37 Years and Counting

Why we fight?

April 22, 2007
23 Are Taken From Bus and Gunned Down in Iraq
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 3:42 p.m. ET

BAGHDAD (AP) -- Gunmen shot and killed 23 members of an ancient religious sect in northern Iraq on Sunday after stopping their bus and separating out followers of other faiths, while at least 20 people were killed in car bombings in the capital.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki told Egypt's leader, meanwhile, to ignore widespread reports that the country is suffering ''a civil or sectarian war.'' He also said he would halt the construction of a barrier that would separate a Sunni enclave from surrounding Shiite areas in Baghdad that had drawn sharp criticism from Sunni leaders and residents.

In the northern Iraq attack, armed men stopped the bus as it was carrying workers from a textile factory in Mosul to their hometown of Bashika, which has a mixed population of Christians and Yazidis -- a primarily Kurdish sect that worships an angel figure considered to be the devil by some Muslims ad Christians.

The gunmen checked the passengers' identification cards, then asked all Christians to get off the bus, said police Brig. Mohammed al-Wagga. With the Yazidis still inside, the gunmen drove them to eastern Mosul, where they were lined up along a wall and shot to death, al-Wagga said.

After the killings, hundreds of Yazidis took to the streets of Bashika. Shops were shuttered and many Muslim residents closed themselves in their homes, fearing reprisal attacks. Police set up additional checkpoints across the city.

Bashika is about 80 percent Yazidi, 15 percent Christian and five percent Muslim.

Abdul-Karim Khalaf, a police spokesman for Ninevah province, said the executions were in response to the killing two weeks ago of a Yazidi woman who had recently converted to Islam after she fell in love with a Muslim and ran off with him. Her relatives had disapproved of the match and dragged her back to Bashika, where she was stoned to death, he said.

A grainy video showing gruesome scenes of the woman's killing was distributed on Iraqi Web sites in recent weeks, but its authenticity could not be independently confirmed.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Iraq.html

Yeh,but things are getting better and from the MSM this am we'd better support the effort...OVER THERE!!

OY.
First of all, thanks Rick for the Pogo revisit--surely one of the all-time uber-strips. The punchline is shattering, and I use it often.

It's a beautiful day here today. Both our kids have decided on colleges (Larry to Washington College in Chestertown MD. and Dana to Vassar--they gave her a lot of money, lucky child!). Our financial future is assured...poor, but happy!

The trees are in full flower on the Hill and we walked around today, inhaling. We talked about when Alberto might go (Wednesday? Friday after 5:00?), the upcoming week of tasks, normal-like stuff.

And then we think about Baghdad. And New Orleans. And the workers who apply Atrazine to crops. And the friends with cancer and poor healthcare plans. And the NCLB scandals (believe me, there is more to come on the who-profits-from-this-law front). And voting issues. And so on and on and on...

I come here to see what you all think and know, and to share my own thoughts. I have reconciled myself to the fact that talking it over matters and that that's what we do here. I trust everyone here to take the info and run with it, to the extent that running is possible. We have good writers, good thinkers, and good hearts here. Really, that's good enough for me at this point.

So happy Sunday everyone, there's another week a comin', meetcha back here for inspiration and information...

We are going to watch "Reds" now.

I've never heard of Pogo. Does this mean I'm disowned?

We had a beautiful day around here too. Eighty degrees. The trees are so confused they don't know if they should bud or not bud.

Larry--Congrats on chosing Washington College. It sounds like a great school and I think you deserve the best, so I'm glad you're going for it.

Dana--Congrats on chosing Vassar. It's great that they gave you lots of money to go there, but it's also a wonderful college.

Karen here's a special website for you to visit when the you miss the kids chirping.
http://www.emptynestmoms.com/testimonials.html

Dick, here's the website to visit to make Karen feel better.
http://www.teuscherfifthavenue.com/

Posted by: karen at April 22, 2007 07:29 PM

... and I'm listenin' to the Blues.

Anyone drinkin any white?

ON THE CONSPIRACY FRONT:

Help me out on this one... I am getting emails about the shooter at Virginia Tech. Apparently his sister has a "sensitive" job with contractor doing business in Iraq (reconstruction?). Now the conspiracy theory goes that Cho's sister is a CIA agent.... that there were others involved in the shootings...

Does anyone know why the first shooting at VT took place (any motive?) and then the shooter stopped and went to a second location (motive to go to the second location??)

just curious... (I have avoided any coverage of the shootings since most of it is just "mourning" and "victim coverage".)

no clue ralph.

sorry!

Posted by: Ralpheh at April 22, 2007 09:02 PM

Cho's sister is contracted with the State Department, and I don't think CIA would fall into her area.

Posted by: karen at April 22, 2007 07:29 PM

Congratulations to both your kids!

Does anyone know why the first shooting at VT took place (any motive?) and then the shooter stopped and went to a second location (motive to go to the second location??)

Posted by: Ralpheh at April 22, 2007 09:02 PM

I believe that Cho went to Norris Hall in order to kill the German professor, who had reprimanded him previously.

Posted by: Ralpheh at April 22, 2007 09:02 PM

There can't be anybody who is capable of *completely* understanding why a psychotic, delusional, and paranoid individual would murder 32 other people. I think the best we can say is that he was truly insane throughout his planning, taping and execution of his plans, and his insanity reached a crescendo of monumnetal proportions when he went on his kiling spree. It would be convenient to attribute this completely senseless act to a conspiracy, however the conspiracy was isolated in the shooter's mind.

