It Couldn't Happen to a Nicer Bunch

It's about damn time

Writing from a free Wifi place in Chelsea NYC that will have Drag Queen Puppet Bingo tonight. I love this city.

Catching little news blips and wondering why people like Bush, that nutball on trial for 9/11 and that other nutball from Iran can speak to very small audiences & get worldwide free publicity for their wacko ideas - while peaceful, positive people barely get any coverage.

Re media - be aware of threats to the alternative press such as the outfit from Phoenix that is buying up alternative papers like Village Voice and making them homogenous. Democracy Now interviewed disgruntled reporters who remembered better times.

Be aware of challenges to formerly excellent newspapers like the Des Moines Register - I heard on NPR reporters and readers who also remembered a better time. It got consolidated with a bigger media outlet & resembles more & more USA Today.

Then also, heard a story, also on NPR, & received emails from a couple of Congressional Representatives on this - the threat to the internet if certain laws go through that are favored by lobbyists from the communications industry - there would be a tiered, nondemocratic system where organizations with more money (like Fox) would be on the fast-track and smaller ones, (like The Nation, or us) would be slower and harder to access. This is not the way the internet was set up - there is a term for it that I can't remember, but it meant equal access. Changes are being snuck through while we're being distracted with other issues.

I'll check back!! Needed this vacation - will get ahold of Marjorie G.

Rumor has it, that Tom the Hammer DeLay may be on the White House list of potential replacements for Josh Bolten, as head the Office of Management and Budget. Perhaps the Bush administration sees some benefit in Delay's recent experience. After all with the budget woes under the Bush administration, a little swapping around of money might be helpful."

This Whitehouse is so embarassed about DeLay they seem ready to promote him to head of OMB. Seems like the more corrupt and incompitent his underlings the higher they are promoted. I believe we once called that the Peter Principle.

Hey, I hope Shrub does bring Tommy Boy on at OMB... and I hope he keeps reiterating his utmost support for Rummy... and I hope he keeps praising all of his cronies to the hilt now that the general public finally seems to be catching on to the poor decision making of the POTUS and its consequences.

All Petered Out.

THE OTHER SHOE DROPS:

ADMINISTRATION
Cheney Authorized Leak Of CIA Report, Libby Says
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Friday, April 14, 2006

Vice President Dick Cheney directed his then-chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on July 12, 2003 to leak to the media portions of a then-highly classified CIA report that Cheney hoped would undermine the credibility of former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, a critic of the Bush administration's Iraq policy, according to Libby's grand jury testimony in the CIA leak case and sources who have read the classified report.

http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0414nj3.htm

Posted by: Fe at April 14, 2006 05:20 PM

I still think Cheney will be forced to resign...

It's highly unlikely that the White House is going to appoint Tom DeLay to anything: the man is completely radioactive. This post is just one example of what we'll be seeing for the rest of the year as people finally come to their senses and accept what a rotten crew these people have turned out to be. As I said above, I don't think they're going to vote Democratic, but they might at least stay home.

As for Cheney resigning, Bush would then be able to appoint a new vice-president, who would have to be confirmed by a majority vote by both houses of Congress. Barring some catastrophe, we will never get past the VP appointment in the succession process, but for those of you who are counting, here's the current order, under Article XXV of the Constitution, ratified in 1967.

# Speaker of the House John Dennis Hastert
# President pro tempore of the Senate1 Ted Stevens
# Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice
# Secretary of the Treasury John Snow
# Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld
# Attorney General Alberto Gonzales
# Secretary of the Interior (Vacant)
# Secretary of Agriculture Mike Johanns
# Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez
# Secretary of Labor Elaine Chao
# Secretary of Health and Human Services Mike Leavitt
# Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Alphonso Jackson
# Secretary of Transportation Norman Yoshio Mineta
# Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman
# Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings
# Secretary of Veterans Affairs Jim Nicholson
# Secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff

I still think Cheney will be forced to resign...
Posted by: madame defarge at April 14, 2006 06:05 PM

From your keyboard to... whomever.

May your words be heeded.

The evil he and DumDum and Rummy and Rice and the rest of them have done, and will do if they are not stopped, will be felt in this nation (and likely the world) for generations to come. They are the enemies within.

