dcpblog.png

« The Flip Side of Freedom of Speech | Main | A Modest Proposal: Reinstate Fair and Balanced Coverage »

Arianna: MSM has ADD, Bloggers Have OCD


arianna_320.jpg

Arianna Huffington recently appeared as a featured speaker at the Chautauqua Institution, a truly amazing piece of enlightened American history located in western New York that for well over a century has been a highly influential artistic, cultural, civic, and educational resource for people from all walks of life -- so much so that the name of the original venue became a definitive term for an entire national movement. Erica Erwin of The Erie Times-News had this to say about Ms. Huffington's remarks at the original Chautauqua this week:

CHAUTAUQUA, N.Y. -- In the 1950s, Edward R. Murrow revolutionized the news.

Today, bloggers are changing the way we read and receive the news -- but that doesn't mean traditional media outlets like television or newspapers are dying.

Arianna Huffington, co-founder and editor of HuffingtonPost.com, one of the most linked-to and cited blogs on the Internet, delivered that message to the nearly 3,000 people who gathered to hear her speak at the Chautauqua Institution on Wednesday.

"The whole debate over print or Web, print or TV, it's really obsolete," Huffington said. "It's going to be a hybrid future."

Huffington's 30-minute speech, "Edward R. Murrow Would Be a Blogger: How the Internet Revolution is Changing News, Politics, and the Way We See the World," was part of the institution's weeklong examination of the news.

While Huffington wasn't ready to write the obituary of traditional media outlets, she wasn't willing to dole out much praise, either.

The mainstream media suffers from attention deficit disorder, Huffington said. Newspapers and other mainstream outlets find a story, "cover it obsessively," and then drop it, she said.

The blogosphere, on the other hand, suffers from obsessive-compulsive disorder, she said.

Bloggers find a story and stay with it, often breaking news before their mainstream counterparts, Huffington said.

The story of Trent Lott making what some considered to be racist remarks at then-Sen. Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday party in 2002 was broken by a blogger, she said, and Lott was forced to resign.

"That's the power of the blogosphere," she said.

Mainstream news outlets can't distinguish an important story from a "titillating" story, Huffington said, citing the round-the-clock coverage of Paris Hilton and other "celebrities."

[...]

While acknowledging that bloggers need to do a better job when it comes to accuracy and fairness, Huffington said it was the mainstream media, not the online community, that "let the country down" during the run-up to the war in Iraq.

"The media became stenographers to power, to a very large extent," she said, again drawing applause.

More people are turning to blogs for their news because of increasing skepticism and discontentment with traditional outlets, she said.

Huffington also criticized traditional coverage of the presidential election.

"Campaign coverage is on a bus, on a plane, it's who's up, who's down, what the latest poll numbers say," she said. "It's not elucidating enough about who the candidates are."

[...]

Jude Aubry, 66, said he was ready to save HuffingtonPost.com as a favorite Web page on his computer after hearing Huffington speak.

"I liked her candor," said Aubry, who traveled from Toledo, Ohio, to spend a week vacationing in Chautauqua. "She reaffirmed the feelings I have."

David Polk, a 67-year-old North Port, Fla., resident who was also vacationing in Chautauqua, said Huffington was "spot on" in talking about the hybrid future of the news.

"I really appreciated what she had to say," he said. "I like her ability to be serious and funny at the same time."


84 Comments

The "me and my family first and screw everybody else" crowd have done it again.

Justices: Schools Must Ignore Race
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/062807Z.shtml
The Associated Press reports: "The Supreme Court on Thursday rejected school assignment plans that take account of students' race in two major public school districts. The decisions could imperil similar plans nationwide."

I am an advocate for the public schools and public healthcare and public transportation and public housing. Call me a commie and I'll thank you.

Looking forward to reading the thread header carefully but got to run.

Just speedread it backwards - that's funny that the blogosphere has OCD and MSM has ADD - true!

"I'll be back"

I want to repost this from the prior thread. My mother and some others who are in the upper rural midwest fit as well.
---

How about this for an idea about "when" change will occur - when the bloggers figure out how to reach out beyond the blogosphere ghetto. I can tell you that in my blue-collar, economically declining, city, 85% of the people do not use the internet at all. Probably 80% to 90% do not read a newspaper daily. They get most of their information via television and radio.

Many of these people now know that Bush is bad but they are not quite sure why, and they are not quite sure what to do about it.

Posted by: Ralpheh at June 28, 2007 11:21 AM

Bubba said:

History should write today as the end of the Bush administration. With the defeat of the Immigration bill today he has absolutely nothing left and should henceforth be labeled as a lame duck. Its now time for someone from the Progressive caucus to announce this.

Ralpheh said:

Our nation, our Congress Critters, have allowed psychopathic war criminals to tell us what to do, coerced people into committing war crimes on their behalf, all this time, and Lamestream Media has cheered them on.

When can we, as a nation (not just bloggers) call 'bull$h*te' on these war criminals "leading" us and say "Enough!"???

Posted by: NonnyO at June 28, 2007 03:32 AM

@@@@@@

How about this for an idea about "when" change will occur - when the bloggers figure out how to reach out beyond the blogosphere ghetto. I can tell you that in my blue-collar, economically declining, city, 85% of the people do not use the internet at all. Probably 80% to 90% do not read a newspaper daily. They get most of their information via television and radio.

Many of these people now know that Bush is bad but they are not quite sure why, and they are not quite sure what to do about it.

Kerstin said:

Bubba, while you do make a valid point about today possibly being the end of the Bush administration - at this point it is almost an insult to the nation to label him as a lame duck. He has done close to irreparable damage in the 7 years he has been at the helm, so this is like saying:

"Yes, he burned down the town, but he left three houses standing and we took away the matches."

Small comfort indeed.

Bubba said:

Kerstin: with the bent of the new Supreme Court your analogy about burning down the town/constitution is right on the mark. Your other statement that we have now taken away his matches and he has left us with only 3 houses, is exactly my point. We can not wait until January 2009 to start rebuilding our town/the constitution, now that he is officially irrelevant, progressive leaders need to step up, reassert constitutional principles and start rebuilding our town/country/the constitution.

Some times the rebuilding process is a slow arduous task and those on the left (viewed by their dissing the new Congress in polling)are impatient and want instant results. The tide has turned, this administration is officially on life support and progressives need to step up to the plate and fill that void before January 2009 and show we can lead. My 2 cents.

