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The Presidential Spokesidiot
After Jack Murtha took his brave stand yesterday calling for the immediate redeployment of US troops from Iraq, I expected to hear some stupidity among the various responses. I didn't expect that Scott McClellan would take the prize with this nugget of idiocy:
Congressman Murtha is a respected veteran and politician who has a record of supporting a strong America. So it is baffling that he is endorsing the policy positions of Michael Moore and the extreme liberal wing of the Democratic party.
Somebody needs to explain to Scott McClellan that this is precisely the point. It is no longer the extreme liberals who are calling for the redeployment of American troops from Iraq. It's the majority of the American public.
And while we are on the subject of the White House picking up the clue phone, someone might tell Karl Rove that the smear and fear campaign that worked in the 2004 presidential election, is no longer operational. Comparing people to Michael Moore, or implying that they are unpatriotic if they take a different stand than the President on the war, just isn't going to work.
Cindy Sheehan's August in Crawford, Texas awakened America to the imperial hubris and staggering incometence of this administration in its conduct of the Iraq War.
It doesn't appear that America will be going back to sleep any time soon.
Hmmm...maybe it's time for the America who fell for that "Michael Moore" stuff to actually go watch F 9-11 now.
One has to wonder if they'll realize their mistake in falling for the snotty bully on the playground stuff...
Just when you thought you were OUT of junior high school, leave it to Bush and the Republican neoCONS to take us right back to that immature mentality.
Chuck:
Not sure if Murtha proposed...its Murtha's statement at the press conference that got Hastert/Blunt (interchangeable) in a twitter. Will look to see if there was legislation proposed...
Sparrow:
No one said it was going to be easy to get the big rumbling dinosaur of big oil special interests to remove themselves from DC. In fact, the more virulent the response by Those Who Have Been Bought* means the more sold out they are.
Oh dear oh dear. Looks like some congresspeople are going to live permanently in the woodshed this year...
(* Pardon me, JK Rowling...I've got my ticket for "Potter" for the 6:30 show and I'm psyching myself up...)
Fe:
Understood. I may be turning in soon but I'll check in periodically -- I'd love to see the text. Professional curiousity, you know!
Chuck in Doha
Chuck:
I am such a doofus. Of course there is legislation proposed. Picked this up at Library of Congress:
H.J.RES.73
Title: To redeploy U. S. Forces from Iraq.
Sponsor: Rep Murtha, John P. [PA-12]
(introduced 11/17/2005) Cosponsors (None)
Latest Major Action: 11/17/2005 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the Committee on International Relations, and in addition to the Committee on Armed Services, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.
OFFICIAL TITLE AS INTRODUCED:
To redeploy U. S. Forces from Iraq.
NO OFFICIAL VERSION OF THE TEXT IS OUT AS OF YET.
More election shinanagons!
Breaking from Bradblog: Something very rotten suddenly occuring in CA
There are three breaking election reform stories here (or should we say election fraud stories). The last one is the one Einsteinia has been posting threads about for the past few weeks about alarming developments in CA. It becomes even more clear why they framed CA SOS Kevin Shelley, a true election rights hero, who was on Diebold like a bulldog, and replaced him with SOS McPherson, who is undoing Shelley's good work. Wonder who is behind that? Anyone care to take a guess?
From Brad:
Democracy Breakin': Ohio's Electric Boogaloo
More on Ohio's Staggeringly Impossible '05 Results
The Corporate Media Continues to Not Care, But a Rightwing Blogger Finally Does...
A followup with additional details on our previous story pointing to the inexplicable results of last week's Ohio election where half the state added Electronic Voting machines for the first time. The result was a remarkable defeat of a 4 Initiative Election Reform package that polls in the days before the election showed was on its way to passage on several of the measures. The inexplicable results all looked something this:
ISSUE 3 (Revise campaign contribution limits)
PRE-POLLING: 61% Yes, 25% No, 14% Undecided
FINAL RESULT: 33% Yes, 66% No
Full Story & the Rightwinger Who Now Finally "Gets It":
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002030.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bi-Partisan Co-Sponsors of Election Reform Bill Cite GAO Report on E-Voting Security in Letter to House Colleagues
Letter from Holt, Davis Points to Failures in Voting Machines Around the Country
Bill Has More than 150 Co-Sponsors, But Has Not Been Allowed to Come to Floor by House Leadership
FULL STORY & COMPLETE LETTER:
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002037.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
California Sec. of State Disbands Voting Panel, Leans Toward Reversal of Previous Stance Against Diebold!
Recertification Hearing on E-Voting Machines Changed at Last Minute, Participants Not Notified
JUST IN: Something very rotten suddenly seems to be occurring in the state of California! RAW STORY has the story, we explain it quickly...
URL: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002038.htm
---
Brad Friedman
THE BRAD BLOG - The uprising continues...
http://www.BradBlog.com
VELVET REVOLUTION - The revolution begins...
http://www.VelvetRevolution.us
I'VE JUST PHONED PELOSI'S OFFICE.
I said that if she cannot hold the caucus together for tonight's forced vote on the Republican-revised version of Murtha's Resolution, she should just take all the Congressional democrats out of the house and hold a press conference denouncing the republican's disengenuous "theatrics".
Anyone with Democratic representatives out there--please call them and encourage them to walk out if they need to, to prevent this foolish measure by Hastert and Thugs...
