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(More) Profiles in Courage
Last week karen presented us with a video she'd made in memory of liberal media activist Maria Leavey, in which she cited a number of other women who had the courage to speak out against war and injustice. As she noted in her intro to that video,
...in reading about Maria, I recognized aspects of so many of the women (and some men) who work day after day to make a difference, including the lack of resources and reduced circumstances under which they toil. So I made a video. It's called 'What Would Maria Do?' I made it because I want you to know about the women who create, write, speak, march, and who make a difference, no matter how small, and who inspire me to keep on keeping on.
I was reminded of that video when I read a recent dKos diary profiling another woman activist who's displaying uncommon courage, strength, and tenacity in the face of overwhelming odds. Her name is Doris Tennant, but she and her equally courageous partner Ellen Lubell are not marching in the street for the sake of justice -- they're carrying it with them right through the cold gray gates of Guantanamo Bay.
Here's what dKos diarist geomoo had to say about the two women's efforts to defend Gitmo detainees against their illegal detention:
My ex-wife, Doris Tennant-Moore, just returned from her second visit to Guantanamo, where she is representing Abdul Aziz Naji. To all appearances, he is one of the unluckiest of the unlucky, in contrast to his characterization by our government. It seems he was arbitrarily captured on the basis either of association with the wrong people or of being turned in for bounty. He claims never to have committed any kind of violence against any US citizen. I am writing this diary to inform, but also in hopes of attracting some emotional and financial support for Doris’ principled commitment to do all she can to represent one detainee and to fight our country's illegal and immoral conduct at Guantanamo.
Although she was already working absurd hours just to support herself, Doris felt compelled to do more than watch as our government engaged in torture and the institutional undermining of international law. She is now spending up to half her time doing what she can on this case and working to educate people about US involvement with arbitrary imprisonment, torture, and violation of long-established tenets of western jurisprudence.
[...]
Doris downplays the financial and emotional price she has paid for doing this work. She feels any price she pays is hardly worth mentioning in comparison with the suffering of the detainees. ... I know many good-hearted citizens here experience trauma and despair just from hearing reports of the suffering created by our government, in our name. Imagine how much greater the challenge both of becoming personally acquainted with an apparently innocent detainee and of taking on the enormous task of fighting for him against the illegal and unprincipled machinations of the US government in Guantanamo.
The dKos diary includes a detailed report by Doris Tennant and Ellen Lubell about their latest trip to Guantanamo Bay that's well worth the read. (It also provides information on you can continue to the Tennant Lubell Detainee Fund to support their pro bono legal defense efforts, should you be so inclined.)
Here are some additional links where you can find out more about these two courageous women and their ongoing efforts on behalf of Abdul Aziz Naji:
Lawyers committed to Guantanamo prisoner’s rights (Newton Tab article)
2 local lawyers offer aid to Guantanamo detainees (Boston Globe article)
One the Guantanamo detainees (NECN video interview segment)
Potshot at Guantanamo lawyers backfires (Boston Globe article)
Newton Dialogues on Peace and War (news release from Doris Tennant)
Thanks for the new thread header! Am going to read it over better at lunch. I'm hearing from people who are already watching bootleg copies of Moore's "Sicko" and are infuriated. Told them they ought to also see it at a theater later, to help Moore recoup costs.
Also heard that H Clinton's theme is by Celine Dion, a Canadian.
One more question - why did US cut off funds to Palestine when Fatah was still in charge but now that Hamas has pretty much taken over, they're sending in a bunch of money? Talk about closing the barn after the cows are out ..
Another one bites the dust .. to "spend more time with his family"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/19/AR2007061900777.html
..White House budget director, right before the budget showdown with Congress, right as we have an unprecedented deficit and debt
I hear that Moore rolls the credits to a Cat Stevens song
By the way, there is a woman Episocopal priest of 20 years here in Seattle who fifteen months ago also converted to Islam. There is a movement to be multidenominational as well as interdenominational. It is perfectly acceptable to Buddhists for their members to belong to another religion. There is more than one path. Some people think I'm anti-religion. I'm anti hypocrisy and religious arrogance. If people follow the best tenets, then so be it. Unconditional Love, above all. Compassion.
Damn Gitmo will haunt us forever.
What a shameful state this awful president has made us into.
nmp,
They're releasing the embargoed funds to Fatah's West Bank version of Palestine while still keeping Hamas isolated in their West Bank version of Palestine. The point of this little shell game is to strengthen Abbas, who they kinda sorta like, and freeze out the other guys, who they definitely dislike.
Amazing. Just amazing. Thank you for these links.
Impeach, but how?
from Center from American Progress at http://www.americanprogres.org:
The RNC has preserved only 130 e-mails sent to Mr. Rove during President Bush’s first term and no e-mails sent by Mr. Rove prior to November 2003." Of the 37 officials for whom the RNC has retained e-mails, only 15 have e-mail records from before 2006, and, of those, "seven have virtually no e-mails dating to those earlier years."
from TruthOut (which I already deleted):
Anyway, it talks about how Cheney goes all around the world lobbying for us to attack Iran before Bush leaves office .. BEFORE BUSH LEAVES OFFICE ..
These guys can get away with all sorts of stuff in the next couple of years, even as "lame ducks"
Posted by: Otter at June 19, 2007 02:41 PM
That makes sense, but what makes them think they have that type of leverage? I'd say they're running scared. I heard Condi blithering on and it's outrageous.
