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How Much is Too Much?
How much is enough? As humanity has been warned again and again over the ages, by sages on every continent, the inability to limit our appetites and desires is a recurring theme in the decline and fall of civilizations. Not the only cause, but a good indicator that a civilization is going down.
No one agrees on how much is too much; embedded in the myth of the freedom of the individual in America (the American Dream) is a belief that nothing is too much, that as long as a person is making money by legally accepted methods, there should be no ceiling on the amount of compensation he or she can receive.
So what do I think is too much? I'm reminded of a famous remark by Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart while he was wrestling with another of humankind's most long-standing problems (sex). Ruling in a 1964 pornography case, Justice Stewart said: "I shall not today attempt to further define pornography...but I know it when I see it."
How about here in the good old U.S.of A? Two stories today reminded me of how greed is gnawing away at the foundations of our country, as inequalities in wealth become greater by the day.
The first story is a perfect illustration of Justice Potter's point: today's corporate executives are essentially looting their companies and their shareholders by manipulating their boards to pay them sums of money which are unconscionable.
As today's poster boy, let's look at the New York Times feature on Lee R. Raymond, the outgoing chairman and chief executive for Exxon, where's worked for the last 43 years.
Counting his pension, Raymond has earned an AVERAGE of $144,573 a day over those 43 years.
That's right: an average of $144,573 a day.
Raymond's last years at Exxon helped to pull up his average day's pay. According to the New York Times, Raymond received more than $686 million between 1993 and 2005.
The year 2005 was an especially good year for Raymond: $19.9 million in salary, bonus, and other incentives; $21.2 million from exercising some options; and 550,000 restricted shares: Raymond owns a total of 3.26 million shares, worth $199 million, at $61 a share (as of March 1).
But that's not all: on retiring, Raymond took his pension as a lump sum, a cool $98 million. Raymond's pay in 2005 just happened to boost the final value of his pension by 20%, because the value of the pension is tied to his final year of income.
But that's not all: even though he's retiring, Raymond “agreed” to stay on as a consultant to the company through 2006. His fee: $1 million.
No human being deserves this kind of compensation. Raymond's compensation is so far out of line with anything that could be considered just that it shocks the conscience. Now I know there are plenty of people out there who think that it's their God-given right to try to make this much money, and to take it if they can get it.
To me, people taking such sums are little more than extremely lucky gamblers. Especially in an industry like the oil industry, where outside forces like the war in Iraq result in windfall profits, like Exxon's world-record setting $36 billion in profits in 2005. Did Raymond have anything to do with the company earning so much money? Of course he did. But did most of that money fall into his hands because of his managerial genius? No, it didn't. He just happened to be a lucky guy who was at the right place at the right time.
But even in the case of the garage hacker made good, is there not some point at which you would agree that the person in question had enough money to live on very comfortably for the rest of their lives? For example, take Steve Jobs. He holds the world record for total compensation in one year, who got $775 million from Apple in 2000, mostly from stock options. One year. $775 million.
If you had to pick an annual income ceiling, beyond which the tax rate would be, say, 99%, what would you pick?
There's lots of good stuff out there about why growing inequalities in wealth and income are bad for our country's future. At least the estate tax was a recognition that there was a threat to allowing families to accumulate larger and larger fortunes. My favorite resource on this topic is Too Much, Sam Pizzagati's wonderful little newsletter that bills itself as “A Commentary on Excess and Inequality.”
Pizzagati's most recent issue of Too Much has an analysis of the latest figures on CEO salaries. Here's a summary:
The typical American full-time worker ended 2005 making $659 a week, or $34,268 a year. The ten CEOs at the top of the new USA Today executive pay list averaged $34,268 every four minutes.
But what about people who are doing well financially, well enough to buy second homes and pied-a-terres? Do they have enough, or more than enough? Here are some statistics from today's Washington Post about second-home purchases in 2005:
About 3.34 million non-primary residences were sold nationwide last year, accounting for 40 percent of all homes sold, according to a report released last week by the National Association of Realtors. That's up from 36 percent in 2004 and 33 percent in 2003.
