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Freedom of the Press in Kenya and Elsewhere
If you have any doubt as to the importance of a free and independent press in a democracy, all you have to do is look at the lengths some will go to shut it down.
Yesterday, in predawn raids, armed and masked government troops stormed the offices of Kenya's largest newspaper, The Standard, and held employees at gunpoint while they destroyed computers, and damaged printing presses.
The Standard has written articles in recent weeks critical of President Mwai Kibaki and calling for independent investigation into government corruption at the highest levels.
In a simultaneous raid across town, gunman entered the studio of The Standard's sister television station, destroying its offices, equipment and taking it off the air.
While this move has split the cabinet, the reaction of the internal security minister, in statements to the press Thursday, claimed the raid was designed to protect state security, but neglected to elaborate on exactly what threat to state security the newspaper and television station posed.
"If you rattle a snake, you must be prepared to be bitten by it," Internal Minister John Michuki told reporters on Thursday.
When I saw this story I thought of the actions our country took to shut the press in Iraq, while simultaneously claiming it was spreading freedom and democracy there.
BAGHDAD - Iraq's U.S.-led administration Sunday shut down a newspaper that is a mouthpiece for Shi'ite cleric Moqtada Sadr, accusing it of publishing articles that incite violence against American troops.
Ali Yasseri, editor of the weekly al-Hawza newspaper, said dozens of U.S. troops padlocked the newspaper's offices after ordering staff to leave.
"They told us they would arrest us if we did not leave. They said our articles incite people against America," Yasseri told Reuters outside the newspaper offices.
Last July, the U.S.-led administration closed down another newspaper for inciting violence. The Arabic-language satellite television news channels Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya have also faced sanctions from the administration and the Iraqi Governing Council for allegedly violating the law.
The "law" in question was actually a "law" made up by the Coalition Provisional Authority which prohibits newspapers from creating instability through inciting violence against the coalition forces. In July 2003, the U.S.-led administration closed down another newspaper for inciting violence.
The Arabic-language satellite television news channels Al Jazeera and Al Arabiya have also faced sanctions from the administration and the Iraqi Governing Council for allegedly violating the law.
Referring to the shutdown of Sadr’s newspaper, freelance Iraqi journalist Omar Jassem told the Washington Post: “I guess this is the Bush edition of democracy.”
This is not a defense of the newspapers or the television stations in question, nor is it a statement about the authenticity of what was published or reported. This is a defense of the importance of a free press in a democracy.
In a democracy, a government should be open and transparent enough to endure criticism and investigation. And that's any democracy, whether it's Kenya, Iraq, or the United States.
It quite simply impossible to have a democracy without a free press. i don't know what you would call such form of government, but it's not a democracy.
In response to the Kenya's Internal Minister John Michuki's remark about rattlesnakes, a commentor from Kisima (Kenya) had this advice for the Kenya government:
This government of self-declared snakes better beware. There is an electorate of mongooses waiting to remove you.Kisima, Kenya
Other governments who would try to restrain or silence a free press would be wise to take heed of that advice as well.
I advocate reading foreign press, in English (or learn to read/have translated those not in English):
http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/bush-faces-nuclear-deal-fallout/2006/03/03/1141191852369.html
Bush faces nuclear fallout - good article from this Australian paper.
I never bothered to seek out foreign press - til 9/11/01 when I woke up & wondered what the hell had happened. We had Millenium warnings & I knew about the USS Cole & the African embassies .. but wondered what in the hell went wrong .. still do.
Posted by: nmp at March 3, 2006 11:36 AM
Not to put too fine a point on it nmp, but, DUH.
In a briefing the day before Katrina made landfall, Bush was told by National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield that Katrina might send water rushing over the tops of the levees and leave New Orleans flooded.
In an interview September 1, three days after landfall, Bush said, "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees."
White House spokesman Trent Duffy said he could not discuss Bush's "private conversations" and would not confirm anything "either way" about whether Brown had discussed the levee breaches with the president.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/03/katrina.brown/index.html
Ummmmm.... why the hell not? Is there some national security secrets that we don't want to give to our enemies?
A FREE PRESS would PRESS the White House on this.
Apathy Kills.
I am nearing the end of patience with the media. Yesterday's cheery readings of the rip-n-read stories about India's new source for nucular energy, contrasted with the hushed and concerned tones of Amy Goodman have driven me to the brink.
I love NPR and I love Pacifica, but the tension is unbearable.
DO SOMETHING!!! Or tell us what to do!!!
**beating head against wall**
Interesting article about how Dumbo created the Iraq scare.
http://hotstory.nationaljournal.com/articles/0302nj1.htm
ONLY TWO SENATE DEMOCRATS SIGN ONTO DEMAND FOR IRAQ WAR PLAN FROM BUSH: Boxer and Feingold
From United of Peace and Justice:
Legislation to Stop the War:
In the Senate, there is one lone bill:
S.Res.171, introduced by Russ Feingold (D-WI), only one co-sponsor: Sen. Barbara Boxer
Calls on the President to submit a report to Congress within 30 days describing the remaining mission of the Armed Forces in Iraq, a current estimate of the timeframe required to accomplish that mission, and a timeframe for the subsequent withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
Homeland Security Net Grows Daily:
Pay too much on your credit card and you could raise the alarm
By BOB KERR
The Providence Journal
28-FEB-06
PROVIDENCE, R.I. -- Walter Soehnge is a retired Texas schoolteacher who traveled north with his wife, Deana, saw summer change to fall in Rhode Island and decided this was a place to stay for a while.
So the Soehnges live in Scituate now and Walter sometimes has breakfast at the Gentleman Farmer in Scituate Village, where he has passed the test and become a regular despite an accent that is definitely not local.
And it was there, at his usual table last week, that he told me that he was "madder than a panther with kerosene on his tail."
He says things like that. Texas does leave its mark on a man.
What got him so upset might seem trivial to some people who have learned to accept small infringements on their freedom as just part of the way things are in this age of terror-fed paranoia. It's that "everything changed after 9/11" thing.
But not Walter.
"We're a product of the '60s," he said. "We believe government should be way away from us in that regard."
He was referring to the recent decision by him and his wife to be responsible, to do the kind of thing that just about anyone would say makes good, solid financial sense.
They paid down some debt. The balance on their JCPenney Platinum MasterCard had gotten to an unhealthy level. So they sent in a large payment, a check for $6,522.
And an alarm went off. A red flag went up. The Soehnges' behavior was found questionable.
And all they did was pay down their debt. They didn't call a suspected terrorist on their cell phone. They didn't try to sneak a machine gun through customs.
They just paid a hefty chunk of their credit card balance. And they learned how frighteningly wide the net of suspicion has been cast.
After sending in the check, they checked online to see if their account had been duly credited. They learned that the check had arrived, but the amount available for credit on their account hadn't changed.
So Deana Soehnge called the credit-card company. Then Walter called.
"When you mess with my money, I want to know why," he said.
They both learned the same astounding piece of information about the little things that can set the threat sensors to beeping and blinking.
They were told, as they moved up the managerial ladder at the call center, that the amount they had sent in was much larger than their normal monthly payment. And if the increase hits a certain percentage higher than that normal payment, Homeland Security has to be notified. And the money doesn't move until the threat alert is lifted.
Walter called television stations, the American Civil Liberties Union and me. And he went on the Internet to see what he could learn. He learned about changes in something called the Bank Privacy Act.
"The more I'm on, the scarier it gets," he said. "It's scary how easily someone in Homeland Security can get permission to spy."
Eventually, his and his wife's money was freed up. The Soehnges were apparently found not to be promoting global terrorism under the guise of paying a credit-card bill. They never did learn how a large credit card payment can pose a security threat.