Particle
by Better Than Ezra
Your pain makes you beautiful, you love to lose control,
And mediocrity's rewarded, so set your standards low.
In an imploding star, or a burned out car, I implore you.
In a carbon-arc or a dim lit park, I implore you.
Suck me in, I'm willing, I get off when you turn on
Let me be your fate. Pour me on, pour me on.
In a country fair or union square, I implore you
In a shrouded face or a spray of mace, I implore you.
I implore you.
Cryptic? Elemental.
You transcend when you succumb.
One last shred of frailty left,
Embedded in our bones.
In an imploding star, or a burned out car, I implore you
In a carbon-arc or a dim lit park, I implore you
So do it again, do it again, do it again.
This is what it means, Particle.
So do it again, do it again, do it again.
This is what it means, Particle.
Stranger than Fiction
Fred "Law and Order" Thompson is going to hook up with Margaret "Iron Lady" Thatcher
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2106706,00.html
Another time bomb .. the knighting of Salmon Rushdie
http://www.guardian.co.uk/pakistan/Story/0,,2106595,00.html
I was reading all the articles I could find on Rovian deleted emails. Wonder what this was fore?
Check this out:
http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=rove.com
The Reverend I spoke of is answering on-line questions this noon about being both a Christian and a Muslim.
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/reader_feedback.php?id=171
Posted by: not my president at June 19, 2007 03:05 PM
But the Muslim world is not doing itself any favor by justifying suicide bombings against supporters of Rushdie.
In any case, a martyr being welcomed by 72 maidens in heaven is the sickest fantasy I've ever heard. From ANY religion.
Posted by: not my president at June 19, 2007 02:57 PM
Ever notice that while Hollywood is thought of as a Democratic safe space, all the active political figures - from Reagan to Thompson, from Ahnuld to Kelsey Grammer - are all Republicans?
"..the sickest fantasy I've ever heard. From ANY religion."
You must not hang out with many Southern Baptists.
I tend to believe any assembly of 72 virgins is a fascinating idea.
Not sure how useful 72 virgins would be to me personally, but its a novel idea.
Do the women get like 72 stable boys?
Better, 72 pool boys...?
Now that would tempt me to convert.
'Clean my filter again Julio. IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!"
Wow.
That totally worked for me.
Posted by: Christy at June 19, 2007 04:28 PM
LOL :)
Seriously though, while Southern Baptists are not that numerous here in SoCal, there are Evangelical Free Church and other reactionary denominations galore in my neighborhood.
Most of them, of course, also worship in the official language of American fascism - Korean.
Yeah, Ally, right -- except for Ben Affleck, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, George Clooney, Aaron Sorkin, Martin Sheen, Sam Waterston, Brad Pitt, Meg Ryan, Barbra Streisand, Sean Penn, Matt Damon, Scarlett Johansson, Janeane Garofolo, Warren Beatty, Rob Reiner, Paul Newman, Jane Fonda, Rosie O'Donnell, Laurie David, Jennifer Anniston, Sheryl Crow, David Geffen, Steven Spielberg, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Joaquin Phoenix, John Cusack, Larry David, George Lopez, Kevin Bacon, and a handful of other such no-name little nobodies, that is...
Posted by: Otter at June 19, 2007 04:34 PM
Jennifer Aniston (no double N), please... (she's my idol, so I do care how her name's spelled...)
But it's the Republicans who are far more vocal and get far more attention.
Well, that's it. It's final-solution sectarian surge-escalation endgame time in Iraq, y'all, and now both they and us are all well and truly screwn:
---------------
78 Killed by Bombing at Baghdad Mosque
BAGHDAD (AP) - A truck bomb struck a Shiite mosque Tuesday in central Baghdad, killing 78 people and wounding more than 200, even as about 10,000 U.S. soldiers northeast of the capital used heavily armored Stryker and Bradley fighting vehicles to battle their way into an al-Qaida sanctuary.
The troops, under cover of attack helicopters, killed at least 22 insurgents in the offensive, the U.S. military said.
The thunderous explosion at the Khulani mosque in the capital's busy commercial area of Sinak sent smoke billowing over concrete buildings, nearly a week after a bombing brought down the twin minarets of a revered Shiite shrine in the northern city of Samarra and two days after officials lifted a curfew aimed at preventing retaliatory violence from that attack.
Gunfire erupted after the blast, which police said occurred in a parking lot near the mosque, causing the outer wall and a building just inside it to crumble.
Police and hospital officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they feared retribution, said at least 78 people were killed and 218 were wounded, adding that the toll could rise as bodies were pulled from the debris.
[snip]
More here: http://apnews.myway.com//article/20070619/D8PS2D480.html
---------------
it may be their hell but it's our handbasket,
Otter
Christy
72 pool boys and I will convert also
We like to be called "Cabana Boys", thank you very little...
Yes, but how about 72 unstable boys instead?
Posted by: monkey at June 19, 2007 05:13 PM
Yo, Cabana Boy, I need another drink...and some more sunscreen on my back, please. ;-)
Me, I'm holding out for 72 Democratic Senators instead...
Posted by: madame defarge at June 19, 2007 05:26 PM
Right there, Mrs. Robinson?
