DOCUMENTING

Karen
You have definitely inspired Ken and I to do some movie nights. We used to do it years ago when we used 16 mm from the library!!
There is also something here in a church basement that is really popular. It's called "Meaningful Movie Night."

nmp,

I think we have to think of ourselves as teachers and work to educate voters. We CAN do it with popcorn--or even Jiffy corn muffins!

"I remember when the main objectives of this site were to promote fair elections & free media."

We have been doing it for years to virtually no effect.

Our elections are still going to be highjacked, and the media still is not telling the full truth.

It is only natural a group of people as diverse as this group will often discuss other things.

Me, too, Im bush avoidant right now.

Iraqi death toll now at est. 1.2 million.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg-iraq14sep14,1,1207545.story?coll=la-news-a_section&ctrack=1&cset=true

Christy,

It is very difficult to keep going, but I think we must. The only alternative is giving up.

Every day offers opportunities to educate, even if only in the tiniest of ways.

I hope everyone watches the trailers for the above films; there is plenty of information in those. We can keep sharing, despite our weariness.

It does feel like the only thing left to do is dig a grave and fall in it.

So many people dead, wounded, tortured, maimed, and here we are, banging our heads against a brick wall and annoyed with each other and the never ending one step forward, twelve back.

Watching those trailers so far just confirms how very screwed we are. But your right, we can't just give up.

I don't think any of us will give up, but it is hard now to see how any of us can win this fight.

The media is right now railroading us into attacking Iran. We have to find a way to shut them down or atleast shut them up. None of this could have been done to Us without them.

Any other target for mass focus at this point is almost certainly a waste of time we can not afford to lose.

Addressing the thread header:

Two very good documentaries about Vietnam and war which, I think, apply to the Iraq war are

YEAR OF THE PIG (1968) although this film was done before Nixon was elected in 1968 or the campaign of 1968 had begun in full force, it foreshadows the American withdrawal from Vietnam and demonstrates how poorly most of the Congress - with some remarkable exceptions who are highlighted in the film - and the American people grasped the situation in Vietnam.

THE FOG OF WAR - this is basically a biography/conversation with Robert McNamara who recounts all of his wartime experiences - WWII, Korea, Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam. It is not as powerful and interesting as Year of the Pig but it is a very good history of warfare in the 20th century.

hello im christy's son christian and i need to know about bein a pacifist because the war now is changing me and i dont think that i can deal with the violince in the war and deal with it here in our streets and homes so any one pls tell me about bien a pacifist

i apologize for the misspellig

Welcome Christian!

Educating yourself about Gandhi might be a good way to begin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha

More is here:
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/architects-of-peace/Gandhi/essay.html

And there is a short film that might be a good start: http://www.nyc-dop.com/gandhi/100years/minimovie.html

thank you Karen,i will check it now.

neocons attack moveon, but are silent regarding Boehners comment calling stating our brave soldiers are making little sacrifice in Iraq, which is shameful. How long did it take for them to jump down Kerry's throat last year driving him from running for president.

Reading Time magazine about JFK who constantly critized Curtis LeMay and the miltary for being too trigger happy. Somehow we are not allowed to question the military without being labeled as antimilitary. This from the folks who brought us Walter Reed.

Patraeus to run for President?

"According to a report in London's Independent newspaper by the reliable Middle East observer Patrick Cockburn, the U.S. military viceroy in Iraq would like very much to return from his mission and -- like the Supreme Commander of Allied forces in Europe during World War II and of North Atlantic Treaty Organization in its aftermath -- mount a bid for the White House.

snip

"Petraeus has apparently been so open in expressing his "long-term interest in running for the US presidency" that Sabah Khadim, a former senior adviser at Iraq's Interior Ministry who worked closely with the general in Baghdad, recalls, "I asked him if he was planning to run in 2008 and he said, 'No, that would be too soon'."

thank you Karen,i think im getting the basics of the whole thing, i think if everyone was one well you know but i know thats never going to happen with the war and everything i get so mad about it,i often hear "what started the war?",or "why are we even fighting?" noone really knows any more....about anything.But i thank you again it was really helpful.

I am sorry, bubba, but you are wrong about the Boehner comment. It was incorrectly reported as it was missing the beginning of the question. Thus, his answer seemed to be in response to the causalties rather than the large dollars spent. I don't love the guy, but people need to have their comments quoted in context...then attacked, if appropriate.

Here is the entire quote, you tell me if Edwards or Obama or Hillary had said this whether the neocons would be totally silent today. When you convince me of that I will shut up about it.

BLITZER: Mr. Leader, here's the question. How much longer will the U.S. taxpayers have to shell out $2 billion a week or $3 billion a week as some now are suggesting the cost is going to endure? The loss in blood, the Americans who are killed every month, how much longer do you think this commitment, this military commitment is going to require?

BOEHNER: I think General Petraeus outlined it pretty clearly. We're making success. We need to firm up those successes. We need to continue our effort here because, Wolf, long term, the investment that we're making today will be a small price if we're able to stop al Qaeda here, if we're able to stabilize the Middle East, it's not only going to be a small price for the near future, but think about the future for our kids and their kids."

Boehner clearly is talking about Money for the war and the LOSS OF BLOOD...the"investment we're making will be a small price(he didn't say sacrifice) but calling it a small price in blood is dispicable. I din't hear Wolfe come to the defense of JK for a comment far less egregious.

Kos 5678
I donate to the McDermott Legal Fund, which is in part related to my opinion of Boehner. I agree it is best to prevent relevant context when discussing anything.

Christian
Good to see you here with your questions! My son followed the same path and is now 26, and same with my husband, who is now 56. We need to follow our hearts. Killing is wrong but people will do many things to justify it.

One thing you can do is Google for information on "conscientious objectors."

levitra wwwboard vs viagra http://viagra-vs-levitra.flybb.ru >viagra levitra vs forums

Someone recently referred on here to NPR as "mainstream media" and I suppose it is in that it is national and the largest public radio network, though according to Pew's study of media usage, it has a majority of Democratic listeners, just as Fox cable television news has a majority of Republic listeners. Media usage patterns differ by both party & age demographic.