Vacation homes, for use primarily by their owners, made up a third of those second-home purchases. Generally, pied-à-terres would be lumped into this category. The rest were investment properties acquired mostly to generate rental income or diversify portfolios.
The market for the latter, most economists agree, will cool drastically in 2006 as interest rates tick up and the double-digit gains in home values seen in the past five years come to an end. On the other hand, David Lereah, chief economist for the trade group, and others say sales of vacation homes will remain strong, and possibly cushion market downturns. Vacation home sales were up 17 percent in 2005 from the previous year, to a record 1.02 million properties, the report said. The median price -- half cost more and the rest less -- for vacation homes was $204,100. For investment properties, it was $183,500.
What about the other end of the housing market, as in the no-housing market, the sleep-in-your-car market, the rent-in-rat-infested apartment market, people who will never earn enough money to buy a house market, the-I-Can't-Show-You-This-House-Market (because you're black) market? Millions of Americans cannot afford to buy a home, are paying 50% or more of their incomes for housing in substandard buildings, or go through periodic or long-term periods of homelessness.
We, the American people who vote, permit the housing market to operate in such a way that before everyone has decent housing, well-to-do Americans were buying and selling 3.34 million non-primary residences.
It is morally wrong that we have so much wealth that millions of people are buying a SECOND home, while millions of their fellow Americans are suffering in over-priced, crumbling buildings.
I don't know what it would cost to provide every American with decent housing (anyone out there have any numbers on this?). But I would rather sacrifice whatever extra dose of well-being and happiness that comes from owning a second home for a tax rate and housing policies that ensured that every American has decent housing.
To paraphrase one of America's great activists, Upton Sinclar, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his niece's salary depends upon his not understanding it."
We are traveling along a spiral staircase to hell.
Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at April 15, 2006 01:48 PM
Or, we could rebuild and reshape and restrengthen the unions.
"Union", like "liberal", like "democratic" for that matter, used to be a good word. Anyone up for retaking the word?
We are traveling along a spiral staircase to hell.
Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at April 15, 2006 01:48 PM
Veritas, Matt,
Exactly. And where does that leave our children? Kids are graduating college and finding there aren't as many jobs waiting for them as they were told there would be before they got their education.
Veritas, you are spot on. The jobs our skilled blue collar workers used to work paid enough when I was a girl that a man could support his wife and five children on his one blue collar salary. Everything has been turned topsy-turvy ~ I saw my own husband try to hold on to a management position in a subsidiary of GE (with success)by working 50 to 60 hour weeks doing three jobs instead of his one because they outsourced the other two to Mexico. Finally they moved the entire plant to Mexico because they saved alot of money there.
At first when I started explaining my situation about how I migrated north because of the problems of high rent and high utility bills in Reno (influx of people from California due to influx of illegal aliens in California, etc.) I was a bit embarrassed, but I'm not anymore. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The story of what this economy is doing to working class people (along with others) should be told, and it should be told truthfully, as it really is. I doubt that there are any working class people on this blog besides myself, but it has effected my life.
I was fortunate to find work here and a lower cost of living.
My point is mostly that I come from an era where America did experience the white picket fence. The suburb I grew up in in the 60's was probably out of touch with larger metropolitan areas, and emphasis was not put on girls going to college. The "in" thing to do in our culture in that day was to work as a secretary, then marry young. Many married straight out of high school. Little did we know that we would see the day when millions of people would come into this country, take our jobs for less pay and no benefits, and we would suffer the consequences. Little did we know that our whole society was going to change, and a single woman who had previously depended on a man to support her would have a hard time supporting herself at a decent standard of living. I was single in the eighties and even then, I could still make a decent life for myself out of my lone salary. But, it gets harder and harder to do.
I have seen our nation and our world change dramatically in the last 40 years. In the seventies women went back to work and their income for the most part paid for luxury items for the family. A man could still support his family. I saw it change from that to where it is now ~ it takes two to make ends meet. I know lots of women who either moved in with a guy or married out of necessity, and we all know that leads to problems alot of times, if it's done out of necessity instead of for healthier reasons.