But the experience has been a reminder that a small piece of privacy has been surrendered. Walter Soehnge, who says he holds solid, middle-of-the-road American beliefs, worries about rights being lost.
"If it can happen to me, it can happen to others," he said.
(Bob Kerr is a columnist for The Providence Journal. E-mail bkerr@projo.com.)
THREE BILLS IN THE HOUSE CALLING FOR END TO THE IRAQ WAR/OCCUPATION:
From United for Peace and Justice:
In the House of Representatives, a few courageous members of Congress have introduced legislation to end the war. UFPJ has endorsed the following legislation:
H.R. 4232 – End the War in Iraq Act of 2005, introduced by Rep. Jim McGovern (D-MA)
Cuts off all funding for U.S. military action in Iraq, but would allow spending on reconstruction. This is the strongest piece of legislation against the war. Current list of co-sponsors.
H.J.Res. 73 – Re-Deploy U.S. Forces from Iraq, introduced by Rep. John Murtha (D-PA)
Calls for the immediate end to the deployment of U.S. troops in Iraq and declares that the U.S. shall pursue security and stability in Iraq through diplomacy. Calls for an "over the horizon" presence of the marines in the region. Current list of co-sponsors.
H.Res. 543 – Withdrawal of United States Armed Forces From Iraq, introduced by Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-HI)
This is a discharge petition for H.J.Res. 55. If 218 members sign the discharge petition, the bill will be brought to the floor for debate and a vote. H.J. Res. 55, also known as the "Homeward Bound" bill, calls for the President to announce a plan for the withdrawal of all United States Armed Forces from Iraq, and to begin withdrawal by October 1, 2006. Signing the petition does not mean that the member of Congress supports H.J.Res 55, only that they agree to allow it to come up for debate and a vote. This may be our best chance to have a full debate about the Iraq War on the floor of the House. Current list of petition signers.
A
From my inbox...
There is more money being spent on breast implants and Viagra today than on Alzheimer'sresearch. This means that by 2040, there should be a large elderly population with perky boobs and huge erections and absolutely no recollection of what to do with them.
Posted by: battlebob at March 3, 2006 02:05 PM
I am fairly certain that what I just laughed thru my nose is generally impossible.
Take a hard left at Mammary Lane.
saw a bumper sticker that shook me, it said simply:
I Miss Freedom.
boy is that true especially when I read of high school students taping their teachers and then getting sympathetic support from right wingers in Colorado.
Posted by: battlebob at March 3, 2006 02:05 PM
That's a good one, BB. I'll remember that every time I see Dolly Parton, or have to listen to that creepy music they have on those Erectile Dysfunction pharmacutical ads. (I hate that music, well, make that I hate those ads. They play them over and over at newstime.)
What were we just talking about? Oh, yes, my new boobs. LOL.
Hard On Me
by Tom Petty
It's all I can do
To keep that little girl smiling
And keep my faith alive
Takes all I got, to hold on to tomorrow
And you want to make it hard
Yeah, you want to make it hard on me
Some other time
I'd be understanding
You were supposed to be
The friend that I needed, when I was down
And now you want to make it hard
You want to make it hard on me
Maybe if I tried, I could turn the other cheek
Maybe, but how big do I have to be?
Now you want to make it hard
Yeah, you want to make it hard on me
Maybe if I tried, I could turn the other cheek
Maybe, but how big do I have to be?
I need someone
To put their arm around me
Shelter me from all harm
Just as I find something to believe in
You want to make it hard
You want to make it hard on me
Yeah, you want to make it hard
You want to make it hard on me
I noticed in the AP breaking stories that General Casey has been enlisted to say that it is calm after the storm in Iraq. He also said the US military will continue to pay Iraqi media to disseminate US propaganda.
It will be interesting to see if Bush gets his way with Indian nuke parts for outsourcing trade, with Dubai port & military plane part factories, as he did with the Patriot Act.
I thought of another reason to read foreign press as well as ours - it shows which issues are deemed most important by those sources, so gives perspective. It's also possible to see patterns developing that will affect us later but that our media is ignoring.
My radio pattern is to know just what button to hit at what point on the commute so I can get NPR, BBC, Pacifica & quality music and nothing else. Except for magazines (& a few popups on computer), I haven't seen a commercial for days!
The Iraqi media is at least getting paid to spew the lies...MSM does it for free.
I don't think I posted this before
The Editors
The New York Times
re. Some Democrats Are Sensing Missed Opportunities
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/08/politics/08dems.html
What? The floundering D.C. Democrats are "sensing" missed opportunities? The fact is, they're being slapped in the face, and they don't even know it.
The Democrats look like they're weak on national security not because they're unpatriotic, but because they continue to show no courage about any of their convictions. Too much calculating. Too much positioning. Too much wishful thinking about how the Republicans will implode. And they all but lost the 2006 election when Robert Byrd supported Samuel Alito.
Republicans speak with conviction. You may disagree with them. You may think they're hypocritical. But they speak clearly and they're all on the same page. They're not afraid to be Republicans.
The Democrats need to stop being afraid of who might disagree with them on this or that fine-tuned point. Get a game face transplant. Show some conviction. Speak with courage. Stand up for something, and do it again and again. Give Democratic voters the feeling that there's actually something there to support.
Paul T. Wilson
Kalamazoo, Michigan
Very encouraging program: today's Diane Rehm Weekly News Roundup. The focus is on the many ways BushCo is shooting itself in the foot, recent Bush approval raitings in the 30's, Republican anger at their own regime & more. Also there is a discussion of the recent Zogby poll of soldiers in which ~85% thought they were in Iraq to avenge the US for Saddams role in 9/11 (?!?).
This page has link for the show's audio:
http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/06/03/03.php#10191
Also at this web page, audio links for her 2nd hour:
Interview with Bruce Bartletton his book "Impostor" (Doubleday)
The former Reagan White House aide slams Bush and his economic policies.
I haven't heard this one yet...
Good Post Ralpheh.
A person cannot be afraid to live as they believe. When you dont, it makes people suspicious and makes one appear untrustworthy.
The Gop is a lot of things, but you know what they believe in. I like the line of waiting to implode......
The Honorable Senator Hillary Clinton will probably take a shot at the Presidency...i just hope the DNC is smart enough to support her with strategy and not strategy meetings.
If the DNC cant get their act together replace them with someone that has the sense to stand and deliver.
Give Democratic voters the feeling that there's actually something there to support.
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 02:58 PM
Oh mighty my, I would have never thought I would read such a post as ralpheh...;and I've been wondering for some 10 mns if I should answer or not.
I've been watching you, and reading you for some 3 years now.
I share the same values as you do, but as a foreigner you really did seem weird to me, from time to time in your fight : where is your plan?
Don't tell me but, but, but (I read).
Where is your party line?
Can you put it in 10 proposals?
How are you going to develop them?
With whom?
There was a thead about the protest in Washington, some days ago, with wining about the cost.
Cost? We fought the nazis with our blood.
Hell, it's easier to complain each day in front of a screen, than to decide to invest for freedom. You've talking about it for so long, it's time to get upon the streets in order to catch the attention of those bloody media you crave about.
The system is rotten, but you have to pull it down.
As Indy said, Vive la Révolution!
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 02:58 PM
This is a daily topic among Dems...Do any Dems in any leadership capacity know the country is up for grabs?
These folks are huddled in the corner to afraid to speak up.
The leadership list is small. Forget about Ried and Pelosi; neither of them inspires anyone to do anything.
Clueless George in Pakistan today:
"I believe that a democratic, prosperous Pakistan will be a steadfast partner for America, a peaceful neighbor for India and a force for freedom and moderation in the Arab world."