All the talk of pool boys reminds me of the time I was on the beach in Puerto Villarta and a "boy" that worked for the hotel kept fetching margaritas for me, calling me "Senorita" even tho I was in my forties. Little did I know what margaritas and waves can do to one until I tried to find my way back to my hotel room and couldn't remember where it was let alone find it. The "boy" got to walk the staggering Senorita to her hotel room. He was a gentleman, (thank goodness!).
72 stud-muffins? How fast can I get there? (Just kiddin').
Posted by: monkey at June 19, 2007 05:27 PM
ROTFLMAO!
Mrs. Robinson: Benjamin.
Benjamin: Yes?
Mrs. Robinson: Isn't there something you want to tell me?
Benjamin: Tell you?
Mrs. Robinson: Yes.
Benjamin: Well, I want you to know how much I appreciate this. Really.
Mrs. Robinson: The number.
Benjamin: What?
Mrs. Robinson: The room number, Benjamin. I think you ought to tell me that.
Benjamin: Oh, you're absolutely right. It's 568.
Mrs. Robinson: Thank you.
Benjamin: You're welcome. Well... I'll see you later, Mrs. Robinson.
Truth Shall Prevail
Yes - one time in my mid-twenties I went to Mexico (Tijuana) with three other women. We met this good-looking young guy named Sergio who was showing us around but then eventually we wanted to go back to San Diego and we couldn't get rid of him. Finally he said, "You no go. Four womans for me" but we made him go. I still have a picture of all of us somewhere. I would never be able to get by with that outfit I was wearing now nor would I in retrospect wear it to Tijuana even then(short shorts and halter top).
It's me, Grandmother Robinson.
NMP,
Well, you know, looking back on it that was kind of dumb of me. My mate was sunburned and napping in the hotel room while I was out "body surfing" and drinking margaritas. "Always try to amuse yourself", and "Carpe Diem" has been my motto. It was rather dangerous but how can you sieze the day if you never take risks?
Short shorts and a halter top? I saw you summer before last and you could still wear them - NO PROBLEM!!! Me, that's another story. Let's not even go there. My version of a bathing suit these days would probably be like the ones they wore in the twenties. (I know, you guys out there stop your drooling! LOL!!!)
Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at June 19, 2007 05:34 PM
Posted by: not my president at June 19, 2007 05:45 PM
It wasn't Mexico for me, it was San Francisco (and a few cases in Tucson, including a neighbor 30 years older than me), but I've had a fair share of men hitting on me, even with my double-female-symbol necklace and transgender status.
I still have a long way to go though, before I rack up 72 such guys.
Short shorts and a halter top? I saw you summer before last and you could still wear them - NO PROBLEM!!!
Posted by: Truth Shall Prevail at June 19, 2007 05:58 PM
And I can second that...
Well I am off to sweep and mop floors, then settle down to a couple movies I rented last night. One is "Dream Girls" and the other is "The Pursuit of Happiness" with Will Smith. It's supposed to be a true story of a guy who was down and out after 9-11 but made it big on Wall Street.
Not very political, or educational, but, hey, a guy has to veg sometimes.
Oh, NMP, what EXACTLY is the deal between Condi and Cheney? Condi has been looking a bit defensive and rattled on the snooze lately, and with my move and all I lost out on some recent happenings. Spoon feed me just this one time to catch me up on that end of things, would you please? I'm telling you that if you take a day or two or a week away from current events to move you are completely out of the loop in a week's time. Things are happening so fast, and there is so much news.
(You're still a chickita, NMP!) Or, shall I say you're "HOT".? (From a grandma's point of view.)
Posted by: Christy at June 19, 2007 04:28 PM
Actually, I think for the men who dreamt up this version of heaven, the women *also* get 72 virgin females.
72 cowboys anyone?
Actually, I think for the men who dreamt up this version of heaven, the women *also* get 72 virgin females.
Posted by: V at June 19, 2007 06:10 PM
That works out pretty well for someone like me. :)
Posted by: Ally McRepuke at June 19, 2007 06:14 PM
Doesn't suck for me either ;-)
Posted by: Ally McRepuke at June 19, 2007 06:01 PM
72 guys and I would be dead (with a big smile on my face.)
In this town the only guys there are I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. All there is to do in these small towns is church, tv or the bar.
None of the men go to church, and I have been asked out by some men from the bar but didn't make it past the first date because they were too toasted to carry on a conversation by 6:00 in the evening. Slim Picken's. But that's okay with me.
(But don't ever think that because I'm old I'm dead cuz it just isn't so.)
All the fun aside (and we do need it), what can we do to help the women in Rick's thread header?
The people who are working night and day to end this nightmare--whether it is Iraq, Iran, GITMO, corruption in our government (and they all link up anyway)--need help: money, dissemination, support.
Stuck inside of Mobile, with the DC blues instead...
Karen
"Actually, I think for the men who dreamt up this version of heaven, the women *also* get 72 virgin females."
Well...MY GOD...
What in the hell kinda joke is that?
I enjoy looking at the pool boys, but I don't have the energy to make them fetch anymore.
"what can we do to help the women in Rick's thread header?"
Money, money and more money.
Keep them going as long as possible.
Did you hear Mayor Bloomberg is switching to Independent (from Republican, and was a lifelong Democrat before that), to run for President in 2008? What a toxic stew.
