And on a personal note...

I'm so sad to hear about the market. The Russian tea cookies I bought there were so good. It was a remarkable place and I can remember thinking as I left, how much I wished there were something like that in my neighborhood.

So sad.

Sorry to hear that - wow!!! So many memories.

I had never heard of the market, but this certainly is NOT a good news.

I hope the merchants will have a way to recover.

Karen,

I am saddened by the loss of the beautiful, historical Eastern Market as well. A few years ago, I walked with Larry and Richard to join you, Fe, and Vic at the Eastern Market for brunch.

I wandered around the stalls both inside and outside the building. I actually got a quicky tour of the inside while all of you were across the street at the restaurant. But I can remember the smells and the feel inside that building.

Of course it smelled like a market, (not so yummy to me), but the sense of community and sharing was practically tangible. I remember wondering about their electrical system that day as I wandered around inside the market.

Outside of the market, where the crafters were was unharmed by the fire. But I still have the gifts and crafts that I bought for my kids that day. It makes it seem more special to have those things now.

P.S. Do you know if you took Nolie to the market too?

The French Market in a certain Southern river delta city is one of those magical places that Karen was talking about and that Bonny Wolf mourned the loss of in her NPR story. No matter how touristerized it became in the last couple or three decades, its beating heart never stopped being all about the locals.

And if I close my eyes I can still smell it and taste it and hear the noises of the French Market in the very early hours, before the tourists rose for the day and started cluttering up the place with their banalities and inanities...

Posted by: Otter at May 1, 2007 11:40 AM

That's what I liked about the markets...the local flavor. In a way, it reminds me of them trying to replicate the small communities within the bigger city at large.

In the big city where I grew up, we had malls, parks, grocery stores. But there was nothing that replicates the feel you get inside a place like the Eastern Market.

In the previous small town where my family use to live, there's nothing at all like a big or little town. No sense of community, unless you or your family has lived there for the last 150 years!

But in the current small town where I am now, it's so much more comfy, like the Eastern Market. But we don't have a Eastern Market per se. What we have is a Dairy Queen that sits along side the river. After a game or during a hot summer day, that's where the community gathers. And we have a gazebo in the middle of town where they do concerts and have other events. Our little town draws people for the "Famous Chicken Broil" (which I've never ever been to!), River-Raison Folk Art Festival, and the 4th of July fire works.

Summer time is a great time to rally around the community here. And oddly enough, we do more than most burbs do and as a result, the burbs come to our neck of the woods for our community activities.

Posted by: sparrow at May 1, 2007 11:39 AM

I want to add that I remember the people there were so friendly and inviting. The employees shared the history with me. And I felt ever bit as touched by it as the people in the NPR article described it.

Man...that was a special place!

It still is, sparrow. And it will rise from the ashes, just you wait.

Eastern Market is the soul of Capitol Hill. As it happens, I am in California for the week, feeling doubly bereft that I cannot walk over and somehow comfort my old friend, the building, and all of the friends within and without the building.

My very first thought, with no conscious intervention whatsoever, is when can we start the rebuilding? In a quick look around the net this morning, I see that the same thought is already running wild. Hello Mayor Fenty! Time to demonstrate a little leadership. The neighbors and lovers of the Market have spent many decades resisting attempts to rennovate (i.e. destroy) Eastern Market. Mayor Fenty needs to act quickly to give us back the Market we love, and not allow years of useless meetings.

Not my Eastern Market!!!!

:-(

The great shea butter!!! The wonderful ladies who sold the lightswitch plates!!! NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Karen:

All of us who have visited you and Dick in DC know EXACTLY how you feel. Its such a loss. My heart goes out to Capitol Hill residents, and a note for you all to persist and re-build.

On another note, another significant fire, only this time, it was a freeway--occurred two miles from me in Berkeley. The 580 West has collapsed.

Are we in a strange time or what?

markets..Pike Market, Seattle..we once saved it from gentrification & destruction by destructive yuppie forces due to a collective outcry by the town! & would do it again! Our small markets, traditional markets & outdoor farmers' markets are a national treasure & all too uncommon. We need to save the ones we have & create more! Rebuild!!

Fe
I was hearing about that as I drove in today and thinking of you .. sounded like that will take a long time to rebuild!

Richard and Karen,

Thank you for taking me to the Eastern Market on that gorgeous spring day. (I forgot to say that.)

Posted by: Fe at May 1, 2007 12:22 PM

Fe,

My bro (a trucker) says the trucker's company (insurance company) will be paying billions of dollars for the repair. It's one of those mixed blessings--seriously! Thank God nobody was hurt! (Not even the trucker who caused the accident.) And it's horrible that traffic will be delayed for a really long time. But if one must see the sunny-side of things, at least rebuilding the bridge will employ many Californians for a number of years.

But if one must see the sunny-side of things, at least rebuilding the bridge will employ many Californians for a number of years.

Posted by: sparrow at May 1, 2007 12:28 PM

Good point, sparrow. :)

It's horrible that this happened in one of the most important choke-points in the Bay Area though... More reason to ride BART or use other means of commuting. (Driving never adds up in the Bay Area.)

As an aside, from those of you who are cynical about politicians both old & new, and about the energy & commitment of the those who are coming along to fill us old farts' shoes, you might want to check this new blog entry out:

http://blog.johnkerry.com/2007/05/set_a_deadline.html

Yeah, looking at those pix of the freeway overpass that faw down go boom! in the eastern Bayrea made my innards curdle, too -- I took that exact same exit heading over towards Grand Avenue in Joakland every morning for years. Yikes.

These East Bay people sure do seem to keep on having some really bad freeway karma. What's up with that, ya reckon?

But if one must see the sunny-side of things, at least rebuilding the bridge will employ many Californians for a number of years.

Posted by: sparrow at May 1, 2007 12:28 PM

Business Week
COVER STORY
By Emily Thornton
MAY 7, 2007

Roads To Riches
Why investors are clamoring to take over America's highways, bridges, and airports—and why the public should be nervous.

http://tinyurl.com/3a5sbj

Posted by: monkey at May 1, 2007 01:01 PM

I would feel better about it if I were the investor! ;)

I would feel better about a *lot* of things if I were the investor.

NMP, sparrow:

I would the insurance company will provide for the cost of the rebuild. We're all hoping, for the economy's sake, that it will be sooner rather than later to put it back up, given we had the Northridge earthquake model (five months to replace the collapsed freeway) to emulate. This time could be different, there's a steel shortage in the region. We're going to have to wait, particularly now that construction season is in very high gear.

otter:

Didn't you ever have the feeling, taking that 880 to 80E/580W ramp that you were riding an amusement park ride? My acrophobia antenna are always up when I take that route to go home to Berkeley from Santa Cruz. Hope the fix will be more secure, though I think folks need to look at the design overall of the maze. Its a bit of a tangle, and obviously, a precarious set of circumstances can lead to disaster. Thankfully, it happened on an early morning Sunday instead of a commute hour Monday.