Posted by: Richard Bell at April 14, 2006 07:19 PM

For some reason, "ship of fools" comes to my mind...

But I'd support the Secretary of the Interior(Vacant) for the position. Seems to have the right name/qualifications...

Posted by: Richard Bell at April 14, 2006 07:19 PM

That's quite a list of pit vipers!!! We'll have to put on fang-proof steel reinforced waders to keep them at bay and try to accomplish honest elections in '06 and '08....

I'm with madame: the vacant post of Secretary of the Interior would be the one to support!

"It's highly unlikely that the White House is going to appoint Tom DeLay to anything..he is radioactive"

you are probably right and maybe its wishful thinking on my part, but nothing would surprise me about the stupidity of this Administration. absolutely nothing. Tone deaf is the best way to describe them.

actually from what I have heard from the Libby Defense team it sounds like they are prepared to take Cheney down if it saves their client. Why wouldn't an '08 wanabee like McCain, Allen or Brownback be Bush's natural choice for VP if that happened? Didn't Agnew resign before Nixon and Ford was appointed VP with no opposition from a Democratic Congress?

Posted by dickbell at April 14, 2006 11:36 AM

Dick,

I hear what you are saying, but I still don't trust Rove. It wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't doing damage control by having some of these Christian groups make their displeasure with The Hammer known publicly.

I am in process of trying to dig out whether or not the Center for a Just Society is a PR firm, or a front firm for a political PR firm. When I went to their website to find out exactly what it is they do I didn't find out much of anything.

Stay tuned.......

Posted by: Ira at April 14, 2006 07:48 PM

Alright, you guys.....now I really AM gonna have nightmares......!

He wouldn't. He couldn't! I don't know if McCain would make a worse President than Bush, but my thought is that he wouldn't make a better one.

Eek!

And, there is ALOT of flak on the t.v. news today about the 5 U.S. military Generals who are speaking out asking for Rummy's resignation.

Bush seems to be standing by his man. Today.

My question is this.....would it give Bush a little fresh air to ask Rummy to resign and appoint a new SOD? Could the Republicans ask for Rummy's resignation to save their rears in November, blaming all the "mistakes" on Rummy??

It doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little Republicans doesn't add up to a hill of beans in this crazy world.

don't bogart that
Otter

Dick,

Thank you for that list. Very educational to say the least!

That list is could be a fountain of jokes for Jon Stewart, Maher, and Keith Olberman.

Cheney will be laughing his way to the bank if they force him to resign. According to rawstory, he earned 8.8M in o5!!!

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Cheney_releases_tax_returns_Friday_afternoon_0414.html

This is a strange day - I read the list of pit vipers while playing Drag Queen Puppet Bingo after having a watermelon martini.
The first prize is a free drink.

Earlier I was watching Fox News, since the only time I ever watch tv (except in rare cases) is in hotels. First they had a sympathetic portrayal of anti-foreigners burning Mexican flags. Then they had pro-Rumsfeld generals on who said those general criticizing him were bitter about not getting promotions.

This puppet is x-rated. I don't know if the right can really touch Chelsea but they have been closing down bars, using an old "blue law" where dancing is illegal except on the outskirts of town. Dancing is defined as "at least 3 persons moving synchronously." I wonder if they have a law about x-rated puppets conducting bingo games?

Too much irony. I did make contact with Marjorie G and we'll be going to a war having to do with Vietnam-era activism - a premiere.

DiAnne, the 7:45 is sold out; is the 9:55 at all tempting? Ends at 11:30.

Posted by: Otter at April 14, 2006 08:28 PM

Of all the blogs in the world, you had to pick this one.

Rick: Don't you sometimes wonder if it's worth all this? I mean what you're fighting for.

Victor Laszlo: You might as well question why we breathe. If we stop breathing, we'll die. If we stop fighting our enemies, the world will die.

Rick: Well, what of it? It'll be out of its misery.

Victor Laszlo: You know how you sound, Mr. Blaine? Like a man who's trying to convince himself of something he doesn't believe in his heart.