Now I am wondering about internet provider news, such as the headlines you see when you go to your internet provider main webpage (such as Comcast, Yahoo, AOL etc.) They are probably considered "mainstream media" as far as "new media" (internet news, on-line newspapers etc.)
but may be different from television news in terms of demographics of who is primarily on-line vs primarily in front of the tv. (Though I realize it is not uncommon to blog while in front of the tube, as any tour through the political junkie blogosphere will attest).

Yet there are many internet news readers who do not go to blogs much, and I do find references to people like myself who do not depend on tv news hardly at all.

In summary, I think that I would consider the Comcast homepage "mainstream media," given that people like Time/Warner tend to own the internet providers. The last three stories they headlined re. Iraq were negative (ie. took a negative interpretation of Bush's speech last night).

One story on TruthOut had a headline that said Bush's speech was "full of contradictions." I listened to the whole thing, on radio, so was able to be more attentive to content via not having to watch his horrible body language but only having to hear his linguistic and vocal quirks (which are considerable!)

A speech like that is not even intended for domestic consumption or world consumption but still has to hold up to scrutiny. It's intended to swing as many Republican Senators as possible over to his side, especially people who are up for election such as the wavering and untrustworthly Norm Coleman of Minnesota.

I try to listen to the propaganda as though I don't know who the man is other than that he is the President of the United States. It totally does not work for me, because when I was a kid, the president could still do things like shake hands and hold babies. We have this rube reading lines, almost scarier than early Alzheimer's Reagan, who many of us had diagnosed in our minds before it was made public.

I know that Americans have elected cowboy actors, wrestlers and body builders before, but how did it ever happen that this clown got into a position where he could even have an election stolen for him?

Where is the Democratic answer ad to Boehner's comment about "small price to pay?" The world is supposed to be aghast cuz Bushie's latest sycophant lied to cover his bosse's heinie, and he got called on it. I not only wouldn't take it back, I'd take out a full page ad reiterating the point, and have every democrat in Congress sign the damn thing...

Why do Democrats continually let these a**holes get away with this crap?

AAAAARRRRGGGGGHHH!!!!

On Boehner & his "botched joke," if he wasn't serious.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709130005?f=h_latest

Boycott all television network news & sponsors.

This is all I can find and it doesn't open.

Dems demand apology from Rep. Boehner
ImediNews, Georgia - 8 hours ago
WASHINGTON, Sept. 13 (UPI) — Top Democrats Thursday demanded House Minority Leader John Boehner, R-Ohio, apologize for apparently calling the Iraq War a ...

Is there some kind of blackout?

Victoria Ellen you had it right and this summarizes it:

"CNN did not re-air Boehner's comments, or provide any discussion of the controversy that followed them."

JK's botched joke was 24/7 on every media you could imagine. We should be complaining to CNN.

The question should be framed: What would Boehner be saying today if Edwards, Obama or Hillary had made that exact comment.

My Congressman, who Boehner has been been trying to sue and ruin for more than a decade even though he himself is wrapped in scandal, was admonished for making fun of Bush's plan in Congress and using the phrase "kick ass," which was considered profanity and beneath the decorum of Congress.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003877348_dcnotebook10m.html

It's amazing what is considered immoral these days, but torture, invasion and plundering are just fine.

He posted that under my name.

12:57 PM

Sorry about that. And for his horrible spelling. He got jumped for it. My Space IMs are not the same.

On the other hand Karen.

Thank you. I never would have actually thought to make him read about Gandhi.

You just turned him into a Gandhi fan.

BOEHNER: I think General Petraeus outlined it pretty clearly. We're making success. We need to firm up those successes. We need to continue our effort here because, Wolf, long term, the investment that we're making today will be a small price if we're able to stop al Qaeda here, if we're able to stabilize the Middle East, it's not only going to be a small price for the near future, but think about the future for our kids and their kids."

@@@@@@

That's all we need is to be lectured by a frickin' Chickenhawk Republican.... about "investing" in war...

Has anyone bothered to mention the collateral cost of 1/2 a million to a million civilian deaths? We don't care about that because those are Iraqis...?

This seems morally indefensible.

Karen or anybody what should I say when classmates when thay say or ask about the war such as "What are the reasons for Bush sending young men to places over seas to die?"or "When is it going to be over?",and just plain"Why?!"

Young men not much older than me are getting
killed for reasons that they may have no clue.

It kills me inside,I hate the feeling.

Christian,

I said ask anything, but you asked the 3 questions about this war that are almost impossible to answer using the words of casual conversation.

That is why talking points come to replace individual logic, because catch phrases are easier, cleaner.

There are no easy answers to your questions.

Christian,

What to say to those questions....

Can there truly be anything to say? I think so many of us here didn't think anyone would be so evil as to send young men and women to die. It's hard to grasp the idea that they would outright lie, set up facts, spin and sell it like a commercial...and that they would do all this so that they could make more money off of oil for their family and friends.

It's so hard to grasp even for those of us who already understand the evil heart and corruption of those people.

But how can someone just entering 'age' begin to understand that when they were 12, an evil man (group (PNAC)) began something that would change the world for the worst. Oddly, as evil ad OBL is, and his action did change the world for the worst, I am not referring to OBL. Because on 9-11, every single country was at our side, in agony with us, and we had for one instant a chance to make worldwide peace for a really long time!

So for people who didn't really 'come to age' during 9-11 it's difficult to grasp how we were brainwashed and terrorized into supporting something that was just completely bogus.

I know when I came to the jk blog in 04, I never ever would have believed that phrase, "Blood for oil" but now that I have watched them, and read more than the media tells us, I am utterly convinced that OIL to THEM is THICKER than BLOOD or WATER.

So the only thing I can think of when they ask you is to show them movies like Farenheit 9-11, Outfoxed, and those listed above. I also might take it one step forward too. Bring them to meet Veterans of wars. Get an oral history from Iraq Vets against the War. Invite General Clark to speak in your area. Invite VoteVets to send people to your area to speak. Go to the local VA hospital and volunteer on the floors. (HIPPA rules would certainly preclude any 'interviews' but helping on the wards would be better anyways.)

