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Fighting the Class War
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If this article below is any indication, the people of Virginia may have done us a much bigger favor than we knew when they threw George Allen out of office and replaced him with Jim Webb.
There has always been a tough, populist streak beneath the gentlemanly surface of Virginia's politics. In this piece from the Wall Street Journal, Senator-elect Webb goes straight at the growing inequalities of income and opportunity in the U.S. since Ronald Reagan's election in 1980, as our country has moved towards an increasingly class-based society.
Class Struggle
American workers have a chance to be heard.
Wall Street Journal
November 15, 2006
by Jim Webb
The most important--and unfortunately the least debated--issue in politics today is our society's steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century. America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years. It is not unfair to say that they are literally living in a different country. Few among them send their children to public schools; fewer still send their loved ones to fight our wars. They own most of our stocks, making the stock market an unreliable indicator of the economic health of working people. The top 1% now takes in an astounding 16% of national income, up from 8% in 1980. The tax codes protect them, just as they protect corporate America, through a vast system of loopholes.
Incestuous corporate boards regularly approve compensation packages for chief executives and others that are out of logic's range. As this newspaper has reported, the average CEO of a sizeable corporation makes more than $10 million a year, while the minimum wage for workers amounts to about $10,000 a year, and has not been raised in nearly a decade. When I graduated from college in the 1960s, the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker made. Today, that CEO makes 400 times as much.
In the age of globalization and outsourcing, and with a vast underground labor pool from illegal immigration, the average American worker is seeing a different life and a troubling future. Trickle-down economics didn't happen. Despite the vaunted all-time highs of the stock market, wages and salaries are at all-time lows as a percentage of the national wealth. At the same time, medical costs have risen 73% in the last six years alone. Half of that increase comes from wage-earners' pockets rather than from insurance, and 47 million Americans have no medical insurance at all.
Manufacturing jobs are disappearing. Many earned pension programs have collapsed in the wake of corporate "reorganization." And workers' ability to negotiate their futures has been eviscerated by the twin threats of modern corporate America: If they complain too loudly, their jobs might either be outsourced overseas or given to illegal immigrants.
This ever-widening divide is too often ignored or downplayed by its beneficiaries. A sense of entitlement has set in among elites, bordering on hubris. When I raised this issue with corporate leaders during the recent political campaign, I was met repeatedly with denials, and, from some, an overt lack of concern for those who are falling behind. A troubling arrogance is in the air among the nation's most fortunate. Some shrug off large-scale economic and social dislocations as the inevitable byproducts of the "rough road of capitalism." Others claim that it's the fault of the worker or the public education system, that the average American is simply not up to the international challenge, that our education system fails us, or that our workers have become spoiled by old notions of corporate paternalism.
Still others have gone so far as to argue that these divisions are the natural results of a competitive society. Furthermore, an unspoken insinuation seems to be inundating our national debate: Certain immigrant groups have the "right genetics" and thus are natural entrants to the "overclass," while others, as well as those who come from stock that has been here for 200 years and have not made it to the top, simply don't possess the necessary attributes.
Most Americans reject such notions. But the true challenge is for everyone to understand that the current economic divisions in society are harmful to our future. It should be the first order of business for the new Congress to begin addressing these divisions, and to work to bring true fairness back to economic life. Workers already understand this, as they see stagnant wages and disappearing jobs.
America's elites need to understand this reality in terms of their own self-interest. A recent survey in the Economist warned that globalization was affecting the U.S. differently than other "First World" nations, and that white-collar jobs were in as much danger as the blue-collar positions which have thus far been ravaged by outsourcing and illegal immigration. That survey then warned that "unless a solution is found to sluggish real wages and rising inequality, there is a serious risk of a protectionist backlash" in America that would take us away from what they view to be the "biggest economic stimulus in world history."
More troubling is this: If it remains unchecked, this bifurcation of opportunities and advantages along class lines has the potential to bring a period of political unrest. Up to now, most American workers have simply been worried about their job prospects. Once they understand that there are (and were) clear alternatives to the policies that have dislocated careers and altered futures, they will demand more accountability from the leaders who have failed to protect their interests. The "Wal-Marting" of cheap consumer products brought in from places like China, and the easy money from low-interest home mortgage refinancing, have softened the blows in recent years. But the balance point is tipping in both cases, away from the consumer and away from our national interest.
The politics of the Karl Rove era were designed to distract and divide the very people who would ordinarily be rebelling against the deterioration of their way of life. Working Americans have been repeatedly seduced at the polls by emotional issues such as the predictable mantra of "God, guns, gays, abortion and the flag" while their way of life shifted ineluctably beneath their feet. But this election cycle showed an electorate that intends to hold government leaders accountable for allowing every American a fair opportunity to succeed.
With this new Congress, and heading into an important presidential election in 2008, American workers have a chance to be heard in ways that have eluded them for more than a decade. Nothing is more important for the health of our society than to grant them the validity of their concerns. And our government leaders have no greater duty than to confront the growing unfairness in this age of globalization.
Worshipping The State: Why They Die
By Michael Gaddy
The inboxes at my email sites are constantly bombarded with pictures and articles designed to pull at my heartstrings and make me believe there are troops in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for our freedoms.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15626.htm
{{{'Absatively posolutely' "Must Read"!!! Gaddy says what I've thought and known and felt all along, but haven't been able to express nearly as well. I sent him a kudos letter. And sent his article to my rep and new senator and the in-state media.}}}
Dick,
This is what we all have been fighting against.
Let's hope these Democrats step up to the plate and deliver!
Hey sparrow:
How's it cookin'? Ready for the Thanksgiving thing?
I am relieved Murtha did not get it.
There is something VERY VERY wrong here, and it is going on in both parties.
Just as we must not let republicans change or nuance our ethics, we must also avoid those within our own ship that can sink all of us with them.
Abramoff says, the rumor is, Reid was about to be implicated... is it true? I don't have a clue but it is a serious problem. Our majority can still be torpedoed. And they will no doubt try like hell to do it, and soon.
We must be able to investigate ourselves better than the frists and hasterets of this world.
Dan Froomkin makes some interesting points in his blog/column at washingtonpost.com. The one I like the best is this one...
* What will life be like with oversight? We've just gone through not only six years of congressional obedience, but six years of ignorance. Congressional oversight has historically put enormous amounts of important, otherwise secret information into the public domain -- about the government and the private sector alike. If you think bloggers have been a potent political force thus far -- just wait until oversight gives them better material to work with.
read the whole column here...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2006/11/15/BL2006111500816.html
Today's thread header gives me pause to stop and think about some of the issues that cause me angst as an aging baby boomer.
