More Than an Intersection

Suz:

I think we have reached the place where the line between fantasy and reality has been blurred. Unfortunately the fantasy is that of violence, suppression, terror, and corporatism and militarism.

Its also telling that there is SO MUCH EFFORT put into making the icon of 9-11 sacrosanct for the neocons. That tells me there are fewer and fewer harbors for them to feel safe. Once this item slips away from them, their toehold on power slips as well.

I hope everyone checked out Olbermann last night and the release of the NORAD tapes, showing the administration inept in its handling of the 9-11 crisis AND the Vice-President's lying about it. There is more to come.

Forgot to add that BOTH the fantasy and reality include violence, suppression, terror, corporatism and militarism.

I Shall Be Released
by The Band

They say everything can be replaced
They say every distance is not near
So I remember every face
Of every man who put me here

I see my light come shining
From the west down to the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released

They say every man needs protection
They say that every man must fall
Yet I swear I see my reflection
Somewhere so high above this wall

Now yonder stands a man in this lonely crowd
A man who swears he's not to blame
All day long I hear him shouting so loud
Just crying out that he was framed

I see my light come shining
From the west down to the east
Any day now, any day now
I shall be released

Entertainment is big business. Big business uses political clout for a variety of purposes which are ultimately directed at maximizing their profits. Looking at it from that perspective,none of this is surprising but we do need to remain aware of how this impacts the free expression of ideas.

It sounds like this movie might not face as much controversy as Stone's other films. While some conservatives were worried about a film by Stone, other conservatives love it (almost too much for my comfort from some of the comments below). The LA Times article linked to in the blog post ends with:

Some conservative activists who got an early screening say Stone surprised them.

Brent Bozell, president of the Parents Television Council, called the film a masterpiece.

And syndicated columnist Cal Thomas called it "one of the greatest pro-American, pro-family, pro-faith, pro-male, flag-waving, God Bless America films you will ever see."

"Whatever one thinks of Oliver Stone," he wrote, "the man knows how to make movies."

Conyers just released a devastating report:

Conyers' Report Newly Updated: "Constitution in Crisis"

The Constitution in Crisis; The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution, and Coverups in the Iraq War, and Illegal Domestic Surveillance

Go to: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/constitutionincrisis for links to the Final Investigative Report of the House Judiciary Committee Democratic Staff. (This Report is over 350 pages.)

Full Report

Table of Contents

Introduction

Summary

I. The Downing Street Minutes and Deception, Manipulation, Torture, Retribution and Coverups in the Iraq War

II. Unlawful Domestic Surveillance and the Decline of Civil Liberties Under the Administration of George W. Bush

Addendum

Analysis

Recommendations and Conclusion

Endnotes

Legal Standards and Authorities

Major Reports

______________

Next Steps

1. Ask the media to cover this report.

2. Ask your Congress Member to sponsor H. Res. 635 to start an investigation.

3. Buy this report as a book. Pre-order, and ask your friends to do so, and get it on the best-seller lists. Buy it here: http://www.academychicago.com/GeorgeWBush.html.

Ron:

Appreciate your comments always.

Sometimes one gets the feeling life in America is being made up by art instead of the other way around.

This could be a bad sign with reality on losing ground.

Posted by: Fe at August 4, 2006 02:35 PM

I had that thought back when an actor became president... and I think it even more today, because only a carefully controlled message via the media could elevate the current dingleberry beyond anything other than laughable status.

... it's all about the bottom lyin.

Monkey:

Pray it doesn't get any worse. We may end up with less than a dingleberry next time around.

Here's something that's apropos for a Friday from one of my very favorite authors/actors/directors/comedians/intelligent humans...

Nice one, George
Those of us who support Armageddon have naturally been greatly cheered by way the US president has embraced our cause.

Terry Jones

Those of us who have long been supporters of Armageddon have naturally been greatly cheered by way the president of the United States has been embracing our cause. Our desire to bring chaos, death and destruction to a greater swathe of humanity has, in the past, often been frustrated by peacemakers and do-gooders of all shades of the political spectrum.

For too long, our aspirations have been derided and criticised. In fact, to be blunt, for more than two millennia we have had to put up with opprobrium and vilification, but now all that will be a thing of the past, for in George Bush we have found an ally - indeed, we have found a leader. A man who is prepared to place himself at the head of the forces of destruction and misery, and who is unafraid of the opinion of the rest of the world.

George Bush has finally put Armageddon firmly on the political agenda, and it is likely to stay there for the foreseeable future.

This means that we Armageddonists need keep to the shadows no longer. Bush and his colleagues in the White House have given us credibility and respectability. They have made our goal their goal, and death, disease, war and famine are now the most likely fate for more people in the Middle East than we Armageddonists had ever dared to hope for.

Enjoy the rest here ==>
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/terry_jones/2006/08/armageddonists_of_the_world_un.html

And here's a great LTE in the NYTimes...

To the Editor:

No words are strong enough to capture what is happening in Lebanon, Gaza and Israel. Yet the world cannot stay silent when hour after hour masses of men, women and children are dying or are fleeing destruction and death.

The agonizing themes of Jew against Muslim, Muslim against Jew must not be exploited as excuses for inhumanity.

Before the eyes of the world, humanity on all sides is being reduced to what Shakespeare called poor, bare, forked animals preying on each other like monsters of the deep.

Moderation in this struggle is dismissed as weakness. But if people cannot reassert it, the attractive slogans of violence will take over.

Is it too late for us to recognize that a moderate attitude is not a weak and spineless compromise? That it makes undeniably strong demands on honest feeling and pitilessly clear thought.

Diplomacy and declarations that only play for time are indefensible. The only way out of this devastation is if people in every country stand up, with passion and with strength, to reaffirm our common humanity by refusing all military solutions.

Leaders are there to find the ways. Our role across the world, regardless of race, religion or culture, is to cry, “Stop!”

