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Listening In On The Wiretapping Hearings


UPDATE: Well, there you have it. The Attorney General just told Senator Biden that we will be at war forever, as long as there is one person alive that could possibly be considered a threat to the United States or its interests. Any questions?

Glenn Greenwald will be doing much of the legal-blogging coverage, as he's both a lawyer and an expert on these issues.

And if you are up, Glenn will be on C-SPAN's Washington Journal tomorrow morning from 7:45-8:30 a.m EST debating the NSA scandal with University of Virginia Professor Robert Turner.

Glenn sez:

This clip of George Bush should be talked about all week -- why, if the Administration had all the legal authority in the world to eavesdrop without warrants and outside of FISA did it repeatedly make false statements to the public and to the Congress assuring us all that it was eavesdropping only in accordance with FISA? Parties make false statements in order to conceal their behavior only when their behavior is improper and wrong, not when it is justified and legal. And deliberately false statements of that sort from our government officials happen to be unacceptable and wrong, and really constitute a scandal unto itself.

Or at least they should constitute a scandal in and of themselves.

Glenn also has the inside scoop on Ted Kennedy's line of questioning and you can read about that here.

While Senator Kennedy's line of approach may be unexpected, it shouldn't be. There are only two real ways to win this fight, and one of them is already been somewhat lost. The first way, would have been to control the conversation. The White House wanted the coversation to be about National Security, while the rest of the folks who have read the Constitution, want it to be about The Constitution. That point has been lost, I fear.

So Senator Kennedy has done what I think is a wise move, which it appears would be to pivot, to cede nothing to the administration or Gonzales on National Security, but rather make them prove that this program actually worked, and worked so damn well, that it was worth breaking the law, et cetera.

Of course, having seen this committee at work during the Alito hearings, I kicked my expectations to the curb last week for any democratic coordination or effectiveness during this set of hearings.

I'm with Dr. Greenwald on this one - we'll all wait and see.

Consider this an open thread on the NSA hearings.

108 Comments

Otter said:

Considering the complexity of the issues surrounding the NSA spying program, this link might come in handy -- it points to an article on MSNBC.com that gives a fairly good overview of what today's discussions will be based on:

----------


"What is the NSA spying furor all about?

"As Gonzales testifies to Judiciary Committee, here's a guide to the issues:"

Full article is here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11164037/


----------


you can't tell the players without a scorecard,
Otter

sparrow said:

Thanks, Casey, I'm over there since i can't be there!

madame defarge said:

From DU's Top 10 Conservative Idiots of the week, number 5 is...

Eavesdroppings
rated: unconstitutional, covering your a**
Bush got crazy when the time came to defend his illegal wiretapping operations. His voice rose in pitch and volume, his eyes popped from his head, and he jerked violently from side to side. Oh yes, he knows he's in trouble all right.

According to Dubya:

"It is said that prior to the attacks of September the 11th, our government failed to connect the dots of the conspiracy. We now know that two of the hijackers in the United States placed telephone calls to al Qaeda operatives overseas. But we did not know about their plans until it was too late. So to prevent another attack - based on authority given to me by the Constitution and by statute - I have authorized a terrorist surveillance program to aggressively pursue the international communications of suspected al Qaeda operatives and affiliates to and from America. ... The terrorist surveillance program has helped prevent terrorist attacks. It remains essential to the security of America."

Now, considering that Bush's only defense against the illegality of his warrantless wiretapping scheme is to keep insisting that he has the Constitutional authority to do whatever it takes to protect the American people, you'd think he might want to get his facts straight on this. But the New York Daily News reported last week that:

"The National Security Agency's secret domestic spying hasn't nabbed any Al Qaeda agents in the U.S. since the Sept. 11 attacks, FBI Director Robert Mueller told Congress yesterday."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/388032p-329252c.html

Mueller told the Senate Intelligence Committee that his agents get "a number of leads from the NSA," but he made it clear Osama Bin Laden's henchmen weren't at the end of the trail.

Oh dear. George had better start practicing that perp walk.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/06/231.html

(BTW, the other 9 are pretty good too.)

Otter said:

The Washington Monthly's Kevin Drum also provided a convenient summary of the various NSA issues this morning:

----------


"THE NSA AND YOU.... The Washington Post's big story on Sunday about the NSA's domestic spying program provides answers to some questions and clues about others. Here's a Q&A style roundup using excerpts from the story:"

Full article is here: http://tinyurl.com/aq9ce


----------


D.C. Neothugs: keeping citizens safe in spy of themselves,
Otter

madame defarge said:

OT but...

IRAQ'S CIVIL WAR HAS COST $3,000 PER U.S. FAMILY-- SO FAR

LOS ANGELES -- God forbid critics of the war on
Iraq should compare it with the war in Vietnam. But perhaps it is worth mentioning that the liberation of Iraq is now costing more each month than the preservation of the Republic of South Vietnam did more than 30 years ago.

As the admitted direct cost of the war reached $250 billion last week -- and the White House asked for $120 billion more on Thursday -- new analyses estimate that the invasion of Iraq could end up costing $2 trillion before it is over.

--snip--
The war, in fact, is a factor in the escalating cost of petroleum products here and everywhere else in the world. Leaving that aside as you watch the gas-pump digits rise to Super Bowl numbers this weekend, two anti-war research institutes, the International Relations Center and the Institute for Policy Studies, estimate that the war's cost per citizen has reached $727 -- or close to $3,000 for a family of four. By the end of this year, those figures should reach about $1,300 per citizen, or more than $5,000 for that family of four.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucrr/20060203/cm_ucrr/iraqscivilwarhascost3000perusfamilysofar

DiAnne said:

ACLU info suggesting the Secret Service misled Arlen Specter about the Patriot Act.

http://eatthestate.org/10-11/SecretServiceProposes.htm

(from Geov Parrish from Eat the State, Seattle Weekly, Working for Change, AlterNet - picked this up at the local video store)

madame defarge said:

From the Financial Times...

White House to lash out at media coverage of terror surveillance

The Bush administration will tell the Senate today that the National Security Agency's programme for terrorist surveillance has been badly distorted by media reports, and that the scheme is a strictly limited one aimed at al-Qaeda members and affiliated groups.

--snip--
"Contrary to the speculation reflected in some media reporting, the terrorist surveillance programme is not a dragnet that sucks in all conversation and uses computer searches to pick out calls of interest," Mr Gonzales will say in response to questions raised by Arlen Specter, chairman of the Senate judiciary committee. "No communications are intercepted unless first it is determined that one end of the call is outside of the country, and professional intelligence experts have probable cause [that is, 'reasonable grounds to believe'] that a part to the communication is a member or agent of al-Qaeda or an affiliated terrorist organisation."

But that appears to conflict with a detailed report in yesterday's Washington Post, based on anonymous interviews with US intelligence officials. The report said that only some 5,000 Americans had had their conversations recorded or e-mails read since the programme was launched following the September 11 terrorist attacks. However, in order to identify those targets, hundreds of thousands of calls and e-mails are first scanned and subject to computer filtering in order to identify the smaller number deemed suspicious.
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/24f9f56e-96b5-11da-a5ba-0000779e2340.html

monkey said:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on Monday defended the Bush administration's domestic eavesdropping program as an indispensable tool to protect the country from terrorism, denying accusations the White House broke the law.

"The terrorist surveillance program is both necessary and lawful," Gonzales told the Senate Judiciary Committee, whose Republican chairman, Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, questioned its legality.

"This administration has chosen to act now to prevent the next attack with every lawful tool at its disposal, rather than wait until it is too late," Gonzales said, arguing that seeking more explicit authorization from the U.S. Congress would have spilled intelligence secrets and wasted time.

monkey said:

I want one of the Senators to tell Gonzo to STOP using the term "terrorist surveillance program"...

We know it's a talking point, ok Gonzo?

We heard your boss begin using it over the last few weeks, and even though he managed to say it correctly several time, we're not impressed.

How about that "terrorist training program" you have going on simultaneously?

chuck said:

Security at home: The government can't eavesdrop on you without a warrant

Security of democracy: no unitary executive in America

Security at work: decent jobs for a strong future

Strength in wisdom: our kids get the best education in the world

Strength in democracy: America is not a K-Street Project

Truth for a change

Time to change

Thanks to all who contributed to the above. Who care's who gets the credit if we all get the benefit?

God Bless and GOTV 2006!

Chuck in Doha

chuck said:

Some folks are born
Made to wave the flag
Ooh, they're red white and blue
But when the band play
"Hail to the Chief"
Ooh they point the cannon at you

It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no Senator's son, son
It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one

...

Some folks inherit
Star-spangled eyes
Ooh they'll send you down to war
But when you ask them
How much should we give?
Ooh the only answer is more, more, more...

It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no military son, son
It ain't me
It ain't me
I ain't no fortunate one

Chuck in Doha (military son, aka USAF Brat)

monkey said:

Chuck...

My dad USAF as well.

It ain't me, either.

madame defarge said:

OT (sort of) but a good follow-on to chuck's GOTV...