A White House official later said Bush meant to say "Muslim world".
http://tinyurl.com/fbs6k = Reuters News
Maybe he didn't misspeak...
Maybe as part of the deal with India, he sold Pakistan to the Saudis...
Someone at DU has a fairly comprehensive list of George's failures...but of course, the day is still young...
http://tinyurl.com/rvwh5 = Democratic Underground thread
Interesting is no one is mentioning the fact that India won't sign the Nuc Nonproliferation treaty; the one we violated.
Also about Bush and outsourcing..This is another issued teed up for Dems running for office.
The idea is to have everyone play by the same rules.
Include health care, environemntal protection, fair wages, etc or face trade barriers.
The amount of cost transfer would be small.
So instead of that DVD player costing 49.95, it may cost 54.95 or roughly a 10% increase max...
madame-you are hilarious!!
Posted by: battlebob at March 3, 2006 03:55 PM
If you can make it to Evanston - Northwestern University - tomorrow, I promise you'll get an earful about this. Joe Cirincione, Director of Non-Proliferation at Carnegie Endowment for Peace, will be giving a free 2 hour talk. Here is where you can get more details...
http://www.nspipeace.org/
I've heard him before and he's amazing. The discussion tomorrow is supposed to be "Nuclear Proliferation & Iran" but from past experience, he will go off-the-cuff and talk about the latest breaking news instead, which in this case will be India. I'm going and will let you know what I find out.
Madame, and Battlebob,
In the meantime you don't seem to realize that the world is looking....EAST.
The rate of pupils learning Chinese in France, was multiplied by 2 in 3 years. And when I say pupils, they start learning Chinese in grade 1. To our population (little to you) that means 350 000 per year.
The world is turning ot East.
You are still in your Bush hangover.
Posted by: madame defarge at March 3, 2006 04:00 PM
Thanks for the offer but my brother(the FOB, not the right wingnut) and his wife are traveling from Chicago to GR for a long visit this weekend.
Posted by: Andrée - France at March 3, 2006 04:04 PM
Actually Andrée, my 8 year old daughter is learning Mandarin Chinese, Latin, Spanish, and French (a la Belge, bien sur). We know the future is in the East (or rather, to us, it's shorter via the west, as the crow flies).
And no, I'm not in a Bush hangover. I refuse to waste good alcohol/wine over him.
Posted by: Andrée - France at March 3, 2006 04:04 PM
Nice info...The aerospace firm I used to work for farms engineering out to India. Which in turns farms it to China.
China is a real serious competitor.
- They have a long term view of the world. Thirty years is next quarter to them
-Restrictive trade policies. If you want to sell there, you have to build there.
-Cheap workforce. Prison labor
-Civil, environmental abuses ignored.
They build cheap; sell their goods cheaper then others; overpay for supplies
-They own our debt...can't enforce rules on your banker.
-Other then Lou Dobbs, they are totally ignored.
-Order is mandatory which means very little chance for an internal movement to cause change.
The world certainly wouldn't look the the west anymore... why would they? We can't figure our way out of a paper bag, are governed by total morons who's collective ideology is bringing the world to the brink of total destruction, and there is virtually no opposition to it.
Andree, you have been correct all along. Where is the outrage? Where are the massive demonstrations and protests? Where is the FIGHT that this country supposedly was founded on?
It's sickening, and as the article that Ralph referenced so eloquently put it, the total lack of unity and posturing on the minority side is appalling.
Take the Patriot Act renewal vote from yesterday. That was absolutely disgusting, with Minority "Leader" Reid saying something to the effect of, 'well, it wasn't the best compromise, but we're getting there.'
We're getting there alright... avert your eyes, the explosion will be as bright as the sun, but just for a second.
Apathy Kills.
So Andrea,
how is France dealing with it's own Muslim population which refuses to be a part of French culture?
One school suggests a repeat of the Moors where they were expelled from French shores(W.S. Lind).
Either viva la France or hit the road.
The anti-sect law is a step down that road. The main object of the state is to preserve order. That is how they stay in power.
It is interesting that BushCo protested the law as being ambiguous. I guess they favor a more "rational" approach such as tortue or GITMO.
-Restrictive trade policies. If you want to sell there, you have to build there.
Battlebob,
That's where they caught us short, but in the meantime there is a kind of conscience that is emerging as well among workers. WE all know that the yuan is undervaluated, that people work for low wages....but for how long?
There are more and more fake items caught by the customs. To us it's just 60 millions €. But the problem is elsewhere, with a growing population of educated people, they won't be able to cheat on a large population for a long time. On top, with petrol and gas getting spare within 25 years, they will have their back pushed to the wall, because transportation will cost more than production.
We are in the midst of it. We know, and some of them also know.
By the way Bob, I kow you were in VietNam. My father, an officer from Saint Cyr (your West Point) was kelled there. He was at the head of Caodaists. Hard to explain to foreigners.
Posted by: monkey at March 3, 2006 04:26 PM
I'm going to hold out hope until Nov '06. I know we're fighting like hell here at the district/local level to make changes. I hope that's happening in many other districts/states. We have to keep focussed on gaining 15 seats in the House...
Like it or not, our mid-terms are political process that's in place to bring about change.
Andree,
It would be helpful if we could sort out who you're referring when you use the word, you, in your post above at 3:36 pm. I'm thinking that the 'you' in the 3rd, 4th and 5th paragraphs is to American progressives and democrats at large, not to the DCP or ralpheh in specific but I'm not sure.
As for "wining" about the cost of a protest in Washington, there was no whining that I saw. There was a discussion on where limited resources of time and money are best spent and what should be the top priority. It sounded like a very democratic discussion and just the type of thing that we like to encourage at the DCP. The exploration of new ideas and efforts and encouragement and analysis of what works and what doesn't is part of why the DCP exists.
There have been some terrific ideas floated recently on the blog and in the irc by Veritas, Karen, Casey, Ladytechie, and Suz (and my apologies to anyone else who should be on that list). The IRC discussions have been really interesting and of value to the participants in putting some reality into the ideas and coming up with something that's worth doing.
There is a lot worth doing and discussing. And there's a lot that CAN be accomplished this year.
Posted by: Andrée - France at March 3, 2006 04:37 PM
My sympathies for you over your father's death.
My military service was a long drunk. My time in VN was just a few days as an engineer at DaNang...In and out. I was never a "real" soldier like others in this blog who experienced combat; essentially I was a civilian in uniform.
Our society is not mature enough yet to see the threat as your country sees it. As long as it is cheap, who cares where it comes from and how it was made. We are committing suicide which each Walmart purchase.
First Scooter, then Brownie, now Dusty...
March 3, 2006 — A stunning investigation of bribery and corruption in Congress has spread to the CIA, ABC News has learned.
The CIA Inspector General has opened an investigation into the spy agency's executive director, Kyle "Dusty" Foggo, and his connections to two defense contractors accused of bribing a member of Congress and Pentagon officials.
-snip-
The CIA said Foggo, the number three official at the CIA, would have no further comment. He will remain in his post at the CIA during the investigation, according to officials.
Two former CIA officials tell ABC News that Foggo oversaw contracts involving at least one of the companies accused of paying bribes to Congressman Randall "Duke" Cunningham. The story was first reported by Newsweek magazine.
more... http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=1684086&page=1
Posted by: Andrée - France at March 3, 2006 03:36 PM
Hey Andree, actually, the French fought the Nazis with OUR blood, too. I seem to recall the US helping to end the occupation of France. Maybe the reason you can recognize the problem with the some of the democrats is that the ones like Lieberman harken back to the upstanding folks in Vichy, non?
As far as learning languages goes, I speak five, my father spoke seven, my niece is fluent in Mandarin and Tagalog, so not everyone is The Ignorant American.