In some ways this question and my response relates to the thread head. Our country has a plethora of gun laws, and according to federal law, Cho would not have been allowed to buy a gun. Yet, the Virginia system was an enemy unto itself when the gun merchants did not practice due diligence and follow the federal rules. Having said that, I feel our country is over ridden with these instruments of death which truly are a public health hazard.

oncall its been a long time. My niece fortunately had late classes on that day and my Hoakie inlaws are pretty shaken. I have come to believe that gun laws rarely stop this kind of insanity but that maybe not having automatic weapons or clips that hold tens of rounds might have saved some lives. It just seems that we can't stop gun violence, maybe just slow it down or duce it. Maybe its just this beautiful Santa Barbara weather weather or my cynicism but with millions of guns in this country its just not going to stop in my lifetime. Seems like we should be doing more to care for mental illness, I believe its called the Sheila Wellstone mental parity bill.

Seems like we should be doing more to care for mental illness, I believe its called the Sheila Wellstone mental parity bill.

Posted by: Bubba at April 23, 2007 12:14 AM

Mental hospitals should be helping those who really need help, instead of just labeling political dissidents "insane" (as the media tried to do to Al Gore) and locking them up without good reason.

Rove, ever gracious, on global warming and the American people
article by Laurie David and Sheryl Crow:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laurie-david-and-sheryl-crow/karl-rove-gets-thrown-und_b_46501.html

Excerpts:
". . We asked Mr. Rove if he would consider taking a fresh look at the science of global warming. Much to our dismay, he immediately got combative. And it went downhill from there.

"We reminded the senior White House advisor that the US leads the world in global warming pollution and we are doing the least about it. Anger flaring, Mr. Rove immediately regurgitated the official Administration position on global warming which is that the US spends more on researching the causes than any other country.
. . .
"At some point during his ramblings, we became heartbroken to think that the President of the United States and his top advisers have partially built a career on global warming not being real. We have been telling college students across the country for the past two weeks that government does not change until people demand it... well, listen up folks, everyone had better get a lot louder because the message clearly is not getting through.

"In his attempt to dismiss us, Mr. Rove turned to head toward his table, but as soon as he did so, Sheryl reached out to touch his arm. Karl swung around and spat, "Don't touch me." How hardened and removed from reality must a person be to refuse to be touched by Sheryl Crow? Unphased, Sheryl abruptly responded, "You can't speak to us like that, you work for us." Karl then quipped, "I don't work for you, I work for the American people." To which Sheryl promptly reminded him, "We are the American people."
. .

more at url above

A day late (and always more than a dollar short)...

Here's the Dalai Lama's version of Pogo:

"'We' and 'they' no longer exist. This planet is just us. The destruction of one are is the destruction of yourself. That is the new reality."
- Dalai Lama

Thanks for the wisdom of the Dalai Lama, madame. So true in so many ways.

Posted by: Bubba at April 23, 2007 12:14 AM

Agreed that our mental health system has been a victim of countless budget cuts, ambivelence and apathy. Perhaps the people of Virginia might seem more inclined to provide more mental health assistance to those who need it. When one gets down to the bottom of the tragedy, Cho can not be held unaccountable, but it is the State of Virginia that is ultimately responsible.

As regards to guns and bullets, I have made the simple, but controversial proposal that guns remain legal but the bullets be made illegal.

Posted by: oncall at April 23, 2007 08:40 AM

I believe Daniel Patrick Moynihan made the same proposal while he was in the US Senate. It would certainly be a way of getting around the 2nd Amendment issue.

As to the larger issue, as an advocate for the de-stigmatization of psychotheraphy, and increased funding of various mental health/personal growth methods, I do think that both Virginia and Cho bear some degree of responsibility here.

Obviously, there was no way that he should have been allowed to buy a firearm; and after he was declared a danger to himself, someone had to be made responsible for insuring that he entered an appropriate treatment program. But I'd also argue that the individual has an obligation to confront reality. If this person was functional enough to attend a university, he was functional enough to recognize that he was suffering from a serious form of alienation; and inasmuch as it was his life, it was his responsibility to do whatever was necessary to heal. We can blame the system, but, in the end, no system will work if the individual is unwilling to do their part. And in this case, that unwillingness led not merely to their own destruction, but the destruction of dozens, if not hundreds, of lives.

Good to *see* you, dwahzon & oncall!

Morning News:

Al-Maliki: No Wall in Baghdad

Al-Maliki Orders a halt to construction of wall around Sunni neighborhood in Baghdad
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=3065982

This is going to be interesting...

Apparently, L'il George is making televised remarks today RE: Iraq. Wonder if he'll mention this...

Seems like this administration can't get an even break these days. Just breaks my heart.

". . The destruction of one are is the destruction of yourself. That is the new reality."
- Dalai Lama
Posted by: madame defarge at April 23, 2007 08:09 AM

Thanks for this great quote, MDF.

Posted by: madame defarge at April 23, 2007 09:03 AM

We got to visit with a lot of people in the chat room Saturday night!