Election officials fear '06 season of the glitch
This fall, millions to use unfamiliar voting machines
WASHINGTON — Millions of Americans will be looking at new and unfamiliar voting machines when they cast their ballots this year, perhaps the most rapid changeover of voting equipment in history. With that change comes an increased risk of errors and confusion, election officials say.
--snip--
Brace's latest update, to be released today, shows that at least 647 of the nation's 3,114 counties will be using new voting machines this year, more than at any time since records began in 1980 and probably ever, he said. Those jurisdictions are home to 30.6 million registered voters, or almost a fifth of the national total.
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20060206/a_elections06.art.htm

Action item:
- Find out if you county will be using new voting machines.
- If so, find out now if & how you can be an election official/pollwatcher/voter assistant

Here's a site that has election information by state ==>
http://www.nass.org/electioninfo/state_contacts.htm

chuck said:

Oh well, at the end of the day, Pittsburg has the Steelers, and Seattle has the Sound, the Olympics, the North Cascades, Ranier, Microsoft, Boeing....

OK -- sour grapes.

Congrats Steelers fans!

Chuck in Doha
(came up in SE Portland, OR)

monkey said:

... and once again, the media is getting blasted by this administration, even though they use them like whores to get their message out. It is NEVER the administration at fault.

Hmmm, maybe the bought and paid for media said, 'Go ahead, blame us, we'll deal with it.'

I'm sure FAUXNEWS had it correct all along, though.

chuck said:

Monkey:

Guess that means: "It ain't us!"

Chuck in Doha

PS: Off we go, into the wild, blue yonder
Flying high, into the sun. Down we dive, spouting our flames from under, at 'em boys! Give 'em the gun! Here they come, rising to meet our thunder; off we go, with a terrible roar. We'll go up in fame or down in flames but nothing can stop the [Army Air/US Air] [Corps/Force]

chuck said:

Also, Monkey, I refuse to believe that my dad volunteered for the US Army Air Corps in December of 1941 so that we could urinate away the Bill of Rights in 2006 because some lunatics succeeded in murdering 3000 of our fellow citizens in September of 2001.

God Bless you, dad!

Chuck in Doha

PS: Sorry if that sounded crude; I meant it in a good way. My dad was career Air Force - he had good grammar but his adjectives and adverbs tended toward the colorful, and I guess try as I might I am still a chip off the old block.

ralpheh said:

HEY,

Thanks for posting that picture of the Georgetown students protesting Gonzales...

BEAUTIFUL!!!!

a picture is worth a thousands words, right

BTW Gonzales's speech is archived at C-Span but I didn't see that C-span's camera got a shot of the banner - Although I didn't go through the entire 1 1/2 hour presentation. During the protest Gonzales just continued to speak as if nothing unusual was happening right in front of him. Several students stood up, facing away from Gonzales, during the entire speech.

chuck said:

Chuck in Doha for Madame Defarge:

OK, updated (see: Point 2):

1) Security at home: The government can't eavesdrop on you without a warrant

2) Security of democracy: no unitary executive in America, separation of powers, every vote counts, every voter counts, every vote is counted (keep it simple, stupid); and America is not a K-street Project

3) Security at work: decent jobs for a strong future

4) Strength in wisdom: our kids must have the best education in the world

5) Truth for a change

6) Time to change

Chuck in Doha

ralpheh said:

Thanks for posting the picture....

chuck said:

You know, as long as no one is posting, "Security at Home" means more that just the peace of mind of knowing that the government isn't listening in on you, and that yourpersonal affairs are truly private. It also means we as a people don't go to war for lies, but only as a last resort, which also means we get together with our friends in other lands to nip trouble in the bud over here and over there before things get out of hand. We can do it if we are truly strong.

Keep the Faith and GOTV 2006!

Chuck in Doha

DiAnne said:

Chuck in Doha

Yes, my dad would be rolling over in his grave.
He was in the US Army in the Pacific in WW2.
My Republican Uncle hates this system and my
Republican Mom just told me, "The Chinese
own us now."

Foreign papers are covering what's happening in the Senate and they are using the "I" word. What is Karen Hughes going to do about that?!

DiAnne said:

Here is an example from Le Figaro, which is one of the more conservative in France:

« L'impeachment pourrait être un remède »
(This is my translation)

"Impeachment" could be a remedy

For three weeks, the president of the commission, even though Republican, hasn't hesitated to support that, if the Congress concluded that George W. Bush had violated the law, "impeachment (procedure of dismissal, note) would be a remedy". And he added Sunday, by explaining the surveillance: "It is a clear violation of the law on foreign information (Fisa)" of 1978 which requires that a grant of representation be delivered by a special court.

The left maintains a very strong pressure on this business, which worries the defenders of civil freedoms. The MoveOn.org organization started besides to disseminate a clip comparing George W. Bush to Richard Nixon, the president forced to resign in 1974 by a political spying affair after Watergate.

Washington Post moreover published Sunday a long investigation where it affirms that the conversations and emails of 5.000 Americans were undoubtedly spyed on within this framework, whereas only ten people by the end of summer were considered to be suspicious enough that more thorough investigations are ordered.

chuck said:

DiAnne:

That must be tough having a GOP mom, except when you think of it as the party of Lincoln! My mom's a fifth generation Northern Virginia Democrat, but I have to question some of their motives post 1965. My dad was a Chicago Democrat and I doubt any of his ancestors ever voted GOP once, once they got here.

Anyhow -- Karen Hughes: yep, there's an effective spokesperson reaching out to grass-roots public opinion around the world -- NOT! If I thought on it a good long time I could probably come up with a worse candidate -- sort of like Bolton at the UN -- but I don't have that much time!

Chuck in Doha

chuck said:

PS to my above -- not my mom's motives, but some of her people

Chuck in Doha

PPS: Sorry about the lack of exactitude, mom!

spinnaker said:

Security at home means that the government has no goddamn right whatsoever, absent a WARRANT for PROBABLE CAUSE, to conduct ANY TYPE OF SURVEILLANCE whatsoever, in my house, in my bedroom, in my church, in my blood, in my DNA, in my uterus or any of the blastocyst-americans that may be temporarily residing there.

And the sick thing is-we shouldn't have to make that case. WTF do they think is worth fighting for, if not the right to as little government intrusion in your life as is possible or necessary.

chuck said:

And that should be pre-1965, not post! Wow; I guess I'd better hit the sack soon. Getting real error-prone here.

Sorry.

Chuck in Doha

chuck said:

Spinnaker:

We shouldn't have to make that case, it should be self-evident, but looks like we have to. More importantly, we have to win that case, and we are out-moneyed and out-gunned. Guess we'll have to out-smart them and out-truth them and out-people them.

Chuck in Doha

chuck said:

Spinnaker:

I just thought of a motto/slogan: "Not on my watch"

Does that make sense in this context?

Chuck in Doha

ralpheh said:

POWELL'S AIDE, WILKERSON, SAYS IRAQ WMD CLAIM WAS A HOAX ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE:

(THIS APPARENTLY WAS BROADCAST FRIDAY ON PBS)
Friday February 3, 12:19 pm ET


NEW YORK, Feb. 3 /PRNewswire/ -- In an interview airing tonight on the PBS weekly newsmagazine NOW, Colin Powell's former Chief of Staff Lawrence Wilkerson makes the startling claim that much of Powell's landmark speech to the United Nations laying out the Bush Administration's case for the Iraq war was false.
"I participated in a hoax on the American people, the international community, and the United Nations Security Council," says Wilkerson, who helped prepare the address.

The NOW report, which airs days before the third anniversary of Powell's speech, examines the serious doubts that existed about the key evidence being used by the American government at the very time Powell's speech was being planned and delivered.

"I recall vividly the Secretary of State walking into my office," Wilkerson tells NOW. "He said: 'I wonder what will happen if we put half a million troops on the ground in Iraq and comb the country from one end to the other and don't find a single weapon of mass destruction?'" In fact, no weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.

NOW, hosted by David Brancaccio, airs Friday nights at 8:30 on PBS (check local listings).


PRESS CONTACT:
Rick Byrne
NOW
Ph: 212.560.8406
Email: ByrneR@thirteen.org


NonnyO said:

Posted by: spinnaker at February 6, 2006 12:32 PM

YES.... Spinnaker knows, and is completely correct!

I agree, and I'd add, under the Fourth Amendment, not in my computer or my phone lines either!!! I pay monthly fees for my right to talk on the phone if/when I want to (which is why I pay extra for caller ID, so I can choose when/if I want to answer the phone), and be on my computer and/or connected to the internet when it's convenient for me - not when it's convenient for anyone else...!

Government interference (from a fascist corporation writing their own laws) can only begat an internet FUBAR...!

THE END OF THE INTERNET?
Jeffrey Chester, The Nation
America's big phone and cable companies want to start charging exorbitant user fees for the supposedly-free internet.
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/31753/

chuck said:

Oh well, reverting to the Seattle theme:

"Well I stand up next to a mountain
"Chop it down with the edge of my hand"

Beat that, Pittsburg!

