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John Kerry Sets a Deadline
In Wednesday's New York Times, John Kerry issues a call for ending the war in Iraq: if the Iraqis cannot form a government by May 15th, Kerry wants to withdraw U.S. troops immediately. And if they beat this May 15th deadline, Kerry wants the new government to accept the withdrawal of all U.S. combat troops by the end of 2006.
Kerry's proposal overlaps Rep. John Murtha's previous withdrawal proposal, but Kerry goes one better thanh Murtha by setting specific dates and conditions.
Here's what Kerry wrote in the Times:
Half of the service members listed on the Vietnam Memorial Wall died after America’s leaders knew our strategy would not work. It was immoral then and it would be immoral now to engage in the same delusion. We want democracy in Iraq, but Iraqis must want it as much as we do. Our valiant soldiers can’t bring democracy to Iraq if Iraq’s leaders are unwilling themselves to make the compromises that democracy requires.
As our generals have said, the war cannot be won militarily. It must be won politically. No American soldier should be sacrificed because Iraqi politicians refuse to resolve their ethnic and political differences.
So far, Iraqi leaders have responded only to deadlines — a deadline to transfer authority to a provisional government, and a deadline to hold three elections.
Now we must set another deadline to extricate our troops and get Iraq up on its own two feet.
Iraqi politicians should be told that they have until May 15 to put together an effective unity government or we will immediately withdraw our military. If Iraqis aren’t willing to build a unity government in the five months since the election, they’re probably not willing to build one at all. The civil war will only get worse, and we will have no choice anyway but to leave.
If Iraq’s leaders succeed in putting together a government, then we must agree on another deadline: a schedule for withdrawing American combat forces by year’s end. Doing so will empower the new Iraqi leadership, put Iraqis in the position of running their own country and undermine support for the insurgency, which is fueled in large measure by the majority of Iraqis who want us to leave their country. Only troops essential to finishing the job of training Iraqi forces should remain.
For this transition to work, we must finally begin to engage in genuine diplomacy. We must immediately bring the leaders of the Iraqi factions together at a Dayton Accords-like summit meeting. In a neutral setting, Iraqis, working with our allies, the Arab League and the United Nations, would be compelled to reach a political agreement that includes security guarantees, the dismantling of the militias and shared goals for reconstruction.
To increase the pressure on Iraq’s leaders, we must redeploy American forces to garrisoned status. Troops should be used for security backup, training and emergency response; we should leave routine patrols to Iraqi forces. Special operations against Al Qaeda and other foreign terrorists in Iraq should be initiated only on hard intelligence leads.
We will defeat Al Qaeda faster when we stop serving as its best recruitment tool. Iraqis ultimately will not tolerate foreign jihadists on their soil, and the United States will be able to maintain an over-the-horizon troop presence with rapid response capacity. An exit from Iraq will also strengthen our hand in dealing with the Iranian nuclear threat, and allow us to repair the damage of repeated deployments, which flag officers believe has strained military readiness and morale.
For three years now, the administration has told us that terrible things will happen if we get tough with the Iraqis. In fact, terrible things are happening now because we haven’t gotten tough enough. With two deadlines, we can change all that. We can put the American leadership on the side of our soldiers and push the Iraqi leadership to do what only it can do: build a democracy.
Living in Kansas, I get a sense that the people here truly would like an alternative to the "culture of corruption" which IS the republican party today...but the one underlying theme I also hear..."the democrats dont have a PLAN!"
Well now one man has the nerve to speak out with a plan...thank you Mr. Kerry...thank you VERY MUCH!!!
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE SENATE TAKES A STAND........
And Feingold is getting bolder, on another note. He says he's now FOR gay marriage.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/04/AR2006040401624_pf.html
The Dems are slowly, but surely, getting their spine back - at least I hope so.
To bombard (bad expression, right) the Congress with phone calls tomorrow -
202-224-3121 Capitol Hill Switchboard
Forward the JK OpEd to your Member of Congress and ask them to support Kerry's plan. He is going to speak on the floor Thursday, if possible.
Now that the election season is heating up, we are at least seeing a Democratic leader take a stand. I wonder, will the Democratic Party be brave enough to take a stand with Kerry?
Well, I watched the PBS Special last night that covered Kerry's whole career and he had this in him, I knew. The man has a conscience and America is in danger of being backed into a corner by bad policy. Straw and Rice have been in Bagdad interfering with who Iraqis want at the head of their government - they wish to install their own puppet. It is time to do what Kerry is saying or the whole thing is even more of a farce. On the way back, let Straw and Rice both sleep on the florr.
OK. A deadline has been proposed, but it's not set in cement.
Set a deadline in cement, then stick to it!!!