Richard Axel, Nobel laureate, U.S.
Meena Alexander, poet, writer, India
Juliano Mer-Khamis, director, Freedom Theater of Jenin, from Israel
Daniel Barenboim, pianist, conductor, co-founder (with Edward W. Said) of the West-Eastern Divan Orchestra, Israel
George Bartenieff, actor, co-founder, Theater for the New City, U.S.
Martha Bragin, actor
Lakhdar Brahimi, U.N. envoy to Iraq (2004), Algeria
Peter Brook, director of the International Center for Theater Research, France
Hélène Cixous, writer, France
Lev Dodin, artistic director of Maly Drama Theater, St. Petersburg, Russia
Declan Donnellan, theater director, Britain
Costa-Gavras, filmmaker, Greece
Nadine Gordimer, Nobel laureate, writer, South Africa
Paul Greengard, Nobel laureate, U.S.
John Heilpern, theater critic, U.S.
Nicholas Hytner, director, National Theater of Great Britain
Eric Kandel, Nobel laureate, U.S.
Tony Kushner, playwright, U.S.
Michael Kustow, writer, producer, Britain
Karen Malpede, playwright, director, U.S.
D.H. Mehlem, writer, U.S.
Ariane Mnouchkine, theater director, France
Khalifa Natour, actor, Palestine
Amir Nizar Zuabi, theater director, Palestine
Nurit Peled-Elhanan, professor of education, joint winner of European Sakharov prize, Israel
Harold Pinter, Nobel laureate, playwright, Britain
Najla Said, actor, writer, founding member of Nibras, Arab-American theater collective, U.S.
Mariam Said, widow of Prof. Edward W. Said and vice president of the Barenboim-Said Foundation U.S.A., U.S.
Janet Suzman, actor, South Africa
Peter Shaffer, playwright, Britain
Pieter-Dirk Uys, satirist, playwright, South Africa
Torsten Wiesel, Nobel laureate, Sweden.
London, Aug. 3, 2006
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/04/opinion/l04mideast.html

"Success in modern issue advocacy requires organizations to educate and inform decision makers, community leaders, and the general public about the benefits of supporting their position. It is no longer enough just to have a traditional Washington presence in the form of a lobbyist."

~~ Message, Message, Message
~~ Marshall McLuhan, Lakoff, Gladwell, Orwell 101
~~ The bigger the brand, the tigher the message (pros and cons of a tight message, it's obvious effect, it's less obvious exclusions)
~~ Who runs the town's Chamber of Commerce? Who shows up at the town councils? Who organizes the community fairs? Who writes the newspaper editorials and LTE's? Who takes it upon themselves to counteract a huge "Talent" sign in their neighborhood by getting ahold of a huge McCaskill sign for their yard? (On my list of things to do) ;-)

Inch by inch, for me, it is all about grassroots. I know I can't battle the shear billions of dollars that go into monolithic brand promotion and protection, and since I wouldn't necessarily trust a counter-organization (absolute power corrupts absolutely), I believe it is work on the ground that might move the mountain. Eventually. In someone's lifetime.

Worthy work, imo, in any case.

"Are these behind closed doors lobbying and the intertwined use of a Public Relations firm and lobbying effecting our democracy?

What do you think?"

Whoops! The answer to Suz's question above is: yes.

pss. And art can't be corrupted. It might be bought, but the message of art stands by itself, open to each invididual's interpretation.

I feel very good about the state of art in America these days.

Job growth unexpectedly slows
Payroll gain of 113,000 misses forecasts for fourth straight month; unemployment rises; wages up.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/08/04/news/economy/jobs/index.htm?cnn=yes

Another one of those "no one could have anticipated" moments for this regime...

And, a common message, or finding common, in Stone's movie, can be a very, very good thing.

9/11 was quickly taken by the neocons, a fast grab that many millions of us battled in our communities. It was as cold, to me, as grave robbing. I was incensed. But lost that tug of war.

9/11 is back again, being reframed. So, neo and libs celebrate the movie, based on brand promoting or not, that's a good thing IF it allows people to individually, once again, revisit the message(s) of America, homeland, patriotism, flag, hope, etc. etc., and beging, once again, to discover what those (day I say) values or bedrock American issues really ARE.

Constrast and compare: are those bedrock issues what the neoconartists have told us, through their various brands and corporations? Or are we loosened a bit from the tie of fear to see for ourselves what values really look like.

Art will be interpreted by individuals. Intepretation and response simply can not be controlled, however tight the message, brand, or lie.
(forgive typos)

"I pray for the spirit world to heal my New Orleans" - Dr. John

True art lives.

Lieberman was just interviewed by Ed Schultz. He was asked if he agreed that Rumsfield should go. His answer: "I assumed he would leave after Bush was re elected in '04" He was then asked if he had a problem with pro hezbollah demonstrations in Iraq today. His answer, of course I don't agree with them but that is the basis of democracy and something that would not happen if Sadam were still in power.
I could not believe that Lieberman is still digging a hole 72 hours before his primary. He just really doesn't get it. He was given every opportunity by Ed to clarify his position about Iraq and the only thing he could come up with is that we are fighting for democracy and he assumed that Bush would let Rumsfield go.Liberman also talked about the great progress we are making in Iraq.

kj,

"9/11 was quickly taken by the neocons"

(funny that we're now talking over here rather than over there. . .)

The conservatives are terrible at governing, but much better at liberals at political street fighting. They had been waiting for a Pearl Harbor like event and were ready to take advantage, while liberals were seeking common ground and a rational response.

If Democrats had been in power instead of Republicans, they would have still taken control of the issue. Instead the message would have been about the failings of the Democrat government to pay attention to the warnings and keep the country safe.

A nonpolitical message for 9/11 would be to our benefit. Rather than using 9/11 to justify the pre 9/11 goals of the neocons, we need to look back to consider what really needs to be done to reduce the chances of being subjected to such attacks in the future.

The thing that I find refreshing about Stone's movie being hearlded by both neo's and lib's boils down to this:

For once we'll all be looking at the same thing.

The neoconartists have had great success in dividing the country into factions. Who watches Faux vs. who watches The Daily Show. We've been Balkanized.

"Liberman also talked about the great progress we are making in Iraq."

Progress? Did he talk about subjecting the country to a civil war, providing al Qaeda with new recruits and training ground, and strengthening Iran in the middle east? That's the only "progress" (along with unnecessary deaths and wasted tax money) which the war resulted in.

Any history buffs here? The Iraq war has got to be one of the worst blunders of all time. Off hand the only military blunders this bad I'm thinking of in recent years are Vietnam and Russia in Cheznia (and perhaps some of the late attempts of the Soviet Union to hold on to power).