TSP
I'll review this further when I get home! ;)
NEW REPORT SHOWS BUSH'S PRESIDENTIAL SIGNING STATEMENTS HAVE BEEN USED TO NULLIFY LAWS
By Brian Beutler, Media Consortium
A Government Accountability Office report confirms that Bush's use of presidential signing statements have the effect of nullifying the law in question in about 30 percent of cases.
http://www.alternet.org/stories/54543/
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/06/19/sherrod-browns-mea-culpa-on-mca/
Sherrod Brown’s Mea Culpa on MCA
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070619/ap_on_el_pr/bloomberg_politics
NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg leaves GOP
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg on Tuesday switched his party status from Republican to unaffiliated, a stunning move certain to be seen as a prelude to an independent presidential bid that would upend the 2008 race.
The billionaire former CEO, who was a lifelong Democrat before he switched to the GOP for his first mayoral run, said the change in voter registration does not mean he is running for president.
~~~~~
Strategists say he could mount a third-party campaign by stressing that he is a two-term mayor in a Democratic city and that he built his reputation as a political independent, social moderate and fiscal conservative.
Throughout his 5 1/2 years as mayor, Bloomberg has often been at odds with his party and Bush. He supports gay marriage, abortion rights, gun control and stem cell research, and raised property taxes to help solve a fiscal crisis after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
{More on link.}
Ally, Truth
Thanks for the compliment but I don't think I'll try for the short shorts - not with my bruised legs from kids kicking me and my bug bites from gardening. I do get whistled at by passersby when gardening but then when I turn around and they see I'm their mom's age they are embarrassed (I'm talking from quite a distance) LOL.
Truth
About Condi and Cheney, it just seems to me that her Deputy and Cheney have been doing some of the State Department stuff, not just her, and I am afraid about the drumbeat to war with Iran. I accidentally deleted the TruthOut article that made me all paranoid about war with Iran again but NonnyO probably has it. Can't remember what source it was from. I am not super "up" on the news but have read a few too many Seymour and Palast articles and even some by conservatives who don't go for the neocon philosophy of intervening in other countries' affairs & running up our deficit.
Well, off to hit the road - long day! Really will read the thread header better and think about what Karen asked (what can we do?) Personally, lately I've been thinking one of the best things our family can do is try to decrease our carbon footprint! I may get involved with a program where I can have a project at work and I would like to make them do more recycling and conservation of power. & there is still alot we can do at home. Then there is the matter of who to donate to and how to volunteer time.
As far as being serious, I can't maintain that - life is too short and we were put on earth to have fun, so will have to balance that with all the rest. It's sobering with so much tragedy around us but we can not burn ourselves out or we can't help anyone. Also we shouldn't just sit at our computers all the time, but I really don't think we do that.
I just found out that my aunt and uncle helped with the cleanup after Hurricane Katrina and they are in their 70s!
Giuliani's S. Carolina chairman on cocaine charges
COLUMBIA, South Carolina (AP) -- South Carolina Treasurer Thomas Ravenel, a former real estate developer who became a rising political star after his election last year, was indicted Tuesday on federal cocaine charges.
Ravenel is also the state chairman for former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's presidential campaign.
Ravenel has stepped down from his volunteer responsibilities with the campaign, according to a statement released by Mark Campbell, Giuliani's political director.
Campbell said the campaign has no information about the accusations pending against Ravenel.
The millionaire is accused of buying less than 500 grams of the drug to share with other people in late 2005, U.S. Attorney Reggie Lloyd said.
more...
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/19/treasurer.indicted.ap/index.html
NMP,
I learned long ago that when I was serious all the time and helping others every minute of every day that I did experience burn-out - and that didn't in the end help anybody, in fact for me it was a hinderance. I learned that I have to take time to smell the flowers, because being burned out is ugly. Also, if all I dwell on is the corruption 24/7 I am not in a balance where I can help anyone. Balance is the key, if we can each ever find it. Some don't need it, but I do. I have alot more to give when I am rested and my own vital needs are met - I don't expect others to meet them for me, but I do make sure to take care of myself. I had to learn that the hard way after many years of putting everybody else in the universe ahead of myself. You have more to give from a full cup than an empty one. At least I have found it to be true in my life. Some of you energizer bunnies can keep going and going and going, and I applaud you for that. That's not me, however.
NMP,
If you have any more on the Condi/Cheney thing please email it to me, okay?
I did catch a snippet that said that Cheney was saber-rattling again and Condi was saying that diplomacy is better regarding Iran.
TSP
Will do .. I'll keep my eyes and ears open.
TSP
I am same as regards energy. I have never missed a day of work in 9 years at one place of employment but I also don't take on a bunch of things that are not in my job description, even if they might be creative, fulfilling, etc. - unless I have surplus time and energy. I say nurture yourself first and pay yourself first.
TSP
Wow did I luck out .. here is the Condi vs Cheney, at least some of it. We need to figure out what might be going on behind the scenes. Condi at least has probably had to meet with a greater variety of people and may be less biased. Not that I trust her one bit. Cheney I see as being completely biased and looking at Iran much as he looks at quail (and his surroundings). Reckless.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/16/washington/16diplo.html?hp
Her being smarter than him never kept him from doing anything he damn well pleased.
Posted by: not my president at June 19, 2007 10:11 PM
Thanks!!! Things happen and change so fast if you miss a day or a few days you miss alot.