Chuck in Doha

PS: Sounds better with Jimi Hendrix playing guitar... Voodoo Child (Slight Return)

DiAnne said:

Sledgehammer:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/tmw.jpg

Chuck:
Right on!
Andy Warhol was born in Pittsburg but quickly moved to New York City.

DiAnne said:

Spinnaker
I love your definition of security and agree with it. On the political compass, I come out "libertarian liberal" but that is simply a person who wants to go about life without unnecessary, unproductive government interference.

Now if the government would get down to making peoples' quality of life better ..

chuck said:

DiAnne:

That's Mr. Jimi Hendrix, Garfield HS, Seattle WA!

Chuck in Doha
ex-Cleveland HS, Portland, OR

PS: Garfield was a Republican and Cleveland was a Democrat if memory serves

NonnyO said:

Was or is the judicial committee meeting online??? I've been trying to switch back and forth between the three C-SPAN channels online, and I didn't find it.

Right now I'm on the first C-SPAN channel and ol' Scotty is doing his usual double-speak dance and avoiding answering questions in a news conference, but I've missed the judiciary meeting.... and I wanted to see it (even though Godzilla was not under oath and lied anyway).

chuck said:

And to end on a positive and international note, courtesy of Brother Bob Marley:

Live if you want to live
(rastaman vibration, yeah! positive!)
That’s what we got to give!
(i’n’i vibration yeah! positive)
Got to have a good vibe!
(iyaman iration, yeah! irie ites!)
Wo-wo-ooh!
(positive vibration, yeah! positive!)

If you get down and you quarrel everyday,
You’re saying prayers to the devils, I say. wo-oh-ooh!
Why not help one another on the way?
Make it much easier. (just a little bit easier)

Say you just can’t live that negative way,
If you know what I mean;
Make way for the positive day,
’cause it’s news (new day) - news and days -
New time (new time), and if it’s a new feelin’ (new feelin’), yeah! -
Said it’s a new sign (new sign):
Oh, what a new day!

Pickin’ up?
Are you pickin’ up now?
Jah love - jah love (protect us);
Jah love - jah love (protect us);
Jah love - jah love (protect us).

Rastaman vibration, yeah! (positive!)
I’n’i vibration, yeah! (positive!) uh-huh-huh, a yeah!
Iyaman iration, yeah! (irie ites!) wo-oo-oh!
*positive vibration, yeah! (positive!)

Pickin’ up?
Are you pickin’ up now?
Pickin’ up?
Are you pickin’ up now?
Pickin’ up? (jah love, jah love -)
Are you pickin’ (protect us!) up now?
Pickin’ up? (jah love, jah love -)
Are you pickin’ (protect us!) up now?
Pickin’ up? (jah love, jah love -)
Are you pickin’ (protect us!) up now?
Pickin’ up?
Are you pickin’ up now?

Chuck in Doha

NonnyO said:

Neffer mind.... I just found it on the first C-SPAN channel; they cut away from Scotty's lying to go back to the judiciary hearing.... ;-/

DAnne said:

Chuck
Bruce & Brandon Lee are buried in Seattle, & Jimi Hendrix. Alot of people come looking for the grave of Curt Cobain but I think that's around Aberdeen. We have a number of pilgrims from around the world who come seeking them, just as we went to Paris to Pere La Chaise cemetery to pay homage to Jim Morrison. I enjoyed telling the son of a Texas Republican how to get there (he planned to break away from the family for a final night on his own).

Otter said:

Well, picking up on the feminist theme of spinnaker's and DiAnne's recent posts... it's not entirely OT to point you to, and print some choice excerpts from, a long but literally kick-ass rant that Liza Sabater posted yesterday over on culturekitchen.com, a relatively young but growing activist blogsite that I visit on a regular basis:


=============


Dear Vichy Democrats and Republicrats:

You leave me no choice but to kick your sorry pregnacist asses out of my government.

[snip]

I am fed up with what I think is a lack of vulvas, not cojones, effecting the political discourse around choice. We need more feminists raising money, evaluating and promoting candidates, getting on the TV and radio and newspapers and the net and blasting over and over and over again that forced pregnancies are anti-American, that forced pregnancies are a new kind of slavery, that forced pregnancies are a fundamental crime against humanity.

[snip]

We need to have more women speak like this publicly to all candidates, Democrats and Republicans ... I think we all should look into creating a PAC, a feminist bloggers PAC. Lorraine also had the brilliant idea of creating a "Candidate of the Week" feature where we look at candidates across the country that look good from a feminist and pro-choice point of view.

I'd like to add to that a "Judge Watch". We need to start taking a real serious look at people who are on the bench at the moment and get ready for a possible replacement to Justice Stevens.

[snip]

I also believe that we should be taking seriously the idea of networking our blogs with the meme, the message. If we blog once about candidates and/or issue involving their selection and endorsement, at the end of the week we all should have a round-up of all links published, just like the gossip bloggers do. It will center the attention and focus on the messages we want to put out. Because, we really do not have to "on message" as much as committed to get our side of the story consistently out there.

[snip]

The bottom line is that we need to do what many of these fine advocacy and political institutions do not do: We need to create such a critical mass that we become irrelevant because we've created a movement and not a popularity contest.

[snip]

So who's in; what do you want to do and when do you want to start doing it?


===============


You can read much more of Liza's loquacious logic and activist action calls in the full-length blog post at: http://tinyurl.com/9ml4f

Liza's got a lot of good ideas there that we can use here too. And besides, her stuff's always worth reading -- which, alas, is more than I can say about my own sometimes...


yeah but when I'm good I'm darn good,
Otter

DiAnne said:

Chuck
About my mom .. she was a Young Republican and stayed with the party of her family, but I don't think she'll be voting that way again. She is retired and goes down to the "German table" at the local restaurant and there she talks common sense to the predominantly "red" crowd. It does take some courage so I'm proud of her.

Meanwhile my Republican uncle who used to take me to the Republican convention (of MN) sends me articles about impeachment, culture of corruption etc. I think his son & I have had some influence on him but I also think he's pretty freaked out! he tends to be fiscally conservative and they've blown that entirely.

DiAnne said:

Otter
Nice to see a man post that (Lizza's rant) - as it's logical and speaks to why anyone would be pro-choice and resent having their life and those of their progeny controlled by external forces. The economy and political situation already dictate far too much, without adding reactionary governments and oppressive religious patriarchs.

Well I am doing a nice job of procrastinating about cleaning my upstairs on my day off ..

NonnyO said:

BUSH'S TROUBLING SOTU GUEST
Jeremy Scahill, AlterNet
Cindy Sheehan wasn't welcome -- but a Saudi accused of supporting al Qaida was. Why?
http://www.alternet.org/story/31787/
{{{VER-R-R-RY In-ter-es-ting!!!}}}

A CREDIBILITY 'GAP'
Steve Benen, AlterNet
Bush critics worry that the White House may have deleted Plame-related emails during a 12-hour head start in the CIA leak probe. The delay is worse than they think.
http://www.alternet.org/story/31796/

Joshua Holland: has mass psychosis hit Washington?
The week in review...
http://alternet.org/blogs/themix/31840/

Otter said:

DiAnne, et al:

If you like that rant, you'll *definitely* want to bookmark this link too: http://www.blogsheroes.com


(Oh, and btw... anybody who wants to visit Cobain's grave had better be a salmon, because he was cremated and his ashes were scattered in the Wishkah River. And Jimi Hendrix is taking an eternal nap down in Renton, under a lovely big domed marble monument in Greenview Memorial Park. But Bruce and Brandon Lee are still sleeping in Seattle; more specifically, they're in plot # 276, on the east side of the circular driveway in the center of Lake View Cemetery, at GPS coordinates 47.6333, -122.3158 ...)


just a few loose tidbits from my endless supply of useless information,
Otter

monkey said:

I enjoyed telling the son of a Texas Republican how to get there (he planned to break away from the family for a final night on his own).

Posted by: DAnne at February 6, 2006 01:48 PM

... and for that, he's going to hell.

NonnyO said:

Tom Engelhardt | Beam Me Up, Scottie!
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606M.shtml
Tom Engelhardt writes: Just in case you hadn't noticed, we're in a Bushworld too absurd for words. But that hasn't stopped this administration from yakking its collective head off.
Excerpt:
Club Homeland Detention: Halliburton, the first corporation into Iraq, contractually speaking, and the biggest financial winner in the "reconstruction" sweepstakes for that deconstructed country, fortuitously also found itself perched right atop the list of post-Katrina New Orleans reconstruction contractors. Now, through its subsidiary KBR, known for building military bases to last, as well as Guantanamo's infamous "cages," Halliburton gets a shot at the real American thing - actual emergency detention centers for "immigrants" - or, hey, in a crisis, for whomever. The Army Corps of Engineers awarded it a contract last month - though the story only oozed out this week - worth up to $385 million (not including the near-obligatory overcharges) for, according to the New York Times, "an unexpected influx of immigrants, to house people in the event of a natural disaster or for new programs that require additional detention space." It's those "new programs" that give special pause.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHAT ~ ?!?!?!?!?!? WHERE??? WHY??? (Real reason, not the LIE stated!)