Ron, yes @;-)

And: "If Democrats had been in power instead of Republicans, they would have still taken control of the issue. Instead the message would have been about the failings of the Democrat government to pay attention to the warnings and keep the country safe." ~~ in heartbeat!

And: "A nonpolitical message for 9/11 would be to our benefit. Rather than using 9/11 to justify the pre 9/11 goals of the neocons, we need to look back to consider what really needs to be done to reduce the chances of being subjected to such attacks in the future."~~ yes.

I tried to plow through the 911 Commission Report, but my tiny brain exploded at all the detail. So, for American Dummies like me, I would like to advocate for less concentrating on blame (Bush Inc. will be gone anyway) and more on what can be done today and tomorrow to prevent attacks in the future.

Ron, somewhere in all these boxes my copy of "March of Folly" by Barbara Tuckman (?) lives, and that might tell us where the ranking of the War in Iraq stands on the list of follies. :-|

The 9-11 movie has me perplexed. I saw the preview for it when I went to see An Inconvenient Truth. I bawled from the second the preview started until it was over, and decided that I personally am not ready to relive it - art or otherwise.

My husband would like me to go.

My concern on the political side is that it will be the perfect vehicle for the Republicans to start spouting off and blaming everything on September 11th again. And I think maybe that's why all the right wing organizations like it. It serves their purpose. It reminds everyone why they SAY we needed to go to war, and there are still too many people who believe them.

Kerry has won a legal victory against the Swift Boat Liars:

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=2274295

And... Ron, although I'm tired of even spelling the word "move," you know I'd follow you anywhere. Where else would I catch news about the Neo-Vorlons?

and Progressives are attacked for filing frivolous lawsuits? They sued JK for telling the truth about the Swiftboaters being Bush hacks and the film being produced by a disgraced producer, unbelievable? Truth is an absolute defense in such causes of actions. Its too bad that JK and Murtha don't file counter suits against these frivolous lawsuits. Its JK who should be filing a slander lawsuit.

Carol, I dunno, but I'm ready to fight again. We all looked at 9/11 as it happened, within a few hours the struggle to frame the day began. I was deeply involved in that struggle, which led right through the 2002 elections to March, 2003. (Actually, I started way before that, but who among us today admits they campained for Gore or Dukasis? LOL)

We (as a country) will be talking about the same day, the same searing images. For those who are up for it, and not everyone will be, there is a chance to bring that day into focus.

Right now, personally, I'm pumped. I've left a community and region of the country that strangled dissent voices; and although this region isn't blue, diversity at least exists. I'm hardened (in a good, fire/steel sort of way) by what happened to my husband and I in that community and I don't intend to lose that fire anytime soon.

We do what we can. War doesn't work. We can manifest that message. :-)

Hopeful OpEd piece by E.J. Dionne in the WaPo. (hat tip to DU)

The End Of the Right?
By E. J. Dionne Jr.
Friday, August 4, 2006; Page A17

Is conservatism finished?

What might have seemed an absurd question less than two years ago is now one of the most important issues in American politics. The question is being asked -- mostly quietly but occasionally publicly -- by conservatives themselves as they survey the wreckage of their hopes, and as their champions in the Republican Party use any means necessary to survive this fall's elections.

-snip-

The most obvious, outrageous and unprincipled spasm occurred last night when the Senate voted on a bill that would have simultaneously raised the minimum wage and slashed taxes on inherited wealth.

Rarely has our system produced a more naked exercise in opportunism than this measure. Most conservatives oppose the minimum wage on principle as a form of government meddling in the marketplace. But moderate Republicans in jeopardy this fall desperately wanted an increase in the minimum wage.

-snip-

On spending . . . well, on spending, incoherence and big deficits are the order of the day. Writing in National Review in May, conservatives Kate O'Beirne and Rich Lowry had one word to describe the Republican Congress's approach to the matter: "Incontinence."

In that important essay, O'Beirne and Lowry argued that the relevant question for conservatives may not be "Can this Congress be saved?" but "Is it worth saving?"

Full article here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/03/AR2006080301259.html?nav=hcmodule

kj,

Well over a thousand posts, and the one you remember is about the Neo-Vorlons?

(For those wondering, it was a post about J. Michael Straczynski’s proposals for revamping Star Trek. JMS, who previously did Babylon 5, had a proposal for Star Trek which was based around a group which sounded an awful lot like the Vorlons of B5. The post is at http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=3358 )

Ron, it's the little things. @;-)

Your Neo-Vorlons post holds the honor of almost, actually, nearly causing me to spill that precious first cup of coffee of the day.

(I'm still waiting for the Tassimo interface.)

Hey -

I went over to the DD to check out the Vorlons, and found a link to this - the ultimate in freeway blogging - Suz, you'll LOVE this.

http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/2006/07/best-impeach-ever.html#comments

kj,

If I set up a new blog, first priority will be to interface the blog with my Tassimo.

(Again to explain to everyone else, the Tassimo is a hot drink maker, including coffee, tea, espresso, and hot chocolate. Milk disks are also available. I figure that interfaced with a blog, readers could have a latte or mocha served while reading blog posts. Any techies who can get this figured out for me? I hear this was very big back in the days when the Vorlons ruled the Galaxy. Or perhaps we just need a replicator as on Star Trek The Next Generation.)

I could not believe that Lieberman is still digging a hole 72 hours before his primary. He just really doesn't get it. He was given every opportunity by Ed to clarify his position about Iraq and the only thing he could come up with is that we are fighting for democracy and he assumed that Bush would let Rumsfield go.Liberman also talked about the great progress we are making in Iraq.

Posted by: Ira at August 4, 2006 03:50 PM

Ira:

Lieberman's disconnect is Lamont's train to victory. Quite frankly, right now its a photo finish as to who is the more delusional--Joe or George. Money on that one is for Joe.

And believe me, I will be celebrating 8/8 when the CT primary is over.

Sen. Lautenberg just announced that if Lieberman loses on Tues by a significant %, that he expects Lieberman to end his Senate career and not run as an independent. I am sure that Lieberman will then join the Bush cabinet,his real home.