Note that I realize that the condition is, at present, growing more treacherous and slippery for ALL Americans who are not part of the top 1%, or at least college educated and working in Corporate America.
I worry about myself because I am reaching the age where, when I was a child, dignified and adequate pensions and healthcare for the elderly were not a problem ~ but those days are gone.
I remember when blue collar and white collar workers WERE the middle class, and a salary provided nice homes, vehicles, travel trailers, toys, and vacations for most people who were willing to work.
The downward spiral that is affecting our "middle class" is indeed forcing it into a very low class at a high rate of speed. Grocery prices are spiking, and wages have indeed remained as low in many sectors as they were twenty years ago.
I speak of all these things from experience. I worry about my future, but I also grieve for our nation's future generations.
I hope and pray that with our new Democratic majority we will be able to salvage and restore.
Senator Reid tells Ed Schultz that Dems to introduce Robo Call Regulation legislation in January. That is reassuring.
In the closely-watched Democratic race for House Majority Leader, the Talking Points Memo candidate has defeated the Huffington Post candidate, 149-86.
What does this mean? Nothing.
Mark Barrett
See http://www.thepremise.com also for good piece on Adam Nagourney, r/t Kerry's "botched" joke.
Don't worry Truth.
It is all good me and 45 million of my closest friends have no health insurance or retirement benefits.
Georgie is going to kill us all anyway.
James Carville Says DNC Chair Dean's Leadership "Rumsfeldian"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Democrats Rumble
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/?p=688
I see Milton Friedman, economic guru for Reagan and Thatcher has died.
Reading more about Clear Channel - looks like alot of foreign banks financing the buyout - says in Guardian market share down by 60% since 2000. That's alot - attributed to influence of internet and satellite comm.
We went to a European rock festival - ticketing etc were all Clear Channel. Some groups from Seattle such as Pearl Jam have used alternates and also to Ticketmaster but it's hard to compete with the giants.
I heard Bush on NPR when I was in the parking garage - he was down on the floor banging on gongs in Singapore. Then he said that free trade helps prevent terrorism. I don't know what the link between the two is supposed to be.
Good for Jim Webb. Of course, good for him, it's his article. :-)
But good for Claire McCaskill. As Missouri's state auditor, she's done it backwards and in high heels.
http://claireonline.com/about/
And good for much-maligned Lou Dobbs: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/14/Dobbs.Nov15/index.html
I'm so happy this populist thing is getting some positive attention in the blogosphere. ;-)
It's pretty obvious to see Carville is trying to set up a 2008 Northeast vs South rivalry. It gets old after awhile. I'd like to see a candidate from the west mayb - break up the pattern.
Ron Chusid is also talking about Webb's article/ideas on his blog for anyone who is interested: http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=616#comment-6994
I'll bet Claire doesn't wear high heels. I imagine she wears "sensible shoes." ;-)
It's in NewsMax - the right seems to like Carville, kind of like Nader.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/11/15/162840.shtml?s=sp&promo_code=295F-1
The right wants Hillary. Carville is shilling for Hillary. Of course they would like him. !!! LOL
THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT:
Democrats prepare to raise minimum wage By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer
Thu Nov 16, 12:30 PM ET
WASHINGTON - It looks like full steam ahead for a significant boost to the federal minimum wage when Democrats assume control of Congress in January.
Sen. Edward Kennedy (news, bio, voting record) of Massachusetts said Thursday that increasing the federal minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.25 would be his top priority as chairman of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions.
On the House side, incoming Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., already has listed an increase in the minimum wage as one of the issues that would be taken up during the first 100 hours of the next Congress.
"Americans are working harder than ever, but millions of hardworking men and women across the country aren't getting their fair share," Kennedy said during a speech outlining his legislative agenda for next year. "We're not rewarding work fairly anymore, and working families are falling behind."
President Bush signaled readiness last week to consider some Democratic priorities such as a minimum-wage increase, overhauling immigration policy and finding compromise on renewing the No Child Left Behind education law.
Critics of boosting the minimum wage say it kills job creation as employers hire fewer entry-level workers to compensate for the higher wage expenses. Kennedy said the minimum wage has remained at $5.15 an hour for nearly 10 years.
Most states have their own minimum wages laws, with some states having rates the same as the federal minimum wage and some with rates higher than the federal minimum.
Kennedy noted that ballot initiatives establishing or raising the minimum wage in six states all passed in this month's election.
"If there is one message from this election that emerged loud and clear, it's that no one who works for a living should have to live in poverty," Kennedy said.
Kennedy also said he would seek to expand federal support for research on stem cells coming from embryos, which Congress approved last year, but Bush vetoed. The issue won't go away, he promised.
On education, Kennedy said he would seek to make college more affordable by increasing the size of Pell Grants from $4,050 to $5,100, and by cutting interest rates on student loans.
"It is more important than ever for our citizens to have a college education so they can compete in the global economy and have a fair chance at the American dream," he said.
On health care, Kennedy said the Senate's HELP committee would expand a health insurance program that now provides health coverage for about 4 million children. He also would look for ways to expand coverage to other populations too, he said, but he did not provide specifics, such as how to pay for that coverage.
James Carville is a doink.
James Carville is also a whore, an opportunist, a manipulator, and a fundamentally dishonest individual whose arrogance and ego are matched only by his unmitigated gall.
Other than that, of course, he's fine.
bless his heart,
Otter
"WASHINGTON - It looks like full steam ahead for a significant boost to the federal minimum wage when Democrats assume control of Congress in January"
Missouri increased miminum wage. As I understand it, that's something John Edwards promoted in six states (source, John Edwards via The Daily Show).
To quote Carville, "It's the economy, stupid."
It's always been the economy. Root cause of much of what passes as sexism and racism.
kj as soon as Lieberman endorses Hillary she will be finished.
Wonder if Linda E will chime in? Hi, Linda! *waves*
Bubba, love it. I'll celebrate the day. ;-)
Haven't been keeping up-- didn't realize McCain went to Vietnam with shrub
"Bubba, love it. I'll celebrate the day. ;-)"
That was written with sarcasm, which I didn't indicate. Whoops.
Lieberman will be radioactive to all of the Presidential candidates. Stay away from our friends Joe.
Posted by: DiAnne at November 16, 2006 03:54 PM
I agree. WHY do candidates HAVE to be from any specific region of the country? Once a person is president or vice president, they're supposed to represent all the people from all the states.
Posted by: Otter at November 16, 2006 04:05 PM
What our esteemed furry friend said - I agree.
Anyway, Carville is married to a Con. Makes me wonder what they say to each other during 'pillow talk.' (Things that make me go hmmmm.....)
Admittedly, I don't like Carville. He's such a DINO. And a doink, to quote Otter....
