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What If...
I recently saw the "Chronicles of Narnia" movie with my kid -- somewhat against my will, because of the recent reviews from the religious right praising the film. Much to my surprise, I enjoyed the film.
As a child reading about the adventures in Narnia, I remember burying myself in the magic of the imaginary land and its inhabitants. I remember believing in triumph of good over evil, in love over hate. Such is the innocence of a childhood analysis and interpretation. I did not associate the story with religious teachings, even if it was C.S. Lewis's intent. If anything, I remember equating the moral message with what I knew of the history and lessons of World War I and II.
Instead I found spiritual lessons in other books I read, specifically "The Education of Little Tree" by Forrest Carter. It taught me to get in touch with my own spiritual existence, to question and follow my own conscience as my moral guide, to co-exist and accept others who are different, to honor and respect both the natural spiritual and physical world. As an adult, I found much the same message in "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn.
But this is not meant to be a film or book review essay. Instead, my point is to wonder -- with your indulgence -- what if the story of "The Lion, the Witch, & the Wardrobe" had ended when the White Witch killed Aslan, in accordance with their agreement?
In the story, what we were led to believe is that sacrifices were to be made on both sides to achieve the goal of peaceful co-existence in Narnia. (What ensued was a result of one of the leaders breaking that agreement.) What if both leaders had kept their word and the agreed-upon sacrifice led to peace in Narnia without the bloodshed that followed?
I realize that this scenario certainly would not have resulted in as dramatic a story, but what powerful lessons would it have taught us -- and our children -- about leaders and civilized societies? True leaders and civilized species honor their word; they learn to co-exist with those who differ from them; they learn to understand and resolve their differences.
At our "Moving Forward on Iraq" town hall forum, one of the many topics we discussed was the influence religious fundamentalism has on the reasons for the war in Iraq. Panelist Dr. Ron Miller mentioned a quote from Karen Armstrong, a noted author and scholar of religion: "If Osama Bin Laden and George Bush were in a room together, they would understand each other."
What if that were possible?
Setting aside our opinions of how great a leader each of these two men are (or are not), I can't help but wonder how different the current world situation would be if they could sit with each other to discuss their beliefs and differences and come to some kind of mutual agreement.
I realize this will never happen; but I can hope that someday we will have world leaders who can work to resolve their differences in a way that does not destroy life and generate hate.
It's a hard life, it's a hard life, it's a very hard lifeIt's a hard life wherever you go.
If we poison our children with hatred
then, the hard life is all that they'll know
- from "It's a Hard Life" by Nanci Griffith
A CIA missile strike on a remote Pakistani village did not kill top al Qaeda terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri, wire services quoted senior Pakistani sources as saying today. Earlier reports had suggested that al-Zawahiri --Osama bin Laden's second-in-command -- may have been among 18 people killed in the strike. The Pakistani government was expected to issue a statement later today.
Pakistan's information minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmad told CNN on Saturday the government plans to summon the U.S. ambassador and "make a strong protest" over the attack on the village of Damadola, near the Afghan border.
The Associated Press quoted a senior Pakistani intelligence official as saying "our investigations conclude that they (the CIA) acted on a false information."
Reuters also quoted a senior Pakistani official as saying: "Al-Zawahri was not there at the time of the attack."
The Pakistani government was expected to issue a statement later Saturday, AP reported.
Both the Pentagon and the White House declined to comment on initial reports of the airstrike on Friday
Friday morning's strike killed eight men, five women and five children, Pakistani intelligence sources told CNN. Three homes were targeted.
"We are conducting tests to identify the bodies," one intelligence official said.
Hundreds of residents took part Saturday in protesting the attack.
The strike came a week after the Arabic language news network Al-Jazeera aired a new videotape with a message from al-Zawahiri, in which he called on U.S. President George W. Bush to admit defeat in Iraq.
more... http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/14/alqaeda.strike/index.html
Hmm.. is it just me, or is this thread header deja vu all over again?
deja tomatos and Ey ja tomatoes,
Otter
marianne,
great thoughts. I read every Narnia book to my kids and we discussed them often. I always felt the particular brand of Christianity Lewis practiced and evolved was humanist, first and foremost, and did not cut a lot of slack on the fudging integrity part.
Larry and I went to see the movie with some trepidation, for the same reasons you ascribe. But we too were pleasantly surprised at the articulation with the non-preachiness of the books, which are simple tales of humans overcoming their own demons in order to address the greater good.
The long divide between the fantasies and the current realities is heart-breaking, isn't it?
Meanwhile,
We have now FUBAR'd yet another operation, in Pakistan.
Hey everyone out there, what are we gonna DO????
Another one may bite the dust
FOCUS | Ney Under Pressure to Resign Chairmanship
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011406Z.shtml
Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) is pressuring Rep. Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio) to relinquish the chairmanship of the House Administration Committee in the wake of a guilty plea from lobbyist Jack Abramoff that tied Ney to a far-reaching conspiracy to bribe public officials.
I dreamed that I was accused of taking something out of my neighbor's house but I hadn't. It turned out we had the same key that unlocked both houses & we agreed that it wasn't me. I find this really interesting after being criticized for having the audacity to comment on the affairs of other nations and their leaders, especially since I have housed young people who crossed the ocean to try to help us with our situation (Kerry campaign, Clinton's work) and I have been overseas during elections and studied the politics for several years now.
As far as Bin Laden and Bush being in a room and coming to an agreement, it would not seem so surprising, given that both belong to extremist branches of patriarchal religions. I'm not so sure it would be positive for the people.
Dobson and the rest of the radical Religious Right need to be put in their
place.
http://mediamatters.org
"Dobson: Republican majority has "very little" to show for "pro-family, pro-moral" agenda"
This is a response that was left on Dobson's website:
Your spokesman, Paul Hetrick, states your priorities are abortion, same-sex marriage and seating activist conservative judges. What specious thinking!
41 million poor Americans are put on the back burner while you push your radical agenda on topics that lie on the periphery of human suffering.
You are a part of the anti Christ who continue their unbiblical, no, heretical ways. Never in the course of human history have so many been
deceived, so often, by so few. You're gladly trading the lives of the poor for your own grandiosity and power. You're simply fundamentalists (not Christians) - market fundamentalists, obsessed with sexual ethics.