If Lieberman loses by a significant amount, his stock immediately falls and Lamot's rises. Although Lieberman did lead in the last 3-way poll I say, the situation will change radically if he loses badly.

Ron, I'll be there. Have given up the joe now and am on white or green jasmine tea exclusively. I may be your only customer for those brews. :-)

Didn't vote for Lieberman when he ran against Weicker, wouldn't vote for him now. Nor are any of my old CT friends.

And as for Stone's 9/11 movie, I doubt I will go see it. But I am pleased that it isn't being marginalized as Moore's F9/11 was.

Posted by: madame defarge at August 4, 2006 03:00 PM

Good to see Barenboim taking a stand. I never loved him as a conductor or pianist (his were slowest Goldberg Variations I ever heard...) but he's a born & bred Israeli, and his collaboration with Said suggests that he has a clue.

Posted by: kj at August 4, 2006 04:04 PM

The March of Folly was written just after Nam, so the Iraq war is not in the book. (I have it, too, somewhere in one of my boxes of books. I read it years and years ago when it first came out.)

MadameD
Stuck at the grindstone but appreciate the Guardian blog post & the one after it very much.

Also Ron
Thanks for the heads up on the antiSwiftboat victory - will follow that closely

hey KJ!
Thanks for mentioning McLuhan!

Sort of on topic...at least on the 9/11 theme. Here's an opinion piece by Sheldon Drobny, co-founder of Air America (who happens to live in my congressional district), discussing Gerald Posner's new book "Case Closed"... Drobny has some interesting points...

I really enjoy Countdown with Keith Olbermann. However, yesterday he had Gerald Posner as a guest to evaluate the recently released NORAD tapes on 9/11. Posner's conclusion was that the audio communications with NORAD proves that this was all about massive incompetence and had nothing to do with any conspiracy. The tapes clearly showed that everyone was confused and tardy in their responses to the 4 hijackings and that Bush did not give the "shoot down" order until all the airplanes had crashed.

This is essentially the same conclusion that the 9/11 Commission came to. The convenience about incompetence as an excuse is that by blaming everyone, no one is responsible.

Either Posner is naïve or is a willing supporter of the establishment. Even Congress voted in the late 70s that the assassination of Kennedy was probably a conspiracy and we will probably never know who did it.

I am a forensic accountant who is trained to "connect dots." Forensic work is always part science and part instinct. The ones with the good instincts evaluating empirical data are the best forensic professionals. People who are in forensic work can only be good if they can be objective about the failure of apparent human instincts such as the perception that the earth is flat. Proving the earth was round was counterintuitive to our instincts, but proven by science.

All you have to do is read PNAC, The Project For The New American Century. The writings of the neo-cons in the late 90s conform to the events on 9/11 and the necessity of a second "Pearl Harbor" to rally the American people to support the PNAC plan. Having reviewed the inconsistencies and contradictions of reports on 9/11, I have concluded that the 19 hijackers were really part of what they believed to be an Al-Qaeda funded operation. All 19 sincerely believed in what they were doing and the operation probably was funded by a real terrorist group. However, given the remarkable incompetence of the intelligence agencies and our air defense system, I have concluded that the 19 hijackers had inside help.

When you do forensic work, one of the main questions you ask is who benefits? The day after 9/11, Osama denied that he had anything to do with it. What possible motivation would he have to deny this? After a few days of U.S. accusations, he finally took credit for it. Anyone who believes that Al-Qaeda is a centralized terrorist organization with a network as advanced as the old Soviet Union is smoking something. The so-called Soviet cells of the 50s was a complete myth. Many of the members of the U.S. Communist Party were undercover FBI agents.

--snip--
We all know the world is not flat even though our senses tell us it is. It is equally true that our senses cannot accept the idea that people in our own government would run a renegade operation. Ronald Reagan felt the same way when the Iran/Contra operation was run from his own White House. Like Reagan, it takes a detached President like George Bush to let that happen.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sheldon-drobny/gerald-posner-on-keith-ol_b_26530.html

Riverbend has a new piece up today about saying goodbye to her freedom as a woman in Iraq now & saying goodbye to people who are leaving Iraq. The piece before this one, dated July 30, has her thoughts about Qana.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

DiAnne, McLuhan is the master!
Nonny O, I doubt I ever read Tuckman's book.
From what I remember of the 9/11 Commission Report (which probably isn't much), there was time for BushInc to respond to the crisis. Norad's confusion was real, but that doesn't mean there wasn't time for someone other than Cheney to issue the "shoot down," or any other, order. Bush was, imo, deliberately kept in the dark about the events as they were happening. But I'm not going to go there re: who to blame. To me, that is quabbles about the past and time has, if nothing else, excellerated since September 11, 2001.

accelerated

Awesome to see so many familiar names back in the said'll again.

Good people of earth, unite.

Last political bumpersticker spotted before leaving Rural Rural Red:

"Had enough?
VOTE DEMOCRAT!"

Monkey, I am remiss. This post of yours:

"I pray for the spirit world to heal my New Orleans" - Dr. John

True art lives.

brought such a smile. Thank you.

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- Respondents to a CNN poll released Friday were nearly evenly split on President Bush's handling of the current conflict in the Middle East.

Forty-six percent of 1,047 Americans participating in the telephone poll, conducted by Opinion Research Corporation for CNN, said they disapproved of Bush's handling of the crisis, while 43 percent said they approved. Ten percent had no opinion.

Overall, Bush's job approval rating continues a slow climb, but the majority of Americans -- 59 percent -- said they disapprove of how Bush is handling his job as president. Forty percent said they approved.

The approval numbers are a jump from previous polls. In April, only 32 percent said they approved of the way Bush was handling his job, and 60 percent disapproved. Since then, his approval numbers have been creeping upward.

Sixty-two percent of respondents said they disapproved of Bush's handling of the situation in Iraq -- tying poll results in May for the most respondents who disapprove. Another 59 percent said they disapproved of Bush's handling of the economy.

About half the respondents -- or about 524 people -- were asked about Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Sixty-two percent said they approved of her job performance, and 59 percent said they were "confident" or "somewhat confident" about her ability to handle the Middle East situation.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/04/bush.poll/index.html

Craq kills.

Dang, I went & ruined your grin so fast... sorry kj.

Will the sleeping giant ever wake up?

