PEACE, OUT

Come Harvest Time
by Glen Campbell

Planted by God
In a field without worth
We are but seeds in His eyes
So He nurtures with grace
And His hands work the earth
That His fruit may be sanc-ti-fied
Come harvest time

Come harvest time
What thanksgiving we will show
When the Plowman bri-ings freedom
From the earth here below
Come harvest time
Oh what jo-oy will be known
When He gathers the sou-ouls
Of the seeds He ha-as sown

So when doubt dries the land
Or the cold war wi-inds blow
When the floods of indiff'ence rise
Oh the roots that faith grew
Will kee-eep us strong
'Til our last sunset leaves the sky
Come harvest time

Come harvest time
What thanksgiving we will show
When the Plowman bri-ings freedom
From the earth here below
Come harvest time
Oh what jo-oy will be known
When He gathers the sou-ouls
Of the seeds He has sown

Read the Carlos & Alex Arredondo story. Jesus... It just breaks my heart.

And all for a lie.

Congresswoman Lynn Woolsey has a diary up at dailykos asking for our support on a hearing that she has scheduled for next Tuesday on the continuing occupation of Iraq.

It's in danger of dropping of the recent list before making it to the recommended list over there.

Also she's inviting any DC area bloggers who may want to attend to contact her office for an invite.

Please go give the diary a recommend ASAP.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/22/125253/526

Totally OT but just for future reference material -- here's a diagram of the Bush dynasty relationships based on Kevin Philip's book, American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush.

From quiddity at uggabugga, hattip to Atrios / Eschaton

http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/2004_01_11_uggabugga_archive.html#107412832339714798

Someone who attends the WH press gaggle briefings with Tony Snow posts about an exchange he had in which Tony declares that the President, not the Supreme Court, has the final say on what’s Constitutional.

~snip~

Me: But isn’t it the Supreme Court that’s supposed to decide whether laws are unconstitutional or not?

Tony: No, as a matter of fact the president has an obligation to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States. That is an obligation that presidents have enacted through signing statements going back to Jefferson. So, while the Supreme Court can be an arbiter of the Constitution, the fact is the President is the one, the only person who, by the Constitution, is given the responsibility to preserve, protect, and defend that document, so it is perfectly consistent with presidential authority under the Constitution itself.
~snip~

read the entire exchange here...
http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1451

Robertson: "[A] holy war between Islam and Christianity" is "going to come"

During a segment on the September 19 edition of the Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club about Pope Benedict XVI's recent controversial comments about Islam and Al Qaeda's reaction, host Pat Robertson stated:
"[W]e understand the leaders of Al Qaeda are calling for a holy war between Islam and Christianity. It's going to come, ladies and gentlemen."

As Media Matters for America noted, Robertson stated on the August 29 edition of The 700 Club that "Osama bin Laden may be one of the true disciples of the teaching of the Quran ... because he's following through literally word-for-word what it says." Robertson added: "Islam is not a religion of peace. No way."

From the September 19 edition of the Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club:

ROBERTSON: When somebody gives the clear, historic record and just says, "Let's have a dialogue," that person is set up for death. And now we understand the leaders of Al Qaeda are calling for a holy war between Islam and Christianity. It's going to come, ladies and gentlemen, and I hope that those of you who care about this pope will support him. He's a wonderful man."

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fmediamatters.org%2Fitems%2F200609210004

Otter,

I agree with Casey from the last thread. If you have the chance to meet Ann Wright run--don't walk!

Let me tell you that she sticks by her guns. She is smart and dedicated. If you saw any of her speaches you would know and understand the fire that burns in her belly and you would be honored to be fighting along side her.

The constitution does not require a specfic oath of office for the senate however the senate has enacted its own oath and it is the body charged in the constitution with making the laws the president promises to uphold so not only the supreme court but the senate has the right to say stop. Our constitution made no one person a God or a king. 3 coequal branches of government, what part of that does this administration need clarified? evedently they do not have the comprehension of a small child.

Robertson added: "Islam is not a religion of peace. No way."

Posted by: monkey at September 22, 2006 03:25 PM

If so, then neither is the variety of Christianity that Robertson himself preaches.

Don't let the extremist death cultists redefine religion - Islam, Christianity, or any other faith - for their own wicked ends.

Posted by: april at September 22, 2006 04:19 PM

April,

It's just like my 'fundie' sister in law telling me that our country was founded on religion instead of understanding that it was founded on the right to practice your own religion without state's interference.

via americablog, Keith Olberman has a clip of Congressman Tim Ryan followed by a discussion of Ryan's message.

Rep. Ryan has the message right.

Listen and watch it here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zU1HUp-7Ti8&eurl=

Gee whiskers, y'all. Am I the only one here who believes that the entire Bush administration ought to be subject to immediate and mandatory drug testing, not to mention mental health profiling?

Surely no sane or sober person could ever come up with one-tenth of the nonsense that they spew forth like a noxious cloud of industrial pollution every minute of the day.

I mean, it's bad enough that so many of the sheeple aren't sane or sober enough to see through all the repos' crap, but they're only working with limited and distorted data sets at best. The people on the other side of the Neo Curtain have access to actual -- dare I say it -- *facts*, and therefore can be reasonably expected to know better.

::shaking head in wonderment::

rethuglicana delenda est,
Otter

I just dropped Helga Aguayo at the airport because she is going back to be with her daughters and await Agustin's next step. Helga is a lovely centered and grounded woman; one of those people you meet and care about immediately.

Please let others know about this case, which may well become the first Conscientious Objector case heard in federal court since 1971. What would be really interesting would be for him to win. If the courts tell the U.S. Army they have done this illegally (tried to send a CO back to Iraq), it will be a strike for justice and a serious statement about the rights of citizens.

Karen,

Thanks for filling us in, for all the hard work and exhausting hours you've spent, and for all the great links.

I so wished I could have been there with you all. Life is just too frantic and there was just no way. I would have preferred being there, to here!!!

I'm sickened and frightened by all this administration has done and is doing, and I don't know nearly as much as you do. I can't imagine how you sleep.

Thanks for all your actions on my, and all of our behalves.

Hey, Karen, I'll go behalvsies with Carol on that.

I am sleeping like the exhausted, concerned, overstretched mom I am. Which is to say there are not nearly enough aromatherapy massages in my life, but at least I am learning about how this government is (not) working.

I want you all to know that coming here and blogging is a lot like putting my feet up after a very long day and sharing the tales of the day with family. You all fill me up too.

Posted by: monkey at September 22, 2006 03:25 PM
Posted by: Rachel at September 22, 2006 04:21 PM

All this holy way, clash of civilizations, etc. talk really freaks me out. I posted the other day the link to Fresh Air's Terry Gross' interview with Max Blumenthal and Pastor John Hagee. He's a rapture kind of guy, and he is one powerful individual, including connections to Bush.

He's an evenagelical leader. I think he's a cult leader, but whatever he is, he seems to be teaching his large international congregation that it's all about preserving Israel, no matter what that takes, and that includes the distruction, not only of our "enemies", but of our own country. It's scary as hell.

Not sure you want to listen, but here is the link again:
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=13&prgDate=18-Sep-06

If the torture bill, which includes the exemptions from prosecution, passes... Bu$h becomes the dictator in fact, the moral arbiter for saying what's right and what's not right. He will have gotten exactly what he wanted, in other words.... See link for full story; I only copied and pasted the sections that made my brain turn into screaming mush....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_go_co/congress_terrorism

Interrogations deal grants Bush leeway

WASHINGTON - A Republican deal on terrorism trials and interrogations would give President Bush wide latitude to interpret standards for prisoner treatment, even though it doesn't include a provision he wanted on the Geneva Conventions.

The resulting legislation, if passed next week by Congress as Republicans hope, would revive the CIA's terrorist interrogation program because it would reduce the risk that agency workers could be found guilty of war crimes.

The deal also could open the door to aggressive techniques that test the bounds of international standards of prisoner treatment.

"The key to this deal will be whether Congress exercises real oversight over the CIA interrogation program," said California Rep. Jane Harman (news, bio, voting record), who as the top Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee has been briefed on how the CIA handles terrorism suspects.

