Sanctified

By the way, here is a great list of African-American blogs

http://sisterstalk.com/blackblogs/links.php

Lopez Obrador Urges Civil Resistance in Mexico
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706Z.shtml
Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, the runner-up in Mexico's presidential election, called on a massive crowd Sunday to commit acts of "peaceful civil resistance" to force a vote-by-vote recount. Hundreds of thousands of supporters poured into the Zocalo, chanting: "You are not alone." Some walked for six days or took long bus rides to attend the rally after López Obrador called for a nationwide march on the capital. Mexico City police estimated the crowd at 1.1 million.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003131776_alsharpton17m.html

Reverend Sharpton Brings Congregation To Its Feet

Excerpt:

He was a commanding presence on stage Sunday, often leaning into the microphone and booming out a fast-paced message that had the audience of several hundred repeatedly on its feet. He broke into inspirational song toward the end, recapping parts of his colorful past — growing up in a Brooklyn housing project, becoming a child preacher, touring with soul singer James Brown, and surviving lawsuits and an assassination attempt.

Although he's raced through Seattle several times before, he said, this was his first substantial visit. "I like it a lot," he said, mentioning he was impressed with black-community leaders and the people he'd met walking down Martin Luther King Jr. Way and along the waterfront. There are challenges here, too, he added, including a "budding gang problem."

Sharpton took jabs at Bush in the Sunday church service and made reference to the exploding Middle East violence. After the service, he said Israel has the right to protect itself but needs to be careful "not to overreact."

"The irony is that George Bush does not have the moral authority to appeal for peace after his flawed invasion in the same region," Sharpton said.

Several Mount Zion churchgoers said they thought Sharpton's sermon was the best they'd heard in a while.

"It's one thing seeing him on TV, but it's great to see him in person. I thought he was terrific," said Mamie Smith, a member of the Mount Zion congregation for more than 60 years. "I liked his comments on Adam Clayton Powell and Jesse Jackson: Keep the faith, baby, and keep hope alive."

A really great article: Black Preachers Take A Stand
http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=5decd75421cd1b3a91e031b36e0f77ec

Good report Dio.

Bro, Charles in Colorado

Dianne,

Thanks for sharing the experience. I know that the media likes to portray clips of Al Sharpton as being of the loony side, but he's very inpiring and impressive.

I found Jessie Jackson to be equally as inspiring.

sparrow -

I loved your freeway blogging adventure!

All of you fasters are amazing and inspirational to us all. I've been reading back and catching up and just reading it all with such pride. We have so many good people here!

As for my plans to challenge my conservative in-laws to watch and listen to something other than fox and rush, we ended up spending the whole time dealing with a family medical emergency, so my plans were put on the back burner. But all is well with the family member.

Maybe next time .....

Thanks for the report, DiAnne.

Al Sharpton impresses me. He knows he's a political figure that intimidates, and he is pretty good at avoiding the political arguments those on the right try to entice him into. I have to laugh when they start on him and he doesn't play into it....he tap dances a minute, then lets loose with a zinger. He's good. He's got his own unique style, but he is a force to be reckoned with and the right knows it. They'll be calling him luney or insincere right to his face, and he'll scoot around their accusations and lambast them with the truth. Kind of like Muhammad Ali - "Float like a butterfly - sting like a bee."

I visited an African American gospel church back home...they really get down and do they ever move! It was fun!

THE MEDIA IS HELPING BUSH SCARE THE POPULACE
Will Bunch, Attytood
A plea to newsmakers: Stop falling for the Bush administration's attempts at fear-mongering rather than governing.
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/38980/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/bush-on-the-world-stage-_b_25066.html
Bush on the World Stage: While Events Heat Up, the President Hams it Up

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html
From a 2005 article.... I remember reading this before, but I'd forgotten the second paragraph of this quote....

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

You fasters sure have spoken to me these past few days.

We take far too much for granted.

Thanks for literally "putting your money where your mouth is".

And Suz, we are SO PROUD of you going to those churches with your sign, and painting your rocks for all to see!!!!

You guys make me want to do more.

Lopez Obrador Urges Civil Resistance in Mexico
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706Z.shtml
Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, the runner-up in Mexico's presidential election, called on a massive crowd Sunday to commit acts of "peaceful civil resistance" to force a vote-by-vote recount. Hundreds of thousands of supporters poured into the Zocalo, chanting: "You are not alone." Some walked for six days or took long bus rides to attend the rally after López Obrador called for a nationwide march on the capital. Mexico City police estimated the crowd at 1.1 million.

{{{The Mexican voters - and Obrador supporters who are demonstrating - demanding a recount are an inspiration...!}}}

Video coverage of "the sh-t heard 'round the world".

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/07/17/newt1.bush.blair.video2.jpg

William Rivers Pitt | Cheerleading the Apocalypse
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706J.shtml
"The fighting between Israel and Lebanon over the course of the last few days presents perhaps the most dangerous moment since the Cuban Missile Crisis. The leadership of Israel and Hezbollah spend the blood of innocents to prove how very tough they are, and the lords of unreason hold sway over all. Syria trembles on the edge of significant involvement, with Iran waiting in the wings," writes William Rivers Pitt.
{{{Be sure to read to the end for a satirical... um, well..., maybe chuckle?}}}

Blowing the Whistle on Diebold
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706P.shtml
On July 13, the Pensacola, Florida-based law firm of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. filed a "qui tam" lawsuit in US District Court, alleging that Diebold and other electronic voting machine companies fraudulently represented to state election boards and the federal government that their products were "unhackable."

Tom Engelhardt | The Force Is Not With Them
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706O.shtml
"The Bush administration came to power as a fundamentalist regime; and here I'm not referring to the Christian fundamentalist faith of our President," writes Tom Engelhardt. "Bush's top officials may not have agreed among themselves on whether End Time would arrive, or even on the domestic social issues of most concern to the Christian religious right in this country, but they were all linked by a singular belief in the efficacy of force."

The New York Times | Abu Ghraib Rewarded
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706N.shtml
"William Haynes II, the Pentagon’s general counsel, has been closely involved in shaping some of the Bush administration’s most legally and morally objectionable policies, notably on the use of torture. The last thing he is suited to be is a federal judge, but that is just what President Bush wants to make him," writes the New York Times Editorial Board.

Corruption Cited in Iraq's Oil Industry
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706M.shtml
US Comptroller General David M. Walker told Congress last week that "massive corruption" and "a lot of theft going on" in Iraq's government-controlled oil industry is hampering the country's ability to govern itself.

Tom Engelhardt | The Force Is Not With Them
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706O.shtml

Posted by: NonnyO at July 17, 2006 02:54 PM

Eery.

Posted by: ralpheh at July 16, 2006 06:38 PM

Redeemer Presbyterian Church? That's a familiar name to me.

When I went to Columbia University, that's where my "friends" at CCC and other campus ministries spent their nights and weekends. (BTW, the CCC at Columbia used to be called KCCC, K for Korean, but so many non-Korean Asians were converted that the K had to be dropped.)

And if Coulter attended that place, I would've been among the first to know. Coulter did NOT attend the place, at least during my college years (mid-1990s).

Posted by: Ally McLesbian at July 16, 2006 11:16 PM
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I think both Coulter's and George Bush's pandering to the religious right is fraudulent, convenient and cynical. Bush only found religion very late in life - around age 40, supposedly - when his business and political life was going nowhere (Bush had run for Congress and lost and his oil company had gone bankrupt).

As far as I know neither Bush nor Cheney regularly attend church. I thought I had heard that Bush's not attending church was explained by the lame excuse that it would cause too much of a security concern etc...

In the Pitt article on TruthOut, there is this bit about those who welcome recent events in the middle east, as they believe they are part of Biblical prophesy. My mom even started in on this and I told her those are not meant to be "self-fulfilling" prophesies that people purposely make happen, because that is insane!

Excerpt (from Cheerleading the Apocalypse - cited just above by NonnyO):

The fundamentalist far-right branch of Christianity that
has established itself as the most powerful force in electoral
politics is heeded by this administration because they owe their
tenure to these people.

A lot of them are thrilled by what is happening in the Middle
East. An internet forum called "Rapture Ready" offers some insight into that particular breed of right-wing Christian who cannot wait for the Apocalypse. "Gosh!!!" writes one poster, "Here we are making plans to move to the east coast and we might not even have to move after all. I say, come quickly Lord!!!"

"Israel is not a land of un-walled villages so this is probably a
war that will result in that," writes another poster. "Then Gog and Magog will come. But I believe we could be raptured before. I believe before Damascus is destroyed God may rescue His children out of there." Yet another poster writes, "In another thread, someone brought up the fact that the kidnapping of the first Israeli soldier that started this whole thing was on June 25th, and if you count from that day to August 3rd ... it is
EXACTLY 40 days!!!!! I find that to be a HUGE coincidence."

--I am still fasting. I had a small cup of Kir at Bastille Day (big mistake) so napped then finally had some watermelon at end of day 3. This is day 4 then will probably stop, have learned alot. For me, I mostly did alot of thinking and refocussing. It was very good timing for seeing Sharpton. I really feel he is in the Civil Rights Social Justice tradition of the 1960s, in direct lineage. That is the direction to go after Katrina, wars based on lies, cuts to HeadStart etc. A teacher today showed me her "Bush Embarrassmints" and her "Indictmints" - I thought it was clever but apparently some others she showed looked at her like the was an antisocial, unpatriotic wierdo.

Ralpheh
I think Bush only attends church for PR stunts.

NonnyO
Great pics here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1648224
Thanks for not forgetting the stolen Mexican election.
Also plan to go to BC & get a feel for how people feel about Harper. This hemisphere seems to be going to pot. I'm sure deals are being struck about soft wood, immigrants etc.

Some news from an Intern in Israel who is a Quaker:

I'm safe - we'll just get that out of the way.

On top of the many things that keep me busy
of late, I need to accost the Ministry of interior this week or go toJordan. I'm scared, either way. Everyone has different advice - go toTel Aviv, to Jerusalem and force my way in, to Cyprus, to Jordan, toDubai... An alternate suggestion - what if I just let my visa expire and don't leave Bethlehem? Well, then whenever I do leave I'll be told I can never return.

My mother had recently arrived when I last wrote. She left this morning at 4:30 am. I accompanied her through the checkpoint to wait for the shared taxi to the airport. I'd never been through the checkpoint quite that early. There was already a huge line of
workers waiting until the checkpoint would be opened and they could,hopefully, be allowed through with their permits. The line was huge,wrapped down the side of the wall and on into the street. I knew thishappened, I'd just never been there to see it. People sleeping on theground against the wall, in the dark, waiting to wait and go to work.The main gate was opened specially so my mother and I could passthrough. When I came back thirty minutes later the line had tripled inlength. There would be another two and a half hours before anyone was
let through.

Two nights ago we went to see film in the Jerusalem film festival.
Coming back at midnight I saw a good 20 detainees sitting in front ofthe old checkpoint, facing the wall. I wasn't able to tell my motherfast enough for her to see as well.

I went to Bil'in on Friday and took my mother. The violence from themilitary was pretty standard. Someone threw a very large rock at theunhelmeted head of a Druze commander early on and that started thingsoff. I'm really not sure how much to say about what happened. There wasa lot of tear gas, and a lot of sound bombs. Naji and I were surprisedthat a soldier put his gun through an old man's drum. My mother was surprised to see the soldiers violence towards small children, whereas we took this as unremarkable and something to be expected.

The news is different. Instead of people talking about how many were killed today in Gaza we've shifted to how many have been killed in Lebanon, how many in Haifa, the shooting down of an F-16... Basem and I discussed our continuing and growing feeling of safety in Bethlehem. Nassar has taken to being amazed by President Bush's statements. I'm busier being disgusted with the G8. Restraint, but not a ceasefire?
That says what, exactly? Please, keep the massacres to a minimum or we might have to care.

One day of Arabic lessons impressed on me that I really must find someone in Bethlehem rather than on the other side of the checkpoint. Roger Waters signed the Wall on the inside of the Bethlehem checkpoint. I prefer the "will open soon" on the inside of the old gate.

If I don't wrap this up now it'll be weeks before I'm writing emails again. It's my birthday soon. I'm putting plants in my windowsills and pictures on the walls at home. I'm taking more pictures lately, I'm writing.

hallas, I must go
salamat

Sarah

And finally: A microphone picked up President Bush’s private conversations with other world leaders at the G8 summit. Bush on Putin’s flight home: “You eight hours? Me too. Russia’s a big country and you’re a big country. … Russia’s big and so is China.” Bush on Blair’s departure: “Yo Blair, what’re you doing? Are you leaving?” “Bush also remarked that some of the speakers at the meeting had the tendency to talk too long.”

(Center for American Progress)

This is a transcript from this morning. I like the part about Yo, Blair: you got a big one and I got a big one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13901534/

BUSH ACTING LIKE A FOOL AGAIN (swearing into open mics):

What do you think of the president's cussing in this case?