Monkey, still grinning. The sleeping giant sure hates to be awake. It's up to us to steal the jewels while he/she sleeps. ;-)

monkey...

Better protect your family jewels...

Hi K.J. and Ron,

It is good to see you here!

K.J., so you finally got out of Rural Red Red?
I am curious to know where you are now.

I am leaving ex-Rural Red Red (they are now purple, leaning toward blue - everybody I speak to has had enough of this regime) next week, and going metropolitan again!

Looks like we both will have more opportunities to team with others to make a difference.

"Liberman also talked about the great progress we are making in Iraq."

Progress? Did he talk about subjecting the country to a civil war, providing al Qaeda with new recruits and training ground, and strengthening Iran in the middle east? That's the only "progress" (along with unnecessary deaths and wasted tax money) which the war resulted in.

Any history buffs here? The Iraq war has got to be one of the worst blunders of all time. Off hand the only military blunders this bad I'm thinking of in recent years are Vietnam and Russia in Cheznia (and perhaps some of the late attempts of the Soviet Union to hold on to power).

Posted by: Ron Chusid at August 4, 2006 03:59 PM

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Is Lamont really beating Joe by 10 points? I read a poll report that said Lamont had opened up a large lead over Lieberman - over 10 points - and that Republicans were now actively campaigning for Lieberman in the primary...

What do you think?
Posted by Suz Krueger at August 4, 2006 09:39 PM

I categorically REFUSE to jump on the morbid 9/11 faux patriotic bandwagon. I will not go see the movie.

I'm over the shock and grief of 9/11, have been for a very long time. I honor the memory of the dead, but I've moved on, dealing with reality. It seems the neoCons are not ready to deal with reality. The mention 9/11 in a regular litany, long somber martyr-like faces and all - regularly - followed in the next sentence with references to 'ter-rists' and the 'war on ter-ra' which seems to be designed to keep the sheeple scared witless and voting for neoCons. Enough.

I fail to see how being "entertained" with a movie about 9/11 will help people grasp the fact that the criminals who committed the hijackings and flying the planes into buildings died with their victims, and face the fact that there is no one to prosecute for their crimes. There is no definitive closure to senseless acts of violence; my generation dealt with that when JFK was assassinated. We saw Jack Ruby shoot Lee Harvey Oswald on live TV, but that wasn't closure because there was no trial for the murderer. It just has to be accepted that absolute closure is sometimes just impossible in some situations.

Making a movie about 9/11 is just exploitation, pure and simple.

Posted by: kj at August 4, 2006 05:48 PM

If DumDum had read his 6 Aug 2001 PDB... er, if he had enough smarts to read and comprehend what he was reading, that is... I think 9/11 might have been averted. Of course, to comprehend such things as a PDB, the "leader" of this country has to have some intelligence, and we all know W has none. That's just my humble opinion.

9/11 happened on his watch and it's the most fortunate day in the life of W. He got to be de facto dictator after being appointed to his office by SCOTUS (the ratings he had just before that day were tanking, so it brought his ratings up by a week later), and he got to be the 'war president' he wanted to be remembered as - and he was the one who had to start the war to get to that point. What more can an egomaniacal de facto dictator ask?

MILITARY WASTE IN OUR DRINKING WATER
Astra Taylor, Sunaura Taylor, AlterNet
The U.S. military is poisoning the very citizens it is supposed to protect in the name of national security.
http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/39723/

BECHTEL TAKES A HIT FOR WAR PROFITEERING
Antonia Juhasz, AlterNet
Government auditors who canceled Bechtel's $50 million contract will soon find reasons to cancel the company's $2.85 billion Iraq contracts.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/39860/

COMPUTER HACKERS SHARE THEIR SECRETS
Liz Cole, AlterNet
The sixth annual Hackers Conference explored privacy, coupons, intelligence and Scooter Libby.
http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/39825/
{{{Oooohhhh.... I wish one of them had told the American public about how to hack into e-voting computers...!}}}

U.S. to Supply Food with One Hand, Arms with Other
By Thalif Deen
The United States says it stands ready to provide food, medicine and humanitarian assistance to the thousands of internally displaced Lebanese caught in the crossfire. But Washington has also decided to accelerate the supply of lethal weapons to Israel -- "perhaps intended to kill the very Lebanese the United States is planning to feed and shelter," says one Arab diplomat at the United Nations.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14348.htm

The neocons' next war
By Sidney Blumenthal
By secretly providing NSA intelligence to Israel and undermining the hapless Condi Rice, hardliners in the Bush administration are trying to widen the Middle East conflict to Iran and Syria, not stop it.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14351.htm

New poll shows Lieberman losing ground:
Millionaire businessman Ned Lamont has extended his lead against veteran Sen. Joe Lieberman less than a week before Connecticut's Democratic primary, according to a new poll released Thursday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060803/ap_on_el_se/connecticut_senate_1

Iran: The Next War

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/10962352/iran_the_next_war

Posted by: madame defarge at August 4, 2006 06:13 PM
~~ Not the family jewels! The jewels of the sleeping beast. heheh

Posted by: NonnyO at August 4, 2006 07:18 PM
Posted by: NonnyO at August 4, 2006 07:26 PM
~~Sing it, sister!

Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at August 4, 2006 06:54 PM
~~We should talk. The experience in RRR, while claustrophobic to the extreme, had it's good spots, and definately will serve as fuel for the future. What about you? You're going back to a metro area? We moved within the state, but to a town with about 6,000 more people. We're near a major airbase.

Truth, Plus, we've lived here before and there are already connections made with several groups in town... two publishers, a free newspaper (I think still in operation), a couple of coffee houses and a tea house that has been sort of a town gathering spot since my husband was in college, a peace group, and some active grassroots organizations. A university as well. Still small, but you'll see a long-hair and a biker and an Africian American and an Asian and a professor and a combat veteran all downtown on a single day. And licenses plates from out-of-state. Diversity. I have hope.

It ain't Boston, but it's its own tiny Mecca, at least to me. Finally *whew* Downtown is alive and well, also. Renovated and active. It all ain't just a Walmart.

Now I want to go re-read this: Posted by: NonnyO at August 4, 2006 07:18 PM

We WILL take the images, slogans, and our Constitution back, because the reality of what we've done to others since that day is so very far out of balance from what was done to the USA.