The GOP bill outlines specific war crimes such as torture and rape, but it also says the president can "interpret the meaning and application" of the Geneva Convention standards to less severe interrogation procedures. Such a provision is intended to allow him to authorize methods that might otherwise be seen as illegal by international courts.
~~~~~
But enough legal parsing was added to the bill to achieve the president's desired effect anyway.

The Republican bill provides legal protection for the CIA program by precisely defining and enumerating atrocities widely accepted as war crimes — including torture, rape, biological experiments, and cruel and inhuman treatment.

For acts that do not rise to the level of a war crime but may test the bounds of the Geneva Conventions, the GOP bill allows the president to make the call.

The net effect is to raise the legal bar on war crime violations, making it tougher to prosecute a U.S. official unless the act meets those definitions.

"It sounds like the administration got a pretty good deal actually" because it would reinstate the president's prerogative, said John Yoo, a former Justice Department lawyer who helped write internal memos in 2002 designed to give the government more leeway in aggressive questioning of suspects.
~~~~~
But, legal experts agree, in the end it will be up to the president to determine when most interrogation methods go too far. The bill bans detainees from protesting their detention and treatment in court.

"You always run into the potential ... that we're going to go back to secret prisons and bad things will happen," said John Hutson, a former Navy judge advocate general. "And there's really not a way in legislation to make sure that doesn't happen."

Hutson, who staunchly opposed the administration's initial legal proposal, said he believes the administration intends to "interpret the words in good faith."
~~~~~
But regarding the CIA program and "the protection of their people, this does the right thing and it does protect them," said Hunter, R-Calif.

I hear America crying

I hear America crying
Posted by: Otter at September 22, 2006 07:34 PM

Misery loves company.

I thought it was only my supersonic screams filling the air... I can't hear anything else right now.

If I can stop crying to avoid my tears shorting out the keyboard, I'm sending that story along with my "demand" that my senators and representative vote against that horror of a bill.

This is also personal. My youngest nephew is in Afghanistan. If he ends up in the wrong place and the wrong time and is captured, there is nothing to stop anyone from doing to him what the Torturer-in-Chief has sanctioned be done unto others that he has allowed to be kept in illegal prisons and at Gitmo and wherever else 'secret' prisons are sanctioned by him and his Criminal Cabal....

Cry on....

U.S. fatalities in war equal those from Sept. 11
Military deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan reach 2,973

Updated: 29 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AP) - Now the death toll is 9/11 times two.

U.S. military deaths from Iraq and Afghanistan now match those of the most devastating terrorist attack in America’s history, the trigger for what came next. Add casualties from chasing terrorists elsewhere in the world, and the total has passed the Sept. 11 figure.

The latest milestone for a country at war comes without commemoration. It also may well come without the precision of knowing who is the 2,973rd man or woman of arms to die in conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan, or just when it happens. The terrorist attacks killed 2,973 victims in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.

Not for the first time, war that was started to answer death has resulted in at least as much death for the country that was first attacked, quite apart from the higher numbers of enemy and civilians killed, too.

Historians note that this grim accounting is not how the success or failure of warfare is measured, and that the reasons for conflict are broader than what served as the spark.

The body count from World War II was far higher for Allied troops than for the crushed Axis. Americans lost more men in each of a succession of Pacific battles than the 2,390 people who died at Pearl Harbor in the attack that made the U.S. declare war on Japan. The U.S. lost 405,399 in the theaters of World War II.

Milestone overlooked
Despite a death toll that pales next to that of the great wars, one casualty milestone after another has been observed and reflected upon this time, especially in Iraq.

There was the benchmark of seeing more U.S. troops die in the occupation than in the swift and successful invasion. And the benchmarks of 1,000 dead, 2,000, 2,500.

Now this.

“There’s never a good war but if the war’s going well and the overall mission remains powerful, these numbers are not what people are focusing on,” said Julian Zelizer, a political historian at Boston University. “If this becomes the subject, then something’s gone wrong.”

Beyond the tribulations of the moment and the now-rampant doubts about the justification and course of the Iraq war, Zelizer said Americans have lost firsthand knowledge of the costs of war that existed keenly up to the 1960s, when people remembered two world wars and Korea, and faced Vietnam.

“A kind of numbness comes from that,” he said. “We’re not that country anymore — more bothered, more nervous. This isn’t a country that’s used to ground wars anymore.”

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14959937/

We're not that country anymore -- less honorable, less ethical.

But they still hate us for our freedoms. What's up with that?

Oh, yeah, got it -- it's all part of Shrubya's plan to make our country safe from them pesky terra-ists.

Take away our freedoms, then they won't have any more reason to hate us, so they'll leave us alone.

Piece of cake.

my country 'twas of thee,
Otter

Posted by: monkey at September 22, 2006 09:00 PM

And the Supreme Irony...?

Neither country had one damned thing to do with planning or executing what the hijackers did on 9/11. True, Afghanistan harbored OBL, a Saudi, for a time, but it's doubtful he's still there (last I read he "may" be in Pakistan - doesn't matter; Bush doesn't give a rat's ass where OBL is, and isn't the slightest bit interested in spending money for law enforcement officials to find OBL anyway - he's more valuable as a free man so the US propaganda machine can keep scaring sheeple with the threat of 'ter-rirists'). But the leaders of both countries had nothing whatsoever to do with actually planning 9/11.

What's it all about, Alfie...?

PNAC objectives; control of the world's oil reserves (and pipelies across countries that do not have oil), control of the world's economy (which also buys/makes the most bombs and military weapons)... which results in world dictatorship....

Listening to "No Woman No Cry" by Bob Marley - sitting facing Haight Street, in the Peace Cafe which is part of the Red Victorian which is a B&B devoted to peace. It's affiliated with others in a number of countries. This part of SF is still alive with several generations of resistors to the warmongering and profiteering system. Alternative lifestyles are alive but also activism. There is a brightly painted bus parked right outside and it's full of people from Ontario. There will be alot of people who have just come from Burning Man, in the desert, & there will be alot of political stuff at the LoveFest, which is an offspring of the Berlin Love Festival. It will crisscross with an antiwar demonstration and we will partake tomorrow of both. There are hundreds of thousands of "extras" here anyway - we saw Code Pink people getting out of the plane with us at Oakland. There is a blues festival, two huge concerts, Run for the Cure, Cowboys vs 49ers game, Folsom St Leather/Fetish Parade & Chinatown Moon Festival (celebrated all over Asia but new here). We're lucky to have chosen this weekend to come, but smart to be operating without a car.

May the spirit of Love and Peace that permeates this area live forever and spread outward. One way to beat them is to not join them. I just read some of Thailand's constitution and it is one of the most progressive ever written, according to the article.

I hope something happens to keep ours from being totally trashed. I saw a poster down the street about Bush & Armageddon. I am sort of eavesdropping on conversations along with the Bob Marley and guess what I'm hearing - Bush bashing. I was doing photography and there were many signs promoting a student walkout, grassroots style.

On the way here, I continued to read from "Mexico City Reader." Remember back in about 1996 when the "Chubacabra" craze was going around? There was even an X Files episode about it. Goats were found with mysterious slashes in their throats. Well the myth or meme got going that Mexico's prime minister was the Chubacabra and slashing the throat of Mexico's economy & sucking the blood out. It spread virally and soon there was street theater everywhere - the Prime Minister had to go to Ireland in exile.

It occurred to me that Chavez could speak to this crowd with his comments about Bush as devil. I believe it was Otter who said Chavez was speaking to his base. Well reading more about the mentality and mythology of the southern region of our hemisphere, I believe the image of a leader as a devil could spread in a different way than we are used to. Scary things and death are appreciated on one level in some cultures such as Mexico. After 9/11, Bin Laden masks were the most popular at Halloween, even the Halloween right after the attack. That would be uncool in US.

When Reagan said that he just signed a bill outlawing the Soviet Union and the bombing wouold start in 5 minutes - I presume he was joking. Yet in Mexico City, there was a huge petro plant explosion and some people thought it was an atomic bomb - didn't realize Reagan wasn't joking (he was wasn't he?!)

Well I'll sign off & do some reading and roaming.

Karen
I heard Carlos' father on Democracy Now. Have been thinking about them ever since. Thanks for the report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_re_us/us_chavez

Chavez to discount oil for U.S. poor

NEW YORK - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez visited a Harlem church Thursday and promised to more than double the amount of discounted heating oil his country ships to needy Americans. He also took another swipe at President Bush.

A day after he called Bush "the devil" in a speech to the United Nations, Chavez said of the president: "He's an alcoholic and a sick man."
~~~~~
He called Bush's policies in Iraq criminal, adding he hopes Americans will soon "awaken" and elect a better president. While he opposes Bush, Chavez said the American people "are our friends."