Christy said:

My cousin, whom I unleashed to be a blogger, just freaked out on Paris Hilton and CNN on her blog.


http://karrielynnr.blogspot.com/


Carol said:

Hey Rick,

Great thread! I spent a summer working at the Chatauqua Institute when I was in college, at the grand Atheneum Hotel. It was a blast!

That was long before blog were a twinkle in anyone's eye, and I'm glad to hear that Chatauqua is enlightening her visitors about the media.

Ralpeh
You must read from bottom to top too because I reposted what you said. The ends of the political spectrum are influential because they're activist but often overestimate their political influence. There are the swing voters and those who don't pay attention to the ends of the spectrum much.

I was almost hoping the immigration bill would pass so the right would be even more mad at W.

Back to the drawing board.

Kerry on Supreme Court Ruling on School Diversity

WASHINGTON, DC – Senator John Kerry today issued the following statement on the Supreme Court’s ruling on diversity in our nation’s schools.

“Today the Court ruled against all of our children and against our ideals. This mistake hits especially close to home in Massachusetts, where twenty towns could be affected. Schools across our state are working to level the playing field and offer all of our children a good education, regardless of race. Metco has been a Massachusetts success story and national model, and it’s beyond unacceptable for Metco to be threatened by a horrific decision by the Supreme Court.

“This decision is a terrible blow to civil rights in our country, and a disturbing reminder why we filibustered Samuel Alito’s nomination to the Supreme Court in the first place. This decision has turned Brown vs. Board of Education’s promise of fairness and opportunity for all upside down. This is, simply, overheated ideological and judicial activism run amok, and our state and everyone who believes in equal opportunity have work ahead to ensure that progress is not reversed.”

Otter said:

Fine, there you go with the Kerry stuff again. Kerry, Kerry, Kerry. Jeezbus! What is this place, some small-d hotbed of left-wing commie hippie moonbat Kerry-loving bloggers or something?

NonnyO said:

Posted by Rick Albertson at June 28, 2007 11:44 AM

Good thread header, and thanks!!! :-)

I'm on the HuffPo newsletter list, so I get the daily emails. Huffington is a rather good writer, and while I don't always agree with her, she usually makes solid points, which only gives me "stuff" to think about... and getting someone to think in a different vein is important. It's always important (IMHO) to know how other people view facts and truth, how they arrive at opinions if their analysis arrives at logical conclusions, and I like being able to attempt to 'put myself in someone else's shoes' to try to see their point of view. Any illogical conclusions can be blown out of the water with a few logical questions or facts that counter illogical conclusions. (It's when I read propaganda and vague crap that people like Rushie McLimpDick or O'Lielly and their ilk that that ability fails me; their things don't withstand scrutiny and when logical questions are asked, don't pass any fact-checking or truth-tests.)

In this particular case, I think Huffington is spot on, and I think we, as bloggers who have incessantly lamented Lamestream Media's role in promoting illegal war crimes in Iraq and even the torture going on at Gitmo in a positive light (as somehow 'heroic' and 'patriotic' - I still don't get that connection), as well as Lamestream Media's remarkable ability to broadcast trivial information as somehow more important than paying attention to deconstructing the lies and exposing the war crimes and other high crimes and misdemeanors of the criminal cabal "leading" this country know this as well as anyone.

I agree that Lamestream Media has ADD (if they didn't, they wouldn't follow or report all the red herrings put out by neoCons, nor would they report as serious 'news' the doings of people who are only famous for being famous, but who have done nothing with their lives otherwise), and that bloggers have OCD.

On the other hand, over these last few years I'm becoming convinced that certain bloggers (the ones who do fact-checking and use their analytical ability well) see truth much more clearly than anyone in Lamestream Media. There are bottom-line truths and high moral and ethical standards that are 'self-evident' when all is said and done and thousands of words are written. Good bloggers know that. It's Lamestream Media bobbleheads who have utterly failed to think or ask logical questions who have let us down so badly since 2000. The people who sign their paychecks are only interested in the profits their corporate entitites gain.

IMHO, if bloggers have OCD, it's an acquired condition born of inherent and genuine moral and ethical considerations to seek the truth and seek facts, not a negative personality trait. (Many artists in multiple disciplines who seek to become excellent in their field of expression have OCD; in that sense, it's a positive trait and the self-discipline is remarkable.)

The best bloggers, the best authors of articles that write facts and use their innate or acquired analytical ability, strike me as people who have a conscience, and they are morally outraged by the lies and war crimes and other high crimes and misdemeanors committed by our "leaders" - the activities of the liars and the criminal cabal make us look bad. We who have high moral and ethical standards are not what our "leaders" are, and we do not wish to be judged by the rest of the world as being like them. In grade school and junior high we learned the adage 'you are what your friends are' so to be judged as the same as the criminal cabal "leading" this nation rankles us beyond measure. (Or, it does me. I KNOW, deep down, I am not the same kind of person as the liars and criminals "leading" this country represent to the rest of the world. Every moral and ethical standard I have is offended beyond words that I might so be judged.)

So, yes. I have acquired an OCD-type of focus when it comes to the politicians "leading" this nation, the lies told and the war crimes committed, the secrets kept illegally in a government that was designed to be transparent.

And, no. I will not be seeking counseling (or believing the propaganda and brainwashing) for this OCD condition because I can't get over my moral outrage....