"Dobson speculated" - in a conversation with ethically challenged Rick Santorum - "that Americans "are pretty irritated" at both Democrats and Republicans for that reason." Your bubble is so out of touch with real Christians. We are irritated because you refuse to recognize God's command to be with the poor. You and your kind are hypocrites of the grand order.
As a present day Pharisee it is impossible for you to agree with Isaiah: "Woe to you legislators of infamous laws . . . who refuse justice to the unfortunate, who cheat the poor among my people of their rights, who make widows their prey and rob the orphan."
Roger Williams, of Rhode Island fame, warned Christians against joining forces with civil government. He was absolutely right. You've prostituted yourself with politicians. The political non action you're receiving is your due. You're a fool of the highest order. A Christian you aren't.
Willard Landreth
Presbyterian Elder Western NC
In the recent videotape, Zawahiri warned Americans: "As long as you do not deal with Muslim nations with understanding and respect, you will still go from one disaster to another. And your calamity will not end, unless you leave our lands and stop stealing our resources and stop supporting the bad rulers in our countries."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/13/AR2006011302260.html
Seems to me like a reasonable request...
I posted something at the end of the prior thread which really echos your conclusion, Marianne.
I don't want to re-post the entire thing but the comment at the end really re-states your sentiment in a different way.
----
Otter’s post about William Raspberry’s excellent column titled "Our Civil Disagreements" (see http://tinyurl.com/9cxhn ) is very applicable as well. The whole column is well worth reading but his conclusion, in particular, really struck home with me.
----
… we've come to think that producing winners and losers is the essence not just of politics but also of life.
It isn't. Making this country work for everybody is, and it would be a good thing if all of us -- journalists emphatically included -- remembered that.
----
We’re here to make our country and yes, our world work for everybody.
As far as Bin Laden and Bush being in a room and coming to an agreement, it would not seem so surprising, given that both belong to extremist branches of patriarchal religions. I'm not so sure it would be positive for the people.
Posted by: DiAnne at January 14, 2006 11:16 AM
I think you missed the point, DiAnne. The point I was trying to make is one of learning to respect each other's opinions in an effort to achieve peace. I was not implying that theocracy should rule either country. I'm sorry you misunderstood it.
We’re here to make our country and yes, our world work for everybody.
Posted by: dwahzon at January 14, 2006 11:27 AM
Amen.
Don' you think it was time to go on diversion again and keep the level of fear high among the gullibles in order to keep hiding all the skeletons in King George's closet, though the door cannot close anymore???
Pakistan can protest it's pointless, they have a deal with W and they need US money. Same with Afghanistan, So why bother, they just apply their neocons rules without paying attention to the consequences because they are at bay....which makes them even more dangerous.
Hey DiAnne, Chuck in Doha here:
I liked your comment on Bush and the other guy in a room, and it reminds me of a sensation that I experienced back in the old USSR back in the Reagan days, which was this. If you took the most anti-communist redneck guy in Idaho at the time (I'm from 1970's SE Portland so, as the saying goes, I can say that because I know some) and the most gung-ho Russian in 1985 and put them in a room and let them speak the same language and provided a racial (racist) context for discussion and a common language and lots of beer (for the Idaho guy) and vodka (for, well you guessed it), they would come out hours later best-buddies. Unless they started talking about who had a better army....
Don't know why I thought that was relevant.
Somehow to me it speaks to a deep undercurrent these days, and explains a lot about European politics these days as well.
Impressionistically yours,
Chuck in Doha
Marianne
I didn't misunderstand your point. I was making my own interpretation and being somewhat but not entirely facetious.
Chuck
You got my drift!
Interesting article from Slate as to who the military now considers qualified as cannon fodder...
GI Schmo
How low can Army recruiters go?
http://www.slate.com/id/2133908/nav/tap1/?GT1=7641
--snip--
The bad news is twofold. First, the number of Category IV recruits is starting to skyrocket. Second, a new study compellingly demonstrates that, in all realms of military activity, intelligence does matter. Smarter soldiers and units perform their tasks better; dumber ones do theirs worse.
--snip--
Some perspective here: Each year the Army recruits 80,000 new troops—which amount to 16 percent of its 500,000 active-duty soldiers. Even if 12 percent of recruits were Category IV, not just for October but for the entire coming year, they would swell the ranks of Cat IV soldiers overall by just 1.9 percent (0.12 x 0.16 = .0192).
Then again, viewed from another angle, this would double the Army's least desirable soldiers. These are the soldiers that the Army has long shut out of its ranks; that it is now recruiting avidly, out of sheer desperation; and that—according to the military's own studies—seriously degrade the competence of every unit they end up joining. No, things haven't gone to hell in a handbasket, but they're headed in that direction. Every Army officer knows this. And that's why many of them want the United States to get out of Iraq.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/14/international/europe/14spain.html
U.S. Bars Spain's Sale of Planes to 'Antidemocratic' Venezuela
The leader of Venezuela was elected by a much greater margin than was our own President. The people over Spain overwhelmingly elected their current head, after the Madrid bombings.
Make no mistake. US decisions are made "strategically" and it's about control of resources.
Chuck in Doha for All:
Well, this is going to be a bit diffuse. The idea of world leaders sitting together and deciding something doesn't work for me. I guess I've just never seen it happen. Maybe it's just that I don't believe in the "Great Man" theory of history (I've been reading the Alito transcripts so excuse me if my prose gets a bit abstruse). I like what Fe said a while back that we can be heros. I think leaders are basically opportunists, with very few exceptions, and so they go where people want to be led. The good ones try to work of the good instincts people feel and the bad ones go the other way.
For some reason, a Clinton speech just popped into my head. It was in Kosovo, not long after NATO had occupied the country. The Kosovar crowd was wildly cheering him as a "hero" that had saved them. Then he started talking. I'll paraphrase. "No one should ever ask you to forget what happened to you." Wild cheering. "No one can ever force you to forgive what happened to you." Confused, scattered applause. "But you should try to forgive." Silence. That may be a bad paraphrase (I'll go look for the text of the speech), but I remember the speech really struck me. He could have gone the more evil way and had a much better photo-op as a result by just pandeing by using a theme like "Now that democracy has prevailed in Kosovo" or something to that effect and let people nurse their grievances and prejudices. Instead he did the right thing, in a small way.
Chuck in Doha
Best I could find on the fly:
http://sify.com/news/international/fullstory.php?id=13256473
Chuck in Doha
Chuck
Thanks! I'm really admiring Clinton lately - & looking forward to Gore's speech. Maybe there's something to be said for not being in the driver's seat anymore.