He announced that Citgo, the U.S.-based refining arm of Venezuela's state-run oil company, plans to more than double the amount of heating oil it is making available under the program for low-income families to 100 million gallons this winter, up from 40 million gallons.

Chavez started the heating oil program last winter, accusing Bush of neglecting the poor.
~~~~~
Chavez said some people have warned him about his safety after he called Bush "the devil."

"They've told me since last night, because I said he was a devil ... to be careful, because they could kill me," Chavez said, without elaborating. "I'm in the hands of God. I'm not afraid."
~~~~~
The United States continues to be the top buyer of Venezuelan oil, bringing the South American country billions of dollars in earnings that help fund Chavez's popular social programs.

Chavez's opponents accuse him of squandering Venezuela's oil wealth through preferential oil deals overseas. But Chavez said he is giving away nothing, and that Venezuela also gains by receiving everything from cattle to medical equipment in exchange for oil shipments to Latin American countries.

Citgo said its discounted heating oil will benefit some 1.2 million Americans in 17 U.S. states this winter, including Indians in Alaska, some of whom were flown to New York and attended the ceremony in traditional dress. They performed a dance and offered Chavez a walrus figurine carved out of whale bone as a gift.

"This will go a long way for a lot of families," said Ian Erlich, a leader of the Alaska Intertribal Council who said many struggle to afford heating oil where he lives in Kotzebue, Alaska, north of the Artic Circle.

While the program started mainly in the Northeast last winter, this winter it is being expanded to Alaska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, Virginia, Maryland, and the cities of Washington, D.C., and Pittsburgh, Pa.

{{{Click on link for more. Whatever else, pro or con, that can be said of Chavez in the war of words between him and the Bu$h administration (and those who support Herr Boosh, our Torturer-in-Chief), at least it must be admitted that Chavez cares for common people a heckuva lot more than Herr Boosh - if not for real, at least Chavez has a good way of manipulating us with cheaper oil... and, hey, using as English as a second language, at least Chavez can speak more coherently than Dumbya, and he did speak the truth about Herr Boosh (alcoholic, sick man, devil, i.e. evil personified)....}}}

No More Trouble

(We don't need) No, we don't need (no more trouble) no more trouble!
(We don't need no more trouble)

Wo! Oh-oh-oh!
(We don't need) We don't need no (no more) trouble!
We don't need no trouble!

(We don't need no more trouble)
Make love and not war! 'Cause we don't need no trouble.
What we need is love (love)
To guide and protect us on. (on)
If you hope good down from above, (love)
Help the weak if you are strong now. (love)

We don't need no trouble;
What we need is love. Oh, no!
We don't need - we don't need - no more trouble!
Lord knows, we don't need no trouble!

(We don't need) We don't need trouble (no more trouble) -
no more trouble - no more trouble!
Seek happiness! (...) Oh, ...!
Come on, you all and speak of love. (...) Oh, yeah!

We don't need no trouble;
What we need is love, now. (What we need is love!)
(We don't need) Oh, we don't need no more trouble!
We don't need, no - we don't need no trouble!
We don't (need) - no, brothers and sisters ... (no more trouble!)

We don't need no trouble; we don't need no trouble!
We don't need no trouble!
What we need is love!

We don't need - we don't need no more - we don't need -
no more trouble - we don't need no more trouble!
Trouble we don't need (we don't need),
(We don't need) Lord, knows! -
we don't need no more war (no more trouble).
No more trouble - we don't need no more - more trouble! [fadeout]

Listening to "One Love" - someone is tuning a banjo for live music. Just read a headline that said "GOP Upbeat About Terror Trials Bill" - how can someone be "upbeat" about torture? Only that crew.

Highly Recommended Reading....