If Rummy resigns, all the blame for the war that is now on the Bush administration will go right out of the office with him.
He'll be the scapegoat- Bush's ratings may even rise because of it.
It'll all be about Rummy's decisions not to send enough troops in at the beginning and his sending in the wrong guys to do the rebuilding. The arguments about Rummy are all about process, not about the original decision to go in. And don't be surprised if the generals involved aren't Rovian plants to just get the process of Rummy's resignation started. He may very well be ready to resign, and wanting to fall on the sword for W. The generals are just there to help him.
Maybe it's just a theory, but with Rove still behind the scenes, don't be surprised.

Posted by: monkey at April 14, 2006 09:14 PM

Rick: I congratulate you.
Victor Laszlo: What for?
Rick: Your work.
Victor Laszlo: I try.
Rick: We all try. You succeed.

or, because it's Friday night...
Yvonne: Where were you last night?
Rick: That's so long ago, I don't remember.
Yvonne: Will I see you tonight?
Rick: I never make plans that far ahead

sted by: Linda Enterkin at April 14, 2006 09:33 PM

That all may be true, but Bush backing him solidly in the face of this mounting pressure makes him look even dumber than he did backing Brownie.

It emphasizes everything that is wrong with Dubya's decision making, leadership style, and ability to see a problem until long after the fact.

Like Iraq, Rummy is Bush's liability at this point, no matter how it goes.

Gin.

monkey- yes, Rummy is Bush's liability at this point. But, if Rummy should resign, the public may perceive it as the one who didn't know how to conduct the war being gone. They'll begin to think that without Rummy, this thing might have been a success after all, so it's not really Bush's fault, or Cheney's fault. Rummy is Bush's liability right now, but if Bush can put on his dumb act after Rummy's gone, the public might actually feel sorry for him for having trusted someone from his dad's team. Poor Georgy- he didn't have any experience when he want into office, so he tried to protect our country with someone who was mature and knowledgable. Put poor Rummy just got old and senile, and screwed up. No fault of Georgy's there- he was loyal to the end.
There always seems to be more than meets the eye with every single maneuver this administration makes. Bush won't fire Rummy- he'll just decide to retire prematurely. And I suspect it'll happen sooner rather than later.

Posted by: Linda Enterkin at April 14, 2006 10:48 PM

Linda, that's exactly what I've been thinking. It just seems too good to be true that a few generals are actually speaking up, and two of them spoke up today, of all things!!!

Gone is our innocence. Bush is dumb all right - like a fox. It wouldn't surprise me if that's what they are going to do......make Rummy the scapegoat. And the timing would be just right.
Get another SOD and walla! ~ we have the summer season just ahead to ramp up the war in Iraq and pull some troops out, then head for Iran.

I don't trust anything that has to do with that bunch.

I am in process of trying to dig out whether or not the Center for a Just Society is a PR firm, or a front firm for a political PR firm. When I went to their website to find out exactly what it is they do I didn't find out much of anything.

Stay tuned.......

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at April 14, 2006 07:48 PM

Well, I googled for quite a while earlier tonight, even tried Source Watch, but couldn't find out much about The Center for a Just Society. Was thinking maybe I could link it to Pat Robertson or Rove.

I read a lot of responses about my Cynthia Tucker posts. To make this clear, I am not slamming Dems (aka eating my own) or promoting anyone.

I understand that people want a "fresh face," but at the rate this country is going, I don't care about 2008 right now. I am very focused on 2006. The real purpose is to hold journalists like Ms. Tucker and others who distort information on our side accountable for what they report/write.

I will say this again, the goal of every left-leaning pundit is to hold Bush accountable for their actions, not let him off the hook, and stay on message, not eat your own. That's how the other side wins. If we haven't learn that lesson by now, then we are moving backward instead of forward.

I meant for "his actions."

Linda:

For the record, I have never ever made a disparaging post about Dean, Gore, Clinton (either), Clark, Kucinich, Edwards, etc. As I thought I made clear in my post, I don't care whether or not John Kerry decides to run for President again. This goes back to an old Fe point about "heros" and "David Bowie."

My point is basically don't lets throw out the baby with the bathwater. With all due respect, we have other fish to fry. Any focusing of discontent on John Kerry re-directs resources from the real problem. John Kerry, with all his faults, is not the problem. John Kerry is part of the solution, as, as I said, Senator, presidential candidate, private citizen, or whatever. I did not understand your point.