It was decided that during the summer we'd open up the chat room at specific times in the evening. (Other than that, a general call-out on the blog is what we're going to continue to do.)

We can do the same for the morning hours but we need a host or hostess.

Oops. *Now* I see my typo... Bad finger karma this morning. Here's what the Dalai Lama *really* said:

". . The destruction of one is the destruction of yourself. That is the new reality."

Carry On Till Tomorrow
by Badfinger

In younger days, I told myself my life would be my own
And I'd leave the place where sunshine never shone
For my life's too short for waiting when I see the rising sun
Then I know again that I must carry on
Carry on till tomorow, there's no reason to look back
Carry on, carry on, carry on
Beyond the shadows of the clouds and onward to the sky
Carry on till I find the rainbow's end
For my life's too short for waiting when I see the rising sun
Then I know again that I must carry on

Carry on till tomorow, there's no reason to look back
Carry on, carry on, carry on

Drifting on the wings of freedom, leave this stormy day
And we'll ride to tomorrow's golden fields
For my life's too short for waiting when I see the rising sun
Then I know again that I must carry on

Carry on, carry on, carry on

And when the heavy journey's done, I'll rest my weary head
For the world and it's colours will be mine
For my life's too short for waiting when I see the setting sun
Then I know again that I must carry on

Carry on till tomorow, there's no reason to look back
Carry on, carry on, carry on

Posted by: mbk at April 23, 2007 07:46 AM
That article about Rove so sickened me that I have made a graphic to go with it. http://www.silencedmajority.blogs.com

Excuse for war?!

AL-QAEDA leaders in Iraq are planning the first "large-scale" terrorist attacks on Britain and other western targets with the help of supporters in Iran, according to a leaked intelligence report.

Spy chiefs warn that one operative had said he was planning an attack on "a par with Hiroshima and Nagasaki" in an attempt to "shake the Roman throne", a reference to the West, according to The Times newspaper in the UK.

Another plot could be timed to coincide with Tony Blair stepping down as prime minister, an event described by Al-Qaeda planners as a "change in the head of the company". The report, produced earlier this month and seen by The Sunday Times, appears to provide evidence that Al-Qaeda is active in Iran and has ambitions far beyond the improvised attacks it has been waging against British and American soldiers in Iraq.

It follows revelations last year that up to 150 Britons had travelled to Iraq to fight as part of Al-Qaeda¢s "foreign legion". A number are thought to have returned to the UK, after receiving terrorist training, to form sleeper cells. The report was compiled by the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre (JTAC) - based at MI5¢s London headquarters - and provides a quarterly review of the international terror threat to Britain.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,216...

UTube Video of the protest of Bush in East Grand Rapids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVR9gWErlGE

That protest was in Michigan, on Friday....

Bush renews backing for Gonzales
President calls embattled attorney general an 'honest, honorable man'

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush gave embattled Attorney General Alberto Gonzales a strong vote of confidence on Monday despite scant support for him among key Republicans.

"This is an honest, honorable man, in whom I have confidence," Bush said.

The president said that Gonzales' testimony before skeptical Judiciary Committee senators last week "increased my confidence" in his ability to lead the Justice Department. Separately, a White House spokeswoman said, "He's staying."

Bush said that while some senators did not like the way Gonzales answered the questions, he continues to back his attorney general.

"As the hearings went forward, it was clear the attorney general broke no law, there's no wrongdoing," Bush said.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18272340/from/RS.2/

Posted by: Ralpheh at April 23, 2007 10:53 AM

Thanks, Ralpheh. I've never seen Grand Rapids look so good!

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 11:03 AM

"You're doing a heckuva job, Gonzo..."

Ralpheh
Good job, Michigan!

What happened to the guy they arrested at VT in connection with the shootings? Early reports stated that an individual had been arrested and was being questioned...I saw a picture that showed police handcuffing an Asian man.

That was a damn good protest... BTW these protests in "red" parts of Michigan are showing how Bush is losing support in his Republican stronghold areas. Grand Rapids was picked by the Bushies because it is in the heart of rightwing Republicanland in Michigan.

Similarly the protests of Rove in West Bloomfield and Jackson were also in Republican bastions..

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As Democrats ponder their strategy in the face of an inevitable veto of their proposal to withdraw troops from Iraq, President Bush met privately Monday with the top U.S. commander in the war-ravaged nation.

Bush and Gen. David Petraeus discussed the status of the new strategy in Iraq, which both men have recently said is beginning to show signs of success.

"There's been some progress," Bush said during a press briefing after his meeting. "There's been some horrific bombings, of course. There's also been a decline in sectarian violence."

Bush said Petraeus will meet with lawmakers on Capitol Hill later Monday to brief them on "what's going right and what's not going right."

Meanwhile, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada is expected to say that Congress will no longer "turn a blind eye to the Bush administration's incompetence and dishonesty."

He is further expected to say that winning the war in Iraq is a political rather than military endeavor.

"Our troops have already done their job. They routed the Iraqi military, captured Baghdad in days, deposed and then captured the dictator. The military mission has long since been accomplished," Reid will say, according to an advance transcript of his remarks. "The failure has been political. It has been policy. It has been presidential."

In the Monday briefing, Bush reiterated his vow to veto any timetable to withdraw troops and said, "I believe strongly that politicians in Washington should not be telling generals how to do their job."