DiAnne said:


Conservatives Break with Bush on Spying
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606J.shtml
The skeptics include leaders of conservative activist groups, well-known law professors, veterans of Republican administrations, former GOP members of Congress, and think tank analysts. The conservatives said they are speaking out because they object to the White House's attempt to portray criticism of the program as partisan attacks.

Steve Benen | A Credibility 'Gap'
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606N.shtml
Steve Benen writes: Gonzales did not immediately alert the White House staff to the investigation, explaining the need to safeguard germane documents. Instead, he asked Justice Department lawyers if he could notify the staff in the morning. Could aides have used the 12-hour gap to conceal incriminating emails that pointed to staffers' role in exposing the identity of an undercover CIA agent?

Telecoms Let NSA Spy on Calls
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606O.shtml
The National Security Agency has secured the cooperation of large telecommunications companies, including AT&T, MCI and Sprint, in its efforts to eavesdrop without warrants on international calls by suspected terrorists, according to seven telecommunications executives.

monkey said:

From the truthOut artcile referenced by Dianne above...

Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, said that if investigators need more time to fill out the warrant application, Congress should change the law to extend the deadline. But, he said, court orders ought to remain part of the process to ensure that government surveillance power is never used against the political enemies of whomever is in power.

"Some liberals think of gun owners as terrorists," he said.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606J.shtml

P.S. Larry Pratt, good points, but as to your quote, go f*ck yourself.

Otter said:

Aw shoot, monkey!


chitty chitty bang bang,
Otter

Otter said:

NonnyO:

This is from a news article on the KBR deal that was printed on 1/30/06 in the San Bernadino County Sun. The real story is in the last six paragraphs:


===============


DEAL STRUCK TO BUILD IMMIGRATION JAILS
KBR, Feds Sign Deal For Jails


A Houston-based construction firm with ties to the White House has been awarded an open-ended contract to build immigration-detention centers that could total $385 million -- a move that some critics called questionable.

The contract calls for KBR, a subsidiary of the oil engineering and construction giant Halliburton, to build temporary detention facilities in the event of an "immigration emergency," according to U.S. officials.

"If, for example, there were some sort of upheaval in another country that would cause mass migration, that's the type of situation that this contract would address," said Jamie Zuieback of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE. "Essentially, this is a contingency contract."

Under the contract awarded by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, KBR could also be assigned to operate one or more temporary detention facility, and develop a plan for responding to a natural disaster in which ICE personnel participate in relief efforts. The contract, which does not specify locations for the detention facilities, is good for one year, with the option for four one-year extensions.

The open-ended nature of the contract -- described as "indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity" -- raises concerns about overcharging and other potential abuse, said Charlie Cray, director of the Washington-based Center for Corporate Policy and a frequent Halliburton critic.

The Government Accounting Office has criticized both Halliburton and KBR for cost overruns and inappropriately obtaining government projects under a similar contingency-based program connected to reconstruction work in Iraq, Cray said.

[snip]

Halliburton's billions of dollars in revenue from federal contracts -- many of them awarded without competitive bidding -- have made it a frequent target of critics who accuse the Bush administration of cronyism.

KBR also has faced allegations that, through subcontractors, it hired numerous illegal immigrants to perform rebuilding work in the Gulf Coast region following Hurricane Katrina and paid them subminimum wages. The company's hiring practices in Iraq have come under scrutiny for the alleged exploitation of foreign workers.

[snip]

There's no guarantee that any work will be performed under the contract; if no immigration emergency or natural disaster occurs, there won't be anything for KBR to do, said company spokeswoman Cathy Mann.

However, outside events have prompted large waves of immigration in the past. Political upheaval and changes in immigration policy in nations such as Haiti, Cuba and Rwanda have caused an influx of immigrants and refugees from those countries at different times.

Additionally, ICE is planning to increase the capacity of its detention facilities around the country, Zuieback said, particularly after Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff pledged to end the agency's unofficial "catch-and-release" policy for some illegal immigrants.

Because ICE's detention facilities are frequently full, there is nowhere to hold illegal immigrants who must have a hearing before they can be deported. This includes most immigrants from nations other than Mexico. In the past, those illegal immigrants have been issued an order to appear for their court date, and then simply released into the United States. The vast majority never show up for the hearings.

Although increasing the number of beds available in detention facilities would address the issue, Zuieback said ICE also is working on agreements with several other countries that would allow the expedited deportation of illegal aliens from those nations. These agreements would remove the requirement for a hearing in front of an immigration judge.

"Part of the reason why expedited removal is so important is you can create more beds by moving those people out of there faster," she said.


Full article is here: http://sbsun.com/news/ci_3451385


===============


So, as you can see, it's about making sure we have plenty of cattle-pen space to hold all them pesky furriners at oncet so's we can hurry up and boot 'em all back to whatever gawdfersaken places they sneaked in here from...


round 'em up herd 'em out,
Otter

monkey said:

Did you say bang bang?

For the first time in more than 20 years, U.S. nuclear-weapons scientists are designing a new
H-bomb, the first of probably several new nuclear explosives on the drawing boards.

If they succeed, in perhaps 20 or 25 more years, the United States would have an entirely new nuclear arsenal, and a highly automated fac- tory capable of turning out more warheads as needed, as well as new kinds of warheads.

"We are on the verge of an exciting time," the nation's top nuclear weapons executive, Linton Brooks, said last week at Lawrence Livermore weapons design laboratory.

Teams of roughly 20 scientists and engineers at the nation's two laboratories for nuclear-explosive design — Livermore and Los Alamos in New Mexico — are in a head-to-head competition to offer designs for the first of the new thermonuclear explosives, termed "reliable replacement warheads" or RRWs.

Designers are aiming for bombs that will be simpler, easier to maintain over decades and, if they fell into terrorists' hands, able to be remotely destroyed or rendered useless. Once the designs are unveiled in September, the Bush administration and Congress could face a major choice in the future of the U.S. arsenal: Do they keep maintaining the existing, tested weapons or begin diverting money and manpower to developing the newly designed but untested weapons?

Administration officials see the new weapons and the plant to make them as "truly transformative," allowing the dismantlement of thousands of reserve weapons.

more... http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_3480733

It's ok for us, but nobody else I guess.

W: an escalator, not a uniter.


NonnyO said:

I don't know whether to laugh or cry hysterically....

I'm listening to Godzilla just butcher and torture the American English language with more LIES in any space of sixty seconds than I have ever heard...!!! Ever! And, I'm old and have heard a lot of lies from different people in my lifetime!

I'm getting a migraine just listening to Godzilla's LIES, LIES, AND MORE LIES...!!!

monkey said:

Senator John Kerry's statement on the President's proposed budget:

"If budgets are a statement of your values backed up by dollars, then this President's priorities are sorely out of whack."

"The President is cutting money for veterans, child support enforcement, Medicare, student loans and food stamps so he can cling to deficit-exploding wasteful tax policy without giving one dime in tax relief to the 19 million middles class families who will pay higher taxes next year."

"I applaud the military pay raise and the President's newfound interest in clean energy and America's competitiveness. They are areas of reason in 2,400 pages of mess."

"This budget hurts America's seniors, veterans, students and working poor. It undermines the values of compassion, community and responsibility that define the best of America."

NonnyO said:

Posted by: Otter at February 6, 2006 03:08 PM

Many Thanks, Otter! I note illegal immigrants helped built "detention facilities" in which they may eventually be held.... OMFG, how low can this administration go?!?!?

I just finished an email tirade to my rep's assistant in the local office with the same info I already posted above, and now I'm going to go to your link and send him the follow-up story.

I've told him Congress MUST rein in this administration and MUST allow the Patriot Act to expire and MUST IMPEACH this administration. (I know, I know... I'm repeating myself. If repetition works for The Cretin's people, why can't I use repetition, too?!?)

Thanks again....

pcdoc said:

This country has a history of incarcerating its citizens when they are not sure if they are the enemy (remember the japanese in WWII). This time, its harder to tell who the "enemy" really is...but in their minds..."if you aint fer us...you must be agin us"...so by that logic...if you dont support the war in Iraq...you MUST be a terrorist simpathizer (or at least it is so hard for them to tell, they cant risk the chance that you are)...so the bottom line here folks is this: WE ALL MUST BE CONSIDERED POTENTIAl TERRORIST!

Personally, I am willing to sacrifice up to, and including ALL 51% who voted for GW (in another terrorist attack), rather than allow one REAL american citizens privacy to be violated.

NonnyO said:

Posted by: pcdoc at February 6, 2006 05:08 PM

What doc said.....

NonnyO said:

Ray McGovern | Headed for Iran, Juggernaut Gathering Momentum
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606A.shtml
What President George W. Bush, FOX news, and the Washington Times were saying about Iraq three years ago they are now saying about Iran. After Saturday's vote by the International Atomic Energy Agency to report Iran's suspicious nuclear activities to the UN Security Council, the president wasted no time in warning, "The world will not permit the Iranian regime to gain nuclear weapons." Ray McGovern examines the Iran crisis.

