Morning Q&A

How about weekend voting, over both days to give citizens the maximum chance to participate in the electoral process.

I don't know about mandatory voting. After digesting the polls that preceded the 2004 election, I'd rather have misinformed citizens stay home than exercise the franchise.

"If we can get a fair voting system in Iraq, why can't we get one here?"

Because US citizens are too apt to give our elected officials the benefit of the doubt, even when we know they are lying through their teeth. It is a dangerous form of political correctness.

"What's it gonna take for people to realize this is a serious problem?"

You sitting them down and telling them, in exactly those words.

"Where the media? "

Quietly cashing in checks written in tax payer dollars. A trillion dollar propaganda budget goes far in a world of cheap whores.

"Why is it so hard to get people interested in this subject? Is it because they feel like their vote doesn't matter anyway? "

That is EXACTLY why, because we all know for a FACT that our votes do not count unless those in power want them too.

"Even the hard core activists seem to snooze at the subject. How do we make this issue interesting and engaging to people? "

Because 'hard core activists' by definition, have an agenda, and they are less worried about freeing slaves than they are with positioning themselves to be the next slavemaster.

Make it interesting by showing how it directly impacts them. Make it personal, and people will do the right thing when confronted with the truth.

When you trust the PEOPLE to make the decisions, they will earn that trust.

'Hard core activists and leaders' need sheep, not thinkers who are trustworthy all on their own.

"And what about mandatory voting?"

Love the idea. I am all for it.

Actually, if you really wanted to shake up the system, here's an idea that I considered a few years back.

It has no chance of happening at the present moment, for reasons that will be immediately apparent.

Give voters the chance to simply vote "NO"; that is, if you don't want to vote for any candidate, you vote NO.

If the "no" votes win a plurality in any race, you have a new special election in 60 days in which no candidate who ran in the previous election can participate. In a worst case scenario, involving multiple rejections in successive special elections, the incumbent stays in office until a winner is declared.

Obviously, the political parties would be totally against this system because it would minimize their ability to control or manipulate the process, through the primary system. As would be big-time campaign donors, who would see their financial investment in a horse flushed down the toilet, and with it, any chance of seeing a return on their money (a return that they perhaps shouldn't have been expecting in the first place).

This system would force candidates to run largely positive campaigns, and to stand for things that people actually wanted - since campaigns that were disgustingly negative would likely lead to "NO" outcomes, and the hitting of the reset button.

It would take away the excuse from the electorate that they couldn't make a difference in the process, and really didn't have a say in the outcome.

You know, I thought I came here to update yall on Alines case.

About 4 bombshells dropped throughout late yesterday afternoon. I thought I would let yall know, and it would take away some..nervous energy. But I do not know if I should write this out, not here. We are back to the whispers again.

What is happening is literally unbelievable. I do not want to believe it. Everyone is afraid.

This is becoming a very serious situation, and I will not lie, I am scared.

We do not know how to make it stop.

Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at September 21, 2006 09:03 AM

Good point...! I also wouldn't mind being able to fill in the oval next to "vote of no confidence!" :-)

People in all states MUST also ALL have:

Easy voter registration... and...

PAPER ballots that can be recounted in a contested election...!

Totally spoiled here because one can even find voter registration forms in the phone book, and if necessary, one can register to vote on election day itself at the precinct if one is a new resident in the area and hasn't had time to send in a voter registration form (with proof of residency - ID - driver's license or official photo ID for those who do not have DL's - and/or friend or relative to vouch for residence location and/or something like a utility bill with name and current address on it). If one has already snail-mailed their voter registration form (from phone book, wherever forms are available), the name is already on the computer printout at the appropriate precinct. There is a residency requirement for people who have just moved into the state, but I forget what it is now - it's only a few weeks though.

I've been registered at the same precinct for years. When I walk into the voting place, I'm asked if I'm registered, I say yes, they ask if I've moved, I say no, they ask my name, find it in the computer printout, I sign next to my name, get handed a paper ballot, and then go vote. Since I'm already registered (no need to re-register every year), they don't even ask for my ID (altho I always have it with me since picture ID is required to write checks at stores and I never go anywhere without my purse). When I'm done voting, I put my PAPER ballot into the scanner, get my "I Voted" sticker, and I'm out the door in less than 15 minutes.

When I read about all the rigamarole people in other states have to go through, it just boggles my mind...!!!

Posted by: Christy at September 21, 2006 09:03 AM

Take a deep breath, and keep on fighting.

xo

I don't know about mandatory voting. After digesting the polls that preceded the 2004 election, I'd rather have misinformed citizens stay home than exercise the franchise.

Posted by: Cyrano at September 21, 2006 08:36 AM

------------------

And that, right there, is precisely why the founders gifted us with the seemingly-bizarre conceptual construct known as the Electoral College.

Posted by: Christy at September 21, 2006 09:03 AM

Oh dear, Christy. I'm sending lots of positive thoughts and vibes your way.

Does your lawyer have any recommendations?

Sunshine is always good -- make sure that any of the reporters that have been following the story are up to date on what's happening.

And take care - you're doing a good thing for Aline and for your family.

Clinton this morning on Today was awesome:

He talked or did not talk about Hililary running as the case may be my favorite line came when Meridith asked him if she would run and he said he did not know, she then asked would he know lol and he said he kind of thought he would lol, But that wasnt my favorite line, she then asked about all the attacks that will come if she does on both her and him and he said this, (paraphasing here) If the other side wanted to spend their time and money rehashing everything that has already been out there they could, however they better be prepared to under go the same kind of scrutiny, because they have been getting a pass when they attacked Democrats, they wouldnt be this time.

Now I have said before I would not vote for Hiliary but I have to tell you if I knew we had a candidate any candidate that was going to hit as hard as the Republicans have been hitting us for stupid stuff not only would I vote but I would work till I passed out from exhausten for them. I learned a lot from watching Kerry get beat, one thing is no attack can be taken lying down.

Posted by: Otter at September 21, 2006 11:05 AM

You, sir, are absolutely on target. That, and the fact that Senators were selected by State Legislatures, not direct election, until the mid-19th century.

It may be heresy to even make this point, but Alexander Hamilton argued in the Constitutional Convention that the people would not have the attention span to focus on electoral politics every few years, and hence it was best to elect Presidents for life! His solution was so bizarre that it was dismissed by the Convention, and largely buried by historians - but his insight about the attention span of the public may have been uncannily prescient.

If the weak point of any democratic system is its citizens, the solution can only be the promulgation of a culture that celebrates intellectual development and civic responsibility.

TY yall.

DW, our lawyer is ...They are neck deep in it now and still unafraid, I just got off the phone with them, and they are very good at this so far. I will not say what they say but they understand this case extreamly well in a very short period of time.

All the first rounds of requests for documents/info has been denied or ignored, so the next step is coming up. And I do believe that means Federal Court since this is a Civil Rights case.

After yesterday, it is all about to come out. We can prove the overall theory of the case.

And I am no longer sure Robert Charles Browne had much to do with it. I am not sure of anything anymore. None of us are.

The rumor is Kerwin Brown served as sheriff for 28 years, and left with 26 unsolved murders to his credit. TWENTY SIX.

That were known.

Christy, as they like to say down where Ann Richards came from: "Once the sh*t is out of the bull, it's mighty hard to put it back."

Hang in there, good luck, and be sure to keep us posted. We're all pulling for you here... you and Aline both.

May God, Himself have mercy on that old sweetheart Ann Richards.

She accomplished an amazing thing. A politician that will sincerely be missed.

AIDS testing recommended for most Americans
Government wants routine screening for all between ages 13 and 60

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14938109/

Iraq says kidnappers use victims as unwitting bombers
POSTED: 12:26 p.m. EDT, September 21, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) -- Insurgents are no longer using just volunteers to drive suicide car bombs but are instead kidnapping people with their cars, rigging the vehicles with explosives, and blowing them up remotely, the Interior Ministry said Thursday.

In what appears to be one of the newest developments in the deadly war waged by the insurgency, the ministry said those who are kidnapped do not know their car has been loaded with explosives when they are released.