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/23/bush.iraq/index.html

Gen. David Petraeus told a newspaper, "Iraq is going to have to learn -- as did, say, Northern Ireland -- to live with some degree of sensational attacks."

Posted by: V at April 23, 2007 11:54 AM

I believe he (a campus newspaper photographer) was let go after an hour.

The Asian guy, whose physical description resembled the gunman's, was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Talk is free...in the irc channel. I'll be there around 7 pm.

Hoping to talk to more than myself, so please join me!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/23/krugman-offers-a-new-frame-for-war-funding-debate/

When it comes to the soon-to-be-vetoed funding bill for the war in Iraq, the White House would have us believe that anything short of a blank check for the president is a vote against the troops. Paul Krugman offers an alternative frame: this is a hostage situation.

There are two ways to describe the confrontation between Congress and the Bush administration over funding for the Iraq surge. You can pretend that it’s a normal political dispute. Or you can see it for what it really is: a hostage situation, in which a beleaguered President Bush, barricaded in the White House, is threatening dire consequences for innocent bystanders — the troops — if his demands aren’t met.

If this were a normal political dispute, Democrats in Congress would clearly hold the upper hand: by a huge margin, Americans say they want a timetable for withdrawal, and by a large margin they also say they trust Congress, not Mr. Bush, to do a better job handling the situation in Iraq.

But this isn’t a normal political dispute. Mr. Bush isn’t really trying to win the argument on the merits. He’s just betting that the people outside the barricade care more than he does about the fate of those innocent bystanders.

Krugman concludes, "Confronting Mr. Bush on Iraq has become a patriotic duty." Truer words were never spoken.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/23/decorated-texas-vet-to-present-g-dub-with-a-purple-heart/

~~ Grab your barf bags before you read this~~

History will be made today when Copperas Cove resident Bill Thomas and his wife, Georgia, present President George W. Bush with a Purple Heart at the Oval Office.

Thomas said he and his wife came up with the unprecedented idea to present the president with the Purple Heart over breakfast one morning a few months ago as they discussed the verbal attacks, both foreign and domestic, the commander in chief has withstood during his time in office.

"We feel like emotional wounds and scars are as hard to carry as physical wounds," Thomas said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070423/gonzales-prosecutors

Bush and Gonzales insist he's staying. "He admits mistakes but as long as he's effective..."
~~
So, let's let all the fired prosecutors stay too.

I'd love to see them go after the top-criminals-in-charge.

Posted by: sparrow at April 23, 2007 02:29 PM

&#$%&&@^#^$%_@!#*$%*@@((%)@!!!!!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070423/us-iraq

WASHINGTON — Defying a fresh veto threat, the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass legislation within days requiring the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq beginning Oct. 1, with a goal of completing the pullout six months later, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Monday.

Reid said the legislation "immediately transitions the U.S. military away from policing a civil war." He said that troops that remain in Iraq after next April 1 could only train Iraqi security units, protect U.S forces and conduct "targeted counter-terror operations."

The Nevada Democrat outlined the elements of the legislation in a speech a few hours after Bush said he will reject any legislation along the lines of what Democrats intend to pass

snip

Negotiators for the House and Senate arranged a late-afternoon meeting to ratify the timetable that Reid laid out. The demand for a change in course will be attached to a funding bill that is needed to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Under an agreement by Democratic leaders, the final bill could trigger the withdrawal of U.S. troops as early as July 1 if Bush cannot certify that the Iraqi government is making progress in disarming militias, reducing sectarian violence and forging political compromises.

The bill also would withhold foreign aid money if the Iraqi government does not meet certain benchmarks.

As part of the same measure, congressional negotiators also tentatively agreed on about $25 billion not requested by Bush for medical care for troops and veterans, aid to the victims of Hurricane Katrina, farm disaster relief and other programs.

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 02:39 PM

Dr. my eyes have seen the years
and this slow parade of fears
without crying
now I want to understand

I have done all that I could
to see the evil and the good
without hiding
you must help me if you can

Dr. my eyes
tell me what is wrong
was I unwise
to leave them open for so long?

'cause I have wandered through this world
and each moment has unfurled
I've been waiting to awaken from these dreams

('cause) people go just where they will
I never notice them until i've got this fear that it's later than it seems

Dr. my eyes
tell me what you see
I hear the cries
say if it's to late for me

Dr. my eyes
tell me what you see
I hear the cries
say if it's to late for me

Dr. my eyes
I cannot see the sky
is this the prize
for learning not to cry?

Why not give the preznit a tiny little purple violin instead?

As the son of a Vietnam veteran, I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER offer forgiveness for the Purple BandAid slap in the face in '04.

!@$#%$)&!#%$*****

Dana Milbank and Libby Copeland confirm their lack of credentials (or is it brains) in this piece about the WH Correspondents dinner.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/22/AR2007042201465_pf.html

OK, this is REALLY important! The FDA wants to let candy manufacturers make chocolate with fats (like trans fats) other than cocoa butter.

That's the last straw for me. Now I'm pissed. And I hope all you chocolate lovers/addicts (and supporters of us chocolate addicts) will join me in sending a note to the FDA. I'm really not kidding.

Please tell the FDA, "Don't mess with our chocolate!"

http://dontmesswithourchocolate.guittard.com/howtohelp.asp

(BTW, I didn't mean to imply that other posts here aren't really important too. They are all important. But...they're trying to mess with CHOCOLATE!!!)