Carma.

Posted by: Fe at May 1, 2007 01:24 PM

A steel shortage?

Um...golly isn't steel one of the infrastructure products that's been outsourced?

Looks to me like a good time for American Steel Industry to make a come-back!

News Corp., the giant media company controlled by Rupert Murdoch, has made an unsolicited $5 billion, $60-a-share all cash offer for Dow Jones, the publisher of The Wall Street Journal.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18417410/

Posted by: monkey at May 1, 2007 01:39 PM

Nooooooooooooooooooooo

Imagine the increased level of insider trading and such when they take over!

Wall Street Journal is already so unbelievably conservative. I thought Dow Jones was just an industrial average of a small number of companies. ??? What gives.

I had read awhile back that some of our country's toll roads and bridges have been leased by countries and local governments need the money. Crazy system.

To Woz, or anyone else interested...

I just put a very long post at the end of the last thread.

It is the sory of how this all started as I remember it.

It begins with Alines last day.

I hope it is not to much of a ramble, but it should answer some of the confusion to how it began for us.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2007/04/it_was_30_years.html

Greg Mitchell of Editor&Publisher takes a poke at the NY Times coverage of Mission Accomplished 4 years ago... simply by listing excerpts of the articles published in the Times about the event.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003578624

Quite an indictment.

Check out this oped in The Hill about the Sunlight Foundation's Open House Project to make Capitol Hill accessible and transparent to bloggers and online journalists.

http://thehill.com/op-eds/give-bloggers-capitol-access-2007-04-30.html

hat/tip to Josh at TPM

Posted by: Christy at May 1, 2007 02:21 PM

TY, Christy.

crazy lunch news check - Wolfowitz should resign, and Ohlmert's ratings are in the toilet. Bush is having to compromize with the EU on his global warming position. Courtney Love is selling her "fat" clothes on eBay and Kurt's pajamas on AOL Music & TopShop if thronged by those wanting the new Kate Moss mass market line. Eating pistachios lowers your cholesterol but Chinese food could have melamine instead of protein. Well, back to work.

Blair quitting?

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/tonyblair/story/0,,2069539,00.html

setting a good example - 10 years ago he had a landslide

...bad freeway karma. What's up with that, ya reckon?
Posted by: Otter at May 1, 2007 12:58 PM

Gaia keeps nudging humans away from the coast... San Andreas Fault, and all that. If she can't move the people, she moves the things they build there, ever so slightly, one inch, one foot, a little bit at a time, making the human structures unstable.

I think She is trying to warn us (save us, actually). We've already harmed Her flora and fauna and oceans and air, and by the numbers of species going extinct and glaciers melting, etc., some of the damage can't be undone. How much more can She take without exploding or imploding, in a desperate attempt to move away from those who are harming Her...?

Gaia is warning and warning and warning us to save ourselves. Are we intelligent enough to listen...?

CNN: The president will explain his decision to veto the legislation on network television at 6:10 pm.

If you can stomach, tune in to "Grammar Takes a Holiday"

New Rassmussen poll puts Obama ahead of Hillary, 32%-30%.

Posted by Karen at May 1, 2007 07:19 AM

I'm so sorry to read about the devastating loss of the market... and empathize with your personal loss of community. May that loss be only temporary and rebuilding successful....

One of the great treats of summer/fall locally is buying fresh produce from roadside stands (for those who don't grow their own veggies and some fruits like apples or strawberries), or even flowers and seedlings from others in spring. Some farmers come into town and set up stands in parking lots (with permission), others sell produce straight from their farms, and yet others have signs up at the driveway of their farms for people to come pick their own and they are only charged a nominal fee for the produce itself (labor costs are free when one picks the fruits and veggies themselves, and there's always a few who have a pumpkin patch for Halloween or for those who like making pumpkin pie from scratch, and everyone goes and picks their own).

Still, I think the loss to your local community has to be devastating on many levels, so I hope the rebuilding is accomplished in record time.

Posted by: monkey at May 1, 2007 04:23 PM

Thanks for the heads up. I plan to be busy at that time. I don't know with what, yet, but I plan on being busy.

I am not masochistic enough to harm my eardrums with that voice lying (again!). It's just too painful.

Besides which, we all know what he's going to say, and it's going to be Clinton's fault and/or Dems' fault for him "having" to veto sensible legislation. He is just going to be his usual whining spoiled-brat self.... The fact that he's the one doing the veto that will cut off funds is just not going to be his fault.

Whatever.

Ah, NonnyO, if only I had that option. But I write about politics. It's what I do. So I have to actually pay attention to even the most self-serving bullspin like Bush pontificating about how he's always right and the Democrats are always wrong. What can I say, it's an occupational hazard.

Posted by: Rick Albertson at May 1, 2007 05:23 PM

Don't follow it with a chaser or you end up with his issues.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/01/ray-mcgovern-cheney-had-niger-documents-farmed-out/
Ray McGovern: Cheney Had Niger Documents “Farmed Out”

Ah, what would the Puppet do without the Puppet-master...? Cheney impeachment anyone???

Posted by: Rick Albertson at May 1, 2007 05:23 PM

You have my sympathies.

I have an extraordinarily low threshold of boredom. I just can't bear the repetition of the same lies over and over, on top of that whiny voice and bad grammar....

If W is on when I drive home, I will change from NPR to Mexican radio. Happy May 1 to the Workers of the World in all the other parts of the world and good luck with Mexican amnesty. We have our own Labor Day in September, just like we don't use the metric system and we have triple digit deficit & interest on the debt which is 2nd biggest item in our budget. We like to be different. Which would be worse? Socialism or Rule-by-Halliburton? Depends on your stock portfolio, probably.

'Nuff said:

http://tinyurl.com/37fqyo

Karen, thank you so much for taking me to the market while it still existed! What a great oasis of community amidst the desert of transience we call DC.

(And I was excited to find, just a couple weeks back, in the downtown of a very rich and conservative Southern California locale, a "Market Night" full of thriving, well, Californianess: stalls of fruits and vegetables picked straight from the field (too ripe for grocery processing), buckets of uncut flowers, ethnic food of the rarer varieties, high school kids clad in black (with white painted faces) doing mime dances to blaring Christian worship music, the "pipe" sellers, the juicers, the "heaven or hell in 5 minutes" test, the roasted corn and churros, the wannabe pop stars and rock bands performing on competing street corners, the tie-dye skirts, the odd collections being hawked (e-Bay style) for pennies on the dollar...and most of all, the motley crew, complete with barking dogs hidden in overlarge purses, people of every color, shape, size, and age, eagerly haggling, greeting, laughing, hugging, dancing, clapping, and, well, communing...it restored my faith in a lot of things.)