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/bush-curses-hezbollahs-actions-at-g-8/20060717081909990004?cid=2449

His frustration is understandable 70%
He should've been more careful 30%
Total Votes: 475,147

Note on Poll Results

What do you think of the U.S.'s handling of the current Mideast crisis?

Poor job 38%
Good job 31%
Fair job 22%
I haven't followed the response 9%

Total Votes: 457,088

Note on Poll Results

The news networks seem to be showing a great deal of file footage that seem to be geared at stirring up a great deal of fear. Or is it just me?

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at July 17, 2006 06:06 PM

...it ain't you.

It's a sensational nation!

Fib at eleven.

Lieberman in trouble:

(from Dump Joe website)

Michael Ware, Time Magazine's Baghdad Bureau Chief on Lieberman:

"I and some other journalists had lunch with Senator Joe Lieberman the other day and we listened to him talking about Iraq. Either Senator Lieberman is so divorced from reality that he's completely lost the plot or he knows he's spinning a line. Because one of my colleagues turned to me in the middle of this lunch and said he's not talking about any country I've ever been to and yet he was talking about Iraq, the very country where we were sitting."

Holy Joe, Lying and Faking???

Fakin' It
Liberal Oasis uncovers, and the official blog confirms, that Joe Lieberman is using a fake Ned Lamont bumper sticker in ads in order to attack Lamont's campaign. Here's a handy comparison:

picture

And it's not like this fake sticker is meant as a joke, or is tangential to the charges in the ad itself. No, the ad - which was played to a national audience in its entirety on the C-SPAN feed of Thursday's debate - centers its charges almost entirely around this entirely fictitious bumper sticker. Watch the video on YouTube (via Spazeboy).

Again. The Lieberman campaign hired someone to create an immaculate fake of a Ned Lamont bumper sticker, in an obvious attempt to deceive voters. They even put a fake URL on it to make it look official. They then produced an attack ad whose charges were based on this fake bumper sticker. And they've been running the ad like crazy ever since. (Although, tellingly, it's not up on Joe's website).

Yet another example of "principled" Senator Joseph Lieberman in action.

Suz
Yes it was so cool about the freeway blogging on rocks!
If you didn't get a chance, take photos!!!

From the previous thread:

Well Ally, now I am certainly curious about your words about Ann Coulter being trans.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at July 17, 2006 12:42 AM

Truth, it's not been definitely proven, but there are a few links worth looking at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ann_Coulter/Archive_4#Supposed_evidence_Ann_may_have_been_born_intersexual
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2005/03/mann-coulter.html
http://journals.aol.com/richardbk8/TheSentryNewsDigest/entries/811

Besides, right-wing politics is surprisingly common in the circles of transgender "women," and if Ann were trans, she'd be just another of them. I've learned the far right notions that healthcare is not a right, and that a national sales tax must replace the income tax, from the transwomen's circles.

Some say that Coulter must be nailed for what she is - a mean-spirited demagogue, not a tranny - and that all this talk about Coulter's supposed gender is pointless. But I feel that exposing Coulter as a tranny further highlights his/her hypocrisy. I've had enough of the right-wing selling out in the transwomen and gay men's circles.

Can someone please explain why the French and Italians stuck in Lebanon are being expeditiously evacuated by their country and yet ABC evening news reports that only 56 of 25,000 Americans in Lebanon have been evacuated. Lets all pray for their safety, a close friend's uncle is stuck there, but it sure is starting to sound like another Katrina evacuation.

Ok, so I'm not fasting today. But since I was in AA, I went to paint the "mother of all rocks" since the Art fair is coming up in two days and hopefully more masses will see it. It's a HUGE rock, as I'm sure madame and oncall probably remember.

It's essentially the size of a spaceship. I had enough surface area to paint 5 sides. Though I still couldn't reach the top of it.

Below is the description of what I wrote...

Side one facing the road best said, "Support our Troops. END the Iraq Occupation"

Side two facing the main road, but with a smaller surface area said, "Bush" up high. Then I drew a picture of "Bush as the pinnochio president" with the REALLY LONG NOSE... and in a bubble coming out of his mouth was the words, "WMD, 9-11, Terra' alert"... And then below the picture with those words I placed the word "speak." So essentially "Bush Speak" frames the picture.

Side three facing the main road says, "Millionaires (big red heart) WAR"

Next side which faced a lesser used road said, "Had Enough?"

And on the last side with the smaller surface area and facing the main side street, I drew a huge peace sign.

It took approximately four hours to get the whole rock painted. And I got so light headed I couldn't remember how to spell speak! I was glad I had decided this morning to eat today so I would have the energy to do this. As it is, I think there's not a muscle in my body that isn't in misery right now.

I did take pictures, but I probably won't be able to get them developed right away to post here. And I was pleased to see people actually walked up to the rock to view all of it all the way around.

AA is pretty progressive, but it also has a huge Republican base too that I didn't know about until I worked on the minimum wage campaign last year.

In the meantime, I saw my rock that said, "Blessed are the Peace Makers" was still intact. (Yay!)

So that's about it.

Here is a great clip from the Colbert Report on the Lieberman/Lamont primary and "The Kiss".

http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=2094

It is curious to see Bush grab Lieberman's head as Bush enters Congress (at a state of the union speech?) and pull him close... almost bizarre and rude.

Suz
Even if it's a week from now - would love to see them on here!
Maybe on one of our "Art" Saturdays, with your description!
I love stuff like this. Believe me, people do notice.

Then I went back to the Catholic church and I had missed their next entrance of worshippers, so I took myself to the next big rock in the next small town.

On that rock, I painted, "Blessed are the Peacemakers" and then within the yellow ribbons I had drawn with markers, I wrote, "Bring 'em HOME NOW!" (Of course if it rains, those markers will run right off! lol...but they did look nice for now.)

The next rock I drove to to paint, I opted to leave alone. How could I remove, "In memory of Ben" So that one is there.

The last big rock that I thought existed between two other towns I couldn't find. They either moved it or I was wrong to think it existed.

So that's my excitement for the day.

Posted by: Suz at July 16, 2006 02:22 PM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

I have submitted the Iraq Withdrawal Resolution (the one that passed in Kalamazoo county Dem Party, Michigan) to several Democrats in Washtenaw County. I received this response from one of the Washtenaw Dem Officers:

Steve, I think what this person is suggesting is that we adopt a resolution to this effect at our County Convention for forwarding to the State Party's Resolution Committee. As a veteran I fully endorse these proposals and if noone else can be found I would willingly introduce them at the pre-convention resolutions committee meeting. However, I often feel that as chair I should refrain from this. Let me know if you can't find somone. Also, as to Sat. exec committee meeting I would ask that you make an effort to be there even if you expect to be late. You will need to explain changes and rationales for the changes to the by laws. -graham

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Gray"
To: "Flolebus@aol.com"
CC: "David M. Shindell" , "graham teall"
Subject: Re: Iraq resolutions - Passed in Kalamazoo County Dems, proposed in Calhoun Co
Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2006 14:59:53 -0400

Rolf,

I rec'd your phone message earlier and I'm sorry I wasn't able to get back to you. We don't really have a good structure for for handling resolutions under our current by-laws so I wan't to check with party leadership here about the best way to handle this. I would think at the very least we'd need a WCDP member to introduce this (which I assume you aren't). I will check with leadership here and get back with you.

Steve

On 7/7/06, Flolebus@aol.com wrote:
Can you get this done in Washtenaw and then take it to the State party convention?

Posted by: Ira at July 17, 2006 06:53 PM

Well, that's what tax cut does, unfortunately. When one calls for a tax cut and a smaller government, that's what he/she gets - to a point where the government cannot perform essential functions.

This is an observation I made at the Marine base I work at, and posted to my blog. I wanted to crosspost here, since I am touching on the incompetence of W as commander-in-chief (which we all care about) and the aftermath of the Korean War, where these Marines sacrificed their lives (my specialty).

-----------------------------------------------

My work on a Marines installation takes me to various memorials to the troops who gave their lives for the country. This includes a conference room, which memorializes two Marines from the American heartland who gave their lives during the Korean War.

These men grew up during very difficult times; the Great Depression was during their childhood, and as they entered their teens, World War II demanded further sacrifices. And when yet another conflict - this time, in a faraway land they probably had never heard of - occurred, they bravely volunteered to serve. When their battle groups were under heavy enemy attack, they blocked an enemy grenade, or otherwise gave their lives, to protect the rest of the group, and to contribute to winning the battle.

The Korean War was a textbook example on why the civilian President, as Commander-in-Chief, has to be the voice of reason. First, Harry Truman understood the gravity of the situation enough to have a doctrine of containing the communist influence, well before war broke out in Korea. Then, he used diplomacy to get the United Nations to send a multinational force to quell the conflict - sixteen nations, including the United States, fought alongside the South Korean forces. When General Douglas MacArthur wanted to fight an all-out war, not only against North Korea but also against China, USSR, and all other communist nations, Truman sacked him, wisely deciding that wearing the communist camp out through containment was a much safer option than nuclear annihilation of the entire world. (However, South Korean conservatives, including then-President Syngman Rhee, have never forgiven Truman - and the Democrats - for this decision.)

Fast forward to today, with W as Commander-in-Chief. I am always reminded of that as I see W's photo everywhere, captioned the "Honorable" George W. Bush. Unfortunately, there is nothing honorable about W and his war conduct. Rather than giving the voice of reason to the military, he has been even more of a madman than the military commanders, diverting American war efforts from the real enemy, the Taliban in Afghanistan, to a personal/oil industry pet project, Iraq. He pretends to be the ultimate authority in military affairs, even though his Vietnam-era military service details are sketchy at best. And the worst of it is, he is using tools like Fox News to brainwash the soldiers, so that they think they are fighting a noble war in Iraq, Iran, Syria, and elsewhere, when in fact they aren't. And the level of brainwashing is absolutely scary; combined with the false perception that Republicans are more pro-military and the doctrines of the Christian fundamentalists, the soldiers are worshipping W like the newest Christian prophet that he pretends to be, ready to go on more and more Crusades.

Back to the two Marines who gave their lives in Korea, I look at them and see two wasted lives. The US involvement in South Korea, lasting through today, has not always been a positive influence. South Korean democratic institutions, and its very sovereignty, have been hampered by excessive US meddling, especially during the Republican administrations (the worst were in the Richard Nixon - Park Chung Hee era and the Ronald Reagan - Chun Doo Hwan era). The relationship between the two nations have benefited only the right wing of the two, not everyone; Korea has always been a pet project of American conservatives like Sam Brownback and the Concerned Women for America, and it's been the right-wingers in South Korea who want continued high levels of US military presence, against the wishes of the people of South Korea - and both the left and the right of the United States. (This includes moving the US Army command in Seoul to a location an hour to the south, a project I may be involved in in the future.) The students, the labor, and other activists, including everyday civilians, have suffered immensely on both sides as a result of this relationship, particularly in 1980 and in 1983, and this must change. Unfortunately, the current free trade talks between the two countries, the biggest such agreement for the US since NAFTA, will only further strengthen the hands of the right wingers, and put the students, labor, and other activists further into the hole.

Suz -

YOU ROCK!!!!!

(sorry - that was bad, I know).

Can not wait to see the pics!!

Posted by: monkey at July 17, 2006 06:25 PM

Silly me.

I was sitting there this evening while eating dinner, watching PBS and Jim Lehrer's New Hour. They had a speaker from Israel on, presenting their side of the present conflict between the Hezbollah and Israel, and a speaker on from Syria, and it was interesting and informative.

Then they had Judy Woodruff come on and interview two Americans with differing viewpoints on the same subject. One of those men looked really fake, and shallow. Period. Before he even spoke, I felt he was a paid shill. He said through his perfect teeth (he could talk while smiling realllly big) that this conflict doesn't mean there is a less stable Middle East, yadda yadda. The guy was freakin' acting.

It dawned on me that I am being "taught" by PAID professionals through the media.

Yes, I knew it before. But it really smacked me today. Some of these talking heads don't even BELIEVE what they are saying. They are being PAID to say it.

O.M.G.

Watch the video of Bush and the swearing incident. He doesn't even have any table manners, the clod. What the hell did Laura ever see in this loser?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/07/17/ezra-has-a-point-on-bush-and-his-remark-about-syria/

If what the Syrian Ambassador to the United States said tonight on PBS's News Hour with Jim Lehrer is true, Americans haven't been told the entire truth about the present conflict between Hezbollah and Israel.

Israeli, Syrian Ambassadors Speak Out on the Middle East

Israeli Ambassador to the United States Daniel Ayalon and Syrian Ambassador to the United States Imad Moustapha discuss the escalation of violence in the Middle East and the possibilities of a cease-fire.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec06/ambassadors_07-17.html

Posted by: Carol at July 17, 2006 08:15 PM

Funny you should ask. She really seems to be a positive, classy lady. Baffling.

