, the TV newscasters knew the truth, but the truth did not set them free. Because once the crisis point had passed, most TV journalists went back to business-as-usual, their choke chains yanked by no-longer-inattentive parent-company bosses who, fearful of fallout from fingering Dubya for the FEMA fuckups, decided yet again to sacrifice community need for corporate greed. Too quickly, Katrina’s wake was spun into a web of deceit by the Bush administration, then disseminated by the Big Media boys’ club. (Karl Rove spent the post-hurricane weekend conjuring up ways to shift blame.)

If big media look like they’re propping up W’s presidency, they are. Because doing so is good for corporate coffers — in the form of government contracts, billion-dollar tax breaks, regulatory relaxations and security favors. At least that wily old codger Sumner Redstone, head of Viacom, parent company of CBS, has admitted what everyone already knows is true: that, while he personally may be a Democrat, “It happens that I vote for Viacom. Viacom is my life, and I do believe that a Republican administration is better for media companies than a Democratic one.”

more... http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/43/deadline-finke.php

Posted by: monkey at September 18, 2005 07:58 PM

I emailed that to everyone on my email--everyone that isn't here that is!

(That means my fundie inlaws, and others who don't surf the internet but use email.)

By the way...thank you for your oil links, I sent them to everyone on that spam-mail and I included a few links of my own. Thanks for your help.

I didn't send it right away because I really wanted to cool off. As you can imagine, I was quite upset at having received an email to petition gas prices while people were starving and dying in N.O.

Unfortunately, it takes extreme devastation for people to recognise the value of government protections of Americans. And the new deal was safe for 50 years, yet many radical right people have been trying desparately to dismantle them.

Now John Edwards is promoting a return to depression era job programs.

Here's the link:
http://www.theiowachannel.com/news/4988847/detail.html

Posted by: madame defarge at September 18, 2005 06:53 PM

Good idea!

I remember being glad to watch the protests in NYC last summer while CNN cut them off.

Another must read Frank Rich piece!

http://iht.nytimes.com/protected/articles/2005/09/18/opinion/edrich.php

The Pope is trying to sway American politics and votes again. He has reduced himself to an American cabinet secretary - Secretary of Faith. It's a shame both for the Vatican and for the United States.

Remember that JFK said he would never let the Vatican control American politics, when asked by concerned citizens and reporters. Now, under W - a NON-Catholic at that - the Vatican has control over the American society.

All of this does nothing but further raise my contempt for the Catholics in particular, and for the Christians at large. And to think that I live in the most Catholic metropolitan area in the US!

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Polly Sigh,

I think I may have seen Mr. X this afternoon.

I was shopping in my local market, and a very distinguished looking gentleman appeared to have been following me slowly with his cart, and looking at me and my groceries.

He put two steaks in his cart, and a bottle of wine.

I noticed he was different, because, well, we don't have any distinguished looking gentlemen within 70 miles of here as the crow flies. I concluded, because of his silver gray hair and polished, sophisticated air, that he must have been your beloved "X", doing his job.

I hope you enjoyed your dinner and wine.

September 18, 2005
A Wimp on Genocide
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
President Bush doesn't often find common cause with Cuba, Zimbabwe, Iran, Syria and Venezuela. But this month the Bush administration joined with those countries and others to eviscerate a forthright U.N. statement that nations have an obligation to respond to genocide.

It was our own Axis of Medieval, and it reflected the feckless response of President Bush to genocide in Darfur. It's not that he favors children being tossed onto bonfires or teenage girls being gang-raped and mutilated, but he can't bother himself to try very hard to stop these horrors, either.

It's been a year since Mr. Bush - ahead of other world leaders, and to his credit - acknowledged that genocide was unfolding in Darfur. But since then he has used that finding of genocide not to spur action but to substitute for it.

Mr. Bush's position in the U.N. negotiations got little attention. But in effect the United States successfully blocked language in the declaration saying that countries have an "obligation" to respond to genocide. In the end the declaration was diluted to say that "We are prepared to take collective action ... on a case by case basis" to prevent genocide.

That was still an immensely important statement. But it's embarrassing that in the 21st century, we can't even accept a vague obligation to fight genocide as we did in the Genocide Convention of 1948. If the Genocide Convention were proposed today, President Bush apparently would fight to kill it.

I can't understand why Mr. Bush is soft on genocide, particularly because his political base - the religious right - has been one of the groups leading the campaign against genocide in Darfur. As the National Association of Evangelicals noted in a reproachful statement about Darfur a few days ago, the Bush administration "has made minimal progress protecting millions of victims of the world's worst humanitarian crisis."

Incredibly, the Bush administration has even emerged as Sudan's little helper, threatening an antigenocide campaigner in an effort to keep him quiet. Brian Steidle, a former Marine captain, served in Darfur as a military adviser - and grew heartsick at seeing corpses of children who'd been bludgeoned to death.