That's my suggestions.

Kerry: Bush Report Misleads by Claiming Sustainable Progress

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Sen. John Kerry issued the following statement today, in response to the Benchmark Status Report on Iraq that President Bush sent to Congress this morning.

"It's telling that the only report that shows progress in Iraq comes from the same Administration that predicted we'd be greeted as liberators and proclaimed 'mission accomplished.' This Administration is in deep denial. Their misguided account is out of touch with every recent independent Iraq assessment, from General Jones to the GAO report, which found that the Iraqis met only one of eight benchmarks on political reconciliation. The White House needs to stop spinning and start changing course now."

& Ralpheh you are right .. none of them should have voted for the IWR no matter what the reason or what they were told. None of them. That said, I have supported who I have supported on the basis of the overall situation & who they were running against. I have never liked it.

& as far as civilian casualties, I was just sent this:

Poll: Civilian death toll in Iraq may top 1 million

A British survey offers the highest estimate to date. At least 4 die in a Sadr City car bombing.
By Tina Susman, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 14, 2007

BAGHDAD -- -- A car bomb blew up in the capital's Shiite Muslim neighborhood of Sadr City on Thursday, killing at least four people, as a new survey suggested that the civilian death toll from the war could be more than 1 million.

The figure from ORB, a British polling agency that has conducted several surveys in Iraq, followed statements this week from the U.S. military defending itself against accusations it was trying to play down Iraqi deaths to make its strategy appear successful.

The military has said civilian deaths from sectarian violence have fallen more than 55% since President Bush sent an additional 28,500 troops to Iraq this year, but it does not provide specific numbers.

According to the ORB poll, a survey of 1,461 adults suggested that the total number slain during more than four years of war was more than 1.2 million.

ORB said it drew its conclusion from responses to the question about those living under one roof: "How many members of your household, if any, have died as a result of the conflict in Iraq since 2003?"

Based on Iraq's estimated number of households -- 4,050,597 -- it said the 1.2 million figure was reasonable.

more...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/asection/la-fg...

Getting back to our discussions of yesterday. ASS*****

Fox Is Sole Network Not To Air Dem Response After Bush Speech

http://mediamatters.org/items/200709140002?src=item200709140002

Bill Richardson: "Something Is Wrong When The Patriots Face Stiffer Penalties For Spying...Than Cheney And Bush"

From NBC's Mark Murray


... Well, sort of. Richardson just issued this statement linking the New England Patriots spying scandal -- which cost the Pats a first-round draft pick and their coach a fine worth hundreds of thousands of dollars -- and President Bush. Does the link make sense? You be the judge...

"The President has been allowed to spy on Americans without a warrant, and our U.S. Senate is letting it continue," Richardson said. "You know something is wrong when the New England Patriots face stiffer penalties for spying on innocent Americans than Dick Cheney and George Bush."
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/09/14/362426.aspx

Whoooooops the Ass***** are FAUX NEWS guys, not we here at DCP. sorry just woke up.

Oh man, I just heard a Bobby Jindal for Governor ad just now on the radio. I can't find it anywhere online, but you guys will not believe what I just heard.

Fearmongering like that just does not get any more obvious. He went through a whole freaking scenario of 'Imagine!..." being locked down in your house after Katrina, no food no water no help and looters are everywhere and the government comes and takes our GUNS!!! 'The Katrina Gun Grab!"

I am so not freaking kidding. It is over the top blatant.

If anyone can find that ad, please post it.

Posted by: rossiann at September 14, 2007 04:27 PM

I never swear. I will wash my mouth out with soap if I swear. Swearing is bad. In fact as long as I don't swear, I can send people to die even when I lie. If I don't swear, I can have gay sex in an airport bathrooms. And if I don't swear, then I can spy on you illegally, use my public office to break laws, and I can rob from the poor to give to the rich.

Thank God I don't swear.

Posted by: Christy at September 14, 2007 04:29 PM

Check Youtube. Also, try his website.

Along with the thread header, PLEASE take the time to watch this:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/55

PLEASE.

Hey Christian, Christys Son, Welcome from Kangaroo Down Under.

Christian,
If you can, watch the following:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/55

At the least you will see that many ask the same questions. And some try, try very hard, and risk a lot, to just BEGIN to answer them.

I know that Americans have elected cowboy actors, wrestlers and body builders before, but how did it ever happen that this clown got into a position where he could even have an election stolen for him?
Posted by: not my president at September 14, 2007 01:36 PM

Darn it all, that is what I have been asking for 8 years now, how could a coke head, lying drunk, ever be in a position to even steal the elections of 2000 and 2008

Has anyone bothered to mention the collateral cost of 1/2 a million to a million civilian deaths? We don't care about that because those are Iraqis...?

This seems morally indefensible.

Posted by: Ralpheh at September 14, 2007 02:29 PM

Exactly my thinking, 3000 lost souls 9/11, and an est. 1.2 million. Iraqi lost in Georgies illegal war and occupation, I call that mass murder.

Karen

Excellent video. I think one thing that struck me is the way she discussed her documentary and the passion and nervousness in which she communicated.

I think what she is saying and doing is similar to my suggestion behind taking oral histories. These stories take more than 5 second sound bites.

I'm also struck by the phrase, "The Arab nightmare. I had plans for my children...to send them to America to study."

"Tonight they showed the POW's and the American news is not showing those." (etc..)

So striking!!! Isn't his what we've been saying? Without the media, the impact of the war--and the feelings and traumas of those on the other side-- are ignored.

I just feel sick to my stomach knowing what is happening.

I know when I came to the jk blog in 04, I never ever would have believed that phrase, "Blood for oil" but now that I have watched them, and read more than the media tells us, I am utterly convinced that OIL to THEM is THICKER than BLOOD or WATER.

Posted by: sparrow at September 14, 2007 03:52 PM

Excellent definition of them sparrow, Bravo

Go to the local VA hospital and volunteer on the floors. (HIPPA rules would certainly preclude any 'interviews' but helping on the wards would be better anyways.)