Norman Solomon | The Iran Crisis: 'Diplomacy' as a Launch Pad for Missiles
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606C.shtml
Taking a close look at the illusions surrounding the Iran crisis Norman Solomon concludes that the current flurry of Western diplomacy will probably turn out to be groundwork for launching missiles at Iran. Unless we can prevent it.

NonnyO said:

Britain Defies US with Funding to Boost Safe Abortion Services
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606D.shtml
The British government will today publicly defy the United States by giving money for safe abortion services in developing countries to organizations that have been cut off from American funding.

{{{Good for the Brits and others like them!!!}}}

madame defarge said:

Proof you can use to dispel those Republican talking points...(posted in its entirety...apologies, but this is one of those new facts that tends to get overshadowed by Brangelina news or end up on page 38, lower right corner where you'll never find it...)

The CIA Leak: Plame Was Still Covert

Feb. 13, 2006 issue - Newly released court papers could put holes in the defense of Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, in the Valerie Plame leak case. Lawyers for Libby, and White House allies, have repeatedly questioned whether Plame, the wife of White House critic Joe Wilson, really had covert status when she was outed to the media in July 2003. But special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald found that Plame had indeed done "covert work overseas" on counterproliferation matters in the past five years, and the CIA "was making specific efforts to conceal" her identity, according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion. (A CIA spokesman at the time is quoted as saying Plame was "unlikely" to take further trips overseas, though.) Fitzgerald concluded he could not charge Libby for violating a 1982 law banning the outing of a covert CIA agent; apparently he lacked proof Libby was aware of her covert status when he talked about her three times with New York Times reporter Judith Miller. Fitzgerald did consider charging Libby with violating the so-called Espionage Act, which prohibits the disclosure of "national defense information," the papers show; he ended up indicting Libby for lying about when and from whom he learned about Plame.

The new papers show Libby testified he was told about Plame by Cheney "in an off sort of curiosity sort of fashion" in mid-June—before he talked about her with Miller and Time magazine's Matt Cooper. Libby's trial has been put off until January 2007, keeping Cheney off the witness stand until after the elections. A spokeswoman for Libby's lawyers declined to comment on Plame's status.

—Michael Isikoff

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179719/site/newsweek/

DiAnne said:

Plug for voting reform:

Republican leadership in Congress has resisted every call for real reform. Well, we can't wait any longer for Washington to act. The way to protect our elections is to go right to the source by reaching out to town and county election officials. In most areas, these officials have the power to ensure fair and accurate voting systems even if our federal government won't act.

Today, we call on our county election officials to demonstrate that their systems use paper-ballots that allow a) voters to verify their choices; and b) officials to conduct meaningful audits and recounts. Add your name to the call for accountability:

http://democracyforamerica.com/voting

Paper-ballot voting is the gold standard because it is the only way to ensure an auditable paper trail. Both the non-partisan Government Accountability Office and the bi-partisan Carter/Baker Commission have resoundingly condemned touchscreen electronic voting systems as lacking even the most basic security and reliability. In one test after another, electronic voting systems are failing at rates of 30% or higher.

DiAnne said:

The article about the US working on new nuclear weapons that can be rendered useless if in the hands of terrorists reminds me of the plot of the movie I saw last night, "Banlieu 13." I think the motto is not to trust the government. http://www.banlieue13-lefilm.com/site1/index.html

In the movie, the government makes sure a bomb gets into the hands of thugs who live in a suburb so out of control that a wall has been built around it. Then it hires a police undercover agent to infiltrate the thugs' compound and defuse the bomb, which it says is pointed at Paris by the thugs, whom it claims are terrorists. Their really plan is that the guy will detonate the bomb when he thinks he's defusing it and the troublesome suburb will be blown to smithereens, which will then be blamed on terrorists. However, a former thug figures it out and warns the cop, and the bomb does not go off. They take it back to Paris and trick the government official into admitting that he intended to blow up the troublesome suburb, and he unintentionally does so on public television!

Watching that was more fun than watching the Seahawks lose at the Superbowl, though I did both. This was also an interesting movie as it was made before the Paris riots and combines cyberpunk, Jackie Chan moves, MTV editing, guy movie and buddy movie, along with social commentary and it's violent but so over-the-top that it was not at one moment believable (like "Clockwork Orange" or "Trainspotting").

Anyway, that's the movie review. It's worth seeing just for the thugs. I saw it at the film festival but now Scarecrow has it. Scarecrow is the best video rental store in the entire universe, with more than 80,000 titles and whole sections devoted to country or director.

monkey said:

Reporter hits McClellan on taps: 'You know what happened to Nixon when he broke the law'

Published: February 6, 2006

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan got in a heated row with a White House correspondent at Monday's press briefing over President Bush's warrantless domestic spying program, RAW STORY has learned.

The questioner, outspoken liberal columnist Helen Thomas, has been covering the White House since President John F. Kennedy, asks McClellan if Bush should obey the law.

The relevant part of transcript follows. RAW STORY has confirmed the questioner was Helen Thomas. Crooks and Liars has the video.

#
Q: Does the president think he should obey the law? He put his hand on the Bible twice to uphold the Constitution. Wiretapping is not legal under the circumstances without a warrant.

MR. MCCLELLAN: Well, I guess you didn't pay attention to the attorney general's hearing earlier today, because he walked through very clearly the rationale behind this program.

Q There is no rationale --

MR. MCCLELLAN: And Helen, I think you have to ask --

Q -- (inaudible) -- the law.

MR. MCCLELLAN: I think you have ask are we -- well, he's not -- are we a nation at war.

Q That's not the question.

MR. MCCLELLAN: No, that is the issue here.

Q The question is, the point is, there are means for him to go to -- get a warrant to spy on people.

MR. MCCLELLAN: Enemy surveillance is critical to waging and winning war. It's one of the traditional tools of war.

Q But he says he doesn't have running room --

MR. MCCLELLAN: The attorney general outlined very clearly today how previous administrations have used the same authority --

Q That doesn't make it legal.

MR. MCCLELLAN: -- and cited the same -- and cited the very same authority.

Q (Inaudible) -- they broke the law, that's too bad.

MR. MCCLELLAN: And we're going to continue doing everything we can --

Q You know what happened to Nixon when he broke the law.

MR. MCCLELLAN: -- within our power to protect the American people.

This is a very different circumstance, and you know that.

Q No, I don't.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/White_House_press_secretary_gets_in_0206.html

Carol said:

Hey Seahawks fans,

I'd like to pass along my condolences - your team looked better than mine for much of the game. It was, however, destiny, and - since the Steelers have not been represented here, I'd just like to say "WHOO HOO!" We finally got the one for the thumb!


Just catching up on the news today - so much for Spector holding Gonzales' feet to the fire. Not swearing him in? Why not if he's going to tell the truth? Same old s*&t, different day.

DiAnne said:

Right on - I love Helen Thomas!!
She was honored by all the Presidents and this administration has considered her a thorn in their side. She is the honorable journalist everyone has been screaming for.

Here she socks it to Ari Fleischer - she has been at this for a long time. Write and thank her.
http://www.antiwar.com/comment/helen.html

Helen Thomas has written three books, including her latest, "Thanks for the Memories Mr. President" - buy her book, read her book
http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Thomas

Bush acting as imperial president
http://www.seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/76988_helen3.shtml

Carol said:

Zinger of the day?

"“I’m sorry, Mr. Attorney General.
I forgot you can’t answer any questions that might be relevant…” – Sen. Pat Leahy, 2/6/06"

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/06/im-sorry-mr-attorney-general/

NonnyO said:

Who Will Save America?
My Epiphany
By Paul Craig Roberts
Having eliminated internal opposition, the Bush administration is now using blackmail obtained through illegal spying on American citizens to silence the media and the opposition party.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11802.htm

The first half a dozen or so paragraphs are tedious, and the real meat of this article starts after that.... Good stuff!

madame defarge said:

That is a good one, Carol. I checked out Think Progress and found a couple of others -- in exchanges with Specter & Feingold

SPECTER: I don’t think you can use principle of avoiding a tough constitutional conflict by disagreeing with the plain words of the statute. Attorney General Gonzales, when members of Congress heard about your contention that the resolution authorizing the use of force amended the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act there was general shock.

GONZALES: We’ve never asserted that FISA has been amended. We’ve always asserted that our interpretation of FISA, which contemplates another statute and we have that here in the authorization to use force, those complement each other. this is not a situation where FISA has been overwritten or FISA has been amended. That’s never been our position.

SPECTER: That just defies logic and plain English.


In his State of the Union address, President Bush claimed, “Previous Presidents have used the same constitutional authority I have, and federal courts have approved the use of that authority.”

Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) pressed Gonzales to determine whether there is any evidence to justify this claim:

FEINGOLD: Let me first ask, do you know of any other President who has authorized warrantless wiretaps outside of FISA, since 1978, when FISA was passed?