Dianne,

It ain't art by any stretch of the imagination...but thank you.

Posted by: ralpheh at July 17, 2006 07:33 PM

I think AA already passed an out of Iraq resolution. Please pm me with more detail and information in the forum.

Posted by: Carol at July 17, 2006 07:37 PM

Thanks Carol. And here I thought I was all mush!

I want to touch base on one last thing before I collapse for the night.

I have to admit to lots of confusion and unsure feelings about the situation in Israel and Lebenon, etc...I was on a list which I felt was getting progressively more anti-semetic and they forwarded to me a PDA announcement against Israel. Since then, I've been even more confused about how to handle what was happening there.

So when I wasn't painting today, I also went to a few places, like a Jewish Temple and a Christian church (that I knew had had missions in Israel). And I asked them some questions. Both sides 'educated me' on what Israel has been facing that I haven't been hearing on the news. And both sides said that Hezbolah initiated a war with the silent support of other Islamic nations.

One place informed me that Hezbolah has many seats in the Lebanese gov't. I didn't know this. And I heard on Ed Schultz that most of Lebanon are Shiites who would support Hezbolah over their own gov't. That was another thing I didn't know. Hense, the long-and-short of it is that Hezbolah is a part of the Lebanese gov't which means they intentionally entered a soveriegn land and kidnapped soldiers. They intend to pass these soldiers to another country. (Maybe Syria maybe Iran) But they described the borders to me to show me how this was happening.

Now, they went over the historical events in Israel that I'm not going to go into in depth. However, one person reminded me that a long time ago, ( 85), 3 Israelites were kidnapped. Israel relased over 1150 militants in exchange for their kidnapped citizens. Only ONE came back alive. YET--Israel had kept their word and had released all of those militants who probably have returned to the same path of destroying Israel.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-07-06-israel-no-deals_x.htm

This is why Israel will not negotiate with Hezbolah for these peoples' safe return.

Furthermore, I was told (and Ed Schultz said it too) that a week ago Israel dropped leaflets into the city to warn them to leave before Israel went in. I learned that Israel ALWAYS does this because they know the world's eye's are upon them. So they encourage everyone to get out so that there will not be civilian deaths. How many countries do that?

At anyrate, after listening and going to different places, I've decided to take my name off the PDA list and that other email list.

I'm not a hawk but I'm not a complete dove either. But now I feel more informed about the choice I'm making and the position I'm taking.

Suz,

I too have been confused, and trying to sort my feelings on the present conflict.

I have been told before to always listen to both sides of every argument, that there might be shreds of truth in each argument.

I was shocked at what the Syrian ambassador said tonight on PBS. It is all in the transcript at the URL I posted above.

I am not taking sides, but it was eye opening for me.

Suz, thanks for the updates and your input.

I don't expect a Christian mission to Israel to be the most unbiased of sources. However, I do know that on the Muslim side, there are too many barbaric terrorists out there to count. In fact, I'm probably the least pro-Muslim member of the DCP, because I'm fed up with Sharia law, honor killings, and other evil stories coming out of that part of the world.

I am not taking sides, and maybe never will. This is a religiously motivated conflict, has always been, will always be. And as long as the religious doctrines call for "conversion or death," the conflict will not stop.

To clarify my position:

We can always go on and on arguing that Islam is a religion of peace, and that honor killings are not part of the Islamic belief systems. However, the reality is that honor killings ARE almost exclusively an Islamic phenomenon. The reality is that Sharia laws are being rolled out in more Muslim regions. And the reality is that martyrdom brings you to heaven with 72 maidens. The practice of religion has been tainted with violence and barbarism, and I have to take that into account. (Of course, radical Christianity in the United States is getting very close too.)

It is also worth noting that even as the progressive movement steadfastly defends the Muslim side in the Israeli conflicts, the fact is that someone like me will have far better luck in Israel than in any of the surrounding Islamic nations. Israel may be cracking down hard on the Palestinians (and I strongly disapprove of that), but Israel also takes asylum requests from LGBT Palestinians who are in danger in their own Muslim territories. And even outside the Palestine, the fact remains that NOT a single Muslim nation is LGBT-friendly.

These are factors that I must take into account when discussing any Judeo-Muslim or Christo-Muslim conflicts. Of course, I do not approve of Israel's use of excessive force, nor the special favors it receives from American neocons. But the Muslim world is NOT a friend of progressives either.

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at July 17, 2006 08:53 PM

Israel would claim any prisoners are militants who are involved in the "infitada".

All of this is beyond our immagination. They lived for years with the threat of war from all five of their neighboring countries. Their neighbors want their annialation. Israel may be able to 'pack a punch' with a war, but nobody can easily stand up against a whole regime who wants to kill your citizens. They put explosives on women to make them look pregnant and then send them into civilian places to explode and kill others.

Also, as Ed Schultz pointed out, Israel has given them everything they wanted. They left Gaza. They left the northerm part of Israel where the Lebanese and Hezbolah were tossing in bombs.

What I understand from my conversations today (notice I went to two religious sects for answers hoping to get clarity on this!) is that before Hezbolah had rocks and grenades. Then they had short distance missiles. Now they have LONG DISTANCE missiles that can reach farther than ever before! Who is supplying them?

Syria?
Lebanon?
Iran?

Who? Because these long range missiles make a world of difference.

Ally,

Before today, I thought I was a dove.

Now I'm not sure.

Suz, Truth Shall Prevail
I've been trying to make sense of the situation in the middle east for a long time. I would have to join those not taking sides but hoping that an agreement can be reached. I would like to see a Palestinian state and question the number of expansions of Israel over time, but the main priority is peace.

Jimmy Carter wrote one of the most insightful books on the Middle East and I do believe he worked very hard on the crisis, way back when. On 9/11, my first reaction was to go to the library and get more books but they only made me more confused. To get more balance, it might be instructive to not only go to a Christian church and to a Jewish synagogue, but to a Muslim mosque. We have one here, so maybe I'll do that. I did it after 9/11 and in fact we protected it, as someone tried to destroy it.

It's as though everyone has a legitimate side, in their own mind. Someone who may think Israel reacted disproportionately would not necessarily be anti-Semitic. There is alot of anti-Semitism or maybe more properly anti-Zionism in the middle east. Then there are Israeli "hardliners" who to me seem like neocons, and in fact are not very popular with ordinary Israelis (sound like our situation?) I also don't think it's unusual to have radical groups with seats in government in the middle east or in any coalition government. Certain governments may label certain organizations terrorist organizations and refuse to negotiate or communicate with them and others may see it differently. That's like a complete difference in perception and "framing."

It's necessary to realize that the issues creating most of the problems go back decades, and some, centures. Probably the biggest mistake our government has made is not understanding it in more depth before getting involved. Publicly linking 9/11 with Iraq when this would only work partially for domestic consumption is one example.

My conclusion so far is that I would never take a "side" at this point - there are extremists on all sides and many innocent civilians stuck in the middle. Israel may agree to cease-fire without insisting Hezbollah be completely dismantled. That looks like our best hope at this time. It'll be hard for all of this to die down though, as Israel and Lebanon were fighting hard when my son was a baby. There will be lingering resentments for a long time, as in Iraq and other conflicted areas. People are also given false information, on all sides, from Fox News to its equivalents in the middle east.

I was sent a couple of very interesting articles in the last two days that got me thinking:

- In a surprising about face, Sunnis in Iraq want us NOT to get out of of Iraq.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/17/world/middleeast/17sunnis.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin
(Maybe it's not so surprising and consider how many countries have Shiite majorities, often poor. Saddam was a Sunni and his party was taken out of power but now the Shiites are able to rise up, plus they can have linkages with those in Iran, Syria etc. & now this appears to tie in even to Hezbollah in Lebanon.)

- Afghanistan Is No One's WAR
http://www.canadawebpages.com/pc-editorial.asp?Key=2360&editorType=article&editorPrimeKeyword=chuckman&editorLink=

Posted by: Suz at July 17, 2006 09:11 PM

Suz, I was never a dove (though I'm not exactly a hawk either).

In fact, the so-called "doves" have declared war on me, for disturbing the "sacred" liberal notion that nonwhites cannot possibly be hatemongers themselves. (But then, you saw me discuss this with DiAnne in one of the recent threads.) It's this dangerously "sacred" notion that keeps the progressives supporting the Muslim world at all costs, whether they deserve it or not. It's also this "sacred" notion that's keeping my cry for help unheard in the white LGBT communities, as I battle the deep-rooted homophobia of ethnic communities.

As we were driving home yesterday from Pennsylvania, deep in the heart of the republican center of the state, near Tyrone, we passed a set of billboards.

I was heartened to see the one that said in huge letters:

TRY PEACE

Jesus, Gandhi, and Buddha did....

(I missed the rest because we were going too fast).

I wish the middle east would just try peace. In the eternal words of Rodney King:

"Why can't we all just get along?"

In the eternal words of Rodney King: "Why can't we all just get along?"

Posted by: Carol at July 17, 2006 09:23 PM

Good question. And if my understanding of the Quran is correct, it also tells the believer to treat Christians and Jews as brothers under the common faith of God.

Of course, the Muslim radicals (in fact, all of the Judeo-Christo-Muslim radicals) have forgotten that part, and only memorized the "convert or kill" part.

Here's a little hope from the Dixie Chicks:

Sunday morning, I heard the preacher say
Thou shall not kill
I don't wanna, hear nothin' else, about killin'
And that it's God's will

Cuz our children are watching us
They put their trust in us
They're gonna be like us
So let's learn from our history
And do it differently

CHORUS:
I hope
For more love, more joy and laughter
I hope
We'll have more than we'll ever need
I hope
We'll have more happy ever afters
I hope
We can all live more fearlessly
And we can lose all the pain and misery
I hope, I hope

Oh Rosie, her man he gets too rough
And all she can say, is he's a good man
He don't mean no harm
He was just brought up that way

But our children are watching us
They put their trust in us
They're gonna be like us
It's okay for us to disagree
We can work it out lovingly

For I hope
For more love, more joy and laughter
I hope
You'll have more than you'll ever need
I hope
You'll have more happy ever afters
I hope
And you can all live more fearlessly
And you can lose all your pain and misery
I hope, I hope

There must be a way to change what's going on
No, I don't have all the answers

I hope
For more love, more joy and laughter
I hope
you'll have more than you'll ever need
I hope
There'll be more happy ever afters
I hope
We can all live more fearlessly
And we can lose all the pain and misery
I hope, I hope

I hope
I hope
I hope

So I went to http://www.juancole.com, which I often do (next will be Robert Fisk, who should still be living in Lebanon).

Gleanings:

Olmert's conditions (for Israel ceasing hostilities):

1. The return of two captured Israeli soldiers held by Hizbullah
2. A withdrawal of Hizbullah to the Litani River, 30 mi. or so north of the Israeli border deeper into Lebanon.
3. Cessation of rocket attacks on Israel

Juan says:
It is worth noting that if this is what Israel wants, two of the three could have been gotten without reducing the entire country of Lebanon to rubble. They could have traded 3 Hizbullah members in their custody for the 2 Israeli soldiers. And, if they hadn't gone wild bombing everything in sight it is unlikely Hizbullah would have shelled them on this scale in the first place.

As for the demand that Hizbullah withdraw (presumably this means its paramilitary fighters) to the Litani, that talking point will inspire the profoundest fear in the Lebanese that Israel is essentially attempting to move its border north and make the Litany the new border, thus staking a clear claim on the waters of the river, which Israelis have coveted since 1948. It is a non-starter politically, though whether it can be attained with violence is yet to be seen.

Then he addresses Nusrallah of Hezbollah:

He said in an eerily calm and calculating voice that he had aimed his rockets only at military targets, not at Israeli settlements "in Occupied northern Palestine" (i.e. Israel). In contrast, he said, the Israeli military had from the beginning targeted civilians. (In fact, Nasrallah's katyushas are impossible to aim with any precision and in loosing them on Israel, he inevitably killed and wounded civilians; likewise in Haifa. His opening statement is a self-serving lie.)

He complained at length about Israeli airstrikes against civilian targets. He linked hitting the Israeli warship to Israel's airstrikes on Baalbak [where they hit a Husayniyah or Shiite mourning center].

He added,
"We arose to strike at the city of Haifa, and we know the importance and grave significance of this city. Had we targeted with our missiles the chemical and petrochemical factories, an enormous catastrophe would have ensued for the inhabitants of that area. But we deliberately avoided those factories, which were in the sites of our missiles, since we were eager not to push things toward the unknown and were eager that this weapon be a weapon not of revenge but of defense . . . a weapon that would return the crazies in the Olmert government to a modicum of reason and save them from a grandiosity complex, or, I might say, the stupidity whereby they distinguish themselves . . . But because we set those targets aside this time does not mean that we we always adopt this position. At any point where we consider that we are involved in defending our nation and our people and our families, we will resort to all means we can in pursuit of that defense . . . "
(-my translation)

He also denied that there were any Iranian Revolutionary Guards in Lebanon or that he had had Iranian help. He said people were always putting down the Arabs and saying they could not accomplish anything, but, he said, look at the Israeli warship in flames. That was an Arab accomplishment.