I think you are correct, Veritas. Unions may be the only hope we have left. The illegal aliens will take work for much less than it costs to provide for oneself, let alone a family. And like I said a couple of threads back, they do it by piling 8 to 12 people in an apartment, and pooling their money. They don't demand health care.
Where IS the protection and fairness for our working poor?
I think the ones protesting should be the working poor in this country, instead of the illegal aliens.
The foundations of your country?
They are quite respectful.
But 2 days ago, I had a conversation with my eldest daughter, that would have most Americans go nuts. Here it is.
Domitille : Mum, when are American elections due to take place?
(At least, she is interested in it)
Me : 2008, but in the meantime they are due to undergo midterm elections, and it might be a big turn.
Domitille : ???? Thinking.
Me : Something wrong?
Domitille : Well yes. As they have been mixing, and messing up with the world's affairs for years without being asked to, why is not the world taking place in their elections, as it plays so much in our lives They end up ruling everyone, willing or not.
Weird for sure, kind of attempt to frame foreign policies, but when someone in his/her 20's wonders about it, you may have have a reflection of the American policy abroad.
She was not agressive, she just got "thinking".
What do your children think?
Dick,
To the neocons, and these wealthy executives, "more is better". Maybe it becomes some kind of an ego trip to see who has the most millions, because we all know it wouldn't be that hard to survive on the interest from a few of those millions ~ and that includes living in a luxury home, driving luxury cars, having a beautiful vacation home, owning a plane and a boat. And traveling the world.
Dick, I have often wondered, what is the deal about the greed? You can only spend so much. When you die the rest gets passed down or to charity. What is it exactly that drives these greedy ones? And what is it that would encourage them to scrape more wealth at the expense of other human beings?
Andree,
My children think it will be miraculous if George W. Bush doesn't get us all blown up before the end of his term.
They did march in New York City protesting the invasion of Iraq.
We here at this blog know the cost. We know the stakes of having reckless and ruthless leadership.
We know it affects the world.
Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at April 15, 2006 03:24 PM
I think it all boils down to this simple equation:
Money = Power
TSP-
I think its more than just money=power. I see so many people go bonkers under the thought that "someone" is geting something for nothing that they would rather see no one get anything. And these are not the super rich but I feel its part of the same issue. It has to do with power and entittlement (if I have it, I deserve it) and fear and grasping.
It's a terrible disease of the human psyche/soul that we are witnessing.
Now back to Dick's basic thread. What has been going on in Frence for 6 weeks is just about what he says.
We have a social system created in 1958 by de Gaulle. Fair for everyone, except it might only be carried on in a world where America would have protected jobs, China, trade unions and fair payed jobs, India with welfare for the unemployed...
Is it today's reality? Unfortunately no. People are just treated as goods, the cheaper, the better, for the benefit of a few.
But there is a barrier to it, that many want to ignore, or are kept ignorant at : shortage of oil and gas. It's much closer than what we are told (4 years for Saudi Arabia).
What then? That's the beginning of the end of globalization, with poor wages on one hand and tremendous costs about transportation. Just a reminder, and time for us to get ready, because there will be other losses. it's high time to learn how to live with less, or as it was before.
The management class wants to impose a wage scale on the American worker, through the hiring of undocumented workers, or legal immigrants willing to work for much less than any American can while attempting to support a family, or even live alone in an apartment.
It is only appropriate then that the people impose a wage scale on management, through making all compensation (salary, perks, stock options) of any kind for non-business founders (and also exempting ground-floor shareholders in start ups) non-deductible for IRS purposes if above a certain threshold - say 30x the compensation of the lowest paid worker in a company.
Under this system, these managers could be still be paid extravagant amounts, but the people, through the people's tax code, would not be subsidizing it. Such a system would lead to greater returns for shareholders, and more money being available to hire additional American workers/taxpayers.
Madame and MKH,
Yes, how could I forget power and selfishness! And that good old sense of entitlement.