Bush turns to political base as war support wanes
18 Nov 2005 21:06:43 GMT
Source: Reuters
By Alan Elsner
WASHINGTON, Nov 18 (Reuters) - Fighting a decline in public support for the Iraq war and his own leadership, U.S. President George W. Bush and Republican allies have chosen to court his political base with a campaign-style offensive against Democrats.
The Republican National Committee on Friday unveiled a new television advertisement accusing Senate Democrats of dishonesty for turning against a war they originally supported, although polls show the broad U.S. public following a similar track from support to disillusionment.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N1892736.htm
FROM RAWSTORY:
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/GOP_pulls_tax_bill_and_calls_1118.html
GOP pulls tax bill and calls vote on Iraq pullout
House Republicans will call for a vote on the pullout on Iraq this evening after a call from hawkish Democrat Jack Murtha (D-PA) for the U.S. to immediately begin removing troops from Iraq, RAW STORY has learned.
Unlike the resolution Murtha proposed, which called for the removal of troops to begin immediately, the Republican resolution calls for all troops to be pulled out at once. Democrats say this dramatically changes the nature of Murtha's original proposal.
The following email went out earlier from the office of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi to members of her caucus. Democrats have now received a copy of the GOP resolution.
Murtha will be the only Democrat speaking on the floor during the debate, a spokesperson for House Democratic Whip Rep. Steny Hoyer (D-MD) told RAW STORY.
The resolution is available in PDF version here:
http://rawstory.com/other/pdfs/GOPpulloutrawstory.pdf
The House will reconvene shortly. The Tax Reconciliation Act HAS BEEN PULLED, however, the Republican Leadership is bringing to the floor THEIR VERSION of Mr. Murtha's Iraq Resolution H.J.Res 73. Under the procedure, the following debate and votes will occur:
One hour of debate on the Martial Law Rule as amended to make in order a version of the H.J.Res.73 - Murtha Resolution, which we have NOT SEEN, followed by a vote.
VOTE ON MARTIAL LAW RULE
One hour of debate on the Rule to consider THEIR VERSION of the Murtha Resolution.
VOTE ON THE RULE
One hour of debate on THEIR VERSION of the Murtha Resolution
VOTE ON THE RESOLUTION
Here's my take on the Kerry/Murtha disagreement on troop withdrawl:
The important thing is this - the conversation has now turned to when we will withdraw. A little disagreement within the party is good at this point, because it shows that people are independent minded. But it also shows that withdrawl is on everyone's mind. It's on the doves' minds and it's on the hawks' minds, and it's on the American people's minds. And that is where we want the discussion to be.
And Bush, Cheney, and McClellan look like a bunch of idiots because it isn't on their minds. And that is right where we want them to be.
I think it is definitely a turn toward home.
Moore's response to McClellan
November 17th, 2005 10:47 pm
Statement by Michael Moore on the Bush Administration's Statement
STATEMENT BY MICHAEL MOORE
Unfortunately, the President doesn't understand that it is mainstream middle America who has turned against him and his immoral war and that it is I and the Democrats who represent the mainstream. It is Mr. Bush who is the extremist.
November 18, 2005
Associate of Lobbyist Charged as Part of Corruption Scheme
By ANNE E. KORNBLUT and MARIA NEWMAN
WASHINGTON, Nov. 19 - Michael P.S. Scanlon, a business associate of the lobbyist Jack Abramoff, was charged today with conspiring to defraud Indian tribes of millions of dollars as part of a corruption scheme that included at least one member of Congress.
Mr. Scanlon, formerly the spokesman for Representative Tom DeLay, sought to "corruptly offer and provide things of value, including money, meals, trips and entertainment to federal public officials" in exchange for help with legislation and other favors, according to legal papers filed today.
The court document singled out one lawmaker, referring to him as "representative #1," as the chief recipient of lavish gifts from Mr. Scanlon and his partner. Representative Bob Ney, Republican of Ohio, has been subpoenaed in the case and the description in the indictment matches public accounts of his work with the lobbyists.
Mr. Ney has proclaimed his innocence, saying he was tricked into doing favors for Mr. Scanlon and Mr. Abramoff.
Brian J. Walsh, a spokesman for Mr. Ney, said the congressman would cooperate fully with investigators.
"He has not been told that he is the target of any investigation and there would be no grounds to do so," Mr. Walsh said in a statement. "Mr. Scanlon's being charged with lying to and cheating his clients does not change that."
Today's action came in what is called a criminal information filing, rather than an indictment, a legal distinction that often means prosecutors have reached a plea agreement with a defendant.
A Justice Department spokesman, Bryan Sierra, told The Associated Press that a hearing has been scheduled for Monday in Mr. Scanlon's case, but he provided no other details.
Investigators from several law enforcement agencies have been pursuing accusations that Mr. Abramoff and Mr. Scanlon defrauded several Indian tribes that paid them about $80 million for four years of work.
The inquiry has had repercussions across Washington because of Mr. Abramoff's and Mr. Scanlon's close ties to Mr. DeLay, who stepped down from his leadership post after being charged with violating campaign finance law in Texas.
One Bush administration official, David Safavian, the head of procurement at the Office of Management and Budget, was forced to resign in September after he was charged with lying to investigators about assistance he gave to Mr. Abramoff and obstructing a federal inquiry involving the lobbyist. The month before, a federal grand jury in Florida indicted Mr. Abramoff on charges of fraud and conspiracy stemming from his purchase of a fleet of gambling boats in 2000.