That's my suggestions.

Posted by: sparrow at September 14, 2007 03:52 PM

Amen to that, Christian take you friends to the VA hospitals, if you want them to understand the results of Georgies illegal war and occupation.

Thank God I don't swear.

Posted by: Dubya and Turdblossom at September 14, 2007 04:32 PM

Right On disgusting isn't it, the HYPOCRACY of the MORAL RIGHT.

Rossi, the vets hospital is a great idea. (He is off with a friend right now.)

BTW

"Darn it all, that is what I have been asking for 8 years now, how could a coke head, lying drunk, ever be in a position to even steal the elections of 2000 and 2008"

He wasn't in the position to steal it.

His daddy however...was.

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/55

PLEASE.

Posted by: karen at September 14, 2007 04:39 PM

Karen the film is excellent, sitting there watching Jehane talk, I felt so aligned with her and what she was saying, I have four international students staying with me at the moment, one Chinese, one Swiss German, and 2 Korean students, My daughter has two houses that I look after with international students, It is my project the students there are Korean, Turkey, Japan, and Brazilian, what a way to get to know the youngsters of the world, their thoughts, on the Policies of Georgie, watching them make friendships that, they will keep for a life time.
I watch them leave here with adresses from friends across the world, watch them go on to visit the friend that they have made here with me in their own countries, exchange photos of those visits. There is no better way to get to know about their countries, their traditions, and their thoughts.

Christy made me a site of my own, a couple of years back and I wondered what I could do with that site, and it came to me it was a place to store all my memories, past and present, a place to keep all the photos that the students send me when they go back home. And the amazing thing about the internet and msn I can keep in touch with them at all times, and know what is going on in their lives.

Another wonderful thing about it, is I have places to stay all over the world, when travelling, what could anyone else wish for, if they are a traveller hmmmmmm?

His daddy however...was.

Posted by: Christy at September 14, 2007 05:51 PM

To true, with his big money friends.

Black Friday
by Steely Dan

When Black Friday comes
I'll stand down by the door
And catch the grey men when they
Dive from the fourteenth floor

When Black Friday comes
I'll collect everything I'm owed
And before my friends find out
I'll be on the road

When Black Friday falls
you know it's got to be
Don't let it fall on me

When Black Friday comes
I'll fly down to Muswellbrook
Gonna strike all the big red words
From my little black book

Gonna do just what I please
Gonna wear no socks and shoes
With nothing to do but feed
All the kangaroos

When Black Friday comes
I'll be on that hill
You know I will

When Black Friday comes
I'm gonna dig myself a hole
Gonna lay down in it 'til
I satisfy my soul

Gonna let the world pass by me
The Archbishop's gonna sanctify me
And if he don't come across
I'm gonna let it roll

When Black Friday comes
I'm gonna stake my claim
I'll guess I'll change my name

How would we deals with this situation for our children, I cannot begin to imagine having to put my children or grandchildren though the nightmare of Georgies Liberation for the Iraq people

EDUCATION-IRAQ: Back to School, Back to Horror
Ali al-Fadhily*, Inter Press Service

BAGHDAD, Sep 14, 2007 (IPS) - As another school year begins in Iraq, parents approach it with dread, fearing for the safety of their children.

With the security situation grimmer than ever all over the country, just stepping out of one’s house means a serious threat to life.

"God knows how we could send our kids to school this year," Um Mohammed, a mother of five in Baghdad told IPS. "Our financial situation is the worst ever and the prices are way too expensive for the majority of Iraqis to afford. I might have to keep some of them at home and send only two."

The 40-year-old woman shed tears when she started to talk about the family’s financial now compared to what it was before the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

"My God, don’t those Americans have any conscience? We were not rich before, but life was easy and we used to celebrate the school season, watching our kids trying their uniform on and looking at the colourful pictures of their new books," she said.

Iraqis blame their government’s failure to provide them with basic necessities on the U.S.-led occupation that has brought such an incompetent regime to power.

The Iraqi Ministry of Education promised Iraqis a better educational year in 2007, a promise that has been made every year for the past four years.

"The educational system in Iraq is destroyed and we are suffering all kinds of difficulties," said Hassan, a school headmaster in Baghdad who spoke on condition that his last name and the name of his school would not be used. "There will be a shortage of desks, blackboards, water, electricity and all educational supplies – as well as a critical shortage in the number of teachers this year."

Teachers, like other Iraqis, have fled the country because of threats from sectarian death squads. Some were evicted from their areas and moved to others inside Iraq for sectarian reasons.

According to Iraq's Ministry of Higher Education, as of February 2006, nearly 180 professors were killed and at least 3,250 have fled Iraq to the neighbouring countries. The situation has deteriorated severely since then.

"The number of teachers leaving the country this year (2006) is huge and almost double those who left in 2005," Professor Salah Aliwi, director-general of studies planning in the Ministry of Higher Education told reporters during an Aug. 24, 2006 interview in Baghdad. "Every day, we are losing more experienced people, which is causing a serious problem in the education system."

While teachers are at risk, Iraqi families are concerned for the safety of their children as well.

"I am not sending my two boys to school this year," Tariq Ahmed from Baghdad told IPS. "I am sure hundreds, if not thousands, of students will be abducted and killed by militias. I am not gambling with my boys’ life just to support Bush’s lies that the country is safe and sound."

Last month, the Iraqi Ministry of Education warned of possible low attendance of pupils at schools this year, saying it expects at least a 15 percent decrease in attendance compared to previous years.

Leila Abdallah, a senior official at the Ministry of Education, told reporters on Aug. 28 there has been a 54 percent increase in exam failure rates compared to previous years.

She added that many students had not completed their last exams as they had been forced by violence to flee their homes to safer areas.

The Iraqi NGO Keeping Children Alive (KCA), recently said education standards in Iraq had dropped and many schools were relying on teachers teaching at least 100 students per class.