Uh, wouldn't an Arab accomplishment be more like, oh, inventing something or building up something nice? Destroying things and killing people is not an accomplishment.

I watched in horror as this maniacal speech unfolded in which Nasrallah actually threatened the Israelis with releasing chemical gas from local factories on civilians in Haifa. Despite fighting them for all those years, he clearly does not understand the Israelis' psyche or the trauma of the Holocaust. A threat like that. The Israelis don't like being caught in a quagmire any more than the next person, which is why Nasrallah could get them to leave southern Lebanon. But his victory appears to have given him megalomania, and he has now gone too far.

Hizbullah's attacks on Israeli civilians are war crimes. The killing of the civilians in Haifa at the train station was a war crime. And threatening to release chemicals from factories on civilian populations is probably a war crime in itself, much less the doing of it.

Obviously, I do not accept that Hizbullah's actions justify the wholesale indiscriminate destruction and slaughter in which the Israelis have been engaged against the Lebanese in general. But they do have every right to defend themselves against Nasrallah and his mad bombers.

Phalange leader Karim Pakradouni says that Israel might well destroy Lebanon, but it cannot destroy Hizbullah. He said that the Israelis are making the same mistake now with regard to the Shiite party as it did in 1982 with regard to trying to destroy Yasser Arafat's PLO. Padradouni said that the Phalangists, who once maintained a significant paramilitary, would not remilitarize and were supporting Lebanese President Emile Lahoud. Lahoud, an ex-general and a Maronite Christian, is pro-Syrian and soft on Hizbullah.

More from the Pope. A Vatican statement said:
"As in the past, the Holy See condemns both the terrorist attacks on the one side and the military reprisals on the other." It stated that Israel's right to self-defence "does not exempt it from respecting the norms of international law, especially as regards the protection of civilian populations."

Ally
Progressives need to sort out their Muslims, just as they need to sort out their Koreans and their Christians - they should not lump them all together, just as Anne Coulter should not lump all progressives ("liberals") together as "Godless."

It requires alot of picky analysis about things we didn't necessarily plan to go into depth on, but it's about our survival and decision making.

We need to see in nuances. Speaking of "nuances," I just read Esquires big national survey on US Males and even though their sample elected Bush by a nice margin, Kerry would now win in their world were the election held again today. Buyer's remorse, documented. The other surprising observation was that although high percentages were "religious," low percentages actually attended church often. The aetheist/agnostic numbers were larger than anticipated.

Then I was reading Jim Hightower's big economic survery of the US and wondered why so many of us have so little power - it had alot of information about which income groups pay what amount of taxes etc. It turns out 18 families in the US have been largely responsible for changes in our tax law (estate tax, dividend tax break etc). The top 1% own as much as the bottom 90% (these numbers are close - I can look them up). So there do not need to be many ultrarich families for them to gain power over our government. It's like some kingdom of old.

I am a dove.
I was born a dove.

It turns out 18 families in the US have been largely responsible for changes in our tax law (estate tax, dividend tax break etc).

Posted by: DiAnne at July 17, 2006 09:32 PM

Makes this all the more obscene in our nation.

Just so that these 18 families (Forbes, Walton, and who else?) can maintain their stranglehold on the economy, I have to be denied healthcare coverage (and possibly die from it), so many veterans have to go homeless after risking their lives on the battlefield, and so forth.

The picture is very wrong.

Fisk

http://www.albawaba.com/en/countries/200843/&mod=print

Hard to track down but always worth it. It's not always easy to sleep then.

Ally
Waltons for sure, & the people who make M&Ms.
I'm going to boycott M&Ms now.

suz: thanks suz for trying to understand what is going on in Israel. Since I have been a child I have heard generation after generation of miltants ready to kill Israelis, and drive them into the ocean, to the execution of the Olympic Weights lifters to the constant state of war they live in. I can't imagine any other country that would endure threats to its existence that would then be questioned whenever they respond militarily. If I saw rockets being launched into my neighborhood I would expect my government to do nothing less in response. Palestinans were offered a homeland in 1948 by Israel and turned it down and they were then rejected by bordering countries; that is why they have no homeland. Unfortunately any possibility at peace in the Middle East ended when Arafat rejected Bill Clinton's peace overtures. In 5 years Bush has totally ignored any kind of Arab Israeli peace prospects and like Korea, the only thing that has flourished there is more hatred and militants. Just like the missed opportunity to healthcare reform, I doubt any of us will be around to see peace of any sort in the Middle East again.
As a progressive I am troubled when I hear some from the left like I heard today call into Ed Schultz and other talk radio stations and eviscorate Israel for defending its citizens.

drive them into the sea,

Ira
I'm glad you made a comparison between Clinton's efforts and Bush's efforts. I think that's the important distinction and I agree about missed opportunities. I think we are going to hear alot of knee-jerk stuff. I'm glad people come here to educate themselves & others & that it is a learning process.

In 5 years Bush has totally ignored any kind of Arab Israeli peace prospects and like Korea, the only thing that has flourished there is more hatred and militants.

Posted by: Ira at July 17, 2006 09:41 PM

In both Israel and Korea, W destroyed Clinton's hard work at fostering peace. Clinton tried to work with all parties. W snubbed them (both Koreas, in the Korean case).

Unfortunately, back in Koreatown, that's why W is popular - he "stood up" to Kim Jong Il while Clinton and the leftist South Korean regimes "cowered," according to them.

Fisk article ends interestingly -

The Israelis were yesterday trumpeting the fact that the missile was made in Iran as proof of Iran's involvement in the Lebanon war. This was odd reasoning. Since almost all the missiles used to kill the civilians of Lebanon over the past four days were made in Seattle, Duluth and Miami in the United States, their use already suggests to millions of Lebanese that America is behind the bombardment of their country.

I'm glad people come here to educate themselves & others & that it is a learning process.

Posted by: DiAnne at July 17, 2006 09:44 PM

That's why DCP is such a wonderful place. The worst that happens here is to respectfully disagree.

Dianne:

It took Clinton and Albright a lot of effort and countless trips and meetings to have brought the peace process as far as it was in 2001 when he left office. Had Bush not been such a lazy ass and instead traveled to Israel in the months following his coronation we might not be seeing the debacle on CNN that we all endured this weekend. Fixing healthcare and bringing stability to the Middle East takes a lot of work that this slackard is simply not interested in. The next President will really have their hands full when they assume office. I just hope they are up to the myriad of problems that will be left on their desk.

Dianne are you suggesting that the missiles being shot into Israel from Lebanon were made by Ratheon? I have not heard that before? If that is accurate would you please post your source.

You know, it is seeming to me that alot of the problem Israel faces in the middle east is the perception about its linkage with US. There is a linkage (friendship, funding, history) but the perception is not always accurate. It seems that when the US does something unpopular in the middle east (such as get involved in conflict in Iraq), Israel is seen as involved in it whether it is or not. & then when Israel is involved in a conflict (as now), US is assumed to be involved in it, behind it, waiting opportunistically or whatever.

It seems to be a problem of perception, and when rumors fly, conspiracy theory reigns.

I mean, I just received an email with "court" information about the Oklahoma City bombings - one of the widows has a lawsuit and according to this, there were more people involved and the FBI had foreknowledge but didn't stop it. This may not be true, just like with alot of the speculation about 9/11, we don't really know the truth. This feeds conspiracy and speculation.

I'm convinced this happens in the middle east all the time and feeds interlocking nets of anti-Arab and anti-Israeli conspiracy theory and propaganda. We are not the only people who need to seek to educate ourselves and who have to seek to do it through a confusing and conflicting web of information of dubious accuracy and quality.

It's so easy to think, "I need to figure out what my position is on this." I just don't think it's possible to do it that easily any more. We may have to refine and revise every single day, whether it be the situation(s) in the middle east, or "moral" issues such as stem cell, abortion, gay rights, social security, poverty.

Ira
My source is Robert Fisk in the newspaper article I cited by him and he does not say where he gets his information. He has lived in Lebanon for years and I think he has a leftist bias but I do read him as one source. His articles always sound subjective, like op-eds, yet he's been around the block. He made me wonder, but I can't substantiate what he said. As I just wrote, I do think there is the "perception" in the middle east that US and Israel are constantly connected for foreign policy and that we are behind what they do or they are behind what we do. I'm not saying it's true, or to what extent it may be true, I'm just saying that it seems to be a huge assumption in the middle east.

Ira
I think it's an assumption not just in the middle east but also in the progressive alternative press, such as Air America and the blogosphere. I think this is where alot of the knee-jerk stuff comes from. Suppose we do fund Israel and help Israel - that doesn't mean we stage-manage every move they make, but I do think there are those who believe this. I cannot imagine the conspiracy theories that are going around. I can never decide which are scarier - the conspiracy theories or the truth we don't know.

that is not the same Robert Frisk that was a prosecutor in Iran Contra?

If he is trying to equate our selling weapons to a democracy like Israel with that of Iran selling rockets to hesbala, then his logic is convaluted.

yes we sell arms to Israel, Great Britain, France, Canada, etc., is there a point he is making? And many of those arms were made at Ratheon plants like those in Washington state.

Ira
I read these articles, just as a start. It's Fisk not Frisk and he's just always been an investigative reporter. I know he was shot once in Afghanistan. He's covered the mideast beat. He was definitely in Lebanon when they had their last blowout with Israel. His site is http://www.robert-fisk.org. Like I said, I use him as one source but also consider him in some ways biased (I think they all are!)

I think he was making the point that there will be a perception in the middle east that if US sells weapons to Israel, US is behind the attacks.

I agree with you that we sell arms to those countries but we have also sold weapons for cash money in shady deals and turned rather a blind eye. We supplied Saddam with chemical weapons for one, with Rumsfeld a major player, as in some shady deals with the Koreas. The Communists used to say "The Capitalists will sell the rope to hang themselves with."

Do we produce any consumables any more besides weapons?
Is that why we have such a massive trade deficit?! I maintain that our wars are expensive but that many here also profit. I really don't think we are in the business of supporting democracies and Bush has even said that even if governments are democratically elected, we don't necessarily support those governments. We don't, & we have a habit of propping up dictators when it's in our economic interest.

http://www.wisconsinproject.org/countries/israel/missile2000.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/ruebner02112003.html
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Israel_Selects_Raytheon_And_Rafael_For_Short
_Range_Missile_Defense_Interceptor.html

Anderson Cooper is doing a fascinating story about the M109 Missiles that Israel is shooting into Lebanon. He is showing very sophisticated computers programs that map precisely where the katuba rockets which are uncontrollably and randomly being shot into population centers are coming from, and maping the precise co-ordinates where they are being launched from. The Israeli soldiers then re enter those co ordinates into their M109 missiles and return fire precisely back to that location. Fisk, Frisk even if he can't see the difference he is an idiot. There have been some dumb arms shipped I think primarily during the Reagan Administation during the Iran/Iraq in the 1980s and to Lybia, which we now acknowledge was dumb, but I just can't accept a moral equivalency argument. I am far from an Israeli apologist but those watching this debacle need to carefully separate the wheat from the chaff.

I would like to chime in here. I have read a lot on the "pogressive" blogosphere today. I must admit my surpise and disappointment at the vitriol hurled upon Israel.

Truth,

I am not sure what is such an eye-opener, to you, about the Syrian ambassador's comments? Quite honestly the Syrian calls for negotiations are ridiculous. Syria is a fascist state run by a dictator - there is no sense of democracy in that country - which has called for the destruction of Israel, never once recognizing their right to exist. Why would Israel negotiate with a country that doesn't even recognize them? That makes no sense at all. Still, Syria's claims are disingenuous at best. What makes anybody believe that Assad wouldn't let Hezbollah use the Golan Heights to set up rocket launchers in order to attack and terrorize Israel? Why wouldn't he just use the Golan to attack Israel himself (I am curious what was Syria using the Golan for before the Six Day War?). For now, he is content to let Hezbollah act as his pawns in this violent and totally unnecessary battle.

It is truly unfortunate that Hezbollah establised their infrastructure in Beruit. Yet, Israel has no other recourse in order to defend itself from Hezbollah. This was a calculated move on Hezbollah's and their Iranian sponsor's part. For years we have seen innocent Israelis, Jewish and Muslim alike, murdered on buses, in trains, in restaurants, and in markets. Israelis do have a right to defend themselves. That is something even the most progressive thinker could agree to, I suppose.