In the case of Mr. Scanlon, today's filing alleges that "Lobbyist A," who is not identified, solicited an Indian tribe in Mississippi in 1995 to provide lobbying services on taxes and other issues relating to tribal sovereignty.
The lobbyist then recommended that the tribe hire Mr. Scanlon's company, Capital Campaign Strategies, while concealing the fact the Lobbyist A would receive 50 percent of the profits from the tribe's payment to Mr. Scanlon, according to the document.
The Mississippi tribe paid Mr. Scanlon's firm $14.8 million from June 2001 through April 2004, while Mr. Scanlon concealed from the tribe that 50 percent of the profit "was kicked back to Lobbyist A pursuant to their secret arrangement," the court papers said.
Anne E. Kornblut reported from Washington for this article, and Maria Newman from New York.
Posted by: Fe at November 18, 2005 04:39 PM
Great idea! Call your representatives. Also, American Friends Service Committee just sent out this email asking everyone to sign their letter of support for Rep. Murtha's & his resolution; they will send it to your Congress members. Please follow the link and pass this on to everyone you know. Thanks.
Yesterday, Representative John Murtha made a highly publicized call for a change in direction in Iraq policy. Representative Murtha is a Vietnam combat veteran, the ranking Democrat on the House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee, and someone whose opinion is valued by the Defense community and military families.
The White House said it was "baffled" by Rep. Murtha's call for a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq within six months. Let Congress know that there is nothing baffling about Rep. Murtha's stand.
Follow the link below to let Congress know that you are heartened by Representative Murtha's call for a change in direction in Iraq.
http://support.afsc.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&page=UserAction&id=124
Representative Murtha showed real leadership, including owning his accountability for sending Americans to war. In his speech, he said:
Iraq cannot be won "militarily." I said two years ago, the key to progress in Iraq is to Iraqitize, Internationalize and Energize. I believe the same today. But I have concluded that the presence of U.S. troops in Iraq is impeding this progress.
Because we in Congress are charged with sending our sons and daughters into battle, it is our responsibility, our obligation to speaking out for them. That's why I am speaking out.
Our military has done everything that has been asked of them, the U.S. can not accomplish anything further in Iraq militarily. It is time to bring them home.
This is an important statement from an influential member of Congress. The Administration and the Republican leadership reacted immediately trying to pigeon-hole Representative Murtha's position as "fringe."
Please email your Senators and Representative to let them know that you're not baffled by John Murtha, but rather that you are pleased to see such a show of leadership.
http://support.afsc.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage&page=UserAction&id=124
For Peace,
The Wage Peace Campaign Team
Ya know, when I was a kid, I remember watching the network evening news, back when there were only 3 networks, and hearing about "right wing religious extremists and fanatics", but they were in the Middle East.
Never in a zillion years did I think MY country would be ruled by right wing religious extremists.
Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you vote.
Never in a zillion years did I think MY country would be ruled by right wing religious extremists.
...
Posted by: monkey at November 18, 2005 04:58 PM
Monkey:
They're the "Murkin Taliban"
Matt:
This is for you:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051118/ap_on_re_eu/vatican_evolution
Vatican Official Refutes Intelligent Design By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer
10 minutes ago
VATICAN CITY - The Vatican's chief astronomer said Friday that "intelligent design" isn't science and doesn't belong in science classrooms, the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.
The Rev. George Coyne, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, said placing intelligent design theory alongside that of evolution in school programs was "wrong" and was akin to mixing apples with oranges.
"Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be," the ANSA news agency quoted Coyne as saying on the sidelines of a conference in Florence. "If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."
His comments were in line with his previous statements on "intelligent design" — whose supporters hold that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.
Proponents of intelligent design are seeking to get public schools in the United States to teach it as part of the science curriculum. Critics say intelligent design is merely creationism — a literal reading of the Bible's story of creation —camouflaged in scientific language, and they say it does not belong in science curriculum.
In a June article in the British Catholic magazine The Tablet, Coyne reaffirmed God's role in creation, but said science explains the history of the universe.
"If they respect the results of modern science, and indeed the best of modern biblical research, religious believers must move away from the notion of a dictator God or a designer God, a Newtonian God who made the universe as a watch that ticks along regularly."
Rather, he argued, God should be seen more as an encouraging parent.
"God in his infinite freedom continuously creates a world that reflects that freedom at all levels of the evolutionary process to greater and greater complexity," he wrote. "He is not continually intervening, but rather allows, participates, loves."
The Vatican Observatory, which Coyne heads, is one of the oldest astronomical research institutions in the world. It is based in the papal summer residence at Castel Gandolfo south of Rome.
Last week, Pope Benedict XVI waded indirectly into the evolution debate by saying the universe was made by an "intelligent project" and criticizing those who in the name of science say its creation was without direction or order.
Questions about the Vatican's position on evolution were raised in July by Austrian Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn.
In a New York Times column, Schoenborn seemed to back intelligent design and dismissed a 1996 statement by Pope John Paul II that evolution was "more than just a hypothesis." Schoenborn said the late pope's statement was "rather vague and unimportant."