I prefer individual citizens sitting down for good conversation and a meal (compared with leaders). Language and culture are not the barriers some believe. We share alot, not the least of which is that our power as citizens is endangered.
Really though - what a contrast with what we have now (thinking Clinton, Gore, Kerry, for example, compared with Bush) - the rhetoric, the being told who is the enemy, who is democratic, what values are. It's so insulting.
We face serious times - what would we do without humor - we would burn out.
A little more serious stuff to digest (with historical parallels drawn):
Ray McGovern: Men Intoxicated with Power and Courtiers Who Serve Them
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011406Y.shtml
Individually, the new "dots" supplied by revelations about the Iraq war in James Risen's "State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration" are not very surprising. Collectively, though, they provide valuable insight into the peculiar way in which President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair prepared to launch an unprovoked war - shades of Germany and Quisling Austria two generations ago.
Taking a, um, cue from Chuck (and, by extension, Fe):
-----
I, I will be king
And you, you will be queen
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
And you, you can be mean
And I, I'll drink all the time
'Cause we're lovers, and that is a fact
Yes we're lovers, and that is that
Though nothing, will keep us together
We could steal time, just for one day
We can be heroes, for ever and ever
What d'you say?
I, I wish you could swim
Like the dolphins, like dolphins can swim
Though nothing, nothing will keep us together
We can beat them, for ever and ever
Oh we can be heroes, just for one day
I, I will be king
And you, you will be queen
Though nothing will drive them away
We can be heroes, just for one day
We can be us, just for one day
I, I can remember (I remember)
Standing, by the wall (by the wall)
And the guns shot above our heads
(over our heads)
And we kissed, as though nothing could fall
(nothing could fall)
And the shame was on the other side
Oh we can beat them, for ever and ever
Then we could be heroes, just for one day
We can be heroes
We can be heroes
We can be heroes
Just for one day
We can be heroes
We're nothing, and nothing will help us
Maybe we're lying, then you better not stay
But we could be safer, just for one day
-----
where are the bowies of yesteryear,
Otter
Andree -
I happened to see Fox News with the sound off at the gym and across the bottom of the screen, it said "terror level - elevated" & I didn't hear about it any where else but Fox News.
Otter
Remember this one?
All the way from Washington
Her bread-winner begs off the bathroom floor
We live for just these twenty years
Do we have to die for the fifty more?"
All night
He wants the young American
Young American, young American,
he wants the young American
All right
He wants the young American
Do you remember, your President Nixon?
Do you remember, the bills you have to pay?
Or even yesterday?
Have you been un-American?
Why, yes, DiAnne, I do remember that one also. It would be un-American of me not to.
good thing I got a mind like a steel sieve,
Otter
-----
WIDER FIGHT IS SEEN AS ALITO VICTORY APPEARS SECURED
by David D. Kirkpatrick, the New York Times
WASHINGTON, Jan. 13 - Democrats and Republicans say Judge Samuel A. Alito Jr.'s confirmation to the Supreme Court is all but certain, yet the fight over his nomination heated up on Friday as both sides seized on it as a flashpoint for Senate races in the fall and future court selections.
Despite growing certainty about the ultimate conclusion after five days of hearings, interest groups on both sides announced plans on Friday to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on television commercials intended to influence the outcome.
And within moments of dismissing the last witnesses on Friday, Republicans and Democrats on the Judiciary Committee traded accusations of bad faith in a dispute over when the committee and the Senate would vote on confirmation.
Officials of liberal groups insisted that they still held hope of blocking confirmation. Conservative organizers, on the other hand, said privately that their advertisements were partly a victory lap to call attention to a fight the president was winning after a spate of setbacks.
But behind the new advertisements and the partisan bickering are also political calculations about how the vote may play out in this year's Senate races, and about what kind of benchmark the vote count will set for the next Supreme Court vacancy.
[snip]
Still, strategists for both parties said they hoped to use the continuing debate over Judge Alito as a weapon in the fall, noting that midterm elections usually depend on turning out the party faithful and that the nomination battle had made Judge Alito the kind of polarizing figure who galvanized such voters.
Democrats and liberal groups said they were taking aim at Mr. Chafee, Ms. Snowe and Senator Mike DeWine, Republican of Ohio, all of whom are under pressure within their party to vote for confirmation but also face re-election in socially liberal or at least closely divided states. Republicans, meanwhile, said they were calling attention to the liberal Democratic attacks on Judge Alito to squeeze moderate Democratic senators like Mr. Nelson, Mr. Conrad, Senator Bill Nelson of Florida and Senator Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia. All four are up for re-election in conservative states.
[snip]
Full article is here: http://tinyurl.com/b446q
------
give 'em hell in 2006,
Otter
Hey Otter:
Great song -- and I'll see your Bowie and raise you an Elvis Costello in a second if I can find it. It's also on topic.
Chuck in Doha
Elvis Costello - Peace, Love & Understanding Lyrics
As I walk through
This wicked world,
Searching for light in the darkness of insanity,
I ask myself:
"Is all hope lost?
"Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?'
And each time I feel like this inside,
There's one thing I want to know:
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?
And as I walked on
Through troubled times,
My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes.
So where are the strong?
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony.
'cause each time I feel it slipping away,
just makes me want to cry:
"What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
"What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?"
So where are the strong?
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony.
'cause each time I feel it slipping away,
just makes me want to cry"
"What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
"What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
"What's so funny 'bout peace love & understanding?
Which is kind of a downer of a song in a way, but poignant, so I'm off to commune with Elvis for a bit (and Matthew -- I'd still love to have one of those Sunday sermons dedicated to the proposition that everybody's got a little inner-Elvis in them and the role that plays in American politics)
Chuck in Doha
Great minds here.
My association is with that Woody Allen movie where people are discussing Marshall McLuhan in a movie line and Woody says, "I just happen to have Mr. McLuhan right here" rather than just providing a reference.
Chuck
Inner Elvis? With W, it's more like his inner Jerry Lewis.
Otter:
To my mind, the NYT except you posted is the crux of the biscuit now.
Chuck in Doha
DiAnne:
I looked at that Truthout link you posted and that reminds me of something that really struck me in the Alito confirmation hearings where basically Alito would not say whether or not POTUS has the Constitutional right to just go to war without any sort of Congressional resolution at all. Now THAT is something I would like to hear Byrd opine on.