Bring the guard and reserve troops home on the fastest planes out of Iraq and Afghanistan on May 16 (I'd prefer they leave no later than tomorrow), and redeploy the regular troops OUT of the area ASAP after that....
The invasion of Iraq was illegal and a war crime by the Nuremberg judgment, so there is no "honorable" way to "win" an illegal war that was a war crime to begin with. Leave immediately....
The plan I am sending you has been approved by many prominent thinkers and
activists in the field. Which includes: Benjamin Ferencz, Chief Prosecutor
at the Nuremburg Trials, Tom Hayden, Matthew Rothschild, Anthony Arnove, Danny Schecter,
Tony Benn- Former Member of the British parliament ,Reggie Rivers,
Robert Jenkins, Andrew Bard Schmookler and others.
I formulated this plan in September 2004, based on a comprehensive
study of the issues. For my plan to be successful it must be implemented
with all seven points beginning to happen within a very short period of
time.
I have run up against a wall of doubt about my plan due to it's
rational nature ,and due to it's adherence to placing the blame on the
invaders, and then trying to formulate a process of extrication which would
put all entities in this conflict face to face, to begin to finally solve
the dilemmas that exist.
If you read my plan you will see that it is guided by a reasonable
and practical compromise that could end this war and alleviate the
internecine civil violence that is confronting Iraq at this juncture in it's
history.
I am making a plea for my plan to be put into action on a wide-scale.
I need you to circulate it and use all the persuasion you have to bring it
to the attention of those in power.
Just reading my plan and sending off an e-mail to me that you received
it will not be enough.
This war must end-we who oppose it can do this by using my plan.
We must fight the power and end the killing.
If you would like to view some comments and criticism about my plan
I direct you to my blog: sevenpointman
Thank you my dear friends,
Howard Roberts
A Seven-point plan for an Exit Strategy in Iraq
1) A timetable for the complete withdrawal of American and British forces
must be announced.
I envision the following procedure, but suitable fine-tuning can be
applied by all the people involved.
A) A ceasefire should be offered by the Occupying side to
representatives of both the Sunni insurgency and the Shiite community. These
representatives would be guaranteed safe passage, to any meetings. The
individual insurgency groups would designate who would attend.
At this meeting a written document declaring a one-month ceasefire,
witnessed by a United Nations authority, will be fashioned and eventually
signed. This document will be released in full, to all Iraqi newspapers, the
foreign press, and the Internet.
B) US and British command will make public its withdrawal, within
sixth-months of 80 % of their troops.
C) Every month, a team of United Nations observers will verify the
effectiveness of the ceasefire.
All incidences on both sides will be reported.
D) Combined representative armed forces of both the Occupying
nations and the insurgency organizations that agreed to the cease fire will
protect the Iraqi people from actions by terrorist cells.
E) Combined representative armed forces from both the Occupying
nations and the insurgency organizations will begin creating a new military
and police force. Those who served, without extenuating circumstances, in
the previous Iraqi military or police, will be given the first option to
serve.
F) After the second month of the ceasefire, and thereafter, in
increments of 10-20% ,a total of 80% will be withdrawn, to enclaves in Qatar
and Bahrain. The governments of these countries will work out a temporary
land-lease housing arrangement for these troops. During the time the troops
will be in these countries they will not stand down, and can be re-activated
in the theater, if the chain of the command still in Iraq, the newly
formed Iraqi military, the leaders of the insurgency, and two international
ombudsman (one from the Arab League, one from the United Nations), as a
majority, deem it necessary.
G) One-half of those troops in enclaves will leave three-months after they
arrive, for the United States or other locations, not including Iraq.
H) The other half of the troops in enclaves will leave after
six-months.
I) The remaining 20 % of the Occupying troops will, during this six
month interval, be used as peace-keepers, and will work with all the
designated organizations, to aid in reconstruction and nation-building.
J) After four months they will be moved to enclaves in the above
mentioned countries.
They will remain, still active, for two month, until their return to
the States, Britain and the other involved nations.
2) At the beginning of this period the United States will file a letter with
the Secretary General of the Security Council of the United Nations, making
null and void all written and proscribed orders by the CPA, under R. Paul
Bremer. This will be announced and duly noted.
3) At the beginning of this period all contracts signed by foreign countries
will be considered in abeyance until a system of fair bidding, by both
Iraqi and foreign countries, will be implemented ,by an interim Productivity
and Investment Board, chosen from pertinent sectors of the Iraqi economy.
Local representatives of the 18 provinces of Iraq will put this board
together, in local elections.