Posted by: kj at November 16, 2006 03:58 PM
kj's also right. To quote/paraphrase myself from the past, it's the Cons and Lamestream Media who want Hillary, who shove her name down our throats weekly on Sunday morning yak shows. No one's asked the ordinary people who they want.... It ain't Hillary. Too pro-war, too right-wing-centrist for me....
Ah Bubba, a week plus later and it's still a good day to be in flyover country. :-) We're still tight as sun-dried skin here, but hard work and common sense has (at last) risen to the top. Lots of churning and we've morphed into one of Black Elk's Sacred hoops (to mix a few metaphors). I'm seeing overlapping hoops with a horizon based in the center. :-) BTW, I never thanked you for all you did for all the candidates. I know you made a difference.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/11/16/a_way_out_of_iraq.php
A Way Out Of Iraq
Sen. Russ Feingold
Excerpt (more on link):
Democrats agree that we should begin redeploying troops, but some do not want to set a target deadline for the majority of troops to be withdrawn. That is a mistake. Without a target date, redeployment could drag on indefinitely. The president consistently refused to set a target date for withdrawal, and Democrats shouldn’t follow in his footsteps. Democrats should move forward with a new Iraq policy that includes a target date for the redeployment of U.S. troops so that we can refocus on defeating global terrorist networks.
On Tuesday, I introduced legislation requiring U.S. forces to redeploy from Iraq by July 1, 2007. My legislation recognizes that a target date for the redeployment of U.S. troops from Iraq will help pressure the Iraqis to get their political house in order. Simply announcing when we will begin redeployment, without any end date, is unlikely to put adequate pressure on the Iraqis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/11/16/the_medias_iraq_offensive.php
The Media's Iraq Offensive
Norman Solomon
Excerpt (more on link):
And, prophetically, Morse added: “We’re going to become guilty, in my judgment, of being the greatest threat to the peace of the world. It’s an ugly reality, and we Americans don’t like to face up to it.”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061115/ap_on_re_us/global_warming_lawsuit
White House sued over global warming
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_re_as/bush
In Asia, Bush takes on Democrats at home
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061116/ap_on_re_as/pakistan_missile_test
Pakistan test-fires medium-range missile
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6152636.stm
US marine jailed over Iraq death
Nonny, never thought I'd see the day where I wouldn't want to support a woman candidate for President. Even toyed with (wondered if) I would support Christine Todd Whitman (BEFORE she sold out to W.) But Hillary? I can't see it. Maybe I'm wrong and am open to having my mind changed, but it'd be a stretch. She doesn't represent anything close to what I see as Presidential material.
http://www.thepremise.com/
Mark Barrett writes about Claire McCaskill (which always does my heart good to read).
I don't know if Claire has presidential ambitions. But she isn't short of brains, moxie and determination. I can't begin to explain what she did for the blue-voters in this state not only this election, but two years ago when she ran for govenor. She gave us hope and someone to hang our hopes on and she didn't disappoint, even when she lost two years ago. The lady is as tough as nails. She broke the 'wingers backs here. She got into their heads and their hearts and they voted for her. Hope doesn't begin to describe what I feel when I think about what she has accomplished.
Should have put a "gush alert" on the above post.
Will step down from the soapbox now. @;-)
Posted by: Otter at November 16, 2006 04:05 PM
Not to mention that he's married to Mary "My Lips Dont Move When I Shill" Matalin...
There'll Be No Joy In Carville Tonight
I should have said Claire broke the 'winger's strangle-hold on Missouri voters. The GWB economy broke their backs. But they were stubborn, true believers. She cracked into that with common sense.
Claire McCaskill For President!
Good writers have their editor at their elbows and don't hit "post" until all is just so. Unfortunately, today, I've been all over the typo/grammer/metaphor map and no internal editor in sight.
I'm still happy about the election. Very damn happy.
Otter, :-)
kj I am convinced ALL of us here made a difference and will have a greater impact in '08 regardless who the nominee is. Probably not a good idea to start beating up on any of the nominees as we have no idea who we will end of choosing. I look forward to hearing more from Linda Enterkin, even though we don't agree a lot about politics she is really engaging.
I'm just itching to get started for '08. Mark Udall in Colorado is my next obsession against nutjob Allard. Carville was responsible for unseating 41 and for that he will have my eternal gratitude although 41 now looks a lot better than 43. Jim Webb's campaign manager Mudcat Saunders should be our next guru for '08. Landrieu is up in '08 and we certainly need to have Louisiana in play but I have mixed feeling about supporting her.
Just FYI. Battlebob has a great idea (over on Ron's blog re: Jim Webb's article) about how corporations could satisfy their shareholders and go back to supporting R&D. Tax-speak but it made sense. We need the fallout from R&D (white collar, manufacturing jobs, healthcare) in my opinion.
Bubba, didn't mean to single you out. Everyone here worked very hard, if they did nothing else but not give up hope, imo. We all have a function and seat at the table in my world. ;-)
Bubba, I'd love to turn away for a bit and let '08 take care of itself, which is just a "bit" selfish. But then you mention Mudcat Saunders and I can't resist learning more about a man with that name, especially one who helped put Jim Webb in office in "we should have won in 2000" Virginia.
and no state knows that more than Ohio and Michigan. Kay, sparrow and others from Ohio and Michigan, my heart goes out to you guys. Our manufacturing base has been destroyed by the corrupt politicians and ruinous trade policies in those states. We need to get totally behind the new leaders in Ohio who have their work cut out to Turn Ohio Around. During my short time in Cleveland I felt the pain their residents are going through, seeing their jobs and young people leaving their state in massive numbers. They deserve better with better trade policies, R&D tax policies and new energy policies to attract new energy resources. That was a hallmark of Sherrod Brown's campaign. Now they have the leaders to move their state forward; hopefully they will have our hearts and prayers behind them as well.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/politics/16023006.htm
"McCaskill pleased with committee seats"
snip
"McCaskill, now the Missouri state auditor, has landed a seat on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, which conducts oversight on how well federal programs work."
Watching out for our tax dollars. :-b
My god even I think I need to shut up.
isn't that the same Committee that traitor Liberman will chair? gulp
can't even spell his(Lieberman's) name correctly. Every time I think of him my blood boils. I pray that we win 3-4 Senate seats in '08 and then tell him to take a hike.
http://www.roanoke.com/roatimes/news/story160387.html
http://www.crooksandliars.com/posts/2006/06/15/mudcat-saunders-from-webbs-campaign-on-hardball/
Two stories about mudcat kj, from conservative Roanoke Virginia.