"Owing to lack of teachers, a class now has dozens of students, a situation that is preventing teachers from giving sufficient attention to individual pupils," Moussa Dureid, a spokesperson for the KCA, said.

According to an Oxfam International report released in July, "92 percent of children had learning impediments that are largely attributable to the current climate of fear."

The report added, "Schools are regularly closed as teachers and pupils are too fearful to attend. Over 800,000 children may now be out of school, according to a recent estimate by Save the Children UK -- up from 600,000 in 2004."

Iraqis do not feel secure despite the reassurances of U.S. and Iraqi authorities that the security situation has improved.

"Universities are death squad headquarters," Qutayba Assaad, a professor at Al-Mustansiriya University in Baghdad told IPS. "They are practicing all kinds of torture inside the university and they abducted many of my colleagues because of their sect or their objections to what the clerics are doing inside universities."

"What education are you talking about," Kussay Kathum, a student at Baghdad University told IPS. "This country is dead and its body is being torn apart. They should stop schools and colleges attendance until they solve the core of the problem."

His colleague, Sumaya agreed with him.

"Indeed they should change the whole system in Iraq before sending us to school. It is suicide to go to colleges where the government's militias kill people. It seems that our American colleagues do not care for what is happening to us."

(*Ali, our correspondent in Baghdad, works in close collaboration with Dahr Jamail, our U.S.-based specialist writer on Iraq who travels extensively in the region)
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m36271&hd=&size=1&l=e

British Poll Consistent with Extrapolation of Lancet Death Toll
Robert Naiman, Huffington Post
The Los Angeles Times reported Friday on a poll from Opinion Research Business, a British polling agency. The poll suggests that more than a million Iraqis have died from the conflict resulting from the U.S. invasion and occupation (...) Until now, many - including critics of the war - have shied away from the Lancet estimate because of the lack of independent confirmation. Unfortunately, this has led many to cite the Iraq Body Count tally of deaths reported in Western media as if it were an estimate of the death toll, which it is not. Now that the order of magnitude of the death toll reported by the Lancet study has been independently confirmed, pressure should be redoubled on media outlets to tell the truth about the Iraqi death toll. As Congress is currently debating efforts to end the war, there could not be a more appropriate time to do so...
The Los Angeles Times reported Friday on a poll from Opinion Research Business, a British polling agency. The poll suggests that more than a million Iraqis have died from the conflict resulting from the U.S. invasion and occupation (...) Until now, many - including critics of the war - have shied away from the Lancet estimate because of the lack of independent confirmation. Unfortunately, this has led many to cite the Iraq Body Count tally of deaths reported in Western media as if it were an estimate of the death toll, which it is not. Now that the order of magnitude of the death toll reported by the Lancet study has been independently confirmed, pressure should be redoubled on media outlets to tell the truth about the Iraqi death toll. As Congress is currently debating efforts to end the war, there could not be a more appropriate time to do so...
The Los Angeles Times reported Friday on a poll from Opinion Research Business, a British polling agency. The poll suggests that more than a million Iraqis have died from the conflict resulting from the U.S. invasion and occupation (...) Until now, many - including critics of the war - have shied away from the Lancet estimate because of the lack of independent confirmation. Unfortunately, this has led many to cite the Iraq Body Count tally of deaths reported in Western media as if it were an estimate of the death toll, which it is not. Now that the order of magnitude of the death toll reported by the Lancet study has been independently confirmed, pressure should be redoubled on media outlets to tell the truth about the Iraqi death toll. As Congress is currently debating efforts to end the war, there could not be a more appropriate time to do so...
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m36270&hd=&size=1&l=e

Whoops don't know what happened there, sorry about that.

WOW!!! Two Code Pink demonstrations at the rightwing propaganda factory Heritage Foundation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3SXccaCKDU

(Arredando was at this protest... )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaKok5mloHA

Thank you rossiann and sparrow i will take that into consideration thanks again.

Thank god they are helping!

The Icelandic 'Contingent'
It just about epitomizes the President's speech last night. One of the purported 36 coalition nations is Iceland, whose "contingent" to Iraq consists of a single soldier in Baghdad whose primary responsibility is as a media representative. To NATO's disappointment, Iceland is pulling that one soldier as of October 1. You can't make this stuff up.

We still haven't managed to figure out how the President's math gets him to 36 nations in the coalition. But whatever the number, it will be minus one when a single Icelander heads home in a couple of weeks.

Late Update: TPM Reader EF points out that Iceland doesn't even have a formally constituted military, which the CIA World Fact Book confirms. The lone Icelander is a member of the Icelandic Crisis Response Unit. Calling him a soldier may be overstating matters.

--David Kurtz

There are Republican closet cases in high officialdom everywhere, opposing rights of those who are "out" and not living a lie:

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice co-owned a home and shared a line of credit with another woman, according to Washington Post diplomatic correspondent Glenn Kessler, who reveals the information in his new book, The Confidante: Condoleezza Rice and the Creation of the Bush Legacy.

Kessler discussed the revelations with talk-show host and gay author Michaelangelo Signorile Friday on his Sirius Radio show.

According to the book, Rice owns a home together with Randy Bean, a documentary filmmaker who once worked with Bill Moyers. Kessler made the discovery by looking through real estate records.

Read more:
http://pageoneq.com/news/2007/Secretary_of_State_who_keeps_private_life_shrouded_coowns_home_with_female__0914.

Think it's crap? A friend of mine was their neighbor. Maybe she is bi though - remember her reference to "my husband" when referring to GWB?

Dollar's retreat raises fear of collapse
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/09/13/news/econ.php

Surprise slowdown in US retail sales
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/360a732a-62c8-11dc-b3ad-0000779fd2ac.html

People are actually returning things!

Get your wheelbarrows out - for hauling all that useless currency around.

Posted by: christian at September 14, 2007 07:56 PM

Christian,

I had another idea for you that I just thought of. (Like always, I guess I have to start with a story.)

Last night at work, I saw a flyer from our local recruiter. (I work at a college.) Anyways, the flyer spoke about receiving 65,000 for 'student loans' and then of course it spoke about other monetary gifts.