4) At the beginning of this period, the United Nations will declare that
Iraq is a sovereign state again, and will be forming a Union of 18
autonomous regions. Each region will, with the help of international
experts, and local bureaucrats, do a census as a first step toward the
creation of a municipal government for all 18 provinces. After the census, a
voting roll will be completed. Any group that gets a list of 15% of the
names on this census will be able to nominate a slate of representatives.
When all the parties have chosen their slates, a period of one-month will be
allowed for campaigning.
Then in a popular election the group with the most votes will represent that
province.
When the voters choose a slate, they will also be asked to choose five
individual members of any of the slates.
The individuals who have the five highest vote counts will represent a
National government.
This whole process, in every province, will be watched by international
observers as well as the local bureaucrats.
During this process of local elections, a central governing board, made up
of United Nations, election governing experts, insurgency organizations, US
and British peacekeepers, and Arab league representatives, will assume the
temporary duties of administering Baghdad, and the central duties of
governing.
When the ninety representatives are elected they will assume the legislative
duties of Iraq for two years.
Within three months the parties that have at least 15% of the
representatives will nominate candidates for President and Prime Minister.
A national wide election for these offices will be held within three months
from their nomination.
The President and the Vice President and the Prime Minister will choose
their cabinet, after the election.
5) All debts accrued by Iraq will be rescheduled to begin payment, on the
principal after one year, and on the interest after two years. If Iraq is
able to handle another loan during this period she should be given a grace
period of two years, from the taking of the loan, to comply with any
structural adjustments.
6) The United States and the United Kingdom shall pay Iraq reparations for
its invasion in the total of 120 billion dollars over a period of twenty
years for damages to its infrastructure. This money can be defrayed as
investment, if the return does not exceed 6.5 %.
7) During the beginning period Saddam Hussein and any other prisoners who
are deemed by a Council of Iraqi Judges, elected by the National
representative body, as having committed crimes will be put up for trial.
The trial of Saddam Hussein will be before seven judges, chosen from this
Council of Judges.
One judge, one jury, again chosen by this Council, will try all other
prisoners.
All defendants will have the right to present any evidence they want, and to
choose freely their own lawyers.
Interesting article at alternet: http://alternet.org/blogs/themix/34332/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060405/ap_on_re_us/press_secretary_arrested
Homeland Security Official Arrested
This link has a picture of the alleged felon....
Homeland Deputy Arrested in Seduction Case
Yahoo has changed the headline for the arrest of the alleged child molester. They've added the word "Seduction"!!!!!!!
When did child molesters become seducers?!?!?
Wisconsin Referendum Update
Wisconsin Voters: 34,851 to 21,347 say bring the troops home NOW.
Follow the results: http://www.channel3000.com/politics/4347009/detail.html
Nonny:
ROTFLMAO!!!
That article, on top of Delay's leaving Congress and Kerry setting a deadline--has just made my entire day!!
Fe
I'm in the same position .. wow.
Howard Roberts had quite a detailed plan above. Since Murtha supposedly speaks as a kind of surrogate voice for high-level officers and managers in the Pentagon, we already knew they were seething over there across the river. Kerry's call is going to sound better every day that another group of Americans dies, and many more are horribly wounded. It looks like just plain common sense to me, but I'm sure the right-wing will be in full coordinated bleat by tomorrow morning. Each and every one of us needs to go on a quick mission tomorrow to some Bush blogs/red blogs and do a little sparing. We know there are doubts growing even within the neo-cons, so a little nudging can be helpful. If we're not going to withdraw soon, then when are we going to leave? Bush has already said after 2009. That's way too late for me--what about you?
richardbelldc
You're right. I went to a more conservative place today and heard people talking about how many have been killed in the last few days. Now is the time.
October's exit plan didn't get much attention, and it was good, and thorough.
We need to convince the Dems to get behind this.
Marjorie G
Speedreading around the blogs, same old same old.
All in all, though, it's hard for anyone to really argue with a sensible plan.
Posted by: Fe at April 4, 2006 11:52 PM
One just can't make up fiction stranger than truth!!! :-) ROTFLMAO! :-)
All that, and then madame's link to the WI referendum to bring the troops home... won! :-)
Ya-a-a-a-y!!! :-)
Wish we could get a referendum like that on the ballot in MN, but we have a neoCon gov who's lips are surgically attached to neoCon butts (he just got back from another trip to Iraq, this time with McCain, Feingold and others, and all local media could do was speculate on whether or not our governor would be running on the presidential ticket in '08; sickening).