I'm not following Lieberman. I'd hoped by ignoring him he'd go away. Can I say once again, I did not vote for him when he was my senator-to-be, I voted for Weicker (who turned Independent, as as old Joe, which I think is really something. Wonder if they talk now?). Anyway, I thought it was a huge mistake for Al Gore to pick Joe instead of John Kerry for his veep. Although I campaigned for Al anyway. Sigh.
Yes. GO AWAY JOE.
Thanks Bubba. I'm going to be a fan of Mudcat's. :-) (Who remembers the Catfish Hunter days? And Tug McGraw? "Ya Gotta Believe" ??? Dating myself. "Mudcat" love it. 1,001 ways to eat carp. LOL
I think I'm in love with Mudcat. ;-)
He did really well with his limited time on Tweety.
I'm so happy that commen sense is front and center. Making inroads into rural areas is the task at hand and has been for a few election cycles. Saunders said it plain when he said no one is talking to these people. I interviewed a guy re: ethanol and his comment to me was, "I don't understand why these west coast people don't get behind what we're trying to do here." Okay, we could argue about ethanol, but his point was, he didn't understand why no one seemed to be talking about alternative energy, even those "west coast" (ie tree-huggers). Because he doesn't read Grist, you know? He works at the MFA co-op.
(Hit "post" again too soon. He works at the MFA co-op in Podunkville.
My boss at the time asked me to do a series on small town businesses around the county. We tossed around ideas and then I suggested a few place in our town (the county seat, population just over 10,000). My boss was confused, she said "small towns" not big towns, like where we lived. That's the mindset! We lived in a big town!
Too bad, if Saunders had stayed with Edwards, he might have gone over to the Kerry/Edwards campaign. We could have used Mudcat.
rather than that idiot Bob Schrum who I hope never shows up in another Democratic campaign management position ever agin. He epitomizes why we can't win Presidential elections.
McCain went to Vietnam with Shrub?
Barfbag please.
Well one female candidate I'm cheering for is doing well - Segelene Royal of France could be the first woman President. She's a Socialist in France, but in America like, say, Dick Gephart.
Not to toot my own horn, but I wrote a piece anticipating the return of class struggle as a winning issue in the mid-terms back in the year 2003:
http://www.hpleft.com/070403.html
Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at November 16, 2006 07:02 PM
Toot away. :-) The sad thing about forward-looking thinkers is... they aren't usually recognized... in time... or sometimes ever.
And I'm with Bubba, bye bye Shrum. I hope he takes the limo with him when he goes.
Matthew, your instincts were right then and I think they are now.
it was that Populist message, Matthew, that many of us former John Kerry bloggers had hoped he would have undertaken and which certainly would have played well, as evidenced by Sherrod Brown's campaign, in Ohio. cest la vie.
Somehow as Progressives we have come to believe that by straddling the middle we won't offend the upper class voters who aren't with us regardless. Gore and Kerry refused to run as populist,a mistake hopefully, we corrected in the '06 election. We can thank Lieberman for that great strategy, reportedly advising Gore not to use populism in the 2000 campaign.
Dick, Sparrow and all. We in Oz sure hope you succeed in your battles against these greedy dictatorships under whose authority we are compelled to live. Bush and Howard are together again!
It's like Global Warming. We in the planet's Upper Class (Developed West) caused this catastrophe. And the US and Oz continue to flaunt it. Now that extremely poor countries are emerging from decades of devastating poverty we insist on plunging them back into it. Either remain in poverty OR reduce greenhouse emissions. You MUST take responsibility, we dictate to them.
Class society has always existed. Democracy never did give us true equality and freedom. Only the wealthy get the Justice. Get the Education. Get the Freedom. The rest of us just learn to play the game.
But I certainly wish you well in the struggle to bring a better balance between the mighty rich (who have much further to fall) and the rest of us who will simply step aside and let them hit the concrete so that we can redistribute the wealth they've accumulated through the toil of the masses. Hmmm - sounds like I'm after some social justice. Wouldn't that be a nice change.
I may be wrong about McCain in Vietnam-- saw it in one place, but saw that he's in DC elsewhere.
Moderator: feel free to remove Posted by: aimzzz at November 16, 2006 04:11 PM until there's corroboration
SORRY!!!!
NonnyO, thanks for that great article by Michael Gaddy. I'm busy circulating that too right now. I received an email from a friend who is facing state elections in a week. Thanks for saying that Australians must be more mature and aware politically. Nope. Sadly, no.
Friend Heather's comments, "I am at a stage where I am almost more angry with the electorate than I am with Howard & Co. They have now started to pretend that they are doing something & making pathetic statements trying to pretend we are going to be important in Nairobi & I bet that many of those Australians who are concerned about global warming will swallow it hook, line & sinker."
There's the real truth of the matter. Like anywhere else - some are interested; others aren't.
o_O
Some Americans Lack Food, but USDA Won't Call Them Hungry
WaPo: http://tinyurl.com/y55nw6
The U.S. government has vowed that Americans will never be hungry again. But they may experience "very low food security."
Every year, the Agriculture Department issues a report that measures Americans' access to food, and it has consistently used the word "hunger" to describe those who can least afford to put food on the table. But not this year.
Mark Nord, the lead author of the report, said "hungry" is "not a scientifically accurate term for the specific phenomenon being measured in the food security survey." Nord, a USDA sociologist, said, "We don't have a measure of that condition."...
Posted by: kj at November 16, 2006 05:39 PM
Tug McGraw and Catfish Hunter... wow. Two of my faves for their personalities alone. Both of whom succumbed to terminal illness entirely too young.
Backwards K St.
re: November 16, 2006 08:12 PM
BushCo finally tries to be scientific
Interesting thought: Dems have been campaigning and promising better lives for the middle class these last few months, and yet for the last 2 weeks the DOW has been soaring to newer and higher highs. Is it possible to perhaps convince the investor class, which I am unashamed to be a part of, to start understanding, that what is good for Main Street is also good for Wall Street. That raising the minimum wage will help the depressed price of Walmart's stock, that establishing sound trade policies will be good for our economy, and that establishing new energy policies that release us from dependency of Oil Sheiks will help our transportation, housing and manufacturing base. And that reducing healthcare costs for our middle class will help Ford/GM and the fortune 500 companies who are struggling to keep up with 15% annual increases in healthcare costs become more competitive internationally. How about a message of helping Wallstreet by helping Main Street? Is that too nuanced?
re: November 16, 2006 08:12 PM
speaking of class issues...