I have a friend who really thinks Condi is in on it too.
She sure looked rattled yesterday on the clip I saw.
Yes, behind the scenes. Bush and Condi vs. Cheney? Wonder where Rove plays into all the war happenings. He was hired to get Jr. elected, but then as you know he was promoted to a chief council of the prez. The tin man is in one room of the White House, the scarecrow in another, and the lion in another. Maybe Rove is the wizard. Dubya might be Toto. Wish I could wake up from this dream in Kansas.
Posted by: Ally McRepuke at June 19, 2007 03:59 PM
Yes, I have noticed that. And let's not forget the forgetable Sonny Bono.
Chuck in Houston
Otter:
Posted by: Otter at June 19, 2007 04:34 PM
But how many of them have held elective office?
Chuck in Houston
Chuck,
Which, how many, and/or who/when they may or may not of have managed to be able to hold on to and/or get a grip on office in the face of Bu$hCo-induced systemic electile dysfunction is not a subject for me to speculate upon here in this august and high-minded company, thankyouverymuch.
Posted by: not my president at June 19, 2007 07:54 PM
Interesting. I have a copy of June 25, 2007's Time magazine. It has a picture of Michael Bloomberg and Arnold Schwarzenegger on the cover with a caption that says "How a billionaire mayor and a celebrity governor are showing what it takes to get things done. - by Michael Grunwald.
(Oh, correction, Karl Rove WAS the domestic-policy adviser. Now the title belongs to Karl Zinsmeister.)
Good article. A quote:" Schwarzenegger signed the U.S.'s first cap on greenhouse gases, including unprecedented fuel-efficiency standards for California cars. He's already tricked out two of his five Hummers, one to run on biofuel and another on hydrogen. The feds have done nothing on fuel efficiency in two decades, but 11 states will follow California's lead if Bush grants a waiver. After signing a climate deal with Ontario-on the same day as his stem-cell deal - he said he had a message for Detroit: "Get off your butt". He had a similar message for Washington. "Eventually, the Federal Government is going to get on board," he said. "If not, we're going to sue."
Bloomberg is so concerned about Washington's neglect of the working poor that he's raised $50 million in private money, including some of his own millions, to fund a pilot workfare program.
Schwarzenegger is pushing a universal health-insurance plan and hopes to negotiate a deal with Democrats this summer. "All the great ideas are coming from state and local governments," Schwarzenegger told Time. "We're not going to wait for Big Daddy to take care of us."
Maybe we could learn something from these two, and try to elect responsible honest candidates for local and state offices. Rove and his ilk can't possibly be everywhere.
All my state's Congressmen are Dems, but have been disappointing.
By the way, quoting from an email I received earlier this evening (sometimes word gets out and this is a good thing, ahem):
-----
Rick, thank you very much for putting in the good effort on this! It is so good to have the kind words of support. I just forwarded it to Ellen as well.
Doris Tennant, Esq.
Tennant Lubell, LLC
TSP
I think Cheney's angle is always OIL. & he likes violent stuff, but from the armchair, the Green Zone or where you just get out of the limo and rustle the bush a little.
Re Schwartzenegger, he has never been a totally socially conservative Republican but more fiscally so, like the kind we have across the lake from Seattle. They like to count their pennies and they don't like to pay taxes. As for the war and the poor, they just kind of look the other way. My problem with them is that they don't dissociate themselves from Bush enough and some don't seem to have much of a conscience. It would be very hard for me to vote for someone like that, even if we are closer on some issues. They don't go far enough.
The way I see it, the biggest difference between Democrats and Republicans is that one group thinks more in terms of the group, the other more in terms of the individual when it comes to taking care of people. If you are thinking in terms of a larger group, you will want a social safety net so no one will starve. If you are thinking in terms primarily of your family, you will hoard some food and protect it with guns. It's a difference in emphasis.
That takes us back to the four dimensions - liberal, conservative, libertarian and authoritation. An authoritarian liberal, a libertarian liberal, an authoritarian conservative and a libertarian conservative would all be possibilites. Then it separates again depending on which issue. Some people are at one place on the four-dimensional spectrum for one issue, and at another place with another.
It's going to be interesting if Bloomberg does step in for 2008 as an Independent and what if he chose Lieberman as his running mate? I have a feeling that would be a little too east coast for some people.
I also just read in the New Yorker that Hilary Clinton could choose LA's mayor as her VP. Had not thought about that but he was surprised how much she knew about him and he did endorse her. He's Mayor of the 2nd largest city, which has a very early primary this year and a heck of a lot of electoral votes, absolutely crucial.
As for the Governor/Mayor thing, we experience that all the time here in WA, where we do some things locally (city, country or state level) because the feds are too slow, don't have the money or we don't like the way they think.
Did you hear Mayor Bloomberg is switching to Independent (from Republican, and was a lifelong Democrat before that), to run for President in 2008? What a toxic stew.
Posted by: not my president at June 19, 2007 07:54 PM
Well, he sure won't be able to be *The Decider* will he?
How does the race end up with 2 opposing candidates for the presidency if there are independents in the mix with dems and repubs? How are the final candidates chosen? And by whom?
Bush to veto stem cell bill Wednesday
But president will urge work on other stem cell lines
Updated: 1 hour, 50 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - President Bush has chosen to use his veto pen three times — twice on the stem cell issue where politics, ethics and science collide.