Money and power are a drug. People begin to live and breathe it. It consumes them. After a while, having more of it defines them. No wonder they have no compassion for others. Put in the wrong hands, it is devastating, as we are seeing. A president who gives a grieving mother of a soldier killed in Iraq a quarter with his picture on it and tells her not to spend it, is a prime example. Narcissism. Absorbtion with one's self, and lack of empathy for anyone else.
So, when will all move as the problem is international?
Just talking about it will lead nowhere, as trading goes on above our heads in the meantime. How many millions have been exchanged while we just type?
Dick,
I've had a thread header that's been percolating for some time. Now I'm going to have to write it.
Thanks for the (unconscious) prodding.
******************
Meanwhile, I will add that it's easy to lose track of reality as you earn more and more. You have your own reality, where you can't afford what you want, or you can't get what you want, or you don't have time to enjoy what you've got, or you have it all and don't like any of it. So maybe you need to keep looking.
But it's easy to lose track of the way you scraped through college, or your first year of marriage, or when your kids were young, or when college and retirement costs hit at the same time, or when your pension went down and your bills went up - the way you were able to live below your means and eat beans and rice or potatoes - poor people's food - and no matter how hard you worked or how little you slept or how desperately you avoided getting sick because you couldn't afford to take the day off to see the doctor, let alone pay the doctor - still you felt that at the end of the day, you were somehow satisfied, and going somewhere, and you loved your family and they loved you, and you were - dare I say it - happy.
I fear those who ascend the spiral staircase of money (and too often, greed) lose track of that feeling. Maybe more money would help.
Buddha talked about greed & compassion 3000 plus years ago - they are both part of human nature but we want to elevate the Buddha Nature (like Higher Self) - that is the compassion, like Kwan Yin the female Buddhisatva who will not go to heaven till all other living beings have gone. & she is my inspiration.
That is my religion in a nutshell.
We're so loving NYC but the locals we talk to - in Chelsea, in Greenwich Village, in Brooklyn - they lament the genrification so loss of character - the Gaps, Starbucks, upscale housing - chasing out regular people (the working poor to middle class).
Still, we heart NYC!!
Now that Jet Blue has a nonstop the coasts will connect.
Our B&B is full of Spanish & French - one Seattle woman there is my neighbor & an artist, yet I didn't meet her til I came to NYC! Her daughter went to school with my son & married a guy from Paris - they just flew in. & we're going to see Sebastien (from Paris), Bill Clinton's intern - tonight. We're going to an allnight celebration of life. Then tomorrow we'll go to the Easter Parade with Marjorie G & her husband. Then Monday night we hope to meet (gasp) Jane Fonda!! Then my neighbor I met here has a gallery opening, & then we head home!
NYC is a vibrant place & the weather is beautiful.
The best t-shirts I saw were both fairly unprintable at the moment - I would have to give more context or they might offend someone but I found them amusing.
Um, er. Uh. Hey. LE....
FWIW, when I said in the last thread that "I do so know whereof I speak" in re Atlanta's being or not being a representative city of "the South" -- it just might be that I said that because I actually *do* know whereof I speak in that regard, thankyouverymuch.
Virginia-Highlands... Candler Park... Grant Park... Candler Park again... and then intown Decatur. And always in the (404) area code, thankyouverymuch. Not the suburbs, not the surroundings, no outside-the-perimeter tilt-up bedroom communities. Never outside or even close to 285, never more than 5 miles from the Zero Mile Post. Intown, urban, totally-Atlanta all the way. For twenty years and change.
When I first started living in Atlanta, LE, Jimmy Carter was still in his first term as President. And when I'd finally had enough of the shallow pointless greedhead Dallas-clone that my fair city had turned into somewhere along the way and made the move from Georgia to Kentucky, Bill Clinton was already more than halfway into his second term as President.
I spent a full two decades years living, working, and being intimately involved with the political, economic, and cultural life of Atlanta. Not that it matters, but my mama's got a Daughters of the Confederacy marker on her tombstone. And as far as I'm concerned, I am still a southerner by blood and by inclination.