GONZALES: Um, none come to mind, Senator. But maybe — I would be happy to look to see whether or not that’s the case.

FEINGOLD: I can take it as a no unless you submit something?

GONZALES: I can’t give you an answer.

FEINGOLD: Ok.

Exchanges like these and the one between Helen Thomas and Scotty Potty give me hope...

madame defarge said:

There has to be a word more powerful than corrupt. That word just isn't adequate to describe these guys...

Will Scooter Libby Graymail the CIA?
Will Scooter Libby, a neocon who helped orchestrate the war in Iraq, end up graymailing the U.S. government?

That seems to be one of the strategies being considered by the lawyers defending Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, who was indicted by special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald in the CIA leak case for lying to FBI investigators and grand jurors to cover up his (and possibly Cheney's) participation in the outing of CIA officer Valerie Wilson (nee Plame).

Graymail is a defense gambit not available to most criminal suspects. But years ago defense attorneys representing clients connected to the national security establishment--say, a former CIA employee gone bad--figured out a way to squeeze the government in order to win the case: claim you need access to loads of classified information in order to mount a defense--more than might truly be necessary. Of course, the government is going to put up a fight. It may release some information--but not everything a thorough defense attorney will say is needed. The goal is to get the government to say no to the informant. Then the defense attorney can attempt to convince the judge that without access to this material he or she cannot put up an adequate defense. If the lawyer succeeds, it's case dismissed. In such situations, the defendant is essentially saying, prosecute me and I'll blow whatever government secrets I can. Isn't that the act of a patriot?

Read the rest (if you can handle it...)
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames?bid=3&pid=57174

madame defarge said:

Compliments of Mr. Webster...

Entry Word: corrupt

Function: adjective

Text: having or showing lowered moral character or standards

Synonyms debased, debauched, decadent, degenerate, degraded, demoralized, depraved, dissipated, dissolute, perverse, perverted, reprobate, warped

Related Words crooked, cutthroat, dishonest, unethical, unprincipled, unscrupulous; contaminated, spoiled, tainted; bad, evil, immoral, iniquitous, nefarious, sinful, vicious, wicked

I kind of like degenerate...

NonnyO said:

Katherine Brengle : Echoes of Fascism: Rhetoric We've Heard Before :
Our current government promotes unquestioning patriotism, policies of torture and indefinite detainment without access to counsel, identification of Islamic terrorists as something all US citizens must live in fear of every day
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11809.htm

NonnyO said:

Feds seizing Canadian prescription drugs :
Minnesotans buying mail-order prescription drugs from Canada are having medications confiscated by U.S. Customs in escalating numbers, a step that has some worried that life-saving supplies may not reach customers
on time.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11810.htm

madame defarge said:

Ex-President Carter: Eavesdropping Illegal

HENDERSON, Nev. - Former President Jimmy Carter criticized the Bush administration's domestic eavesdropping program Monday and said he believes the president has broken the law.
"Under the Bush administration, there's been a disgraceful and illegal decision — we're not going to the let the judges or the Congress or anyone else know that we're spying on the American people," Carter told reporters. "And no one knows how many innocent Americans have had their privacy violated under this secret act."
--snip--
The former president also rebuked Attorney General Alberto Gonzales for telling Congress that the spying program is authorized under Article 2 of the Constitution and does not violate the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act passed during Carter's administration. Gonzales made the assertions in testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, which began investigating the eavesdropping program Monday.

"It's a ridiculous argument, not only bad, it's ridiculous. Obviously, the attorney general who said it's all right to torture prisoners and so forth is going to support the person who put him in office. But he's a very partisan attorney general and there's no doubt that he would say that," Carter said. "I hope that eventually the case will go to the Supreme Court. I have no doubt that when it's over, the Supreme Court will rule that Bush has violated the law."

The former president said he would testify before the Judiciary Committee if asked.

"If my voice is important to point of the intent of the law that was passed when I was president, I know all about that because it was one of the most important decisions I had to make."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060207/ap_on_re_us/eavesdropping_carter


Action item for tomorrow: call all the senators on the committee and demand that Specter call Pres. Carter as a witness in these hearings!!!

madame defarge said:

Here's the link to the Judiciary Committee:

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/committees.tt?commid=sjudi

(BTW, check out the home page of congress.org -- the photo of Clueless George giving the SOTU looks like he's giving us the finger instead...what a surprise...)
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/issues/alert/?alertid=8420426

NonnyO said:

The gullibility that led us into the last war could yet bring us a new conflict :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1702935,00.html

monkey said:

I hear drums, and not the kind I play...

BERLIN (AFP) - US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the United States does not rule out using military force against Iran to prevent it from obtaining nuclear weapons.

"All options, including the military one, are on the table," Rumsfeld said in an interview with Monday's edition of German financial newspaper Handelsblatt.

"Today, biological, chemical and radiological weapons are available which could kill tens of thousands of people," Rumsfeld said, in comments in German.

"There is a genuine possibility that these weapons could fall into the hands of people who behead innocent people and blow up children.

"The people of the free world must realize that they have been warned."

Rumsfeld said Iran must be prevented from developing a nuclear weapon.

"We know that terrorists are desperately seeking ever more deadly weapons.

"Iran is the main sponsor of terrorist organisations such as Hezbollah and Hamas," he told Handelsblatt.

more... http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060206/pl_afp/irannuclearpoliticsus_060206133541

DiAnne said:

We must demand that our votes be counted.

Handful of Races May Tip Control of Congress
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/020606F.shtml
Not since 1994 has the party in power - in this case the Republicans - faced such a discouraging landscape in a midterm election. The result is a midterm already headed toward what appears to be an inevitable conclusion: Democrats are poised to gain seats in the House and in the Senate for the first time since 2000.

Otter said:

FWIW, the third link in DiAnne's 7:33 pm comment in re more Helen Thomas is non-clickable as posted (at least when using the Firefox browser -- can't vouch for Internyet Exploder, since I refuse to have truck with it, ahem.) The actual working link, on my end anyway, is:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/76988_helen3.shtml


Ah, and I see here that the thesaurus section of http://www.thefreedictionary.com presents us with quite a plethora of handy equivalent terms to use for a certain something that a certain former former president who had much in common with a certain current president certainly became famous for protesting too bluntly that he was not a permanently historic example of, either...


CROOK - someone who has committed (or been legally convicted of) a crime

criminal, felon, malefactor, outlaw

offender, wrongdoer -- a person who transgresses moral or civil law

accessary, accessory -- someone who helps another person commit a crime

blackmailer, extortioner, extortionist -- a criminal who extorts money from someone by threatening to expose embarrassing information about them

briber, suborner - someone who pays (or otherwise incites) you to commit a wrongful act

coconspirator, conspirator, machinator, plotter -- a member of a conspiracy

desperado, desperate criminal - a bold outlaw (especially on the American frontier)

fugitive from justice, fugitive -- someone who is sought by law officers; someone trying to elude justice

gangster, mobster -- a criminal who is a member of gang

highbinder -- a corrupt politician

racketeer -- someone who commits crimes for profit (especially one who obtains money by fraud or extortion)

scofflaw -- one who habitually ignores the law and does not answer court summonses

stealer, thief -- a criminal who takes property belonging to someone else with the intention of keeping it or selling it

traitor, treasonist -- someone who betrays his country by committing treason

law offender, lawbreaker, violator -- someone who violates the law


(Me, I'm kinda fond of that "highbinder" word, myself... it's just so antiquated that it is automatically anti-neo... though I must admit that "scofflaw" is right up there, too.)


the citizenry had a word for guys like him then too,
Otter

NonnyO said:

Prof. Strauss and the neocon takeover
By Jim Silva
Have you seen the latest blockbuster? Like Star Wars, it's classic good
verses evil - a power hungry dictator plotting to seize control of a
goodly Republic. The twist is it's for adults. Ones who know reality is
stranger than fiction. You guessed it! This epic thriller is actually
your life, and it's called “The Fall of the Republic - Sleeping Through
the Revolution.” Here's a behind the scenes look:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11811.htm

Be afwaid; be vewy, vewy afwaid.....
Now, where is my tinfoil hat...?

I was about to read the news - first thing that caught my eye "Bush Slashes Domestic Budget" - afraid to read it. I know he wants to extend tax cuts for the rich beyond 10 years. I'm also nervous about doing our taxes this year. Tax time coincides with property tax time and we get hit doubly every year.

Bush wants to pare back or scrap 141 programs, with education, cancer research and community policing programs slated to take a hit.