Posted by: madame defarge at April 23, 2007 03:38 PM

Finally, an issue all Americans can rally behind...

This is not encouraging.

Globalization Won't Stop; How To Deal With It UPDATE
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/23/73614/8397

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 03:39 PM

I'm sure you're not being sarcastic. (Are you???) And I hope you're right. Who doesn't like chocolate???

I am interrupting my book editing to deal with the CHOCOLATE issue. I am serious--this is what is WRONG with this country!!! All missteps and evil acts fall out from the willingness to mess with the most important boundary-crossing product around!

I will happily find alternatives to fossil fuels and, with few exceptions, I will even replace candidates, and war is already obsolete. It must go.

But don't mess with chocolate!

Posted by: sparrow at April 23, 2007 02:29 PM

These worshippers of Prophet W all need to burn in hell.

Posted by: sparrow at April 23, 2007 03:43 PM

The only solace in this is that between rising wages and transportation costs, China isn't the bargain that it once was.

Pretty soon, the Chinese will have to compete on quality rather than price, like everyone else.

Reid defends calling Iraq war 'lost,' calling Bush 'a liar'

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid defended calling the war in Iraq "lost" in an interview with CNN's Dana Bash Monday.

"General Petreaus has said the war cannot be won militarily, he's said that," Reid said. "And President Bush is doing nothing economically, he's doing nothing diplomatically, he's not doing anything even the minimal requested by the Iraq Study Group, so I stick with General Petreaus. I have no doubt the war cannot be won militarily and that's what I said last Thursday and I stick with that."

His comments have triggered angry backlash from the White House and a number of Republican congressmen. Some have said that his comments send the wrong message to the troops.

"I do what I think is right, and I think this war is headed in the wrong direction," Reid said. "And I'm going to speak out as often and as regularly as I can."

Reid has been an outspoken critic of the president, calling him a loser and a liar in the past.

"I don't back off that at all," he said. "So if you say something that is untrue to me and in the right circumstances, I will call you a liar. I have no regret having called him a liar, because he lied."

more...
http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/

Posted by: karen at April 23, 2007 04:21 PM

I knew I could count on you to take action!!!

Comcast apparently has a Forum and one of the popular topics is called "Is Harry Reid a Traitor?" - I suppose for suggesting the war is a lost cause (in Iraq). Talk about "framing" - and people fall for it! That is SO 2001!!

Let's count how many times the Constitution has been violated by the Bush administration, and then ask who is a traitor.

Commander Salamander

Posted by: not my president at April 23, 2007 04:40 PM

The problem is that we let the Republicans do all the framing, and the Democrats just sit and take hits.

Kucinich to call for impeaching Cheney

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich, a Democratic presidential hopeful, will announce Tuesday he plans to introduce Articles of Impeachment against Vice President Dick Cheney.

But the chances or "slim to none" that House Democratic leaders will advance Kucinich's impeachment articles, CNN's Senior Political Correspondent Candy Crowley said.

"This is something they don't want to get into," Crowley said. "First of all, because the American people didn't vote the Democrats into office last year, they don't think, in order to do impeachment. They think that the American people voted them in to help bring about an end to this war."

"There is also the lesson learned from the impeachment of Bill Clinton which was very unpopular with people," she added. "In fact, Clinton retained a popularity rate which President Bush doesn't have."

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/04/kucinich-to-call-for-impeaching-cheney.html

Anywone wanna debate why President Clinton retained a popularity rate that Bush hasn't???

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 04:53 PM

um...cuz everyone wants to "love the one you're with" like Clinton did.

But this is all Bush is good for:

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

Ohhh, war, I despise
Because it means destruction
Of innocent lives

War means tears
To thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
And lose their lives

I said, war, huh
Good God, y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing
But a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Ooooh, war
It's an enemy to all mankind
The point of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest
Within the younger generation
Induction then destruction
Who wants to die
Aaaaah, war-huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it, say it, say it
War, huh
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y'all
War, huh, good God
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, it's got one friend
That's the undertaker
Ooooh, war, has shattered
Many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled, bitter and mean
Life is much to short and precious
To spend fighting wars these days
War can't give life
It can only take it away

Ooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War, whoa, Lord
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me

War, it ain't nothing but a heartbreaker
War, friend only to the undertaker
Peace, love and understanding
Tell me, is there no place for them today
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there's got to be a better way

Ooooooh, war, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
You tell me
Say it, say it, say it, say it

War, huh
Good God y'all
What is it good for
Stand up and shout it
Nothing

Posted by: madame defarge at April 23, 2007 03:29 PM
Posted by: karen at April 23, 2007 04:21 PM

Okay. This is trivial compared with major things going on in the world, but who wants to eat chocolate without original ingredients in it?!?!? Real chocolate/cocoa has natural "feel-good" ingredients, which is why it was considered an aphrodesiac by ancient peoples.

With my luck, the replacement fat ingredient for cocoa butter will be on my list of food allergies, and I'll have to give up chocolate completely. That is not a situation I wish to contemplate, because it would mean I'd have to read the fine print of yet more labels, and I'm already a fanatic label-reader because of stupid food allergies (which, if eaten accidentally, produce three-day migraines).