Monkey, Tug McGraw's "Ya Gotta Believe" has been a family slogan now forever. When things go south, as they always do, one or the other of us will come out with "Ya gotta..." Never fails to bring a smile. It's one of my all-time favorite one-liners. Funny what we remember/associate with people, isn't it? And Catfish had the best handlebar in that decade, bar anybody. LOL
In 1999, Texas Gov. George W. Bush, then running for president, said he thought the annual USDA report -- which consistently finds his home state one of the hungriest in the nation -- was fabricated.
"I'm sure there are some people in my state who are hungry," Bush said. "I don't believe 5 percent are hungry."
Bush said he believed that the statistics were aimed at his candidacy. "Yeah, I'm surprised a report floats out of Washington when I'm running a presidential campaign," he said.
~snip~
This year, when the report failed to appear in October as it usually does, Democrats accused the Bush administration of delaying its release until after the midterm elections. Nord denied the contention, saying, "This is a schedule that was set several months ago."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Some Americans Lack Food, but USDA Won't Call Them Hungry
WaPo: http://tinyurl.com/y55nw6
"How about a message of helping Wallstreet by helping Main Street? Is that too nuanced?"
~~Posted by: Bubba at November 16, 2006 08:16 PM
Oh god no, that's great, I love it.
I have to admit that every time I think this regime can't go any lower, a new revelation absolutely astounds me...
Bubba, I hope you keep thinking of slogans like that and posting them, I'm very interested in one-line frames (with their subsequent bulletpoints). A few people around here have my email address, if you want to get in touch. I really think the ideas that can be summed up in a phrase (that we verbose dems naturally swell into 14 points and 38 subpoints) are the ones that will be of the most use here in middle America.
If I am Joe Lieberman, I am the happiest guy in DC. He is the most powerful person in the land. He alone decides if the Dems keep their majority. He can walk into the Dem caucus and say...”I’m back. What do you have for me?”. He can wander over to the Repub side and say “Electric Boat stays open folks”.
So Joe goes from the outhouse to the penthouse overnight.
My question and it is purely a process question is how did he win?
When he lost the primary, everything that says Democrat goes to Lamont. So who paid for Joe’s campaign organization? His TV ads? His flyers? Did Lamont still push as hard during the general election as he had during the primary? (I heard he didn’t). I heard Repubs helped Joe out. If so, they are going to want payment in the way of votes.
All my friends and relatives in Connecticut voted for Lieberman. They think he did a good job and he gets some credit for saving the sub base. I guess there are some benefits to being Dumbya’s favorite Democrat.
"Well one female candidate I'm cheering for is doing well - Segelene Royal of France could be the first woman President. She's a Socialist in France, but in America like, say, Dick Gephart."
~~Posted by: DiAnne at November 16, 2006 06:59 PM
How is Andree? Do you hear from her? This sounds interesting re: France, although I know nothing about their politics.
Oh battlebob, to bring the reality of Joe here, at this time of night. Yuk. I didn't think he'd win, so didn't follow his campaign, and am still hoping he'll just go away. Not so. I didn't think about the power of his vote before now. Thanks. (lol)
battlebob: Lieberman won 71% of Connecticut Republican voters and 55% of self described independents and that was the ballgame. A story I read on buzzflash claimed that Fox Journalists were roaming around putting up Lieberman signs in front of Lamont signs. I also read that Lamont presumed that Lieberman would not dare bolt the party and spent 2 weeks after the primary on vacation when lieberman was most vulnerable. I also read that Lieberman had $10 million in insurance and pharmacutical money after the primary and outspent Lamont. I think Lamont blew it by not backing Lieberman in a corner right after the primary and saying Joe you are either Democrat or Republican can't be both which is exactly what he let him be. I raised the issue of how Lieberman would make demands on the Dems, if he won, weeks before the election. Personally I hope we make nice long enough to let him believe he is still welcome in the party to maintain our majority but start dropping hints next summer that when we pick up 3-4 more Senate seats in '08 he needs to abandon this garbage that he is an independent, or move on down the road b/c in '09 he will be irrelevant to a Democratic majority. I would also make it clear that if he intends to have any voice at the '08 Convention the first thing he must do is renounce any association with Rush, Fox and the RNC. If we are not tough with him he will block everything we fought for in this election and that should not be an option, period.
we would love to hear Andree's take on last week's election; seems like a year since we have heard from her.
Ou es la Andree si vous plais?
garbled Bubba French
Hey All, Chuck in Houston and On Topic for Once:
I am very proud of being half-Virginian today and I'm very proud of Jim Webb. I knew my boy would do OK, win or lose. I don't agree with Jim Webb on everything, but on the important issues today I do agree with him, so I can get past the other stuff. I am very happy that he chose the themes he did for this first foray as a Senator-Elect into punditdom. And in the WSJ no less! Just because we're rednecks (or half-breed red-necks anyway, my other half is Italian/Irish/Baltimore Catholic) doesn't mean we're stupid or mean or racist (just like everybody else, some are, some aren't). We've got to grow together. Lot's of work to do!
Chuck in Houston
Chuck in Houston with a Slight Correction:
Actually, come to think on it, we are mean. But only to them that are agin us! Like that old rattlesnake on the old flag "Don't Tread on Me."
So a big "I Pluribus Unim" to all! Let's make a big-tent work for all the hard-working families out there. And over there.
Chuck in Houston
"We've got to grow together. Lot's of work to do!"
~~Posted by: Chuck at November 16, 2006 09:36 PM
I'm proud of Jim Webb as well. We need to grow as a country. We can't afford to sit on our ideologies at the expense of our commen sense. Imo. :-)
You know, when it comes down to brass tacks, I want people like Jim Webb on my side. Welcome back to the good fight, Senator-Elect Webb! Never hurts to have a few more good men (or women -- hat tip to the US Marine Corps). And thank you Mr. Dick Bell for pointing us there -- I never would have known about that article otherwise.
Chuck in Houston
Bubba,
Since Joe owes the Repubs, expect a few votes tossed their way.
No one in any capacity respects a traitor. If I remember my history correctly, Benedict Arnold died in 1801 essentially shunned by all. I expect Joe will be in the same spot. He has his one vote for sale and it is a very important vote, but no one will really trust him.
I expect he will be replaced by a serious candidate running a serious campaign ASAP. As soon as we don't need his vote, he is gone.
Chuck in Houston for KJ:
We'll get them! We'll just stick to our guns and do the right thing (to paraphrase Spike Lee). Missouri: EEEEHAAAW!
Hmmmmm, "Common Sense," sounds like a good name for a pamphlet!
Chuck in Houston
Bubba/Battlebob:
Joe Lieberman makes me sick. But I guess I'll just have to live with that, like with so many other things lo these long years in the wilderness.
Chuck in Houston
Americans Believed Captured in Iraq Ambush
"Early in the trip, the convoy stopped at what looked like an Iraqi police checkpoint, military officials said. Initial reports say 19 trucks were seized and approximately 14 people, including four Americans detained.