What the rightwingnuttia world is trying to do in this state is ask us to vote on an amendment this fall to the state constitution to ban same-sex marriage. Just defies logic, in light of the fact that the state senate just got a bill out of committee to help pay for a baseball stadium (it has to go to the state House committee next), and the baseball team's owner regularly makes the Fortune 500 list every year. Noon Snooze carefully did not mention the baseball owner's yearly ranking on the Fortune 500 list when they talked about that idiotic stadium bill that baseball has been pushing for many years - and foolball players also want their own stadium (separate, of course) and the U of M wants a stadium (which is apparently going to get through the state legislature 'cuz it's attached to the university/education). So many more important things people could talk about or vote on, and the wingnuts want a state amendment to ban same-sex marriage. Naturally, I fired off an email to the TV station asking them to mention the baseball team owner's Fortune 500 status at the same time they mentioned the baseball stadium bill on this evening's news.... Utter foolishness! (I didn't watch, but I did tape the 10 pm news because I forgot to turn off the video when I taped Boston Legal, so will go watch it to see if it's mentioned.)
But today's news for the downfall of a few "moral" wingnuts was good to hear.... :-) I'll take the small victories as I find them, and hope the bigger victory is censure, impeachment, and war crimes charges starting with the top "people" on down.......
I am so excited!!!
Thank you, John Kerry.
I am going to sleep alot better tonight.
I just got through to Kerry with my plan.
His ideas are typically vague on the issues.
I hope he really reads my plan.
There is no other one as comprehensive and workable.
Posted by: karen at April 4, 2006 11:15 PM
Sure will do. Will be gone away from my computer most of the day tomorrow, so am doing it now.
Thanks, Truth!
Posted by: richardbelldc at April 5, 2006 12:03 AM
Pet Goats can "bleat" all they want; they've scapegoated enough people on their petards by calling them unpatriotic if they don't toe the party line and spout patriotic propaganda. There is nothing more patriotic today than dissent and common sense - and bringing our guard and reserve troops home immediately, and the regular military shortly thereafter.
Bringing troops home after '09 is WAY, WAY too late. Too many thousands of people (ours and 'theirs') will be dead by then if this state of insanity (aka war) continues.
I'd prefer the troops (esp. guard and reserve) start home tomorrow morning on the first troop transports out of Iraq and Afghanistan. In lieu of that, I'll take May 16.... but not one day later.
I am heartily encouraged by various states and cities putting resolutions on their ballots to bring the troops home. Our senators and representatives in the Beltway Bubble need those nudges to give them some backbone to stand up to The Cretin, the Vice Cretin, and their Criminal Cabal... and they need the reminder that their constituents are getting danged impatient to stop the illegal war (among other abuses of power on the part of the 'executive' branch), or they can be voted out of office come November....
Howard Roberts
I think the word is "nuanced" - the failure is often on the part of the recipient.
Howard Roberts, thanks for your efforts to ending this war. Feel it possible that all your specifics may be too specific, still, considering where we are starting and need to be?
How about we just figure out how to extricate ourselves & get some backing for doing so ..
I am heartily encouraged by various states and cities putting resolutions on their ballots to bring the troops home. Our senators and representatives in the Beltway Bubble need those nudges to give them some backbone to stand up to The Cretin, the Vice Cretin, and their Criminal Cabal... and they need the reminder that their constituents are getting danged impatient to stop the illegal war (among other abuses of power on the part of the 'executive' branch), or they can be voted out of office come November....
Posted by: NonnyO at April 5, 2006 12:30 AM
That is very encouraging. Does anyone know something we could do to inspire these types of resolutions?
Also, NonnyO, B.L. was great tonight. Go watch.
Good stuff on the blogs that carried this -
some people lack background
or context
I will go to sleep a little bit more happy knowing this will
hit the press tomorrow - waiting to see the reactions.
We will also have some educating to do.
We need to back this.
This is so cool!
http://www.progressiveu.org/201814-john-kerry-on-iraq-we-will-defeat-al-qaeda-faster-when-we-stop-serving-as-its-best-recruitment-tool
I Googled it!
Another idea I have is to tell my representatives how their constituents REALLY feel here in deep red. EVERYONE I talk to except the fundies are SICK of the war, sick of Bush and think he has really damaged everything. They also realize how dangerous it has all become to everyone.
And I mean EVERYONE I talk to except the fundies!
I have written them letters before questioning their votes when I think I need to, and applauding them when I can. I haven't told them yet about the climate at home. I think we should all tell our reps about the climate at home. It's important they know.
Truth Shall Prevail
My mom says the same thing!
Liberal Turf Wars. There isn't any other reason to not get behind this plan, the anti-war people always complained about not having a date certain. Well now there's a date certain. It would be a shame to let this opportunity pass us by and let who knows how many more people die over "Liberal Turf Wars". Just shameful.
That is very encouraging. Does anyone know something we could do to inspire these types of resolutions?
Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at April 5, 2006 12:43 AM
Follow the results: http://www.channel3000.com/politics/4347009/detail.html
Posted by: madame defarge at April 4, 2006 11:51 PM
TSP, follow the link that madame posted above, and see if there is a contact person who could give advice about how to go about putting a referendum to end the illegal wars on this fall's ballot - I notice one community had a question about confidence in Bu$h, and it ended up to be basically a 'vote of no confidence.' The WI referenda were in local areas around the state; it was not a statewide referendum, but from local individual communities alone; most seem to have been at a city level. Perhaps your local city council, township board, county commissioners or an attorney for any of them could advise you. Or contact your county or state's Dem party headquarters for advice on how to get a resolution/referendum on the ballot similar to what Wisconsin people had. Maybe you could contact any of the WI cities to find out the exact wording, then see if it can be copied or adapted for ND ballots this fall. (Vermont is trying to do something with a bit more teeth to it; they're trying to start impeachment proceedings from the state level following Jefferson's handbook. I posted a link to the story a couple of threads back. But Vermont's attempt to get impeachment proceedings started is an entirely different situation from getting a referendum on the ballot.)
If anyone says no, pull my old faithful trick to get results: go over their heads to a supervisor... or someone up the food chain who has more power or authority - and don't forget secretaries often have more info than their own bosses if they've been at their jobs for a long time. You'll get both criticism and admiration for being a ballsy broad... but you'll get answers and good advice from someone, eventually! (I was the first person to have the job I did at the time in my district and no one had had my position before, so I had to learn these things from scratch with no advice from supervisors who disappeared right after I got to work in the morning and didn't come back until late afternoon; I ran the office, and eventually I became very good at it. I just called it "networking" - it took me a while to reach all the right people, but I ended up with a whole network of people to call for specific answers to specific questions, I was regularly praised for my good disposition and public relations skills... and I got results!)
These referenda/resolutions to end these illegal Iraq - Afghanistan wars are all coming from the grass roots. Goodness knows, we haven't been able to rely on our senators and representatives in our Clueless Congress to put pressure on the administration or even to stand up to The Cretin, Vice Cretin, and their Criminal Cabal since 2000! Grass roots efforts and protesters ended the Viet Nam war. In the end, they wore down the politicians and they had to opt for peace at any price or they wouldn't be elected or re-elected. It's come to that same crossroad again over the illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan (not to mention the issues surrounding illegal torture and detention of people and the illegal spying on our own citizens). There is no way to "honorably" end a war that is both illegal AND a war crime by Nuremberg judgment standards and the Geneva Convention, and illegal, unjust, unethical, immoral, and dishonorable wars certainly can't be "won" by any definition. Best to just end it and pay reparations to the Iraqi people so they can rebuild their own country (and the US needs to shut up and stop dictating who runs their country after they freely elect their own heads of state). Period.
Of course, keep writing the legislators. I had a letter in my snail mail from Senator Kent Conrad in ND when I checked my PO box on Monday. Coulda knocked me over with a feather that there were specific paragraphs addressing my "concerns" - as he/his secretary labeled my points - but I had a response and it was a page and a half worth! It's more than I've had from my own legislators, but Conrad knows my nephew is in the ND guard (the top of his email form on his web site asks non-ND people what their connection to ND is, and my first sentence said my nephew is in the ND guard unit that just got sent to Afghanistan) and he knows that even if he is from my neighboring state, I want my nephew home, dammit! (Well, I expressed myself better, but that was the gist of some of what I wrote.) Since both of ND's senators are Dems, perhaps one of their staff members could even give you advice. Try Conrad; if his secretary had time to answer me, I would think someone has time to address the concerns of a resident of the state. But if you want a local referendum modeled on what WI did, get advice from WI, then get advice from your local people, start at the city/township/county level first, find out what's needed to put a referendum/resolution on the ballot in November, then move on up the food chain as needed....
I plan to keep emailing legislators - my own, or senators from other states, if necessary. I plan to keep on emailing local TV stations when I see them broadcasting news irresponsibly (or ads like the pro-war propaganda ads which ultimately ended up with me being one of the people quoted in one of their segments). I'm quite sure national news ignores my emails, but I also write to them when I hear particularly egregious snafus. I may need a new keyboard by November (the one I have has a groove in the space bar already, and some of the letters are actually wearing off the keys!), but I will get my points across, one way or another!
I feel reasonably confident that the Cluless Congress in the Beltway Bubble won't do a danged thing about standing up to Bu$hCo and their corporate fascists without being pushed and prodded and having their spines forcibly fused with titanium rods and screws as a result of pressuring them from the grass roots level. There's nothing like the threat of withholding votes or working against them to get a politician to listen up right quick - and this IS an election year, after all!!!