(gist of the stories)

The poor will pay for the war.

monkey said:

Confidential
by The Radiators

PICKED UP THE LOCAL PAPER
TO CHECK OUT THE CLASSIFIEDS,
OFFER UP EMPLOYMENT,
CAUGHT MY HUNGRY EYES,
MAN SAID THE JOB IS YOURS BOY
IF YOU'VE GOT NERVES AND GUTS
KEEP YOUR BIG EYES OPEN
KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT
DON'T SAY A WORD, FOR WHAT YOU HEARD
BECAUSE IT'S CONFIDENTIAL
IT'S GETTING OUT ALL OVER TOWN
CONFIDENTIAL
DON'T MAKE A SOUND

I PICKED UP THE TELEPHONE
ON A FOUR PHONE PARTY LINE
THE WOMAN IN 16 B SAID
WHO'S HANGING ON THE OLD GRAPEVINE
AIN'T NOBODY BUT MISS SO AND SO
DRINKING WINE LIKE WATER
SHE'S UP FOR FOUR COUNTS OF B&E
DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH HER DAUGHTER
DON'T SAY A WORD OF WHAT YOU HEARD
BECAUSE IT'S CONFIDENTIAL
IT'S GETTING OUT ALL OVER TOWN
CONFIDENTIAL
DON'T MAKE A SOUND
DON'T TELL NOBODY ON THE STREET
THIS IS JUST BETWEEN YOU AND ME
YOU AND ME

PICK UP CHANNEL 9
ON MY OLD PHILCO TUBE
OLD MAN ON THE TALK SHOW
HE WAS ACTING KIND OF CRUDE
DON'T ASK ME ABOUT MY HABITS
CALL THEM DIRTY, FUNKY
SAW YOU AT THE MOTEL
CHECKING IN WITH YOUR UNCLE'S MONKEY

DON'T SAY A WORD OF WHAT YOU HEARD
BECAUSE IT'S CONFIDENTIAL
IT'S GETTING OUT ALL OVER TOWN
CONFIDENTIAL
DON'T MAKE A SOUND

NonnyO said:

Oh... Re: my 8:39 post.....

If the American people as a whole [the 51% who voted for that Criminal Cabal] are as gullible about the warmongering rhetoric about Iran as they were about Iraq, and neither they nor Lamestream Media asks about The Cretin's LIES leading up to another war based on false pretenses, I will give up in futility.... They will deserve whatever is dished out, even if the rest of us don't....

Also, what I couldn't see on the fuzzy little picture on WMP when Godzilla was talking in front of the Judiciary Committee earlier today (I was listening on the internet, not watching the picture), I did see when I watched The News Hour's longer excerpt of his opening statement.... Godzilla was smirking!!!!! Aaaarrrgh!!!

I did hear Leahy's disgust when he said: "“I’m sorry, Mr. Attorney General. I forgot you can’t answer any questions that might be relevant…” – Sen. Pat Leahy, 2/6/06"
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/02/06/im-sorry-mr-attorney-general/
Posted by: Carol at February 6, 2006 07:46 PM

The tone of contempt in Leahy's voice was palpable and priceless!!! I wish Lamestream Media would have run that sound byte and what led up to it over and over and over....

NonnyO said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060207/ts_nm/hurricanes_aid_dc
Mayor: New Orleans will seek aid from other nations
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - Shortcomings in aid from the U.S. government are making New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin look to other nations for help in rebuilding his hurricane-damaged city.
Nagin, who has hosted a steady stream of foreign dignitaries since Hurricane Katrina hit in late August, says he may seek international assistance because U.S. aid has not been sufficient to get the city back on its feet.

"I know we had a little disappointment earlier with some signals we're getting from Washington but the international community may be able to fill the gap," Nagin said when a delegation of French government and business officials passed through on Friday to explore potential business partnerships.

Jordan's King Abdullah also visited New Orleans on Friday and Nagin said he would encourage foreign interests to help redevelop some of the areas hardest hit by the storm.

"France can take Treme. The king of Jordan can take the Lower Ninth Ward," he said, referring to two of the city's neighborhoods.

[Click on link for more.... You Go, Ray!!! :-)]

ralpheh said:

ANOTHER DOWNING STREET MEMO???

This one seems a little far-fetched but it was in the British media - on their Channel 4:

Channel 4 News tonight reveals extraordinary details of George Bush and Tony Blair's pre-war meeting in January 2003 at which they discussed plans to begin military action on March 10th 2003, irrespective of whether the United Nations had passed a new resolution authorising the use of force.

Channel 4 News has seen minutes from that meeting, which took place in the White House on 31 January 2003. The two leaders discussed the possibility of securing further UN support, but President Bush made it clear that he had already decided to go to war. The details are contained in a new version of the book 'Lawless World' written by a leading British human rights lawyer, Philippe Sands QC.

President Bush said that:

"The US would put its full weight behind efforts to get another resolution and would 'twist arms' and 'even threaten'. But he had to say that if ultimately we failed, military action would follow anyway.''

Prime Minister Blair responded that he was: "solidly with the President and ready to do whatever it took to disarm Saddam."

But Mr Blair said that: "a second Security Council resolution would provide an insurance policy against the unexpected, and international cover, including with the Arabs."

Mr Sands' book says that the meeting focused on the need to identify evidence that Saddam had committed a material breach of his obligations under the existing UN Resolution 1441. There was concern that insufficient evidence had been unearthed by the UN inspection team, led by Dr Hans Blix. Other options were considered.

President Bush said: "The US was thinking of flying U2 reconnaissance aircraft with fighter cover over Iraq, painted in UN colours. If Saddam fired on them, he would be in breach."

He went on: "It was also possible that a defector could be brought out who would give a public presentation about Saddams WMD, and there was also a small possibility that Saddam would be assassinated."

Speaking to Channel 4 News, Mr Sands said:

"I think no one would be surprised at the idea that the use of spy-planes to review what is going on would be considered. What is surprising is the idea that they would be used painted in the colours of the United Nations in order to provoke an attack which could then be used to justify material breach. Now that plainly looks as if it is deception, and it raises some fundamental questions of legality, both in terms of domestic law and international law."

Also present at the meeting were President Bush's National Security Adviser, Condoleeza Rice and her deputy Dan Fried, and the Presidents Chief of Staff, Andrew Card. The Prime Minister took with him his then security adviser Sir David Manning, his Foreign Policy aide Matthew Rycroft, and and his chief of staff, Jonathan Powell.

Those present, as documented in Mr Sands' book, also discussed what might happen in Iraq after liberation.

President Bush said that he: "thought it unlikely that there would be internecine warfare between the different religious and ethnic groups."

http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1661

DiAnne said:

Ralpheh
That stuff on Channel 4 news was almost verbatim from what was reported a couple of days ago at http://www.guardian.co.uk. There is a guy with a "tell all" book coming out and I wouldn't be surprised if it was true.

I am surprised that Bush would use a word like "internecine" though!

I have a friend who is a postal worker and she worries about two potential job hazards:
disgruntled armed workers going on sprees
anthrax letters being posted

She often wonders why there was so little follow up on the Anthrax letters sent to Daeschle etc.
To my recall, some were also sent to the town where most of the tabloids are published - to their offices - and this was the same town where the 9/11 "pilots" had flight training to take off but not land. Then we never heard much more.

So I sent her a story from Al-Jaeera/English about a guy who was arrested for sending at least 200 hoax anthrax letters including one to Bush. She replied that she heard nothing about it in our media or at work. So I Googled it under News using the word "Anthrax" and found 11 illustrious sources, so maybe it wasn't newsworthy.

Elites TV, TX 
AXcess News, NV 
Earthtimes.org 
EiTB, Spain 
GameSHOUT 
Asbury Park Press
Edmonton Sun
Philadelphia Inquirer
Daily News Central, NV 

That is all. The Superbowl had over 5000 sources.

Toolmaker said:


I think its beautifull.
As bad as this adminstration is, important officials are finally starting to openly question as a matter of record, their honesty and integrity. You know in the back of their minds they wonder if they also have not had their phone calls and letters reviewed.

Helen Thomas is a Diamond shining in the sewer that has become the white house press corps. The rest of the corps should not be allowed to look her in the eye. Helen stands head and shoulders above her colleagues for nothing more than doing her job without compromise. God bless her.

The only downside is Iran. If push comes to shove opening another front in this "war" would provide Political cover and diversion from criminal acts, if only for a short while.

I am just glad to see republicans openly questioning the wisdom ( lack of) in our executive branch. It is about time and should be supported.

Toolmaker said:

"She often wonders why there was so little follow up on the Anthrax letters sent to Daeschle etc"


The anthrax sent to daschle was made in United States military research facilities. Anthrax exists in Bovine all over the world, but the particular anthrax sent was a manufactured version, weaponized is the term used by biomedical and defense industries.

There are very few places in the world that can manufacture anthrax to the level found in daschles office. The remnants can be traced due to chemical and milling procedures used. Manufacturing processes leave residue and particular impressions and marks on the spores themselves.
These came from high security Defense Laboratories managed by the United States Military.

dwahzon said:

Well, the wall is cracking -- Rove is threatening Congressional Republicans. From Insight Magazine via Huffpo,


The White House has been twisting arms to ensure that no Republican member votes against President Bush in the Senate Judiciary Committee’s investigation of the administration's unauthorized wiretapping.

Congressional sources said Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has threatened to blacklist any Republican who votes against the president. The sources said the blacklist would mean a halt in any White House political or financial support of senators running for re-election in November.

"It's hardball all the way," a senior GOP congressional aide said.