REP JOE SCHWARZ IS STOOD UP BY MCCAI;

RALLY FLOPS:

Our protest got some local coverage here:

http://noise.typepad.com/counterculture_criteria/

I've seen Stone's Alexander several times now, and I still can't figure if Stone admires Alexander or dislikes him. If I had to choose, I'd say that Stone is into him - the way that one egomaniac understands another. The film ends with Anthony Hopkins waxing poetically about Alexander, and then Stone cuts to that mythic image, accompanied by the rousing music.

This was definitely not Platoon - which I watched again the other night, and continue to be moved by.

Posted by: kj at August 4, 2006 08:14 PM

I forgot to mention, also... I believe movies made about 9/11 exploit the grief of family and friends who lost loved ones that day. To be "entertained" by vicariously "enjoying" a movie about that day seems rather like a danse macabre. I didn't know anyone who died anywhere on 9/11, nor do I know anyone who knew anyone who did.

I won't get on any faux patriotic bandwagons in some sense of misguided "honor" to the dead via the art of entertaiment. It would only make me feel guilty for vicariously "celebrating" the most fortunate day in W's residency to spend money to be "entertained" by tragedy, and that I just can. not. do!

Brits have had enough
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,1837487,00.html

Get the t-shirt too
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1214560.ece

Ceasefire

Leftward Ho
(Springsteen, Neil Young, Dixie Chicks)
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=45198

3 "child's eye" movies about Iran
http://www.seattleweekly.com/film/0631/bazi.php

My Al Gore party for tomorrow is getting really big! Gather for Aghan food & then
see "An Inconvenient Truth"

"Hurt"
as performed by the one and only,
Johnny Cash
(black is in, miss ya man)

I hurt myself today
to see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
the only thing that's real
the needle tears a hole
the old familiar sting
try to kill it all away
but I remember everything
what have I become?
my sweetest friend
everyone I know
goes away in the end
and you could have it all
my empire of dirt

I will let you down
I will make you hurt

I wear this crown of thorns
upon my liar's chair
full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
beneath the stains of time
the feelings disappear
you are someone else
I am still right here

what have I become?
my sweetest friend
everyone I know
goes away in the end
and you could have it all
my empire of dirt

I will let you down
I will make you hurt

if I could start again
a million miles away
I would keep myself
I would find a way

Posted by: DiAnne at August 4, 2006 10:28 PM

... and who you callin' Ho?

Heaux!

Monkey
I was wondering if you'd say that!

Posted by: DiAnne at August 4, 2006 10:32 PM

So was I.

Nonny O, I agree with you. I couldn't/wouldn't put up a flag during the days after 9/11/01 for exactly the reasons you said above. I had no feelings of "patriotism" whatsoever. September 11th could not be colored red, white and blue. The war cry (bomb Afghanistan!) began immediately- that very day- among people I knew. I couldn't believe their reaction to the horror was to bring more horror to a people who were already suffering and had been bombed to smithereeens.

But I also think Oliver Stone (well-known crazy liberal) creating a movie about 9/11 (and one was going to be made by someone), instead of being a rallying cry for the Bushies and warmongers, might be a chance to take back the reality of what happened not only that day, but all the days since.

I don't think this country has dealt with the day nor looked clearly our response to the tragedy. We've shoved it here and there and everywhere and projected our feelings onto Saddam and Iraq.

We went war-drunk and have been on a bender ever since.

Anything that might allow us to look at that day again and talk about it... in terms of what this country was founded on... might very well be a good thing.

Cock-eyed optimist. At some point with me, that's all that's left.

Afghan food and Al Gore's movie. That's BLUE. :-)

G'nite, Gracie @;-)

Very Interesting...

Tomorrow's NY Times

[commentary by me]

PLAN B FOR IRAQ

THOMAS FRIEDMAN, NYT

It is now obvious that we are not midwifing democracy in Iraq. We are baby-sitting a civil war.

{Tom wakes up..rubs eyes, looks around]

When our top commander in Iraq, Gen. John Abizaid, tells a Senate Committee, as he did yesterday, that “the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I’ve seen it,” it means that three years of efforts to democratize Iraq are not working.

{And the clue was??]

That means “staying the course” is pointless, and it’s time to start thinking about Plan B — how we might disengage with the least damage possible.

[You mean, cut and run??]

It seemed to me over the last three years that, even with all the Bush team’s missteps, we had to give our Iraqi partners a chance to produce a transitional government, then write a constitution, then hold an election and then, finally, put together their first elected cabinet. But now they have done all of that — and the situation has only worsened.

[Maybe because we refused to actually let them work out the reconciliation process themselves...We had to delete four key points. Is there no situation so bad we cannot make it worse just by showing up--and HELPING???]

The Sunni jihadists and Baathists are as dedicated as ever to making this U.S.-Iraqi democracy initiative fail. That, and the runaway sectarian violence resulting from having too few U.S. troops and allowing a militia culture to become embedded, have made Iraq a lawless mess.

[Some of us have been pointing this out for some time.]

Yes, I believe it was and remains hugely important to try to partner with Iraqis to create one good example in the heart of the Arab world of a decent, progressive state, where the politics of fear and tribalism do not reign — the politics that has produced all the pathologies of unemployment, religious intolerance and repression that make the Middle East so dangerous to itself and others.

[How could the politics of fear NOT triumph here? We have been the promoters of this. We exported fear and violence to them. Our approach was heavy-handed and provocative. We are piss-poor models of a decent, progressive people, after all]

But the administration now has to admit what anyone — including myself — who believed in the importance of getting Iraq right has to admit: Whether for Bush reasons or Arab reasons, it is not happening, and we can’t throw more good lives after good lives.

[Beginning to sound ominously familiar...]

Since the Bush team never gave us a Plan A for Iraq, it at least owes us a Plan B. It’s not easy. Here are my first thoughts about a Plan B and some of the implications.