"According to our intelligence information, recent car bomb explosions targeting checkpoints and public places have nothing to do with (traditional) terrorist operations," the ministry said in an announcement.

It said that first "a motorist is kidnapped with his car. They then booby trap the car without the driver knowing. Then the kidnapped driver is released and threatened to take a certain road."

The kidnappers then follow the car and when the unwitting victim "reaches a checkpoint, a public place, or an army or police patrol, the criminal terrorists following the driver detonate the car from a distance."

The announcement did not provide any further details and there was no one at the ministry available for further comment.

There was no immediate reply from the U.S. military on the announcement.

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/21/iraq.main.ap/index.html

Dear Dub... I don't recall ever hearing of this type of activity prior to that little illegal invasion and occupation.

How long has this been goin' on?
How long has this been goin' on?

Well your friends with their fancy persuasions
Can't admit that it's part of the scheme
But I can't help but have my suspicions
'Cause I ain't quite as dumb as I seem

And you said you were never intendin'
To break up our secret this way
But there ain't any use in pretendin'
It could happen to us any day

How long has this been goin' on?
How long has this been goin' on?

the song has ended but the malady lingers on,
Otter

For those who are not following the primary election outcome in MD-04 very closely, there's this bit of news from WaPo via myDD today.

from myDD:

WaPo: "In Montgomery and Prince George's counties yesterday, election officials continued to count the thousands of paper provisional ballots that could determine the outcome of the 4th Congressional District Democratic primary race between incumbent U.S. Rep. Albert R. Wynn and challenger Donna Edwards. Prince George's officials yesterday cracked opened 26 machines and retrieved votes that had not been counted."

A full eight days after the primary, these votes are only now being discovered. Who's doing the election counting? FEMA?

--------

The WaPo article does make it clear that the message about evoting machines is getting through -- finally. And interestingly, it's the Republican governor calling for a return to paper ballots and the Democratic Senate President who's resisting the call.

Ehrlich Wants Paper Ballots For Nov. Vote

State Election Chief Says Staff Toiling to Fix Electronic Glitches

By Christian Davenport and Ann E. Marimow
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, September 21, 2006; A01

A week after the primary election was plagued by human error and technical glitches, Maryland Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. (R) called yesterday for the state to scrap its $106 million electronic voting apparatus and revert to a paper ballot system for the November election.

"When in doubt, go paper, go low-tech," he said.

Linda H. Lamone, the administrator of the Maryland State Board of Elections, quickly denounced the plan to swap voting systems just seven weeks before the general election as "crazy." And Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller Jr. (D-Calvert) said it "cannot happen. It will not happen."

Ehrlich said that, if necessary, he would call a special session of the Maryland General Assembly to change the law to allow paper ballots. But Miller and House Speaker Michael E. Busch (D-Anne Arundel) dismissed the idea of a special session, saying elections officials should focus instead on fixing the current system.

"We paid millions. These are state-of-the-art machines," said Miller, who called Ehrlich's announcement a political ploy to energize his Republican supporters.

read the rest here...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/20/AR2006092001356_pf.html

-------------

As for what's going on in the MD races, the myDD poster also dug up some info from a local paper

Ballots still being counted
Election officials reveal problems with Sept. 12 primary were broader than first thought

Thursday, Sept. 21, 2006

Candidates and private citizens expressed alarm over the integrity of the primary election vote in Prince George's County after election officials began counting ballots from 26 precincts Wednesday, eight days after the polls closed.
~snip~

“If they’re bringing new machines in eight days after the count, that’s outrageous,“ said Bowie Mayor G. Frederick Robinson, who is locked in a tight race against Ingrid Turner for the District 4 County Council seat. Turner was ahead by 44 votes in unofficial returns before Wednesday's count.

“It makes me sick to my stomach,“ said Jonathan Shurberg, an attorney representing candidate Donna Edwards, whose tight race with U.S. Rep. Albert Wynn for the 4th district congressional seat might be affected by the outcome of the count.

“As well-intentioned as these people may be, I don’t have any confidence that there is an accurate vote count going on. I don’t have that,“ Shurberg added.

Separate counts were underway of absentee ballots and of provisional ballots.

Antonetti said the votes that were being counted Wednesday were in machines that were left at various precincts primary election night. They could not be retrieved at the time, because the buildings they were in were locked.

The machines were returned to the election board's warehouse in Upper Marlboro throughout the week, even as complaints about a variety of problems with the balloting mounted.

As workers opened the cases holding the machines yesterday, they showed the candidates and reporters the untouched tamper tape, which is supposed to assure the board that the machines have not been disturbed.

But some candidates were hearing about the voting machines for the first time on Wednesday morning. [a full week after the election]

read the rest of it here...
http://www.gazette.net/stories/092106/princou182624_31949.shtml

Re your question, some people in my community have asked people like the Secretary of State (of WA) and they answer that if there is no faith in the voting system, no one will turn up to vote. Local politicians have said the same thing. They know it is corrupt. Life tries to go on as usual. It can't.

It's like the coup in Bangkok. I called my friend in Portland (who is Thai) and he'd talked to his mother. Everything seemed normal.

Unless there are black helicopters everywhere and we have scanning devices embedded under our skin, people don't get it and media won't cover it. By the time it gets even worse, it might be too late.

Bev Harris has been called a crackpot by many. Yet on her website she has 25 downloadable lessons on how to do something. In person she recommends that you use the talents & connections you have - become an election official, volunteer at the polls, see if you can use your computer skills to demonstrate the system can be hacked, make calls, write letters etc.

Even Democrats.org now acknowledges in their mailings that 2000, 2002 and 2004 elections were dicey.

How long has this been goin' on?

Posted by: Otter at September 21, 2006 01:03 PM

Too long, Ace, way too effin long.

Have I mentioned lately that apathy kills?

Now More Than Ever
by John Mellencamp

If you believe
Won't you please raise your hands
Let's hear your voices
Let us know where you stand
Don't shout from the shadows
Cause it won't mean a damn
Now more than ever

Now more than ever
The world needs love
Not just a slogan
But the world needs love
Now more than ever
I can't stand alone
Now more than ever

If I was to buy you
A diamond ring
Make you my princess
Would it mean anything
Would you take me for granted
And just curse my name
Now more than ever

Now more than ever
The world needs love
Not just a slogan
But the world needs love
Now more than ever
I can't stand alone
Now more than ever

Who am I to say
What needs to be done
I'm just nobody
Another lost one
Caught between what's left
And what needs to be done
Now more than ever
The loss of love
The loss of our dreams
It's not too late

Now more than ever
The world needs love
Not just a slogan
But the world needs love
Now more than ever
I can't stand alone
Now more than ever

Maybe you did mention that apathy kills, mnonkey, maybe you didn't. But it's not like that can make a difference anyway, right?

*fnord*

nothing matters and what if it did,
Otter

Have a chuckle and check out the production values on this site.

Hint: After you get through the intro, click on "Net Neutrality". You'll 'love' their explanation.

Make sure your volume is turned on but not too loud if you're at work.

http://www.weownthenet.org/

Bush, McCain reach agreement on tribunal laws
Deal comes as House, Senate at odds over how to treat enemy combatants

BREAKING NEWS
NBC News
Updated: 3 minutes ago

President Bush and Sen. John McCain have reached an agreement on legislation covering tribunals for enemy combatant suspects, NBC News reported Thursday.

Details on the deal were not immediately available.

The compromise comes amid a stalemate that has divided the House and Senate on the treatment of detainees. The two sides remained at odds this week over how to adhere to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and — simultaneously — give the CIA wide leeway to conduct interrogations.

This breaking news story will be updated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14941594/

Fitzgerald given way out of Libby CIA leak case
Judge says he can dismiss case if classified secrets will be revealed

By Joel Seidman
Producer
NBC News
Updated: 14 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The judge in the CIA leak case ruled Thursday that if Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald feels that admitting certain classified documents at the upcoming trial of I Lewis "Scooter" Libby can jeopardize national security, Fitzgerald can then move to dismiss the perjury charges against Libby.