Chuck in Doha
What if "regular citizens" started to get actively involved?
Here is an interesting article about the controversy regarding our corrupt election commission in my little corner of the world.
Tempers flare over electronic voting at panel meeting.
SNIP
While security officers were summoned to the office, Babcock sat down and remained quiet for the rest of the meeting. Jorgensen administered the oath to each commissioner and the meeting continued without incident.
The conflict is emblematic of the recent frustrations felt by election commissioners and residents opposed to electronic voting. Citing concerns about the security, accuracy and integrity of votes cast using electronic methods, a growing group of residents has been urging the commission not to implement the technology.
However, election officials said they had no choice but to purchase the equipment to comply with the federally mandated Help America Vote Act. To be in use for the March election, the law required voting booths with adaptive technology to be in place by Jan. 1 for voters with disabilities. On Dec. 29, the commission agreed to purchase 732 Diebold TSX touch-screen machines, one for each precinct in the county. The equipment also will be used for early voting.
Residents called for further scrutiny of the machines, citing concerns about the possibility of hackers altering the results.
"How will you explain to the citizens of DuPage County that the same voting system which will likely be decertified in California due to prohibited code is good enough for us?" Glen Ellyn resident Jean Kaczmarek said.
SNIP
Woodridge resident Mary Perlmutter raised concerns about the commission's hiring of media consultant Frank Salvato in 2004. Salvato has ties to the Republican party.
Officials said Salvato was hired to do public relations for voter registration, and he developed print materials that were distributed at area businesses as well as a public service announcement for cable television that featured Democrats and Republicans.
SNIP
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/sunpub/naper/news/n13election.htm
This will probaly be shot down as either naive, shallow or dumb, but I'm going to get brave and post a thought here.
For much of the 20th Century particularly the last half of it, much of the worlds affairs were really done by leaders sitting down in the same room, or at least talking to each other on the phone. I think of the great meetings of the leaders of the Allies, Potsdam and (and we'll skip the discussion of how well they did) Yalta.
Kennnedy spent much time on the phone with Krushchev during the Cuban Missile Crisis, while the final deal was worked out by sligtly lower level people it was done with the full knowledge of both men.
Carter and the Camp David accords was done by leaders sitting down at the same table.
Even Reagan met with Gorbachv.. and tried to listen. The Wall did come down.
It seems to me that one of the great failings of the current President is that he's missed more than one chance to do the same thing. When he does go oversea's it isn't to talk, much less listen, but to order, bully, and dominate. Has anybody noticed that in the last 5 years about the only major figure from a foregin nation to vist our shores has been Prince Charles??
Maybe there is something to be said for the power of sitting down and maybe even breaking bread together.
Chuck in Doha for Not My President:
Here is the inner-Elvis lost scroll. (Note that I think that Mojo is being quite unfair about Michael J. Fox -- it's probably a cultural thing about Canadian humor. Anyways, this song is from the mid-'eighties, when Michael J. Fox was in that sitcom where he played a scheming "success at any price" business-type. Can't remember the name of the show. Anyway, I think Dick Cheney is the Anti-Elvis myself.)
Elvis Is Everywhere
by Mojo Nixon
When I look out into your eyes out there,
When I look out into your faces,
You know what I see?
I see a little bit of Elvis
In each and every one of you out there.
Lemme tell ya...
Weeeeeeeeeellllllll...
Elvis is everywhere
Elvis is everything
Elvis is everybody
Elvis is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big E's
Inside of you and me
Elvis is everywhere, man!
He's in everything.
He's in everybody...
Elvis is in your jeans.
He's in your cheesburgers
Elvis is in Nutty Buddies!
Elvis is in your mom!
He's in everybody.
He's in the young, the old,
the fat, the skinny,
the white, the black
the brown and the blue
people got Elvis in 'em too
Elvis is in everybody out there.
Everybody's got Elvis in them!
Everybody except one person that is...
Yeah, one person!
The evil opposite of Elvis.
The Anti-Elvis
Anti-Elvis got no Elvis in 'em,
lemme tell ya.
Michael J. Fox has no Elvis in him.
And Elvis is in Joan Rivers
but he's trying to get out, man!
He's trying to get out!
Listen up Joanie Baby!
Elvis is everywhere
Elvis is everything
Elvis is everybody
Elvis is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big E's
Inside of you and me
Man, there's a lot of unexplained phenomenon
out there in the world.
Lot of things people say
What the heck's going on?
Let me tell ya!
Who built the pyramids?
ELVIS!
Who built Stonehenge?
ELVIS!
Yeah, man you see guys
walking down the street
pushing shopping carts
and you think they're talking to allah,
they're talking to themself.
Man, no they're talking to ELVIS!
ELVIS! ELVIS!
You know whats going on in that Bermuda Triangle?
Down in the Bermuda Traingle
Elvis needs boats.
Elvis needs boats.
Elvis Elvis Elvis
Elvis Elvis Elvis
Elvis needs boats.
Aahh! The Sailing Elvis!
Captain Elvis!
Commodore Elvis it is.
Yeah man, you know people from outer space,
people from outer space they come up to me.
They don't look like like Doctor Spock.
They don't look like Klingons,
all that Star Trek jive.
They look like Elvis.
ELVIS!
Everybody in outer space looks like Elvis.
Cause Elvis is a perfect being.
We are all moving in perfect peace and harmony towards Elvisness
Soon all will become Elvis.
Everything everywhere will be Elvis.
Why do you think they call it evolution anyway?
It's really Elvislution!
Elvislution!
Elvis is everywhere
Elvis is everything
Elvis is everybody
Elvis is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big E's
Inside of you and me
That's right ladies and gentlemen,
The time has come!
Time has come to talk
To that little bit of Elvis inside of you.
Talk to it!
Call it up!
Say "Elvis, heal me!"
"Save me, Elvis!"
"Make me be born again
in the perfect Elvis light"
That's right!
You've got that Elvis inside of ya
and he's talkin to ya
He says he wants you to sing!
Everybody's got to sing like the king!
Like the king
Get that leg going now
Get your lip too.
Not no fool Billy Idol lip either
Everybody!
Yeah, we're rockin now!
Elvis is with us.
He's with us and he's speaking to us.
He says "Peoples!"
"Peoples!"
"Everybody!"
"Everybody got to sing!"