Chuck in Houston

Posted by: chuck at April 15, 2006 01:24 AM

"Any focusing of discontent on John Kerry re-directs resources from the real problem. John Kerry, with all his faults, is not the problem. John Kerry is part of the solution, as, as I said, Senator, presidential candidate, private citizen, or whatever. I did not understand your point."

Exactly.

Indie:

Thanks. What I was trying to say is that by dragging down those folks that have been out there fighting the good fight on the 90% of stuff we all agree on (and for decades), we are adding to the water on the mill that's working against us, and people sense that. To my mind that is not a good tactic. In a way, I am saying I am standing behind John Kerry for President 2004, even though that moment has gone, because a lot of the stuff that people accused him of was, excuse my French, BS, and if we let him get dragged through the mud again we're just validating the BS, regardless of who my run in 2008. The BS is the enemy to my mind. Also, as JK says, we need to focus on 2006, not 2008. One day at a time....

Hope that made a modicum of sense.

Chuck in Houston

On this old rock-pile,
With this ball and chain,
They call me by a number not a name, Lord, Lord.
Gotta do my time.
Gotta do my time,
With an aching heart,
And a worried mind.

Chuck in Houston

Hello from Lewes, Britain!

Last full day here and it promises to be restful--at my cousin's in the "country". We are wandering historic fields and homes, and off to the theatre tonight.

We saw "My Name is Rachel Corrie" the other night and I have so much to say about it, it will have to wait. I will say that there is a difference between what the Brits understand about the Iraq War and Guantanamo, and what most Americans understand (save all of you, of course!).

For now, off to the castle...

I’m takin’ my time
So please don‘t rush me
Tryin’ to sort out some things I didn’t know existed
I’ve been here before,
I know where the traps lie
You only take what’s there ‘cause the rest doesn’t matter

Well I‘m tired of talk,
So please don’t push me
You know I want the same kinda things that you do
You’re wasting your time,
The way you come to me
Slow down your rhymes and try to reason

Can’t make things move any faster,
By second-wishing them to death
You seem to be living on the level
It’s decent enough,
You got what you wanted
So why do you tell me, that I’m on the wrong track?
I’m doin’ the best I can do

I try to out-guess the situation
That I know you're not even fully aware of
And I want you to know,
If it keeps on this way,
Can’t keep on letting you bring me down
Can’t keep on letting you bring me down

(thnx and a tip of the ol' topfur to Billy Payne & Bonnie Raitt for this one this time)

songs sung blue,
Otter

Chuck- I agree with you 100%, and I don't think you have ever said anything disparaging about any of the other candidates, but some on here have. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but IMHO, that needs to stop. I'm not going to support Kerry as my first candidate of choice in '08, I'm sure of that, and evidently, Cynthia Tucker isn't either. But that doesn't mean I don't respect him to the fullest. But there have been a lot of comments on here made in a negative way about people who were Dean supporters in particular- and evidently the rancor of '04 isn't over yet. I wasn't for Dean in '04 either, but he's become very much a team player since then and I like him more every time he opens his mouth, for what it's worth. So why disparage any comments anyone makes by saying "she was a Dean supporter," or she's not really a liberal. Tucker is entitled to her opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. Yes, we do need to focus on '06 here, but immediatly after November, the primary season will begin. And what I'm seeing is the battles already heating up with disparaging comments about other candidates. As far as "taking care of our own," maybe Tucker shouldn't have made the offhanded remark she did about Kerry, she was wrong. But all the comments on the blog about Russ Feingold only doing what he's doing because he's planning to run for President are wrong too. And they're there because the people who make them are desparately hoping he won't be a challenge to Kerry so they're trying to cut him down. That's what I'm talking about. You can't say stick up for our own and then raise up Kerry as a saint above all others. We don't have a candidate for president yet, and unless this is a Kerry for President blog, as I said I think it may become, we need to stop slamming our own as much as Cynthia Tucker does. And BTW- she's a voice in the wilderness down here in the South- y'all might just remember that when you disparage her. What she does in Atlanta is not as easy as you think.