Judge Reggie Walton cannot automatically allow classified materials to be admitted at trial. He first must go through a series of closed hearings under CIPA regulations. CIPA, the Classified Information Procedures Act, protects and restricts the discovery of classified information in a way that does not impair the defendant's right to a fair trial. It also allows the government to propose a redacted version of a classified document as a substitution for the original, having deleted only non-relevant classified information.

In his ruling this morning, the Judge Walton, has given a technical legal victory to Libby's attorneys concerning the admissibility of classified materials they want to present at trial for their defense.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14941062/

Monkey
Those are both major "read between the lines" stories about white collar crime! Sick.

U.N. rights envoys condemn Bush plan on interrogation

GENEVA, Switzerland (Reuters) -- United Nations human rights investigators said on Thursday that legislation proposed by U.S. President George W. Bush for tough interrogations of foreign terrorism suspects would breach the Geneva Conventions.

In a joint statement to the U.N. Human Rights Council, meeting in Geneva, the five independent envoys also said that Washington's recent admission of secret detention centres abroad pointed to "very serious human rights violations in relation to the hunt for alleged terrorists".

The investigators called again for the United States to close down the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where hundreds of foreign terrorism suspects are being held, alleging that violations including torture and religious discrimination continued to occur.

"...the Government has not only taken no step to close Guantanamo, but it has recently proposed draft legislation to the Congress which is in breach with United States' human rights obligations ... and with the requirements of article 3 of the Geneva Conventions," the statement said.

A U.S. House of Representatives panel on Wednesday endorsed Bush's bill for tough interrogations and trials of foreign terrorism suspects, but the measure has still to be debated in the full House and Senate.

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/21/rights.un.usa.reut/index.html

Pentagon report to refute pre-9/11 intel claim
‘Able Danger’ did not know enough to stop hijackers, defense official says

Updated: 51 minutes ago

(AP) A new Pentagon report knocks down the idea that a secret military unit had garnered intelligence a year before the Sept. 11 attacks that might have stopped the hijackers, a senior defense official said Thursday.

Lawmakers were supposed to be briefed Thursday on the Defense Department inspector general’s report, and officials hoped to post a redacted version of the report on the Pentagon’s Web site as early as Thursday afternoon, two officials said. The officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the report had not yet been released, declined to provide further details about the study’s conclusions.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14941373/

If we can send a government official to Iraq, why can't we send them *all* there?

just wondering,
Otter

CIA agents ‘refused to operate’ at secret jails

Updated: 54 minutes ago

The Bush administration had to empty its secret prisons and transfer terror suspects to the military-run detention center at Guantanamo this month in part because CIA interrogators had refused to carry out further interrogations and run the secret facilities, according to former CIA officials and people close to the program.

The former officials said the CIA interrogators' refusal was a factor in forcing the Bush administration to act earlier than it might have wished.

When Bush announced the suspension of the secret prison program in a speech before the fifth anniversary of the September 11 terror attacks, some analysts thought he was trying to gain political momentum before the November midterm congressional elections.

The administration publicly explained its decision in light of the legal uncertainty surrounding permissible interrogation techniques following the June Supreme Court ruling that all terrorist suspects in detention were entitled to protection under Common Article Three of the Geneva Conventions.

But the former CIA officials said Bush's hand was forced because interrogators had refused to continue their work until the legal situation was clarified because they were concerned they could be prosecuted for using illegal techniques. One intelligence source also said the CIA had refused to keep the secret prisons going.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14941552/

Court asked to dismiss eavesdropping case
Bush administration calls lower court ruling dangerous and wrong

Updated: 53 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration asked an appeals court Thursday to step in immediately and dismiss a lawsuit over the government's warrantless eavesdropping program, calling a lower judge's ruling dangerous and wrong.

The Justice Department asked the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to overturn the decision earlier this month by U.S. District Judge Garr King in Portland, Ore., that kept the suit alive. Government attorneys argued that continuing the case would risk the disclosure of "highly sensitive foreign intelligence information."

The lawsuit was filed by the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation, which had a chapter in Ashland, Ore., that went out of business after the U.S. government labeled it a terrorist organization.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14940967/

IS IT JUST ME, OR IS THE ADMINISTRATION REALLY BUSY TODAY COVERING THY DERIERRE???

Yeah - I don't remember a flood of illegal immigrants trying to vote. I thought that in our state it was felons and dead people. & nationally, it seemed odd for urban Democrats to wait 9 hours to vote on too few voting machines while exurban Republicans waited 10 minutes to vote on an ample number of voting machines. That is definitely high-tech Jim Crow.

Kerry Denounces House Vote for Jim Crow Era Poll Tax

Below is a statement from Senator John Kerry (D-Mass.) regarding yesterday’s vote in the House of Representatives on the Federal Election Integrity Act of 2006. The bill would require voters in federal elections to prove their U.S. citizenship by showing picture government-issued photo ID.

“I am deeply troubled by the House of Representative’s decision yesterday to endorse a new Jim Crow era poll tax. If Republicans were serious about restoring electoral integrity, they would stop fabricating problems with the polls, and they’d take a crack at the real ones.

“There has been no flood of illegal immigrants trying to vote. There is no epidemic of individuals impersonating registered voters. What there is, however, is a shortage of accessible voting machines and polling places. There is a need for voter-verified paper ballots. There are problems with absentee and provisional ballots and purging voter lists.

“These are the real problems threatening our electoral system today. These are the real reasons people are being denied their fundamental right to vote. These are the reasons we need to pass the Count Every Vote Act and fully fund the Help America Vote Act. We have enough to do to restore integrity to our elections. Creating a 21st century poll tax is not the answer—it is just one more problem.”

IS IT JUST ME, OR IS THE ADMINISTRATION REALLY BUSY TODAY COVERING THY DERIERRE???

Posted by: monkey at September 21, 2006 04:42 PM

I don't think they are covering their derriere any better than Lindsay Lohan does. (In other words, not at all.)

Monkey

Ready for some REAL news?

Hilton Hands Homeless Beggar $100
Socialite Paris Hilton thrilled a homeless man in Hollywood Tuesday night when she handed him a $100 bill.

The cheeky beggar raced up to the wannabe singer's car as she was leaving a McDonald's and asked her for $100.

Bystanders heard him drop his price to just $1, but, with cameras from TMZ.com focused on her, Hilton decided she was feeling generous.

A source says, "Paris reached down beside her and handed the man a crumpled $100 bill. She then stopped to pose for pictures with the homeless guy, who offered to wash her windows, before racing off."

San Francisco Gate, today

--packing for SF myself

Posted by: DiAnne at September 21, 2006 06:02 PM

Besides, if illegal aliens (or legal ones for that matter) were allowed to vote, the Republicans would have NOTHING to lose in my neck of woods. Between abortion and gay marriage, they have this demographic locked up.

What are they so frigging afraid of?

--packing for SF myself

Posted by: DiAnne at September 21, 2006 06:04 PM

Welcome to California! Have a great trip!

Ally
What are they so afraid of? Losing! (If they were to play fair)

The New York Times | Keep Away the Vote
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092106B.shtml

The New York Times states: "One of the cornerstones of the Republican Party's strategy for winning elections these days is voter suppression, intentionally putting up barriers between eligible voters and the ballot box. The House of Representatives took a shameful step in this direction yesterday, voting largely along party lines for onerous new voter-ID requirements. Laws of this kind are unconstitutional, as an array of courts have already held, and profoundly undemocratic. The Senate should not go along with this cynical, un-American electoral strategy."

-- If 70 percent of those polled in a random sampling truly DO want change of direction in the Legislative branch, and then the vote is rigged so there isn't, things will eventually get .. interesting. It isn't unprecedented in history, but when the creeps hit bottom, alot of us unfortunately have to go along for the ride.

Euuwww .. Jerry Falwell is going to my old stomping grounds.