Your comment was really insulting to the people who post here and work their asses off everyday to restore our democracy in the face of unbelievable odds. And in case it escaped your attention, in one short year, Bush has gone from being Mr. Popular, Mr. War on Terror, Mr. national Security, to Mr. Poison in the public's eye, and he didn't get there without one whole hell of alot doing everything in our power, from keyboards to foot soldiering to educate and sway public opinion.
And in November, that public opinion will turn into political power.
For better or for worse, our democracy takes at a minimum two years to undo mistakes. One of those reasons is so that the economy does not get destabilized along with the societal and political changes. So we don't have suburbs with car fires and curfews in the day and night.
The best thing about our Constitution is that is forsees the danger of unrest, and provides mechanism for orderly political upheaval. Does it work perfectly, no, but what does? It works pretty damn well, and in point of fact, the US has come closer than this, much closer in our history to self-annihilation and it's the mechanism of the rule of law that kept it at bay.
So when you are criticizing the folks who post here at DCP, you might want to keep some of that in mind.
And you might want to apologize for giving offense to just about everyone here.
Random thoughts, TGIF:
I'm likening the India nuclear deal to the Russians sending missiles to Cuba during the early sixties. A nuclear threat within peripheral vision of the one nation that is YOUR greatest threat (China) is a strategic deterrent.
My Pet Theory #1: Its an attempt to slow the exponential economic growth in China, the holder and chief market for our assets. They and the UAE of Portgate fame are the main US loan holders funding the Iraq War. Since by God, heaven forbid, we let the upper 1% of the country pay their fair share of taxes to finance our misadventures in nation-building.
My Pet Theory #2: The political roiling of the Middle East seems to me to be deliberate on the part of the multinationals to keep the prices on the remaining oil in the region HIGH, making BUSINESSES the only stabilizing factor in the region. Government-controlled petroleum is the last thing these folks want, and why they have a bullseye painted on Venezuelan President Chavez's picture in their offices.
Finally, and sadly, the Arbusto method of bankrolling sad global misadventures will further pull this country into an economic decline that I fear may even jeopardize access to basic necessities like food and utilities. Will anyone grow a spine long enough to end the decline before its too late and the planet too far gone to save?
Just my two cents. Tin foil hat off. Back to work.
Battlebob,
Ever since there were the riots in the suburbs, that I watched on TV just like you, not even being able to spot the places where they took place (I live in Paris) they have been mute!
There are two kinds of immigrants : those who want to integrate, and those who only want to live on welfare while taking a revenge on former coloniel power. So, there is a plit as well inside the immigrants. If you heard my Morrocan baker talking about the rioters, she's much harder than me. To her it's simple : you have to send back to the "bled "(village in Arabic) or to the "case" (hut, for the blacks) all the rioters.
What I don't understand myself, is the role of the parents, who have their children wandreing at nignt. Very often they are analphabeth, work hard....but their kids mighr kill for a pair or Nikes. Where are the values, where are the rules, where is the family? Too easy to complain.
I was raised on a farm in Brittany. My grandparents learned French at school (YES, and I speak Breton as well. They never taught me, but I learned by ear), there was no running water, no water...but we were happy. And those people had strong values, they passed to me..;that's why I'm here. They were really involved in Resistance, they didn't think of money, race, or skin colour, they just did what they had to do.
Except some of the newcomers don't accept to play same rules as we did. It's not a matter of being Muslim. 80% of's the black them are not worshippers, some maka a lot of noise, but we are not dupe. The violence comes from the Africans.
For me, its Ilocano, some Tagalog and Spanish. Want to learn some Portuguese.
If I head out of here, it would be SOUTH. Plus the music there is sublime.
I think what is missing is a constant national presence. Maybe it won't happen because we are Dems and it would be like herding cats.
Kerry tried to keep a running box score of Bush screw-ups throught the campaign. I thought it was effective but I am biased anyway.
http://www.democrats.org/ has a lot of that. Since I miss a lot of events, they should publish or list items to beat Repubs with.
We have to make it easy for the public to vote for us. There are a lot of Repub negatives but we need to give the public reasons to change.
Maybe folks aren't tuned in to the many blogs and non MSM press? I thought we did pretty well saturating MSM with news articles. Some were published. Maybe it is too soon as the election is 8 months off.
I did not take offense to Andree's post in the least, as I assumed the "you" referred to the nation as a whole, and "we" fighting the Nazi's was a collective "we". I didn't see any reference to anyone here in the DCP, it was the article that Ralph referenced that touched a nerve.
I would't dare speak for or defend Andree, I'm certain that's unnecessary. But as I see it, in a nutshell, the world has been standing by, more impatiently by the day, waiting to see when America will stand up and fight for its honor... ridding itself and the world of this current plague (NOT terrorism), and quite frankly, most of us have been waiting for the same thing, as WE all do everything we can to try and rally the terminally disinterested... critical mass from an outrage standpoint.
I LOVE the fight and the clarity of purpose in the folks I've come to know on this blog and the Kerry blog before, and know that we are all clamoring for change... but let's not attack each other friends, please.
I sing pretty poorly, Kumbaya is on deck... it'll crack glass.
Andree:
Sometimes values, rules and family are secondary when the primary need is to survive. Just ask anyone who visits a jail here in America. Most people are there because of 1) poverty; and 2) lack of mobility within what should be an economically mobile society.
Finally, I do not know the particulars of the history of race relations in France, but they are indeed different from those in the US, where Africans were taken by force to this country.
In France, I would imagine, the apparent violence by African immigrants would be because there is a lack of opportunity in the country they left to--the one that colonized them. This exacerbates the fact that they cannot return to their country, which, by colonization, became unwelcome to them.
Please clarify.
Spinnaker,
When you have 55 people of your close family killed in Resistance, for hiding Jews, having them escaping, hiding English and American soldiers, you teach me lessons.
I'm just going to give you an example. My father being at the head of a "réseau" (net), sent a message to my grandparents place, on my mother side, asking to hide 25 American paratroopers, hide them further, and tell them they would depert at 3 a.m). They did at night.
On the next morning, the Americans had time to leave as scheduled, but the Nazis raided the farm looking for them. They knew they were involved in Resistance, so in retaliation they hung all the men, burned alive the women after ripping in two a pregnant one. 9 dead.
And sorry to remind you but Brittany got herself free before the allies arrived. We are Celts, as bold and crazy as our Irish cousins, and we never saw the American troops.
Posted by: monkey at March 3, 2006 05:10 PM
New fundraising idea: bring your old glassware to the monkey singalong of Kumbayah.
Monkey:
Its important for us to get through the painful stuff as well as do the group hug, and personally, I think we all grow when we do go through uncomfortable moments.
(However, that comment does NOT extend to listening to a shatter-glass version of the aleged "Kumbaya". {{kiss}})
Fe...
I've also seen uncomfortable moments turn from potential learning experiences to total crap before on the blog...
Peeps in glass houses shouldn't make me sing. {{a big wet sloppy one right back atcha!}}
Me me me meeeeeeeeee. Cough.
The intent of words is very hard to understand in print -- without the benefit of seeing someone's face or hearing the tone in the voice or speaking in a language that is not our native one. Add to that our own personal frustrations or moods of the day. I'm sure no one here means to offend anyone else, but that does not mean we should be complacent about how we phrase & frame our words.
We all come here from different places, minds, & histories. Some lives are much more tragic than others. But I hope this is not a contest to prove whose life has the most tragedy or joy.
I would like to believe that the world understands the struggle we Americans are having right now with this regime in place. I would like to believe that this regime will end someday and we'll recover. I would like to believe that we are all world citizens who want the best for our planet.
We're in this together.