Hmmm
A Harris poll released Friday put Bush's overall approval rating at 34 percent, the latest in a string of all-time lows during his presidency. ***Over two-thirds said the country was headed in the wrong direction.***
Bush fights waning support for war
http://today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-11-18T212558Z_01_SCH876005_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAQ-USA.xml
One year after the "mandate"
"mandate"
Haven't heard that one for a while...
geez, even the Vatican gets it....what is with these ideologues?
I have been reading Constantine’s Sword by James Carroll- does not paint a nice picture of Christianity as it has played out over the years...makes the current Muslim issues pale in comparision....
CSPAN 1 House of Repersentatives
Shouting, wild disorder
Posted by: aimzzz at November 18, 2005 05:29 PM
Are we talking about Jeff Gannon again?
Rep Jim McGovern
Dems likely to vote against resolution because it doesn't allow for orderly transition. This resolution demeans the soldiers and the families that have lost loved ones-- it politicizes the war. We need a real, thorough, honest debate on this war.
CSPAN 1 RealPlayer link:
http://play.rbn.com/?url=cspan/g2cspan/live/cspan1-g2.rm&proto=rtsp
Cyrano at November 18, 2005 05:36 PM
it's ongoing
MORE ON THE GOP PHONY IRAQ PULLOUT:
Late Update:
During the debate, Jean Schmidt (R-OH) came on the floor and read a letter purporting to be from a United States Marine which said something to the effect of "Please tell Murtha, cowards cut and run, Marines never do." The House burst into yells and pandemonium. Schmidt remarks was forced to come back to the House floor and ask that her remarks be stricken from the record. This is the woman, remember, who barely beat Hackett just months ago.
-- Josh Marshall
House is now voting about whether the Republican resolution can be voted on the same day that it was introduced-- As usual-- pugs* of that party are trying to skirt the rules
*Pugs are defined as an obnoxious subgroup of the Republican party
Fe,
Schmidt's voice mail is full. Surprised?
1-202-225-3164
re Representative Duncan & his asssociates: are these people grown-ups? They are Representatives elected to represent us in the Federal Government.
* reaches for airsick bag
Posted by: aimzzz at November 18, 2005 05:26 PM
34% and sliding lower............
Posted by: Fe at November 18, 2005 05:17 PM
Coyne is a Jesuit. They're the intellectuals in the Catholic Church. John Adams didn't like them, but perhaps they were harder to take in the late 18th-early 19th centuries than in the middle 1970s.
The Pug* motion to suspend the rules passed :P
*Pugs are defined as an obnoxious subgroup of the Republican party
That's too bad, because they are sliming Murtha and attempting to make him look like a radical fool.
It is sure to backfire.
He spoke with alot of conviction yesterday.
One encouraging thought:
The neocons continue to play the same hand. Same old tricks, same old....same old.
America is saying that dog won't hunt. And that's all they've got?
I don't think they're neocons-- they're just mean-spirited, small-minded people
Duncan Hunter isn't a neocon-- not that I'm defending neocons-- it's just a thing that arises from bitter-hearted folk that got themselves some power
House debate temporarily shifted to Flood Insurance-- will return to Iraq resolution later tonight
Jewish Group Asks Bush to Start War's End
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/11/18/national/a142251S12.DTL
Friday, November 18, 2005
(11-18) 14:22 PST HOUSTON, (AP) --
About 2,000 representatives of the Union for Reform Judaism asked the Bush administration Friday to provide a clear exit strategy for the war in Iraq and begin to bring some soldiers home in mid-December.
The 1.5-million member organization of the most liberal of the three major branches of Judaism voted almost unanimously for the resolution at its Houston convention, spokeswoman Emily Grotta said.
"The sentiment was clear and overwhelming," Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie, union president, said in a statement. "American Jews, and all Americans, are profoundly critical of this war and they want this administration to tell us how and when it will bring our troops home."
The resolution also asks for a bipartisan independent commission to study the lesson's learned from the war, and condemns "in the strongest possible terms" the abuse of detainees in U.S. custody.
Letter from John Kerry:
This is our moment of truth. You and I have to make it absolutely clear that we won't stand for Republican "Swift Boat" style attacks on Jack Murtha.
Yesterday, an extraordinary congressman, former Marine Drill Sergeant and decorated Vietnam veteran, spoke out on the war in Iraq. He didn't come to that moment lightly. He spoke his mind and spoke his heart out of love for his country and support for our troops. No sooner had the words left his lips than the vicious assault on his character and patriotism began.
Today, in a statement on the Senate floor, in interviews with the national media, and in this message to you, I am seeking out every opportunity to defend a brave American hero that the Republican attack machine has set their sights on.
I urge you to do the same. Whether you agree or disagree with Jack Murtha is irrelevant. These despicable attacks on Jack Murtha's patriotism and courage must be met with an enormous public outcry. Call your local talk radio show, write a letter to the editor, phone your members of Congress - join me in acting now to reject these "Swift Boat" style attacks on Jack Murtha.
It disgusts me that a bunch of guys who have never put on the uniform of their country have aimed their venom at a marine who served America heroically in Vietnam and has been serving heroically in Congress ever since. No matter what J.D. Hayworth says, there is no sterner stuff than the backbone and courage that defines Jack Murtha's character and conscience.
Dennis Hastert -- the Speaker of the House who never served -- accused Jack Murtha of being a coward. Well let me tell you, Jack Murtha wasn't a coward when he put himself in harm's way for his country in Vietnam and earned two purple hearts -- he was a patriot then, and he is a patriot today. Jack Murtha's courage in combat earned him a Bronze Star, and his voice should be heard, not silenced by those who still today cut and run from the truth.