So if I say that "I do so know whereof I speak" in this particular context, then the odds are pretty darn good that I in fact actually do so know whereof I speak in this particular context.
And so, if you want to say that "[I] don't look on any area of the South that has a literate, cosmopolitan aura to it as being Southern. So, [you're] just humoring [me], since [I] think [I] know whereof [I] speak. What [I] said was an insult to this whole area of the country, by the way" as you did at the tail end of the last thread, well...
... let's just say that it's a good thing that my 13 generations of Tennessee and Virginia forebears raised me to be at least nominally a gentleman, which means that I would never actually tell you to go do what I am personally inclined to tell you to go do at this particular moment.
I recognize your points as stated in your posts from the previous thread. And I understand why and how you might be in something of at least a semi-high dudgeon about them at this point in your argument.
But if you're going to use that state of semi-high dudgeon to cast gratuitous and geocentric aspersions on someone who's actually been there, done that, then perhaps you might want to at least get your facts straight first.
Not that this means we can't let bygones be bygones and focus on our shared beliefs in what has to happen next and who has to do it and so on and so forth, you understand. But don't ever make the mistake of assuming without knowledge of the facts that my currently being stuck living here in a midwestern blue state corner of the country doesn't mean that I don't still have traces of red Georgia clay embedded under my fingernails, either.
(Oh, yeah -- and to state, as you did in your last previous post, that my point of reference in re Atlanta has anything at all to do with its "largely African American population", then I am thoroughly offended by your remark and you owe me an apology. Which I shall gracefully accept.)
...Thankyouverymuch.
yr hmbl otr crspndnt,
Otter
When conservative economists like CNBC's Larry Kudlow attempt to justify Bush's tax cuts, they often point to the example of John Kennedy - who cut taxes immediately upon entering the White House. Of course, what Kudlow never points out, and it took Kennedy's most recent biographer, Robert Dallek, to bring to my attention, is that the top tax rate through the Eisenhower era was 93%! In comparision, the top rate in the Clinton era was 36%.
So, when contemporary conservatives whine about taxes, they are whining about rates that are relatively low in comparision to those of the last century - the first "American" century.
Chuck in wherever you are now...
Posting about the B.S. on the last thread. I agree with your point exactly. Time to pitch the B.S. and get our act together, rather than validating their b.s. from 04~
Posted by: Veritas at April 15, 2006 05:20 PM
Maybe some of the aggressive poor behavior some of the elites in power exhibit is a result of self loathing turned outward.
Otter- I answered your e-mail Don't know why you found it necessary to post on two threads, other than to lure me from my lurking. You're obviously as Southern as is Atlanta, Georgia, home of Louis Grizzard city golf course. Read your e-mail. Back to the cave.
Oh Atlanta
by Little Feat
They got a place down Kentucky
Right down near Ohio
Where you can watch the planes at night
People line up to watch each flight
I said watchin' them planes
I wish I was on one
I'm sittin' here thinkin' 'bout my red head dream
If I could only see her tonight
Oh Atlanta, Oh Atlanta!
I said yeah! yeah! yeah! Atlanta, got to get back to you
Well you can drop me off on Peachtree
I got to feel that Georgia sun
And the women there in Atlanta
They make you awfully glad you come
I said watchin' them planes
I wish I was on one
I'm sittin' here thinking 'bout my crazy dream
If I could only be there tonight
Oh Atlanta, Oh Atlanta!
I said yeah! yeah! yeah! Atlanta, got to get back to you
We make a day and how just you and me
But the music plays all night
They got the boogie band blowin' that's bound for hell
And when they get to movin' they never stop
You just keep on playin' that down home beat
You just keep on layin' it down hot
I wish I was on one
I'm sittin' here thinkin' bout my red haired dream
If I could only see her tonight
Oh Atlanta, Oh Atlanta!
I said yeah! yeah! yeah! Atlanta, got to get back to you
LE:
You're a damn good writer, and a thoughtful and very knowledgable commentator also. So maybe luring you from lurking is not such a bad thing, nu?