Read it and weep (and I do mean weep):

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003578624

Posted by: not the president at May 1, 2007 06:09 PM

The Canadians share our Labor/Labour Day. We're not completely alone.

On the subject of immigrant amnesty, I'd be more sympathetic if the third-world immigrants we take in, legally and otherwise, weren't such tools of the social conservatives.

We ought to be more like Canada - take in all the immigrants, but stand firm on basic dignity and human rights (i.e. legalized pot in Vancouver, and gay marriage).

And on the subject of Canada...

If we intervened in foreign politics less, like Canada, then those foreigners will have less incentive to influence our politics in their favor. There is a reason why the Unification Church/Koreagate targeted the US, and not Canada, UK, or any other Korean War participant country.

Ah, what would the Puppet do without the Puppet-master...? Cheney impeachment anyone???

Posted by: NonnyO at May 1, 2007 06:03 PM

Dick Vader still thinks Saddam masterminded 9/11.

The only place he belongs is a mental ward. That would be a great payback for all the kind-hearted progressives the W regime locked away in mental hospitals across the nation.

By Elisabeth Bumiller

WASHINGTON, May 1 -- President Bush's made-for-television address tonight on the carrier Abraham Lincoln was a powerful, Reaganesque finale to a six-week war. But beneath the golden images of a president steaming home with his troops toward the California coast lay the cold political and military realities that drove Mr. Bush's advisers to create the moment.

@@@@@@@@@

Bumiller and Judith Miller are close buds, I bet.

BTW:

I think I am in luv with Nancy Pelosi. Besides being attractive, she has a good speaking voice; clear, strong and deliberate. Today after signing the Supplemental she gave Dubya one last warning/plea - to sign the legislation... Pelosi, IMHO, is outshining Hillary in both style and substance...

IMHO, outshining Hillary in both style and substance...

Posted by: Ralpheh at May 1, 2007 07:16 PM

... not exactly a stretch, IMHO

Exactly one turd.... again...

CNN QuickVote

Was President Bush right to veto a war-spending bill that contained a deadline for the pullout of U.S. troops from Iraq?

Yes 33%

No 67%

Irc is open for chat. Bring your own bottle and if you're watching King George take away troop funding, bring your own barf bucket.

IMHO, outshining Hillary in both style and substance...

Posted by: Ralpheh at May 1, 2007 07:16 PM

... not exactly a stretch, IMHO

Posted by: monkey at May 1, 2007 07:25 PM

I would like to see Cheney impeached and Pelosi installed as VP. Then I'd like to see Bush impeached.

President Pelosi. How's that ring to you?

Hillary won't go away -

New Rassmussen poll puts Obama ahead of Hillary, 32%-30%.

Posted by: Cyrano at May 1, 2007 04:32 PM

Even Obama is having trouble knocking her down

Ouch, Damn and hellfire! No more catfish and grits breakfasts....

The market was wonderful and I'm sad.

President Pelosi. How's that ring to you?
Posted by: sparrow at May 1, 2007 07:33 PM

Going once... Going twice.... Sold~!

ABBC.... (Anybody But Bush-Cheney!)

More read-it-and-weep things....

Why There Was No Exit Plan
By Lewis Seiler, Dan Hamburg
For all the talk about timetables and benchmarks, one might think that the United States will end the military occupation of Iraq within the lifetimes of the readers of this opinion editorial. Think again.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17628.htm

Millions Will Die
By George Monbiot
Rich nations seeking to cut climate change have this in common: they lie. You won't find this statement in the draft of the new report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which was leaked to the Guardian last week. But as soon as you understand the numbers, the words form before your eyes. The governments making genuine efforts to tackle global warming are using figures they know to be false.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17632.htm

In case you missed it
The War Party
Video
Panorama investigates the "neo-conservatives", the small and unelected group of right-wingers, who critics claim have hijacked the White House. They brought us war against Iraq - what do the hawks in Washington have in store for us now?
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8581.htm
The War Party was broadcast on Sunday, 18 May 2003 at 22:15 BST on BBC One.

Even Obama is having trouble knocking her down

Posted by: Ralpheh at May 1, 2007 07:56 PM

wrong - that's good, this early in the game

Edwards is in town today (Seattle) - courting AFL/CIO

Amnesty rally downtown as well

It is too early in the game .. someone could come from behind .. a dark horse. New people could even announce from both parties.

That keeps it exciting.

Ally

Dick Vader still thinks Saddam masterminded 9/11?

-- It can't be proven. There is the possibility that it is completely propaganda and he has never believed it. He may know who actually master-minded 9/11 and then have used Saddam as a scapegoat. With Halliburton in the mix, I'm sure he has few illusions but huge motives.

Ralpheh

What I meant about Obama and H Clinton is that if they're that close this early in the game, he is doing a good job. It will take more time to knock her (or anyone) out. It is too early. She has long-time name recognition and he is still building it. Sad to say, there are still people who would not be able to tell us who any of these people are. Some of them don't vote, some do, which is hard to imagine but true.

I have met people with Master's degrees who had never heard of Condi Rice, let alone being able to name any job she has held, some of whom actually supported the war out of blind faith!!
Shocking, I know ..

Ally
I didn't write that clearly. I didn't mean it can't be proven Saddam master-minded 9/11, which he almost certainly didn't. I meant that it can't be proven that Cheney actually believes that, and it not just creating expedient propaganda for unquestioning masses, to support oil wealth.

President Pelosi. How's that ring to you?

Posted by: sparrow at May 1, 2007 07:33 PM

@@@@@@

Kuhl!!!!

Madame President!

I think the guys in the House of Reps. are still getting used to saying Madame Speaker... Pelosi has earned it (unlike Hillary). Or maybe just to break the barrier the Dems should put her on as Vice President (if she would take it), but she has much more power as Speaker of the House... and 3 rd in line etc...

And it could make the day better just by walking past it...

Silent and comforting, like our great mother bird. Feeding us and watching us grow.

She may be gone in touch, but there's four other senses I'll never be able to forget about.

The way it smelled. I didn't like it at first, but it grew on me. In a couple of months, just walking through the doors could make me hungry.

The way it looked, with all the hustle and bustle. But there was a method to the madness. A rhythm.

The way it sounded. People shouting at each other across the aisle, but there was never any hostility or anger in the market. Never.

And the tastes. Oh god, the tastes. What can even be said about the tastes? I don't think I knew how to taste before the market.

And that high-five? That was all skill. I swear.

Ralpheh

What I meant about Obama and H Clinton is that if they're that close this early in the game, he is doing a good job. It will take more time to knock her (or anyone) out. It is too early. She has long-time name recognition and he is still building it. Sad to say, there are still people who would not be able to tell us who any of these people are. Some of them don't vote, some do, which is hard to imagine but true.