I looked at the students in the break room with me and asked, "For 65,000 would you go to Iraq? If you did, would you expect to come home whole both mentally and physically? Is 65,000 worth YOUR LIFE, because if you register, you know that's where you'll be going? And do you realize with the 'stop-loss' program that if you were to enlist, you will not come out until you're dead or severely injured?"

Of course being the students that they are, they u understood that the money didn't really cover college completely. They also understood that the VA isn't paying for their healthcare after that either.

But the other questions I could have raised was about the nuclear wastes being used in the bullets that are being used to shoot both the Iraqis and the soldiers themselves. I could have also brought up specifics like Kevlar helmets, armored vehicles, and the minimal troops to even guard the ones who are already there.

So if you want to make a dent in your school, maybe you could start by debunking the recruiters.

Also, maybe you could borrow a practice from the Vietnam era. Tie some yellow ribbons and start wearing bracelets for those serving over there. And maybe you could start a program at school where you can send care packages for the troops (in Iraq or in VA hospitals in your area). (It may be good way to educate and practice caring too.) (I know I saw a site that allowed people to 'adopt a soldier' I just don't remember where it was.)

Oh... Christian if you do do anything like that, don't forget to wear flag pins...

Sparrow
Good suggestions. The yellow ribbon stuff is in this history, and has antecedents all the way from the Civil War but was associated with events after Vietnam.
http://www.loc.gov/folklife/ribbons/ribbons.html

Some people here have signs, etc. that say "Support the Troops .. Bring Them Home" and one elderly lady carries a sign around that says "Support the Troops .. Help Them Go AWOL." I would like to help with conscientious objectors or people like Ehren Watada who question the legality of the way. I went into my field of practice (speech pathology) to work with vets with head trauma and have done so. Those are the ways I choose to offer support.

It also doesn't bother me if someone questions my patriotism. During the Vietnam war, my Canadian hosts asked me if I was patriotic and I, at age 15, said "no" because even then I only prayed for world peace, nothing more, and considered myself a world citizen.

I support all troops equally because I don't believe in war. I support all religions equally because no one has a monopoly on the truth. I am equally interested in all elections and in fact have stronger opinions right now on certain other elections (such as Pakistan and Afghanistan) than on ours.

This is it - despised by the Mann Coulters and Ronald Reagans of the world - the dreaded "secular humanist", defamed along with "L word" (liberals) and "feminazis" (feminists, among which I also claim membership):

http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/definitions.htm

Finally there is a name for it: secular humanist. It's all coming back to me. I admit it!! I am "outing" myself as a secular humanist. We date back to 1944 and there is a society for us!

Bravo, Thomas Paine, role model!

Posted by: not my president at September 14, 2007 08:09 PM

And our 500-600 military will be coming home after the election that we still don't have a date for. We're running out of year so it will have to be soon.

"Support the Troops .. Help Them Go AWOL."

Now that is my kind of support for the troops, good for her

Posted by: not my president at September 14, 2007 09:48 PM

We're running out of year so it will have to be soon.

Posted by: woz at September 14, 2007 11:14 PM

He'll fight it all the way, just like Georgie will

Finally there is a name for it: secular humanist. It's all coming back to me. I admit it!! I am "outing" myself as a secular humanist. We date back to 1944 and there is a society for us!

Posted by: not my president at September 14, 2007 10:01 PM

Count me in.

Every time I hear that awful bush sleazy voice on tv saying that America will be in Iraq for a long time. All Iraqi leaders want that.

Well of course they do! They were installed by the sleazy mongrel himself. If Iraq wants democracy, let them have it. If they want a range of states/regions with autonomous government, let them have it. Hell, if they want any kind of government, let them have it. It's got nothing to do with us. It never had anything to do with us.

And lets face it - our democracy isn't democracy anyway. Our freedom? Limited. Personal security? None. Mainstream Media? Well, I remember the TAS Newsagency of the Soviet Union. US Mainstream Media? Certainly as controlled as TAS.

So, if troops are reduced to take them down to the pre surge numbers - how can that be success? Are we really expected to be dumb enough to fall for this crap?

Now we understand why he was so determined to create a surge. So that when they come home, it will look like we're actually on our way out of the country. Anyone with a functioning brain cell or two would be wise to this. But I forget. The president's brain is tiny and he has no idea what he's doing - except that he's been throwing a tantrum for a very long time - and getting every single thing he wants.

But I forget. The president's brain is tiny and he has no idea what he's doing - except that he's been throwing a tantrum for a very long time - and getting every single thing he wants.

Posted by: woz at September 15, 2007 02:53 AM

Wonder how much longer he is going to get everything that he wants?

More anonymous Iraqi victims buried now than under Saddam
Every month in Iraq hundreds of victims are struck down by sectarian violence or massive bombing campaigns, and a small band of volunteers has taken it upon themselves to give the unclaimed dead a proper burial.

"We've been doing this for 20 years, under Saddam, but the numbers have increased, as have the difficulties," Sheik Jamal al-Sudani, who leads the volunteers, tells CNN correspondent Michael Ware. "Because now it is as if the streets are flowing with blood."

Before the US invasion of Iraq deposed dictator Saddam Hussein, the volunteers buried up to 40 people every month. In the war's worst months, that figure increased 50-fold as volunteers buried an average of more than 2,000 anonymous war victims, Ware reports.

As the war stretches through its fifth year, several hundred bodies remain unclaimed every month. The unidentified bodies of men, women and children are found on Iraqi streets and sewers as well as in bombing ruins; some are "so mangled and charred, they're unidentifiable," CNN says, while others are Sunni victims whose families are too fearful from their own lives to visit Iraq's Health Ministry morgue, which is controlled by Muqtada al-Sadr's hard-line Shiite followers.

The Shiite volunteers led by al-Sudani bury victims of all religions, and the bodies are photographed and catalogued in a database before they are buried in the Muslim tradition.

Volunteers take the bodies from Baghdad 150 miles away to Najaf where they are buried in hand-dug graves. Because of the high numbers, two victims often have to share a grave.

Al-Sudani laments the necessity of his work in the war zone.