There is still a great deal of confusion about whether the checkpoint was operated by real Iraqi police or by a Shiia militia, the officials said."
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2659548
EEEEHAAAW! g;-)
Nite all.
Christy:
A great deal of confusion indeed.
Chuck in Houston
There must be some kind of way out of here
Said the joker to the thief.
There's just too much confusion;
I can't get no relief.
Businessmen they drink my wine,
Plow men dig my earth.
None will level on the line.
[unintelligible] it is worth,
Hey, hey!
"No reason to get excited,"
The thief he kindly spoke.
"There are many here among us,
Who feel that life is but a joke.
But you and I weve been through that,
And this is not our fate.
So let us not talk falsely now,
The hours getting late."
Hey, Hey!
All along the watchtower,
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went,
Bare-foot servants too, but huh
Outside in the cold distance,
A wild cat did growl.
Two riders were approaching,
And the wind began to howl....
Chuck in Houston
Garfield HS Seattle Washington
Chuck in Houston
Cleveland HS Portland Oregon
I didn't hear from Andree in awhile. I think maybe she had gone to Brittany to help with elderly relatives.
I know my friends who are teachers definitely vote Socialist whereas I think Andree might lean more Lib Dem.
I think our Big Tent encompasses most European parties except maybe the National Front which is like the Republicans, imho - nationalistic, short-sighted, paranoid about immigration.
Speaking of which, someone sent me a story about a Nevada town which has banned the flying alone of any flag not American. The majority on AOL supported the ban.
I think flags are starting to be about as overused and exploited for fashion as upscale sneaker logos.
By the way, Bush made it to Vietnam for the first time in his life - isn't he about 4 decades too late?
Will I live tomorrow?
Well, I just cant say
Will I live tomorrow?
Well, I just cant say
But I know for sure
I dont live today
No sun comin through my windows
Feel like Im livin at the bottom of a grave
No-ho sun comin through my windows
Feel like Im livin at the bottom of a grave
I wish youd hurry up and rescue me
So I can be on my miserable way
(well), I dont
Live today
Maybe tomorrow, I just cant say, but, uh
I dont
Live today
Its such a shame to waste your time away like this
Existing
Well, uh-i dont
Live today
Maybe tomorrow, I just cant tell you baby, but, uh
Oh, I dont
Live today
Its such a shame to spend the time
Away like this
Existing
Yeah
Ow
Yeah
Oh, no
Yeah
Oh, there aint no life no where
Uh-ha, {cough}-hmm, {sniff}
Down, man
(are) you experienced? {clap}
Get experienced {clap}
Get experienced
Uh, get experienced {clap}
Uh, get experienced {clap} (bv=[are] you experienced? )
Are you experienced? (bv={clap} are you experienced? )
DiAnne:
I guess I have no recourse but to queue up "Electric Ladyland"
Chuck in Houston
PS: You've got to admit, my boy Jim Webb is helping make something happen! Just because we're crackers doesn't mean we don't have something to add to all of this.
Posted by: Fe at November 16, 2006 04:02 PM
It almost seems to me like Kennedy and Kerry are all that's left of the old stock Democrats.
It seems like every time anyone speaks up for middle class America ~ the working class, it is Kennedy and Kerry.
I'm so tired of neocon-lites, unlike Kennedy and Kerry. I hope they both stay in office and live to a very ripe old age.
Hey Truth and Fe, By the Way:
Thanks for being here over the years. Hang tough!
Chuck in Houston (by way of Baku and SE Portland)
kj- just checked in, and I guess I will chime in. I like James Carville, a lot. Of course, I also like Bill Clinton, a lot, and we probably wouldn't have had Bill as president had he not had the unscrupulous Jimmy behind him, helping him know exactly how much he MIGHT be able to get by with without getting caught. As you know, I met a couple of other Clinton operatives when I was volunteering for Wes Clark a few years ago, and they're all cut from the same mold. Success is what it's all about. That's just politics, and you can't govern without succeeding at the ballot box. But on the Howard Dean thing, I also like Howard Dean, and also a LOT. I didn't when I was rooting for Clark, but I came to like him immediately after the "Scream," when I decided he'd really been screwed by the media on that issue. I don't think it's a North-South thing with Carville and Dean- in fact, I think they're both quite a lot alike. I honestly just think Carville is a bit jealous of Dean's power as head of the party. And I'll bet that Dean would have won more votes in the South during the last election than the nominated candidate did- sorry, but I know that pinches when I say it. Dean is plain spoken, honest and direct. And, for what it's worth, Vermont being the rural state that it is, he'd have been more accepted than someone from Massachusetts. Also, he'd already said he wanted to go after the voters with the Confederate Flags and the guns in their pick-up trucks which everyone attacked him for. Those are, by the way, some of the same voters who put Jim Webb into office in Virginia this year, don't fool yourself into thinking they're not. And as such, they're directly responsible for our democratic Majority in Congress. And they're going to be heard- they were heard today when Nancy Pelosi didn't get her way on Murtha. I'm not saying Dean would have won any Southern states as a candidate himself- I doubt that he would have- but he wouldn't have had the anti-war stigma that Kerry had with vets down here. In fact, when he said he'd complained about his back because he didn't want to go to Vietnam, I even heard several people down her comment on him "at least being honest about it."
As far as 2008 goes, I've decided that John Edwards will be my guy in the primaries. I'm not sure Wes Clark could make it anymore- I'm not sure it's time for a general in the White House now. It was back in '04, but not now. War is just becoming somewhat unpopular, ya' know???? Finally. And yes, Edwards being from "down heah" is part of why I'm going to support him, but not all of it by far. I just think he's the only Democrat who might beat Hillary out in the primaries. I know the polls aren't showing that, but I think he can do it. At any rate, that's my take on the Carville-Dean thing- Carville is just jealous of Dean's power, that's all. But, I like them both. And I do hope our party will be realistic when it chooses it's candidate in '08. A lot of voters may want to go Repug just so they can maintain a power balance, so we have to give them a reason to want to vote Democratic. And Hillary really isn't going to be that reason. The Jim Webb voters won't pay any attention to her moderae views- they still don't like her because of Bill- and the Jim Webb voters are the ones who are going to control the outcome of the '08 election. Our choice has to out-charisma McCain, and I think Edwards can do it. He may be the only one who can.
Posted by: Chuck at November 16, 2006 11:01 PM
Thank you, Chuck.
(We're both on central time.) It's always great to have you here when you have time between your travels.
We'll all hang in there.