LE:

For better or worse, Atlanta stopped being "the South" a long time ago.

and yes I do so know whereof I speak,
Otter

Otter- I agree with you. Atlanta isn't "the South." But the circulation of the AJC is all over the South, in hotels and motels everywhere. My point, originally, way back before people on here started questioning Tucker's credentials as a journalist because she favored a different candidate than they did, was that Tucker was saying just what I was saying- there is a TREMENDOUS resentment from the African American community towards illegal aliens. We may be just throwing away a traditional Democratic base for a base who cannot vote yet if we continue to push for amnesty for illegals. And I also know whereof I speak. I haven't worked as a social worker for something like 30 years now. The job I choose to do is blue collar, and a large majority of workers that I work beside are African American. My husband is also a blue collar worker, and he agrees with me that this IS a large issue with African Americans here in the South. Maybe it's not where you come from, but it most certainly is down here. We can ignore that fact, and continue to push for amnesty, for Truth, Justice and the American way for all the world's citizens, not just for Americans, and we'll lose those who REALLY have a right to be considered important by their government- the American poor who are losing their jobs because of this immigration. Jerry Springer on yesterday's radio show even shut an African American caller off nearly mid sentence because he dared to tell Springer that he'd take the jobs the illegals were taking if he could only support his family by doing so. If I'm beginning to sound a little like Pat Buchanan, it's because this issue is affecting my town- it's my friends who are losing roofing contracts to companies who can do it faster because they've hired so many illegal aliens who will do roofing for minimum wage- something no one should EVER have to do, especially not an American citizen. So, whatever. I'll shut up about the issue now, because evidently there's no room for reality on here. It's all about lofty ideals, and those don't always work in the practice of real life. The issue was not changed by me, BTW. Check back on the posting.

And BTW- when I said Atlanta isn't "Southern" what I meant was that I'm aware that northerners don't look on any area of the South that has a literate, cosmopolitan aura to it as being Southern. So, I'm just humoring you, since you think you know whereof you speak. What you said was an insult to this whole area of the country, by the way. But we're pretty much getting used to it now- I only break into flames over that subject about once every two months instead of every month anymore.
Drugs help. So does exiting the blog for a couple of weeks ever so often. Think I'd better do that before the flames start.

Linda, can't believe we are all still at this.

As Cynthia Tucker is in so pivotal a position there, a beacon in the south, I wish she would take better care of her facts, as a journalist, and less the opinioned advocate to further any campaign. We all want that after 2004.

I don't begrudge Dean, only some followers, like Cynthia back then, and am grateful for his sense of grassroots and what he is doing now.

I don't think anyone here was saying Russ Feingold was insincere, as I specifically noted he wasn't, but being unduly canonized for a position that wasn't as hard for him. What kind of blowback if they'd found something. Mentioning that he says first with a plan, or cultivating the assertive left is political, but I don't fault him for positioning. Still a guy with the good positions.

In the end, most of the votes in that October were far away from where we were in March. Once we elected/selected a dangerous menace, we were sunk.

Let's please go forward without begrudging our electeds for an amiguous vote, so we can solve our problems with the leaders we have. Kerry is working hard for 2006, and with election reform, that's my focus, as well.

Marjorie- like I said, this started over an article on illegal immigration, not an article about the war. Check back. I didn't change the subject, someone else did. But now that it's come to the point that Otter's (who's voting for a Republican for congress, or so I hear) decided the only answer to the argument is to remove Atlanta as a Southern city, I think I'd better go chill out again for a couple of weeks. I have to do this ever so often- I'm not ashamed of being where I'm from, and Atlanta is as Southern as Mobile, Birmingham, or Natchez. You're not allowed to remove it from the South because it has a largely African American population. That's just BS, so I'll be back in a couple of weeks when the dust settles. Right now, I've got to go find my flame retardant suit.

Linda, there is no question in my mind that economics figure in here, and that somebody has to explain to me what lower skilled, or high-skilled but blue collar, workers in America are going to do to make a living in the current climate. Even former tech people are asking that question. And at some point, a candidate, or group of candidates, will get around to facing the larger issue - and they'll find strong support in America, and I suspect also in Europe, Japan, and all of the industrialized nations.