Good Luck!!! :-)
PS: Yes, BL was good... it was a rerun that I remember seeing before, but I loved the happy ending with the child being rescued from the homicidal pedophile, even if the means to get him weren't quite kosher! And when I listened to the news I'd taped by accident, I found out that idiotic proposal to put an amendment on the state ballot to block same-sex marriages was defeated in committee by a 5-4 vote! That state legislator (a woman with wingnuttia connections) was symbolically bitch-slapped! Ya-a-a-ay!!
Max Hastings | The New Definition of Military Valour - Saying No To Politicians
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0403-20.htm
Boston Globe | Standing Up To Bush
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0403-23.htm
Daytona Beach News-Journal | Protesting is Not Terrorism
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0403-22.htm
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2006/04/05/notes040506.DTL&nl=fix
Who Will Stop The Evil Jogger?
One TV commercial says all you need to know about GW Bush's America. And trophy wives
By Mark Morford
Excerpt:
But, you know, enough. Basta. I am sick, made nauseated, made furious by the relentless plays on phony childish fears. I have had enough of insidious horror movies and schlocky cop dramas and inane TV commercials right along with their ideological brethren in the NRA and the Department of Homeland Security and the sneering GOP, all of whom make hollow attempts to invent more dangers in the world for their own violence-laced agendas.
I am done, furthermore, with a villainous Republican-poisoned government whose sole agenda for the past five years has been to force the bitter cement of counterfeit fear into every joint and cranny of fluid and luminous life, all while brutally ignoring all the genuine problems and woes of the planet (global warming, poverty, abstinence programs, Ashlee Simpson, etc.). They are cretins and ideologues and they deserve a deep sense of shame.
It is time. I am blocking it out. I have now installed a different sort of security system, one that sighs and screams like a banshee and calmly but automatically raises the middle finger of my smiling id whenever these fear synapses are being hammered like a warbly high note at a Celine Dion concert. Eat my evil black hoodie, you insidious sociopolitical fearmongers. Yours is a tale full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. And by the way, get the hell off my lawn.
Howard Roberts.
Lots of good points.
I think the debt repayment is wrong as we are the ones who forced the costs to occur.
The Pottery Barn Rule rules.
The country must be put back to the infrastructure and econmic state prior to the war at no cost to the Iraq people.
After that, they are financially on their own.
Grr, my computer kept seizing up when I tried to post comments.
I'll try again...this is a great political move - calling the other side's bluff - but it can only be that, a political move. From a logistician's perspective....It takes a minimum 30-90 days to schedule personnel/equipment for air or sea movement. Even if Bush were to want everyone out NOW, we would be hard pressed to even get a majority of the troops out by May 15. And that does not count the permanent bases we are building or all the equipment/vehicles/ammo we have amassed over there in the past three years. Are we going to abandon those billions of dollars' worth of stuff?
Deployment/redeployment happens in two-year cycles; right now they are on 06-08. There are still a lot of "requests for forces" and there is no decrease in the numbers being sent out. Permanent units are being established over there.
Don't get me wrong, I think it is good to draw a line in the sand and I support bringing home everyone sooner rather than later, ASAP in many cases. But it just isn't logistically possible to do it so quickly. It seems easy to throw a bunch of people on planes but when you get into the details you realize how complicated it is.
V,
I am sure he realizes the logistics are horrendous; after all, he does have military experience! (unlike those who put this POS plan together in the first place).
But I also sense he has just had enough of the troop abuse. I sense anger here; hence the line in the sand.
Diplomacy, negotiations, and a strong supportive stance on empowering the leadership in Iraq (imperfect as it is)--not a bad menu, especially considering what we have been served for the past three years. Not to mention what the Iraqi people have been served...
This just in from Code Pink (and in line with the thread header as well!)
April 5, 2006
Dear CODEPINK Activist,
CODEPINK's Iraqi Women's Tour is coming to a close. As part of our Women Say No to War campaign, six courageous Iraqi women traveled to the US to speak about the realities of the war and occupation of Iraq. In the nearly four weeks that have passed since the women arrived, they participated in events in over 75 cities in over 20 states. They spoke to students and teachers, community organizers and elected officials, policy makers and the general public. The press coverage has been extensive: from the New York Times to Florida's Sun Sentinel(http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/columnists/sfl-mayocol19mar19,0,4401646.column), from PBS (http://foreignexchange.tv/?q=taxonomy/term/22) to CBS Evening News to Democracy Now (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/06/1424239&mode=thread&tid=25).
Everywhere the women went, people welcomed them into their towns, homes, and hearts with appreciation for their courage and willingness to share their stories.