NonnyO said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070628/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_deserters
Little effort made to find deserters

Excerpts:

Despite a rise in desertions from the Army as the Iraq war drags on into a fifth year, the U.S. military does almost nothing to find those who flee and rarely prosecutes those it gets its hands on.
~~~~
Pentagon officials say that while the all-volunteer military is stretched thin by the fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, the number of deserters represents an extremely small percentage of the armed forces, and it would be a poor use of time to go after them, particularly when there is a war on.

{{{... A war illegally started, based on lies by Georgie and Dickie and their co-conspirators, one might hasten to point out.... Quite a lot more on link, including paragraphs relating to the experience of one man who turned himself in. I find this story satirically 'amusing.' If this gets any attention, it can only spotlight the lies for the illegal war in Iraq, just as Lt. Watada's statement did regarding the war crime of invading Iraq and why he refused to participate in war crimes (which resulted in charges being dropped; the administration and the Pentagon couldn't risk anyone asking questions about the lies leading up to their illegal war). I suspect the 'deserters' - some of whom cited family reasons for being AWOL - will not be pursued while Georgie and Dickie are in office, because they can't risk anyone in Lamestream Media coming out of their hypnotic trance and asking questions about their lies regarding the illegal invasion of Iraq, nor their war crimes at Gitmo and elsewhere. They will leave everything shrouded in secrecy. Lamestream Media will continue to be the circus masters and keep the masses pacified with red herring, sensational, non-news....}}}

monkey said:

Posted by: Otter at June 28, 2007 05:01 PM

Hey, that Mr. Left-wing commie hippie moonbat to you, mister.

Kremlin Lays Claim to Large Chunk of Oil Rich North Pole
http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,,2113289,00.html

monkey said:

Energy wars... and for watt?

Solarcoaster, of love...

Go Henry Waxman, whatever he's up to

Rumors:
Wall Street Journal people walking off job because of Murdoch buyout

Libby has a prison number

madame defarge said:

Rumors:
Wall Street Journal people walking off job because of Murdoch buyout
Posted by: not my president at June 28, 2007 08:05 PM

Well, in all fairness, there's a little more to that story, including the fact that they don't have a contract in place.


http://tinyurl.com/2ybgyb = NYTimes article

Many of The Wall Street Journal’s reporters did not show up for work this morning, to protest the expected sale of the newspaper’s parent, Dow Jones & Company, to Rupert Murdoch’s News Corporation, and the fact that they do not have a contract.

The reporters returned to work by mid-afternoon, ending a “stay-out” that their union had been secretly planning for several days, organizers said.

As for the other rumor:

Libby's Prison Number

Source: ABC News

ABC News' Jason Ryan Reports: While the Washington, D.C. Court of Appeals considers I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's request to remain free on bond pending the appeal of his conviction, the Justice Department has issued him an inmate number.

The United States Marshals assigned inmate number 28301-016 to the Vice President's former chief of staff and national security advisor, who was convicted in March on four felony charges of lying to the FBI, a grand jury and obstructing justice in the CIA Leak investigation.

The Bureau of Prisons will continue the process, and determine where Libby will have to report to prison. Currently a pre-sentence investigation report is being compiled by the probation office at the U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C.

...

If the D.C. Court of Appeals denies Libby's request to remain free on bond during the appeals process, he might have to report to prison by late July or early August.

Read more: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/06/scooter...

Posted by: not my president at June 28, 2007 04:03 PM

Thanks again, John Roberts!

Now it's time to go tell the ethnic communities to stop buying Toyota products.

Toyota (and Samsung and many other Asian companies) think they've earned their "white privilege" through their success, and feel free to screw over nonwhites at will. Let's prove them WRONG.


Bush Cites Israel as a Model for Iraq

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/bush-cites-israel-as-model-for-iraq/n20070628192909990005

Hadley trying to calm Lugar down ..

I received this with the caption "This is unbelievable" .. unfortunately, it no longer is.


woz said:

In 2004 he said that about Turkey.

NonnyO said:

http://www.pbs.org/now/index.html#poll

Online Poll: Should the President's executive privilege supersede Congress' interest in accessing private information?

Yes
No
It depends
Not Sure

woz said:

All the ADD people I know are fascinating and extremely creative whilst battling major bouts of depression. To think of some of my favourite people compared with those who spew out the mindless drivel of MSM is way off the mark. Much and all as I do like Arianna. She was even interviewed on our ABC last week. I think "Huffington Post" is the best name for a newspaper/site. I was surprised to discover that it's her real surname.

woz said:

I'm glad I'll never have to write the letter!!

Nuclear note weighs heavily on leaders
June 29, 2007

AFTER the pomp and ceremony of his departure from Buckingham Palace, his speech on the doorstep at 10 Downing Street and a partial cabinet reshuffle, Gordon Brown's role as British prime minister began with an onerous and somewhat sobering task.

Tony Blair, when faced with the duty, went white in the face, said onlookers. His predecessor, John Major, couldn't face it: he went home for the weekend.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/nuclear-note-weighs-heavily-on-leaders/2007/06/28/1182624079233.html

woz said:

Police defuse London bomb
June 29, 2007 - 8:34PM
British police defused a bomb left in an abandoned car in London's theatre district today and launched a counter-terrorism investigation.

The bomb was found in a light green Mercedes outside a nightclub in the early hours, an officer quoted witnesses as saying. Police played down media reports that the bomb was "massive".

monkey said:

Amid GOP pressure, Bush defends 'surge'

In the United States, as influential Republican senators call for a "sizable" drawdown of American troops in Iraq, President Bush defended his "surge" strategy during a Thursday address.

Speaking at the Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, Bush choked up while discussing Sgt. Cory M. Endlich, 23, of Massillon, Ohio -- killed in the Iraqi city of Taji on June 9.

"Here's what his dad said. He felt the war was justified and wanted to be there. That's what his dad said. 'I am proud of him and the job he is doing' ... and so am I," Bush said.

"We resolve to honor their sacrifice by finishing the work they had begun," Bush said of Endlich and his fellow troops.

Bush delivered his remarks amid a tumultuous political atmosphere in Washington and the country. Many critics of the administration's war policy -- including voices in the military -- have emerged since the Iraq conflict began more than four years ago.

Such critics say the U.S. effort in Iraq has been greatly flawed, with the administration ignoring key advice from military and diplomatic officials all along about military strategy, troop strength and post-invasion planning.

Bush and Republican leaders in Congress have been urging patience until Gen. David Petraeus and Ryan Crocker, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, report on the status of the "surge" in September.