Instead of letting his cronies run their mouths, the President for once should stop his allies from doing to Jack Murtha what he set them loose to do to John McCain in South Carolina and Max Cleland in Georgia.
The President should finally find the courage to debate the real issue instead of destroying anyone who speaks truth to power as they see it. It's time for Americans to stand up, fight back, and make it clear it's unacceptable to do this to any leader of any party anywhere in our country.
I urge you to join today in a massive public outcry that rejects the attempt to demonize and destroy anyone who dares to disagree with George W. Bush's aimless "stay for as long as it takes" policy on Iraq.
Please act now. Call and email your elected officials. Flood talk radio with calls rejecting these vicious smear tactics. Send a letter to the editor. Express your outrage about the tired old Rovian "Swift Boat" style attacks on Jack Murtha.
John Kerry
Got the Note from TPM: He says-"It Gets Worse"
GOP Lawmakers Float Ethics Probe of Murtha
By John Bresnahan
Roll Call Staff
Friday, Nov. 18
Republican lawmakers say that ties between Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.) and his brother’s lobbying firm, KSA Consulting, may warrant investigation by the House ethics committee.
I think the House Republicans have gone insane.
Posted by: Fe at November 18, 2005 07:19 PM
WHAT?
These same people who REFUSE to investigate the DSM and IF the thief in chief lied to start a way?
Oh..yeh...starting wars on lies isn't an ethical problem, is it?
This behavior is bizarre at best...
If they are able to discredit a hero, the Bush régime actions and policies are legitimate
CSPAN 1 is replaying parts of today's House debate while waiting for tonight's debate to resume
WASHINGTON (AP) - House Republicans maneuvered for swift rejection Friday of any notion of immediately pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq, sparking a nasty, sometimes personal debate over the war and a Democratic lawmaker's own call for withdrawal.
Furious Democrats accused the GOP of orchestrating a political stunt, leaving little time for debate and changing the meaning of a withdrawal resolution offered by Democratic Rep. John Murtha of Pennsylvania.
For those reasons, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi sent word to rank-and-file Democrats to vote - with the Republicans - against immediate withdrawal of American troops.
Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said of the nonbinding resolution, "We want to make sure that we support our troops that are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. We will not retreat."
Democrats went to the floor to denounce the vote, being staged before Congress left Washington for a two week break. And they gave Murtha a standing ovation as he entered the chamber Friday during the Iraq debate and took his customary corner seat.
"This is a personal attack on one of the best members, one of the most respected members of this House and it is outrageous," said Rep. Jim McGovern, D-Mass.
Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, responded: "This is not a stunt. This is not an attack on an individual. This is a legitimate question."
GOP leaders decided to act little more than 24 hours after Murtha, a hawkish Democrat with close ties to the military, said the time had come to pull out the troops.
By forcing the issue to a vote, Republicans tried to place many Democrats in a politically unappealing position - whether to side with Murtha and expose themselves to criticism, or oppose him and risk angering the voters that polls show want an end to the conflict.
But Democrats claimed the effort had backfired because their party members planned to vote against withdrawal - and the GOP version of Murtha's resolution.
Murtha offered a resolution that would force the president to withdraw the nearly 160,000 troops in Iraq "at the earliest practicable date." It would establish a quick-reaction force and a nearby presence of Marines in the region. It also said the U.S. must pursue stability in Iraq through diplomacy.
But House Republicans planned to put to a vote - and reject - their own symbolic alternative resolution that simply said: "It is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately."
With stinging rhetoric, Democrats criticized the GOP alternative. They said House Republican leaders killed Murtha's thoughtful approach.
The fiery, emotional debate climaxed when Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio, the most junior member of the House, told of a phone call she received from a Marine colonel.
"He asked me to send Congress a message - stay the course. He also asked me to send Congressman Murtha a message - that cowards cut and run, Marines never do," Schmidt said.
Democrats booed and shouted her down - causing the House to come to a standstill.
Rep. Harold Ford, D-Tenn., charged across the chamber's center aisle screaming that it was an uncalled for personal attack. "You guys are pathetic. Pathetic," yelled Rep. Marty Meehan, D-Mass.
C-SPAN 1: Coverage of the Pug's Iraq resolution RESUMING NOW. A Dem from TX requested that each House member be allowed 5 minutes to speak to the measure. He appears to have been ignored.
CSPAN 1 RealPlayer link:
http://play.rbn.com/?url=cspan/g2cspan/live/cspan1-g2.rm&proto=rtsp
Posted by: monkey at November 18, 2005 07:48 PM
Monkey,
Remember "I'm a uniter, not a divider"? This scene just breaks my heart - all of this stuff does lately.
How far have we fallen? How can people like this? How can they agree with these people?
AHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Carol,
That's what I thought too.
Divide and conquer, Divide and conquer, Divide and conquer...has been their motto for the last 15 years.
They've succeeded at the division part. The conquer part...well...we're here kicking and fighting!
Sparrow -
We ARE kicking and fighting - that's good. Boy - they must have really been scared by Murtha speaking out. God bless that man. Our guys better stick to their guns on this - the fight has just begun!
Watch Jean Schmidt in action:
http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/schmidt.320.240.mov.html
What a *itch! (insert your own consonant)
Carol,
That's as evil as those stupid purple bandaids.