JOHN LENNON | Instant Karma! (We All Shine On)
Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna knock you right in the head
You better get yourself together
Pretty soon your gonna be dead
What in the world you thinking of?
Laughing in the face of love
What on Earth you try'na do?
It's up to you
Yeah, you
Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna hit you right in the face
You better get yourself together darling
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see?
Laughing at fools like me
Who on Earth d'you think you are?
A superstar?
Well, right you are
And we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well, we all shine on
Everyone, c'mon
Instant Karma's gonna get you
Gonna knock you off your feet
Better recognise your brothers
Everyone you meet
Why in the world are we here?
Surely not to live in pain and fear
Why on Earth are you there
When you're everywhere
Gonna get your share
Well, we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah, we all shine on
C'mon and on and on, on, on
Yeah, yeah
alright
Well, we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah, we all shine on
On and on and on, on and on
And we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well, we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah, we all shine on
Like the moons and the stars and the sun
Yeah, we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Posted by: DiAnne at November 16, 2006 10:41 PM
Which Nevada town? Elko?
Truth:
John Lennon? "Instant Karma"? I thought you said you were a sqaure! Be straight with us now... (I never did believe that).
Chuck in Houston
Truth:
I had a girl friend in College from Elko!
Linda:
Yep, all this North/South stuff will be falling away too. Carville and Dean -- what a Team (rhymes). We all have to get past that North/South thing. No more slamming Texas, and no more slamming Massachusetts (or however it is you spell that). Good people are everywhere, and so are bad.
Here's to you!
Chuck in Houston
Great thread everybody. I have been without computer for nearly two days. Man oh man, talk about withdrawals. Related to the thread head is this little tidbit from IL-6:
Roskam who won his Congressional election by only 2% said it was the fact that he represented the "values" of this district which put him over the top. Well, the letters to the editor were fierce. His "values" are so out of the mainstream, he makes Henry Hyde seem moderate. I am embarrassed to say it, but despite the fact that this area is bursting with Churchs and a world renowned religious college, many of the people here do not have it in their heart to reach out and help those truly in need. Many of the people here function on the philosophy, "What's in it for me?" If they don't see some advantage for themselves, they could care less about any program that might make things better for those less fortunate. For an area that wants to see creationism taught in its schools, the people here operate purely within "the survival of the fittest" arena.
Chuck, yes, and one more thing. If Edwards does run, and I'm 99% sure he will, I hope he chooses a campaign manager who will wash his mouth out with soap if he says "son of a mill worker" more than once a day.
Economic populism is what won this election for the Dems, and I'm thinking it's going to be the issue in '08. And Edwards is the champ of that issue, no doubt about that. Maybe he could put Gen. Clark on as his VP to give his ticket a little "gravitas." I think that would be absoutely perfect. Whatever. Off to bed now, because it is Central Standard time where I am too :-)
Linda good to see you back here but I have to take issue with your saying: "but he(Dean) wouldn't have had the anti-war stigma that Kerry had with vets down here."
Dean was much further to the left of JK about the war and now it looks like he was correct in not wanting to get into Iraq, so I just don't follow your logic about his winning more veteran votes.
I too like Edwards, but after I heard him and met him at my lawschool in january '05 I was totally unimpressed, just heard that same story about his growing up in a mill workers family, as I lip synched his every word in his speech. He needs a new speech writer b/c I doubt voters Linda will want to hear that same worn out line one more time.
Posted by Linda Enterkin at November 16, 2006 11:16 PM
As far as Carville goes, I have to wonder for whose benefit is he willing to start a conflict like this? I have a few thoughts. Southern Dems know that without the funds, they really can't be very competitive in the South. Dean has decided to spread the money around for his "fifty state strategy" (a strategy I agree with ). So if the money wont go to a candidate who might benefit most, Carville can be their mouthpiece. Who would be the candidate with the best chance in the South? Edwards or Clark, but I go with Edwards as Clark probably is not that politically savvy. I think John Edwards put Carville up to it. Just a wild guess. But, I think that Carville is fulfilling the Republican attempts to portray Democrats as dysfunctional.
your post came down as I was typing. Apparently you and the rest of America are a bit tired of that line.The fact that he could not even help carry North Carolina and was jusdged to be in trouble if running for re-election to the US Senate in '04 doesn't give me confidence he would do any better in the south than JK. Just sounding southern doesn't change a thing with voters.
Bubba:
But the particulars of 2008 aside, we've all got a little bit of Dixie in us, and a little bit Yankee. We've got to get past that! On both sides! Building on the Southern side, we've got to search for that commonality and get past all the BS. We have to do that and Webb and Ford and McCasgill (sp?) and others showed a way to start. Heck, Clinton showed us that a long time ago.
Chuck in Houston
Edwards acknowledges Wal-Mart query
yahoo/AP: http://tinyurl.com/yae99t
Wal-Mart Stores Inc. said Thursday that a staff member for former Sen.
John Edwards — a vocal critic of the retailer — asked his local Wal-Mart store for help in getting the potential 2008 presidential candidate a Sony PlayStation 3. Edwards said a volunteer did so by mistake...
November 17, 2006 12:11 AM
BushCo could learn something about taking responsibility ;)
Dear Everyone:
It's not about 2008, IMHO, it's about today and tommorrow and the day after. Please don't let's get hung up on various personalities! Please don't lose the forest for the trees. My naive two-cents anyway. Disregard them at your peril, because pride goeth before a fall (or something like that -- Matthew, help me out here, even if you don't like Bill Clinton).
Signing Off,
Chuck in Houston
By the way, Bush made it to Vietnam for the first time in his life - isn't he about 4 decades too late?
Posted by: DiAnne at November 16, 2006 10:41 PM
Well, he had to be certain it would be safe. While he knows agent orange didn't cause decades of alarming rises in birth deformities in Vietnam, he would have been scared that any residue in the air and water might poison him.
In a way both Carville and Dean have a point.
Dean wants to be competitive in every state which means some candidates who need more money won't get it. But this also means that in 2008, we will be in much better shape to gain seats in areas we never had a chance.
Carville plays the game of funding those who have a chance to win. His method will prevent the Dems from going into places where they are weak. But near election time, marginal candidates will be funded.
So right now, the Dean method is needed the most to grow the party in all areas. As we get closer to the election we may have to "cull the herd" and concentrate of candidates who have a realistic chance of winning.
The goal is to have enough money to do both and by building now we may have enough cash to build the candidate base now and "superfund" candidates who need that extra cash push later.
If Carville gets the job, the party at the local levels will probably stagnate and wither away. That is why we need Dean now to continue building from the bottom up.
I am not interested in Carville stacking the deck for Hillary. That destroys the grass-roots organization that is critical for our success. I don't want Bubba's third term.