Rev. Jerry Falwell has been spewing xenophobic, homophobic, and religiously zealous rants for decades -- all wrapped in the flag of patriotism from atop his "Liberty Mountain" in Virginia.

This week, he's taking on South Dakota in his crusade to ban abortion throughout America. And he's doing it to the tune of $4 million dollars. http://www.standupsd.com/falwell

-- 4 million dollars is alot of money in a state with what .. 1/2 million people?

What Happens in South Dakota Should Stay in South Dakota --
but not if Falwell can help it.

UN Speech Gives Boost to Chomsky Book
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/09/21/entertainment/e103042D97.DTL

Funny. By coincidence I'd just checked it out of the library.
Now I'll be "watched."

What about Tony Blair
And his London derriere?
Should he get a free pass
Even though he's a... Labourite?

Really, DiAnne! Talk about chutzpah! Who does that guy think he is, anyway -- George W. Bush??

pride goeth before a falwell,
Otter

Here is a plug for cultural commentary on Vegas, the Minnesota state Fair, Diebold hacking and more - feel free to comment.
We do this mostly as an excuse to take photographs and to compare & contrast regional activism, art & so on between the Pacific NW and the upper Midwest (Twin Cities).
http://silencedmajority.blogs.com/silenced_majority_portal/

Oh. My. Effing. Gawd....!!!

I was offline most of the day, just listened to BBC news on PBS.... Torture in Iraq is now WORSE than it was under Saddam....

And our Congress Critters have now officially LOST their minds, their morals, and have "compromised" on TORTURE...?!? A BBC WA correspondent, being interviewed by the anchor said the list of what kinds of torture would be permitted has not been released, but he assumed it would be a long laundry list.

Will this NIGHTMARE never end?!?!?

Time to overload inboxes of our so-called senators and representatives....

Either that or waterboard 'em.

NonnyO
My husband came in from car radio & had heard same thing - torture worse in Iraq now than under Saddam. That is so shameful!

The dollar is down & we had to get a new roof so it wasn't practical to go far for vacation, so we just took a couple of long weekend. Now that I'm seeing what's going on in SF this weekend, I'm just astounded!

A leather & fetish fair, a blues festival, Green Day and Massive Attack concerts, an antiwar protest, the Love Parade and assorted raves, Chinatown festival, a Race for the Cure and a big football game (49ers v Dallas Cowboys). It is recommended not to drive. Hotels are full. We'll be staying right on Haight Street. Hundreds of thousands of extra people are expected in SF.
People are coming from as far away as South Africa, New Zealand and Paris, say the papers. Alot of the streets will be closed and the bus schedules will be changed.

Sounds like alot of photo ops & people watching!!!

Either that or waterboard 'em.
Posted by: Otter at September 21, 2006 07:10 PM

Under normal circumstances, I would never condone or approve of torture for anyone, anywhere, at any time for any reason whatsoever.

HOWEVER.........

I'll make these exceptions: IF Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Gonzales, Yoo, Frist, (and all the other Congress Critters, both Republican and Democrat, who approve of this bill, including Nancy Pelosi whom I just saw on The News Hour who seems to sanction a Democratic version of this bill) - can survive the exact same types of torture they are proposing being used on detainees (real torture, not a dog and pony show to demonstrate what they're proposing), I'll make an exception and approve of torture for them and their ilk.

Mind you, I only approve of those particular exceptions being tortured. If the people who are proposing torture can withstand torture they are proposing be done on others, then I'll approve torture be done to those who approve of torture.

For all others who do not approve of this lunatic legislation, no, I do not approve of, sanction, or condone torture for anyone, for any reason, at any time....

Didn't these idiots ever learn the old saying "You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"...? Or is that something only people down on the farm learn...?

NonnyO
I agree with Monkey that they are covering their derrieres. There is a reason the US didn't join the World Court & that our government wishes to alter the Geneva Conventions.

DiAnne -

I was re-reading the US Constitution for something I was writing about torture two days ago... There's a clause in there about treaties....

I think to try to negate the Geneva Conventions is, in and of itself, a crime under our Constitution.... Which means that not only would Herr Boosh and Chinkster and their ilk would be breaking US and international laws, but so would the entire body of the US Congress....

Dang, but I wish I could talk this over with a lawyer who specializes in Constitutional law...!

I wanted to thank Ira for all the hard work he did in Ohio during the last ten days. He conducted a senior citizen outreach, passed out literature, and signed up many volunteers. All while dealing with rainy weather and transportation problems. We who are hoping to Turnaround Ohio sincerely appreciate those like Ira who generously give their time to help make it happen.

Oh, and YES, most assuredly they are trying to cover their asses by trying to retroactively legalize the laws (US and international) they've ALREADY violated...!!!

That's why Herr Boosh is pushing so hard for this ludicrous legislation to pass before the Oct. recess date while he still has his rubber-stampers sitting in both the House and the Senate. He has to get it passed before the Oct. recess or potentially face a Dem majority who *might* (or might not, given the track record of incombent Dems who seem to be mostly DINOs) approve of legalizing torture and exempting torturers from prosecution....

Given his "performance" at the rose garden party earlier this week where he was virtually frothing at the mouth, I'd say he's desperate....

NonnyO
I have a good article relating to what you just said .. need to find the title / link so I can shorten it to post here. Friend saw it on Yahoo but Reuters, CNN & The Scotsman have it too. I never thought in my lifetime I'd read something like this relating to my country, did you?

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-21T161256Z_01_L21577318_RTRUKOC_0_US-RIGHTS-UN-USA.xml

U.N. rights envoys condemn Bush plan on interrogation
GENEVA
United Nations human rights investigators said on Thursday that legislation proposed by President Bush for tough interrogations of foreign terrorism suspects WOULD BREACH THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS.

In a statement to the U.N. Human Rights Council, the five independent envoys also said Washington's admission of secret detention centres abroad pointed to "very serious human rights violations in relation to the hunt for alleged terrorists."
SNIP Despite U.S. declarations of intent to shut Guantanamo, Washington had done nothing yet and was even planning to open a new cell bloc at the end of this month, they said. SNIP The Bush administration says that with the transfer of 14 detainees, including one of the alleged masterminds of September 11, to Guantanamo earlier this month there are no more suspects being held in secret jails. But Manfred Nowak, the U.N. special rapporteur on torture, told journalists that others remained unaccounted for, which he said amounted to the banned crime of "enforced disappearances."
SNIP
On Wednesday, a U.S. House of Representatives panel endorsed Bush's bill for tough interrogations and trials of foreign terrorism suspects. SNIP The five said that the bill, which has still to be approved by the full House and the Senate, amounted to an attempt to "legalise" rights violations that have been condemned in Guantanamo and elsewhere. The proposed legislation was "in breach with United States' human rights obligation as identified in our report and with the requirement of article 3 of the Geneva Conventions," they said, referring to the 1949 treaty which lays down basic guarantees of protection for detainees. The plan would allow the U.S. government to arrest and detain indefinitely people who were not involved in any armed conflict and torture was not banned outright, they said.
----

We just gassed up the car. A woman with a W sticker had entered the city. Her white OJ-type van had a flag that was about half as big as one of her doors - the flapping kind, not the decal kind. A guy walked up to her and asked, "Aren't you sure where you live?"

Posted by: DiAnne at September 21, 2006 08:42 PM

That's what I thought when I read the treaty clause in the US Constitution....

I dunno, I'm gettin that same disgusting feeling I got in about Oct. '04, (and Theftnight 2000), that the fix is in come election time.

Damn, I hope I dont have to go all Johnny Tremaine on somebody come November.

Musket Love

Take the world leader mudslinging quiz.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/1,,1878041,00.html?Q_23121=24466
I scored 6 of 10.

New RFK Jr. article will explore if 2006 election can be hacked

RAW STORY
Published: Thursday September 21, 2006

In the upcoming issue of Rolling Stone, environmental lawyer Robert F. Kennedy Jr., along with award-winning writer Dick Russell, deepens his investigation into America's electoral process, according to a press release received by RAW STORY.