Bush said he is optimistic about the military's series of offensives in Iraq that began as the U.S. troop escalation recently reached full strength.

"The last of the reinforcements arrived in Iraq earlier this month, and the full surge has begun. One of our top commanders, [Lt. Gen.] Ray Odierno, puts it this way: 'We are beyond a surge of forces and we're now into a surge of operations.' "

more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/29/iraq.main/index.html

monkey said:

Roadside bomb kills 5 U.S. soldiers in Baghdad

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Five U.S. soldiers were killed and seven others wounded when a roadside bomb exploded near their combat patrol in southern Baghdad, the U.S. military said Friday.

The patrol also was attacked with rocket-propelled grenades and small-arms fire after Thursday's explosion, the military said.

The number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq this month stands at 98. The death toll for U.S. military personnel in the Iraq war totals 3,568.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/06/29/iraq.main/index.html


monkey said:

Worst 3 months for U.S. in Iraq since war began
5 GIs killed in latest attack, bringing U.S. toll to 329 for the past 3 months

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19497735/

madame defarge said:

Posted by: monkey at June 29, 2007 09:58 AM

And how many wounded... They never talk about how many were wounded. That's the astounding number to focus on. Many more soldiers are surviving these attacks, but with devastating wounds that last a lifetime, in a VA system that is beyond inadequate.

And we thought it was bad for the Vietnam Vets...

Christy said:

I hate to tell yall this, but ADD and ADHD or whatever they are calling it now...

Is not a real disease.

It is an excuse to drug our kids.

With AMPHETAMINES.

Obessive Compulsive is the life for me.

Christy said:

BTW... AIDS is a real disease and thank God for German Scientists. If they had been US doctors our government would have already shut them down and buried the results.

Scientists find way to separate HIV virus from cells


In a breakthrough that could potentially lead to a cure for HIV infection, scientists have discovered a way to remove the virus from infected cells, a study released Thursday said.

The scientists engineered an enzyme which attacks the DNA of the HIV virus and cuts it out of the infected cell, according to the study published in Science magazine.


Continues


http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Scientists_find_way_to_separate_HIV_0629.html


HELLLLLL YEEESSSSSS!!!!!


monkey said:

Scientists find way to separate HIV virus from cells

Posted by: Christy at June 29, 2007 10:32 AM

Lemme guess, Shrub thinks that is crossing some moral line.

F*ck you, buddy.

Christy said:

One more thing... Remember all that racial stuff I said happens all the time in Louisiana...? I would like a serious moment to once again say, 'I am not kidding.'

Black high school students in Louisiana threatened with lynching


In September 2006, a group of African American high school students in Jena, Louisiana, asked the school for permission to sit beneath a “whites only” shade tree. There was an unwritten rule that blacks couldn’t sit beneath the tree. The school said they didn’t care where students sat. The next day, students arrived at school to see three nooses (in school colors) hanging from the tree….

The boys who hung the nooses were suspended from school for a few days. The school administration chalked it up as a harmless prank, but Jena’s black population didn’t take it so lightly. Fights and unrest started breaking out at school. The District Attorney, Reed Walters, was called in to directly address black students at the school and told them all he could “end their life with a stroke of the pen.”

Black students were assaulted at white parties. A white man drew a loaded rifle on three black teens at a local convenience store. (They wrestled it from him and ran away.) Someone tried to burn down the school, and on December 4th, a fight broke out that led to six black students being charged with attempted murder. To his word, the D.A. pushed for maximum charges, which carry sentences of eighty years. Four of the six are being tried as adults (ages 17 & 18) and two are juveniles

Continues


http://www.whileseated.org/photo/003244.shtml

Christy said:

Yes we still have white schools and black schools, the white grocery store as oppossed to the black grocery store. ALLLLLLL of our churches are either 'the white church' or 'the black church'. Black people have their day cares, white people have their daycares.

There is the black parts of town, there are the whites parts of town.

And now, apparently our shade trees are also a color dominated scenario.

Just great.

Christy said:

Excuse me, but, when a white kid hangs three freaking NOOSES around a tree as a warning to black children who want to sit there...

Is that, or is that not a DEATH THREAT? Is it not actually 3 of them?

But yet it is 6 black kids going on trial and they most certainly will be tried in front of an all white jury.

By a DA who already threatened to 'end their lives'.

Freaking Louisiana.

Posted by: Christy at June 29, 2007 10:58 AM

You're not alone re: churches.

Mainline Protestant churches are the most segregated institutions in America today.

Where I am, different races may share a facility, but never at the same time. A white church at 10AM will be a Korean church at 1PM and Latino or Filipino at 3PM, and so on.

Back to the topic of threatened lynchings, that's a disgrace on the Louisiana society as a whole. I am about to puke (and I'm not kidding on this).

Otter said:

I hate to tell y'all this, but ADD and ADHD or whatever they are calling it now...

Is not a real disease.

It is an excuse to drug our kids.

With AMPHETAMINES.

Posted by: Christy at June 29, 2007 10:28 AM

---------------

Christy,

With all due respect... kiss my ass.

ADD/ADHD might well be both the most over-diagnosed and under-diagnosed legitimate illness in current times thanks to the stoopid op-psych stuff you were surely thinking of when you made that post, but it *is* a legitimate illness nonetheless. I know this for a fact, because I deal with it every day in my own life.

I was finally diagnosed with it in 1997 after a lifetime of wrestling with the many disadvantages as well as the significant advantages of this condition. I went through a very extensive testing process in the course of participating in an Emory University study of ADD/ADHD in adults before we were all sure of just what I had to deal with and how it manifested itself in my case. It is real, very real.

I have learned a very large amount about adult ADD/ADHD from technical and medical as well as from personal standpoints over the years. It is a very real medical/pyschiatric condition, it is a very real problem for those who do suffer from its effects and for those who love them and live with them, and I for one get really, really pissed off when people who should ought to know better make blanket statements of small-minded denial like you did in this comment.

And yes, by the way, my doctors do in fact prescribe AMPHETAMINES for me as part of my treatment/coping program for living with a backwards-wired brain. They calm me down and help me think more clearly and less chaotically. If I get distracted and take more than my small standard twice-daily dose of clinical dextroamphetamine, which has happened on a few occasions, it just puts me to sleep. Go figure.


but don't you dare try to tell me what's going on in my own brain,
Otter

And more on segregation -

Southern California, being the good ol' red state that it is, was once segregated too.