Me minus chocolate equals a very cranky consumer.... Good chocolate, like good ice cream, as a reward or as consolation every once in a while is mandatory to survive the horrible news coming from DC or Iraq or Afghanistan or wherever on a daily basis.

Since every major change like this proposed NONSENSE revolves around MONEY, specifically for corporations, not for the benefit of consumers, I want to know which corporations would benefit from making fake "chocolate-flavored chocolate"?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.........

Posted by: sparrow at April 23, 2007 03:43 PM

Globalization was good as long as we were on the receiving end of it. Someone (comment 400 or so) actually made the comment that developed nations always have slower growth rates than developing nations. Difference is, we are no longer a developing nation.

The cost of transportation tends to favor products being produced closer to home; and developed nations have always been able to market high-end or high-quality products. Plus, we are still a center for innovation. And lest we forget, a rising middle class around the world means more disposable income to buy more goods. It's the Henry Ford lesson.

Posted by: NonnyO at April 23, 2007 06:29 PM

If the chocolate tastes disgusting, who's going to buy it?

If nobody buys it, will the company keep making it, whether or not they're "allowed" to do so?

I don't see why things like this need government regulation...or how, constitutionally, the government even CAN regulate the definition of "chocolate".

The Newshour reported that David Halberstam was killed in a car accident today. Halberstam was best known for his book, "The Best and the Brightest".

If only more Bush Administration officials had read it.

Trying to reload Java right now to get in the irc.

I am sitting in a panel discussion on torture that my friend Marietta has put together at Catholic University. Here is the skinny:

Monday, April 23rd, at 7:00pm, there is a symposium on torture at the Catholic University, Herzfeld Auditorium in Hannan Hall, 620 Michigan
Avenue, N.E. The panel of speakers includes Brent Mickum, the second habeas attorney permitted access to prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, John Kelly, reporter, script writer and assistant producer of the BBC documentary "Torture: America's Brutal prisons." Dr. William A. Barbieri, Jr., Associate Professor of Ethics and Director of the Peace and Justice Studies Program at Catholic University and Orlando Tizon, torture survivor and Assistant Director of the Torture Abolition and Survivors Support Coalition International (TASSC).

irc open for visitors!

Thanks Karen for that information. Do you think they'd be interested in having Jesselyn Radack speak?

Brent Mickum reading a pretty horrific description of a prisoner being tortured, all of which the Bush Administration decided was *not* torture: strangulation, beatings, cigarettes into body orifices. He is reading from FBI documents. Directly.

Brent won a case recently--a prisoner was released recently and got to go home to London.

All of his clients were arrested in AFRICA, btw.

Read more here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1388268,00.html

Another:

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brent_mickum/2007/01/post_885.html

Guantanamo was supposed to be an interrogation center, not a prison. We were not prepared to turn it into a holding place and we have treated the prisoners as if they are guilty.

Only 8% at GITMO ever had any contact with Al Quaeda. Almost everyone released thus far has been found innocent in their home countries. Most were turned over by warlords or others...

...for money.

From the forward to the most current edition of Halberstam's book:

""For anyone who aspires to a position of national leadership, no matter the circumstances of his or her birth, this book should be mandatory reading. And anyone who feels a need, as a confused former prisoner of war once felt the need, for insights into how a great and good nation can lose a war and see its worthy purposes and principles destroyed by self-delusion can do no better than to read and reread David Halberstam’s The Best and the Brightest."

You'll never believe whose words those are.

http://tassc.org/

Orlando Tizon, who was arrested in the Phillipines when he spoke out against Marcos. A moment of silence for the victims of genocide in Rwanda twenty years ago, and the students and teachers at VT earlier last week.

Orlando is telling us about torture, and what it is to survive it.

"the grief that does not speak"...

Although Orlando is speaking, graphically, and sweetly about the kinds of torture he has seen.

Orlando discussing his ten years of wondering about his state of mind, after he came to the US after FOUR YEARS of torture. He eventually received therapy, and then hope.

The wounds inflicted on the soul take much longer to heal. They are invisible and can escape even the most observant therapists.

He is talking about a woman who can't ride the DC Metro b/c when the train goes underground it reminds her of the underground prison she spent years in.

I don't see why things like this need government regulation...or how, constitutionally, the government even CAN regulate the definition of "chocolate".

Posted by: V at April 23, 2007 06:44 PM

Someone has to determine what is "organic." If not the government, someone has to come to a consensus, someone or some body has to advocate for the consumer. Not all companies are going to be ethical. If the government isn't going to regulate anything such as what constitutes chocolate, than what business do they have telling us what contraceptives we can use or what drugs we can take recreationally?

We now have e coli in produce and in ground meat in this country.

We regulate 9 chemicals out of cosmetics and in the EU there are
450.

If our government is not going to regulate anything but only supply defense, why do we need a government at all?

As it is, the FDA derives its authority from acts of Congress. They use the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act insure accurate labelling and contents. They also have the right to limit and outright ban products including medical devices such as electrical shock units I learned to safely use last weekend.

Not covered by the FDA are products from animals, which fall under the Department of Agriculture. FDA regulates dietary supplements as foods not drugs, so they are subject to different standards than drugs so for supplements it's mostly a matter of not making extravagant claims about what they can do. They regulate bottled water but so do states. Tap water is regulated by the EPA. Cosmetic labelling is regulated by the FDA and they oversee safety and efficacy of nonprescription drugs. Drugs have to weigh benefits against side effects.