Nobody can convince me that Israel, a democracy that has lived up to every bargain it has negotiated with the Arabs should be any less trustworthy than fascist Arab nations who have been clear about their intention to destroy Israel. I, for one, am proud to support Israel. At the same time, I recognize that Israel has made some serious mistakes.

Posted by: DiAnne at July 17, 2006 10:38 PM

BTW, the U.S is the world number one arms dealer.

I, for one, am proud to support Israel. At the same time, I recognize that Israel has made some serious mistakes.

Posted by: oncall at July 17, 2006 11:29 PM

That's the kind of position we need to see more often. No blatant Israel bashing, but no blatant defense of everything Israel does. Thanks, oncall!

Posted by: oncall at July 17, 2006 11:29 PM

It occurred to me that Ira, you, me, and others probably have years of experience studying the history of Israel and its relationship to their neighbors.

So I think a review of their history might help others understand what happened.

It is precisely because I've had so many years of education on Isreal pre-1980 that I went out to find out what the heck I've missed the last 5 years of my life.

Maybe we should just review and start at the beginning.

What do you think?

I know I posted a great starting point a few days ago from my left wing.

Posted by: Suz at July 17, 2006 11:46 PM

I'm hitting Wikipedia right now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#History

Thanks Ally.

I'm trying to think of some good books to suggest that aren't boring as heck.

Here it is:

http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=10309

I would like to chime in here. I have read a lot on the "pogressive" blogosphere today. I must admit my surpise and disappointment at the vitriol hurled upon Israel.

Posted by: oncall at July 17, 2006 11:29 PM

You should have seen what was in my inbox. It's why I had to explain why I was unsubscribing and what drove me to that point.

Good to come back to all the info. There is what happened, then there is what people THINK happened, whether Fox watchers, Al-Jazeera watchers, Air America listeners, Limbaugh listeners or anyone in between. I intend to learn not support a position, per se, because I have no problem with arguing with my own arguments. When I was at the gym just now, I even read Charles Krauthammer, in the back of TIME magazine. Even a semblance of "balance" would be appreciated. I think I'm a long way from an actual "position." I am going to see if I find anything by Ari Melber. He was on the foreign policy panel at YearlyKos and we talked about this some. He's from here but worked on Kerry's campaign and now writes for HuffPo & a bunch of others.

Rabbi Michael Lerner | End the Suffering in the Middle East
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/071706A.shtml
"The people of the Middle East are suffering again as militarists on all sides, and cheerleading journalists, send forth missiles, bombs and endless words of self-justification for yet another pointless round of violence between Israel and her neighbors," writes Rabbi Michael Lerner. This most recent episode of irrationality "evokes tears of sadness, incredulity at the lack of empathy on all sides, anger at how little anyone seems to have learned from the past, and moments of despair as we once again see the religious and democratic ideals subordinated to the cynical realism of militarism."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/17/173016/556
"I am a Jew" - interesting take.

It's seeming like everyone is getting screwed - religion or not.
Everyone everywhere - global warming, wars. We are all armed to the teeth, nations and many individuals.

Thanks, Suz, DiAnne, Ira, oncall, and everyone.

I need to add that I contribute to the ReBelle Nation blog, which was founded by Christy and now run by Rossiann. ReBelle has been clearly anti-Israel, and right now, as a fellow contributor, I am trying to add comments to clarify that it's not just Israel that's causing problems.

Rossi has been very respectful of my position, especially my mistrust, as a transwoman, of the Islamic world and its homophobia. And I appreciate her for that.

And of course, to defuse the tension, I will try to add a nude or two there once in a while, as Christy used to do.

read read read
think think think
It's not going to be a simple matter of being "for" or "against" Israel. Those days are over. Everything is so interconnected.
Hamas and Hezbollah are organized, not random terrorists, though they employ terror. The days when US could sit by and ignore are over, though with the likes of Elliot Abrams and John Bolton in charge, the odds aren't good for us being peace brokers. & we haven't had diplomatic relations with Iran since 1979 & this may all play right into their hands.

There are a whole bunch of things that have happened that shouldn't have and there is no going back. I don't think it may be as simple as anyone being "in the right."

I cannot imagine the conspiracy theories that are going around. I can never decide which are scarier - the conspiracy theories or the truth we don't know.

Posted by: DiAnne at July 17, 2006 10:09 PM

That's just the thing I am wrestling with right now. I find my trust level for anything I see in the media is very low, and my trust level for the fairness and decency of certain individuals and entities within our own government has been lowered - more than anything by the media itself lying to me, which is what drove me to the internet in the first place.

That being said, I found I was taken back by the assertions Syria's Ambassador made about many people being kidnapped and being held by the Israelis, and also that all they wanted was to trade merely the women and the children for the two Israeli soldiers. He also claimed that there have been many offers to Israel for peace talks that have gone unheeded.

I don't know why it took me back. Maybe because I am used to hearing Israels' point of view, or merely left to wonder what the "other side's" point of view is.

My main objective is to be educated about as much as I can. I have to admit I don't know that much about the history of the region, but now I know I would like to learn more about it. I know what I have read in the Old Testament about Israel, and my religion has always taught that Israel and the Jewish race are God's chosen people. I have been taught that whoever defends and honors Israel will be blessed by God.

But I also know that my heart melted when I met a very nice gentleman ten years ago in Egypt who was my tour guide. We had very many discussions about the similarities between our different religions, and his demeanor was soft spoken, and gentle. He had very kind eyes. I saw poor women with babies on their laps begging with tin cups in Nazareth in the West Bank. I saw a poor woman near Cairo who lived in a hut who was baking her bread in an outdoor oven in over 90 degree heat. The people were human beings.

I haven't been as widely traveled as many of you here, but one thing my travels taught me was that people are people the world around. Most people have love and kindness in their hearts, more so in less developed countries. I met relatives in a communist country that just loved their families so much in spite of the fact that their living standard was FAR BELOW what our poverty level allows. They put their finest tablecloth on and shared their ration of flour for the month with us to have a joyous celebration with a cake. What I remember most is that they just loved each other alot. Family was everything to them. I have found that true in most places I have been fortunate to travel to.

So these nationalities and countries have been fighting over territory for thousands of years. There is alot of hatred born of grievious wounds on both sides, no doubt. How can I possibly pick one side over another? For me, to understand is the best I can hope to do.

And I can't understand right now. I have to learn, I have to process. We all have to process. And what worries me about the future is not just concern for this planet. I am worried because I fear I am going to have to make a moral judgement over an upcoming war, if there should be one ahead. And I am confused right now.

If Iran is behind the Hezbollah attacks as some talking heads are saying, and we decide to go after Iran, will it be justified? Or is this propaganda?

Those are the issues I am wrestling with right now.

The answers don't come easily at this point.

Truth Shall Prevail
You are about where I am then!
I sincerely hope we don't end up fighting Iran. I have feared the scenario that seems to be happening for a long time.

Me too. And the timing of everything just seems a little too convenient to me.

I can't imagine a worse disaster than the U.S. getting into the middle of this current confilict. It would be a collosol blunder (But that is Bush's forte, isn't it?). The right wing talking heads are suggesting that America should take this "opportunity" to change the destiny (whatever that is) of the Middle East. I think it is worth noting that as somebody who defends Israel, I am not so dogmatic as to claim that one side is "right" and one side is "wrong". The situation is much too complicated to attempt to condense it into such arbitrary categories. Still, I must be guided by the relevant facts. Israel is a functioning democracy that has unilaterally withdrawn from land, while the other nations are not democratic and have not done a thing to welcome displaced Arabs (read Palestinians).

Truth,

I have to review the Israeli side to the Syrian claims of the kidnapping of women and children. I think it is also worth analyzing the Ambassador's comments about the attempts to negotiate the release of the Israeli soldiers immediately upon their capture. Clearly this kidnapping was just a ruse to get Israel to react in a way that Israel felt it had to in order to protect its borders and citizens. In the late 1980s Israel negotiated a swap for three of its citizens for 1500 Arabs prisoners. Israel released all of the prisoners it held. The Arabs released one of the three as the other two were dead.

One of the more interesting things you learn as you study the history of religion is that, at least over the last 1,000 years, Jews were always safer living among Muslims than among Christians. For instance, when the Jews of Spain were expelled during the Inquisition, they fled to Muslim lands and were accepted. Jews and Muslims died together at the hands of Christians, in Jerusalem, at the climax of the First Crusade.

The Koran describes Jews (and Christians) as "people of the book", and The Prophet insists that they be allowed to practice their faith in Muslim countries.

Something happened that altered this Jewish-Muslim dynamic, and I am left to conclude that it can only be the establishment of the State of Israel. Something happened during the creation of this State that transformed at least a thousand years of Jewish-Muslim relations.

Al Sharpton will always be a controversial figure. Most New Yorkers of a certain age will always remember his role in the Tawana Brawley case - an incident in New York in which a young black woman claimed she had been kidnapped and abused by some update white NY cops, one of whom was named Stephen Pagones. Sharpton was one a trio of activists who "represented" her - and at one point he insisted that Robert Abrams, the NYS Attorney General, was masturbating to photos taken of Brawley after she was discovered covered with feces wrapped in a black garbage bag in a dumpster. You can imagine what an explosive charge this represented - and all the evidence points to the fact the charge was completely untrue. In fact, the evidence also pointed to the likelihood that Brawley had simply made up the story of her abduction as a cover for her disappearance in what amounted to a family dispute.

Sharpton today is a very different person, but for those of us who witnessed his rise to power, we're always going to remember that incident - which was characteristic of quite a number of other incidents here in NYC. He's become an extremely entertaining and persuasive advocate - but I don't know that I will ever trust him.

Posted by: Cyrano at July 18, 2006 03:27 AM

Cyrano,

It wasn't the advent of the state of Israel that inspired that hate. Think back! It was ACCEPTABLE to HATE JEWS...so acceptable in fact that genocide was allowed to happen across Europe. It wasn't good enough to chase them off anymore; it became so acceptable that countries during the Holocaust actually refused to allow Jews to enter their country even if by some 'luck' (bribe) they had been allowed to leave Germany. They created allowances for 'x' amount of Jews to enter/ year and after that, the Jewish people had to hope for a different country to allow them in.

There was a ship that made the news for being one of the last to escape Germany. No country would let them in. They got to America where our country refused their entrance as well. On their way to S. America, they were killed by a Hurricane. They were Jews without a home and were reviled while being told they should have stayed in Germany.

There's also more information about the murderous spread of hate against Israel. Many who managed to escape the Holocaust tried to enter Israel. The Britains and Arabs had set up ships in the sea to intercept those refuges and prevent them from entering Israel. Many boats were sunk and people were drowned as they persisted in trying to escape the British blockade and enter their 'promised land'.

To make matters worse, the Palestinian Grand Mufti in Israel met with Hitler and devised more ways to wipe Jews off the face of the earth. This included enlisting the aid of all the other Arab leaders to join in and 'drive Israelis into the sea.' Thus, those Jews and Arabs who had originally founded a home together in Jerusalem and who were a community and got along just fine became enemies as a tremendous Mufti anti-Jew propaganda campaign increased the tensions between the two people. People who played together instead found themselves fearing the other side. Even those who still 'supported the Jews' would be attacked for being a 'Jew-lover'.

So anti-semitism was allowed to grow into an acceptable policy of the total destruction of the Jewish people.

It was out of the horror of the concentration camps that world suddenly experienced 'guilt' and shame for their part in the murder of thousands and thousands of Jews. Thus when the British were scheduled to leave the land which was to become Israel and Palestine, the United Nations decided how to partition off that land into two separate states: Israel and Palestine. Out of that land the United Nations voted to create Israel and Palestine. Israel voted to approve it and the Palestinians voted against it. You'll often hear those called, "the 1948 borders."

So all of that was said to prove my point that the advent of Israel did not create this hate between the Arabs and the Jews.

In the meantime, you can not just jump into modern day Israel and Palestine without knowing their complete and full history. That is also true of understanding the Arabs culpability in creating the oppressed people of Palestine as well. Fifty-five years after the 'birth of Israel' why have the Palestinian refuges not been integrated into their new countries? Instead they are forced to live in tent cities. This is not Israel's doing. It's the decision of those countries to keep them oppressed because they are being used as a political tool.

Now, this is where I'd agree with Oncall. Sure there are things that Israel had done to defend her people that we would disagree with; however, we're not the ones living surrounded by 5 Nations determined to drive a group of people to their deaths again. Think of how 9-11 effected us in its aftermath.

Then think of 9-11 events happening day in and day out. Think of planes hijacked in the 60's and 70's where Jews were diverted to Arab nations... Think of the murder of the Jewish Olympians...Think of sending your kids to school or a movie or a pizza and not knowing if they'll return that night. Think about that happening on a daily basis! Think about hopping on a bus and wondering if that pregnant lady is really pregnant or is she hiding explosives in there! Think of the ease in which cyberspace has erupted into huge antisemitism. Geez...I bet the Nazi party which has numerous hate sites online is loving this!!!