[YOUR first thoughts, Tom? I thought I heard these same thoughts at Georgetown University, some ten months ago...delivered by a former Presidential candidate]

I think we need to try a last-ditch Bosnia-like peace conference that would bring together all of Iraq’s factions and neighbors. Just as Bosnia could be solved only by an international peace force and the Dayton conference — involving Russia, Europe and the U.S., the powers most affected by Bosnia’s implosion — the civil war in Iraq can be quelled only by a coalition of those most affected by Iraq’s implosion: the U.S., Russia, Europe, Japan, India, China, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Syria and Jordan. As in Bosnia, any solution will have to be some form of federalism, a division of oil wealth and policing by an international force, where needed.

[Hmm. yes, we read the same speech, did we?]

For such a conference to come about, though, the U.S. would probably need to declare its intention to leave. Iraqis, other Arabs, Europeans and Chinese will get serious about helping to salvage Iraq only if they believe we are leaving and it will damage their interests.

What would be the consequences of leaving without such a last-ditch peace effort, or if it just fails? Iraq could erupt into a much wider civil war, drawing in its neighbors. Or, Iraqis might stare into this abyss and actually come to terms with each other on their own. Our presence may be part of the problem. It’s hard to know.

[No, it's not. They have told us this. Over and over.]

If Iraq opts for all-out civil war, its two million barrels a day will be off the market and oil could go above $100 a barrel. (That would, however, spur more investment in alternative fuels that could one day make us independent of this volatile region.)

Some fear that Iran will be the winner. But will it? Once we are out of Iraq, Iran will have to manage the boiling pot next door. That will be a huge problem for Iran. The historical enmity toward Iran by Iraqi Arabs — enmity temporarily focused on us — will re-emerge. And Iran will also have to compete with its ally Syria for influence in Iraq.

Yes, the best way to contain Iran would have been to produce a real Shiite-led democracy in Iraq, exposing the phony one in Tehran. But second best is leaving Iraq. Because the worst option — the one Iran loves — is for us to stay in Iraq, bleeding, and in easy range to be hit by Iran if we strike its nukes.

Finally, the war in Iraq has so divided us at home and abroad that leaving, while bringing other problems, might also make it easier to build coalitions to deal with post-U.S. Iraq, Iran, Hezbollah and Syria. All these problems are connected. We need to deal with Iran and Syria, but from a position of strength — and that requires a broad coalition.

[Coalition. Coalition...that sounds REALLY familiar. I suppose he means a REAL one, as JK suggested. Not the pathetic little force Bush et al put together.]

The longer we maintain a unilateral failing strategy in Iraq, the harder it will be to build such a coalition, and the stronger the enemies of freedom will become.

[Welcome to the reality-based community, Tom. We missed you. Try to acknowledge your sources however. You owe the man that, at least.]

Posted by: Ira at August 4, 2006 03:50 PM

I heard that interview too. Absolutely disgusting.

Lieberman is a Bush Democrat, plain and simple. And Bush Democrats are killing the Democratic Party AND the progressive movement. In fact, I left the Democratic Party myself and turned independent, because the party was not doing a good enough job of weeding these guys out and standing up for its core values.

I was, however, dismayed to hear that Ned Lamont was more Republican on healthcare issues than Lieberman. This is troubling to me. I was already having another upset day over the healthcare issue - and this?

Anyone in irc? So far it's sparrow, abq, and nolie. Join us soon. (One...sparrow, is about to drop.)

Posted by: ralpheh at August 4, 2006 09:34 PM

Ralph,

Just got home from a long day out and about...just in time to hear a canned speech from McCain for Schwartz. If I were borderline, McCains 'reading' wouldn't have inspired me to pushing a button for Schwartz

Karen
Love the system of providing commentary for Friedman!
I was thinking of doing that for a Charles Krauthammer I read today in the Everett Herald but where would I start?!

Stirling Newberry | The Revolution Is Not Being Televised
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080406A.shtml
"The new politics has consistently selected politicians of a particular type, with a particular personality. The type is not the true outsider who comes in with completely radical notions about the system but, instead, the intellectual maverick who has risen within the system and who has succeeded by 'thinking outside the box,'" writes Stirling Newberry.

Specter's NSA Plan Hits Snag
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080406B.shtml
Specter's White House-endorsed plan to formally legalize the National Security Agency's warrantless surveillance program ran into more political problems yesterday in the Senate as Democrats successfully maneuvered to block a committee vote on the proposal.

John Conyers | The Constitution in Crisis
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080406R.shtml
Congressman John Conyers released the final version of his report today, the "Constitution in Crisis." The report, which is some 350 pages in length and is supported by more than 1,400 footnotes, compiles the accumulated evidence that the Bush administration has thumbed its nose at our nation's laws, and the Constitution itself.

Congressmen Question Oil Windfall
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080406K.shtml
Two congressmen said Thursday that someone at the Interior Department may have deliberately removed provisions from offshore drilling contracts, giving oil companies a multibillion-dollar windfall.

Sea Urchins Dying off California Coast
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/080406EB.shtml
Hundreds of dead or dying purple sea urchins have washed up into tide pools at a Southern California marine refuge center in recent days, but no one is certain what is killing them.

World Must Race to Develop Green Energy
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/080406EC.shtml
An urgent project on the scale of the Apollo moon landings is needed to boost research into green energy sources and save the planet from environmental disaster, according to Britain's top scientist.

EPA to Ban One Pesticide, Lets 32 Others Stay in Use
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/080406HA.shtml
Nearing the end of a 10-year review of all pesticides, the US Environmental Protection Agency plans to ban a farm chemical that has tainted water and proved deadly to birds, but the agency approved continued use of 32 other widely used insecticides.

Blair, Olmert and Bush are murderers
By George Galloway MP
George Bush, with Tony Blair at his heel, is backing Israel to the hilt because the US wants Hizbollah’s resistance in Lebanon smashed as a prelude to an attack on Iran. In Washington, Blair alluded to such a war.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14376.htm

Petty officer held in secret for 4 months:
A petty officer has been in the Norfolk Naval Station brig for more than four months facing espionage, desertion and other charges, but the Navy has refused to release details of the case.
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=108646&ran=180358

Robert C. Koehler | Blowback From a Bad War
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080406N.shtml
"And where is it that the Vice Lords meet the Aryan Nation? Why, in Baghdad, of course - where, in one of the less obvious unanticipated consequences of W's disastrous war, potential domestic terrorists and 'army of one' nutjobs are getting top-notch weapons instruction and plenty of target practice. It's sure to come in handy when they get home," writes Robert C. Koehler.