@@@@@

You are very right, Obama is doing very well at this stage - Hillary's people must be in shock LOLOLOL. Who is this uppity Obama, anyway??? When I was still with AOL News, I swear they put HIllary picture up three or four times a week with "Who do you like for 2008?"

In another bad sign for HIllary, the good old union boys in the Michigan Democratic party look like they are going with John Edwards - (not too liberal, jobs jobs and more jobs etc..)

BUST THE VETO :

BTW- I WOULD CALL THE WHITE HOUSE - 202-456-1111 AND GIVE THEM HELL TOMORROW MORNING

Today President Bush vetoed the $124 billion Iraq war funding bill, because it included a timid troop withdrawal plan.

Unfortunately, the Democrats in Congress now seem to think that they must compromise with the arrogant, incompetent administration that led us into war, rather than stand up for us, our troops and the Iraqis.

If we do not create a national outcry right now, Congress will capitulate and simply give Bush the money he wants to continue the war.

Let's make some noise!
Don't get up from your computer until you've sent a letter to the editor of your local paper -- you can do so here, with just a few clicks.

Call local radio talk shows, and jam the Capitol Hill switchboard (202-224-3121) with calls to your senators and representatives. Click here for talking points.

Download and deliver ";The People's Emergency Funding Bill," by fax or in person, to your representative's and senators' local and Washington DC offices. (Click here to find their office addresses and fax numbers.)

Find out if there is an activity already planned near you, and then call everyone you know and urge them to join you there. Be sure to bring a sign with a clear message -- e.g, Congress: Stand Up to Bush! More actions are listed on MoveOn.org.

If you can't find a local protest, you can put one together quickly, with even just a friend or two. Here are a few ideas:

Street Actions: vigils, rallies, cell-phone-a-thons, street theater;
Banner Drop: Make big banners, and hang them from highway overpasses, buildings or other prominent places;
Actions Inside and/or Outside Congressional Offices: Read letters from military families, hold a vigil, organize a picket, or do street theater.
Find more details about organizing these kinds of actions and more here. If you do organize an action, be sure to post it on our events calendar so others can find it.
While it is critical to raise our voices now, we should not be surprised if Congress ends up giving the president the money he wants without any ties to specific troop withdrawal plans, even weak ones. But our outcry now will set the stage and build pressure for the next struggle: In the coming days Congress will begin to debate the Defense budget. This will be another key opportunity for Congress to use its power to end the war and bring all the troops home, now! We'll do our best to keep you posted on these and other developments.

Yours, for peace and justice,

Leslie Cagan
National Coordinator, UFPJ

Ralpheh
I have not made a choice - don't know enough about their records either & am not convinced about what has been done to ensure voting integrity & to put the skids on minority & others being disenfranchised on purpose. No more Katharine Harris or Kenneth Blackwell shenanigans. We had two bloodless coups, regardless of what either campaign did or didn't do right or what wasn't perfect about either candidate (or our party). Bush should not be sitting in that White House.

Nor should he be standing either.

Sitting Bull

I have modified the lyrics to "Out of Touch" so hope Hall & Oates don't sue me because I'm going around singing this ..

Shake him up .. all that he knows
Mounting the bodies up as he goes
Waking up to fantasy
The lights all around aren't the colors he used to see
Father bad not bad as the son
His head is broken and it's not any fun
We're so alone
And life really matters to me
Take a look around

He's out of touch
We're out of time
He's going out of his head & spinning round

Reaching out for something to hold
Looking for a planet where the climate stays cold
Manic moves and drowsy dreams
Or living on the right where it's real extreme
Smoking guns hot to the touch
Would cool down if we didn't use them so much
We're so alone
And life really matters to me
Too much

He's out of touch
We're out of time
He's going out of his head and spinning round

Monkey
Click on my name for illustration (bonus: Bliar)

Hey, monkey!! This is for you in particular!

http://www.booksandbooks.com/NASApp/store/IndexJsp

(And BTW, did you ever get to catch Big Leg Emma this past weekend while they were gigging in your neck of the woods?)

About to pass out after a long day, Thanks to everyone who posted about the Market. I think of it as *my* market, but from the news sites and this thread I can tell others feel the way I do about it.

I had to tell Larry about the fire tonight and that was hard, but I see he posted above at 9:23. It's difficult for kids to deal with these changes anyway, but the market was a part of the fabric of his life from age 7 on. It's nice to see him write about it though--and healthy I think.

Too exhausted to write more--manana!

Too exhausted to write more--manana!

Posted by: karen at May 1, 2007 10:55 PM

---------------

Manana-na
Doo-doo, doo-doo-doo
Manana-na
Doo-doo, doo-doo-doo
(etc.)

From: Mark Crispin Miller (who wrote the book on 2004 theft)

I'm starting a new sort of blog, on YouTube.

Please check it out; I think you'll find it interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=newsfromunderground

Hey Woz,

In case you missed it, I left a really long post for you here at th end of the last thread.

http://www.democracycellproject.net/blog/archives/2007/04/it_was_30_years.html

And MD,

Sorry it took me so long to respond, but writing that knocked me out for a while. So far the only upside to pnuemonia is the wieght loss.

Md, hpnestly I feel I should be thanking you. I'm not kidding in the slightest. For years no on believed us, for years it has been ignored.

It is hard to understand the level of fear we live with, nd just learned to live with. I m not just talking about my family, I am talkig about an entire society of people understand that there is no such thing as justice in Louisiana.

I was a kid, and I KNEW never to trust the police. Everybody KNEW, but who do you call? They still know. We live with it and pray to God our daughters make it home.

'The Dead Zone'... 'The Burmuda Triangle fo females'.... My God, I mean MY GOD!

I makes me just want to scream and kick the sh*t out of something. Families have been shattered, my family is one of many many families.

We all just...live with it.

And then, maybe because God said it is tme, suddenly I can reach out, and people lke all of you see it, you understand the implications of it, you make it a point to pay attention, and it is like a miracle.

After all this time, we are no longer alone. We are so grateful for that.

I know from the beginning here, even when yall thought it was just some crazy story I was telling, it gave me hope you atleast cared enough to try to poke holes in it. I actually enjoyed it as an excersise to make me rethink things I had not thought of yet.

The day I found out about Brownes onfession, after the slap of it wore off, I knew I ould come back with it, and you would see.

All of you did. It was such a relief.

I do not mean to focus so much on Aline, when there are so many others. When Alines case gets me down, I always remember the others and my mind goes though it again. They haunt me.

Louisiana is perhaps the most haunted place in the nation.

I am sincerely grateful for everyone that has stopped even for a moment to pay attention to what is happening here.

They tried to erase people like Faye Aline Self.

But as long as their names are spoken, then they live on. I honestly believe that.

A lot of things about Louisiana need to be erased. But not our daughters.

The Dead Zone. Holy crap, that is just..... I really have no words at all to describe it.