Chocolate is food so regulated by the FDA. Research is showing large detrimental effects of transfats, nicotime etc. These are "on the market" so they must be regulated by the FDA.

With street drugs, people take their chances, but until chocolate is illegal and a street drug, it is a food and must be and should be regulated by the government. If not, the obesity epidemic and costs for cardiac problems are going to be even greater than they already are.

I believe the government should stay out of our bedrooms but regulate our chocolate.

Next up: Dr. William A. Barbieri, Jr., Associate Professor of Ethics and Director of the Peace and Justice Studies Program at Catholic University.

Torture is outlawed in international law. But we have narrowed the definition of torture, so we can say we don't torture.

Jesselyn Radacks diary today on torture and Lindh.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/4/23/6142/98126

Question: is is torture if we are forced to listen to a comparison between Catholic and Christian definitions of torture that is going on waaaay too long?

Just askin'

For what it's worth...here's info on transfats.

http://www.fda.gov/oc/initiatives/transfat/backgrounder.html

Posted by: not my president at April 23, 2007 07:51 PM

NMP...I wasn't asking if government regulation of the word "chocolate" was in itself good or bad...I was asking where the constitutional authority was.

OH--we just hit the Inquisition.

V--it's in the preamble. "promote general welfare"

~~~

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Now I am wondering how the Communists in the room are processing this theological and moral lecture...

Suicide blast kills 9 U.S. soldiers
Attack in Diyala province comes on same day 5 other explosions kill 46

BREAKING NEWS
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 5 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Nine U.S. soldiers were killed after a suicide bomber exploded a vehicle in Diyala province, the U.S. military reported Monday. Twenty soldiers and one Iraqi civilian were wounded in the blast.

Twelve soldiers were returned to duty after receiving treatment, the reports said. Eight soldiers and the Iraqi civilian were evacuated for further treatment. Three of those soldiers later returned to duty, the report said.

The names of the soldiers who were killed are being held pending notification of their families. All were members of Task Force Lightning.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18268472/

Glad it's going better in Iraq.

Posted by: karen at April 23, 2007 08:08 PM

I know that this country has made a mockery of theology and morality and has no ground to stand on when lecturing others on how to perform.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Posted by: karen at April 23, 2007 08:12 PM

Yup, nine folks with stones bigger than Texas were just blown to bits today as a sacrifice to greed.

9 Lives

monkey,

irc calling you. Do you hear it saying your name?

M o n k e y

9 lives plus a million more.

I'm really afraid Bush will not end the war until all the soldiers are gone and the Iraqis too.

I'm really afraid Bush will not end the war until all the soldiers are gone and the Iraqis too.

Posted by: sparrow at April 23, 2007 08:17 PM

Stephanie Miller was mentioning that people are now being sent to Iraq with only ten days of boot camp training.

This is not a way to fight the war. We are doomed to lose - Reid is right.

Next up: (The other guy finally finished):

John Kelly, reporter, script writer and assistant producer of the BBC documentary "Torture: America's Brutal prisons."

Answered my own question.

1938 Food, Drug and Cosmetics Act...enabled the FDA to do its deeds under the umbrella of the interstate commerce clause in the Constitution.

But aren't foods federally regulated even if they don't cross state lines?

John Kelly once submitted William Colby's name for excommunication.

V
You also asked why things like chocolate need government regulation. Profit motive may come before public health, that's why. If the government is primarily for companies rather than people, then we are lost.

As for the Constitution, if the FDA is controlled by Congress, it would depend on how members of Congress interpret the Constitution. How does any law or regulation relate to the Constitution? That is a matter of the relationship between the Constitution and Congress.

V
Some states have tougher regulations than federal regulations are for many things, especially on the west coast. Some governors are also protesting federal mandates to do certain things, especially if they are unfunded. A recent example is the National ID card, and it's not just "blue states" that are balking. Count in Idaho and Wyoming.

sparrow... cant get in :-(
still tryin

Posted by: not my president at April 23, 2007 08:26 PM

Montana said it won't comply with the REAL ID Act. Period.

Here in California though, the illegal immigration hysteria means that REAL ID Act is something the Governator welcomes with open arms.

John Kelly just ranted about how the CIA is a culture of death and the Catholic Church is not speaking out against it.

CIA is named one of the "terrorists livin' here in the USA" by the Black Eyed Peas in their song "Where Is the Love."

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 08:29 PM

uh oh! You might have to update your java.

I had to do that earlier too.

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 08:10 PM

We fought your wars with all our hearts
You sent us back in body parts
You took our wills with the truth you stole
We offer prayers for your long lost soul
The remainder is An unjustifiable, egotistical, power struggle
At the expense of the American dream --
A.D.D. (American Dream Denial)
by System of a Down

Voices on the radio
Tell us that we're going to war
Those brave men and women in uniform
They want to know what they're fighting for
The generals want to hear the end game
The allies won't approve the plan
But the oil men in the White House
They just don't give a damn
'Cause it's all about the price of oil --