Pushing back against the Democratic-led Congress, Bush plans to veto a bill Wednesday that would have eased restraints on federally funded embryonic stem cell research, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said.
At the same time, Bush will issue an executive order directing the Health and Human Services Department to promote research into cells that, like human embryonic stem cells, also hold the potential of regenerating into different types of cells that might be used to battle disease.
Democrats made the stem cell legislation Bush promised to veto a top priority when they took control of the House and Senate in January. They do not, however, have enough votes to override a veto.
'Ethical line'
In his veto threat, the president accused Democrats of recycling an old measure that he already vetoed and argued that the bill would mean American taxpayers would — for the first time — be compelled to support the deliberate destruction of human embryos.
“The president supports and encourages stem cell research, including using embryonic lines, as long as it does not involve creating, harming or destroying embryos,” Fratto said. “That is an ethical line that should not be crossed.”
Fratto said Bush would outline an initiative that could make federal funding available for research on additional “pluripotent” stem cells — ones that can give rise to any kind of cell in the body except those required to develop a fetus.
The National Institutes of Health says these stem cells offer the prospect of having a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s diseases, spinal cord injury, stroke, burns, heart disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis and other conditions.
Scientists were first able to conduct research with embryonic stem cells in 1998, the NIH says. There were no federal funds for the work until Bush announced on Aug. 9, 2001, that his administration would make the funds available for lines of cells that already were in existence.
Currently, states and private organizations are permitted to fund embryonic stem cell research, but federal support is limited to cells that existed as of Aug. 9, 2001. The latest bill is aimed at lifting that restriction.
Weighty implications
The science aside, the issue has weighty political and ethical implications.
Public opinion polls show strong support for the research, and it could return as an issue in the 2008 elections.
Opponents of the latest stem cell measure insisted that the use of embryonic stem cells was the wrong approach on moral grounds — and possibly not even the most promising one scientifically. These opponents, who applaud Bush’s veto, cite breakthroughs involving medical research conducted with adult stem cells, umbilical cord blood and amniotic fluid, none of which involve the destruction of a human embryo.
This will be the third veto of Bush’s presidency. His first occurred last year when he rejected legislation to allow funding of additional lines of embryonic stem cells — a measure that passed over the objections of Republicans then in control. The second legislation he vetoed would have set timetables for U.S. troop withdrawals from Iraq.
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid appealed to Bush on Tuesday to put his veto pen back in his pocket. Reid said the measure acknowledges the ethical issues at stake and offers even stronger research guidelines than exist under the president’s current policy.
Pelosi: 'He will say 'no' to hope'
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi used Bush’s veto threat as a reason to send out an e-mail letter soliciting contributions to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee to help elect more Democrats.
“By vetoing a bill that expands stem cell research, the president will say ’no’ to the more than 70 percent of Americans who support it, ’no’ to our Democratic Congress’ fight for progress, and ’no’ to saving lives and to potential cures for diseases such as diabetes and Parkinson’s,” Pelosi wrote. “He will say ’no’ to hope.”
In light of the veto, Sen. Norm Coleman, R-Minn., who planned to be at the White House event, sought support for a stem cell bill he is sponsoring. It has passed the Senate but has not yet been taken up by the House.
“My stem cell bill, which passed the Senate with broad bipartisan support, offers a clear alternative for our colleagues in the House to significantly expand federally funded stem cell research, while ensuring no taxpayer dollars are used for the destruction of human embryos,” Coleman said.
Coleman urged Democrats who favored the bill Bush was to veto to get behind his legislation.
“Those who support the stem cell research bill ... are at a definitive crossroads,” he said. “Do they seek to advance lifesaving research for millions of Americans suffering from serious disease or do they, in fact, prefer to keep stem cell research at a political stalemate?”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19323446/
There is not suppossed to be only two candidates.
Democrats and repellicans, the dominant parties, both prefer we only two choices, because it cuts up thier odds to 50/50.
Ralf Nader is still being blamed for being the spoiler in 2000.
The dem and repell candidate are choosen through a mini party election of sorts, before the elections.
For example, Edwards and Obama and Hillary are all dems that want to be president. During the primary elections dems in each state get to vote for which one gets the nomination.
The one with the most votes gets it.
Indys and libertarians and greens are all the very overlooked 3rd tier, and they usually only put up one candidate each and apparently if they have enough money and signatures they can maintain a foothold on the ballot.
Here is the truth about the indy parties. Both the dem and repell parties use them as tools against each other.
Like with Ralf Nader, republicans were handing him money to stay in the race, because they knew his voters would throw off Gores final total.
Thanks Christy. It's very similar to our system, in that the Independents and greens and minor parties are all lobbied for support on issues that major parties might not have a majority on. That is the only similarity. We have compulsory voting. And preferential voting which means the party who gets the most 1st votes, isn't necessarily going to wind government.
Our system has some dangerous pitfalls for a candidate.
There have been many big time players who won the primaries and suddenly the entire party has to fall in line behind them, and they implode and fracture the party badly.
Gary Heart was a good example. Scandal dripped off of him.
John Kerry too, to a point. Kerry had more support at the base than most, but georgies dirty tricks tied him all up into knots.
For a minute, I was going Obama, then I realized that only Edwardsmakes me feel 100% comfortable.