Elvis is everywhere
Elvis is everything
Elvis is everybody
Elvis is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big E's
Inside of you and me
Elvis is everywhere
Elvis is everything
Elvis is everybody
Elvis is still the king
Man o man
What I want you to see
Is that the big E's
Inside of you and me
Elvis!
Chuck in Doha
PS: I know that was kind of excessive but I have been dying to post that for ages!
Chuck et al:
I am aware of a study done by a colleague of mine in which she guided some group processes between Israeli and Palestinian soldiers along the border patrols that had to be jointly conducted under the Oslo Peace Accords. In her write up of the study, I remember one conclusion was that the soldiers were truly able to engage with the process and hear each other, and this increased their ability to keep the peace on the patrols.
The exception to this pattern was when the generals were present.
Then no one got along. And the tensions increased.
This story also reminds me of a particular Washington anomaly, which is that many of the partisans actually get along quite well on a personal level. Put 'em at a bar and they're sharing jokes and buying each other drinks. Next day they are back in Congress slinging mud at each other.
I can't help but think that, adaptively speaking, it is better to sit in a room until common ground is found and the good of the people and the planet is put first. It seems it is our instituional constructs and imperial impulses that get in the way of what would be a natural selection process. But those may, if data is correct, appear mostly within the context of powers structures.
Add a pint of Jack Daniels and a good talking stick and maybe we could solve everything....
Take the letters in Elvis's name and rearrange them: Lives
Ladytechie:
Well, in some respects you raise good points, and I certainly believe that good leaders acting in good faith can achieve a lot. But only if the people are behind them. And I still maintain I haven't seen many examples of those sort of heads-of-state meetings-of-mind yield much of enduring value. When I thought of leaders sitting down in a room, the image that came to my mind was Chamberlain and Hilter in Munich. And the Roosevelt-Churchill-Stalin meetings meant nothing without the sacrifice of the allied armed forces and the industrial might behind them. I don't think Kennedy and Krushchev ever spoke on the phone at all. In fact, it was after that crisis, I think, that a special "hot-line" was established for just that reason. Camp David 1979 (or thereabouts) -- OK -- but what did it really achieve for the people in the middle east? Likewise Camp Daid II -- the people weren't there yet. Also, on the fall of Communism, I honestly don't think Reagan had one thing to do with it. That was more about an internal Kremlin power struggle that Gorbachev lost control of, and then the wall came down as a result of general chaos (which continues to this day in the old USSR, with some good and some bad results). I know that my view on that is not mainstream. But I was there at the time (in an oilfield in Siberia anyway) and I do speak the language.
Anyway, for what it's worth, that is my take on it.
Chuck in Doha
Karen
You've got the solution! Have the next elections taken into bars and get all the Americans drinking before voting. They might come out with a clear smart choice...
Who pays for the beers or bourbon?
Chuck in Doha for Karen:
That sounds like a very interesting study and it certainly jives with my personal experiences. On a personal level, most everybody has the same values and desires (except the Anti-Elvis that is). Then, when you put people in a highly-charged competitive context, they feel the need to exhibit aggressive behavior aimed at the "other" side, which then are no longer people but [add your own insulting pejorative for some group of people here]. I don't know what they are trying to prove to themselves or others by doing it but I am sure that dynamic exists and I am sure it is deep in all of us and underlies a great deal of mass politics and identity politics.
Chuck in Doha
PS: Not sure what to do about though. I'll just keep on asking Elvis! "Well you may go to college, you may go to school, you may drive a pink Cadillac but don't you be nobody's fool!"
Ray McGovern: Men Intoxicated with Power and Courtiers Who Serve Them
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011406Y.shtml
Individually, the new "dots" supplied by revelations about the Iraq war in James Risen's "State of War: The Secret History of the CIA and the Bush Administration" are not very surprising. Collectively, though, they provide valuable insight into the peculiar way in which President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair prepared to launch an unprovoked war - shades of Germany and Quisling Austria two generations ago
{{{ Please read this. I know we on this blog have suspected a lot of this info, but McGovern points out the details, and it's necessary stuff to know. I am going to go back and re-read this, and I'm considering sending it to my politicians, and most definitely I'm sending it to my list of people interested in politics.}}}
Posted by: Ladytechie at January 14, 2006 01:31 PM
A truly powerful leader is one who can make other people think his (or her) decisions are theirs.
Effective leadership means that you have so influenced a group of people by endless behind-the-scenes, roll-up-your-sleeves, one-of-the-guys work, that when you sit down to make "big decisions", you are simply enunciating what you have influenced all your people to embrace already.
And you have worked so endlessly understanding and influencing the culture & people & politicians of the other country that they really have no choice but to say what they do in the meeting, although they feel that they have full freedom to speak as they wish and that they are voluntarily committing their country to this agreement.
Powerful and hardworking leaders can, by themselves, accomplish sweeping change (whether from the bottom, middle, or top of an organization or country)...but what happens at summits is merely a formality.
Veritas:
I like the way you put that. I got that Lincoln book for Christmas ("Team of Rivals" or something to that effect) and it seems to me that you are describing the Lincoln-Seward nexus, contrasted to Salmon Chase's ultmately impotent conception of himself as "the Great Man."
Just a thought. But I do want to say that I really agree with your underlying premise, which is that the hard work of building a consensus behind the scenes is what often goes unnoticed and what often leads to enduring success for a leader in any endeavor.
Chuck in Houston
PS: Go Trojans!
Cheers! Click on the map for your location. I have checked this group out personally and they get great speakers locally!
http://www.drinkingliberally.org
During WW2, my father-in-law and his buddies used to throw pairs of socks across a narrowing of the Rhine River to German soldiers, in exchange for bars of soap.
Veritas,
Hope you had a nice trip! Sebsstien said to tell you hi.
DiAnne:
I bet they don't have one in Doha!
Chuck
Chuck
Drinking in Doha:
http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/876b6/1b8ed7/
Doha Nightlife Reviews:
http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Middle_East/Qatar/Baladiyat_ad_Dawhah/Doha-1806039/Nightlife-Doha-BR-1.html
By the way, would you be homesick if I told you this is the 27th consecutive day of rain and 10 more are predicted? At 33, we break the record from 1953. People interviewed on NPR (Seattle, Portland) overwhelmingly were happy, talking about how good snowboarding would be and how green everything would be and how nice our skin is.