Fe,
The problem wirh Africans is that they live in a tribal way, packing up at 20 in a 2 room flat, with the kids down in the steets. That means they are unable to do their school homework, that they loose ground as no one speaks properly, nor reads French at home...and that they they end end up in a violence ball. Most of the riotous kids were black. And Le Monde, which is a left leaning paper, stressed that they were the most violent one.
Ther is a community we never of, it's the Eastern one. All the former boat people from VietNam, Cambodgia, Laos perfectly lended into sociery, as did the Indians, the Pakistanis. Why are they able to do it, and the newcomers not?
Andre,
We have been going thru the same with Latinos. It normally takes a minimum of three generations to change culture if one comes from areas without established rules of law. Latinos historically are a very tight family unit. Several generations may live together and move through live together. This makes it easier to educate the kids and move the family fully into society. But in Arizona, I saw the strength of these families breaking up. The strong family ties were weakening as seen by the out-of-wedlock babies by very young Latino women. This was not the norm a few years ago. Mexico is in a state of tremendous flux with its own southern borders under assault by Central American refugees. They are pushing everyone north and they are leaving the strength of their culture behind.
Our immigration problems is not just those looking for a better live but is fleeing the lawlessness and are not prepared to be a part of any society.
It is easier if one comes from an area of laws. Everyone brings their society and values with them. When Europeans come here, they bring their enhanced rule sets and pretty much fit right in. Countries where there are very few rules of law bring a value system based on basic survival skills; gangs, killing, stealing.
Islam is a religion based on law and also based on converting others by force (if necessary). I know a lot of Islam leaders who try to bury the force side and enhance the rule side.
What France has experienced and is experiencing is what all countries that welcome all experience. The conversion is rocky and not all cultures will add to the greater good..?
And I'll sing along with Kumbaya but I'm not holding hands or kissing anyone... eeewwwww, cooties... ;)
Andree:
I am puzzled and disheartened by the way the African diaspora is perceived by the rest of the world, especially at this point.
The communities you discuss, Cambodia, Laotian, Indian and Pakistani all have similar strong backbone communities that are self-sustaining and contained. The emphasis is on communities. Meaning families, access to their language and cultural mainstays such as foods.
Also, I would have to ask what are the immigration policies in France for Cambodians, Laotians, Indians and Pakistanis? Do they allow for immigration of family members? Do they only allow guest workers, the euphemism for "cheap labor"?
In America, the rules for immigrants VARY, and I have the same feeling they vary as well in Europe, depending on the nation's capacity to handle the influx. For example, politics snf economics made it much easier to provide H-1 worker visas to high-tech professionals from the Eastern bloc and India in the 90s. Don't know about that now.
I guess what I'm getting to is that I am uncomfortable about making generalizations about an entire ethnic group without having a complete picture of how they got there and WHY, what are the rules governing them, what are the equities and inequities that govern their ability to stay in their new country. All play a factor in how they "behave" in a foreign society.
Aww madame..how about a little peck on the cheek...
Instead of Kumbaya...
How about we sit around a camp fire eating beans (Blazing Saddles)
An argument can be made that we can no longer afford an open door policy with Mexico.
There is no set of rules and no criteria for entrance...simply make your way across the border and be cannon fodder for any group that wants to exploit you.
A counter argument is these folks return home and improve the society they left. No one knows if this is happening as no one knows how many return.
.
Posted by: battlebob at March 3, 2006 05:40 PM
LOL!!! "Excuse me while I whip this out."
On another topic, on Hardball tonight...
"Bush sneaks into Pakistan "like a thief in the night"."
Those are the words of Hasan Zaidi, NBC News, Pakistan, as spoken on Hardball minutes ago. Bush slunk in in the middle of the night without landing, wing, or interior lights. Chris Matthews (aka Tweety) just said he came in "like a drug dealer". There you have it, folks. The leader of the free world.
bob:
Your post makes my point. How welcome is it in the immigrant's former country? How easy is it for them to be economically mobile?
Any negatives in those factors will mean a large emigrating group of foreign nationals across the border.
Our family comes from a country where the decline began 100 years ago and really has never ceased.
Battlebob,
You're right, we've seen family unit exploding as well, but here, when you are a single mother with a bunch of kids you can live very well out of welfare, that represents 100 times what you might be living on in African countries. Why working? Where is the authority? Where are the models? Where are the goals?
And that's the only example the kids are shown, while they watch consumption society on TV. And they blow the fuses.
What I dread personaly, as a native, is that we won't only have to face Le Pen (extreme right), but de Villiers (a nationalistic) at the 2007 elections. There is a remendous divide in society, with many not speaking their minds, and a will for a strong power. i don't know what is going to come out of it.
The general rule of thumb of immigrants is that the ones who move to the new country do not learn the language of the new country. Their children will grow up to speak both languages, and the grandchildren will have few, if any cultural remnants left.
Andree, I think you will find that the cultural stereo typing of Asian and Indian immigrants is far more favorable than of any African immigrants.
And I am loathe to tell you this, but your views are really racist.
Really racist. And I think you mean no harm, and are curious, but that doesn't alter the fact that your views are incredibly culturally insensitive and racist.
Sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but if you made the same statements here in the United States you would soon find out how racist your views are.
Good news though. There is a fascinating new television reality/really more documentary called Black/White, where they take a black family and make them "look" and "sound" white, and they take a white family and make them "look" and "sound" black. The transformations are amazing and you would not be able to tell the difference.
You can read more about their experiences in this week's issue of People magazine (hardly a bastion of higher culture), but Oprah had also done a show with both families on and the filmmker as well. I think you will begin to see the inherent racism that exists despite cultural immersion, thoughout the world.
Also, in order to get past being a racist, you have got to understand your racism and why you hold the particular stereotypes that you do. I think every white person has some degree of racism in them. Maybe we will do better with the next generation, but it doesn't look that way.
If there is no economic justice, no true equality of opportunity, no real understanding of what French colonialism has wrought, or American slave-taking, et cetera, this will continue.
We have got to get past the point of being racist, to admitting to racism, and fearlessly examining its inter and intrapersonal roots in ourselves.
Fe,
Yes, the Eastern communities mean workers and families.
My bistrot owner and cigarettes seller is Chinese, the restaurant in front of my place is Pakistanese, upper there is the Thai one, down the Chinese one. Their kids go to shcool in the area, we talk upon the street. They are just part of the community, as the Morrocan restaurant's owner's, who lives in my building, and the Moroccan gay designer up the street as well. They are just neighbours.
It's when it comes to suburbs that the problem raises, because they are huge communities, with their own laws. Even the police cannot enter some places, because they represent the LAW they don't want to obey....at the great dismay of those who are perfectly integrated.
spinnaker, I agree.
In fact, I think its healthier in the long run to admit to your own racism openly and honestly. In that way, you begin the path towards a more enlightened view.
Another anecdote. My friend Rhodessa has a small and growing collection of new "ethnic notions" that she picks up in her international travels. She once brought back a packet of small plastic doll toys called "Hoodies", which replicated all the various stereotypes one finds in media representations of black inner-city society: the pimps, the whores, the dealers and the junkies. These dolls, sold to children as toys, were made in South Korea.
This is why I think we need to take a deeper look at how the western world continues to deal the hand they deal to other countries and become incredulous when faced with the ramifications. That is another example of tragic short-sightedness.
Posted by: monkey at March 3, 2006 05:26 PM
Okay the threat of Kumbaya and big sloppy wet kisses AND a group hug?
Man, you are one scary 70's-wielding monKey!
Andre,
In 1992, Pat Buchanan who was as nutty as they come proposed building a fence between the US and Mexico. Most portrayed him as a paranoid moron.
That same idea is back again and is gaining support. Local law officers recommend a partial fence where resources are slim and use US military monitoring equipment.