After the holocaust, when Israel was created, they decided that what happened then would never be allowed to happen again. Have they made mistakes along the way? More than likely. But they've also made numerous attempts to create peace in that region as well. They have a peace deal with Egypt. They have honored it. They've made peace deals with other nations as well.

They also attempted to negotiat peace with Arafat in 1992 I think it was. They were willing to give Arafat 97% of what he demanded. It was Arafat who walked away from the deal and began the current intifada (jihad).

It's severely disingenuous to say that "Americans (etc) support Israel". And then to say that Palestinians are oppressed by Israel when it's Palestinians own corrupt leaders who take the money they received in aid from Arab nations as well as other and instead of using that money to build the Palestinians infrastructures like schools, hospitals, businesses, instead they put that aid money into buying and creating more warfare and they pocket the money themselves. The Palestinians leadership has allowed poverty to persist on their own people. And when a family is given money for allowing one of their children to be a suicide bomber instead of given money to build a school...well, what kind of 'oppression' is that on their own people?

Yes, Israel built the wall with different checkpoints. Is it terrible for Arabs to enter back and forth into Israel for work? Of course it is. But remember that Arafat sat there on tv speaking in English saying, "We're sorry for the attack on ......" while in Arabic he said something quite opposite! Furthermore, the aid money was spent on Arafat's own 'police force' and also given to Hamas to continue the intifada against Israeli citizens.

Now, I'm fully versed in the long-term history of Israel. Today, what I needed help with was understanding what has happened in the last few years as I've been so focused on our own corrupt government. I did not understand the 'sudden' explosiveness.

I know full well that Israel isn't 100% an angel, but the rage against them right now and the suspicion against them is not in line with the amount of culpability earned.

It's not a cut and dry, "Israel is the occupiers. Israel has U.S. support." Like us, Israel has its conservatives, it's hawks, and it's doves. I just know that I won't support PDA or any other organization that is not taking into account the whole history of all those nations and their terrorist groups while brandishing the banner that Israel is the 'bad guy'. It's not just Israel and it never was.

Ally, I does Rebellenation take into account the Palestinians' leadership (and other Arab nations) underhanded deeds that are oppressing the Palestinian people as well or is it all only against Israel?

Posted by: Suz at July 18, 2006 05:48 AM

I also want to add that the Palestinian 'police force' is known to have a front door and a back door for dealing with their own terrorist. Publically arrest them...then privately sneak those same terrorists out the back door. And as a result, I know Israel has gone and gotten those people and tried them in court. Those are the people that Syria is likely talking about, Truth.

It's a corrupt police force.

How would we handle it? And Israel feels these events are an act aof war. When the government supports the terrorists, it's no longer a fringe group...it's the government policy and a government act of war.

I can see that logic.

Do I know how I feel about the current events? Heck no! But I still maintain that all this antisemitism about this is dead wrong.

its about Abraham, Ishmael, and Isaac.

the west wing series on TV did a relatively decent explanation of the mid east tensions with an episode.

The British have a lot to answer for regarding the current Mid east situation. Foriegn policy decisions dating back to Lawrence of Arabia, and the manner in which Arab / Jewish hatred was fostered to control Jerusalem by england.

Many social events take several generations to play themselves out, the mid east is struggling to correct itself after 100 years of intervention by western interests.

Bush, Blair laugh off mike mishap

Tuesday, July 18, 2006

(CNN) -- U.S. President George W. Bush and British PM Tony Blair have laughed off the moment when their unguarded comments were broadcast to the world on a live microphone at the G8 summit in St. Petersburg.

Asked about the microphone mishap during his final briefing of the summit, Blair quipped that it was "all about transparent government" -- smiling and tapping the microphone in front of him.

Bush "sort of rolled his eyes and laughed" when told the comments had been audible and a copy had been made, said Press Secretary Tony Snow, according to The Associated Press.

"Actually his reaction first was, 'What did it say?' So we showed him the transcript, then he rolled his eyes and laughed."

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/07/18/bush.tape.reaction/index.html

Here's an interesting column by conservative George Will in the Washington Post (hat-tip to Rawstory), blasting the neo-con policies around the middle east, and their "blame it all on Iran" agenda:

Transformation's Toll
By George F. Will
Tuesday, July 18, 2006; Page A19

"Grotesque" was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's characterization of the charge that the U.S. invasion of Iraq was responsible for the current Middle East conflagration. She is correct, up to a point. This point: Hezbollah and Hamas were alive and toxic long before March 2003. Still, it is not perverse to wonder whether the spectacle of America, currently learning a lesson -- one that conservatives should not have to learn on the job -- about the limits of power to subdue an unruly world, has emboldened many enemies.

-snip-

But there also is democratic movement toward extremism. America's intervention was supposed to democratize Iraq, which, by benign infection, would transform the region. Early on in the Iraq occupation, Rice argued that democratic institutions do not just spring from a hospitable political culture, they also can help create such a culture. Perhaps.

But elections have transformed Hamas into the government of the Palestinian territories, and elections have turned Hezbollah into a significant faction in Lebanon's parliament, from which it operates as a state within the state. And as a possible harbinger of future horrors, last year's elections gave the Muslim Brotherhood 19 percent of the seats in Egypt's parliament.

-snip-

The administration, justly criticized for its Iraq premises and their execution, is suddenly receiving some criticism so untethered from reality as to defy caricature. The national, ethnic and religious dynamics of the Middle East are opaque to most people, but to the Weekly Standard -- voice of a spectacularly misnamed radicalism, "neoconservatism" -- everything is crystal clear: Iran is the key to everything .

"No Islamic Republic of Iran, no Hezbollah. No Islamic Republic of Iran, no one to prop up the Assad regime in Syria. No Iranian support for Syria . . ." You get the drift. So, the Weekly Standard says:

"We might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait? Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained? That the current regime will negotiate in good faith? It would be easier to act sooner rather than later. Yes, there would be repercussions -- and they would be healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement."

full article here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071701152.html

Posted by: Suz at July 18, 2006 05:48 AM

The problem with your explanation is that, as I mentioned, according to the historians that I've been reading, Jews had always co-existed with Muslims. It was Christians, like the Germans, Spanish, Russians, who they had to worry about.

In a sense, the Palestinian response to the Jewish nationalist movement was like that of the Indians here in America. I suppose that the big difference is that, after the French and English were gone from Colonial America, the Indians didn't have allies egging them on, and offering them economic support.

The issue that keeps a settlement from being arrived at that might actually satisfy even the hard-liners in the Palestinian movement, and create a lasting peace, is the "right of return".

Imagine

John Lennon

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Suz, not every Palestinian is corrupt. Many Lebanese do not support Hezbollah. Many Israelis do not support all their government's policies.

Just a year ago we were all rooting for the Lebanese as they threw out the pro-Syrian politicians in their government after the assassination of Rafik al-Hariri, a former prime minister and member of Parliament who opposed Syrian meddling in Lebanon.

A very weak, anti-Syrian, pro-Western government was installed and Syria supposedly withdrew its forces. I remember reading speculation that although visible military forces had been withdrawn, there was doubt among the Lebanese themselves about whether or not the spies and secret police had really been withdrawn.

There was some discussion in the western world about what should be done to help support this nascent attempt at democracy. I didn't follow the aftermath as closely but I would be willing to bet that whatever assistance was provided, it wasn't very much. So you have a people who are trying to throw off the Syrian and Hezbollah yoke. They've been at it a little over a year.

These are the people that are being castigated for not having rooted out Hezbollah. These are the people who are being bombed.

If Israel could not root out Hezbollah after controlling southern Lebanon for many years, what makes everyone think that this new government will be able to do it after 1 year without very robust support from Israel and the western governments?

Second, I'd like to comment on all the accusations of anti-semitism being thrown around.

Just because someone may express a criticism, a disagreement, with the way Israel conducts its foreign policy or deploys its military resources, does NOT mean that person is anti-semitic.

Israel is a country like any other country on the planet and as such is open for criticism on how it manages itself on the planet. It's just the same as the US, Russia, China, Japan, Australia, Brazil, Argentina, North Korea, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Nigeria, South Africa, Namibia and the rest of the 193 countries that cohabit this globe.

I have English, French, Dutch, Scottish and American Indian forebears. That does not mean that I take offense every time someone criticizes English, French, Dutch or EU foreign policy or military decisions. I do take responsibility when US foreign policy is discussed because the representatives and president that I elect develop it and I hope that I have chosen well and have persuaded others to make the same wise choice.

Criticism of a country's military and foreign policy does not equate to racism, bigotry and intolerance of a particular ethnic or religious group that is associated with that country. It may be hard for one who thinks of them as integrally related but they are not.

Here's what we're up against:

I think we ought to execute some air strikes against Syria, against the instruments of power of that state, against the airport, which is the place where the weapons shuttle through from Iran to Hezbollah and Hamas. I think both Syria and Iran think that we're cowards. [...] The last thing we ought to do now is to start talking about cease-fires and the rest.
-- James Woolsey, Former CIA Director

We might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait? Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained? That the current regime will negotiate in good faith? It would be easier to act sooner rather than later. Yes, there would be repercussions -- and they would be healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement.
-- Bill Kristol, Weekly Standard

The one thing we want to avoid is stopping Israel before it gets a chance to do what it is trying to do to Hezbollah. So here's hoping that Rice's visit to the region "at some point in the future" comes later rather than sooner.
-- Rich Lowry, National Review Online

The answer lies in delivering an unequivocal blow to Syrian ground forces deployed near the Lebanese border. [...] Of course, Syria could respond with missile attacks against Israeli cities, but given the dilapidated state of Syria's army, the chances are greater that Assad will simply internalize the message.
-- Michael Oren, The New Republic

Here's what I do know about World War III and the impending apocalypse. One, we can't coexist with people who want to blow up trains and subways and bring down buildings. If somebody has a death wish, not really the best negotiating partner. [...]
And it's not just us. It's the whole Western way of life that is in trouble. That's why we need to get on that World War III bandwagon.
-- Glenn Beck, CNN Headline News

kill'em all. let God sort'em out.
GOOD.
To quote Tom Quick, Avenger of the Delaware, following dashing the head of an Indian baby on a rock, "From nits come lice".
boo friggin hoo. just eliminating future terrorists IMO.
-- Quotes from Free Republic posters upon hearing of the deaths of eleven Lebanese children when a car and minibus were hit by Israeli missiles, compiled by Jesus' General

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/17/232221/904

Remember Israel's history but also remember Rachel Corrie,
killed by an Israeli bulldozer.

Lest we forget:

Gunmen Kill Dozens at Shiite Market in Iraq

By EDWARD WONG
BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 17 — Dozens of gunmen suspected of being Sunni Arabs went on a rampage through a mostly Shiite market area in the town of Mahmudiya on Monday, killing at least 48 civilians and wounding scores, police officials said.

Many of the attackers, who fired assault rifles, heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades, wore the uniforms of the Iraqi security forces.

“You can’t tell your friend from your enemy,” an Iraqi Army officer said as Iraqi troops moved in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=print

Dwahzon
Thanks - I wanted to say something like that for a few days & didn't know how to put it so well. My husband's mother is Jewish and he agreed with what you said. It's easy to call someone anti-Semitic for criticizing an Israeli policy, but if you ever meet a real anti-Semite you will know it (such as a neo-Nazi or a guy we knew from Iran who would not listen to anything without yelling).

And here's the brilliant man leading the charge - from the Daily Show last night:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBxbuweRFQQ&mode=related&search=

The world is weeping.

I bet the servers at raptureready.com are smoking.

Hunker Down With History
By Richard Cohen
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/17/AR2006071701154.html
The greatest mistake Israel could make at the moment is to forget that Israel itself is a mistake. It is an honest mistake, a well-intentioned mistake, a mistake for which no one is culpable, but the idea of creating a nation of European Jews in an area of Arab Muslims (and some Christians) has produced a century of warfare and terrorism of the sort we are seeing now. Israel fights Hezbollah in the north and Hamas in the south, but its most formidable enemy is history itself.