Posted by marianne at January 14, 2006 09:30 AM
The Cretin and OBL sit down in a room together???
Um.... I think what they would do is plan another 9/11. Look how well it's worked out for both of them - and the warmongering corporations who are receiving so many of our tax dollars while putting this nation in deep, deep debt because of The Cretin's tax cuts to the wealthy.
As is, PNAC (and, remember, Jebbie Bush is one of the people listed on their web site as backing them, and he's quietly sitting behind the scenes as FL governor and no one's mentioned him in a while for being the next president to set up a Bu$h dynasty, with young Prescott Bu$h to follow as another presidential candidate, as was noted during the Repub convention) is on track for controlling the world's resources (i.e. OIL, first and foremost, because they know the peak has come and it's dwindling oil resources from here on out), the House of Saud and the House of Bu$h and the House of Cheney-Halliburton are reaping the monetary rewards... while staying in power by keeping the sheeple in control with scare rhetoric and tactics (color-coded terror alerts that no one pays any attention to from a new governmental office that duplicates everything that was in place and now they've mucked up the few things that used to work, while telling sheeple to go out and buy things and vacation and go on with their lives - paraphrasing The Cretin the week after 9/11).
OBL got his poster boy to illegally invade a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 (remember, the hijackers were Saudis!) to recruit more al Qaida terrorists, GWB got his corporate fascist nation with war rhetoric polarizing everyone with the good vs. evil talk (and he knows evil intimately well, being the prime evil one), and Cheney-Halliburton is one of the prime movers behind the scenes. They are all happy, making war, making profits, polarizing the sheeples with their good vs evil rhetoric to distract everyone's attention away from what they are doing to us behind the scenes to secretly gain more and more power and control, and most sheeples are too stupid and clueless to even ask the questions about how and why they are being manipulated into their bandwagon patriotism or quasi-religious rhetoric that so vividly imitates what they hear from the TV anchors who are participating in brainwashing the sheeples - giving the masses "bread and circuses" - while they LIE and LIE, and LIE some more, to keep people controlled....
So, while you may be an optimist, marianne, I'm a realist, a cynic, and a pessimist (an optimist with experience), and believe that if OBL and GWB ever entered a room together the only thing I would anticipate from such a meeting of the minds of two paranoid and psychopathic men is more 9/11 type events to further empower and enrich The House of Saud, The House of Bu$h, and The House of Cheney-Halliburton.
Don't get me wrong. I fully support your right to fantasize about good things happening as a result of people sitting in the same room talking. But the people doing the talking must FIRST be good people, and we all know that The Cretin and the Vice Cretin and their Criminal Cabal are NOT good people, but evil personified. Nothing good happens when they make secret deals behind closed doors and opt for only obeying laws and changing laws at their whim. We've had five years of secrecy and LIES, and we do not need more of the same....
Veritas:
That also reminds me of a good quote from Ronald Reagan that my favorite boss (and yes, a Republican) had on his desk: "It's amazing what you can achieve if you don't care who gets the credit" or something to that effect. I think to be an effective leader, a person has to understand organizations, understand and empathize with people as people and not labels, work hard to build consensus, be able to synthesize new information or insights and adjust course accordingly, understand what is achievable and in what timeframe, and communicate all of that effectively to all sorts of people in a way that makes them feel part of the team and appreciated. Now, having said that, a person with those skills or qualities or characteristics can use them for good or bad purposes. I think the good leaders have an additional element, which is a sense of humbleness or even pensiveness(with Lincoln a lot of people called it "melancholy"). Or maybe its just an understanding of a larger, higher perspective than a person's own ego. Just some random thoughts. But anyway, I think those are some interesting observations you and Karen made.
Chuck in Doha
DiAnne:
Sad but true. Only allowed in international hotels in this dry county. Me, I like corner pool joints like we used to have on SE Hawthorne back in the days of my mis-spent youth.
Chuck in Dry Doha
PS: It's been sprinkling here lately and it's actually a tad chilly out -- colder than Houston! (At least when I left Houston.)
NonnyO:
In re your post from 2:37 pm today...
...I think you need to quit vacillating like that and tell us how you really feel.
feels like scream spirit,
Otter
otter
Yeah but "Vice Cretin!" - ROFL
Chuck:
Ah... but in typically Reaganistic fashion, Ronnie The Actor lifted the quote you mentioned, one that he is (ahem) so often given the credit for, verbatim from WWII general George Marshall -- who in turn had probably heard the idea expressed in similar terms from somebody else first, it not being all that unique a concept.
line, please! I need somebody to give me my line again,
Otter
Posted by: NonnyO at January 14, 2006 02:37 PM
I have made a conscious choice to be more open-minded and hopeful for our world. Otherwise, I'd go crazy. Being cynical and pessimistic destroys my faith and ability to work for the greater good. Call it naive or stupid, if you want, but it's the only way I can see that we'll ever get closer to peace. And peace is what we all deserve -- for us and for our children.
Chuck in Doha for Veritas:
Oh, also, one more random thought on that, on the "good" leader side -- it seems a lot of them have a very active sense of humor and really enjoy talking to people. The bad ones don't seem to have that, probably the flip-side of taking themselves too seriously.
Chuck in Doha
My choice is to temper things with humor, for fear of burning out. We are in it for the long haul. I don't see it really as optimism or pessimism but more as balancing the too. I think it's kind of hard to avoid what a friend calls the "vacillating perspective." It really helps me to get off the blog and do something - looking forward to MLK march Monday, for example - then come back on - such as to find an mP3 of Gore's speech same day, & kind of synthesize the real and virtual worlds into some kind of continued direction. We are in serious trouble but we are also not the only or the first people on the planet to face this.
I think the pertinent part of Marianne's post is as follows:
SETTING ASIDE OUR OPINIONS OF HOW GREAT A LEADER EACH OF THESE TWO MEN ARE (OR ARE NOT), I can't help but wonder how different the current world situation would be if they could sit with each other to discuss their beliefs and differences and come to some kind of mutual agreement.
----
And her message of just what are we teaching our children deserves greater thought and attention.
Hate, cynicism, conspiracy... these are not things I'm willing to teach my children.
Pursuit of peace, the ability to listen to others, to attempt to understand other viewpoints besides the one I was raised with... those are the things that I think Marianne was referencing and that I've attempted to teach my own children. And in the end, that's one of my strongest motivations for being here and supporting the DCP. I want my children and their children and so on to have a more peaceful world.