The sources said the administration has been alarmed over the damage that could result from the Senate hearings, which began on Monday, Feb. 6. They said the defection of even a handful of Republican committee members could result in a determination that the president violated the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Such a determination could lead to impeachment proceedings.

read the rest here...
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Rove2.htm

karen said:

Ralph and Dianne,

ANd we had it on the front page yesterday morning--it's the Five Minuites A Day suggested action...

So we'll leave it up for another day or so.

madame defarge said:

Posted by: dwahzon at February 7, 2006 07:20 AM

How virtuous & moral of KKKarl...

If that story is true -- and knowing KKKarl, why would we suspect it's false -- we should somehow post that on RW sites and call every senator on the Judiciary Committee (both parties) and tell them to vote with their conscience...

dwahzon said:

This poster at dailykos has done a really good job of summarizing the very lengthy Washington Post article on the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program and pulling out the highlights.

I recommend it if you want a good summary to forward to friends.

read it here...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/2/6/182832/6102

the WaPo article...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/04/AR2006020401373.html

NonnyO said:

And this one is in honor of the DCP! :)
http://www.progressiveu.org/192458-the-democratic-mantra
Posted by: nolies32fouettes at February 7, 2006 07:58 AM

I spotted a little poll on the right side of the screen at one part of that web site where it asks if the words 'under God' should be taken out of the Pledge of Allegiance (looks to be a web site for young people who don't know the original version of the Pledge or the history thereof), and there was a place for comments about it... so, I couldn't resist adding my two cents' worth:

I'm turning 60 this month... and I remember learning the ORIGINAL wording on the Pledge of Allegiance in first grade in 1952: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." I had to 're-learn' the Pledge of Allegiance in second or third grade to insert the words 'under God'... but I now do not say those two words if I'm in a crowd of people who are reciting the pledge.

What was wrong with the ORIGINAL version of the Pledge of Allegiance? Absolutely nothing. But the religious nuts have been trying to insert some kind of religion into politics for more than 50 years....

I also firmly believe in the First Amendment's separation of church and state. I do genealogy research and have multiple lineages who arrived on the Mayflower from Leyden, Holland - they'd gone there to escape having a state religion imposed on them in England, and the uncle of one of my ancestors was the first governor of "Plimouth" Colony. The First Amendment guarantees freedom OF and freedom FROM religion.

In today's America, religion is being talked about in conjunction with politics and it is unethical to mix the two (such as with Bush sigining a secret executive order to fund faith-based charities with tax dollars) - not to mention it's also "much ado about nothing" for the simple reason it's a divisive issue and distracts people from the subject of politics, and thus is an effective tool of the neoConservatives who don't want people to pay any attention to what they're doing to us with political deals with PACs and corporations writing legislation that favors big business - all of which is unethical and illegal, even if Congress has enacted really bad legislation through political deals.

If one talks politics, talk politics. If one wants to worship a supreme being, one should go to their local house of worship.... But never, ever mix religion and government/politics!

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

madame defarge said:

How did this get past us yesterday???

Alberto: President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader scale.

Wow. I had no idea cell phones & electronic surveillance were so old...

Otter said:

m. defarge:

Well, I understand that Washington is still really pooyied because it's taken the NSA 230 years to process all his intercepted emails...

...and that Lincoln had to give up his cell phone after the first week or two because there was no way he could recharge its batteries using a fireplace, a wooden shovel, and a piece of charcoal...

...but apparently, Roosevelt is still a retro kinda guy. Last I heard, he was still wiretapping telegraph lines and eavesdropping on Morse Code transmissions from all the ships at sea.


electrons just want to be free,
Otter

sparrow said:

Posted by: NonnyO at February 7, 2006 09:20 AM

NonnyO,

I know nolies32fouettes would agree with you on that.

nolies32 was disappointed that the Supreme court dodged a similar question a few years ago.

madame defarge said:

Posted by: Otter at February 7, 2006 10:42 AM

Wonder how good of a cell connection Washington got from the middle of the Delaware River...

"LaFayette, can you hear me now?"

ralpheh said:

Maybe we should mount a counter-offensive to Rove's and start calling Republican Senators in the Intelligence Committee.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
The White House has been twisting arms to ensure that no Republican member votes against President Bush in the Senate Judiciary Committee’s investigation of the administration's unauthorized wiretapping.


Congressional sources said Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove has threatened to blacklist any Republican who votes against the president. The sources said the blacklist would mean a halt in any White House political or financial support of senators running for re-election in November.


"It's hardball all the way," a senior GOP congressional aide said.


The sources said the administration has been alarmed over the damage that could result from the Senate hearings, which began on Monday, Feb. 6. They said the defection of even a handful of Republican committee members could result in a determination that the president violated the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Such a determination could lead to impeachment proceedings.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

ralpheh said:

Move on will air T.V. ad comparing Bush to Nixon!!! Whoopee, just like old times....

Dear MoveOn member,
At Senate hearings yesterday on the Bush administration's domestic spying program, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales tried to evade the simple truth: the president broke the law. But after one day, it's unclear if or when hearings will start again.

We can't let the administration off the hook. So it's up to all of us to keep the heat up, and make sure the focus is on the president's disdain for the rule of law.

We've put together a new, hard-hitting TV ad that reminds everyone about the last time a president thought he was above the law—morphing a photo of Richard Nixon into President Bush. To view the ad (it's really gripping) go to:

https://political.moveon.org/donate/notillegal-QT.html

You have to SEE this comment on my thread. Please feel free to respond!

http://www.progressiveu.org/comment/reply/1089/2643

Posted by: madame defarge at February 7, 2006 08:12 AM

Something needs to be done. These senators are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. But, maybe not.

From what I am hearing in red America, people have had it with Republicans, period. They don't like Bush anymore either. Thus, my next post.

Off topic (sorry) but I wanted you all to know....

For what it's worth.........

I posted something last week about listening to a gal in the hairdresser's here in this very rural, very midwestern, very very red state. Last week I told you all that this gal came in to the hairdresser's and said (without me bringing the subject up) that this country is going in the wrong direction. She was VERY distressed. We talked a bit, and I left.

Okay, today I was in a local restaurant, and a guy who grew up in the 70's was in there, reading the paper, and he was very angry, and very upset. He was telling the owner of the restaurant that the current administration is ruining our country. He looked like a blue collar worker, who had probably made it to management level. I listened for a moment, then joined in. He knows Iraq was a mistake, but thinks we are only in it for the oil. I got to tell him a little about why we are so addicted to war. He said he DOESN'T THINK WE CAN SURVIVE ANOTHER 3 YEARS OF BUSH AND THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION. He said he bets we will be embroiled in war for decades because of what George W. has started. He said EVERYONE he knows feels the same way. He thinks Bush will wait until his last 5 or 6 months in office and reinstate the draft, and he said from what he has heard from EVERYONE he knows in this area, they will NOT be voting for any more Republicans for a long time.

I thought it was interesting, because they say this is such a red state, and it used to be. I asked him if he traveled the state very much, and asked him what other people were saying, and what he thought the percentage was of people who didn't like Bush any more, and he said almost ALL. He is looking forward to the next election cycle. I did mention that although there is no proof, it is very possible that Bush has never won an election.

His reply? "Oh, hell, EVERYBODY knows that!"

The restaurant owner told him that he thinks there will be a revolution in America before Bush finishes his term.

These remarks are coming out of rural America, folks! People have had it!!!

I asked him if he gets any news from the internet, and he said no, he doesn't. I tried to steer him this way, but he gets his news on the local channel.


Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at February 8, 2006 01:07 AM

What makes this so interesting is that all these people brought the subject up. People are distressed over the state of our union. And they aren't just a little concerned, they are angry and disturbed.

Interesting comments on the NSA hearings on this blog:


For the past 10 years, I was a litigator in NYC specializing in First Amendment challenges (including some of the highest-profile free speech cases over the past few years), civil rights cases, and corporate and security fraud matters.

Live blogging the NSA hearings

The logistics of live-blogging from the Committee room were too complicated, so I am live-blogging the hearings off-site. I may be able to do it from the Committee room itself for the afternoon session, but I'd rather have full blogging abilities outside of the room than be in the room.

I understood that Gonzales was going to be sworn in. Apparently, Specter decided that he did not want him to be. I think that's a good debate to begin with -- why are Republicans so eager to avoid putting Gonzales under oath ? He's testifying as a fact witness, and his prior statements at issue -- including his false assuarances to Sen. Feingold at his confirmation hearings -- were under oath, so this testimony should be, too.

* * * * *

Feingold is doing exactly what he should be doing - creating a hostile and confrontational atmosphere, rather than a boringly congenial one where the Democrats meekly accept everything (see the Alito hearings). Feingold has been seriously heroic on several of these issues, and it is excellent to see him continuing that right from the beginning at these hearings.

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/02/live-blogging-nsa-hearings.html


DiAnne said:

White House Knew About the Levees Early

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,,-5607196,00.html

Also more articles coming in tomorrow's papers about Libby implicating Cheney.

Costs

Cost of the War in Iraq

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