Obama hasa lot going for him, but he is 1) Very unpredictable and 2) His record in the Senate so far bothers me.
Once he became a Senator, he became... hesitant.
Edwards is my guy. I could die in my own bed completely confident my nation was being fairly and competantly run.
When Edwards slips off the chain in those moments that remind you he was one of the best trial lawyers in the country, he is a beautiful sight to behold.
What a player player player.
I sincerely hope he knocks all of the rest on their backsides.
There are already snickers about this as 'political grandstanding',, I think the dems should listen closely to what Edwards is saying.
"Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards Sunday warned Iowa voters about what he perceives as the perils of nominating a candidate who down-ticket Democrats in some parts of the nation may decline to appear with in their own campaign events.
Speaking in Carroll, Edwards made the observation after saying there are “three of us who are most likely to be the Democratic nominee.”
“It’s not just a question of who you like,” Edwards said. “It’s not just a question of whose vision you are impressed with. It’s also a question of who is most likely to win the general election. It’s a pretty simple thing. Who will be a stronger candidate in the general election here in the State of Iowa? Who can go to other parts of the country when we have swing candidates running for the Congress and the Senate? Is the candidate going to have to say, ‘Don’t come here. Down come here and campaign with me. I can’t win if you campaign with me.’”
He added later, “I think it’s just a reality that I can campaign anyplace in America.”
He is right.
Let's say Hillary wins the primaries, you can forget swinging republican strongholds to blue.
It will solidify their hold. I am not sure many realize just how well the noise machine against her worked.
Unless she has one sweet trick up her sleeve, she will alienate entire regions, like the Deep South.
I doubt she has that trick because the woman is surprisingly politically tone deaf.
If the dems elect her as the nomination the party will fracture so badly it may never recover.
Edwards and Obama both have mass appeal, BUT, Edwards is the only democrat I have ever heard of that 100% of republicans can live with as well.
Obama is a party star. Edwards is a cross over phenomenon and that is exactly what we need to once again unify our people.
I am tired of the partisian bullsh*t.
"100% of republicans can live with"
Ok maybe not cheney, but he is not a real republican anyway.
Woz
When there is an Independent, they never seem to win and they end up taking votes away from the Democrats and Republicans in an unpredictable way. It's interesting now because there are about as many Independents as Democrats and Republicans. They could go either way. Someone like Mayor Bloomfield is more liberal on social issues, kind of like Governor Schwartezenegger of California, but technically has been a Republican so in many ways supported Bush.
This country is polarized so maybe a middle way would be good but it's hard to see how it could work without alot of loud dissatisfaction from both sides. We will probably end up with some kind of a moderate anyway. Our liberals seem to be running from the middle and our moderates from the fringes, during most of our primaries. Then they may switch after the primaries, and their most vocal, early adopter constituents feel betrayed. They weren't antiwar enough (heard from the left) or they were too soft on social issues r/t gays, women etc. (heard from the right).
The only country I can think of that is as politically wierd as US is probably France with all its revolutions. Except here we just talk - we never actually "storm the Bastille" - not really. We have almost the same Constitution, in fact they based theirs on ours and they were founded around the same time. At least in France, amount of campaign funds are restricted and the same for candidates, with half refunded by the government (at least that's what I read yesterday).
Do you know that I am up 1-1/2 hour early because I could not sleep? In a way it was the cats, the crows, the Canadian geese, the cop cars and the cold, in exactly that order. It was also the thoughts running endlessly through my brain:
What if Gore had held out longer?
What if we had signed Kyoto?
What if we had anticipated and stopped 9/11? (Having just read a long article about George Tenet of the CIA last night in the New Yorker, I believe we could and should have been able to do this)
What if we hadn't gone into Iraq? Would the domes of the mosques still be standing? Would we have a trillion dollars to spend on alternative energies? Would we have really needed Homeland Security?
What if we had never gotten involved in the internal politics of Iran and Iraq back in the day?
What if we had never armed Iran or Iraq, either one?
What if we had left well enough alone?
What if we had bolstered the levies of New Orleans?
What if we had gone ahead with tsunami detection including in the Indonesia region - helped more with this?
What if we had helped more with actual impending humanitarian disasters like East Timor, Rwanda, Darfur?
What if we had put more into eradicating AIDS rather than promoting abstinence?
What if we promoted abstract reasoning in our young people?
What if we concentrated on meth labs instead of medical marijuana?
What if we joined the rest of the developed world and made it so that people here could have health care?
What if we tried to decrease our prison population?
What if people who worry about when life starts worried as much about preventing things like that creepo in England who was molesting children live on the internet, to requests or pregnant women from getting blown up in war?
I had to get up because I was making myself crazy and obviously couldn't sleep. The crows are making the exact pissed off sound that I would make if my vocal tract would allow it.
Christy
I have one addition. See if you agree. Theoretically, the Dems in each state pick electors but it's Florida or other first states who actually decide because when there are enough electoral votes, they just stop. So really only Ohio and Florida matter. LOL (not laughing though)
Christy
How H Clinton would fare may depend on whether our President is elected by the people or the corporate world. I don't know anymore. Who is Halliburton's candidate?