"Following the debacle of the 2000 presidential election, touch-screen voting machines promised to make voting as easy and reliable as withdrawing cash from an ATM," the press release states. "In 2002, privately owned Diebold, the world’s third-largest seller of ATMs, was awarded a contract to install 19,000 voting machines across the state of Georgia even though its bid was the highest among nine competing vendors, and it had only recently completed its acquisition of Global Election Systems (a voting-machine firm that owned the technology Diebold was promising to sell Georgia)."

"But as November's high-stakes midterm elections approach, electronic voting machines are making things worse instead of better," according to the press release. "Studies have demonstrated that hackers can easily rig the technology to fix an election – and across the country this year, faulty equipment and lax security have repeatedly undermined election primaries."

In the article, Kennedy interviews former Diebold consultant, Chris Hood, who "reveals to what extent our right to vote is at risk."

more...
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/New_RFK_Jr._article_Will_election_0921.html

Monkey
I am glad you and I both like bananas because this is a Banana Republic we're living in.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. | Will the Next Election Be Hacked?
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092106R.shtml
Fresh disasters at the polls - and new evidence from an industry insider - prove that electronic voting machines can't be trusted, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. reports.

Also, Libby will probably walk.

Posted by: monkey at September 21, 2006 08:55 PM

The scarey thing is I just said exactly the same thing to my husband, he is right about one thing the last election proved we can exhaust ourselves doing the right thing volunteering and talking to everyone but at the end of the day even making people think isnt always enough to save our country.

I am scared as hell we will be subjected to 2 more years of Bush and the do nothing republican congress, the results would be disasturous, our economy is all but beyond repair now not to mention our standing in the world or enviroment and so many other things.

I am scared that essentialy this election hinges on the price at the pump and people will ignore the real issues facing us and this country over the next few years, the sad thing the people who have benefited under this administration and congress know this and are doing everything they can to help at all of our peril. Normal everyday people continue to run headlong toward the cliff not realizing the true cost of their deliberate ignorance on this country the world but most of all their childrens futures.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/21/black.republicans.ap/index.html

GOP group's campaign ad says Democrats started KKK

*******
Please someone tell me that the people are smart enough to have paid attention to history abd know this is false. After all there is a famous group of southerners who broke with the party over this very issues because Democrats wanted Civil rights and other things that would benefit minorities of all kinds. They were the Dixiecrats a group of bigoted racist people who were ticked that Dems were pushing so hard for minority rights. This is getting sickening.

Aha! In and amongst the incredible inpouring of Demo- and Prog-related email that I am subject to every day, I just received a notice worth following up on:

Speaking in a local college auditorium on October 2 is none other than Col. Ann Wright, US Army (Ret.) Col. Wright had retired from the Army after 29 years of service in order to take a post with the US Foreign Service. She was with the first team sent in to reopen the US Embassy in Kabul, and served as the Deputy Chief of Mission (Deputy Ambassador) there.

Col. Wright resigned from the State Department in March of 2003, citing her disagreement with the Bush administration's decision to go to war in Iraq without the authorization of the UN Security Council, the lack of effort in resolving the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, the lack of policy on North Korea, and the unnecessary curtailment of civil liberties within the United States.

You might have seen and heard Col. Wright speak out on screen already, as she has been interviewed on most of the broadcast and cable news/commentary shows on a number of occasions. She was one of many high-ranking State Department officials critical of the US push to war in Iraq who were interviewed in the Robert Greenwald film "Uncovered: The War in Iraq."

Now I've got the chance to see and hear Col. Wright speak out in person in a couple of weeks. And lemme tell ya, I am, like, *so* there for that.

Hmm. Maybe I could take a page out of DiAnne & Cap'n Sparrow's reporters' notebooks and see if I can score a bloggers' press pass for the event, take some pictures and do a full report for the DCP on what she says in her speech, and if I'm really lucky, score a few special quotes to feature on our top page here.

Whatcha reckon, y'all? Think anybody'd be interested in seeing something like that here? I mean, what with our well-known political apathy and socio-cultural illiteracy and complete disinterest in what happens in Washingtoon and all that...

The nighttime cable news programs are making much of Chavez's and Ahmadinejad's attacks on President Bush. They are making the point that both Iran's and Venezuela's oil reserves grant them the political Teflon to get away with such attacks.

Let's hope our Commander-in-Chief understands that the best weapon against these enemies is a Manhattan Project style effort to make America totally energy independent in the next decade.

Dubya, I know that you're stubborn - but even you must understand that it's time to just say no to the petro mafia.

Otter
Do it!!

Well, okay, if you insist. But please don't get your expectations up or anything. You know I'm really not much of a writer.

yeah right ;)

Posted by: april at September 21, 2006 09:09 PM

I'm scared, too, April but I just think many of the working people in this country are puppets. I am not sure they are deliberately ignorant at their own hands, but feel they are kept deliberately ignorant by the powers that be.
They are kept trying ever harder to provide essentials for their families while working longer hours. They are deeply in debt. Both parents work in most cases, and I am sure they are exhausted every night after work. They then have another shift, to run errands, do chores, feed their families, take the kids places, etc.
I am sure they think they are getting the real scoop when they see CNN quick snooze, or happen to catch a glimpse of the network "news" program.

I was one of them, and I was under the impression for years that things were the way they said they were, even if we weren't seeing that in real life.

Our people just don't have time to educate themselves in alot of cases, but that's just my 2 cents worth.

What can we do about that? Ads are effective. Billboards too.

And, if the elections are rigged, we are back to square one.

I am very afraid we may not take back the Senate.

Oh, and April, I see the desperation on people's faces many times. Especially the men. Especially blue collar men. They have been told for years that it is their job to provide for their families. Many labor in physically exhausting jobs, and feel the pressure when the bills mount up, and because the middle class is disappearing, they feel inadequate.

Yet the neocons keep telling them everything is o.k., and they strut around in their silk suits and fancy cars and tell the have-nots that it is because they aren't responsible enough, or smart enough, or industrious enough, that they lack.

How I long for the America I grew up in. Five kids in a suburb where the dad's income alone provided quite well. There weren't alot of extras but there was alot less stress.

We just have to get them out of power.

Bush Rages: “I am not Beelzebub, Lord of Sulfur”
By Mike Whitney
Plucky Chavez, - publicly throttled the Global Emperor in front of 6 billion people and left his bruised and bloodied carcass splattered across the canvas like Roberto Duran in Round 9 of the middleweight championship match…..
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15049.htm
{{{Highly recommended reading...!}}}
Harold Pinter's Nobel Prize award speech (link in above article)
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11239.htm
Rise Up Against the Empire
President Hugo Chavez, Address to the United Nations
Yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here, talking as if he owned the world. Truly. As the owner of the world.
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15041.htm

{{{Entire printed version of Chavez's speech, plus a link to the video on the web site. Chavez hasn't said anything new that US residents and other people of the world haven't said... but he did get the publicity for it with carefully parsed sound bytes aired in the US Lamestream Media that were not even the best parts of his speech.... When I originally read this, there were over 130 Comments and all except for half a dozen or fewer praised Chavez to the skies. I haven't read that much glowing praise since George Galloway spoke to Congress.}}}

Noam Chomsky on Hegemony or Survival: America’s Quest For Global Dominance
Audio and Transcript
“If you repeat it loudly enough it will become the truth” - MIT institute professor of linguistics and author Noam Chomsky speaks out on U.S. hegemony, controlling the domestic population through fear and the historical parallels of current U.S. foreign policy.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15052.htm

Where is the seat of global justice?:
Address by His Excellency Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad President of the Islamic Republic of Iran before the 61 st Session of the United Nations, General assembly. Full text
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15040.htm

{{{More stones. Full text of speech. We heard/saw the full text of the lies and palaver and blather of Herr Boosh on live TV, but with the exception of carefully parsed sound bytes (as with Chavez's speech), we didn't hear the full text of this speech either. Both Chavez and Ahmadinejad are far more erudite than that idiot installed as our "leader." Their speeches most definitely reflect an IQ higher than Herr Boosh's....}}}