This is why the Israeli-Arab war, now transformed into the Israeli-Muslim war (Iran is not an Arab state), persists and widens. It is why the conflict mutates and festers. It is why Israel is now fighting an organization, Hezbollah, that did not exist 30 years ago and why Hezbollah is being supported by a nation, Iran, that was once a tacit ally of Israel's. The underlying, subterranean hatred of the Jewish state in the Islamic world just keeps bubbling to the surface. The leaders of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan and some other Arab countries may condemn Hezbollah, but I doubt the proverbial man in their street shares that view.
(read rest at the link - it's interesting)

Growin' Up
by Bruce Springsteen

I stood stone-like at midnight suspended in my masquerade
I combed my hair till it was just right and commanded the night brigade
I was open to pain and crossed by the rain and I walked on a crooked crutch
I strolled all alone through a fallout zone and came out with my soul untouched
I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd but when they said "Sit down" I stoodvup.
Ooh-ooh growin' up

The flag of piracy flew from my mast, my sails were set wing to wing
I had a jukebox graduate for first mate, she couldn't sail but she sure could sing,
I pushed B-52 and bombed 'em with the blues with my gear set stubborn on standing
I broke all the rules, strafed my old high school, never once gave thought to landing,
I hid in the clouded wrath of the crowd but when they said "Come down" I threw up
Ooh-ooh growin' up

I took month-long vacations in the stratosphere and you know it's really hard to hold your breath.
I swear I lost everything I ever loved or feared, I was the cosmic kid in full costume dress
Well, my feet they finally took root in the earth but I got me a nice little place in the stars
And I swear I found the key to the universe in the engine of an old parked car
I hid in the mother breast of the crowd but when they said "Pull down" I pulled up
Ooh-ooh growin' up

Posted by: DiAnne at July 18, 2006 08:33 AM

Cohen must be getting hate mail right about now.

Imagine if Gandhi's vision of one India had triumphed, and not the separatist vision of India and Pakistan, or Palestine and Israel. I think that we'd be living in a much better world.

I can't help but wonder how things would look if Rabin hadn't been assasinated....

Minister Becomes Force on 'Religious Left.'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_us/minister_on_the_left

This guy's gonna start doing a segment on Air America Radio. He gets it.

Media Media Media Media Media

He's also training other ministers to respond to the neocon fundies on religious issues.

He's doin' it.

Posted by: DiAnne at July 18, 2006 08:33 AM

DiAnne,

This is the last sentence in the piece you linked: It is best for Israel to hunker down.

I am not entierely sure what that means. Is he implying that Israel should allow itself to be bombarded with missles and cross border kidnappings? Or is he saying Israel should be ready to endure a long violent period while it tries to defend itself against those intent on destroying it?

The fact that Israel was formed as a Jewish nation state in the Middle East is not an acceptable reason to excuse Arab/Muslim revulsion - and determined attempts at extermination - that there are Jews in their midst. One "mistake" that the author forgets to mention is that Israel was attacked on the day that it was declared a nation. That is history worth remembering as well.

Surely, one can go back and list the grievences, tit for tat, that have been the long bloody, violent path of Israeli nationhood. But that does no good.

Calling Israel a mistake is probably the worst thing I have read in all of the discussions on this subject. The author glibly recognizes Hezbollah as a rogue organization. He also contradicts himself when he recounts the internal Israeli arguments against Israel unilaterally pulling out of southern Lebanon and Gaza. I am not sure what his point is? Restraint is necessary, but from both sides. If Hezbollah had shown restraint, would Israel have unleashed its military might? I don't think so.

I repeat, calling Israel a mistake is myopic and condones the Arab/Muslim actions against Israel.

Oncall
I took it that he meant the latter.
It's a provocative piece, no doubt.

Assume Iran and Syria back Hezbollah - some want the US to get involved and in fact, could use the Israel/Lebanon entanglement as their justification. What would happen?

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,2098896,00.html

Key States Don't Want All-Out War
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1153173011759&call_pageid=968332188492
But check out the neocon quote at the bottom.

...some want the US to get involved and in fact, could use the Israel/Lebanon entanglement as their justification. What would happen?

Posted by: DiAnne at July 18, 2006 09:21 AM

I would register with rapture ready.com.................that's a joke son.

We have a Republican-run Congress and Senate.
Look for them to mould this crisis into their policy position in time for the mid-terms, simplistic and self-serving. Anyone who criticizes will be called an appeaser and enemy of freedom.

oncall -

Before you get too worked up over that column, just consider the author, Richard Cohen. He definitely belongs to the bloviating pundit crowd that has nothing of substance to offer to any discussion.

http://www.raptureready.com/rap2.html

The Rapture Index is increased by Liberalism.

Wikipedia on Cohen (with any Wikipedia bias)

Cohen's political views are usually seen as liberal or center-left on most issues. For example, he is pro-choice, pro-gay rights, against the Iraq War [1], against the Bush tax cuts, and agrees with former Vice President Al Gore on global warming [2].
However, he has been criticized by some staunchly liberal observers for what they deem to be insufficiently consistent adherence to liberal stances and priorities. He recently attracted controversy for his criticism of outspoken Stephen Colbert fans [3]. Others recall his condemnation of President Clinton over the Lewinsky scandal. MediaMatters, a left-leaning media watchdog, chided Cohen [4] [5], [6] for some columns lacking what they see as necessary context and thus exhibiting a double standard favoring conservatives.

Hey it's Stem Cell Day

Posted by: DiAnne at July 18, 2006 09:31 AM

Wow,,.. we are getting closer to the all time high (157 today, 182 9/24/01), and only two points away from the 2006 watermark.

Let's go for the record!

Posted by: dwahzon at July 18, 2006 08:18 AM

Calling out Israel for the policies isn't the problem. But blaming Israel for it's policies without looking at the actions of its neighobrs is. I said that here:

"I know full well that Israel isn't 100% an angel, but the rage against them right now and the suspicion against them is not in line with the amount of culpability earned.

It's not a cut and dry, "Israel is the occupiers. Israel has U.S. support." Like us, Israel has its conservatives, it's hawks, and it's doves. I just know that I won't support PDA or any other organization that is not taking into account the whole history of all those nations and their terrorist groups while brandishing the banner that Israel is the 'bad guy'. It's not just Israel and it never was."

And from the stuff I've seen around the blogs and around cyberspace, I do believe that it's crossed into anti-semetism, not just critique of a Israelis' policy.

Posted by: DiAnne at July 18, 2006 09:29 AM

That's what scares me most about this extension of the Israelis-Lebanon conflict because it's so difficult to ascertain what the truth is from the lies. It's also difficult to trust Bush or Condi to do right by anyone in that region.

It's an election year and they'll do anything to remain in power.

That's what makes all of this scary...not knowing who to trust but knowing that the media feeds us parcels and bits of brainwashing information.

Where do we go for the truth?

Suz
Yes it is scary. All I can think to do is sample all the world's press (news stories & opinion pieces) as it should be a full-spectrum from left to right. That doesn't tell us what the truth is but it gives us a fuller picture.

OnCall
You had to go & tell me about Rapture Ready! It has a Forum & posts its emails & it's kind of a window into a wierd world. They posted the article about the minister from the left & were waxing ecstatically about Franklin Graham being shown on Fox News. One of the evils to many there seem to be the Sustainable Agriculture program at a midwestern school, which they don't want their children lured into.

I thought the Michael Lerner overview presented a pretty reasonable approach to moving forward in the region. When are people going to learn that machismo begets machismo - and shows of strength inspire strength in others.

I also think we should draft Bill Kristol immediately, and send him to Iraq - where his supremely martial spirit could be put to the test. You'd think this nutjob would have been humbled by the failure of the Iraq invasion, but he continues on as Iraq were somehow a safer place than when Hussein was orchestrating the terror.

I think Bill Kristol would learn alot in Iraq! William Kristol, PFC.

Re news sources, in addition to American public radio & selection of newspapers on the internet, I like to sample the BBC but also Al-Jazeera. It says here the editorial content is not the same for the English and Arabic versions (this is WikiPedia again). I've read it since it was available and I quite like it. I mean, if someone wants to tell me it's horribly biased, I can turn to Fox also. I am willing to do that.

(from Wikipedia, re Distribution/Audience)

It is widely believed internationally that inhabitants of the Arab world are given limited information by their governments and media, and that what is conveyed is biased towards the governments' views. Many people see Al Jazeera as a more trustworthy source of information than government and foreign channels. Some scholars and commentators use the notion of contextual objectivity,[14][15] which highlights the tension between objectivity and audience appeal, to describe the station's controversial yet popular news approach.[15] As a result, it is probably the most watched news channel in the Middle East.

Increasingly, Al Jazeera's exclusive interviews and other footage are being rebroadcast in American, British, and other western media outlets such as CNN and the BBC. In January 2003, the BBC announced that it had signed an agreement with Al Jazeera for sharing facilities and information, including news footage. Al Jazeera is now considered a fairly mainstream media network, though more controversial than most. In the United States, video footage from the network is largely limited to showing the mercy pleas of hostages.

Al Jazeera's programming is available worldwide through various satellite and cable systems.[16] In the U.S., it is available through satellite. Al Jazeera can be freely viewed with a DVB-S receiver as it is broadcast on the Astra and Hot Bird satellites.
Al Jazeera's web-based service is accessible subscription-free throughout the world, though the English and Arabic sections appear to be editorially distinct, with their own selection of news and comment.

I am talking about the internet print version.

Who do you think is mainly to blame for the current Middle East crisis?

Hezbollah :
21%
Iran and Syria :
19%
Israel :
33%
Lebanon :
1%
United States :
13%
All of the above :
13%
None of the above :
0%

Number of pollers : 53281
Al-Jazeera
They also had their Bureau Chief captured & released by Israel.

More than 1,000 Lebanese and Palestinians staged an anti-Israeli protest at Berlin's Brandenburg Gate on Monday, police said.

A Reuters witness said demonstrators were chanting "death to Israel" and "death to Zionists", while some carried placards bearing the image of Hizbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L17159532.htm

http://www.beirutnotes.blogspot.com/

Iran, Syria, Hezbollah and Israel are turning Lebanon into killing fields. My beautiful country is being burned by crazy ideologies. My Lebanon of joy is being eaten by human monsters. My kind Lebanon is being butchered in the name of religion.

Our enemy Israel is killing us but at least its civilians are dying and it is paying the price of its military adventure, so is Hezbollah. But the cowards of Syria and Iran are sitting and watching civilians die and smiling cunningly.

The cowards of Syria and Iran are selling their oil at unprecedented prices and are reaping the political and economic benefits while we are loosing our children and billions of dollars.

wow here's a different blog. Has some amazing videos on it.

http://israelibunker.blogspot.com/

It is widely believed internationally that inhabitants of the Arab world are given limited information by their governments and media, and that what is conveyed is biased towards the governments' views

Posted by: DiAnne at July 18, 2006 10:14 AM

Sounds just like home.

If Israel could not root out Hezbollah after controlling southern Lebanon for many years, what makes everyone think that this new government will be able to do it after 1 year without very robust support from Israel and the western governments?

Posted by: dwahzon at July 18, 2006 08:18 AM

Did they try to root them out?

To my knowledge, they held a buffer zone so that the small range missiles Hezbollah had would not be able to reach civilian areas in Israel. When a few years ago, they left that area as part of the agreement, Lebanon was suppose to provide the buffer zone and security per their side of the agreement.

What happened?

Suz - this gives an accounting of the major events in Lebanon's history over the last 5.5 years. Pay particular attention to the accounting of 2004 and 2005 events.

Anything that Emile Lahoud says can be deemed as coming from Syria. Rafik al-Hariri resigned as Prime Minister when Lahoud's term as President was extended. It was Hariri's death along with others in 2005 that started change in Lebanon.

It's too bad Israel and the Western governments didn't step up with the necessary support at that time.

http://www.irinnews.org/S_report.asp?ReportID=51210&SelectRegion=Middle_East

On the election news front, RFK Jr. has filed the suit against Diebold. Oh...for transparancy!
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3065

Posted by: dwahzon at July 18, 2006 11:23 AM

Link won't work.

If you haven't seen our frat boy "leader" accosting the German Chancellor, you should.

As a woman, watching this made me sick. This woman was not "smiling" as the LA Times reported. She was recoiling from an unbelievably innapropriate act, and then trying to gather herself after being embarrased by the President of the United States. Where's the coverage? Can you imagine if Bill Clinton would have done this?

Every time I think I cannot be more horrified....

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/7957.html

Posted by: Carol at July 17, 2006 08:15 PM

Carol thanks for that video link. I have to admit that I'm less appalled by the word he said than I am by the fact that he was CHOMPING his food and smacking his lips and making all sorts of noice as he ate. (In addition to chewing with his mouth wide open!)

(I'm willing to admit that maybe the noice was magnified by the microphone. I hope so. But chewing with your mouth wide open? yuck!

Posted by: Lou at July 18, 2006 11:33 AM

I saw it. It's classic sexual harrassment.

Attorney General: Bush blocked wiretap investigation

RAW STORY
Published: Tuesday July 18, 2006

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has told a Senate hearing that President Bush blocked the Office of Professional Responsibility from investigating domestic eavesdropping programs.

SEN. SPECTER: It was highly classified, very important and many other lawyers had access. Why not O-P-R?