All the upper-class neighborhoods favored by Asian Republican nouveaux-riches who think they're whites - they used to be whites-only neighborhoods. They've been historically black-free, and remain that way even today.

Christy said:

Hey Otter, I will not be kissing your ass nor anyone elses.

Ever hear of SIDS...?

Sensory Integration disorder.

Talk about underdiagnosed. And the funny thing is...

Oh well, nevermind, you must know all about it.

Right?

If not, you can kiss my ass.

With all due respect.

Posted by: not my president at June 29, 2007 12:29 AM

Israel? Not Korea?

That's new to me.

But maybe it shouldn't be, since both nations have yanked American politics hard to the right.

On another note, here's a rather large free trade agreement that the US has signed, but the average American has never heard of, thanks to our media:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6252890.stm

By the way, our Korean buddies are so anxious to shove this FTA down our throats, that all labor union actions currently ongoing to oppose this FTA have been declared illegal.

For NMP and others following French politics:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6252568.stm

French unemployment is 8.1%, a 25-year low. Sarko is expected to take credit for it and push ahead with his reforms.

Very funny. Someone anonymously put a flyer for the Iranian Festival on my desk. I'm not sure of their intent, but I can guess. Well the joke is on them, because I'm going. Rumi poetry. Talent show. Music & Dance. Performances. Iranian Food. I'm going.

Try this:

6 tbsp olive oil
1/4 tsp turmeric
1/2 cup crushed tomatoes
1 tsp paprika
1 medium cauliflower cut into 1 1/2-inch florets
1 small eggplant cubed
2 medium potatoes cubed(
1 1/2 tsp cumin seeds roated and ground
2 tsp coarse salt
1 tsp toasted sesame seeds
2. 1.5 minced cup onion
3. 2.0 minced tsp garlic
4. 2.0 grated fresh ginger
5. 0.25 minced cup fresh coriander
6. 0.25 ground cup blanched almonds
7. 1.0 tbsp ground coriander
8. 0.5 ground tsp fennel seed
9. 0.5 tsp cayenne pepper

Ally
French unemployment is down because they make use of interns as we expect people to have 2-3 jobs. Bleh was Bush's poodle, Sarko can be his pitbull. I'm scheming to go over there soon.

Christy
Sensory Integration disorder is my specialty.
It's good to start early intervention as soon as it's possible.

Please stop with the ass kissing already.
These disorders are all underdiagnosed and undertreated and there is much ignorance about them, as well as with schizophrenia (like my sister has) and other conditions.

Huffington was speaking in generalities. She used the terms loosely. She meant mainstream media keeps stories for a very short time and bloggers run things into the ground.

Huffington has a pretty loose mouth sometimes and can be self-promoting, same as Maureen Dowd and s/he who shall go nameless.

Christy said:

I believe they underdiagnose it cause there ain't no pills to pimp for it.

For adults, there is no cure at all.

Maybe a valium every now and then, but it is still far from curable.

Christy said:

"schizophrenia (like my sister has)"

I know that must be horribly hard to deal with sometimes, but I must admit schizophrenia facinates me.

I always wonder how much our imaginations have to do with regulating our sanity. How does our imagination shape our actual REALITY...?

Schizophrenics seem to hold the answers to that.

You are right, there is too much ignorance about conditions of the mind. I think people in general, 80%, do not really want to know because it will completely change their fundamental understanding of everything else.

Once they understand HOW the brain works they will have to view everything from colors to God Himself differently. In a different context.


Otter said:

Some forms of Sensory Integration Dysfunction, aka Sensory Processing Disorder, share some symptomology with Attention Deficit (Hyperactivity) Disorder. In some cases, they're co-morbid conditions that reinforce each other to negative effect. In other cases, they're mis-diagnosed as each other and treated incorrectly as a result. The distinctions are often unclear because both diagnoses lump together several different subtypes that may or may not even belong in the same classification.

In a nutshell, SID/SPD involves the inability to correctly interpret and process incoming sensory data. ADD/ADHD involves the inability to correctly filter and assimilate incoming sensory data. There's a lot of overlap in the resulting effects on perception and awareness, some of which can also overlap with other related cognitive/emotive disorders, which is what makes correct diagnosis of these conditions such a difficult and time-consuming task requiring specialized training.

Which is why school nurses and general practice family physicians should never be allowed to hang labels like SID/SPD and ADD/ADHD on kids and dispense pyschoactive pharmaceuticals to them without the corroboration of psychological and/or psychiatric professionals who have the expertise required and are willing to put in the time required to produce an accurate diagnosis in each individual case.

I won't clutter up the comments threads but putting in multiple reference links in re the above statements, but anybody who'd like more detail on it is welcome to email me via the link that comes up when you click on my posting nick below.

Christy said:

"In a nutshell, SID/SPD involves the inability to correctly interpret and process incoming sensory data. ADD/ADHD involves the inability to correctly filter and assimilate incoming sensory data. "

"interpret and process"

And


"filter and assimilate"


Have the exact same meaning.

Christy
There are individual differences in threshold and there are several sensory modalities - so some people avoid or seek certain stimuli - find them pleasant, confusing, aversive etc. - depending.

Like I work with some people who are fine with four overhead flourescant lights on and windows, even if the lights are buzzing and if people are yelling and screaming and loud. I work with one light and soft music and teach "indoor voice."

It's highly variable with the children and with those who work with them. People close to the "norm" are supposedly "neurotypical" but I think we all have our quirks and learn to compensate. & if not for that, there would be no diversity in the world.

But for one vote, the Supreme Court almost determined yesterday that "diversity" wasn't something to be desired. To hell with them.

Christy said:

I know it is highly variable.

Two ends of the same spectrum.

And it often runs in famies.

As far as amphetamines and ADD, hasn't anyone besides me had several cups of coffee this morning to "focus"?

Amphetamine abuse such as with meth labs IS a big problem. Stimulants properly administered can be a partial SOLUTION to a problem.

Drug treatment should be coupled with therapy or behavioral or some other treatment and good diagnosis, not done blindly by those not specialized and who may be influenced by drug companies and that happens.

We should not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

One of the best things to look at is the DSSM that is used for diagnosis. Many people have multiple diagnoses, severity varies, age of onset varies, etiology varies. Most of these problems with these labels occur along a spectrum of severity.

With children, I work alot with multisensory stuff, as they all learn differently - some more visual, some more auditory, some more hand-on and every combination. We learn visually alot before they are barraged with alot of verbal instructions or it may sound to them like on the Simpsons where the teacher is talking and Bart hears "blah blah blah."

I suppose I'm kind of like the teacher on that program who is a "liberal" LOL

Christy
Runs in families yes - but there are increases in alot of these conditions that may have to do with toxins in the environment.