""Now you see Iraqis' houses, meant to be a family's safest place, have become like graves for their families, because any minute, any second, they're ready to die by explosion, airstrikes or car bombs," he says. "And no man, and no government, American or Iraqi, can fix it because now that will take a miracle."

The following video is from CNN's Newsroom, broadcast on September 14.
http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Baghdad_morgues_unclaimed_buried_several_to_0914.html

FOLLOW THE MONEY
Krugman: Bush backer banks on Iraq's failure
Nick Juliano
Published: Friday September 14, 2007
A Texas oil company whose CEO is a longtime confidant of President Bush with access to the most closely held US intelligence has entered into an agreement to explore for oil in Iraq's semi-autonomous Kurdistan region.

The agreement shows that Dallas-based Hunt Oil Co. and its chief executive Ray L. Hunt are "effectively betting against the survival of Iraq as a nation," argues New York Times columnist Paul Krugman.

Hunt raised about $100,000 for Bush during the president's 2000 campaign, and he serves on the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board, which gives him access to some of the most exclusive data collected by US spy agencies.

"What's interesting about this deal is the fact that Hunt, thanks to his policy position, is presumably as well-informed about the actual state of affairs in Iraq as anyone in the business world can be," Krugman observers. "By putting his money into a deal with the Kurds, despite Baghdad's disapproval, he's essentially betting that the Iraqi government -- which hasn't met a single one of the major benchmarks Bush laid out in January -- won't get it's act together."

Condemnation of the deal between Hunt Oil and the Kurdish provisional government was swiftly condemned by Iraq's oil minister Hussain al Shahristani, who declared the deal illegal days after it was announced, despite the Kurds' entreaties to share revenues.

Since Bush announced his surge strategy in January, Iraq has failed to achieve any of the benchmarks for political progress toward reconciliation -- a fact that was conveniently omitted from the president's prime-time address Thursday. Indeed, just days after the Hunt-Kurdistan agreement came reports that negotiations over an oil-revenue sharing law -- seen as the primary key to allowing Iraq to reconcile -- have apparently collapsed.

"The smart money, then, knows that the surge has failed, that the war is lost, and that Iraq is going the way of Yugoslavia," Krugman writes. "And I suspect that most people in the Bush administration -- maybe even Bush himself -- know this, too."

Oil is Iraq's primary resource, accounting for two-thirds of its GDP and nearly all of the government's revenue. The Bush-backer-backed fractionalization of the country's oil revenue gives little hope the country can recover from the quagmire and civil war it finds itself in following the US invasion and five-year occupation.

"Oil is perhaps the key incentive warring factions have to stop fighting and take an interest in the stabilization of their country," says blogger Brian Beutler, a former Raw Story reporter. "That it wasn't enough says something important."
http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Krugman_Bush_backer_banks_on_Iraqs_0914.html

GOP activist jailed for lurid assault

Michigan GOP activist gets 5 years for sex assault

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/118976097330620.xml&coll=2

GOP activist jailed for lurid assault

Michigan GOP activist gets 5 years for sex assault

Posted by: rossiann at September 15, 2007 04:33 AM

Another one. You'd have to be too embarrassed to join or vote for such a pack of slimy maggots. Slime sticks, they say.

OMG. 5 am on a saturday and already slimy maggots is the topic.

I knew I should have killed that alarm clock with a hammer.

Hey Sparrow, I am sorry darlin, for some reason, like when Rossi posted behind you about the vets hospital, your post was not yet showing on my scroll. I don't know why, but it's been doing that to me a lot lately. I thanked Rossi not you, my bad.

I really appreciate the kindness towards my son. At some point yesterday I realized I can only take him so far, you know, politically. I can teach him what the word pacifisim means but I can not teach him how to truly be one.

After Karen said that about being here to teach I decided really the only way to put him in it was to throw him into it. There is so much I can not tell him, he just has to see for himself.

I was pregnant with him when the first Gulf War began. It is almost unbeievable I am sitting here 16 years later trying desperately to think of how to keep him out of Iraq.

I knew I should have killed that alarm clock with a hammer.

Posted by: Christy at September 15, 2007 06:04 AM

Sorry Christy - I'm usually here talking to myself.

I was pregnant with him when the first Gulf War began. It is almost unbeievable I am sitting here 16 years later trying desperately to think of how to keep him out of Iraq.

Posted by: Christy at September 15, 2007 06:20 AM

Surely it will be resolved that Iraq owns Iraq and the US owns the US, before you have to emigrate to Canada for a while. Frankly, I've been wondering - since the US services are way overstretched, and recruitment is the worst it's ever been - who is going to go and drop the bombs and shoot up Iran?

I was called in for jury service for a couple of weeks and the lady I sat next to - her husband had just arrived home from working in Iran. He's only home for a short while. Not sure what he's doing but he's an engineer.

Sorry Christy - I'm usually here talking to myself.

Posted by: woz at September 15, 2007 06:26 AM

HAHA! Not a prob.

"Surely it will be resolved that Iraq owns Iraq and the US owns the US, before you have to emigrate to Canada for a while. Frankly, I've been wondering - since the US services are way overstretched, and recruitment is the worst it's ever been - who is going to go and drop the bombs and shoot up Iran?"

Well, if it is not resolved soon, then they will draft. I tend to believe he will draftas the last act of his presidency.

He can continue the war indefinately, while removing himself from the circle of blame.

I am afraid either way I will lose my son. If they do draft, I will have no choice but to beg Rossi to put him up for a while and pay coyotes to take him across the southern border. I thought about the Quakers, and going north, but it is too far to go north, it is just more likly he will be intercepted.

If they draft, and I help him leave, he will never be able to come home again.

But Istill would rather lose him like that, than to bury his flag draped coffin.

I just realized he does not know that part yet, because I can not tell him or discuss it with him while looking at him.

If they draft, and I help him leave, he will never be able to come home again.

God help me, but I can not open my mouth and say that to him.

The trouble with creative people - and mothers - is that we let the mind take us to places we'd be better not going. From the day my first son was born I had to work really hard at not worrying about things that might never happen.