Compact with Evil: The McCain "Compromise" on Bush's Torture Program
By Chris Floyd
After George Bush's Rose Garden hissy fit, in which he declared that he would simply stop interrogating suspected terrorists unless he could torture them, John "I Only Flip-Flop On Matters of Deep Principle" McCain
and the other so-called "Senate rebels" have capitulated to the unpopular president's petulant demands.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15064.htm
Excerpts:
When Bush and Tennessee cat-torturer talk about the "program of interrogation" continuing, they mean allowing the CIA to torture captives by various methods without being charged with war crimes and felony violations of American law. That is precisely what they are talking about, and nothing else.
~~~~~
And let's put this other point plainly one more time: the American government has always been able to capture, detain, question and try terrorists. Always. The American government has for 28 years had the power to eavesdrop on anyone in the world or in the country whom they suspected even slightly of terrorism or terrorist connections. And they could and can do that instantly, without waiting for a court order or jumping through any bureaucratic hoops, under the long-existing law. Everything that Bush says his clearly illegal surveillance programs do can already be done within the law. Therefore, it is clear that the whole raison d'etre behind the illegal programs is to establish the principle that the president is beyond the law. (And also, almost certainly, to perform illegal surveillance that has nothing to do with terrorism.)

{{{So, go ahead, Herr Boosh... I double-dog-dare-ya to give the order.... Quit interrogating [i.e. torturing]"suspects"...!!!}}}

The Heart of “Terror”
By: Bill Noxid
This is not a struggle… it is already done. The World has decided. The World is self-aware and has already decided what the future is. We, as Americans, have to graciously accept that. No war will change the nature of this reality. Bombing one more country’s infrastructure will not make us one more friend and it’s time we accept and understand that.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15069.htm

Iraq is Bush’s Reflection Pond
By Mike Whitney
Martial law is not liberation. In the last two months, the number of dead appearing at the Baghdad morgue has skyrocketed; nearly 6,600 Iraqis brutally tortured and killed in July and August alone. In terms of population, this is the equivalent of 79,200 American casualties. Simply put, it is a massacre.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15070.htm

War Signals?:
The Bush Administration and the Pentagon have issued orders for a major "strike group" of ships, including the nuclear aircraft carrier Eisenhower as well as a cruiser, destroyer, frigate, submarine escort and supply ship, to head for the Persian Gulf, just off Iran's western coast.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15061.htm
{{{Camp Democracy and Ray McGovern are also mentioned in this article. If the entirety of this article has any relevance, then the "October surprise" may be an escalation of the current war in Iraq... and beyond....}}}

A Courageous Man Speaks Out :
Hugo Chavez is dedicated to the principles and spirit of the Bolivarian Revolution he gave the people of Venezuela and wants to spread it to the developing world as a counter-force to the US model of global dominance of the developed North over the less-developed South with the US as hegemon-in-chief.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15062.htm
Excerpt:
In the book, Chomsky cites the work of Ernst Mayr whom he describes as "one of the great figures of contemporary biology." Mayr noted that beetles and bacteria have been far more successful surviving than the human species is likely to be. He also observed that "the average life expectancy of a species is about 100,000 years" which is about how long ours has been around, and he went on to wonder if we might use our "alloted time" to destroy ourselves and much more with us. Chomsky then noted we certainly have the means to do it, and should it happen, which he says is very possible, we likely will become the only species ever to have made itself extinct.

Hugo Chavez also could have explained what Chomsky had to say about this possibility in his most recent book, Failed States, in which he addresses the three issues he feels are most important - "the threat of nuclear war, environmental disaster, and the fact that the government of the world's only superpower is acting in ways that increase the likelihood of (causing) these catastrophes." Chomsky goes even further raising a fourth issue that the "American system" is in danger of losing its "historic values (of) equality, liberty and meaningful democracy (because of the course it's on)."

There is only one reason prisoners are whisked off to other countries:
To allow the CIA to use what President Bush euphemistically calls “alternative interrogation” methods outside the reach of U.S. law.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/22/torture_exhibit_a.php

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/uclickcomics/20060922/cx_nq_uc/nq20060922
Non Sequitur

Hugo Chavez is a dangerously unstable individual.

Of course, even dangerously unstable individuals can be right sometimes.

And this particular dangerously unstable individual is also gathering a lot of converts in a dangerously unstable part of the world.

/me sees trouble brewing on the southern horizon here.

Karen, your thread header was absolutely, without doubt, the richest article I have read so far on this blog. And that is quite a feat, because I have read so many exellent headers and posts.

Thank you for what you do, and for who you are (your character and passion and hard work during your life has made you such an asset).

Your article touched me very deeply.

The New York Times | A Bad Bargain
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206J.shtml
The New York Times editors write: "Here is a way to measure how seriously President Bush was willing to compromise on the military tribunals bill: Less than an hour after an agreement was announced yesterday with three leading Republican senators, the White House was already laying a path to wiggle out of its one real concession."

Patrick McElwee | The Power of Public Opinion
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206K.shtml
Patrick McElwee writes: "In the past few weeks, we've been reminded that public opinion can constrain the actions of government officials who seek to bring us into conflict with other nations. The Bush administration's attempt to pressure Congress into granting it immunity to abuse and torture detainees - not only in the future but also for acts committed over the last five years - has been slowed and may be halted."

Robert Parry | Bush Shields Dad on Chile Terrorism
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206M.shtml
Robert Perry writes, "Chilean investigators say the Bush administration is undercutting their case against former dictator Augusto Pinochet for his alleged role in the terrorist assassination of a political rival on the streets of Washington three decades ago, a crime that then-CIA Director George H.W. Bush appears to have tolerated and then helped cover-up."

UN Rights Envoys Condemn Bush Plan on Interrogation
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206N.shtml
United Nations human rights investigators said on Thursday that legislation proposed by President Bush for tough interrogations of foreign terrorism suspects would breach the Geneva Conventions. Washington's admission of secret detention centers abroad pointed to very serious human rights violations in relation to the hunt for alleged terrorists.

Bill Clinton Warns Against Torture Approval
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206E.shtml
Former US president Bill Clinton criticized Bush administration proposals for treating suspected terrorists, saying it would be unnecessary and wrong to give broad approval to torture and that any decision to use harsh treatment in interrogating suspects should be subject to court review.

David Swanson | Nuclear Winter, Global Warming, or Impeachment
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206F.shtml
"What we need is action, and this is the week for it," writes David Swanson. "The Declaration of Peace has organized massive plans for civil disobedience. And, in a nod to our national insanity and future genocides, the Declaration of Peace - although begun by religious groups - is largely refraining from promoting religion."

Libby Fundraiser Working for Lieberman
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206G.shtml
Mel Sembler, who is board chairman of the Sembler Company, a real estate and shopping center development company, said he has worked hard to raise money for I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's legal defense fund. Sembler describes himself as "dear friends" with Cheney. Tammy Sun, a spokeswoman for Lieberman, said the Lieberman campaign is "grateful for Mel Sembler's support."

Dahr Jamail | AP Propaganda About Iraq
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206A.shtml
Dahr Jamail explains: "According to Webster's Third New International Dictionary, an insurgent is 'a person who rises in revolt against civil authority or an established government: [a] rebel.' This of course begs the existence of a legitimately elected government that the 'insurgent' rises in revolt against, which in Iraq we do not have. How is it possible to have a legitimate government in a country that was first illegally invaded and today is illegally occupied?"

National Guard to Be Further Stretched by Iraq, Afghan Wars
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206B.shtml
Strains on the Army from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have become so severe that Army officials say they may be forced to make greater use of the National Guard to provide enough troops for overseas deployments.

Pentagon's 9/11 Claim Debunked by Inspector General
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206C.shtml
The Defense Department's inspector general on Thursday dismissed claims by military officers and others, who had insisted that a secret Pentagon program identified Mohamed Atta and other terrorists involved in the September 11 attacks before the attacks occurred.

1,100 Laptops Missing From Commerce Department
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206R.shtml
More than 1,100 laptop computers have vanished from the Department of Commerce since 2001, including nearly 250 from the Census Bureau containing such personal information as names, incomes and Social Security numbers, federal officials said yesterday.

Bush's No Child Left Behind Act Is Illegal
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/092206S.shtml
A scorching internal review of the Bush administration's reading program says the Education Department ignored the law and ethical standards to steer money how it wanted. Reading First, a billion-dollar program each year, has been beset by conflicts of interest and willful mismanagement. The report suggests the department broke the law by trying to dictate which curriculum schools must use.