And DW, Thank you too.

The hug is very much returned.

NOW they worry about wiretaps...?!? NOW they FINALLY start to ask questions?!? Where were these Congress Critters when they originally approved legislation for wiretaps and Georgie and Dickie promptly assumed they could dictatorially claim "executive privilege" for illegal wiretaps...?!? What's wrong with this picture? Why is this issue coming up again and why are they are once again asking for more power to do more wiretaps....? This stinks to high heaven.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070502/ap_on_go_co/domestic_spying

Senators wary of Bush's wiretap proposal

Citing FBI abuses and the attorney general's troubles, senators peppered top Justice and intelligence officials Tuesday with skeptical questions about their proposal to revise the rules for spying on Americans.

Senate Intelligence Committee members said the Bush administration must provide more information about its earlier domestic spying before it can hope to gain additional powers for the future.

"Is the administration's proposal necessary, or does it take a step further down a path that we will regret as a nation?" asked Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-V.Wa., as he convened a rare public hearing of the Senate Intelligence Committee he chairs.

For two hours, National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell, National Security Agency Director Lt. Gen. Keith Alexander, Assistant Attorney General Kenneth Wainstein and their lawyers tried to parry increasingly dubious and hostile questions. They deferred many answers to a committee session closed to the public.

With little apparent success, they portrayed the administration bill as merely an adjustment to technological changes wrought by cell phones, e-mail and the Internet since the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act was enacted in the 1970s. Under current rules, McConnell said, "We're actually missing a significant portion of what we should be getting."

But Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (news, bio, voting record), D-R.I., responded, "We look through the lens of the past to judge how much we can trust you." Like other senators, he said that trust was undermined by recent disclosure that the FBI had abused so-called National Security Letters to obtain information about Americans.
~~~~~
Even though the administration insists the warrantless wiretapping was legal under the president's constitutional powers, the administration bill contains a provision blocking lawsuits against telephone companies that cooperated. The administration has won most of the court battles so far over that spying, but one judge declared it illegal.

"Congress is being asked to enact legislation that brings to an end lawsuits that allege violations of the rights of Americans," Rockefeller said. "We cannot legislate in the blind."

The senators were not calmed by reassurances from the witnesses that the domestic wiretapping is still operating under the secret court's supervision.

"There is nothing in this bill that confines the president to work within" the surveillance act in the future, said Sen. Diane Feinstein, D-Calif. The same issue was raised by Sens. Ron Wyden (news, bio, voting record), D-Ore., Russell Feingold, D-Wis., and Bill Nelson (news, bio, voting record), D-Fla.

McConnell said the administration wants to work under the surveillance law now, but acknowledged "that does not mean the president would not use ... (constitutional powers) in a crisis."

"We want to go after the bad guys," Nelson said, "but we want to prevent the creation of a dictator who takes the law in his own hands." He said some senators and others legitimately believed Bush broke the law.

Earlier in the day, the Administrative Office of U.S. Courts reported that state prosecutors obtained a record number of criminal wiretap warrants last year to listen to more than 3 million phone conversations, mostly in drug cases. Federal prosecutors got only a third as many of these wiretaps, all in cases unrelated to terrorism.

{More on link.}

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/solar/

I recently saw this Nova show regarding solar (and other) energy. I found it enlightening and have since wondered why we can't do more to have energy like the huge solar panels that superheat water and the only waste is steam (water). It was mentioned that it is impractical for some areas, but I don't see why it can't be used in areas where it would be practical. There are several other kinds of energy mentioned, too, both in the US and in other countries, but with more of these kinds of alternative energy sources, we could dramatically cut any reliance on oil and/or gas (foreign or domestic).

As I see it, it just takes getting the greedy corporations out of the picture to accomplish any of this. I think the oil corporations are going to try to stop any research and development into alternative sources of energy so they can get all the oil money they can while they can, before there is no more oil to be had.

Too bad we can't harness the hot air from the windbags in corporations and the windbags in the administration and in Congress. All they ever do is talk about the problems; they rarely DO anything (unless Georgie and Dickie play the spoiled brat or bandwagon patriotism cards and rush bad legislation through, all of which has proved to be to our detriment). Between all the lying windbags, there's enough wind power to keep Las Vegas lit up for at least a year....

The Newshour had the next of their features on Global Warming last night.

This one focused on the future of coal. To make a long story short, while the advocate for the coal industry was trying to the sell the idea that shunting CO2 emissions underground is a feasible solution, for both the US and countries like China, the critic of that strategy mentioned that one of the richest entrepreneurs in China today is a man developing solar panels.

Solar Power could offer the ultimate bank shot - solving much of our need for clean, renewable energy while also providing a technology that sun-rich but largely impoverished, undeveloped Central American nations could use to generate the funds to feed and take care of their own people.

May 2, 2007
Study of N.B.A. Sees Racial Bias in Calling Fouls
By ALAN SCHWARZ
An academic study of the National Basketball Association, whose playoffs continue tonight, suggests that a racial bias found in other parts of American society has existed on the basketball court as well.

A coming paper by a University of Pennsylvania professor and a Cornell University graduate student says that, during the 13 seasons from 1991 through 2004, white referees called fouls at a greater rate against black players than against white players.

Justin Wolfers, an assistant professor of business and public policy at the Wharton School, and Joseph Price, a Cornell graduate student in economics, found a corresponding bias in which black officials called fouls more frequently against white players, though that tendency was not as strong. They went on to claim that the different rates at which fouls are called “is large enough that the probability of a team winning is noticeably affected by the racial composition of the refereeing crew assigned to the game.”

N.B.A. Commissioner David Stern said in a telephone interview that the league saw a draft copy of the paper last year, and was moved to do its own study this March using its own database of foul calls, which specifies which official called which foul.

“We think our cut at the data is more powerful, more robust, and demonstrates that there is no bias,” Mr. Stern said.

Three independent experts asked by The Times to examine the Wolfers-Price paper and materials released by the N.B.A. said they considered the Wolfers-Price argument far more sound. The N.B.A. denied a request for its underlying data, even with names of officials and players removed, because it feared that the league’s confidentiality agreement with referees could be violated if the identities were determined through box scores.

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/02/sports/basketball/02refs.html

Posted by: Matthew Carnicelli at May 2, 2007 05:06 AM

Yes, and no one anywhere is investing in solar energy to any large degree - or wind energy or any other kind of energy. And still the vast majority of Americans are buying and using huge gas guzzlers (in spite of high gas prices at the pump), not demanding higher mpg or smaller cars that don't need to move that huge weight down the road which uses even more gas, nor cutting down on their use of their vehicles for needless trips....

Solar energy has its drawbacks, of course, but during peak use, primarily during the day, it's excellent. There's one community in CA that uses it, and because there's currently no way of storing excess solar energy during the night, they have to switch to alternate power. Still, "normal' people sleep during the dark hours anyway, so not that much other energy is used at night, except by places such as hospitals and the like.

Like computers (which were enormously expensive when they first came on the market, and even with inflation, more expensive than today's much faster computers that have all the whiz-bang goodies), the price could come down if more were made and sold in a mass market.

I wasn't aware of the solar and wind power used in other countries except for a few blurbs on the internet and that one Nova show. Corn (ethanol) is the rage in this state and we apparently produce a lot of it (and making it produces carbon, so whatever "benefit" it has is nixed by the pollution produced while making ethanol). I firmly believe that oil corporations will stay mum on the subject of alternative energy sources and/or actively try to keep them off the market or stymie research and development of renewable energy sources... and Lamestream Media will do the bidding of the oil corporations and keep silent about it. To actually find out about or obtain the means to install solar or wind power, people will have to actively pursue their goal and find the manufacturers of the same, even if the price is currently almost out of the reach of most people (there's a rebate program for people who use solar energy in Massachusetts, according to the Nova show). There's a couple in Maine who are on their second solar-powered house (admittedly expensive to build), they sell excess energy produced during the day to their local power company, and the energy bills they have otherwise for non-solar energy used (for a huge house!) is something like less than ten dollars a month. Imagine!

In any case, as the war for oil plays out in Iraq (as the body count keeps rising and our reputation keeps falling internationally because of Bus$hCo war crimes), it will be interesting to see if anyone in this country wakes up to stark reality of the costs behind the costs of Bush's illegal war crimes, and how we're being hoodwinked into falling for their propaganda....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/whos-the-enemy_b_47377.html

Who's the Enemy?

Except:

...Here's how the sequence of events went: In 2000, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Kristol, and others decided that the US was the boss of the world, and was to be the boss of the world for at least a hundred years. Cheney made himself vice president and grafted his ambitions onto whatever Bush thought he was doing. Already in "Rebuilding America's Defenses," the PNACkers were planning to get rid of Saddam Hussein, but then after the Republicans cheated and bullied their way into the presidency (thank you, Jeb Bush), they disdained everything Clinton had learned about Al Qaeda and the Middle East and a potential terrorist attack on American soil. When that attack occurred, they instantly annexed it to their agenda, and used it as an excuse to begin a civil war in Iraq, get rid of Saddam, and take control of the oil (not, as Greg Palast says, to turn the spigot on but to turn it off, and raise prices and profits). Having begun the Iraq civil war, which has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths and injuries to Iraqis and Americans, not to mention the internal displacement of millions, the PNACkers have no interest in ending it (and don't know how, anyway).