In March, I wrote a column about Mr. Steidle and separately published photos that he had taken of men, women and children hacked to death. Other photos were too wrenching to publish: one showed a pupil at the Suleia Girls School; she appeared to have been burned alive, probably after being raped, and her charred arms were still in handcuffs.

Mr. Steidle is an American hero for blowing the whistle on the genocide. But, according to Mr. Steidle, the State Department has ordered him on three occasions to stop showing the photos, for fear of complicating our relations with Sudan. Mr. Steidle has also been told that he has been blacklisted from all U.S. government jobs.

The State Department should be publicizing photos of atrocities to galvanize the international community against the genocide - not conspiring with Sudan to cover them up.

I'm a broken record on Darfur because I can't get out of my head the people I've met there. On my very first visit, 18 months ago, I met families who were hiding in the desert from the militias and soldiers. But the only place to get water was at the occasional well - where soldiers would wait to shoot the men who showed up, and rape the women. So anguished families sent their youngest children, 6 or 7 years old, to the wells with donkeys to fetch water - because they were least likely to be killed or raped. The parents hated themselves for doing this, but they had no choice - they had been abandoned by the world.

That's the cost of our passivity. Perhaps it's unfair to focus so much on Mr. Bush, for there are no neat solutions and he has done more than most leaders. He at least dispatched Condi Rice to Darfur this summer - which is more interest in genocide than the TV anchors have shown.

One group, www.beawitness.org, prepared a television commercial scolding the networks for neglecting the genocide - and affiliates of NBC, CBS and ABC all refused to run it.

Still, the failures of others do not excuse Mr. Bush's own unwillingness to speak out, to impose a no-fly zone, to appoint a presidential envoy or to build an international coalition to pressure Sudan. So, Mr. Bush, let me ask you just one question: Since you portray yourself as a bold leader, since you pride yourself on your willingness to use blunt terms like "evil" - then why is it that you're so wimpish on genocide?

E-mail: nicholas@nytimes.com

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: 'Those of us who know that America's worth fighting for have to take it back now from those who don't

SNIP

And 80 percent of Republicans are just Democrats who don't know what's going on.

SNIP

This is a long speech, but certainly worth the time and effort. I want him to come to my county and give a speech so that the Republicans here can understand what has happened to "their party" and to our country.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=22788&mode=nested&order=0

Good ammo for discussions with right-wingnuts...

Republicans’ Biggest Lies
The core values and mottos the right wing extremist Republicans (who have come to represent the norm in the republican party) define themselves with are lies that hide their opposite.

Go here ==> http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_rob_kall_050917_republicans__biggest.htm to read about these lies...
The Less Government lie
Protecting America
Anti Tax and Spend
Freedom from Regulations
Protecting Life and Faith Based
LOWER TAXES

Posted by: madame defarge at September 19, 2005 09:13 AM

add to that list:

Personal Responsibility
Fiscal Responsibility

"Compassionate conservative" says it all for me.

Nothing further your honor.

Looking for a Corpse to Make a Case
Senators look for a wealthy casualty of Katrina as evidence against the estate tax
By MASSIMO CALABRESI
Posted Saturday, Sep. 17, 2005

Federal troops aren't the only ones looking for bodies on the Gulf Coast. On Sept. 9, Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions called his old law professor Harold Apolinsky, co-author of Sessions' legislation repealing the federal estate tax, which was encountering sudden resistance on the Hill. Sessions had an idea to revitalize their cause, which he left on Apolinsky's voice mail: "(Arizona Sen.) Jon Kyl and I were talking about the estate tax. If we knew anybody that owned a business that lost life in the storm, that would be something we could push back with."

If legislative ambulance chasing looks like a desperate measure, for the backers of repealing the estate tax, these are desperate times. Just three weeks ago, their long-sought goal of repeal seemed within reach, but Katrina dashed their hopes when Republican leaders put off an expected vote. After hearing from Sessions, Apolinsky, an estate tax lawyer who says his firm includes three multi-billionaires among its clients, mobilized the American Family Business Institute, a Washington-based group devoted to estate tax repeal. They reached out to members along the Gulf Coast to hunt for the dead.

It's been hard. Only a tiny percentage of people are affected by the estate tax—in 2001 only 534 Alabamans were subject to it. And for Hill backers of repeal, that's only part of the problem. Last year, the tax brought in $24.8 billion to the federal government. With Katrina's cost soaring, estate tax opponents need to find a way to make up the potential lost income. For now, getting repeal back on the agenda may depend on Apolinsky and his team of estate-sniffing sleuths, who are searching Internet obituaries among other places. Has he found any victims of both the hurricane and the estate tax? "Not yet," Apolinsky says. "But I'm still looking."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1106213,...