:0)
and the monkey creeps in on little cat feat,
Otter
(P.S. It's Lewis, not Louis)
not that there's anything wrong with that you understand,
Otter
Yes, Lewis is correct. And he is the writer of the funniest joke in all of history. I cannot tell it on here, since I'm lurking and well, if you know the joke, you'd know why I couldn't tell it anyway. Suffice to say, it's about Uga, and the punchline is "You can't do that Bubba, that dog'll BITE you."
too bad I can't do that,
Otter
P.S. -- How many besides us here do you think have a clue as to who "Uga" is?
just wondering,
Otter
It would relieve a lot of tension. You obviously know the joke. Peace. Off to bed now. Nighty night.
GOP hones its core agenda
Flag burning, gay marriage, abortion top Republicans' Senate plan
Saturday, April 15, 2006; Posted: 8:17 p.m.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Protection of marriage amendment? Check. Anti-flag burning legislation? Check. New abortion limits? Check.
Between now and the November elections, Republicans are penciling in plans to take action on social issues important to religious conservatives, the foundation of the GOP base, as they defend their congressional majority.
In a year where an unpopular war in Iraq has helped drive President Bush's approval ratings below 40 percent, core conservatives whose turnout in November is vital to the party want assurances that they are not being taken for granted.
"It seems like for only six months, every two years -- right around election time -- that we're even noticed," said Tom McClusky of the Family Research Council.
"Some of these better pass," he added. "You notice when it's just lip service being paid."
Former presidential candidate Gary Bauer agreed that the effort matters.
"If they get to these things this summer, which we expect that they will, that will go a long way toward energizing the values voters at the base of the Republican Party," said Bauer, head of Americans United to Preserve Marriage.
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/15/GOP.checklist.ap/index.html
Several good ideas so far. I think that connecting a ceiling on management compensation to some relationship to worker salaries is great. I've read recently that the disparity in the United States, which is now grown to something like 107x workers' salaries, is completely different in Europe, where the ratio is closer to the one suggested above 30x.
It's funny that Buddhism came up. Of the books I've always loved is "Small is Beautiful: Economics As If People Mattered",
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060916303/sr=8-1/qid=1145152801/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5420580-9515119?%5Fencoding=UTF8)
written in 1973 by E. F. Schumacher.
(http://www.schumachersociety.org/)
In a short and sweet little book, he takes capitalism and the market system apart from a Buddhist perspective, making you shake your head about the common sense he proposes.
And earlier this evening, before I caught up on these comments, I picked up a book I loved years ago, Peter Matthiessen's "The Snow Leopard,"
(http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0140255087/sr=8-1/qid=1145153327/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-5420580-9515119?%5Fencoding=UTF8)
which combines a lyrical account of his journey into the high mountains of Nepal on a scientific expedition to look for goat-sheep creatures, with some very clear, if sometimes raw, thoughts about his long experience with Buddhism.
There's no question that the world is way down the wrong spiritual path, in our relationships to our fellow human beings, and in our relationships to everything else on the planet, living or not (like mountains, or oceans, etc.)
Watching China and India swallow the growth is good Western market lock-stock-and barrel has been a very sad experience.
Globalization in its current form is repulsive because its spiritual dimensions are so debased. Nothing has value outside of the "market" value, and the market unfortunately does not value almost everything that actually makes life worth living.
Pentagon Planned Iran Invasion in 2004
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041506X.shtml
British officers took part in a US war game aimed at preparing for a possible invasion of Iran, despite repeated claims by the foreign secretary, Jack Straw, that a military strike against Iran is inconceivable.
The above is from the UK's Guardian. Gee. I bet the silence from Lamestream Media on this side of the pond will be deafening....
Dick Bell
When I first moved to Seattle in 1978, a friend introduced me to the book Small is Beautiful.
He attended a banquet at Seattle Central Community College.