Also, for future reference:
http://www.un.org/webcast/ga/61/index.shtml

Bush Bows to Senators on Detainees
President Bush acceded to dissident Senate Republicans on Thursday, agreeing to new rules for interrogating and prosecuting suspected terrorists that leave intact international treaty protections against torture but allows a secret interrogation program to continue. By Julian E. Barnes and Richard Simon.
http://latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-tribunal22sep22,0,3655407.story

{{{ROTFLMAO.... Whatever Boosh de Sade didn't get in his torture bill he will ignore (the same bill, incidentally, which exempts him and his administration and the torturers from war crimes prosecutions, which few writers talk about), Sniff... sniff... I smell signing statements in the air.....}}}

Anti-Americanism Is Providing a Glue
The outpouring of anti-American rhetoric from the leaders of Iran, Sudan and Venezuela at the United Nations this week is demonstrating how anger at the United States is uniting the developing world in a way not seen since the 1980s, U.S. officials and analysts say. By Paul Richter.
http://latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-anti22sep22,0,4430301.story

{{{That's because leaders in other countries have the balls to stand up to Herr Boosh. No Democrat or Republican or Independent has had the clarity of expression, nor the sheer logic, used by George Galloway, Hugo Chavez or Aminadinajad, and no senator or representative in the US of A has enough courage to interrupt the blather of spinmeisters who do nothing but endlessly repeat White House or Pentagon propaganda. The few times I've tried to watch Sunday yakkity yak shows, Dems, in particular, are treated with ridicule and disdain (by body language, if not with snide tones of voice on the part of the moderators), and have been interrupted by spinmeisters before they even complete a thought (which is why we need bumper sticker expressions and short sentences to get the points across), and politicians of both parties who appear together on the same shows (it gives the token appearance of political "balance") are nothing but dittoheads who agree with each other over anything the dictator wannabe puts forth. There just are no original opinions clearly and emphatically stated by politicians of any kind in the US of A, no one who will state FACTS objectively and tell the American public the truth...!!!}}}

Our Torturer-in-Chief
Until Bush took office, the U.S. had no problem defining what is cruel and inhuman.
We don't torture detainees, President Bush has repeatedly insisted; we just make use of lawful "alternative procedures" of interrogation. But if everything we've done is lawful, why is the White House suddenly so desperate to get a deal with Congress that would "clarify" Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention? By Rosa Brooks.
http://latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks22sep22,0,5042894.story
{{{Highly recommended reading...!}}}

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060920/sc_nm/science_fear_dc
U.S. study finds fear on-off switch in brain
{{{Hmmmm... I wonder if mad scientists will use this knowledge to brainwash people...?}}}

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/sept11_hijackers
Pentagon: Secret unit couldn't stop 9/11
WASHINGTON - A Pentagon report rejects the idea that intelligence gathered by a secret military unit could have been used to stop the Sept. 11 hijackings.

The Pentagon inspector general's office said Thursday that a review of records from the unit, known as Able Danger, found no evidence it had identified ringleader Mohamed Atta or any other terrorist who participated in the 2001 attacks.
~~~~~
Weldon questioned the "motives and the content" of the report and rejected its conclusions. "Acting in a sickening bureaucratic manner, the DOD IG cherry-picked testimony from witnesses in an effort to minimize the historical importance of the Able Danger effort," Weldon said in a statement.

"The report trashes the reputations of military officers who had the courage to step forward and put their necks on the line to describe important work they were doing to track al-Qaida prior to 9/11," Weldon said. He said the investigation did little to answer the questions it was supposed to examine.
~~~~~~~~~~~
{{{Errr.... Is that why the so-called 'high value detainees' F**kWit now wants legally tortured (I'm assuming they've already been illegally tortured) have recently been labeled as the 'masterminds behind 9/11'... instead of OBL who was let go at Tora Bora, whom we were originally told was the mastermind behind 9/11 and that was the reason for invading Afghanistan...??? Oh.... I'm So-o-o-o-o confused. The ACTUAL hijackers died on 9/11, along with their victims, so the 'mastermind' is almost a moot point (the actual hijackers likely had something to do with the planning, too, since they had to coordinate flight schedules), even though it would be nice to figure out the truth as to who the actual masterminds were. (Conspiracy theories aside, I doubt we'll ever know, but at this point, I tend to think that at the very minimum the Boosh administration deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen per PNAC's wanting an event "like Pearl Harbor" to happen so they could have an excuse to invade Iraq - never mind the country did not have one thing to do with it - I still think he was sitting in that classroom savoring the moment, not frozen in fear; I've watched that several times on Farenheit 9/11. The Aug 6 PDB was conveniently ignored and 9/11 was just 'allowed' to happen.).... Ever feel like you're reading the edits put out by the character Winston inside the plot structure of 1984 who has to rewrite facts and predictions to fit the "facts" that became obsolete the day before and now have to be changed to reflect the current history today, not the history that was once accurate the day before yesterday...??? Or something like that....}}}

Gonzales: ISPs must keep records on users:
"We need to figure out a way to have ISPs retain data for a sufficient period of time that would allow us to go back and retrieve it."
http://news.com.com/Gonzales+ISPs+must+keep+records+on+users/2100-1028_3-6117455.html

The Surprising End of the New American Century
By Mike Whitney
Iran has no choice but to take Bush’s saber rattling seriously and prepare for war. The administration’s stated goal of “regime change” poses a credible “existential threat” to current Iranian government and they must plan accordingly.
http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15042.htm
Excerpt:
White House hawks and their corporate colleagues realize that the only way to manage the explosive growth of America’s greatest competitor, China, is by seizing its primary source of energy. The hand which controls the oil-spigot rules the world. Thus, Iran has become a strategic-imperative for US plans of global domination.

It is worth noting, that Iran has committed no violations and that Bush’s war plans are just another example of unprovoked aggression on a peaceful nation. Iran poses no national security threat to America, it has not attacked its neighbors, and, despite claims by the Bush administration, has not been involved in any (provable) acts of international terrorism. They are the simply the victims of a strident militarist doctrine that conceals flagrant acts of aggression behind the feeble ideology of “preemption”; a policy which allows the United States to attack whoever it chooses on the mere presumption that they may pose a potential threat to their continued global supremacy.

Iran has no nuclear weapons, no nuclear weapons programs, and has complied with every requirement of its treaty obligations under the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) for the last 3 years. At the same time it has undergone the most extensive inspection-regime in the history of the IAEA, the United Nations nuclear watchdog agency. The agency has been given a free-hand to “go anywhere and see anything” in Iran’s nuclear facilities and has consistently stated that it has found Iran “in compliance” with its requirements.
~~~~~
Bush has unilaterally repealed Iran’s clearly articulated treaty rights under the NPT, and yet, the European allies have fallen in line behind Washington. No one apparently can resist the administration’s incredible powers of coercion.

Ironically, Iran has signaled that the standoff could be resolved peacefully if Washington would agree to a non aggression pact that would guarantee that the US will not attack Iran without provocation. This tidbit of information is scrupulously omitted from reports in the media as it does not coincide with the image of Iran as the “terrorist bully” they are made out to be.

http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2006/09/frist-blames-democratic-minority-for-do.html
Frist Blames Democratic Minority for Do-Nothing Congress, Gets Spanked
Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), who has endured this Congress with control of no committees, an inability to pass any meaningful legislation and no say over the Senate's legislative agenda, was on Frist faster than Halliburton snaps up a no-bid contract.

"For more than 3 years, this Congress, which has been given the name of the "do-nothing Congress,'' has turned a blind eye to the intractable war in Iraq, ignoring the administration's many mistakes and allowing it to stay on a failed course," said Reid. "Here we are, with 6 days left in the 109th Congress, and the Republicans, who control the House and Senate and the White House, have not held one hearing -- not one -- into the President's wartime failures."
~~~~~~
"This Republican Congress has wasted 20 months on horse slaughtering; the Schiavo case, dealing with someone's personal relationship, which should not even have been before this body; gay marriage; the nuclear option; flag burning; repealing the estate tax," said Reid. "But they could not find a day for some time to look at the President's mistakes, missteps, and misconduct, which have hurt American security and plunged Iraq into a civil war -- not a day."