Take part in the virtual Iraqi women's tour online!
See blogs and photos
(http://www.womensaynotowar.org/article.php?list=type&type=119), articles (http://www.womensaynotowar.org/article.php?id=803), radio interview (http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=17408), and a five-minute video clip
(http://wbjourdan.com/codepink.mov).
View frequently asked questions and the women's responses here (http://www.womensaynotowar.org/article.php?id=925).
To hear what the women are saying about their experience touring in the US, click here (http://www.womensaynotowar.org/article.php?id=924).
With this tour, we helped bring to light the harsh realities of life in occupied Iraq and the need to end the occupation so that Iraqis can determine their own future. While we in the peace movement have made great headway in changing public opinion about this war, we have a long way to go to change the debate in Congress.
In this vein, we ask our sisters and allies in the US to join a national call-in day TODAY to tell members of Congress to vote for a debate on Iraq.
Please call your Congressional representative TODAY, this Wednesday, April 5 at 202-224-3121 or 888-355-3588. Go here to find out more about the national call-in day and read a suggested script (http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?list=type&type=132).
Together with the Iraqi women we say, La li ekt tilal! End the occupation!
In solidarity,
Aseel, Dana, Eman, Entisar, Faiza, Farida, Gael, Jodie, June, Medea, Meredith,
Nadje, Nancy, Rae, Rashad, Sureya, and Tiffany
P.S. Start planning now to join CODEPINK in DC for our 24-hour Mother's Day Vigil in front of the White House, May 13-14. For more details and to sign up to attend this amazing weekend, go here (http://www.codepinkalert.org/article.php?id=894). And don't forget to write a letter to Laura Bush and sent it to us at laurabush@codepinkalert.org. The best letters will be used in our upcoming book "Letters to Laura."
Benson on DeLay.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/benson/
Posted by: Veritas at April 5, 2006 07:52 AM
I had the same thoughts about the logistics...but I am clueless when it comes to military strategy & tactics. What came to my mind however was the fall of Saigon and how quickly we got people out then. It may not be the best comparison based on all the other circumstances/events in war, but it does prove that we can mobilize quickly to evacuate.
V.,
When we left VN, equipment was left where it was parked. It it couldn't be flown out, it was left behind.
I think a more orderly withdrawel and draw-down will be invoked.
But the exit must be quick or those that are left will be attacked.
We are still responsible for fixing the infrastructure.
Posted by: madame defarge at April 5, 2006 08:25 AM
Plus, you must factor in the current incompetence level of those making plans for any proposed pullout.
What could go wrong?
Posted by: monkey at April 5, 2006 08:32 AM
Yeah, that thought occurred to me too... At least Nixon had a brain and knew how to use it...
Posted by: NonnyO at April 5, 2006 04:45 AM
Thanks, will try Conrad as far as help with the resolutions idea.
He is good at answering letters, isn't he! I received a three and a half page letter from him regarding a letter I wrote him criticizing a couple of his votes (bankruptcy bill and Alito), among others. He answered me thoroughly, although I didn't like his answers. Said Alito looked him right in the eye and told him he wouldn't bring an ideological agenda to the bench. Cough.
I wrote him again last night asking him to support Kerry's withdrawal plan for Iraq. Told him what the mood is here in his state. He's running for re-election this year and was threatened by Dobson, if that tells you anything!!
A quick question before I run, I saw again a clipping this morning that my dad sent me from a Nevada paper a little while back of a cartoon:
It was Tom DeLay in the cartoon saying "This prosecutor in Texas is POLITICAL", while wearing all these buttons: Fund Fun, Lobbyist Hobbyist, K St., Vote Schiavo, Elect Gerry Mandering for U.S. Congress, and Don't Mess With Taxes.
Came up with a question. Could Tom Delay be making his change of residence so the jurisdiction for his trial would have to be moved?
Scott Ritter has some very good points about the anti-war movement, and they seem especially relevant given Kerry's op-ed.
I recommend reading the whole piece, but here's a snippet...
The Art of War for the anti-war movement
Posted by Scott Ritter at 6:13 PM on March 31, 2006.
-snip--
The anti-war movement, first and foremost, needs to develop a laser-like focus on being nothing more or less than anti-war.
The anti-war movement lacks any notion of strategic thinking, operational planning, or sense of sound tactics. So much energy is wasted because of this failure to centrally plan and organize. As a result, when the anti-war movement does get it right (and on occasion it does), the success is frittered away by a failure to have planned effective follow-up efforts, failure to have implemented any supporting operations, an inability to recognize opportunities as they emerge and a lack of resources to exploit such opportunities if in fact they were recognized to begin with. In short, the anti-war movement is little more than a walk-on squad of high school football players drawing plays in the sand, taking on the National Football League Super Bowl Champions.