Each guest was assigned to a country and what they ate was dependent on which country they "lived" in. People with name tags for countries like US sat at the front tables and had a lavish
banquet. My friend was assigned to somewhere like Ethiopia or Bangladesh and cut a tiny bowl of rice.
I had been reading alot of Barbara Ehrenreich and people like that for a long time but when WTO was going to come to Seattle, I got really curious a few weeks before. Groups like Greenpeace were coming ahead of time to scope out the city and plan actions. Everyone was worrying about the Millennium and Y2K and I said (Nov . 1999), no something big is going to happen in Seattle at the WTO.
It's a global movement (antiglobalization) but I haven't heard too many people talk about it. I'm glad when I hear "peace and justice" uttered in the same phrase.
Well I'm typing this in a loud gay bar because it has free Wifi.
It's been our 2nd home- the front part if called Java Boy.
Not sure what we'll do on Easter when the Wifi places are closed.
Was on 42nd street tonight - what a shrine to capitalism - but it occurred to me that most of the corporations - like McDonalds, Nike etc. - they feed on people without much means, but multiplied by millions. There is a certain obscenity to it all.
Matthew I agree that Kudlow is a jerk but trying to compare tax rates now vs those in 1960 is impossible: you stated "took Kennedy's most recent biographer, Robert Dallek, to bring to my attention, is that the top tax rate through the Eisenhower era was 93%!"
the tax code and tax rates have been changed many times since the 1960s and the 93% rate is misleadng b/c there were numerous tax shelters and ways to avoid taxes which was mostly illiminated in the Bill Bradley 1986 tax revisions. Kudlow would not mention that Boone Pickens this year found a $26 million dollar loop whole recently by giving to a Katrina Fund, paying $0 in taxes, and the so called Katrina charitable loopwhole was specified targeted as an Oklahoma Univeristy golf program, not exactly what Congress intended.
To show how statistics lie, O'Reiley keeps repeating how at the 1/2 way mark of Clinton and at the same time for Bush, Bush's poverty rate is lower than Clinton's. Al Franken showed how that statistics is manipulated b/c George W.'s poverty rate was over 15% and Cliton's was 13% at that point in his Administration. Ahah said O'Reily Bush's poverty rate of of 12% is lower than Clinton's even though when Clinton left office his poverty rate actually dropped from 15% to 11%(which O'Reily fails to mention) while Bush's poverty rate has actually gone up(which he ignores) from 11% to 12 1/2% but with O'Reily's convaluted analysis he was claiming that Bush is actually better for the poor. What a joke, no one but maybe kudlow and O'Reily would dare make that point. I repeat this story to illustrate how the right can manipulate statistics to make their point which in reality has no validity. Be careful trying to compare apples to apples.
The special provision I was referring to in the T. Boone Pickens so called charitable contribution story, was also used by Dick Cheney under a special one year provision in the Katrinia Relief Act. Hopefully Cheney's $6.4 million one year deduction at least went to a real Katrina charity. The Pickens story is truly disgusting and should be held up as a symbol of the corruption in Congress and an example of why we need change. Another fleecing of America.
Chuck in Houston for All:
This is a good thread topic. I've thought a lot about this issue of income disparity and market solutions and how that relates to my own political philosophy.
And my bottom line is I'd rather live and die and bring up the kids in a community where the overwhelmingly common life is the middle class -- be it the yeoman small-holders of Jefferson or Jackson or the post-WWII union worker. I'd prefer that over being a memeber of an elite class hiding behind gated communities and security even if that meant giving up the McMansion and trimmings. I think that is the fundamental values issue that speaks to me in politics.
How we get from here to there is of course another matter!
Chuck in Houston
Chuck in Houston with more General Comments that I Probably Shouldn't Make but What the Hay:
Also, just wanted to throw out a comment regarding immigration. So many red-blue issues today are like a negative (in the photographic sense) of our Civil War. Remember the Irish-Black issues of the 1860's? Is there some resonance with Black-Latino issues now? If so, how do we make a win-win now? How could a win-win have been developed in the 1860's? Same goes for Scots-Irish-Black issues (see the website for James Webb running in the primaries for the senate seat held by George Allen). By the way, I don't like to look at things through an ethnic lens, as I think it is a false and misleading taxonomy, but identity politics is a real fact, and we ignore it at our risk. In general, I am with Veritas on this: it's a union issue (or should be).