This isn't about returning to the protectionist policies of the past. They didn't work then, and they're not going to work now. This about having the imagination to create something new, a system that acknowledges the global perspective yet protects the rights of the lowly as forcefully as it does the brilliant and powerful.

Linda, really sorry for coming in the middle and making assumptions, and hearing our southern belle is feeling put upon. Although I wouldn't wish a former residence, Miami, on anyone, the south is quirky wonderful, but also just like everywhere else, when it wants to be.

The huge swath from Texas to Virginia is different in how we deny felons the right to vote, and reactionary politics, but not exclusively there.

Just like the world is globalized for good and bad, the north and south claim to very different only when they want to be.

Immigration debate has brought out the best and the worst in who we are. To the progressives who say there isn't a problem, I think there aren't laws protecting the range of people coming here for work and to live, as well as the employers. Needs to be clearer, and not punitive.

Now I hear the GOP has a radio announcement en espanol to the Hispanic radio stations, saying it was the Dems fault they didn't get the fair shake GOP wanted for them. Non-stop camapigning, and not enough governing.

Pensacola, isn't it? Lots of beach. Please enjoy, and decompress.

Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at April 15, 2006 01:05 PM

Hmm....The jobs most in danger of being outsourced these days are white-collar jobs, while those in least danger of being outsourced are being filled with illegal workers.

Either way, the companies can pay cheap wages, offer no benefits, and the workers have no protections. May I add that a crappy job no matter who holds it is no way to "bootstrap" your way up into society and hardly helps you achieve the American dream.

Either way, while the job market sinks ever lower, and workers do more for less, American consumers pay slightly lower prices, stockholders may see slightly greater gains, and executives reap enormous paychecks. Which they don't have to pay all that much tax on any more, although I'll admit they rarely did.

Once upon a time, our country had strong unions.

Posted by: Veritas at April 15, 2006 01:41 PM

Excellent summary. And eventually, as the consumer/worker feels more and more pressured by circumstances, consumer spending will decline, and an entire economy will follow that decline. And more white collar jobs will be outsourced, and more pressure will be put on consumers/workers trying to make ends meet...

We are traveling down a spiral staircase to hell.

Veritas, Matt,

Exactly. And where does that leave our children? Kids are graduating college and finding there aren't as many jobs waiting for them as they were told there would be before they got their education.

Veritas, you are spot on. The jobs our skilled blue collar workers used to work paid enough when I was a girl that a man could support his wife and five children on his one blue collar salary. Everything has been turned topsy-turvy ~ I saw my own husband try to hold on to a management position in a subsidiary of GE (with success)by working 50 to 60 hour weeks doing three jobs instead of his one because they outsourced the other two to Mexico. Finally they moved the entire plant to Mexico because they saved alot of money there.

At first when I started explaining my situation about how I migrated north because of the problems of high rent and high utility bills in Reno (influx of people from California due to influx of illegal aliens in California, etc.) I was a bit embarrassed, but I'm not anymore. I have nothing to be ashamed of. The story of what this economy is doing to working class people (along with others) should be told, and it should be told truthfully, as it really is. I doubt that there are any working class people on this blog besides myself, but it has effected my life.
I was fortunate to find work here and a lower cost of living.

My point is mostly that I come from an era where America did experience the white picket fence. The suburb I grew up in in the 60's was probably out of touch with larger metropolitan areas, and emphasis was not put on girls going to college. The "in" thing to do in our culture in that day was to work as a secretary, then marry young. Many married straight out of high school. Little did we know that we would see the day when millions of people would come into this country, take our jobs for less pay and no benefits, and we would suffer the consequences. Little did we know that our whole society was going to change, and a single woman who had previously depended on a man to support her would have a hard time supporting herself at a decent standard of living. I was single in the eighties and even then, I could still make a decent life for myself out of my lone salary. But, it gets harder and harder to do.

I have seen our nation and our world change dramatically in the last 40 years. In the seventies women went back to work and their income for the most part paid for luxury items for the family. A man could still support his family. I saw it change from that to where it is now ~ it takes two to make ends meet. I know lots of women who either moved in with a guy or married out of necessity, and we all know that leads to problems alot of times, if it's done out of necessity instead of for healthier reasons.