{{{You will appreciate the full story, the exchange between Reed and Durbin, too... ;-)...}}}

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060921/ap_on_re_us/guantanamo_sept11_mastermind
Alleged 9/11 planner faces Gitmo hearing
GUANTANAMO BAY NAVAL BASE, Cuba - Detainees accused of planning the Sept. 11 attacks, the USS Cole bombing and the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania are expected to face hearings within three months to determine whether they are enemy combatants.
Fourteen "high-value" detainees — including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed — will be invited to appear at the hearings at the Guantanamo Bay detention center, said Navy Capt. Phil Waddingham, director of the Office for the Administrative Review of the Detention of Enemy Combatants.

Mohammed was believed to be the No. 3 al-Qaida leader before he was captured in Pakistan in 2003. If he appears, it would mark the first time he has been seen in public since his capture.

Detainees can refuse to appear but the tribunals will be held regardless, Waddingham told reporters Wednesday.

Ramzi Binalshibh, who is accused of helping plan the Sept. 11 attacks and being a lead operative for a foiled plot to crash aircraft into London's Heathrow Airport, is also among the 14 captives. Abu Zubaydah, who was believed to be a link between Osama bin Laden and many al-Qaida cells before he was captured in Pakistan in 2002, is also among the 14.

The 14 terrorism suspects are undergoing "orientation" and not being interrogated, Army Gen. Bantz J. Craddock told a group of reporters at the Pentagon.

The detainees were recently transferred from CIA custody to this isolated U.S. Navy base in southeast Cuba, President Bush announced on Sept. 6.
~~~~~
Craddock, who oversees U.S. military operations in Latin America and the Caribbean as commander of U.S. Southern Command, estimated that the 14 would be made available to the Red Cross around Oct. 1, but not before they completed their orientation.
~~~~~

Errrr.... Fourteen "high value" detainees ... will be"invited" to appear at hearings??? WHAT, precisely, does "orientation" MEAN in the above context, and WHY can't the Red Cross see the prisoners BEFORE "they complete their orientation."?!?

SECRET CIA PRISONS IN YOUR BACKYARD
Onnesha Roychoudhuri, Truthdig
The largest covert CIA operation since the Cold War is run not only by shadowy government contractors in the darkest corners of Afghanistan, but also by unassuming Americans in places like Dedham, Mass.
http://www.alternet.org/story/41923/
Excerpt:
This is the crucial question that we are facing right now. Bush transferred a handful of guys to Guantanamo and acknowledged they were kept in these secret prisons. Congress has to come up with a framework to prosecute these guys. It's common knowledge that most of the guys at Guantanamo are nobodies. Many were turned in by bounty hunters. But the guys that Bush transferred to Guantanamo Bay are guys that everybody agrees are bad guys. The sticking point is that they have tortured them for years and the evidence against them is totally tainted by rendition and torture. These are guys that people definitely want to see put on trial. By moving them to Guantanamo Bay, Bush is basically challenging Congress and saying, "If you want to put Khaled Sheikh Mohammed on trial, you're going to have to retroactively authorize torture, rendition, and the black site program."

If Congress does authorize the president's version of the bill, they're not only retroactively authorizing torture, they're creating a legal framework for the future. That would create a system where disappearing and torturing people would become a part of the law.

THE PRESIDENTIAL THREE-YEAR-OLD
Molly Ivins, AlterNet
…Or the worst press conference in history.
http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/41933/

just returned from Cleveland for the Jewish holidays and can report great enthusiasm for taking back Ohio and a 21 point lead for Ted Strickland. As for voting problems, Cayahoga Cty and our campaigns are busy recruiting 7,000 new election judges and technicians to oversee what we hope are fair elections in Ohio this year. We had a predbate rally in front of their Channel Studio in Cleveland the other day and 75 of us braved the elements only to be met by an equal force that Ken Blackwell bussed in from Toldedo b/c he could find few local forces. One of Blackwell's 19 year old thugs supporter from Duke was yelling he wanted no taxes and somehow thought the state govt effected his retirement ( hadn't heard about Social Security what a joke)started a confrontation with one of our minority volunteers using racial slurs and made a fool of himself in front of local Cleveland tv cameras. We think we finally shut him up when we asked how his lacross friends at Duke were doing. We had some pretty creative campaign activities going on that unfortunately I can't give details about until after the election but overall things are going well and I look forward to going back in the next few weeks. Economically Ohio is in pretty bad shape, and our campaign slogan is turning Ohio around, which says it all. Blackwell has this really bizarre plan he calls the 65% sollution which if implimented will be the initial step towards complete privitization of the entire Ohio public school system. Worked with a great team of mature, sophisticated campaign organizers.

Molly Ivins | A Tortured Debate
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092106K.shtml
Molly Ivins writes: "A debate on torture. I don't know - what do you think? I guess we have to define it, first. The White House has already specified 'water boarding,' making some guy think he's drowning for long periods, as a perfectly good interrogation technique. Maybe, but it was also a great favorite of the Gestapo and has been described and condemned in thousands of memoirs and novels in highly unpleasant terms."
Excerpt:
I was interested to find that the Rev. Louis Sheldon of the Traditional Values Coalition is so in favor of torture he told McCain that the senator either supports the torture bill or he can forget about the evangelical Christian vote. I'd like to see an evangelical vote on that one. I don't know how Sheldon defines traditional values, but deliberately inflicting terrible physical pain or stress on someone who is completely helpless strikes me as ... well, torture. And, um, wrong. And I've smoked dope! Boy, everything those conservatives tell us about the terrible moral values of us liberals must be true after all.
{There's a second article after Ivins' piece on the same link.}

Bill Allows Eavesdropping on Americans When Attack "Imminent"
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092106L.shtml
In the Senate, neither the White House nor the rebellious senators have the votes necessary to move forward on how to handle the nation's most dangerous terror suspects. The two sides remained at odds over how to adhere to the 1949 Geneva Conventions and - simultaneously - give the CIA wide leeway to conduct interrogations. A new bill proposes making eavesdropping on Americans legal when an attack is "imminent."
{{{Does that mean someone knows something about an "imminenet" attack that we don't know about??? Like, in time for an October Surprise?}}}

John Nichols | Election Dysfunction
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092106E.shtml
"One hundred and eight democratic nations in the world have explicit language guaranteeing the right to vote in their constitutions, and the United States - along with only ten other such nations - does not," writes John Nichols. "As a result, the way we administer elections in this country changes from state to state, from county to county, from locality to locality. The Secretary of the Commonwealth must fight for a Constitutional amendment that affirmatively guarantees the right to vote in the US Constitution."

Bill Quigley | The Trial of the WMD Here Plowshares Clowns
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092106G.shtml
"Sunflowers, farmhouses, teen camps and nuclear weapons - who would have thought the power to destroy the world many times over could fit in so well? The people of this state will not need to turn on CNN to know when the nuclear holocaust arrives," writes Bill Quigley.
{{{The story of the trial and verdict of the fellows dressed as clowns at the ND nuclear missile site.... Zounds. Eye-opening....}}}

Posted by: Ira at September 22, 2006 08:13 AM

The very best to you and yours this holiday season, and bless you for putting your heart and soul into everything you do.

p.s. Monkey sprang from the city that houses the Rock N' Roll Hall of Fame... imagine that.

Good Yontif

Barrytown
by Steely Dan

I'm not one to look behind I know that times must change
But over there in Barrytown they do things very strange
And though you're not my enemy
I like things like they used to be
And though you'd like some company
I'm standing by myself
Go play with someone else
I can see by what you carry that you come from Barrytown

Don't believe I'm taken in by stories I have heard
I just read the Daily News and swear by every word
And don't think that I'm out of line
For speaking out for what is mine
I'd like to see you do just fine
But look at what you wear
And the way you cut your hair

I can see by what you carry that you come from Barrytown

In the beginning we recall that the word was hurled
Barrytown people got to be from another world

Leave me or I'll be just like the others you will meet
They won't act as kindly if they see you on the street
And don't you scream or make a shout
It's nothing you can do about
It was there where you came out
It's a special lack of grace
I can see it in your face

I can see by what you carry that you come from Barrytown

A few days ago I posted a bit about the forward about "In God We Trust" being sent around by the Fundamental Christians. With their view point that if you don't like it you should sit down and shut up...