The "major" news that will be the "major" distraction from the torture bill and the minds of the sheeple off of exempting torturers and those who ordered the torture from prosecution for war crimes - until after the insane torture bill is passed sometime next week....

Report of the death of Osama bin Laden from typhoid about a month ago (give or take).

I've heard the story on two morning shows.

Whatever....

Nonny,

Just in time for election season, eh?

How convenient of him to "die" right now.

If it's true that OBL is indeed dead (& not only merely dead [he's]really most sincerely dead ...)

I don't see how this benefits George & his band of merry Republicans. Unless of course, they claim that the CIA infected him with tyhoid.

And doesn't really bring closure because they let him get away...even with death.

Besides, remember that George has said in public that he's 'not being that concerned about him'; it should be easy to deny him any bragging rights.

One more thought...

If catching OBL was Rove's (lame & totally expected) "October surprise", funny that the French ruined it for him...

Posted by: madame defarge at September 23, 2006 09:47 AM

md,

I think it benefits them because it takes away the dems ability to use OBL as a tool against Bush. Dems won't be able to say anymore - "where's Osama? He's still out there". And that will now be true, unless we can prove that he is indeed NOT dead.

And - in the minds of the sheeple, that OBL problem will be solved and no longer an issue.

Posted by: Carol at September 23, 2006 10:11 AM

Yeah, but they won't have a boogie man anymore. So who are they going to blame the war etc. on?

Yeah, but they won't have a boogie man anymore. So who are they going to blame the war etc. on?

Posted by: madame defarge at September 23, 2006 10:18 AM

If Osama is dead and that is a big IF it hands the terrorists a huge win he becomes a Martyr who beat the Americans and was struck down by illness not us. All our resources money and Military were unable to nab him, it was his time and God called him home. Think about it.

If this was Roves Oct. Surprise how in the heck could they have used this, unless they were going to once again lie about how he was got. Maybe they were going to claim we killed him.

Then again most of us are thinking Americans we see how this is not our victory but God's those who support Bush can find a way to make anything their victory and the press will follow along.

If he's dead, that means that he successfully evaded justice.

April & Matthew -

I agree. We're saying the same thing in various ways.

I wondered if anyone is interested in irc'ing tonight. I'm going to be doing election precinct type stuff and it'd be great to have so input from all of you in how I'm doing.

I'd love to hear your stories too.

Anyone game?

If I am reading things right the info on Bin Laden came from the Saudis I think they would know since he is one of theirs. Evidently they notified the French that they believed he was dead or dying. Does anyone believe that given their ties to Bush they failed to notify us also? The question is why were we the American people not told that they suspected his death and were looking into it. They also say they want to know where his body is burried before confirming anything. (the Saudis that is.

It also explains Bush using his name 7 thousand times on Sept 11 as this evidently was told to the french at the end of Aug. the beginning of Sept. So it stands to reason Bush was not afraid as he has been in the past to mention his name for fear he would be attacked by the rest of us for not getting him, this Sept 11 marked the most Bush has mentioned Bin Laden since 2001. makes one think huh, I am really sick of this Administration using information that would be of importance to most Americans for their own gain its getting really old.

One more thing if he is dead he had time to pass on the mantle of leadership to someone else therefor his death because it was not sudden gave us no advantage in the war on terror.

The Washington Post has a good Op Ed today about the terrorists do not ask if you are Democrat or Republican and do not care what color you are.

The Washington Post has a good Op Ed today about the terrorists do not ask if you are Democrat or Republican and do not care what color you are.

Posted by: april at September 23, 2006 11:32 AM

That should come as a shock to the Republicans, who are well convinced that the terra-ists hate Republicans more than "Defeatocrats."

After all, the Republicans think they alone stand for American freedoms, and Dems stand for less of it and more gov't control.

We know better than that.

Here comes the sun, here comes the sun,
and I say it's all right

Little darling, it's been a long cold lonely winter
Little darling, it feels like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun
and I say it's all right

Little darling, the smiles returning to the faces
Little darling, it seems like years since it's been here
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun
and I say it's all right

Sun, sun, sun, here it comes...
Sun, sun, sun, here it comes...
Sun, sun, sun, here it comes...
Sun, sun, sun, here it comes...
Sun, sun, sun, here it comes...

Little darling, I feel that ice is slowly melting
Little darling, it seems like years since it's been clear
Here comes the sun, here comes the sun,
and I say it's all right
It's all right

http://www.correntewire.com/osama_bin_laden_superstar

Clever

TIme for free breakfast here at the Peace Cafe - chocolate croissants & cappucino and "Conversation Cafe" - where we
will all discuss .. something (it's facilitated)

When I used to be a regular at johnkerry.com, there was a guy I used to debate with some & he was an organizer for Dean. We never alienated each other though and I still get his mailings. He sent one out to many people asking what to do about torture. He felt Molly Ivins eventually provided the best answer (in her column). I'm going to post it here & I'm going to clean up the profanity, though it's not mine, with an asterisk.

This is from John:

Now, in addition to the slightly surreal awakening to find we live in a country that's having a serious debate on a torture bill, can we do anything about it? The answer is: We better. We better do something about it. Now, right away. What do we do? The answer is: anything ... phone, fax, e-mail, mail, demonstrate -- go stand outside their offices or the nearest federal building in the cold and sing hymns or shout rude slogans, chant or make a speech, or start attacking federal property, like a postal box, so they have to arrest you. Gather peacefully and make a lot of noise. Get publicity, too.

How will you feel if you didn't do something? "Well, honey, when the United States decided to adopt torture as an official policy, I was dipping the dog for ticks."

As Ann Richards used to say, "I don't want my tombstone to read: 'She kept a clean house.'"

See Molly's whole column here: http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=miv

And I'm so sorry to have to ask: where the hell are the Democrats? Could it be time for Reid, Pelosi, Dean, or SOMEone to hold a press conference to say "No. F*cking. Way." And how about the media? Why is this not "Day 973 of the US becoming a nation that will defend its right to torture people"? This, THIS is business as usual?
--
We are f*cking torturing people. In our secret prisons. And calmly debating making it standard US policy. You okay with that???

Posted by: DiAnne in SF at September 23, 2006 11:53 AM

Clever...yep.

Peace cafe sounds great! Glad you're having fun.

Posted by: DiAnne in SF at September 23, 2006 12:06 PM

Clearly what we're doing isn't enough, right? I mean...I'm not used to 'confronting' my inlaws, but nobody can't say that I didn't lay it on the line with them. Will they speak to me again? Who knows. At this point, I don't care because I'm tired of their Christian hypocracy. Join the Christian left--who knows right from wrong. I've sent them sojourners. I've made it plain that it's not just Republican or Democratic. It's right and wrong!

Yes...there are different ideas of right and wrong, but how can anyone be on different sides of torture and war if they're Christians?

However, I feel good about my friend in DC who I mentioned yesterday. At least she now gets it.

And meeting Carlos and seeing his Camp Alex made a huge impact on her. She may not go pound the streets, but if she goes and votes for a peacemaker, then it's a step forward.

sparrow never used irc and don't know what it means when it says client and whether I have Java on my computer.curious how campaigning in Michigan is going how-- do I get started on IRC. I have registered my name there just can't figure out slang or how to send my text there.

Posted by: Ira at September 23, 2006 07:30 PM

Oh wow! Ira. Ok. so you click on the discuss tab above and it will drop down and you'll see, "Live Chat"

Click on it.

A new window will open up and it will have a little box--enter your name in that box--then click on the button below the box. I think it says start chat.

Then wait just a few and you'll see it open up to a little screen and it should show some names. And it will give you a welcome message. You type in the long rectangular bar that is towards the bottom of the screen and it's white.

when I type in the long white bar how do I then send my communications sparrow? what do I hit after I type in the long white bar? feel like I am almost in the irc. just showing my computer illiteracy.

Under the "if it bleeds, it leads" media mantra, the only thing that trumped the rumor that OBL is dead on one in-state channel for local news was the death of a woman and a man (with four kids in the house - kids are alive) in southern MN - a fellow who had a restraining order against him, he'd been arrested for breaking into the woman's house before, had been an ex-boyfriend of the woman, had recently been stalking her and she'd called law enforcement and/or prosecutors and was in the process of trying to get him arrested again - all complicated by the fact he is from WI. The other channel I caught had info about a possible tornado touchdown (everyone's jumpy about sudden tornados now because a 10-yr. old girl was killed in the last one that formed out of nowhere about 10 p.m. at night, destroyed lots of stuff in an 8-mile path), and then they turned to the OBL story.

I'm writing another email to our "esteemed" (NOT) media.....

enter, now I see.

ira.

You're doing great. Type and then hit the enter key. (or return key as some people call it.)

I can see you!

Posted by: NonnyO at September 23, 2006 07:54 PM

Good job nonnyo!

You people really ought to stop picking on the Shrubyazoids about their happy shiny torture policies.

Everything they've done to people in the name of fighting the war on Terra, not to mention everything they're still doing and everything they're going to keep on doing, is completely 100% in keeping with both the letter *and* the spirit of the standards set by the Convention...

The Republican Convention, that is, not that pesky ol' Geneva one.

free societies ensuring human dignity in captivity is, like, *so* last century,
Otter

I spent a small amount of time reminding my fellow organizers about the six phases of a project:

1. Enthusiasm
2. Disillusionment
3. Panic
4. Search for the Guilty
5. Punishment of the Innocent
6. Praise and Honors for the Non-Participants

loved this tibit

September 24, 2006
Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat
By MARK MAZZETTI

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.

The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House documents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final document.

The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. Titled “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.

An opening section of the report, “Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement,” cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.

The report “says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse,” said one American intelligence official.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/world/middleeast/24terror.html

Peeps: Sorry this is so long... BUT, I'm pissed and I had a go at Lamestream Media and our dimwits in Congress!!!

"Dear" Media -

Do we really want to go down that path to an official unitary executive dictatorship, complete with LEGALIZED TORTURE being committed in our nation, on our military bases, or approved of elsewhere in the world by the "leaders" of this nation, all done in *our* names, if our senators and representatives approve the TORTURE BILL, and make themselves liable for the same WAR CRIMES that have already been committed by George W. Bush and his administration...? Do we really want to obliterate the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Geneva Conventions, and all the other legal protections and amendments we have taken for granted for 230 years?!?

Does anyone not get just exactly how absolutely ludicrous this proposed TORTURE legislation is, along with the legal ramifications thereof?!?

This is what is completely incomprehensible: HOW CAN CONGRESS THINK ABOUT OR EVEN DISCUSS LEGALIZING TORTURE, WHICH IS ALREADY ILLEGAL UNDER THE US CONSTITUTION, US LAW, TREATIES THAT ARE PART OF US LAW, AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS, OR 'DISCUSS' OR 'DEBATE' EXEMPTING FROM PROSECUTION THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY AUTHORIZED OR COMMITTED WAR CRIMES - AND WORSE, ADD THEIR OWN NAMES TO THE LIST OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE AUTHORIZED THOSE SAME WAR CRIMES?!?!?

TORTURE, and whether or not the United States of America remains a republic (at least in theory, now that the balance of power is gone), or whether or not the United States of America officially becomes a UNITARY EXECUTIVE DICTATORSHIP under George W. Bush... THAT is now the #1 ISSUE for this fall's election...!!! This coming week, Congress will be "deliberating and discussing" that piece of proposed obscene and ludicrous legislation to LEGALIZE TORTURE and Bush wants RETROACTIVE IMMUNITY FOR HIMSELF AND HIS ADMINISTRATION AND THE TORTURERS FROM BEING CHARGED WITH WAR CRIMES. IF Congress approves the TORTURE BILL, they will make themselves complicit in the WAR CRIMES of the Bush administration by RETROACTIVELY AUTHORIZING WAR CRIMES, thus making themselves WAR CRIMINALS - and, by implication, since we "elected" those same senators and representatives, that makes ALL of the citizens of the United States WAR CRIMINALS if that horror is made "legal." What's to "deliberate?" What's to "discuss?" TORTURE is TORTURE, and TORTURE IS ILLEGAL under US law and under international treaties which are, per the US Constitution, the law of the land, and anyone who violates, or has violated, existing law can be charged with WAR CRIMES and other high crimes and misdemeanors. Period. (See list of URLs and references below.)

"Legally" - if Congress approves Bush's TORTURE bill - Congress would be RETROACTIVELY AUTHORIZING WAR CRIMES per Bush's dictates, and Congress become accessories after the fact to WAR CRIMES!!! Are the members of Congress so disconnected from reality in their Beltway Bubble that they don't get the fact that RETROACTIVELY AUTHORIZING WAR CRIMES also makes them vulnerable to being charged with those same WAR CRIMES they would be retroactively making "legal" for Bush and his administration, thus negating the US Constitution, the Geneva Conventions, the Bill of Rights and US law?!?

Normal people of conscience are morally outraged and aghast that LEGALIZING TORTURE and making TORTURERS and those who have authorized TORTURE immune from prosecution will seriously be "deliberated and discussed" this coming week - in the United States Congress, no less...!!!

ARE THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS INSANE?!?!?

Why was this ludicrous legislation not sent to the nearest paper shredder and dismissed as another one of Bush's cruel jokes?!? George W. Bush is going to try to rush the vote on the TORTURE BILL through Congress in a hurry this week while Media is distracted by the RUMOR regarding the death of Osama bin Laden (or whatever else comes along to provide distracting media coverage). Every person with a smidgen of analytical ability who has been paying attention to politics for the last six years knows that's been the BushCo. pattern for getting unpleasant legislation passed all these years. Distract the attention of TV viewers (where most people get their "news") with non-stories while questionable legislation gets passed in a hurry in the dead of night with little or no discussion - and little or no media coverage!

The Rubber Stamp Congress (both Republicans and Democrats) have given George W. Bush everything he's demanded when they jumped on the patriotic bandwagon after 9/11, whether it violates existing laws or not (Patriot Act, FISA revisions, to start a long list of legislation that needs repealing). What few things Bush hasn't gotten by questionable "legal" maneuvers (blackmail, coercion), signing statements issued indicate he believes he alone is the supreme law of the land and he still gets whatever he demands, per his assertion regarding the 'theory of the unitary executive' - aka dictatorial powers (and that's only what we know about - we don't know what's been going on in secret yet - we do not have an 'open democracy,' even though he's touting that as the only kind of governmental body to impose on other nations). That goes completely against the presidential oath of office as worded in the US Constitution...!!!

ENOUGH...!!!

"If it bleeds, it leads..." is the media mantra. IF Osama bin Laden is dead, he's no longer bleeding (metaphorically, since the RUMOR has it typhoid was the cause of death, if he is dead). End of story, nothing to discuss ad nauseaum until after the TORTURE bill passes, unnoticed and unremarked upon by you in Media. You give OBL too much credit, all thanks to five long years of constant and daily "war, terror, fear" commercial-like brainwashing from BushCo. propagandists who made Osama bin Laden into a boogey man, in spite of OBL's family and financial ties to George W. Bush and his family. Bush never talks about OBL unless he wants to start another fresh round of 'war, terror, and fear' rhetoric to keep the sheeple in line anyway, or to scare Congress into passing his latest piece of insane legislation. Haven't you in Media figured that out yet?!? Whether OBL is dead or alive makes no difference whatsoever regarding how intelligent people will vote in November. Whether or not legislators vote for or against the TORTURE bill, or whether or not new political candidates favor or oppose the TORTURE bill will, indeed, make a huge difference in how intelligent people vote this fall (rigged elections from hacked e-voting machines aside). For ONCE in these last six, long, miserable years, will you people in Media PLEASE not go where the administration points?!? Pay attention to what is happening right under your noses!!!

IF, my some miracle, the TORTURE BILL has not passed by the time of the fall recess for Congress, every incumbent and every new political candidate needs to answer 'yes' or 'no' to one question: "Do you think torture should be made legal?" (No long and convoluted explanations allowed; just a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer will tell voters what they need to know.)

The BIG STORY you in Media SHOULD be talking about is George W. Bush's TORTURE BILL that will shatter the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Geneva Conventions, and all other legal treaties signed by the US. The SECOND PART of the TORTURE BILL would exempt George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo, et al., on down the chain of command to the people who are actually doing the TORTURE on US military bases and elsewhere from being charged with WAR CRIMES. The TORTURE legislation is one big 'cover your ass' piece of illegal, immoral, and unethical bullshit, and anyone with an ounce of critical thinking ability who has followed politics for the last six years knows it. Bush and his administration have already admitted to sanctioning and approving TORTURE that has already been done... now they want Congress to "legally" declare they would be RETROACTIVELY IMMUNE FROM PROSECUTION UNDER EXISTING LAWS, which, incidentally makes Congress and the citizens of the United States accessories after the fact to WAR CRIMES...?!?!? That's some chutzpah!

We still do not know the final wording of the TORTURE BILL after the "compromises" this past week, and if the wording is vague enough, it would, by implication, LEGALIZE TORTURING every person who is only picked up for questioning for any reason whatsoever - including citizens of the United States - not 'only' the people from other countries who have been held prisoner during this illegal war, most of whom have never been charged with crimes of any kind. Anyone our paranoid president and his paranoid administration deems a mere, possible, potential "threat" could be picked up and TORTURED, no matter what country they are from - and that includes US citizens... AND any senators or representatives the current paranoid president or vice-president would deem a "threat" to the safety and security of the United States if they have opinions that disagree with the Bush administration... but I don't think the legislators who will be 'discussing and deliberating' the TORTURE BILL have thought about that yet!

Senators and representatives may 'hold their power with the consent of the governed' (if they got their offices in elections that weren't rigged by e-voting machines) but they have already given away so much of their power through rubber-stamping anything Bush has sent to them for the past five years that the balance of powers no longer exist, per the US Constitution, and the current 'unitary executive' dictatorial president could have the legislators who disagree and don't rubber-stamp his legislation thrown in jail as a "threat" to the United States (which opens doors to declaring martial law and canceling the 2008 presidential elections).... Think about it, people in Media, and TALK ABOUT IT!!! Silence on the matter of TORTURE becoming the law of the land, obliterating the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, US law and all our treaties is assent and complicity to a dictatorship takeover in the process of happening right now in the United States of America!