When will everyone catch on that those neoCONs are all talk no action?
Check out firedoglake on this. They've got it right. It doesn't take too long to google her records to find out she never served in war either.
http://www.firedoglake.blogspot.com
Crash Burn
by Blues Traveler
I’m gonna ride you
Gonna ride you out like a witch on a broom
I’m gonna ride you
Gonna ride you out like a witch on a broom
It’s the old give and take
And I’ve been took again
So give me room
I’m gonna watch you
Gonna watch you fall like a tower of cards
I’m gonna watch you
Gonna watch you fall like a tower of cards
Gonna land gonna land gonna land gonna land
No matter how hard
Crash
Burn
When will I learn
Send Rep. Murtha a letter and tell him how much you respect him and that you'll stand by him. I'm so frigging sick of the nasty politics right now, I'm spitting tacks...
http://democrats.org/page/petition/shameonthem
Posted by: madame defarge at November 18, 2005 08:41 PM
Sick of the fighting?
Some of the other blogs are talking about the House meltdown as if it's the playoffs in the National Hockey League or the World Wide Wrestling Federation.
My note to Rep. Murtha:
You are a true Patriot sir, and you must have really put the fear of God in them. No matter what they say, please remember that you spoke your conscience, you spoke the truth, and you stood up for what is right and true and real. And because of all of that, you can hold your head high. You are a fine man. God bless your courage.
For a REAL message from a soldier (Jean Schmidt should read this)
http://misoldierthoughts.blogspot.com/
Oh, the theatrics!
To think we are paying these babies for wasting everyone's time, and playing children's games when we would rather they be men.
I am writing Murtha. While it was turned in to a circus tonight, he has begun a vital trend to lead us out of war.
He is a good man. I doubt he will cease his comments.
Now comes the spin......of course they will give one liners to the court of public opinion, based on, once again, deception.
They think they will lessen the impact of Wurtha's declaration by forcing a vote without strategy and accountability tonight. They think they will win the allegiance of a somber and weary public by piling manure on them, and deceiving them with half truths.
It is the trend that counts. We're on our way.
Fitzgerald sees new grand jury proceedings
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2005-11-18T193521Z_01_SCH860443_RTRUKOC_0_US-BUSH-LEAK.xml
A good basic summary:
House GOP Seeks Quick Veto of Iraq Pullout
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/11/18/national/w143646S21.DTL&type=printable
FROM HER SITE
Pelosi to Republican Colleagues: ‘You Can’t Handle the Truth’
Washington, D.C. – House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi today spoke late this evening in strong opposition to a sham Republican proposal to smear Congressman John Murtha of Pennsylvania, who has proposed immediate redeployment of troops from Iraq. Below are Pelosi’s remarks on the House floor:
"Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise as the proud representative of the city of San Francisco in the Congress of the United States. In Northern California, we treat our veterans with respect. But Mr. Murtha is not being treated as a distinguished veteran with respect here.
"Mr. Speaker, this is a sad day for this House of Representatives. Just when you think you have seen it all, the Republican majority has stooped to a new low, even for them. They have engaged in an act of deception that undermines any shred of dignity that might be left in this Republican Congress.
"But deception has been the order of the day throughout the entire Iraq engagement. Mr. Hunter’s resolution is a continuation of that deception. It is a political stunt and should it be rejected by this House.
"The Republican deception today is a disgrace. It is a disservice to our country and to our men and women in uniform. They, and the American people, deserve better.
"It is an insult to the integrity of Jack Murtha: one of the most distinguished Members to ever serve in the House of Representatives. As has been said, Jack Murtha is a decorated war veteran: two Purple Hearts, the Bronze star for his combat service, the Vietnam Cross of Gallantry, 37 years in active and reserve service in the Marines. His lifetime motto has been, ‘Semper Fi,’ and yet our Republican colleagues call him a coward and accuse him of cooperating with the enemy.
"As the senior Democrat on the Defense Appropriations Committee, he is known and respected for his bipartisanship. That is why the Republican attack on him is so dishonest.
"Mr. Murtha has dealt the mighty blow of truth to the President’s failed Iraq policy. The American people have rallied to Jack Murtha’s message of truth. But [to Republican colleagues] ‘you can’t handle the truth.’ Why are the Republicans so afraid of the facts?
"Mr. Speaker, during World War II, the Republican Senator from Ohio, Robert Taft, who would become the Republican Leader of the Senate said, ‘Criticism in a time of war is essential to the maintenance of any democratic government.’ Indeed, Mr. Murtha’s action to speak truth to power is a great act of patriotism.
"As one who has always had the interests of America’s men and women in uniform as his top priority, Mr. Murtha has acted as he always does – in their interests. Let us all join him in saluting our troops for their courage, patriotism, and the sacrifice they are willing to make for our country – and thank Mr. Murtha for his loyalty to them."
Bush: U.S. to stay in Iraq fight until victory
BUSAN, South Korea (CNN) -- In a speech before U.S. troops who stand watch along the Korean frontier, President Bush on Saturday offered his latest rebuttal to Democratic calls to bring U.S. troops home from Iraq, vowing to "stay in the fight until we have achieved the victory our brave troops have fought for."
"In Washington, there are some who say that the sacrifice is too great, and they urge us to set a date for withdrawal before we have completed our mission," Bush said Saturday. "Those who are in the fight know better."