The feeling is we can no longer be a dumping ground for the world.
So maybe the smart move is to get folks to remain in their own countries. This takes vision and resources and a long-term commitment to people who have nothing in common with you; except they are us.
It is also the cheapest financially and emotionally.
So we need to stop those from practicing genocide on others. I mean really stop them. Kill them if necessary.
Do what Bono and Clinton say and flood Africa and other poor countries with aids drugs.
To prevent disorder, order must be developed. This is the part that takes a long time. Their direction may be different but as long as no one gets slaughtered, it is their direction.
I don't mean to post and run, but i do need to leave the blog and go do errands. I didn't want to throw the topic out there for discussion and then seem to disappear.
I will come back on later and answer any comments or questions addressed to me.
to add to my post in clarification:
The world is working on a cartoon caricature of an ethnic and cultural group, and that caricature betrays you even BEFORE you have a chance to prove yourself and become assimilated, let alone accepted in a new society.
And when you have global parodies of yourself sold as a toy, how far has the world gone to continue making sure you're never even granted a pass to express your true worth, humanity or dignity? You're just a cartoon.
Spinnaker,
That's what you write : "And I am loathe to tell you this, but your views are really racist."
Here is the excerpt from Le Monde.
LE MONDE - 24/02- 13H55
Si les bandes sont rarement homogènes d'un point de vue ethnique, les jeunes d'origine africaine ancrés dans la délinquance présenteraient tout de même des particularités, à en croire une note du 3 octobre des renseignements généraux de la préfecture de police (RGPP). L'une d'elles serait "l'extrême violence de leurs actes".
Selon le rapport, "ces jeunes réagissent en effet, de façon démesurée, surtout lorsqu'ils sont en groupe, le dérapage pouvant intervenir à tout moment. Le fait de tuer est complètement banalisé par la télévision, qui filme la mort en direct (...). Donner la mort s'inscrit dans une sorte de parcours initiatique qui permet d'être reconnu et de s'élever dans la bande, d'autant que l'excuse de la provocation, sous une forme quelconque, vaut toujours absolution."
Are you able to read ir?
You can extract "extrême violence de leurs actes" = "extreme violence of their acts" in the first paragraph about "jeunes d'origine Africaine" = "youngsters of African origin".
So....Le Monde is racist, for reporting facts.
And don't miss the second paragraph.
"So maybe the smart move is to get folks to remain in their own countries. This takes vision and resources and a long-term commitment to people who have nothing in common with you; except they are us."
The real issue around the tension with immigration internationally is the reluctance to deal with the economic commitment this implies. This means if you seriously want to slow the flow across the borders, you need to make it appealing to stay home.
In that event, the way Bush is going now, the world could be faced with a diaspora of Americans trying to find opportunity elsewhere, since our resources, ingenuity and manufacturing sectors have been outsourced.
Fe,
I understand the anger of being a cartoon character.
But did their religious and social leaders try to stop it or did they try and take advantage of people's pain for their own gain.
Kinda what Bush does isn't it?
Bob:
I don't think anyone knew they were about to be used as models for a racially stereotyping toy.
Andree:
You need to translate Le Monde for those of us who aren't fluent in French. (I think Casey is away right now doing errands and she will return)
Oh mighty my, I would have never thought I would read such a post as ralpheh...;and I've been wondering for some 10 mns if I should answer or not.
I've been watching you, and reading you for some 3 years now.
I share the same values as you do, but as a foreigner you really did seem weird to me, from time to time in your fight : where is your plan?
Don't tell me but, but, but (I read).
Where is your party line?
Can you put it in 10 proposals?
How are you going to develop them?
With whom?
The system is rotten, but you have to pull it down.
As Indy said, Vive la Révolution!
Posted by: Andrée - France at March 3, 2006 03:36 PM
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
THIS IS THE HUGE, AND I WOULD SAY NEAR FATAL, FLAW WITH THE DEMOCRATS - THEY HAVE NO PLAN FOR IRAQ AND THE MIDDLE EAST.
I just called Sen. Durbin's office about Iraq and the war/occupation. I asked what is the Democratic position on the occupation of Iraq. They gave me the LAME DODGE: "Democrats are not monolithic." TRanslated that means - Democrats are 1) divided on the issue (confusing voters) and/or worse 2) don't have a plan or are afraid to offer a plan.
THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS. THE PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL RATING IS IN THE 30'S% RANGE, IRAQ IS ON THE VERGE OF CIVIL WAR AND DEMS CAN'T COME UP WITH RESPONSE TO THE REPUBLICANS??????
The Republican position is quite clear STAY IN IRAQ FOR A LONG LONG TIME...
The 2006 election SHOULD BE a referendum on the war in Iraq and Bush's handling of the war. The Democrats are afraid of this - they want to talk vaguely about "jobs" (who is against jobs????!!!!!)
Kerry, Durbin and H. Clinton, as far as I can tell HAVE REALLY NO DISTINCTIVE POSITION ON THE WAR... an amazing and appalling lack of leadership.
Fe,
I think the public is numb to suffering.
Remember the stacks of Serbian bodies as a result of ethnic cleansing? Clinton was reluctant to get involved until Sen Dole gave him Republican cover by urging him to do it. He saved a lot of lives and angered the Russians who supported Serbia. Screw ‘em.
Wallace says 20k kids per day die of hunger. Grand Rapids has 200k people so in 10 days the entire population dies slowly and horribly.
We see pictures of the Sudan genocide and do nothing.
We watch kids die slowly every day and do nothing.
Can any politician rally the populace to really care about the world around them?
Little steps are done such as Oxfam, Red Cross, etc. but they work in the small; not the big.
Bono wants a Marshall plan for Africa. Fair enough, but rule sets must be in place. That means those who practice disorder have got to go.
African debt must be forgiven. We do the same thing for companies here, so why not countries. Small progress is being made.
BTW Andree:
There was a thead about the protest in Washington, some days ago, with wining about the cost.
Cost? We fought the nazis with our blood.
Hell, it's easier to complain each day in front of a screen, than to decide to invest for freedom. You've
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
I was not whining - I was asking what is the best use of $200 to $400 dollars in furthering our political goals? Is Traveling to D.C., staying in a motel, marching in the street for a few hours, eating in restaurants and then coming home, very effective?
Does the above accomplish very much??? - heck, you could set up a run a website for entire year for $250. One my calling plan, you can buy 4000 long distance minutes with $200.
bob:
We need to view the strategies being used on this world vis-a-vis a satellite. I think we would then stop being so complacent because the effect of someone on one side of the world has impact on another.
If the world is too big to grasp and therefore we shut down because we feel powerless, then maybe we should face up to what we need to learn instead of being caught in the circles or bubbles we find ourselves in.
The fact of the matter is, our capacity to be short-sighted has an expiration date. With that expiration comes either with the last drop of water or the dropping of a nuke.
The endgame could be either ecological or military. But since we've rapidly developed ourselves and have blurred the borders, so too, have we created the ability to destroy ourselves utterly.
That's why the term "wake up" can't be used too strongly.
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 06:23 PM
What's the position of your local district reps? (That's assuming your district is open for change in 2006.) I know the candidates in my district are making their positions on the war quite clear.
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 06:23 PM
I agree with you. Bush’s approval rating is in the toilet and we Dems are silent.
Our problem is we have no rigid platform. But you would think someone would layout a path to wrap this thing up.
However, when all sides are shooting at each other and you, talking is hard to do.
To get out, we have to talk to those who are killing each other.
Tell them we will give them the means to rebuild and will leave as soon as possible.
How about some goals:
When the same percentage of the population has power and water as before then we will leave.
When the hospitals are functioning again we will leave.