Get the wording of the proposed TORTURE legislation Congress will be "discussing and deliberating" on web sites so we can read what it says!!! If the final form of the TORTURE bill is on any web sites, I haven't seen it yet. Everything politicians and spinmeisters have 'discussed' so far has been extremely vague; they know this is the most shameful piece of 'legislation' ever put before Congress, so they are not discussing it in any but the most general and vague terms, no specifics. If any legislators have a conscience, they know it's illegal.

Go read the transcript of the Rose Garden hissy fit Bush had about the TORTURE BILL last week. Although Bush yapped on incessantly with his usual rhetoric about 'protecting the American people' and all that blather, he didn't specify who authorized TORTURE (he long ago said he did, and we know who gave him the legal advice to authorize TORTURE) and didn't dwell on his real aim of retroactive immunity from prosecution, or who the TORTURERS are whom he wants to retroactively exempt from being charged with WAR CRIMES after he first authorized TORTURE. Bush called them 'good, clean, upstanding citizens' and 'young professionals.' Didn't anyone in Media do a double-take on Bush calling TORTURERS 'good, clean, upstanding citizens and young professionals'?!?!? "Professional" TORTURERS, in Bush's opinion, are 'good, clean, upstanding citizens'?!? When have TORTURERS been anything but criminals?!? The Nuremberg judgment already declared "I was only following orders" is not a just defense for committing WAR CRIMES, and soldiers have a right to refuse to follow orders that are illegal or immoral. When have those who authorized TORTURE been anything but criminals?!? People who authorize WAR CRIMES are not immune from prosecution for WAR CRIMES... and that would include the US Congressional members if they make Bush's TORTURE BILL the "legal" law of the land and grant retroactive immunity to TORTURERS.

Bush's Rose Garden temper tantrum leads me to believe Halliburton and/or its subsidiaries who hire mercenaries and who have built a new prison at Guantánamo (and/or other corporations who hire mercenaries) are the TORTURERS there, since he didn't specify that it was CIA, FBI, or US military personnel doing the TORTURE, and no one in US media has ever interviewed a soldier who's returned from 'service' at Guantánamo, although many who have returned from Iraq or Afghanistan have been interviewed, only broadcast if they 'support' Bush's war are the interviews ever aired. (And, who's going to be doing the TORTURING at the new prisons Halliburton/KBR is building on US soil with their $385 billion dollar open-ended contract, the prisons allegedly for the 'influx of illegal immigrants' - the prisons no one in Media is talking about?) Additionally, "legally" sanctioning TORTURE gives a green light to federal (and maybe state and local) law enforcement agencies to TORTURE anyone who is a suspect in any crime whatsoever, whether they've committed a crime or not. Do we really want TORTURERS, and those who authorized TORTURE, immune from being charged with war crimes, or crimes against humanity or immune from prosecution for TORTURE in civilian courts?

The republic that our Founding Fathers gave us when they wrote the Constitution of the United States of America has been unraveling at the seams at an accelerating rate for six long years, our moral imperative has been totally eroded, no one in the international community believes a single word spoken by Bush or his administration, and we have become a third-world rogue nation with the illegal invasion of Iraq (and a LONG list of other crimes and abuses by George W. Bush and his administration - and some members of Congress), and you in Media can think of nothing better to air than RUMORS and other NON-STORIES...?!?

If a majority of the ordinary citizens of the United States of America understand the ramifications and genuinely approve of LEGALIZING TORTURE, then we are officially no longer a republic; if senators and representatives actually give their rubber-stamp approval of TORTURING people (suspects, no less, not even people charged with crimes) and grant TORTURERS retroactive immunity from prosecution, then we are, indeed, nothing more than a unitary executive dictatorship with legislative bodies that cater to the dictator... yes, just exactly like Germany under Hitler after he became the unitary executive..., but George W. Bush, the most mentally unstable "leader" this country has ever had, has nuclear bombs to play with....

If Congress approves the TORTURE BILL, "we, the people" of the United States of America lose our right to call ourselves "civilized" people. We long ago lost our moral high ground as a nation, thanks to BushCo. and their illegal, immoral, unethical, unjust, and dishonorable wars and other illegal activities. We will never get it back (at least not in my lifetime).

What stories are you in Media NOT talking about that have an impact on the daily lives of all Americans when you go off on tangents talking about RUMORS and NON-STORIES and other infotainment 'news'...? For six long years, where the administration points, you go with the most inane stories possible and ignore the real stories, real scandals, real abuses of power on the part of our "leaders" and politicians, especially Bush, Cheney, and their inner circle. You barely mention these things in passing, if at all, and certainly don't dwell on the illegal activities of the Bush administration or anyone connected with the Bush administration. Where are Media's ethical and moral values and responsibilities? Silence on the part of Media is assent to TORTURE and WAR CRIMES and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! SILENCE IS COMPLICITY! You've all become a right-wing propaganda machine, capable of only reading the propaganda scripts put out by the White House or Pentagon! You can not possibly ascribe to the First Amendment 'free press' clause if you do nothing but parrot rightwingnuttia and religious reich propaganda!

Are you in Media ever going to try to redeem your lost reputation as a 'free press?' Or do you enjoy your corporate tax breaks and profits too much to question the illegal behavior of the Bush administration? Are you censoring yourselves, or are there unwritten rules of censorship that you're following that give Bush and his administration a free pass to destroy this country? Why do 'journalists' so rarely ask tough questions or demand straight answers from the Bush administration? We all know Bush can't put a coherent sentence together properly - but why do spinmeisters always give him a free pass for his stupidity and try to 'interpret' and 'reinterpret' and 'explain' what they think he means??? (Sounds like: "I know you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant!")

Remember recently when local and national media spent two or more weeks talking about the man who did NOT kill JonBenet Ramsey ten years ago?!? The BIG story that broke the same day the guy was arrested overseas, the one never talked about in media except for a blurb in passing, was Judge Anna Diggs Taylor's decision.... Taylor's decision was THE STORY that went unreported and undiscussed, but we couldn't even channel surf away from the story about the fellow who did NOT kill Ramsey for at least two weeks. Is it any wonder so many people of intelligence simply turn their TVs off and go to the internet for real news? SHAME ON YOU ALL...!!! Go back, do your research, and you will find that the legal decision by Judge Anna Diggs Taylor should have been made a Media Event and talked about for at least a week, with an additional hour of prime time news special on each network!!!

Who cares if Osama bin Laden is dead or alive?!? It's only an unsubstantiated RUMOR, and the source of the RUMOR may not even be credible. IF someone can produce OBL's body, then it could become a story, maybe, only spoken about after the first commercial break. Even if his body is produced to prove his death, it will NOT be the most important story of the year; he would still be dead; end of story, not worth more than sixty seconds of air time to mention it in passing. Move on to something MORE IMPORTANT that affects us all, that affects the reputation of the United States internationally, and talk about how our morals as a nation would be impacted if Congress approves the TORTURE BILL, and talk about how it would shatter our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Geneva Conventions and other treaties to legalize what has been illegal for centuries. Dead or alive, with or without a "new" video to prove he's still alive (or not) just in time for election day last-minute-decisions on the part of sheeple who only vote with the majority poll numbers, OBL is not even a potential false 'issue' for intelligent people who will vote this fall. GET OVER IT!!!

So, to repeat myself (since you in Media only seem to 'hear' anyone if a message is repeated often enough, loud enough, and long enough, just like a brainwashing commercial): TORTURE, and whether or not the United States of America remains a republic (at least in theory, now that the balance of power is gone), or whether or not the United States of America officially becomes a UNITARY EXECUTIVE DICTATORSHIP under George W. Bush... THAT is now the #1 ISSUE for this fall's election...!!! This coming week, Congress will be "deliberating and discussing" that piece of proposed obscene and ludicrous legislation to LEGALIZE TORTURE and Bush wants RETROACTIVE IMMUNITY FOR HIMSELF AND HIS ADMINISTRATION AND THE TORTURERS FROM BEING CHARGED WITH WAR CRIMES. IF Congress approves the TORTURE BILL, they will make themselves complicit in the WAR CRIMES of the Bush administration by RETROACTIVELY AUTHORIZING WAR CRIMES, thus making themselves WAR CRIMINALS - and, by implication, since we "elected" those same senators and representatives, that makes ALL of the citizens of the United States WAR CRIMINALS if that horror is made "legal." What's to "deliberate?" What's to "discuss?" TORTURE is TORTURE, and TORTURE IS ILLEGAL under US law and under international treaties which are, per the US Constitution, the law of the land, and anyone who violates, or has violated, existing law can be charged with WAR CRIMES and other high crimes and misdemeanors. Period. (See list of URLs and references below.)

You in Media have a responsibility as citizens to talk about the TORTURE BILL and how, if passed, that will impact the citizens of the United States of America, our ethical standards, our moral values, our legacy to the international community if we become, in fact, a third world rogue nation of criminals led by a unitary executive dictator should such an obscene and ludicrous piece of trash that LEGALIZES TORTURE and provides immunity to TORTURERS and WAR CRIMINALS and those who have authorized TORTURE and WAR CRIMES becomes "law"!!! If anyone in Lamestream Media does not grasp how dismantling our Constitution, the Bill of Rights, US law, and our treaties will impact this nation as a whole, may I suggest you seek employment elsewhere in what will become a dictatorship under the leadership of George W. Bush?