Otter:
Thanks for that! I expected that is was apocryphal! I can't wait to tell my ex-boss next time I'm in his office (we talk politics alot). General Marshall, huh? Right ... the "Marshall Plan" guy.
Chuck in Doha
"Well, it came out of the sky, landed just a little south of Modine....
"Spiro said 'put the thing in the pool-room
"The Vatican said 'no, it belongs in Rome
"Ronnie the populist said it was a communist plot"
Chuck
Re leaders, I respect Kennedy and Kerry for their long careers of service and for their moral courage. I respect Byrd because he carries a copy of the Constitution not just in his head but in his pocket. I respect Dean because he isn't easily intimidated. These are matters of character and courage, so it's not necessary that I agree on all issues.
When looking at the world, I respect leaders who try to get the best quality of life for the greatest number of people. That is the bottom line. Selling out to the highest bidder is not an option. The fact that they do is at the root core of most of my frustration and depression. & that is also why I may be critical when they do sell out.
Chuck:
The Vatican said 'Woe, the Lord has come'
Hollywood rushed out an epic film
Ah, yes... those were halcyon days indeed...
where are willie and the poor boys now that we need them,
Otter
I taught my son that I believed that war is wrong. He was part of "Babies Against Bombs."
He attended Nuclear Freeze, Target Seattle, Peace Park actions before he could walk. We marched against invasion of El Salvador & he said, "Hey, I just saw my teacher!"
I was motivated by blunt truth - photos seen as a child and adolescent which showed victims of torture, starvation, mercury poisoning, bombing. I did not seek these out for my child nor hide them away. I never said that truth is always pretty.
Speaking out and listening to others are both important. Truth is very important. It is never popular to take a stand that is not the one your country's leadership takes.
Posted by: chuck at January 14, 2006 02:38 PM
I agree, if I may add a couple more that instantly highlight a good leader in my eyes: ability to make decisions under stress/in crisis situations; ability to recognize talent and potential and surround themselves with (or strategically plant or cultivate) such individuals; never shying from a decision because of the responsibility involved; capitalizing on diversity (not just culture/race, but all types of diverse thought, ability, origin, etc.)...and my favorite:
Focusing on their ideas and not their "cult of personality", realizing that their ideas will long outlive their bodies and even their personal fame.
Posted by: Veritas at January 14, 2006 03:13 PM
All great characteristics of true leaders, Veritas. I would add...the ability to listen to and respect dissenting opinions, and perhaps be willing to change your mind as a result.
Marianne:
Narnia is a fine book, and can be read and viewed as simply a story.
In other blog news, I see that the Whiskey Bar is now open--Billmon's back after a month hiatus. His latest post is really interesting (and a bit scary),
http://billmon.org/archives/002353.html
about the maturing and media savvy of the Iraqi resistance. Man, I wish we had never invaded that place!
Peace to all DCPers--Beth
Hey Look! Optimists & Pessimists Needed - and everything in between, even Vacillating Perspectives!!
COME ONE COME ALL
_________________________________________________
On Monday, January 16th--Martin Luther King day--Professor Howard Zinn and Bill Fletcher Jr. will be our guests on Conversations with the Cabinet. Join us for these consecutive conversations regarding King's legacy and lessons for today.
Go to http://backbonecampaign.org/conversation.cfm?ID=32 and you can register.
Educating for Justice, featuring Professor Howard Zinn
Professor Zinn (bio) http://backbonecampaign.org/cabinet/nominee.cfm?ID=271 is a nominee for Progressive Secretary of Education on the Backbone Cabinet http://backbonecampaign.org/cabinet . He has been responsible for awakening generations to the true and dark complexities of American history. His most famous work, A People's History of the United States, enables us to see the past clearly as we work to build a better future. His direct involvement in the Civil Rights movement makes him an even more appropriate guest as we celebrate this important holiday with action and reflection.
_________________________________________________
Hey Look Again! More stuff going on! Get off the blog and into the streets, then come back again or take your computer with you!
At this moment of urgent necessity as the Bush program is being locked into place via Alito and Bush-authorized NSA spying, do all you can to stop this now. At this moment of great opportunity, as millions want this President gone, and the "I" word of impeachment is circulating, build a movement powerful enough to drive out the Bush Regime.
January 31, 2006: President Bush gives his State of the Union Address.
The State of the Union is a STATE OF EMERGENCY!
TUESDAY, JANUARY 31, 2006
Bring the Noise and Drown Out Bush's Lies
In large cities and town squares across the country we will rally one hour before Bush's address. Let the world hear us as we symbolically drown out Bush's lies bring your own noise -- drums, pots and pans, musical instruments -- your voice. Let taxi horns blare and church bells ring, as we bring our own state of the union message: BUSH STEP DOWN!
SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 4, 2006
11:00 AM, 17th & Constitution. Washington, DC. We will take our demand to the White House.
Go to http://www.worldcantwait.org
"The whole disastrous course of this Bush Regime must be STOPPED...We must and can create a political situation where the Bush regime's program is repudiated, where Bush himself is driven from office, and where the whole direction he is taking society is reversed. We in our millions must and can take responsibility to change the course of history. THE FUTURE IS UNWRITTEN - WHICH ONE WE GET IS UP TO US."
"THAT WHICH YOU WILL NOT RESIST AND MOBILIZE TO STOP YOU WILL LEARN--OR BE FORCED--TO ACCEPT."
Unfortunately, most of the "pessimistic" things are hard to disprove. Be an "optimist" by doing something about it, even if it's a long haul and there is not a quick fix. As a former leftie (and I don't mean a Democrat told me), "I'm now willing to go through a long series of incremental steps."
I heard on Air America that Rev. Welton Gaddy of the Interfaith Alliance is starting up a weekly radio show called "State of Belief" from 5pm - 6pm. They will obviously focus on the intersection of church & state (and the need for separation) and will be interviewing Walter Cronkite on the first show.
The Interfaith Alliance website has an announcement about it: http://www.interfaithalliance.org/site/pp.asp?c=8dJIIWMCE&b=447561
Here's the link to Air America's information:
http://airamericaradio.com/stateofbelief/
It will be broadcast on Air America's station on Sirius Satellite radio, but you can also listen to it live via streaming audio from the Air America website. Sounds like it's going to be a good show.