Why is that? It is because they don't know who the enemy is, or rather, because they define the enemy as anyone who is opposed to American interests. Today the enemy is one set of Islamic fundamentalists, tomorrow it will be another set. Today, two sets of Islamicists are against us. Tomorrow, one set will be for us and the other set will have found a new ally, and be against us. But, in actual fact, how can any person or any group in the Middle East or Europe or China or Africa or South America define themselves as the PNACkers define them, solely in relation to American interests? People and groups have to define themselves in relation to their own interests. If, for example, they have a resource, such as oil, it is in their own interest to possess it and profit from it. Are they really required to think first about what the gas-guzzling, bomb-wielding Americans might want? Well, yes, if we can make them. But we aren't actually "in the right" if we make them do so by force or by threats...

More of story on link....

But this excerpt from one person in the Comment section was good:

Yes, it was "all about the oil." And, it still is. In the legislation drafted by the Democrats and vetoed by Bush, IT STILL IS.

The wicked-sharp blade is well-concealed in the notion of "revenue sharing." All that we're told is that America wants to insist that the various tribes must share the oil revenue. Sounds good, sounds positively altruistic! But it's totally misleading, because they are only talking about a mere 15% of the oil.

All of the oil that is undeveloped, all of the oil that is yet undiscovered, would go to American oil-companies, under all of these proposals, Republican or Democratic. It's a prize worth tens of trillions of dollars if not more.

That is what this government wants. THAT is why the Congress seems so "undecided." THAT is why impeachment was "off the table." Because when it comes right down to it, "it's all about the oil." No matter which party you care to follow.

By: sundialsvc4 on May 02, 2007 at 12:29am

(More on link.)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2007/05/02/notes050207.DTL&nl=fix
Mark Morford

The Hippies Were Right!
Green homes? Organic food? Nature is good? Time to give the ol' tie-dyers some respect

Excerpt:

Of course, true hippie values mean you're not really supposed to care about or attach to any of this, you don't give a damn for the hollow ego stroke of being right all along, for slapping the culture upside the head and saying, See? Do you see? It was never about the long hair and the folk music and Woodstock and taking so much acid you see Jesus and Shiva and Buddha tongue kissing in a hammock on the Dog Star, nimrods.

It was, always and forever, about connectedness. It was about how we are all in this together. It was about resisting the status quo and fighting tyrannical corporate/political power and it was about opening your consciousness and seeing new possibilities of how we can all live with something resembling actual respect for the planet, for alternative cultures, for each other. You know, all that typical hippie crap no one believes in anymore. Right?

DEMOCRATS WON'T STOP BUSH'S MERCENARY ARMIES IN IRAQ
By Jeremy Scahill, Tomdispatch.com
The Democrats' plan does almost nothing to address the second largest force in Iraq -- the estimated 126,000 private military "contractors" who will stay put there as long as Congress continues funding the war.
http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51276/

Excerpt:

"We got 126,000 contractors over there, some of them making more than the secretary of Defense," said House Defense Appropriations Subcommittee Chairman John Murtha. "How in the hell do you justify that?"

House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Rep. Henry Waxman estimates that $4 billion in taxpayer money has so far been spent in Iraq on these armed "security" companies like Blackwater -- with tens of billions more going to other war companies like KBR and Fluor for "logistical" support. Rep. Jan Schakowsky of the House Intelligence Committee believes that up to forty cents of every dollar spent on the occupation has gone to war contractors.

With such massive government payouts, there is little incentive for these companies to minimize their footprint in the region and every incentive to look for more opportunities to profit -- especially if, sooner or later, the "official" U.S. presence shrinks, giving the public a sense of withdrawal, of a winding down of the war.

Even if George W. Bush were to sign the legislation the Democrats have passed, their plan "allows the President the leeway to escalate the use of military security contractors directly on the battlefield," Erik Leaver of the Institute for Policy Studies points out. It would "allow the President to continue the war using a mercenary army."

It would "allow the President to continue the war using a mercenary army."

Posted by: NonnyO at May 2, 2007 07:02 AM

With OUR money!!!! F*** THAT!

IMPEACH NOW, COUP COUP CASHEW

I'm still really pissed off about last month's anti-choice SCOTUS decision.

It's not just what happened on April 18 when the über-cons that Bush appointed to the Supreme Court set a dangerous precedent by refusing to consider risks to a woman's health to be a valid medical concern anymore.

It's how and why it was allowed to happen at all.

As Katha Pollitt points out in an excellently angry rant in her 'The Nation' column, it really does matter which party you vote for. A Democratic-controlled Congress would never have passed the draconian Partial-Birth Abortion Act. A Democratic President would never have signed it. And a pre-Bush SCOTUS would never have upheld it. (In fact they already didn't, once. But that was before people who really should have known better let the Rethuglican camel's nose into the tent.):

---------------

So, NARAL Pro-Choice America -- or whatever your latest bland, pandering brand name is -- maybe, much too late, you'll rethink your policy of supporting pro-choice Republicans, who made the majorities that set the agenda that led us to this very bad place. And maybe, Tom Frank and assorted liberal know-it-alls of the op-ed page and blogosphere who've been telling us to calm down because Republicans are all bark and no bite on abortion, you'll take a look at the real world. Sometimes politicians deliver on their promises. As for all you pro-choicers with qualms out there -- who think abortion is icky and "late term" abortion especially so, although you couldn't say exactly when that even is, and who wonder why women are so careless and shouldn't emergency contraception have taken care of this already? -- maybe it's time to start defending the right you say you believe in, instead of cutting the ground out from under it.

----------------

Yeah. What she said.

More here: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20070514/pollitt

CNN: Was President Bush right to veto a war-spending bill that contained a deadline for the pullout of U.S. troops from Iraq?

Yes 36% 24175 votes

No 64% 43812 votes
Total: 67987 votes

Posted by: monkey at May 2, 2007 08:19 AM

Yes, with OUR money - and/or with loans our grandchildren and great-grandchildren and maybe even great-great-grandchildren will still be paying for with their tax money long after we're dead....

I am also not forgetting that US mercenaries make $30-35,000 dollars per month, and any foreign mercenaries make considerably less. Compare that to the monthly salaries of the US military personnel, and the inequality screams. (I don't know how much regular military or guard or reserve troops make, but I KNOW it's not thirty-something-thousand dollars per month.)

Still, with or without US military personnel (regular, guard, reserve), it seems Dumbya and Chinkster can still continue their illegal war with mercenaries only - as long as the dutiful Congress Critters vote to give them the money - and it looks like none will be courageous enough to withhold funds for mercenaries....

I want to know if Dems put that language into the bill, or co-sponsored that part of the bill if Cons put it there (or if they plan to fund mercenaries with the "compromise" bill they will submit in the future). I do remember that one or two Dem senators mentioned they gave DinWit more money than he asked for, and I think that was for "support" services... which means mercenaries!

A pox on all their houses...!

May every senator and representative who has not told us the truth when s/he knew it in the past and every senator and representative who has repeated the lies, even after we knew they were lies (I knew at the beginning; why didn't they?), and every senator or representative who still gives money to the top criminals for the continued commission of his war crime live to regret their actions.... I hope the money they are getting from oil corporations makes them writhe with an incurable allergic rash from guilt over the blood money they are pocketing....

Residency issue fuels U.S. attorneys controversy
One prosecutor gets an exemption, another gets fired

WASHINGTON - On Nov. 10, 2005, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales sent a letter to a federal judge in Montana, assuring him that the U.S. attorney there, William W. Mercer, was not violating federal law by spending most of his time in Washington as a senior Justice Department official.

That same day, Mercer had a GOP Senate staffer insert into a bill a provision that would change the rules so that federal prosecutors could live outside their districts to serve in other jobs, according to documents and interviews

Congress passed the provision several months later as part of the USA Patriot Act reauthorization bill, retroactively benefiting Mercer and a handful of other senior Justice officials who pull double duty as U.S. attorneys and headquarters officials. Justice officials say the measure was a necessary clarification to ensure that prosecutors could fill temporary postings in Washington, Iraq and elsewhere, and that it also applies to assistant U.S. attorneys.

But the episode, which received little notice at the time, provides another example in which Gonzales's statements appear to conflict with simultaneous actions by his aides in connection with U.S. attorney policies. Lawmakers investigating the department's handling of the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys have repeatedly accused Gonzales of being less than truthful about the roles played by himself and the White House.

The measure also provides the second example in which the Justice Department sought to use the renewal of the Patriot Act antiterrorism law to assert tighter control over U.S. attorneys. Another provision sought by the Justice Department allowed Gonzales to appoint U.S. attorneys indefinitely without Senate input. Since repealed, it was central to the uproar over the prosecutor dismissals.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18433091/

Posted by: Christy at May 2, 2007 01:14 AM