GONZALES: The President of the United States makes the decision.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Attorney_General_Bush_blocked_wiretap_investigation_0718.html

Bush blocked probe into anti-terror spying
At testy Senate hearing, attorney general cites classified data

BREAKING NEWS
Updated: 24 minutes ago

(AP)WASHINGTON - Attorney General Alberto Gonzales said Tuesday that President Bush personally blocked Justice Department lawyers from pursuing an internal probe of the warrantless eavesdropping program that monitors Americans’ international calls and e-mails when terrorism is suspected.

The department’s Office of Professional Responsibility announced earlier this year it could not pursue an investigation into the role of Justice lawyers in crafting the program, under which the National Security Agency intercepts some telephone calls and e-mail without court approval.

At the time, the office said it could not obtain security clearance to examine the classified program.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13918661/

Posted by: monkey at July 18, 2006 11:43 AM

Well, he is the Decider, after all.....

Monkey,

Give that news some legs!

Good diary here on megachurches. My sister-in-law was a fundie working at one of those, but now isn't. Don't know if it's because of the 'left' turn they may have made.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/18/104956/674

(I'm willing to admit that maybe the noice was magnified by the microphone. I hope so. But chewing with your mouth wide open? yuck!

Posted by: Suz at July 18, 2006 11:36 AM

I watched it on Olbermann last night. It was a much longer clip and imbicile bush chomped on and on and on - chewing with his mouth open and talking with his mouth full. Disgusting.

No wonder he was so enamored with the eating the pig in Germany.

Oink, oink.

Piggies
by The Beatles

Have you seen the little piggies
Crawling in the dirt
And for all the little piggies
Life is getting worse
Always having dirt to play around in.

Have you seen the bigger piggies
In their starched white shirts
You will find the bigger piggies
Stirring up the dirt
Always have clean shirts to play around in.

In their styes with all their backing
They don't care what goes on around
In their eyes there's something lacking
What they need's a damn good whacking.

Everywhere there's lots of piggies
Living piggy lives
You can see them out for dinner
With their piggy wives
Clutching forks and knives to eat their bacon.

Gay marriage ban expected to fail in House
Constitutional amendment supporters resigned to losing effort

Updated: 45 minutes ago

(AP)WASHINGTON - A proposed constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage was headed toward a House vote Tuesday with supporters resigned to another losing effort but determined to highlight it in this fall's elections.

"This vote will serve as an opportunity for each and every member of this body to go on record in support or in opposition to protecting the traditional definition of marriage," said Rep. Phil Gingrey, R-Ga., at the opening of the debate on the proposal to define marriage as a union of a man and a woman.

Opponents disparaged the measure as both meaningless _ the Senate last month decisively rejected the amendment _ and mean-spirited.

"This bill, to put it simply and bluntly, is about adding discrimination and intolerance to the United States Constitution," said Rep. James McGovern,, D-Mass.

American values agenda
The marriage amendment is part of the "American values agenda" the House is taking up this week that includes a pledge protection bill and a vote on President Bush's expected veto of a bill promoting embryonic stem cell research. Bush has asked, and social conservatives demanded, that the gay marriage ban be considered in the run-up to the election.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13918660/

Amazing what a google search will turn up!

Bush Pig

http://tinyurl.com/lw4zq

Suz, I just tried that link again and it worked for me. It does take awhile to load.

Here are some other items to peruse...

Israel's Lebanon campaign goes beyond Hizbollah
18 Jul 2006 14:02:09 GMT
Source: Reuters

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/B389023.htm

Canadian family pays ultimate price in Lebanon
18 Jul 2006 15:13:57 GMT
Source: Reuters

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L18367117.htm

Then there's this from Haaretz

Last update - 19:21 16/07/2006
Mubarak: Egypt persuaded Israel against land attack on Beirut
By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent, and News Agencies

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738749.html

And then there's this op-ed written by a former assistant to Israeli prime minister Shimon Peres, Gideon Levy, which appeared in Ha'aretz and is more blunt than many posts I've seen.

Operation Peace for the IDF
By Gideon Levy

Every neighborhood has one, a loudmouth bully who shouldn't be provoked into anger. He's insulted? He'll pull out a knife. Spat in the face? He'll draw a gun. Hit? He'll pull out a machine gun. Not that the bully's not right - someone did harm him. But the reaction, what a reaction!
~snip~
Everyone knows how this war begins, but does anyone know how it ends? Heavy casualties in the Israeli rear? A war with Syria? A general war? Is it all worth it? Look what a new rookie government can do in such a short time.

Behind the operations in Lebanon and Gaza is the same foolish idea about pressure on the population leading to political changes that Israel wants. In the history of the Israeli-Arab conflict, that concept has only led us from one disaster to the next. We "cleansed" southern Lebanon of Palestinians in 1982, and what did we get? Hezbollahstan instead of Fatahland. Hamas won't fall because Gaza is in the dark, and not even because we bombed the Palestinian Foreign Ministry building at the weekend - another nonsensical move; Hezbollah won't be smashed because the international airport in Beirut has been put out of commission.

Israel once again is not distinguishing between a justified war against Hezbollah and an unjust and unwise war against the Lebanese nation. The camouflage concealing the war's real goals was ripped off by this defense minister, who says what he means: "Nasrallah is going to get it so bad that he will never forget the name Amir Peretz," he bragged, like a typical bully. Now at least we know that Israel went to war so that the name Amir Peretz is never forgotten. It's the war for the perpetuation of the name Peretz and the blurring of Dan Halutz's failures. And to hell with the cost.

Read the entire op-ed here and it is worth the time...
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738739.html

(link to Levy's background... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gideon_Levy )

And just as a point of curiosity, I expect many of you missed this one where a conservative blogger posted a letter from a Lebanese friend of his and then ended up having to close his blog to comments because of the reaction of other conservative bloggers. A couple other lib bloggers picked up on it.

The whole thing is here

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001183.html

and here:

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001184.html

The second post in particular has some information about the political makeup of different parts of Lebanon and how indiscriminate bombing is not necessarily useful to Israel's presumed goal of peaceful co-existence with its neighbors.

Bob Cesca: That'll Be $325,000 In The Swear Jar, Mr. President

Under the newly passed Broadcast Decency Enforcement Act of 2005, signed by
President Bush on June 15, individual broadcasters can be fined $325,000 for using an "excretory" remark on television during daytime hours. While I'm on government fines, it's worth noting the penalty for hiring an illegal immigrant is $250 per worker. But you know, at least the GOP's big government apparatus is going after guys who talk about poop on television...

Like President Bush, who said the word "s--t" on CNN today.

Now granted, CNN is a cable network and not necessarily included under the guidelines of the new law. Even though Senator Ted Stevens wants to extend the law to cover cable and satellite, the law only covers over-the-air broadcast television and radio. Additionally, the president's blooper was incidental, just like Howard Stern's incidental use of the word "blumpkin" for which he was fined by the FCC without any explanation regarding why "blumpkin" is suddenly an obscenity.

- more -

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20060717/cm_huffpost/025194

Last but not least for those who want a bit of a historical refresher, dkos poster celticshel has started a series of diaries. Today's has a series of geopolitical maps and lays out relatively recent history and geopolitical background for Israel and its neighbors.

Warning -- contains a fair number of maps and is not too friendly to dial-up connections.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/18/105825/103

July 18, 2006 -- Former Time Inc. Editor-in-Chief Norman Pearlstine will sever ties to the parent company after Labor Day to become a senior adviser to the Carlyle Group, the global buyout firm.

Carlyle, which recently was part of the winning consortium that bought VNU, owner of Nielsen Media Research and Hollywood Reporter, is interested in stepping up its media activity. It currently has $41.9 billion under management and is interested in expanding in publishing, TV and new media.

Pearlstine became a senior adviser to Time Warner in January after 11 years in the firm's top editorial job.

Often when a buyout firm brings aboard new talent, it is with an acquisition target already in mind.

A Carlyle spokesman insisted Pearlstine's hiring "does not presage an existing deal. It's just an effort to bolster our media expertise."

more...
http://www.nypost.com/business/pearlstine_to_leave_time_for_carlyle_business_keith_j__kelly.htm

"blumpkin" is an obscenity? Doesn't anyone at the FCC read this stuff before they send it out?

ok... I'll stop after this but just one more article that highlights the complexity of the situation.

From the Sydney Morning Herald, Sydney, Australia

Militants are sole help for families
Mohamad Bazzi in Beirut
July 19, 2006

THEY tried to hold out as long as they could.

But after four days of intense Israeli bombardment of their south Beirut neighbourhood, Fouad Yassin and his wife, Riqa, realised that their children could no longer take it. Their week-old infant, Hawrat, had a fever and their three-year-old son, Mohammed, was continually vomiting.

"Each new missile would shake the walls. We couldn't sleep for three nights," said Mr Yassin, cradling his infant daughter in his arm. "I had to leave because of my children. Even if the bombing did not kill them, they would die from fear."

Mr. Yassin, 35, a book dealer, fled the Bir El-Abed district of Beirut on Monday. Along with his father, mother, four siblings and their families - 24 people in all - they crammed into two minivans and drove through back roads for nearly three hours looking for somewhere to take refuge.

They arrived at the Ibn Rushd School, where they were given foam mattresses to sleep on. Three cans of tuna, two packages of processed cheese and a bundle of bread was the food ration for the day.

At no point in their flight did the Yassins receive help from the Lebanese Government. Instead they ended up at a school that has been temporarily taken over by Hezbollah.
~snip~

The wave of displaced residents is creating another crisis for Lebanon, a country of 4 million which is ill-equipped to handle a mass dislocation.

Because most of the refugees are Shiites who are flooding into Sunni Muslim and Christian areas, the problem also threatens to exacerbate sectarian tensions in a society that never healed from the 1975-90 civil war.

"The refugees are not among the top priorities for the Lebanese Government," said Charles Adwan, former director of the Lebanese Transparency Association, a good-governance group.

"In the current situation, 90 per cent of the refugees are Shiites and many in the political community don't feel much regret that they were displaced."

read the entire article here...
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/militants-are-sole-help-for-families/2006/07/18/1153166383692.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/bush-and-blairs-less-tha_b_25204.html
Bush and Blair's Less Than Excellent Conversation

There's a link to videos at crooks & liars. I saw part of this video on TV even (think it was BBC?)... DumDum was trying to talk with his mouth full, chomping on food without closing his mouth.... Immature frat boy gone wild, swearing over world political situations... etc., and then the sexually harrassing neck/shoulder rub to Chancellor Merkel from the link above, clearly inappropriate in the extreme! Oh, MFG, this embarrasing piece of flesh is the "leader of the free world..." You don't know how badly I wish his mother had miscarried when she was pregnant with him....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/thatll-be-325000-in-th_b_25194.html
That'll Be $325,000 In The Swear Jar, Mr. President

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5189048.stm
Bush's greeting for his pal Blair

The video on this link includes the BBC analysis of the remarks... including a comment about the fact he was talking with food in his mouth - I think people are more grossed out about that and the familiarity with names than they are with his saying 'shit'.... Overnight I saw a news blurb about this on one of the networks, and the reporter said something to the effect that if he was going to swear, could he please not appoint an FCC head who would enforce such a stiff fine for showing the news clip of him swearing....

To the hackers of voting machines, the SCOTUS judges who put him in office in 2000, and that base of 30% of people who still support the Moron: See what you did?!?!? You are to blame for that putrid piece of pus "leading" this nation, that embarrassing frat-brat boy who is embarrassing all of us on the world stage, not to mention his illegal wars and illegal detention and torture of people.... WHAT were you thinking?!?!? I hope you're proud of your ol' home boy that was never taught any manners, who was obviously not taught proper decorum and protocol with world leaders or how to address them by their titles, who is such a monumental f-up in every way possible, because I'm so embarrassed and ashamed that I could walk upright under a blade of grass at this point, with room to spare because I'm hanging my head in shame!

new thread

You guys never fail to share wit and information.

Ahhh. The DCP. The pause that refreshes.

Posted by: NonnyO at July 18, 2006 02:05 PM

Methinks the Dubs was WAY outta lines, if ya nose what I means.

Minister Becomes Force on 'Religious Left.'

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060715/ap_on_re_us/minister

Posted by: Victoria Ellen at July 18, 2006 08:55 AM

I think the Fundies might lend more creedance to someone like him, who grew up in their atmosphere. They are more likely to feel he has his "pedigree".

It's very encouraging that he's training other ministers to answer the viewpoint of the religious right who has been wooed and won by the neocons.

I feel what he offers is a chance for some balance, and that is needed, and so valuable.

It's past time.

Posted by: monkey at July 18, 2006 02:27 PM

You soooo funny!!!!

Truth nose.

Wow you guys.

This was SOME thread!!!

I got on to try to catch up and it's been over two hours. I am bookmarking this thread and will return to it over and over again until every single solitary word is read. So much information my head is spinning!!!

Thank you all so much. Off to digest what I have just read and to do my work. (This is so interesting!)