DiAnne, should we assume that the above "Hey Look! ... Hey Look Again!" post is a copy & paste from an activist email newsletter? If so, which one? Others of us might like to subscribe to it also.
information is power,
Otter
Hi all!
This is a FINAL reminder to those of you who have expressed interest in sending something to me for the book for Teresa & John Kerry. The final deadline to send your items to me is Monday morning, January 16. At this date, it will be too late for you to send anything to me via snail mail (unless you opt to overnight it). You can still e-mail things to me until Monday morning, January 16. I'm sorry to have to cut this off, but I need to have all the items by that time so that I can get them all printed out, organized, and placed into the scrapbook (which I intend to overnight FedEx to Teresa & John on the 18th).
I just wanted to remind you one last time, in case you wanted to send something to me over the weekend.
Again, this is a special gift (a scrapbook) which I'm working on for Teresa Heinz Kerry & John Kerry, with messages of support and appreciation (photos and campaign memorabilia are welcome as well!!!). They will receive this on the anniversary of their great victory in the Iowa caucus.
Here is the link for more info on the project: http://hometown.aol.com/chells4681/teresaandjohn.html
There is also info on the site on how to contact me to send your items.
If you e-mail me something, I will send you a confirmation when I receive it - so if you don't hear from me, then you should resend your message.
Thanks so much for your kindness and willingness to participate. I'm tremendously appreciative!
Otter
Let's see - the best way is to follow the links
http://www.backbonecampaign.org
http://www.worldcantwait.org
I do cut and paste them because I don't want to include solitications or all of the text. Interested parties can go to these links and them sign up to be on an email list & it's a great reminder and way to connect.
I also got a couple of really interesting things in the mail, along with bills and snail spam.
I got the Hightower Lowdown in hard copy, so that has to be from my brother in Colorado, as he's a true believer and populist. Hightower is from Texas and I've seen his Rolling Thunder Revue (he brought along William Rivers Pitt, Jane Fonda's first ex - the one between Roger Vadim and Ted Turner - can't remember his name but he was a college radical). Anyway, Hightower takes 'em all on, & I sometimes catch his radio show on community radio.
http://www.hightowerlowdown.com
The other piece was about Bernie Sanders running for the Senate, which would be interesting, as he's an Independent and Congressman from Vermont but progressive as they come. If Catherine Harris and Rick Santorum could be subtracted and Sanders could be added, that would be sweet!
More about Bernie Sanders:
http://www.bernie.house.gov/
http://www.bernie.org
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050815/nichols
http://www.davidsirota.com/2005/04/sanders-best-positioned-to-win-06.html
My latest policy is to send ten bucks to every thing that sounds good. Then I get a multiplication of solicitations and it's hard on my pocketbook but by sticking to ten dollars a crack, it's doable. It relieves my guilt when I sometimes don't volunteer but I'm going to hook up again with my neighborhood organization, so I won't get too carried away with the world citizen bit!
Michelle!!! I'm glad you & Andree connected!!!
She is the only person I know who can write to John in French, Teresa in Portuguese and us in English!
Tom Hayden - that was the dude. Berkeley Free Speech Movement and all that ..
I went to the bakery for my free breakfast and driving home, I saw so many progressive signs and stickers. I love this town.
Posted by: Bert/DiAnne at January 14, 2006 11:21 AM
Woah. When I met Dobson in the late 70's he was a gentle man, concerned with teaching parents to take the time with their children necessary to help them grow up confident and with a good measure of well balanced self esteem.
Since many of us here remember my dismay when I first came to the DCP to learn about the realities of the state of our government, it's leaders, it's real leaders behind the scene, and how it all affects us here at home and abroad, you will remember I did not learn and process the hard truths about Dr. Dobson's present actions and the reactions they cause, easily.
I still think somewhere he must not have just left those good qualities by the wayside. He must have been misled, and fooled. He (in my opinion) put his priorities in the wrong place, and his goals became amiss. And I think he missed the greatest commandment of all; the one that sums up all the rest - love one another. Yes, they have strong opinions on certain sexual practices - as do people of other religions - although the views and rules may vary. But the priority seems to have shifted from teaching your own about your beliefs to imposing your will and rules on all. And forget about the poor.
I warned many Christians about us becoming a fascist country. I warned them about us harming the poor to build up the rich. I warned them about pending wars in the oil rich Middle East. I warned them about loss of civil liberties and illegal activities. Some said they didn't care. Some said they "love President Bush" and asked me not to ever send them another message that had news that implicated President Bush or any of his cronies or associates in anything "negative".
The bible tells us that when we have told people something and they refuse to hear you, shake the dust off your feet and go somewhere else. I have done that, and I am very glad.
Jesus was a liberal.
(I never read The Chronicles of Narnia. I gave my son a set and he read every one by the time he was eight years old. So, I don't know what the next sequence will be about, and don't want to know yet. There are six total, and they plan on making films on each one. I was fascinated by the wardrobes and scenery and special effects. I love art, and thought the Ice Witch was very well portrayed.)
DiAnne,
Shut up. I love your town too. My town has lots of Kerry-Edwards bumper stickers, but Ken Mehlman lives around the corner...
Sparks Fly over Flyover at MLK March
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/011406B.shtml
A bitter dispute over the planned military flyover at Monday's Martin Luther King march has split peace activists, longtime march supporters and East Side community members, and could result in a smaller turnout for what has been the nation's largest MLK march.
Karen
eeuuwww! Ken Mehlman. But cross the 520 bridge to the East side & we're in the territory of Craig McCaw (Cellular phone fortune) and other big Bush donors.
Truth Shall Prevail
Yes, I think something went badly wrong (with Dobson & others). The area where my brother lives (Colorado Springs) severely creeps me out now, in some sectors, because of the cultish feel of the energy.
I have a friend in Florida with a family who is involved in that sort of Bush-supporting religion. They told him that when there were no more homosexuals, the oil wells would all fill up again and be plentiful. They were serious.
Truth Shall Prevail
Also remember that some of the neocons used to be liberals, in fact, some of them are still - in their own minds - but it's a twisted version (the "spreading democracy" bit - but using force!)
People can be well-intensioned - in their own minds - and adopt a more twisted ideology over time, rationalizing away the more humanistic aspects in their quest for power & prestige.
& I think the socially conservative religious community has been used by the right - strange bedfellows as there are probably many who really draw no economic benefit from a system that rewards the super-rich.