We will stop constructing military bases.
We will close the torture bases and prisons. Blow them up.
Enlist the help of the public in the negotiation.
Iraqis needs to develop their own security forces which should be easy as they had a huge Army before. Make’em cops.
Stop breaking into homes and terrorizing folks. It just creates more folks who want to kill us. Lind says to move into the area. Rent space from local Iraqis. Send over soldiers trained as cops as tension must be lowered.
Posted by: Fe at March 3, 2006 06:34 PM
I tend to agree with you but the problem is being worked incrementally. This is normally pretty good engineering but while small changes are made, millions more die.
Since incremental change is not working, we need to move large (my favorite as I am not a minimalist).
The idea is to approach Africa as a ground for third generation warfare – maneuver warfare.
Divide the country into conflict areas. Decide how to remove those who are the problem and replace them with non-US government African authorities. It will take planning to find the right rules and rule makers. Maneuver quickly and decisively to replace chaos with food, water and order. It is hard to do and may not go smoothly but it will work. The US is the catalyst and implementer but is not the control agent. That belongs to the Africans. We get no immediate financial gain so no Haliburton need apply.
And, good Peeps.... A little tiny ray of good news (click on link for longer story, but the fact that this moron was taken into immediate custody was 'heartening' - and the judge's words were apt...). Now, if we could get all of the criminals running our government in jail ASAP, I might see something hopeful about our future.:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060303/ap_on_go_co/congressman_bribery
Former Congressman Gets Eight-Plus Years
SAN DIEGO - Former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, who collected $2.4 million in homes, yachts, antique furnishings and other bribes on a scale unparalleled in the history of Congress, was sentenced Friday to eight years and four months in prison, the longest term meted out to a congressman in decades.
Cunningham, who resigned from Congress in disgrace last year, was spared the 10-year maximum by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns but was immediately taken into custody. He also was ordered to pay $1.8 million in restitution for back taxes.
bob:
In Africa the regions will be as difficult to maneuver as Serbia. We will be in the crosshairs of a civil war everywhere we go, but somehow, there has to be some method to plant inside and do good work.
One idea, like yours is to have an NGO (non-governmental agency), with enough clout to negate the civil strife. The goods and services (like food, AIDS treatment and birth control) they provide supercede bullying and theft by warlords and corrupt regimes using these goods as collateral or taking it for themselves.
The main thing is how does one re-establish stability in a region long overrun by colonialization, corruption, and the ensuing poverty and social decline caused by both?
I'm with you about the big gains, but I'm afraid the obstacles will need to be negotiated by means which we do not have the resources for: a military. Perhaps peacekeepers. Then focus on land reclamation, re-invigorate agrarian societies, restore tribal integrity. Everything that those who have "resources" interest in the region are loathe to comply with.
I am not trying to be a nay sayer here, but WHERE IS OUR ORGANIZATION? Who is our spokesman?
We HAVE GOT TO GET ORGANIZED, LIKE A BUSINESS, OR A CHURCH, TO WIN. Grassroots is great for on the ground education and motivation, but we also need organization from the TOP down.
If we don't get it, TOMORROW, kiss '06 goodbye.
Get mad at me if you want, but that's honestly how I see it.
What can we do? Karen, ya wanta run? I would if I thought I could win! For Pete's sake!!!!
Then focus on land reclamation, re-invigorate agrarian societies, restore tribal integrity. Everything that those who have "resources" interest in the region are loathe to comply with.
Posted by: Fe at March 3, 2006 07:24 PM
let me add-we're not very good at doing that.
Fe,
One big problem is the climate and terrain. Sub-Sahara Africa cannot sustain itself as there is no way to raise protein food-stuffs. Low-water and salt tolerant crops could be introduced, but a lot of folks will be forced to move; if they aren’t dead already. The main concern is the government supported killing (and rape) squads. Extermination may be the answer. It won’t be pretty.
My knowledge of the area tells me it is possible because most of the strife areas are isolated from each other. Divide and conquer using as little violence as possible. This must be an African thing with US logistical support. The African Union is trying to use economic and political weapons to improve the area and they have done a great job so far. Graft and corruption are slowly disappearing. But 20k kids a day are still dieing. I think the AU has just about run its course. Those who are doing the most damage are resistant to pressures because they own everything available. There is no economic and political pressure possible. The next step is to up the force. Wallace thinks it can be done non-violently as apartheid was ended as everyone saw the economic and political need for justice. I hope he is correct. I fear he may be wrong.
We don’t want to replace one set of butchers with another which has been the US ay for quite some time. But we must remove those who are using their power to murder people and replace them with someone who can lead without murdering the population.
s/b US way for quite some time.
Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at March 3, 2006 07:35 PM
Dean has been enormously ineffective at leading the party... Reid has been enormously ineffective... on and on and on.
There's a hole in the Repug machine big enough to drive a Hummer thru, and the dems are dancing around issues like they are "nucular".
Right after Selection 2000, I thought Gore should have acted as a shadow president, on TV every damned day responding with how he would handle every issue... I thought the same of Kerry after 2004. Neither has been consistently visible since (emphasis on consistently!), except for the occassional fire & brimstone speech.
Every day, there needs to be a unified drip drip drip against the machine... and ZERO compromises to anything even remotely questionable from the Cabal... which is pretty much everything.
Bring it all to a total standstill, all of it.
The American public knows one thing... they LIKE strength, and they like unity, and are not real big on wishy-washy wordy crap.
FIGHT ALREADY, DEMS!
Apathy kills.
Posted by: Andrée - France at March 3, 2006 05:15 PM
Our ancient Celtic ancestors gave Caesar and Rome's later armies hell, too (the Celts were great at guerilla warfare), and after his capture, Vercingetorix wasn't killed until after Caesar returned to Rome for his triumphal march. The Romans vastly underestimated women warriors! Queen Boudicca's armies razed three cities, utterly and totally, and killed everyone in them (archaeologists are still finding layers of ash in those cities), and they started on the fourth one before Suetonius Paulinus arrived to stop them and slaughter most of them (Suetonius and his armies had been destroying the school of the druids and the surplus grain stores on Mona, and his troops had to be "encouraged" to fight the women warriors on Mona, as well). When pushed into a corner, the Celts fought back, and proved to be just as murderous as their oppressors.
True, the fact that the Celtic tribes could never unite against Caesar is what made them a conquered people (or at least partially conquered - Rome left some of them alone). Once a battle was done, it was done, and the Celts wanted to party, listen to the bards recite poetry... and dance and sing.... Rome only wanted to fight and dominate....
Gotta love those Celts! :-)
I felt the same way about Sadaam. If Bush had tried to convince the world that Sadaam was a worse menace to the world then the other 25 or so leaders that butcher their own, I would have supported him. But he didn’t and the other world butchers are still going strong. Bush may want to invade Iran but he doesn’t have the military to pull it off. I think he is hoping the Iranians attack the troops so he can use it as an excuse to stay.
But there is no one willing to help. Bush’s only option is to play the fear card so expect an invasion of Iran soon.
Posted by: monkey at March 3, 2006 07:47 PM
Not quite sure if I agree with you about Dean. His goal is to rebuild the grass roots and get candidates to run for office. I think he has been successful as candidates are popping up all over. Is Dean to thank for that? maybe...
He was told by Reid to stay out of washington politics. That is Reid's and Pelosei's domain. They have been absolutely useless.
Add the defection of senior leaders like Biden on gonsalez (reservations anyone) and Obama on Rice. Repubs would never do that. They may now.
We don’t want to replace one set of butchers with another which has been the US ay for quite some time. But we must remove those who are using their power to murder people and replace them with someone who can lead without murdering the population.