If you in Lamestream Media remain silent, you will be aiding and abetting the dictator wannabe who wants to make TORTURE "legal" and destroy the United States of America. If Media remains silent, and if Congress passes the TORTURE bill, you will forever be the most UNPATRIOTIC of all institutions that ever existed in what was once the United States of America, because we will cease to become a nation.

Sincerely,
A Mortified, Outraged, and Ashamed Citizen - deeply and profoundly embarrassed that our "leaders" and our legislative bodies are seriously contemplating making all of the citizens of the United States of America into international war criminals and accessories after the fact by "legally" obliterating our Constitution, our laws, and our treaties.

P.S. Anyone with an IQ above a rock knows full well there is not now, nor was there ever, a "war on terror." (How can there be a 'war on fear?' It's illogical.) At best, stretching the imagination, there could be a 'war on crime' (although no one in law enforcement is going after the criminals - Bush started a war that had nothing to do with 9/11, and now thousands of people are dead for the sake of his PNAC buddies who want to control the world's oil reserves). There are billions of people on the planet, mostly good people; only a few hundred or a few thousand are criminals who commit crimes that can be called 'terrorist acts' and most of them kill themselves in the process of committing those crimes (end of story; frustrating not to be able to bring the criminals to trial, so deal with reality already). There are criminals who commit illegal acts that leave victims and survivors feeling fearful, or terrorized... but to have a "war" you have to have at least two countries with standing armies involved. Ergo: There is NO "war on terror!" Bush's illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq has made recruiting criminals who commit terrorist acts increase, yes; that's NOT 'news.' What planet have you in Media been on that you didn't already know that years ago? But that's still not a "war" because the criminals are not an organized military representing another country. At best, criminals of that ilk are just a large gang of thugs who commit criminal acts that 'terrorize' people. It's all Neoconservative Republican hyperbole to say otherwise, and the repeated mantra 'war on terror' is an abstract fear meme designed to scare sheeple into voting for the fear-and-war-mongers, pushed by gullible media spinmeisters too stupid to understand the difference...!

cc: My Senators and Representative

http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/
US Constitution & all of the Amendments
Check out Article I, Section 8 (supervision of military and war powers granted to Congress - the authority to use military force granted to Bush was only to go after OBL, NOT authorization to order the invasion of Iraq, a country that had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11); Article I, Section 9 (habeas corpus); Article III, Section 2 (public trials); Article VI (treaties); and don't forget to check out the several sections that mention impeachment.
Under The Bill of Rights/Amendments: check out the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th Amendments which would all be affected by the TORTURE BILL.
http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/funddocs/deceng.htm
Declaration of Independence
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002441----000-.html
US Code: War Crimes
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/0/e160550475c4b133c12563cd0051aa66?OpenDocument
Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions. (It's written in elementary English. There is nothing whatsoever in this document that needs "clarification.")
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention#Article_4
Third Geneva Convention
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention
Fourth Geneva Convention
[Links embedded in text on the web site.]
http://www.projectcensored.org/censored_2007/index.htm#1
Top 25 Censored news stories of 2007
This is a long and dense article, complete with references and sources. Of particular interest: numbers 2, 14 (KBR - a Halliburton subsidiary - granted money to build "detention centers" on US soil), 16, 17 (by writer Greg Palast who is now under government scrutiny... hmmm... censorship), 18, 24.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20060731.html
Playing With Fire: The Administration's Draft Bill on Detainees Would Violate the Geneva Conventions and Thereby Put Americans at Risk
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/09/13/there_is_no_war_on_terror.php
There Is No War On Terror

Okay this Letter to the Ed, of the washington post made me cry. I think its important for anyone who even thinks its okay to torture someone to read or even those who know its not.

Are We Really So Fearful?

By Ariel Dorfman
Sunday, September 24, 2006; Page B01

DURHAM, N.C.

It still haunts me, the first time -- it was in Chile, in October of 1973 -- that I met someone who had been tortured. To save my life, I had sought refuge in the Argentine Embassy some weeks after the coup that had toppled the democratically elected government of Salvador Allende, a government for which I had worked. And then, suddenly, one afternoon, there he was. A large-boned man, gaunt and yet strangely flabby, with eyes like a child, eyes that could not stop blinking and a body that could not stop shivering.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/22/AR2006092201303.html

Has the Revolution started yet...?

Just wondering.

And Otter, I must digress on your assesment of Chavez.

I do not think I can think of a world leader who seems MORE stable and sure right now.

Confidence is sexy ONLY when it is not so freaking cold and scary.

God help us.

Posted by: NonnyO at September 24, 2006 10:41 AM

I share your disgust and horror that we in this country are even having a discussion about what kind of TORTURE is okay.

America has to hold itself up to a higher standard than our enemies do, we have to lead by example. Its always easy to do the right thing when its never really been tested its harder to do the right thing when you are being tested. Our Country and Constitution are being tested right now probably really tested for the first time in history, Even during the Civil war Lincoln refused to go against the Constitution without keeping the Senate informed, and getting some kind of feed back. I fear the world is watching and we are flunking this test badly. Can our Constitution and Country survive this is the real question.

I tuned in to watch Clinton on Meet the Press. Guess what my local NBC station is carrying Golf instead. Grr I really really hate this.

Ah, yes. On a Sunday mornin' comin' down, it can be a Good Thing to lighten up one's liberal load a bit (even though, as we know, politics still has a way of permeating everything.)

Which is why I couldn't resist tossing in a snippet from a brief piece I found at http://tinyurl.com/hvx8v this morning, while researching an entirely different topic:

"One thing I like about pirates is that they were not conservative. They refused to wear ties and rarely played golf. I think liberals could learn a thing or two from their ways. It's time for us to raise the black flag of defiance, show some fight for once and repel all boarders!

"Perhaps we could catch that Ann Coulter wench, tie her to the mast and inflict on her unspeakable acts -- such as turning on a public television fund drive until she screamed for mercy, as anybody would. Then we could make her walk the plank to damage her self-esteem.

"Ar-ee-argh. No more Mr. Nice Liberal for me. I am weighing anchor, me hearties, and declaring war on all reactionary shipping. But first I will tack down to the multiplex to see Johnny Depp, assuming my wife lets me."

And on another note, somehow it seems totally appropriate that the fine folks over at http://www.lies.com finally noticed this week that their tenth anniversary of progressive truth-patrolling actually came around last February. So they're commemorating it now instead. But hey, better late than never, hmm?

September 24, 2006
Officials Wary of Electronic Voting Machines
By IAN URBINA

WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A growing number of state and local officials are getting cold feet about electronic voting technology, and many are making last-minute efforts to limit or reverse the rollout of new machines in the November elections.

Less than two months before voters head to the polls, Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. of Maryland this week became the most recent official to raise concerns publicly. Mr. Ehrlich, a Republican, said he lacked confidence in the state’s new $106 million electronic voting system and suggested a return to paper ballots.

Dozens of states have adopted electronic voting technology to comply with federal legislation in 2002 intended to phase out old-fashioned lever and punch-card machines after the “hanging chads” confusion of the 2000 presidential election.

But some election officials and voting experts say they fear that the new technology may have only swapped old problems for newer, more complicated ones. Their concerns became more urgent after widespread problems with the new technology were reported this year in primaries in Ohio, Arkansas, Illinois, Maryland and elsewhere.

This year, about one-third of all precincts nationwide are using the electronic voting technology for the first time, raising the chance of problems at the polls as workers struggle to adjust to the new system.

“I think there is good reason for concern headed into the midterm elections,” said Richard F. Celeste, a Democrat and former Ohio governor who was co-chairman of a study of new machines for the National Research Council with Richard L. Thornburgh, a Republican and former governor of Pennsylvania.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/us/politics/24voting.html

September 24, 2006
Joining a Fraternity of Faith, Dwindling but Resolute
By MICHAEL LUO

When Emmanuel Ko broke the news to his girlfriend that he had decided to become a priest, he clutched a rosary in his right pocket for resolve as she wept. “It’s not like I didn’t like her anymore,” he said. “I’m doing this because I love him more.”

Mr. Ko, 22, is one of four young men from the Roman Catholic Diocese of Brooklyn who decided to take the first step toward priesthood this fall, enrolling at the Cathedral Seminary Residence of the Immaculate Conception in Douglaston, Queens.

Decisions like his are increasingly rare, especially now that the priesthood, hit with a series of sex scandals, has become suspect in many people’s eyes. There were fewer than 1,300 college-level seminarians in the country last year, down from more than 13,000 three decades ago, according to the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University.

The seminary in Douglaston, which serves both the Brooklyn and Rockville Centre dioceses, was once a bustling place, a fully functioning college with faculty and several hundred students.

Today, just 25 seminarians live there. They occupy a handful of pews in the school’s cavernous chapel. The men take most of their classes now at nearby St. John’s University, returning to the sem