I have seen so many little autistic kids who are very attached to Thomas the Train so wasn't pleased to hear that some of the coaches were painted with lead paint.

See Teresa Heinz Kerry's chapter on Toxins in their latest book - I was able to ask John and Teresa directly about what they believe is the role of toxins. They had been approached by parents of identical twins where only one had a particular DX (and had a different exposure than the other, then came down with the problem). & many more such cases.

Alot of these things are inborn but there are cases of apparent new onset or regression AND for kids with a tendency or vulnerability, the last thing they need is exposure to a toxin. Then there is the issue of risk to pregnant women.

So much of the money invested in war could be going toward improving health.

Paul Krugman: The Murdoch Factor
http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/

(subscription only, NYT and IHT but found it!!)

Yikes!

E.J. Dionne writes, "If another conservative replaces a member of the court's moderate-to-liberal bloc, the country will be set on a conservative course for the next decade or more, locking in today's politics at the very moment when the electorate is running out of patience with the right."

(Center for American Progress)

Otter said:

"interpret and process"
And
"filter and assimilate"

Have the exact same meaning.

Posted by: Christy at June 29, 2007 12:54 PM

------------

No, Christy, they quite specifically do not.

interpret, process - more cortical
filter, assimilate - more subcortical

That's a gross generalization.

I would recommend
The Scientist in the Crib by Kuhl & Meltzoff
The Out of Sync CHild by Carol Kranowitz
American Normal by Lawrence Osborne
Emergence Labelled Austistic by Temple Grandin

Christy said:

Hey Otter.

Yes they do have the same meaning and frankly when you took a snarky comment I made out of context and turned it into a personal attack on your mental state where you were so offended you began by telling me to kiss your ass and saying things like 'but don't you dare try to tell me what's going on in my own brain,' ...

I totally lost interest in anything you may yet to add on it.

Believe what you want to believe. I don't really care.

monkey said:

Don't make me pull this blog over...

I'll take off my belt, I swear.

monkey said:

... oh, and if there's gonna be any ass kissin' goin on, I'd like a little more advance notice so I can prepare accordingly.

Christy said:

Please do pull the blog over, I have the munchies.

The only food on this thread is some wierd Iranian hippi thing.


monkey said:

Dems push White House on executive privilege
10-day deadline given along with vow to invoke 'full force of law'

WASHINGTON - Congressional Democrats took the first steps Friday in what could be a long march to court, with the Bush administration and Congress in a legal tug-of-war over executive and legislative branch powers.

In a letter to White House counsel Fred Fielding, the heads of the Judiciary committees demanded an explanation in 10 days of why the White House claimed executive privilege on subpoenaed documents and vowed to invoke "the full force of law."

The fight centers on an investigation that Democrats initially undertook into the firings of several U.S. attorneys, but which has since branched out to scrutiny of the administration's terrorism-era warrantless wiretapping and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' stewardship of the Justice Department.

"The veil of secrecy you have attempted to pull over the White House by withholding documents and witnesses is unprecedented and damaging to the tradition of open government by and for the people that has been a hallmark of the republic," Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., and Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., told Fielding.

They gave the White House until July 9 to furnish the factual and legal bases for the executive privilege claim and documentation that President Bush personally signed off on it.

Subpoena enforcement
Whether or not the White House meets the deadline, "we will take the necessary steps to rule on your privilege claims and appropriately enforce our subpoenas backed by the full force of law," Leahy and Conyers wrote.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19508976/

NonnyO said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070629/ap_on_go_co/guantanamo_congress

Democrats hope to close Guantanamo

Excerpt (more on link):

With no timetable announced by Bush, Congress is moving ahead on its own. In July, the House Appropriations Committee is expected to propose funding only half of Guantanamo's budget in the military's annual spending bill.

While a precise figure of how much would be cut was not immediately available, the prison's annual operation budget is about $125 million a year.

Acting before Bush is ready would enable Democrats to claim victory in closing the prison.

"What I'm most concerned about is that we uphold a rule of law and not give our enemies a compelling talking point that we are not true to our principles," said Rep. Jim Moran, D-Va. "As long as we detain people indefinitely without charging them, it's a potent weapon in the propaganda war against this country. And that's what Guantanamo has become."

Bubba said:

Claims of Executive Privilege were not recognized in the Nixon Supreme Court ruling because assertions were made of potential criminal behavior. The question is, whether the Senate Juiciary Committee will have the guts to make such assertions to this Supreme Court otherwise the courts will side with Bush's theory of the unitary executive and deny Congress their right to subpoenas. What do you think about thatlegal theory? I feel that is unlikey and therefore a waste of time by Senator Leahy.

monkey said:

Bush losing 'fast track' trade powers
Democrats not eager to give president new trade negotiating authority

WASHINGTON - President Bush loses his power Saturday to seal "fast track" trade agreements without interference from Congress, where Democrats blame recent deals for sending U.S. jobs abroad.

more...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19509838/

Bubba said:

Incidentally notmypresident, it is doubtful that Libby will ever spend one day in a federal prison. Hope I am wrong.

Posted by: monkey at June 29, 2007 05:23 PM

Good. If W is going to keep signing secret free trade agreements with his Korean and other foreign buddies, there better be a way left for Congress to check his powers.

It's possible to discuss differences in a mature manner. Let's try.

The Iranian dish is incredibly good. If you don't believe it, get the fresh ingredients and make it and try it.

You will have dreams about it.

There are personal things I don't really talk about on here because maybe I'd get into the same type of emotional discussion with someone.

So I suppose it is going to happen.

Christy

"interpret and process"
And
"filter and assimilate"

In a general sense they may have the meaning, but in a neurological sense they don't.

Filtering is perceptual, interpretation is cognitive. They're at different hierarchical levels of analysis.

I can back that up.

Wall Street Journal Workers Protest Over Murdoch Takeover
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/062907LA.shtml
Wall Street Journal employees are trying to pressure the Bancroft family, which has controlled Dow Jones for more than a century, not to sell the newspaper to Rupert Murdoch and to consider alternative bidders, reports Stephen Foley for the Independent.

Metalworkers Continue Massive Anti-FTA Strike
http://www.truthout.org/issues_06/062907LB.shtml