Woz
Yes - we do not have a coalition government. We have some loud people in Congress on the fringes but unless they can get alot of people to vote their way, they're silenced pretty much. (I'm thinking like Kucinich, McDermott, Congressional Black caucus etc.) Ted Kennedy is probably one of the liberals with the most pull. Kerry has been working really hard in there too - went right back to work after being badly cheated!
Some things require a majority, like 51%, and there are less Democrats so it means swinging them all and a few Republicans. That's next to impossible. If there is a tie (since there are 100 in the Senate), "Go F Yourself" Cheney is the tie-breaker. Some things require 60 votes and then it's really difficult. People scream bloody murder when the Democrats fail in such a situation, but they aren't white knights that can save us. Even if all 100 of them were Democrats, they would still have to change our entire system. First of all, there are way too many corporate lobbyists. Secondly, we don't have a campaign finance reform system that has worked. Thirdly, there is no proof that our elections aren't being electronically stolen left and right (along with voter intimidation and suppression).
Some democracy, some example.
We are an example of how to be a dying empire.
Ok got to go do things like brush my teeth.
"Except here we just talk - we never actually "storm the Bastille" - not really."
You mean...
Not yet we haven't.
France was a much older nation than we before it finally came around to that point. Compared to them we are not even babies, we are embryos.
No... a zygote.
Had to check my email
Here is an American school where NO PHYSICAL CONTACT OF ANY KIND IS ALLOWED.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/17/AR2007061701179.html
This same policy ought to be used for our current government with respect to other countries.
Christy
But the world has speeded up - we don't have to have the guillotine. We have the electric chair.
It think it's time.
Can't laugh off Bloomberg - he is a billionaire and he's not messing with Iowa and New Hampshire. He's been going to CA, which has the most electoral votes and the earliest primary ever. He could be another Perot (serious contender).
And we do have Madame Defarge to be in the front row knitting and counting the heads as they fall. Hmmm
You know, during our first years and the Civil War, our presidents did some crazy stuff to sieze power and maintain it.
All of them did so, I believe, we all believe, with the clear intent of CREATING a nation.
We as a people have never had to actually deal with a suppossed 'president' who is deliberately trying to dismantle that nation.
The radical past was always about sheer raw power, military power, political power. They built more than they destroyed.
We, as a nation have never had to deal with a literal TYRANT.
The French lived with tyranny and warfare for centuries before they finally started chopping peoples heads off.
We have only just began to deal with the realities of EMPIRE. Our Constitution has held through many crisis before, but ultimately it can not work if it can not be applied.
Even the most power hungry of presidents before respected and defferred to the US Constitution.
georgie is trying to literally do away with it all together. We have never had a man in charge like that before, and he has already left so much death in his wake it is surreal.
Storming the Bastille was not an act of Revolution. It was an act of desperation.
When they picked up pitchforks and headed to the palace, THAT was thier first true act of Revolution.
We have made the French tremble, the English waffle to our strength, the Russians and Chinese don't dare antagonize us too much. The Mexican military is a joke and the Canadians are outnumbered 300 to 1. Chavez talks smack but he ain't running up in here any time soon.
But we have never before had to deal with and toss off a tyrant.
Who knows what we may wind up storming.
Is US ready for H Clinton? Post your opinion here and a guy who wrote a book about it will be on-line to answer questions.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/452239f0-1daf-11dc-89f7-000b5df10621.html
About Bloomberg - he is worth $13,000,000,000. He could pay for about 1/8 of the cost of the Iraq war for a year, singlehandedly. Money talks in this country. He wouldn't even have to declare til he finishes his term in 2009.
Christy
You are right.
from the Take Back American conference that's going on - Obama, Richardson, Edwards
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/19/dems.activists.ap/index.html
Bastille Day
by Rush
There's no bread, let them eat cake
There's no end to what they'll take
Flaunt the fruits of noble birth
Wash the salt into the earth
But they're marching to bastille day, la guillotine will claim
Her bloody prize, free the dungeons of the innocent the king
Will kneel, and let his kingdom rise
Bloodstained velvet, dirty lace
Naked fear on every face
See them bow their heads to die
As we would bow as they rode by
And we're marching to bastille day la guillotine will claim
Her bloody prize sing, o choirs of cacophony the king has
Kneeled, to let his kingdom rise
Lessons taught but never learned
All around us anger burns
Guide the future by the past
Long ago the mould was cast
For they marched up to bastille day la guillotine -- claimed
Her bloody prize hear the echoes of the centuries power isn't
All that money buys
Upon learning that the Bastille had been taken, King Louis XVI, who was residing at Versailles, was reported to have asked an informer: "Is this a revolt?" and La Rochefoucauld-Liancourt said, "No, Sire, it is a revolution." Little did Louis know that the mob's next plan was to march to Versailles, and take him away with them as well.
http://library.thinkquest.org/C006257/revolution/storming_of_bastille.shtml
Posted by: monkey at June 20, 2007 09:21 AM
-----
Argh. Friggin bastillards, see how they get.
(Oh, yeah, and relatively but not entirely **new thread**, y'all...)
N.P.R. - Hillary: A Duty to Mislead?: Politics and Iraq War
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=10947954
All Things Considered, June 11, 2007 · Democrats are telling voters that if they are elected, all U.S. troops will be pulled out of Iraq. But as Sen. Hillary Clinton privately told a senor military adviser, she knows there will be some troops there for decades. It's an example of how in some cases, politics can force dishonesty.