I sent my response to a former homeschool friend who is very religious herself. She's been very nonpolitical but she was able to meet with me at Camp Democracy in DC and see why I care so much about this. (She saw Camp Alex and met Alex's dad, Carlos and was quite moved. Her son is against the war, but as I said, 'politics' really didn't have meaning to her.)

At anyrate, I forwarded the email to her and she sent me a reply that I made me feel a lot better. So I'm going to post the nonpersonal portions here for you to see as well.

Here it is:

"And yes, saying "Sit down and shut up" to someone just because they disagree with you is very rude and insulting!!! And of course Jesus would never endorse insulting those who disagree with you!! In Ephesians 4:29, we are told to use words only that "are helpful for building others up, according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen."

I liked what you wrote about "Behold the Man". You are so right! We need to look at Jesus Himself and what he taught, not what His flawed followers have done in His name over the years (and we are ALL flawed--myself included!!) Jesus' greatest command is to "love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to love others as yourself". When you look at Jesus' life and ministry, He was very apolitical, focusing instead on peoples' relationships with God and others. During His lifetime, Jerusalem and the surrounding areas were a hotbed of political unrest, but Jesus didn't take sides in any political or religious debates. In Matthew 22:15-22, when His opponents tried to trap Him into a political debate, He responded, "Give to Cesar what is Cesar's, and give to God what is God's" (ie, your heart, your whole self). Jesus demonstrated with His actions that ALL people mattered to Him--He cut across all dividing lines of race, gender, social position, and religious background. In His time, the Samaritans were a very despised group of people, both ethnically and religiously. But when He gave the parable of the "Good Samaritan" (an oxymoron to the people He was speaking to), He made it clear that your religiousness, staus or social class meant nothing if you don't show compassion to others. (Read Luke 10:25-37). So, I agree--Behold the Man--not His followers!! All Christians (all people!) make mistakes and do hurtful, selfish things at times. But don't look at us--look at Him!! Then you won't be disappointed..

snip

I'm glad you don't lump all Christians into one group of conservative Republican pro-war, etc types..."

~~~~

So I hope by sharing that portion that it helps you as well.

Sounds like it's Town Meeting day here at the DCP. And Billy Joel knows. Oddly enough for a nice rich Jewish kid from Long Island, he definitely knows -- he sure got this one pegged, all right. I know the people he's writing about. And you do, too. They're all everywhere over the place right here in the good ol' U.S. of A. ... and they're the ones who've got to wake up and smell the coffins if we're ever going to pry those warmongering greedheads out of power in Washingtoon.

---------------

Well, we're living here in Allentown
And they're closing all the factories down
Out in Bethlehem they're killing time
Filling out forms
Standing in line

Well, our fathers fought the Second World War
Spent their weekends on the Jersey Shore
Met our mothers in the USO
Asked them to dance
Danced with them slow

And we're living here in Allentown

But the restlessness was handed down
And it's getting very hard to stay
Well, we're waiting here in Allentown
For the Pennsylvania we never found
For the promises our teachers gave
If we worked hard
If we behaved

So the graduations hang on the wall
But they never really helped us at all
No they never taught us what was real
Iron and coke
And chromium steel

And we're waiting here in Allentown

But they've taken all the coal from the ground
And the union people crawled away
Every child has a pretty good shot
To get at least as far as their old man got
But something happened on the way to that place
They threw an American flag in our place

Well, I'm living here in Allentown
And it's hard to keep a good man down
But I won't be getting up today
And it's getting very hard to stay

And we're living here in Allentown

---------------

rust belt never sleeps,
Otter

Posted by: sparrow at September 22, 2006 09:38 AM

It helps a lot, actually. Very encouraging to see even one light in the darkness. It's been my beef with fundies all along, and it pisses me off to the hilt see how they've defamed His Awesomeness, twisting it into something it so was never intended to be.

There ain't no gold, and there ain't nobody like me
I'm the number one fan of the man from Nazarene

Heathen Town
by Elvis Costello

We used to call it Sin City
now it's gone way past that.
Painting the town
and then burning it down.
And even that's old hat.
Now there' a choir of angles
and the fall of Rome
singing "Ave Maria"
or "Home Sweet Home"

It's just a heathen town
I hear only evil
as my tongue is tightened.
I used to be god-fearing
now I'm so frightened
'cause the devil will drag you under
by the sharp tailfin
of your checkered cab
Now I can't sit down,
I'm going overboard
in this heathen town.

Starts as an a flirtation
and ends up as an expensive habit.
With one eye on her place in debtor's
And the other on a girl
dressed as a rabbit.
Now you can live forever
in your fits and starts
The only stake you cannot raise
Is the one driven through your heart.

It's just a heathen town
I hear only evil
as my tongue is tightened.
I used to be god-fearing
now I'm so frightened
'cause the devil will drag you under
by the sharp tailfin
of your checkered cab
Now I can't sit down,
I'm going overboard
in this heathen town.

The people all said sit down,
sit down you're rocking the boat.
The people all said sit down,
sit down you're rocking the boat.
'cause the devil will drag you under
by the sharp lapels of your checkered coat.
Sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down,
sit down you're rocking the boat.

Pathetic if true:

FOCUS | US Threatened to Bomb Pakistan Back to Stone Age

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206Z.shtml
Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf said the US threatened to bomb his country back to the Stone Age if he did not assist the administration's war on terrorism. The threat was delivered after the attacks of September 11, 2001, by Richard L. Armitage, then deputy secretary of state, to Musharraf's intelligence director, the Pakistani leader told CBS's "60 Minutes" for Sunday's broadcast.

Of course there's an "October Surprise" in the works. Would Rove allow it to be any other way? With whatever 'surprise' he's pulling out of the caves, it's done to make cheating on elections much easier.

What a sham(e) the Republican Party has beome!

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Newsmax_Rove_promises_GOP_insiders_October_0921.html

Truth Shall Prevail
Our plane from Vegas landed in Reno so I at least got a look from the air & at the airstrip! I said, "Hi down there!" to ya!

Posted by: DiAnne at September 22, 2006 10:13 AM

Was just about to post that article, it's also the headline on MSNBC.com
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14943975/
"U.S. denies official threatened Pakistan in 2001"
Rift comes as Bush, Musharraf meet at White House

And remember, just days ago, El Diablya also said he'd send troops into Pakistan against their wishes to catch OBL (yeah, like he careswhere OBL is).

This president is gonna continue to get people hurt.

This week in Bush Idiocy....

September 18, 2006 (Rose Colored Glasses Garden press Conference)
Q: "Well, recently you've also described bin Laden as sort of a modern-day Hitler or Mussolini. And I'm wondering why, if you can explain why you think it's a bad idea to send more resources to hunt down bin Laden, wherever he is? "

Bush: "We are, Richard. Thank you. Thanks for asking the question. They were asking me about somebody's report, well, special forces here -- Pakistan -- if he is in Pakistan, as this person thought he might be, who is asking the question -- Pakistan is a sovereign nation. In order for us to send thousands of troops into a sovereign nation, we've got to be invited by the government of Pakistan."

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/41933/

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

September 20, 2006
NEW YORK (CNN) -- President Bush said Wednesday he would order U.S. forces to go after Osama bin Laden inside Pakistan if he received good intelligence on the fugitive al Qaeda leader's location.

"Absolutely," Bush said.

The president made the comments Wednesday in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.
Although Pakistan has said it won't allow U.S. troops to operate within its territory, "we would take the action necessary to bring him to justice."

But Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, told reporters Wednesday at the United Nations that his government would oppose any U.S. action in