I told people I know about Aline's story when you first told us. Their initial reaction was, "Small world" -- not exactly the reaction I wanted or expected. The NYT article was somewhat of an eye-opener to them as to how many others like Aline & your family are affected by Browne's actions.

What the public needs to hear now is more about the police corruption in LA. Once Trooper Allen gets to the bottom of this (& I hope like hell he does), maybe you could get Chip Brown (the author of the NYT article) to write about that aspect of the story...

BTW, it's so good to see you here again. Be well.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070502/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq
Bush, Democrats to meet today on Iraq

Excerpt (more on link):

Lawmakers in both parties agree that a workable compromise is a huge challenge in the coming days or weeks. Because Democrats control the House and Senate, the pressure is mainly on them to craft a bill that Bush will sign, and thus avoid accusations that they failed to finance troops in a time of war.

{{{Translation: Bu$hSpeak double-speak for: Bush ain't gonna no-way-no-how "compromise" (he'll throw another temper tantrum and call Dems unpatriotic and say they "aren't supporting the troops" which means they are not funding corporate mercenaries either, which does not put money into the coffers of his or Dickie's corporate cronies) and Dems will have to go along with what he says to get along because too many Cons in Congress still blindly support DimWit and refuse to use their common sense and help stop Georgie's and Dickie's illegal war.... After all these years of double-speak, I'm still amazed that more sheeple haven't deconstructed what he says in his speeches to figure out the whiney brat tells some whopping lies on a daily basis. "A time of war" is code-speak for 'no one's ready to admit in a loud booming voice that Georgie's and Dickie's war in Iraq and his approval of torture and holding prisoners without charging them at Gitmo and elsewhere are WAR CRIMES under the Geneva Conventions and our Constitution, because then they'd have to admit those alone, even without the LIES, are grounds for IMPEACHMENT, and they aren't willing to IMPEACH the bam dastard, no matter what he does. The paper tigers are all running scared from the dumbest, most cowardly SOB who's ever crossed the threshold of the White House.}}}

Joan Baez Banned by Military

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/02/people.baez.ap/

Posted by: not my president at May 2, 2007 09:28 AM

Dying for our freedoms, eh?

Christy:
Thankyou for writing such a difficult memory. It's as though someone threw a gigantic boulder into the pool of your family life. The ripples are still swirling out through the years and touching more and more people.

It's hard when people die before they've had to face any kind of justice. I'm sure you feel cheated. The dinner with the State Police doesn't really surprise me since they are the ones who have taken this case from the corruption and nepotism of your local police force. At last you don't have to feel that no one believes you.

You have such clear memories of that day. At 9 years old it the realisation would have come on gradually. The way you told this story made me feel it through a 9 year old's eyes. I cannot imagine how it would have been for your grandparents when Aline didn't return. The absolute worst loss to me would be the disappearance or death of my child. For your mother to be made to doubt her own mind and memory is absolutely disgraceful. I can understand her grief and sorrow and rage at finding out the truth after so many years. I have 3 sisters. I'm so grateful that all are safe now.

But, life is often fragile. Mostly we go on from day to day and when such an enormous boulder hits the pool, we never truly get over it. The nightmare of not knowing becomes such a part of your psyche that a word, a deed, a facial expression triggers another memory. You become confused by the uncaring obstruction of those you should have been able to trust. The police.

Christy, I'm pleased that I've met you here, in writing, in passing. You are a good person. That came through to me from the first post that I read of yours months ago. I think that I know where your passion for universal truth and justice comes from. You serve your aunt well by telling this story. She deserves to be known. As does Wanda and all of the other victims. Thankyou.

Joan Baez Banned by Military

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/05/02/people.baez.ap/

Posted by: not my president at May 2, 2007 09:28 AM

It gets curiouser and curiouser.

Re the current threader:

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/04/30/PH2007043001964.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6613141.stm
Bush vetoes Iraq withdrawal bill

{{{Okay, I'm going to deconstruct some of the poop we were fed in this speech with certain paragraphs:}}}

Speaking in Washington after signing the veto, Mr Bush said setting a deadline for withdrawal would be "setting a date for failure" in Iraq.

{{{How is setting a deadline for withdrawal "setting a date for failure" in Iraq??? The FACT that the invasion (and occupation) of Iraq was a war crime to begin with means that this "mission" was a failure before it began!}}}

"I believe setting a deadline for a withdrawal would demoralise the Iraqi people, would encourage killers across the broader Middle East, and send a signal that America will not keep its commitments," he said in a televised speech.

{{{No, on the contrary, the Iraqi people would cheer if the US left its soil and throw a parade to escort the US troops out of their country, and then they would proceed to pick up the pieces of their broken country (if they're occupied and employed rebuilding their own country they won't have time to do any guerilla warfare tactics) - a country you ordered be invaded illegally, based on lies for their oil that you want to steal by dictating amendments into their constitution for US oil corporations to benefit from (no wonder they took a two month vacation to avoid voting for your dictated constitution!). Polls show the citizens of Iraq want the US OUT of Iraq! It's only your installed puppets in Iraq who say they want the US to stay; you've coerced them into repeating your blather and we know it. Duh! What "killers across the broader Middle East?" The people who use guerilla tactics against the high-tech military might of the US army and are successful in their efforts? You can't use the threat of al-Qaida again; we don't even know for sure if Osama bin Laden is still alive to lead them or have any concrete evidence that they are now in Iraq. Where's the proof? (Remember OBL?!? He hasn't been caught, in spite of the high-tech spy satellites and other high-tech military equipment we have; and besides which, he was reported to be in Afghanistan or Pakistan, NOT Iraq...! Or are you and/or Prince Bandar protecting OBL in some 'secret' hideaway. You certainly pull him out of a hat every time you want to talk about 'ter'rist' attacks!) Sending armies to go after a few criminals in your "global war on terror" was over-kill to begin with (pun intended). It should have been left to international law enforcement agencies to go after a few criminals, not an army to go after a few criminals who were never part of any army or represented any country. Now you are the #1 poster boy for recruiting new criminals that you call terrorists. They were little more than a glorified gang with no country before you ordered the illegal invasion of Iraq based on lies. How do we know the monies Congress proposed giving to you for mercenaries wasn't going straight to Halliburton headquarters (now in Dubai where we have no jurisdiction or oversight of how they spend US taxpayer dollars they've given Halliburton and/or subsidiaries) to be passed on to "insurgents" to finance their guerilla tactics, which you then use as bait to keep Congress Critters cowed into voting to give you more money without any exit strategy for your war crime? The ordinary people of the US never had any "commitments" to keep in Iraq! That was YOUR China shop that you invaded like a stumbling, drunken bull! You broke it!!! We're trying to fix it after you broke it, YOU STUPID LITTLE TWIT!!! You are forcing the citizens of this country to step in and be your surrogate daddy who will rescue you from YOUR mistakes and criminal actions!!!}}}

BTW, as usual CNN only hits the highlights of a given story. Here's the more detailed version of the Joan Baez incident from today's WashPo:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101999.html

Posted by: NonnyO at May 2, 2007 10:49 AM

NICE RIP!

(... and imho, the SCOTUS set the date for failure back in Y2k).

Posted by: Otter at May 2, 2007 10:50 AM

In her own words...

Why I Wanted to Sing at Walter Reed
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101572.html

I'm still really pissed off about last month's anti-choice SCOTUS decision.

Posted by: Otter at May 2, 2007 08:26 AM

We must also hold the CORPORATIONS that made the rise of John Roberts and Samuel Alito possible.

If that means boycotting the Toyota Prius, so be it. Toyota hired Roberts to screw over its workers by scrapping portions of the Americans with Disability Act that it didn't like.

I'll never have a Toyota (or Hyundai or Kia or Ford) in my garage. EVER.

Posted by: not my president at May 2, 2007 09:28 AM

As W said, there ought to be limits to freedom.

Ally -

Have you seen this article in Mother Jones?

Bush Sr. To Celebrate Rev. Sun Myung Moon—Again
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2007/04/bush_moon.html

I'm sure it's no surprise to you.

Posted by: Christy at May 2, 2007 01:14 AM

Christy,

Thank you for sharing. I read Aline's story in the last thread, and I can only begin to grasp how much of a drain it must be on your conscience.

We'll all help the nation make sure that crimes like Aline's death will not go unpunished.

(... and imho, the SCOTUS set the date for failure back in Y2k).
Posted by: MONKEY at May 2, 2007 10:55 AM

Yep, that be the originating point for the resulting tragedy. December, Y2K (December 12 or 13, I think it was?).

May the ones who voted in favor of stopping the FL vote count also break out in incurable allergic rashes from a guilty conscience....

Posted by: madame defarge at May 2, 2007 11:27 AM

Madame,

I know that Bush Sr. is a good buddy of the Koreans. He helped open that new Hyundai plant in Alabama.

And when Bush Sr. was first nominated for GOP presidential candidacy in 1988, the Korean fascists sent a deleg