In order to even have a chance of prevailing with the American people, the anti-war movement is going to need much more than just good ideals and values. It needs to start thinking like a warrior would, in full recognition that we as a nation are engaged in a life-or-death struggle of competing ideologies with those who promote war as an American value and virtue.
The anti-war movement needs to study the philosophies of those who have mastered the art of conflict, from Caesar to Napoleon, from Sun Tzu to Clausewitz. It needs to study the "enemy" learning to understand the pro-war movement as well as it understands itself. It needs to comprehend the art of campaigning, of waging battles only when necessary, and having the ability to wage a struggle on several fronts simultaneously, synchronizing each struggle so that a synergy is created which maximizes whatever energy is being expended. The anti-war movement needs to understand the pro-war movement's center of gravity, and design measures to defeat this. It needs to grasp the pro-war movement's decision-making cycle, then undertake a comprehensive course of action that learns to pre-empt this cycle, getting 'inside' the pro-war system of making decisions, and thereby forcing the pro-war movement to react to the anti-war agenda, instead of vice versa.
There is an old adage in the military that “intelligence drives operations.” The anti-war movement needs to develop a centralized intelligence operation, not a spy organization, but rather a think-tank that produces sound analysis based upon fact that can be used to empower those who are waging the struggle against war. Far too often the anti-war movement dilutes its effectiveness by either being unable to produce facts during a debate, or when it does, producing facts that are inaccurate, incomplete, or both. The mainstream media treats the anti-war movement as a joke because many times that is exactly what the anti-war movement, through its lack of preparation and grasp of the facts, allows itself to become.
http://alternet.org/blogs/themix/34332/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/4/235135/6247
Daily Kos diary on the backdoor draft. They are 'changing up' the Individual Ready Reserves. Even changing their name to Individual Warriors.
Individual Warriors???
Well, that dovetails nicely with the "You're On Your Own" mentality of the Bush administration.
Personnel Responsibility
Off to work.
They are reading Kerry's NYT Op-Ed at Clinton's office,
(acc/our friend there).
Off to work.
They are reading Kerry's NYT Op-Ed at Clinton's office,
(acc/our friend there). That's Bill.
truth you don't change jurisdiction just by picking up and moving otherwise evry criminal defendant who didn't like his judge would do that. Jurisdiction in criminal offenses in Texas is established by the county, Travis County, Austin, where the offense occurred.
Well the right wing chatterers can't say anymore where are your plans about dealing with Iraq, Democrats? Or Democrats don't have any ideas about Iraq. Its bold, its laying it all out there.
Posted by: Veritas at April 5, 2006 07:52 AM
V...I think that the political solution has to be immediate because the longer they hem and haw, the longer delay there is in getting to the logistics that you discussed.
So one doesn't preclude te other.
Posted by: DiAnne at April 5, 2006 09:47 AM
As one of Hillary's constituents, I want to remind everyone that she wasn't listening when, according to polls, 51% of New York City residents were saying no to this war in March 2003.
The letters she sent her constituents who dared to object to this invasion were insulting, near authoritarian in tone. She knew better. She had all this experience from her husband's administration. Yeah. And if you believe that one, I've got a bridge I can sell you in Falluja.
I was not amused. I'm still not amused.
John Edwards has admitted that he was wrong to support the authorization. Edwards has even refused to blame the President's deception for his vote, choosing instead to take full responsiblity for his own mistake.
John Kerry has offered a plan for ending our unfortunate involvement in Iraq - a plan that is tempered by his direct experience of another unfortunate war.
In comparision, what has Hillary done? Has she taken any position at all? Or is she waiting for her handlers to tell her what her position should be? The people of New York deserve more than an on-the-fence Hillary. I only wish we had a primary here in NY, so that NY Democrats would have the opportunity to express their displeasure in the fashion most appropriate in a democracy.
Matthew Carnicelli
Maria Cantwell is pulling the same stunt. It may not be wise, as the more populous, liberal and urban Seattle contains alot of her constituents and her first election was close.
Let's hope they both wake up and the more and more people question the war.
Good stuff! I'm proud that Senator Kerry has not let up on them. He's called for Rummy's resignation how many times? He's blasted Condi repeatedly. He was right during the campaign when he said Iraq was the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place.
If the Administration had listened to Senator Kerry about how to get Iraqi troops and police trained in a timely manner, we'd have been out of Iraq a year ago. Even after further Bush Administration blunders, John Kerry proposed a plan last October, which probably would have had us out of Iraq by now if it had been followed.