The Korean Metal Workers' Union, South Korea's largest single union, has been protesting for the past four days against a pending free trade agreement (FTA) between South Korea and the United States, reports Yonhap News. South Korea and the US finished negotiations for an FTA in April and is expected to be signed in Washington on Friday, before being ratified by the legislative bodies of both countries.

Go labor!

At least we have kind of stayed on the thread header topic today, although it as actually media - the psychological descriptors were largely metaphor.

Mitt Romney may lose his slot for the Presidency not because he's a Mormon but because he put his dog on the roof.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2007/06/romneys_treatme.html

We've had dementia, addiction, philandering - I suppose poor judgment wouldn't be such a stretch for a qualification.

V said:

DiAnne,

What exactly do you do with all the ingredients for that Iranian dish? It sounded yummy but I just saw the shopping list posted above.

What is your thought on ADD being treatable behaviorally (with or without drugs in combination)? I've tried a number of things in a classroom situation as "desperation measures", some of which actually seemed to work. I also know more than a few adults who say they have ADD (were diagnosed) but went off the meds because the "treated state" takes away their energy.

And please, no ass-kissing. I deal with enough of that during the workday. Anybody starts, I'm getting out the soap and baby wipes.

NonnyO said:

Posted by: not my president at June 29, 2007 07:33 PM

Romney's religion is a non-issue to me. As you know, I believe religion is a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to contribute to politics.

HOWEVER, the thing that brought up a mental howl of "NO-O-O-O-O-O-O!!!" in my brain was the sound byte when Romney said he'd not only not close Gitmo but increase the size of it...! That horrified me beyond my moral and ethical sensibilities because even having such a place is a war crime!!!

IMHO, however, I believe how his dog was treated was animal cruelty.

Romney's treatment of his dog (on top of the Gitmo approval that so horrified me) just convinces me that Romney is mentally unfit to hold any political office. We most certainly do not need another pretzelnitwit who would only continue the illegal policies and practices of Georgie and Dickie.... (And we don't even know yet if they will give up their de facto dictatorship in January '09....)

Christy said:

"Filtering is perceptual, interpretation is cognitive. They're at different hierarchical levels of analysis."


And they both screw up in the same place for the same reason with SIDS.

You are talking about the same staircase just different floors.


NonnyO said:

Alot of these things are inborn but there are cases of apparent new onset or regression AND for kids with a tendency or vulnerability, the last thing they need is exposure to a toxin. Then there is the issue of risk to pregnant women.

So much of the money invested in war could be going toward improving health.

Posted by: not my president at June 29, 2007 02:27 PM

Yes.... Toxins are something I DO know about because myself and several other people in my family are affected by them; we apparently have unusually sensitive autoimmune systems (a genetic inheritance; many of us have major allergies). That's why inside the four walls of my humble abode toxic products are strictly banished, why I only use vinegar and baking soda for cleaning (like our ancestors did!), and why I only use one perfume-free and dye-free laundry soap (for dishes as well as clothing now, since the dish soap I was using is no longer made), and I can add one of the powdered perfume-free soaps for laundry with the liquid soap. For hand soaps, only one brand that's labeled for sensitive skin (the same company puts out an 'unscented' version, but that one stinks to high heaven; 'unscented' is a chemical perfume, too). One anti-perspirant is okay and that has the 'unscented' label, but they evidently do not use any scents in manufacturing it. For hand or body lotion, I head to the laxative counter and buy mineral oil (baby oil without the scent is what it is!). I've never used mineral oil for its stated purpose, only as a body lotion after a shower. Shampoos are iffy. There are a couple of them that are sort of okay, but I've even taken to watering them down. I've not found a satisfactory shampoo that's relatively odor-free, and of the brands that have been around for many years, it seems the smells they used to have that used to be mild are now overpowering (same smell, chemically enhanced to be more pungent).

When out shopping or anywhere else, when a perfume-laden person walks by with that invisible cloud of scent (they always remind me of skunks with the invisible cloud wafting in the breeze behind them), it gives me an instant pre-migraine headache, and unbelievably, the area of my body where the liver is situated becomes painful immediately (I know the liver processes toxins of all kinds, but the reaction feels bizarre all the same).

Whatever chemical combination is involved to make those horrible odors with the generic label of "perfume" or "scent" (it's a trade secret, but it is known that formaldehyde is in some cosmetics, and that's a carcinogen) is most definitely toxic. I remember once putting one little drop of perfume from the trial bottle at a perfume counter on my hand, and lived to regret it. The smell invaded my pores and even after I dang near scrubbed the skin off on that spot with soap and water, it still stunk, and by that time the headache the smell had given me was making me angry (which makes me empathetic to children who lack the verbal skills to describe the reaction to certain toxic smells; if they 'misbehave' in class it may not be ADD or ADHD, but a reaction to the smell of toxic chemicals). The same chemical smells could send my mother into an asthma attack if we were in stores together and got near the soap or perfume or scented candles aisles. That happened a few times and I still remember the fear listening to her cough; I thought she was going to die on the spot in public. A year or more later when she was hospitalized last, I asked a male nurse with a cloud of aftershave to wash it off. He was working in ICU, it was known my mother had asthma and emphysema, so he should have known better than to come to work all smelly; I don't know how his aftershave smell affected the other patient in the room where my mother was. (He took time off of work to go shower.)

Ever watch a baby's face or a toddler's face when they smell perfume-laden people or rooms with too much 'air freshener'? Their faces scrunch up in distaste. There are also toxins in some felt-tip pens (the kind used in schools - and I've heard of some children who are only affected when using things like the toxic felt tip pens, but do not "misbehave" away from the classroom - take the toxin away and the child's behavior returns to normal). There are toxins in plastics (& children's toys). Polyester clothing is made with petroleum, so even some clothing is toxic, too (some of it actually stinks, according to my nose, so I gather the 'sizing agents' are a toxic chemical until they're washed out of cloth!); I use cotton or silk for clothing and now I usually make my own clothing, but whatever I buy I wash thoroughly before I wear it. There are toxins everywhere nowadays, and the only defensive measures one can take is to have one's home a toxin-free zone - and read every label of every product (saves a lot of money to also refuse to buy toxic products!).

Even our deaths will someday be toxic to future generations. Formaldehyde is in embalming fluid. When ground water seeps into those caskets (they are not vacuum-sealed, after all), even if they are currently inside cement to protect the caskets, the formaldehyde will become part of our ground water. Many state laws mandate embalming. The only way around that is cremation.