"So long as I am commander-in-chief, our strategy in Iraq will be driven by the sober judgment of our military commanders on the ground," he said, adding that U.S. troops are "making steady progress" in training Iraqi forces to defend their country.
"As Iraqis stand up, we will stand down," he said.
The president also made the argument that the U.S. operation in Iraq is part of "our work for peace and freedom," which involves "great sacrifice by our troops."
"We are helping the Iraqi people erect a working democracy in the heart of the Middle East," Bush said.
Recalling the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, which he said launched America's war on terror, he said, "we will not wait to be attacked again. We will not rest or tire until the war on terror is won."
... and within 24 hrs...
Defense official: Rumsfeld given Iraq withdrawal plan
Plan calls for troops to begin pulling out after December elections
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The top U.S. commander in Iraq has submitted a plan to the Pentagon for withdrawing troops in Iraq, according to a senior defense official.
Gen. George Casey submitted the plan to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. It includes numerous options and recommends that brigades -- usually made up of about 2,000 soldiers each -- begin pulling out of Iraq early next year.
The proposal comes as tension grows in both Washington and Baghdad following a call by a senior House Democrat to bring U.S. troops home and the deaths of scores of people by suicide bombers in two Iraqi cities.
Rumsfeld has yet to sign Casey's withdrawal plan but, the senior defense official said, implementation of the plan, if approved, would start after the December 15 Iraqi elections so as not to discourage voters from going to the polls.
The plan, which would withdraw a limited amount of troops during 2006, requires that a host of milestones be reached before troops are withdrawn.
Top Pentagon officials have repeatedly discussed some of those milestones: Iraqi troops must demonstrate that they can handle security without U.S. help; the country's political process must be strong; and reconstruction and economic conditions must show signs of stability.
Wow, Monkey. If only they'll listen to General Casey. Could it be?
Just finished reading the blog and checking out a few of the links...
What did they add to the water in Congress yesterday? Just amazing...
Posted by: monkey at November 19, 2005 08:40 AM
I wonder WHEN Casey gave Rumsfeld the plan for withdrawal. If it hasn't been recently, like in the last 2 or 3 days, Rumsfeld is probably ignoring it.
Last night after watching the theatrics in the House, I accidentally flipped to Faux, to see a talking head with alot of hate and bitterness in his manner say regarding the "vote" last night in the House to veto bringing the troops immediately home without planning or strategy "History has been made tonight - this is a very big statement to the people of the United States."
This morning again the right is spinning it to be a very huge deal. They are liars.
News: Nation / World
House votes down immediate pullout from Iraq
print | email this story
By LIZ SIDOTI | Associated Press
November 19, 2005
WASHINGTON - The Republican-controlled House spurned calls for an immediate pullout of troops from Iraq in a vote hastily arranged by the GOP that Democrats vociferously denounced as politically motivated.
http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/35278.html
Well... if General Casey says to start pulling out next year, but Bush says we won't do that until things are going well, and many republicans talked last night about the steady progress being made... I guess one can conclude that things must be going pretty darn well over there.
Anyone else think that? ;-)
Roger.
They must be going peachy well.
I wore out my welcome in the irc already?
I can't log in again.
Is it down?
Ok..it let me in now...never mind.
Here is Kerry on abc. (I think he did a great job explaining WHY it's not unpatriotic to demand withdrawal. And he lays the "endangering the troops" right on BushCo. where the blame belongs.)
Sadly, the media didn't allow kerry this clear message prior to Nov. 2, 2004.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=1328763
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.ad...S00010000000001
''It is irresponsible for Democrats to now claim that we misled them and the American people.''
-- President Bush, Nov. 14
Do you think the White House misled the public in its case for war?
Yes 74%
No 26%
Total Votes: 65,569 Note on Poll Results
''To question your government is not unpatriotic -- to not question your government is unpatriotic.''
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel, D-Neb., Nov. 15
Do you approve of the way the U.S. is handling the Iraq War?
No 82%
Yes 18%
Total Votes: 33,946 Not
''The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone -- but we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history.''
-- Vice President Cheney, Nov. 16
Do congressmen who voted for the war have a right to question it now?
Yes 85%
No 15%
Total Votes: 33,831 Note
''The war in Iraq is not going as advertised. It is a flawed policy wrapped in illusion.''
-- Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., Nov. 17
Do you think it is time to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq?
Yes 71%
No 29%
Total Votes: 33,370 Note on
Lawmakers Erupt in Heated War Debate
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111905Z.shtml
Republicans and Democrats shouted, howled and slung insults on the House floor on Friday as a debate over whether to withdraw American troops from Iraq descended into a fury over President Bush's handling of the war and a leading Democrat's call to bring the troops home.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY didn't the Dems call the bluff of the neoCons and vote to bring the troops home immediately?!?!?!? Tsk, tsk, tsk... that's a tactical error that will come back to haunt the Dems who are up for re-election in '06, since they will be accused of wanting the illegal, unjustified, immoral, and unethical Iraq war to continue.... The neoCon candidates will call those Dems warmongering hawks.... and it will lose elections for Dems in '06, IMHO.
"Stay the course?!?" WHAT course?!? Attacking Iraq had no course or objective other than to control Iraq's oil (per PNAC and for the sake of the monstrous ego of The Cretin).... If people aren't aware of THAT unpleasant truth by now, they have been in a coma since 2000.