One final thought: maybe the key to "immigration reform" is to look at how to get Mexico moving ahead rather than kicking people back into Mexico. Just a thought, sort of along the lines of addressing the root-causes of things. I haven't thought this through and I'm just spit-balling, but here goes. The problem is in Mexico more than in the US, but their problem is now ours as well. So we need to help them solve their problem to alleviate ours. Again, hope that came across right - I am just trying to point out that there is another way to look at this situation (which I guess I'd have to call an "internationalist" way).
Hope that made sense and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Chuck in Houston
PS: This also in a way speaks to the theme of this thread about the implications of a deep Lorenz Curve:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_curve
Little birdie, little birdie,
What makes you fly so high?
It's because I have a true little heart
And [unintelligible] don't care to die.
I'd rather be here honey,
Than any place I know.
But to help keep [unintelligible]
Down this old road I go.
Little birdie, little birdie,
What makes your wings so blue?
It's nothing else but grieving;
Grieving over you.
I'd rather drink Muddy water,
Rather sleep in a hollow log,
Than to stay here on this old river,
Be treated like a dirty dog.
Little birdie, little birdie,
What makes you fly so high?
What makes you fly so high?
It's because I have a true little heart
And I don't care to die.
http://www.nativeground.com/cooncreekgirls.asp
Chuck:
my eye is on the sparrow
and I'm sure she's watching too
chirp chirp hooray,
Otter
Much to my surprise, John and Elizabeth Edwards actually responded to my question about Fair Trade on their most recent podcast. It's, in fact, the very first question they address. For anyone interested, the URL for the podcast is:
http://media40b.libsyn.com/lndpeMh1bXqXd5Z1ZHScp2yrZHOY/podcasts/oac/John_Edwards_017.mp3
Met French & Irish at our B&B -
Sadly, the French were hesitant to tell where they were from - said they were afraid they weren't wanted in America (from Provence). I told them that the places in America where they weren't welcome, we weren't welcome either.
Met Irish & we talked Immigration - situations seemed rather parallel. There have been immigrants doing low-level jobs in our countries & others for years & years - as times become more competitive & jobs more scarce, it puts them in a more competitive situation with others who may need low-level jobs. They also suggested more people may be aware of the situation because of the media.
Love meeting all these people (& Spanish too). This is such an international city!!! Tomorrow we'll meet up with Sebastien at Global Cafe & hear about his internship with Bill Clinton, & hope to see Marjorie G again! She filled us in on all the election fraud stuff & trying to convince people to avoid insecure, unsafe equipment/procedures in Brooklyn & elsewhere. So many agree but are unwilling to actually give time, make calls etc. & so many public officials have their heads in the sand.
Glad you posted, DiAnne. I'd hoped you got to see Sebastian.
I sent an email with a plan for tomorrow morning and the Brooklyn Bridge. I need to be in the Wall Street area at 1:30, the Board of Elections.
As DiAnne said, states everywhere have Boards which don't know, or want to know, the facts, the costs, the verifiability. They've been invested for years in the idea of a fantasy, a modern machine.
For all the hand counters of paper ballots out there, it won't happen. Urban centers won't count them, unless for a recount, and the very idea of paper upsets them. Too much to bother with, take care of, but they know what they are dealing with, how to prevent the mistakes. That's the devil they know, but they'd rather go with the devil they don't know, and in NY, that is a 97% unobservable vote to hide the errors and the wrongly elected. Nirvana not knowing, or having to work that hard.
The vendors promise easy, and it's an abdication of responsibility to observe and oversee the elections, to then give control to the private vendors.
Our activists complain, but the can't focus on the moments that matter or tipping points. Immigration, impeachment, Darfur, all worthy, but all I'm asking for is that five minutes of multi-tasking.
When will we learn?