Plenty of things did happen. But not the things I worried about. I believe that we spend a lot of time wasting our worry. The time wasted worrying about things that maybe wouldn't happen, could be better spent enjoying each other while we all were well enough and able to enjoy the time.

In terms of the draft. This fiasco has been enough for all to reject the draft. Our kids are NOT expendable.

Woz,

We are possibly one of the mightiest military empires ever to rise on this earth.

I don't worry about things, usually. I have tough kids.

But these bastards will not let the military might of this empire collapse without doing everything in their power to stop the hemmorage, they do not care if it means our kids die. Our kids are already expendable to them.

Unless georgie is stopped cold in his tracks, there will be a draft. And there is no one in DC right now willing or able to stop it.

I got over my fears of kidnapping or childhood diseases long ago. But this is different.

I have no doubt in my mind the draft is coming. Probably within the next year.

Christy, enjoy Christian now. While he is at that amazing stage of being an adult sometimes but also a child. It takes a mother to see that child; to see the vulnerability beneath the cconfident outlook.

And no matter how old your son gets, you will always see that small boy, confused at times, and ready to embrace the world. Trust that the catastrophes happening all around the world, will end. Trust that more people want peace.

You have heard them Woz, we all have.

They have made solid plans to keep us there for a minimum of 10 years. And that is just the optimists time frame.

There is only one way they could ever ensure that. They have always been planning to draft.

They have been planning and preparing for it all along.

Well, I hope that there will be more people in your country who will not allow it.

Civil disobedience. We're all getting good at it. We've had practice.

As a matter of a fact, every single one of those 10, 15, 25 year plans, are based on drafting our sons.

georgie is fighting this war with greencard soldiers and a private mercenary army all paid for by money hes borrowing from China.

That is the true reason the 'US Military' has become a joke. They use shadow armies to start wars then replace them with our own kids when they can no longer stay in the shadows.

They have virtually no choice but to draft, or give up everything they have been planning for the next 10 years. Even the elite dems are talking in terms of a decade or so.

War profits all taste the same no matter which side of the table you are being served on.

Wow. I never thought I would say it, but how can we be living in the days where Newt Freaking Gingritch looks sane?

Gingrich: Republicans need "clean break" from Bush

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1446262920070914?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true

I never did Thank that man. He is the reason I am no longer a republican.

~new thread~

Posted by: rossiann at September 15, 2007 04:12 AM

There a a few truth tellers at CNN (like Cafferty, Anderson) but more are the ones who just blather out the Republican or Presidential spin.

That's too bad because though they are not quite as big of liars they are still lying so can not be trusted. And if you ask anyone, "Should a news network tell the truth or just give equal time for debate?" then I think most people would pick the truth instead of debate. Course what do I know...?

But I think at least more people are recognising the truth of what I said in 04--the media lies, the media hides the truth, and the media can't be trusted. The things that have happened that I share with them that has finally convinced them:

1. Jesselyn's story.
2. The election fraud in 04 that never made the media until the RFK story.
3. Katrina
3. Plame, Wilson, Fitzgerald (and the wonderful jurors who called a spade a spade!)
4. Bush taking away Scooter's jail time
5. The lawyer DOJ purge

Maybe there's more. Like for my brother to listen to me about the Mexican Truck Crossing Program and how the hating immigrants stategy was an election year plan to get the 'masses' while the corps would benefit beneath the surface. This is the same brother who bought the spin after Katrina that that "You just hate Bush."

So anyways, I wouldn't say the media is improving but that once in a while there are flashes of truth in it.

I don't think the US is a major power now. Mexican goods are half price for Americans, and US goods are half price for the British. They are taking flights over here to snatch up check Nikes and Levis. I hear British accents every time I go out. Las Vegas was crawling with them, over here to slum.

As for the mighty military empire, it's all negotiated for on credit and that credit is starting to get pulled. There are young bodies coming up all the time that could be cannon fodder, but they must be starting to question whether they want to be suiciders for the Lord. Unless they reinstate the draft, they will never have enough, and if they reinstate the draft, they will have people going in who are harder to brainwash. Then it will really be Vietnam-like.

As for Newt Gingrich, he engineered the effort for a permanent Republican majority in all three branches of government. The only reason Gingrich is distancing from Bush is that he wants more Republicans to win office. He is one of the main people who got us to where we are now. If there is a hell, he should be the first to burn it it, after being forced to listen to a million multiracial gay and lesbian devils singing Kumbayah and If I Had a Hammer.

As for Iraq, only 36 Nation magazines have made it into the country past Homeland Security's ban. There is no problem picking up Rush Limbaugh if you are in a military zone. I think a good care package it would be a big air drop over the Green Zone of the Porn of the Progressives: Mother Jones, Nation, Utne Reader, The Progressive and a few nonpolitical things for diversion.

All the positive energy in the universe to those protesting the war in Washington DC and other cities today.

Posted by: Christy at September 15, 2007 06:20 AM

Hey, no problem.

Regarding the draft and your son. Yes, I believe next year there will be a draft. But I believe there will be a revolution if that happens or if Bush tries to stop the elections.

Sorry, but it's not just Democrats who are mad as H***. When my Republican friends are moaning and groaning, wondering why the chicken-sh** Dems are not impeaching Bush and Cheney (and in fact WISHING they would impeach), I can sincerely attest to the fact that a revolution doesn't sound as extreme as it once did.

Analysts: US Strikes on Iran Predicted Over Nuclear Fears
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/091507Z.shtml
The Guardian UK's Julian Borger and Ian Black published a "special report" Saturday warning that "the growing US focus on confronting Iran in a proxy war inside Iraq risks triggering a direct conflict in the next few months."

Posted by: not my president at September 15, 2007 11:03 AM

Really? You have to be freakin' kidding me!

Posted by: not my president at September 15, 2007 09:07 AM

Oh, my gosh, nmp. I was just going to lurk and be real quiet, but that is one of the funniest posts I have ever read. (Re: Gingrich and Kumbaya) (ROFLOL!!!!)

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