Posted by: battlebob at March 3, 2006 07:41 PM
There has to be political will to accomplish that, and until there is agreement on how the resources of the continent are to be used-who will benefit from the proceeds of their sales or their local use, there will not be that agreement.
Historically, we have applied sledgehammer techniques to a problem that is more complex. But how do you keep good local governance protected while deep changes occur within? What about the crime lords who participate in the drug, arms and human trafficking? How can they be marginalized and ultimately removed?
In SA, Mandela's truth and reconciliation movement brought about profound change, though the biggest results, where there is complete economic and social equity, is still years away. The chances are good that it can succeed--but it will take not only the politics and the money, but wearing down ages of inculcated, outdated thinking about inferiority and superiority which by and large needs to be abolished not only by law, but by spirit and human practice. It is the only way true equality on a social political level can be reached.
Katherine Harris Caught Up in Bribery Scandal
Campaign Donations From Defense Contractor Under Scrutiny
By MITCH STACY, AP
TAMPA, Fla. (March 3) - U.S. Rep. Katherine Harris said Thursday she did not knowingly do anything wrong in her associations with a defense contractor who prosecutors say illegally funneled thousands of dollars to her campaign in 2004.
Questions about the donations have arisen as Harris, the former Florida secretary of state who oversaw the 2000 presidential election recount, tries to unseat U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, D-Fla.
The donations were described in a plea agreement last Friday, when Mitchell Wade, the former president of MZM Inc., pleaded guilty to bribing U.S. Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham in exchange for assistance in getting $150 million in Defense Department contracts for his company.
more... http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060303035709990014
p.s. nice face
IT IS TOO LATE FOR THIS:
However, when all sides are shooting at each other and you, talking is hard to do.
To get out, we have to talk to those who are killing each other.
Tell them we will give them the means to rebuild and will leave as soon as possible.
How about some goals:
When the same percentage of the population has power and water as before then we will leave.
When the hospitals are functioning again we will leave.
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Just as many experts had predicted, Iraq is dividing along ethnic and religious lines and descending into Civil war.
THERE IS NO GOOD, EASY, SOLUTION FOR IRAQ - BU$HCO HAVE SCREWED IT UP SO BAD, IT CAN'T BE RIGHTED. THE WAR WAS A HUGE GAMBLE AND WE HAVE LOST...
I go with the Murtha plan - withdraw troops from Iraq but keep some in the area in case something hellish breaks out.
Fe,
Good questions...what do you do when the killing stops and a power vacuum exists?
We could remove any warlord and then watch as another takes over. The same thing is happening in Iraq. When Sadaam was kicked out, the struggle over various power bases started. It will happen anywhere power is removed and no rule of law exists. It happened in Iraq and Iraq is a lot more advanced then Africa. Don’t remove a leader until there is leadership ready to step in. I think it is possible to grow leaders in exile. It has been done before. There will be bloodshed but I am using 20k kids a day as the benchmark. It will take a lot of planning to find the people and methods but it would work.
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Every day, there needs to be a unified drip drip drip against the machine... and ZERO compromises to anything even remotely questionable from the Cabal... which is pretty much everything.
Bring it all to a total standstill, all of it.
The American public knows one thing... they LIKE strength, and they like unity, and are not real big on wishy-washy wordy crap.
FIGHT ALREADY, DEMS!
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I'm afraid that the Senate Dems are cowards - Kerry, Durbin, Obama, Clinton all have been doing their utmost to avoid taking a stand on Iraq
disgusting....
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 08:22 PM
“withdraw troops from Iraq but keep some in the area in case something hellish breaks out.”
problem...those troops will be the real targets.
A few troops is not a number; it is a slogan and not very useful. A few troops could end up being any number BushCo wants.
I think you need goals and then you go. The Iraqis want us out. We want out...We want to give them the keys and go. What do the Iraqis want? Are they in it for revenge? Power?
Power hates a vacuum and someone or groups always step up. The problem: there may be no one to talk to. Who are the leaders? Usually attempts to get a cease fire don’t work well. Why? The shooters are winning.
When a despot rules by terror and the despot is removed what happens to the terror? Someone else takes over unless some kind of government was created prior to the change.
So in the end, a hollow sounding “leave a few troops” may be the best we get.
Who wants to be the last to die for a mistake? (J. Kerry, 1971)
I'm afraid that the Senate Dems are cowards - Kerry, Durbin, Obama, Clinton all have been doing their utmost to avoid taking a stand on Iraq
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 08:27 PM
I think they need to come out and Bash Commander Bunnypants - brand while the iron is hot
Maybe part of the UAE deal is we can leave a few thousand troops there?
Maybe we will leave them in Iran? Or Afganistan or some other 'stan with oil, natural gas and nukes..
Think any Middle East country wants them?
How about Israel? - a country hated by all in the area. A few more thousand won't change anything.
There is always Italy or Germany. getting pretty far away though...
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Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 06:23 PM
What's the position of your local district reps? (That's assuming your district is open for change in 2006.) I know the candidates in my district are making their positions on the war quite clear.
Posted by: madame defarge at March 3, 2006 06:34 PM
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The Democrats (party insiders) in my district, the Dems in the state capitol, Lansing, and the Dems in Washington HAVE GIVEN UP ON MY CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT. THEY DON'T CARE/THINK IT IS UNWINNABLE/WON'T SPEND A DIME ON THE CAMPAIGN.
All this means an easy win for the Republican incumbent in November.
sad and disgusting....
Maybe Bush went to Pakistan to thank bin Laden for getting him elected...
Bush needs bin Laden to do something and wake up the Fear God.
Five years and he is still tip-toeing-thru-the-tulips.
Okay... just one comment and this is from someone who actually grew up in Africa, in western Africa, in Liberia, just outside of Monrovia, near the village of Dwahzon. Western Africa is roughly comparable to the mainland US in square miles and in population. That is only one part of the continent of Africa.
We do not ever speak of the continent of North America or the continent of Europe and their respective inhabitants as monolithic groups. And it is offensive when Americans and Europeans do the same to Africa and Africans out of pure intellectual laziness and ignorance.
One can not even categorize people from different parts of Morocco as being part of one monolithic group, much less Moroccans versus Egyptians. And there is no comparison at all between the various tribes in Kenya to the Moroccans to the tribes in Liberia or Angola or South Africa. They are all unique groups with varying social customs. To just call them all Africans and assume that they all can be quantified by some generalization is insulting.
To the extent that Le Monde did that, then yes, it is racist as well.
Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 08:56 PM
I am in Grand Rapids (Alto) and the Kent County Democrats have disappeared.
The local paper is pretty Conservative but there is nothing anywhere about Dem issues.
They had a movie about something or someone but nothing on the issues.
Their web site is down...
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Posted by: ralpheh at March 3, 2006 08:22 PM
“withdraw troops from Iraq but keep some in the area in case something hellish breaks out.”
problem...those troops will be the real targets.
A few troops is not a number; it is a slogan and not very useful. A few troops could end up being any number BushCo wants.
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ALL U.S. TROOPS OUT OF IRAQ - keep some on ships off shore or in Kuwait etc...
Please check this map out... it puts the other continents and countries of the world into proper perspective with the continent of Africa.
http://www.bu.edu/africa/outreach/materials/posters/map_sample.html
I am in Grand Rapids (Alto) and the Kent County Democrats have disappeared.
The local paper is pretty Conservative but there is nothing anywhere about Dem issues.
They had a movie about something or someone but nothing on the issues.
Their web site is down...
Posted by: battlebob at March 3, 2006 09:00 PM
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Kent County, Michigan Democrat Party
Chair:
KENT SUE LEVY (616) 887-5948 SUELEVY@KENTDEMS.COM
(you might have to donate some money to the local party to get the website back up.)