What I (and other family members) have used to be labeled 'petrochemical sensitivity' but I notice the same thing has now been re-named Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS), since it's not only petroleum involved, but a lot of other things that are often found mixed with petroleum extracts which cause allergic and/or physically toxic reactions, some of which affect how one's brain functions. It's a major nuisance to live with this because the only relief is avoidance of toxic products - no quick-fix cure-alls or pills for any of it except the pollen allergies (antihistamines, but I can only take the one without corn starch fillers and without certain food coloring). The only "cure" is to attempt to eliminate all toxic products from one's environment.

So, nmp, I'd recommend one step further. As a nation I don't think we'd have half the medical problems we do if toxic products were not part of our everyday lives. It would certainly cut down on misdiagnosed medical and/or mental conditions that could be 'cured' - or at least alleviated - by getting the toxins out of our homes, starting with carpeting (another petroleum product!) and working up from there, including some furniture (formaldehyde is a bonding agent in plywood furniture and it concentrates, not dissipates, in closed rooms). "New onset" conditions in both children and adults are quite likely connected to sensitive autoimmune systems in many people whose bodies just can't process chemical toxins, and the root cause is quite likely the toxic chemicals we bring into our own homes.

If we had even half the budget of the military to spend on education (and not that crap where kids are taught only what's necessary to pass tests - that makes for an utterly boring atmosphere in which to "learn" and doesn't teach people how to think!), we might raise a nation of kids and young adults better equipped to learn more about themselves, how their own bodies react to toxins, how the environment around them responds to toxins, and they might be smart enough to go back to living in a way that will not hurt both ourselves and our environment (they're linked, after all, since our garbage is also polluting our landfills and water, thus the environment in which we and other species live, some of which are now going extinct or suffer odd deformities, thanks to humans).

If we go back to more natural non-toxic lifestyles that may cause some of the corporations to go bankrupt; specifically, oil corporations, since petroleum is so much a part of the toxic things that affect humans and other animals with sensitive autoimmune systems (and we do need smaller cars that run on alternative fuels).... The chain reaction is that then there would be no need for the illegal wars to control access to or sale of oil.... Ultimately, when the oil runs out, our species (if it survives without a nuclear holocaust and without major mutations thanks to toxins) will be forced to go back to living in much the same way as our ancestors did, raising and preserving food on our own little plots of land. If we had a better educational system (throwing money at the problem isn't the solution; we need good teachers, too!), the kids could learn how our ancestors lived and go back to living more naturally. To stem the tide of overpopulation that could cause mass starvation, we need to go back to zero population growth that people talked about 30 years ago. We are stressing Mother Earth by our large numbers which only cause more multiple types of pollution. An overpopulated area also causes people to fight for resources, not cooperate with each other for the benefit of all.

On the whole, we need to be smarter consumers in the present (as we eliminate toxins from our homes and our environment), and we desperately need to be better educated on multiple levels for our species to even survive into the future. When I read accounts of some of the talents our ancestors had just to be able to survive on their own farms, it's positively mind-boggling. All those areas of what was general knowledge are now specialties: how to rotate crops and when to plant and harvest and then prepare those grains for food and how much to reserve for planting the following spring, how to care for different kinds of animals and what to feed each and rotate pastures, how to build sturdy houses and barns, how to plant and prepare and preserve foods grown in their own gardens, how to butcher and preserve meat from their own animals for use during winter, those who lived near seas had boats and caught only the number of fish needed to enable their families and community to have another staple of meat for their winter fare after preserving it, how to make their own clothing.... the list is endless. When they didn't have a particular talent or resource, they bartered for goods and services; and if a neighbor was hurt or killed, they all pitched in to help the surviving family (they still do in rural communities). Even though they worked hard, our ancestors had time to artistically decorate their clothing and homes, play music, have festivals where everyone celebrated. Yes, I unabashedly admire many things our ancestors did, the multiple skills and talents they had in abundance that shows me they used their brains - and they accomplished all of that without electricity or other 'modern' machinery! Amazing!

On the whole, with all the specialization modern life has brought us with the advent of the industrial revolution, we've lost our innate skills to survive, or even to raise a garden for basic foodstuffs; many have become functional illiterates devoted to the bread and circuses doled out to us via Lamestream Media (TV specifically) - and our politicians have become experts at the art of propaganda. I firmly believe we need to re-learn the multiple skills our ancestors had to survive as family and/or community units. Big government (especially now that big corporations have taken over so much) works against us in some areas, even if it is good for some things. Balance is needed, but we can't achieve balance unless we first educate people in multiple disciplines so they can see how multiple areas interact with and affect other areas of life.

Balance is my perpetual daydream, not this living surreal painting that life has become since December 2000....

Sorry. The above is not a rant! Because of things that have affected me and family members, I've put a lot of thought into the subject of toxins of all kinds for about 25 years (as well as the practical application of how to avoid them). But I had to stop writing because the info I've gleaned over all that time about the subject is too much to include on a blog entry.

Christy said:

It makes you wonder how many toxic... infections?... get passed off as genetic conditions.

It stands to reason families all cluster so any toxin that they are exposed to could mimic a genetic 'disorder'.

In our chemical doused nation it is scary to think of what we are all breathing.

Ick.


Christy said:

Another Friday resignation at the DoJ.

“A Justice Department official who was eyed as a possible replacement for one of several fired U.S. attorneys announced her resignation Friday. Rachel Brand, the assistant attorney general in the Office of Legal Policy, will step down July 9, the department said in a statement.” Last week, Steve Benen recounted three other DoJ officials who have recently announced their resignations on Fridays.


http://thinkprogress.org/


They are trying to escape very quietly.

You are talking about the same staircase just different floors.

Posted by: Christy at June 29, 2007 08:02 PM

Pretty much - you have a poetic way of saying things. The only thing I would add is sometimes one floor has to be intact or the other falls in on it, etc.

Don't forget to check
the Open Thread blog
for all the daily chit-chat
and news items.

Costs

Cost of the War in Iraq

(JavaScript Error)

Recent Comments