Bombing is backed by most American voters
From Tom Baldwin in Washington
ISRAEL’s military campaign in southern Lebanon is still being backed by most American voters, according to a survey published yesterday that shows public opinion in the US once again sharply at odds with views in Europe.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14365.htm
My comment on the blog section for this article:
What kind of push-polling did they do to get the numbers to come out that over 50% of the people they polled approve of war - any war, anywhere, any time???

What was the exact wording of the poll question???

They did not ask me. I do not approve of this war.

I also never approved the Iraq war based on LIES, and I questioned going into Afghanistan, and believe that as long as they let OBL go at Tora Bora that we should have pulled out then.

WHY must bully-boys disguised as little men always have to start a war to prove their inadequate manhood?!?!?

Posted by: karen at August 4, 2006 10:44 PM

Brilliant commentary!!! Send that to Friedman in an email.... :-)

I used to have an email address for Friedman, but it's not on this machine. Maybe the laptop.

He's one of those writers at the Times who apparently isn't interested in feedback. He once published his Times' email address in a column, and shortly after asked readers to stop writing him.

Whenever I've wanted to contact Friedman, I've used snail mail:

The New York Times
229 West 43rd Street
New York, NY 10036

Matthew Carnicelli
I used to write to David Brooks all the time. I told one columnist (very conservative Hispanic guy - can't remember name) that every time I read something he wrote I felt profoundly depressed. I also found that if you compliment some part of their column first, then offer criticism, their ego may compell them to answer (& to read on). Where do these people come from?! Wonder if it would be good to hound Editors too? Advertisers?
Too little news, too much commentary.

By the way, I found something in my hard copy of The Progressive, so I'll copy some.

http://www.freepress.com
Founded to engage citizens in media policymaking. As a leader of the growing media reform movement, Free Press is working to roll back media consolidation; bolster public broadcasting, promote Internet feedom and affordable Inernet access; and make media reform a bonafide political issue in America.

US Interests On Line In Iraq
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/04/AR2006080400799.html

This article is 20 hours old and it's so depressing I'm going back to bed. My reading of it is that we've lost the Iraq war but we're going to have a huge bloody operation coming up in Baghdad. It's considered pivotal since controlling Baghdad is essential to controlling Iraq. But Baghdad is made up of Shiites, Sunnis, Kurds & Christians who have essentially been warring since the mosque bombing a few months ago. & we were supposed to start pulling out, but we're going in deeper.

Then there is the obligatory passage about how people will be won over because they're impressed by the military force. (That's the same way the Lebanese are supposed to be won over by seeing Israeli force. People are supposed to blame terrorists for making their lives miserable and then turn to the military to protect them. It's the same logic they try to use on us here in the US).

I woke up thinking about how the Army is so desperate that they'll gladly accept a 42 year old Aryan Brotherhood guy with ADHD. Don't we spend more on military than the next 40 countries put together? Something like that.

Ok here we go (Wikipedia):

The current (2005) United States military budget is larger than the military budgets of the next twenty biggest spenders combined, and six times larger than China's, which places second. The United States and its close allies are responsible for approximately two-thirds of all military spending on Earth (of which, in turn, the U.S. is responsible for two-thirds), and spend 57 times more than the seven so-called "rogue" nations combined (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria). Military spending accounts for more than half of the United States' federal discretionary spending, which is all of the U.S. government's money not spoken for by pre-existing obligations.[1]

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956 billion.

Addendum:

Finally, it must be stressed that the recent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are funded outside the Federal Budget (i.e. are paid for through supplementary spending bills) and are therefore external to the military budget figures listed above. In addition, the United States has long had a history of black budget military spending which is not listed as Federal spending and is not included in published military spending figures. Thus, the true amount spent by the United States on military spending is much higher than the figures maintained in the Federal Budget.

(head goes back under pillow)

"(head goes back under pillow)"

Sure feels like the only safe place some days.

mornin' lou... fresh white jasmine brewed... instant zen. @;-)

This diary could use a recommend:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/8/5/114621/5774

New York Times: The Sound of One Domino Falling
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080506Y.shtml
It's been obvious for years that Donald Rumsfeld is in denial of reality, but the defense secretary now also seems stuck in a time warp," writes the New York Times. "Americans who once expected the Pentagon to win the war in Iraq have now been reduced to waiting for an indication that at least someone is minding the store."

It ain't Boston, but it's its own tiny Mecca, at least to me. Finally *whew* Downtown is alive and well, also. Renovated and active. It all ain't just a Walmart.

Posted by: kj at August 4, 2006 08:23 PM

Ha ha, KJ!

Maybe you will have the best of two worlds at your new location! Some diversity and groups to team with, with a small town feel. I wish you the best!

Yes, I am going back to an area that has almost a half million people in it's valley. When I grew up there, there were only 10,000 people there. So I too will have diversity once again....

We SHOULD talk, because sounds like we have both been surrounded by farmers the past few years. Nothing against farmers, mind you, but social interaction has been a "tad" stifled. (When younger we used to get behind an older couple driving their car very slow and say "Oh, Mildred....look at the corn grow." thinking it was a joke. That's actually the way it is here. If I see ONE MORE guy with a cap driving a pick-up truck or a tractor!!! ;-D

It is so good to see you guys here, and to get your input. Sometimes I learn best by the commentary of the bloggers here.

Sorry I didn't answer before, been very busy (as I am sure you can imagine).

K.J.,

Oh, yes, and although I won't be moving to New York City (which I would love) it still will be a reverse culture shock for me for a while.

I'm afraid along with it's ills, as you say, living in the country has it's own charm. The quiet, and the pace lends itself to alot of beauty and peace, and the time to enjoy it.

Truth, I think we have some friends in common who could give you my email addy. We really should talk. The experience in RRR is one that I want to process as quickly as possible... as in, of course there is value in sh*t! Some people call it gold! (fertilizing manure).

Sounds like you are moving to a valley I might have lived in during the last '80's... lots of avocados and wine and orchards?

The last 8 or 9 months in RRR were an added bonus, as I got to meet another class of people besides the ones running the county. :-) I got to meet the people who wanted to impeach the current resident of our White House. Some of them minus a few teeth, minus health care, and mad as hell.