WHY are prominent Dems promoting a "phased withdrawal?!?" Staying the course and phasing a withdrawal will NEVER happen while The Cretin is pResident will only get more of our people and Iraqi people killed.... While The Cretin is pResident there will only be token training of Iraqi troops to keep order once we pull out, and untrained troops to keep order between religious factions in Iraq will be the justification for keeping a US military presence in Iraq. (Weren't Iraqi military personnel trained before The Cretin ordered the invasion? Why the imperialistic tone on the part of US war-makers that makes Iraqi people helpless and backward children who need to be told what to do???)
By implication, I can only surmise that some prominent Dems are receiving a lot of PAC money from big oil companies, and that's why they are advocating such a slow withdrawal (or no withdrawal) of troops from Iraq, and that's why they have been acting like scared little submissive puppies without a voice since 2000....
Well, they'll figure it out when they lose elections next year....
NonnyO,
It's classic Rove to put the opposition in lose-lose positions. He does it at every turn.
From Aimzzz's link above:
"Murtha has proposed his own resolution that would force the president to withdraw the nearly 160,000 troops in Iraq "at the earliest practicable date." It would establish a quick-reaction force and a nearby presence of Marines in the region. It also said the U.S. must pursue stability in Iraq through diplomacy.
The Republican alternative simply said: "It is the sense of the House of Representatives that the deployment of United States forces in Iraq be terminated immediately." "
They couldn't in any good conscience vote for the Republican alternative. It would have left our troops to be slaughtered as they withdrew, was one explanation coming from the floor last night.
Now they spin, spin away.....We need to clarify, and clarify quick and strong, IMO.
Three steps forward, one step back.
here's an interesting post I read:
Reading PO'd American's posting it's an interesting coincidence that senior Chinese and Palestinian defense officials were victims of the Jordanian bombing.
Add to that Keith Olberman's report on the correlation of terror alerts and embarrassing Republican incidents which need to be kept out of the news.
I agree with Dee Dee Myers assertion that given a choice between conspiracy and chaos we should pick chaos, but I am beginning to wonder if there are any limits on what people will do to move their political agenda forward.
An American journalist reported Iraqi election fraud so blatant that they have tape of one man openly filling out seven ballots. I doubt any Iraqi believes they will end up with a freely elected government.
With permanent American bases and a puppet regime installed, I don't think any Iraqi will believe we've helped them achieve a new statehood. Which will mean an ongoing and probably growing insurgency and a weak defense.
Only by the US pulling out will the Iraqi people ever believe that they should come together and work for a united Iraq.
They're a 5,000 year old civilization and the idea that they can only make it with American training wheels is both arrogant and absurd.
Posted by: Dons Blog at November 19, 2005 03:35 PM
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001096.html
this is the post he was responding to:
You got Proof Bush lied? Present the documents. He'll lose support from everyone. If you don't, shut your pie hole!"
Trailers Of Mass Destruction, Part Two..."You remember when [Secretary of State] Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons....They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two.* And we'll find more weapons as time goes on, But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong. We found them." (italics ours) --WP, "Bush: 'We Found' Banned Weapons. President Cites Trailers in Iraq as Proof, " May 31, 2003
*At the time of this statement, no such weapons were found, and no such weapons have been found to this day. On this point as well as the use of the captured trailers as biolabs, the WP said this in the above article: "U.S. authorities have to date made no claim of a confirmed finding of an actual nuclear, biological or chemical weapon. In the interview, Bush said weapons had been found, but in elaborating, he mentioned only the trailers, which the CIA has concluded were likely used for production of biological weapons." There was no statement of fact, there was no smoking gun. The CIA's finding was advanced as an opinion based on its own particular process of elimination, and it was immediately challenged by both U.S. and U.K. intelligence analysts who had seen the trailers. --Politex, 08.09.03 (italics ours)
Now comes this..."Engineering experts from the Defense Intelligence Agency have come to believe that the most likely use for two mysterious trailers found in Iraq was to produce hydrogen for weather balloons rather than to make biological weapons, government officials say.
The classified findings by a majority of the engineering experts differ from the view put forward in a white paper made public on May 28 by the C.I.A. and the Defense Intelligence Agency, which said that the trailers were ["likely used"] for making biological weapons....
The State Department's intelligence branch, which was not invited to take part in the initial review, disputed the findings in a memorandum on June 2. The fact that American and British intelligence analysts with direct access to the evidence were disputing the claims included in the C.I.A. white paper was first reported in June, along with the analysts' concern that the evaluation of the mobile units had been marred by a rush to judgment." --NYT, 08.09.03
President Bush, speaking to the nation this month about the need to challenge Saddam Hussein, warned that Iraq has a growing fleet of unmanned aircraft that could be used "for missions targeting the United States."
Last month, asked if there were new and conclusive evidence of Hussein's nuclear weapons capabilities, Bush cited a report by the International Atomic Energy Agency saying the Iraqis were "six months away from developing a weapon." And last week, the president said objections by a labor union to having customs officials wear radiation detectors has the potential to delay the policy "for a long period of time."
All three assertions were powerful arguments for the actions Bush sought. And all three statements were dubious, if not wrong. Further information revealed that the aircraft lack the range to reach the United States; there was no such report by the IAEA; and the customs dispute over the detectors was resolved long ago. --10.22.02, Washington Post
http://bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm
Posted by: Pissed Off American at November 19, 2005 02:47 PM
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/001096.html