I think you are correct, Veritas. Unions may be the only hope we have left. The illegal aliens will take work for much less than it costs to provide for oneself, let alone a family. And like I said a couple of threads back, they do it by piling 8 to 12 people in an apartment, and pooling their money. They don't demand health care.

Where IS the protection and fairness for our working poor?

I think the ones protesting should be the working poor in this country, instead of the illegal aliens.

new thread.

[plugged back in here from next thread for contextual purposes]

----------

Um, er. Uh. Hey. LE....

FWIW, when I said in the last thread that "I do so know whereof I speak" in re Atlanta's being or not being a representative city of "the South" -- it just might be that I said that because I actually *do* know whereof I speak in that regard, thankyouverymuch.

Virginia-Highlands... Candler Park... Grant Park... Candler Park again... and then intown Decatur. And always in the (404) area code, thankyouverymuch. Not the suburbs, not the surroundings, no outside-the-perimeter tilt-up bedroom communities. Never outside or even close to 285, never more than 5 miles from the Zero Mile Post. Intown, urban, totally-Atlanta all the way. For twenty years and change.

When I first started living in Atlanta, LE, Jimmy Carter was still in his first term as President. And when I'd finally had enough of the shallow pointless greedhead Dallas-clone that my fair city had turned into somewhere along the way and made the move from Georgia to Kentucky, Bill Clinton was already more than halfway into his second term as President.

I spent a full two decades years living, working, and being intimately involved with the political, economic, and cultural life of Atlanta. Not that it matters, but my mama's got a Daughters of the Confederacy marker on her tombstone. And as far as I'm concerned, I am still a southerner by blood and by inclination.

So if I say that "I do so know whereof I speak" in this particular context, then the odds are pretty damn good that I in fact actually do so know whereof I speak in this particular context.

And so, if you want to say that "[I] don't look on any area of the South that has a literate, cosmopolitan aura to it as being Southern. So, [you're] just humoring [me], since [I] think [I] know whereof [I] speak. What [I] said was an insult to this whole area of the country, by the way" as you did at the tail end of the last thread, well...

... let's just say that it's a good thing that my 13 generations of Tennessee and Virginia forebears raised me to be at least nominally a gentleman, which means that I would never actually tell you to go do what I am personally inclined to tell you to go do at this particular moment.

I recognize your points as stated in your posts from the previous thread. And I understand why and how you might be in something of at least a semi-high dudgeon about them at this point in your argument.

But if you're going to use that state of semi-high dudgeon to cast gratuitous and geocentric aspersions on someone who's actually been there, done that, then perhaps you might want to at least get your facts straight first.

Not that this means we can't let bygones be bygones and focus on our shared beliefs in what has to happen next and who has to do it and so on and so forth, you understand. But don't ever make the mistake of assuming without knowledge of the facts that my currently being stuck living here in a midwestern blue state corner of the country doesn't mean that I don't still have traces of red Georgia clay embedded under my fingernails, either.

(Oh, yeah -- and to state, as you did in your last previous post, that my point of reference in re Atlanta has anything at all to do with its "largely African American population", then I am thoroughly offended by your remark and you owe me an apology. Which I shall gracefully accept.)

...Thankyouverymuch.

yr hmbl otr crspndnt,
Otter

Ok- I've been lurking, and I really am not going to post for a couple of weeks- I'm sick of the immigration issue and the fact that no one but people who have been affected by it seems willing to listen to reason. But, For what it's worth- I'm sorry to say you didn't know what you were talking about, but you just proved my point. You've lived in Atlanta, and you consider yourself to be a Southerner. So, where does the contention that Atlanta isn't the "south" come from? BTW- I'm not a member of the organization, but I'm eligible for a Daughters of the Confederacy" spot if I wanted one. I don't want one. And I'm not so sure that pointing out that Atlanta has a largely African American population is a racist remark- in fact, I'm very sure that it isn't . So, no apologies for that. Now, back to my cave. I only come out for direct insults, BTW.

Yes, I am a southerner, *and* I have lived in Atlanta. The two may overlap, but they are not automatically congruent.

Pointing out that the legitmate demographic makeup of Atlanta is predominately African-American is not at all racist. Stating sans evidence that said demographic makeup automatically influences my personal POV, however, is perilously close to implying that.

cheers (and roebuck),
Otter