The Price of Oil by Billy Bragg

I wake up all fear and dread-locked by all the things I cannot talk about.
We built our house of cards on ignorance, a landfill of deceit.
The walls are hollow, and we listen, worry what they will secrete.
Woe woe woe woe woe woe woe woe is we.
We all know they've got it fixed in politico-economics.
We're junking bonds; we're dropping bombs we've made by guzzling gasoline.
Public confidence is shaken like the apple from the tree. --
The Way by Mia Doi Todd

No boom boom boom Mr. son of a Bush
Don't push that button talkin' loud sayin' nothin'
He wanna blow it through the moon
So no boom boom boom
No Boom Boom by Chuck D

If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq.
And your ties to them are showin', bomb Iraq.
If the smoking gun ain't smokin' We don't care, and we're not jokin'.
That Saddam will soon be croakin', Bomb Iraq.
Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq.
From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq.
So to hell with the inspections;
Let's look tough for the elections,
Close your mind and take directions, Bomb Iraq. --
Bomb Iraq by Various Authors

Hellfire and brimstone
Swapped for oil and guns
When we're pushing up daisies
We all look the same
In the name of the father maybe
But not in my name --
Jacob's Ladder by Chumbawamba

A new man in the White House
With a familiar name
Said he had some fresh ideas
But it's worse now since he came
From Texas to Washington
He wants to fight with many
And he says it's not for oil
He sent out the National Guard
To police the world
From Baghdad to Washington --
From Washington by John Mellencamp

Bush Sr.: 'Bush fatigue' may be setting in

http://www.cnn.com/POLITICS/blogs/politicalticker/2007/04/bush-sr-bush-fatigue-may-be-setting-in.html

SHHhhhh... listen... you can hear the sound of lightbulbs coming on in the Bush clan's heads.

This regulation thing gets me going. To me, the government regulates what it shouldn't regulate, and ignores what it should regulate, but what do I know - I'm a liberal.

This government doesn't like to pay for anything. They will get tired of paying for everything for the Iraqis too. If it were not for money being made off weapons and via contractors and the chance to get at oil, we'd be out of the middle east in a hurry. Why would our government want to pay for roads, hospital, lights, schools in Iraq when they don't even finish the job here?

If you broke it, you own it - remember? Military contractors have made hundreds of billions and anyone who questions this is a "traitor" (such as Harold Reid).

The petroleum industry - there are gas lines in Iraq because Halliburton controls the pumping of the oil.

Violence in Iraq - an excuse to "stay the course" - but no, he didn't say that. Now it's "surge" and then continue the "surge." No timetable because it's the antithesis of a permanent military presence in the middle east.

So .. we are busy in Iraq so what happens at home? Deregulation of industry while we are distracted. Bye bye Clean Air, Bye bye food inspections, bye bye social security. "Pension reform," they call it. Medicare Plan D - a joke. No Child Left Behind - a joke. The middle class shrinks and top incomes are up almost 500%!

Wait til we go into Iran - what a distraction that will be in the waning days of the lame duck! GOP has wanted since the 1930s to decimate federally-funded "safety nets" for the poor. All they have to say is that it's harmful to business.

Under Clinton we had a budget surplus and he made a commitment to save social security. Under these guys, we use the Grover Norquist drown-the-government model. By running up a couple of trillion of dollars in war debt, they can claim that we DON'T HAVE THE MONEY to help the young, the old, the vulnerable, the poor. & we can't tax the rich or IT WILL HURT BUSINESS.

The Executive Branch has more power than ever (speaking of the Constitution, what's happened to it?) - the Patriot Act is reauthorized, with more power for the FBI and Justice Dept over private citizens snuck in. Then on top of it comes the "signing statement" - (in so many words - "I don't have to just stick to the Patriot Act - I can do even more! Screw FISA. I have war powers! I am the decider when it comes to torture."

Most people are against the war and believe it has gone wrong. The President is in contempt of Congress. We are told troops are protecting our freedom. I think we have to protect it ourselves.

Posted by: sparrow at April 23, 2007 08:42 PM

Fatigue my ass, I'm sick to death of all of them.

Bushit

Breaking: US Base Attacked, 9 Soldiers Dead
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/23/195652/520

The surge is working .. right

Dozens Killed, Hurt in Iraq Attacks
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042307R.shtml
Suicide bombers attacked five locations in Iraq on Monday, killing 46 people and wounding more than 100, officials said, as the US ambassador stopped short of saying construction on a controversial wall in Baghdad would be halted.

Question: What do the panelists think of the commercialization of torture on TV shows like 24 and 48 Hours.

John Kelly: At least it's honest! It's actually accurate.

Bill Barbieri: Just got back from a visual ethics conference in Ohio--there is something seductive about images.

Brent Mickum: It's just a business and people seem to accept that. Homeland Security show had the equipment used at GITMO for sale.

Posted by: monkey at April 23, 2007 08:51 PM

Well, after such a successful GWB pResidency and two stolen elections, people finally get it!

Loyalty to Bushies pays well but then again, crime pays well in the Mafia family too.

On that note, I'm heading out. Still got people in the irc though.

** btw, new thread **

I believe the government should stay out of our bedrooms but regulate our chocolate.

Posted by: not my president at April 23, 2007 07:51 PM

They should only be allowed to regulate it to ensure that pure products are used in making it -- without chemicals. They should not be allowed to change the ingredients to replace the purity with crap.