I look at Dems and I am reminded of Patton being stuck at the Rhine River because of a lack of gas. The gas was given to Montgomery for the famous "Operation Market Garden". Patton said he was at a perfect time and place in history to end the war. He he had the perfect army and the enemy was never weaker. All he needed was gas.
We Dems have a chance to bury the Repubs for a generation. It is the perfect time and place. We have the candidates; the structure; the ideas. It is our time. Dean had a lot to do with it. I hope we have enough brains to not screw it up. My big worry is we lose the momentum by needless infighting. But we are Dems; what do you expect?
It is true, John Edwards is the only one who can sweep the south.
Either as prez or vp candidate it does not matter.
Kerry made a huge mistake by keeping him on a short leash. He should have been used as an attack dog. georgie and dick never would have been able to overcome it.
It still amazes me that every single person I know here would vote for him, regardless of party. I have never seen a man do that, not even bill clinton.
BTW, I guess yall are wondering why I did not link you up to video yesterday.... Well....
It is because they have once again delayed it, and once again by doing so it has magically wound up in a much better slot.
The reporter over the story will not tell me what he found out because he is protectng his scoop but it is driving me NUTS!!!
He says "Here are the air dates.. they are set in stone. Part one airs Sunday the 25th at 10pm. Part two airs Monday the 26th at 10pm."
So, I guess on the 25th we will find out what 'set in stone' means in tv land.
Dianne: more about the Clear Channel buyout. Ed Schultz talked abou the 450 rural small town stations like in Fargo and Iowa City, sorry about that small town reference kj, that are ripe for the picking(being sold off by this private offering) by someone like Soros to start reaching onservative rural voters. A pipe dream but an opportunity. My querry is whether the change in ownership might effect Rush's ratings.
Incidentally Clear Channel spun off its losing entertainment division called SFX several years ago, my wife was their benefits manager.
Aimzz: as for the Edwards story I wish we would start making fun of the media when we hear this kind of trivia; and just say its silly season for a bored media. CNBC has run the playstation 3 story at least 10 times this morning. Lets see: Republicans have Abramoff, Cunningham and Ney, we have an Edwards staffer who wanted a playstation from Wallmart and oh yes Speaker Pelosi got her second choice for majority leader. How scandalous Mr. Drudge.
Howard Dean made a believer out of me that the South is winnable. I am not sure it was in 2004 regardless of the candidate because the party infrastructure was missing.
Edwards still gives his standard populist speech, which was not the message we were listening to because of the war. I met him in Phoenix last year at an ACORN meeting and there is no one better at moving a crowd. He is a lot like Bubba – who is the best ever. In one-on-one discussion, Edwards is the same. He is not acting and genuinely believes his message. I really like the guy as a person and as a politician.
We are still in a war but people are also paying attention to populist issues. Edwards has been out of the limelight for a while. His lack of foreign policy experience hurt him as a candidate. Will it hurt him now?
I am looking at Kerry, Vilsack, Edwards and Clark very closely.
Kerry has the whole package.
Vilsack has governed a state and as most governors is skilled in foreign economics. What does he know about defense issues?
Clark has the defense thing nailed. He was always weak on domestic issues.
Edwards has little foreign policy experience and has never been a governor. In experience, he is the opposite of Clark. Sum the two together and do you have Kerry?
Until someone better comes along, I am going with Kerry. My choice in 2004 for VP was Clark because of the war issues. In 2008, it depends on the state of the Iraq war. If we are still mired in Iraq then Kerry/Clark is needed. If we are moving past the war into domestic issues then a Kerry/Edwards ticket works for me. I just don’t see Edwards and Clark at the head of the ticket – at least right now.
Hillary…anybody need a good dogcatcher? That is the only office I would vote her for. And she can take Carville with her.
oops..new thread
"My big worry is we lose the momentum by needless infighting. But we are Dems; what do you expect?"
~~Posted by: battlebob at November 17, 2006 06:59 AM
I expect better behavior by everyone. But then, realizing my serenity is in direct proportion to my expectations, I go back to expecting nothing. "Ommmmmmm" ;-)
Posted by: Bubba at November 17, 2006 09:28 AM
Bubba, I took no offense. (Besides, I console myself, I'm a Midwesterner by birth, but a transplant to small towns.) d;-) During the 2004 campaign, you wouldn't believe the commercials I heard on Clear Channel, which owned (among other stations) the alternative college station. It slayed me. I kept telling everyone on the JK blog about it, as far as I could tell, to no avail. Radio is quite underground and quite effective.
FWIW, I thoroughly enjoyed this thread. Thanks, Dick! As Linda E said, economic populism was the theme of the 2006 election and as many here have said, "should" have been the theme of the 2004 campaign. But that's all water under the bridge, we're there now. As Chuck said: "We've got to grow together. Lot's of work to do!"
BTW, Jimmy Hendrix and Janis and John and Jim are jamming together. We just have to "imagine" what they're saying and playing today. :-) Gods, they are.
AND, since there is a new thread, I feel comfortable going completely off-topic. I gotta post this link to Ron's blog. Hit the link to hear Demi Moore sing "Louie Louie." It will surprise you, it will amaze you, and it will remind some of you of the old days. (Plus, it's from the movie "Bobby" so it sorta classifies as political. lol)
http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=631
Watch Barack Obama - lack of foreign policy experience but actually has a father born on another continent. Lives up to his media hype so far and has risen quickly. Prioritizes working across party lines.
Heard a good NPR commentary this morning - said McCain has the biggest base of the Republican contenders but also the lowest ceiling - people who would not vote for him under any circumstances.
Hillary Clinton does not do well in the blogosphere but polls well out in the world - name familiarity maybe.
Could Edwards and Clark run together to combine populism and foreign policy experience in a southern ticket?
The Dem field is going to be really big.
I think Kerry could recover from the "gaffe" (which imo was not a gaffe but a truth, in either interpretation).
I keep thinking Bill Richardson would be good - foreign policy (Ambassador to NK) plus domestic (governor), western state, Hispanic heritage. Saw him at breakfast at YearlyKos in Vegas - jeans and cowboy boots. Bush is not the only one who does that.
Did hear and read about Bush in Vietnam again - he apparently didn't get nearly the welcome Clinton did. Interesting how the accounts talk about Vietnam being Communist but with surging Capitalism, yet we were taught as children that those were polar opposite systems. Given the corporate raiding that is going on again, can't vouch for hypercapitalism = greed anyway.
Don't forget Vilsack of Iowa. He was highly thought of in 2004.
I don't know much about him.
For me, it all starts and ends with Kerry.
Posted by: battlebob at November 17, 2006 09:4