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Of Jesus, God, Mormon, Baptist and "Faith Voters"
Well, once again, I find myself listening to political crap so you folks don't have to. However, in this case, I think you might want to catch it on You Tube and see what you think, and come back here and give your opinion. For what it's worth, here's mine.
Former Massachusetts Governor Williard Romney, Republican Candidate for President of the United States gave a speech at the George HW Bush Library in College Station, Texas, this morning on faith, values, mormon(little m), my Jesus is your Jesus, and Patriots for jesus (big P, little j).
It was carried live and uninterrupted by MSNBC and, I think, CNN as well. It has been hyped by boht of them for three days non-stop, or roughly since Huckabee moved into first place in Iowa.
Ostensibly, it was designed to make people less fearful of his Mormon beliefs, and how really is a Christian, just like you, America.
Here's what it was: It was appalling to me that ANY primary candidate for office gets over an hour of from media time (including pregame and post game), by himself, to talk about his faith. Is this going to be offered to anyone else?
Here's the problem with that for ALL other candidates: Williard was introduced by a former President, he had almost a half hour of unquestioned, unchallenged, and uniterrupted prime air time to say whatever he wanted. Do you have any idea what that would cost in real dollar terms? If I were another candidate who was not able to get that same opportunity, I would be suing the ASS off of the cable stations, if for no other reason than it amounted to an enormous unrecorded de facto campaign contribution.
The next HUGE problem, is that the only people who get that much "speech" time, such as Romney had, are either already their party's candidate for the highest office in the land, or they are already the President. This action dramatically elevates how people will view Romney. It elevated him to Presidential in a way that only this opportunity, afforded no one else, could. Disgusting. And Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanan, and Sally Quinn did the color commentary for MSNBC.
Now having said that, how was the speech? The speech was beautiful There were some passages that were absolutely stirring. It was well written. Romney's delivery, however, was not up to the quality of the speech. I feel like sending the speechwriter a case of scotch. Romney delivered it too fast, and he gives me the impression that he has almost as much Botox in his face as Judy Nathan does. There are lots of muscles that just don't move. And he never uses his hands (as Bill Clinton does effectively), nor does he effectively use any tonal or emphatic range of expression in his voice that would have made the speech Kennedyesque. Yeah, the speech could have been that good, and the whole episode could have been that devastating to his opponents. Unfortunately, he went too fast in the beginning, used none of the sense of drama or crescendo that the speech itself contained, and it came out fairly flat to me.
Like I said, I so want to send the speechwriter a case of scotch.
Did it work to set at ease the minds of Iowa voters who know nothing about mormonism beyond the Osmond family, Wayne Jeffers and Big Love? Well, they wouldn't have found out a whole lot about Mormonism from this speech, except that he believes that Jesus is the son of God and the details aren't important. I suspect that some evangelicals will disagree about the details part.
Did it work on Matthews, Scarborough, Buchanan, Kuo, and Quinn? It sure as hell had Matthews, Scarborough and Buchanan believing that Jesus Christ himself would be coming by any minute to give Williard a high five from God. Interestingly, Kuo, the only person there really qualified to speak on how this would likely be perceived by evangelical voters, was far from convinced. And Sally Quinn chirped up with "this speech completely demolishes the line between Church and State". Her comment was ignored. I don't mean pointedly ignored. I mean it was if she had never spoken. Now normally, I think Quinn is God awful. I mean, really bad. A true Hostess of the Washington as Village beltway culture set. But she made a powerful observation and was utterly ignored. Unheard. That's noteworthy.
Overall, I have to say this--all of this Romney Mormonism versus Huckabee's Southern Baptist Ministerism, versus Guiliani's Catholicism, and Fred Thompson's "I'm good with Jesus-sim"... well, I don't get it. I don't. They are all rushing to say that religious tests are bad, oh, and by the way, I'm God's choice for President, and then lying up a storm about how their beliefs won't impact how they run the country.
Of course it will impact how they run the country. From A-Z, from Roe to Wade. Personally, I think every Christian out there should be wondering why they ALL aren't vanishing in a hail of fire and thunderbolts every time one of them opens their mouths. I know I am, and I'm not exactly a believer in the Big Black Book of Magic, or in organized religion as it's used by many of them
In the end, to me, it just looks like they are arguing about who has the best imaginary friend.
I'm looking for something a little deeper in my candidate for President.. It's past time for the crusades to be over.
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A man walked into a very high-tech bar. As he sat down on a stool he noticed that the bartender was a robot. The robot clicked to attention and asked, "Sir, what will you have?"
The man thought a moment then replied? "A martini please."
The robot clicked a couple of times and mixed the best martini the man had ever had.
The robot then asked, "Sir, what is your IQ?" The man answered "Oh, about 164."
The robot then proceeded to discuss the 'theory of relativity', inter-stellar space travel', the latest medical breakthroughs, etc...
The man was most impressed. He left the bar but thought he would try a different tact. He returned and took a seat. Again the robot clicked and asked what he would have? "A martini please."
Again it was superb.? The robot again asked "What is your IQ sir?"
This time the man answered , "Oh about 100". So the robot started discussing NASCAR racing, the latest basketball scores, and what to expect the Dodgers to do this week end.
The guy had to try it one more time. So he left, returned and took a stool..... light beer for me, and the question, "What is your IQ?" This time the man drawled out " Uh..... bout 50".
The robot clicked then leaned close and very slowly asked,
"A-r-e...
y-o-u-r...
p-e-o-p-l-e...
g-o-i-n-g...
t-o.
n-o-m-i-n-a-t-e..
M-I-T-T ?????
"In the end, to me, it just looks like they are arguing about who has the best imaginary friend."
Best.Line.Ever.
Thank you Casey for sparing me, although of course now I HAVE to go and watch the nonverbal.
ack.
I see a headline that says Romney vows to "serve no one religion."
That's perfect.
If someone would really follow that, it would be great.
The "separation between church and state" would still be critical but would apply to everyone equally.
So would anything "faith-based."
There could be no official support for religious wars, no lining up with people like Ann Coulter who preach the "perfection" of people until they are her type of Christian.
There could be no official support for this fad of calling this country a "Christian nation" or penalizing people, stores etc. who say "Happy Holidays" (because after all, Hannukah, Kwanza, Divali, Yule fall around the same time).
If Romney or anyone else would actually give equal respect to Christianity, Judaism, Hindhuism, Wicca, Buddhism, etc. then I would fall off my chair.
I know I am one who has been accused of "Christian-bashing" on this site. All I have ever wanted is freedom of spirituality and equal time for others, and also the freedom of speech to remind people that there is a wide spread within each religion, just as there is in politics.
Really, the two should not mix but all have some good values. Already today I have heard about a pregnant woman on bedrest living in a hotel with ehr children because her house burnt down and that is only the beginning.
It should not be a question of whether the church or the state helps her. There should be procedures in place immediately that she should follow to get help.
This administration has done everything it can to destroy "safety nets" that we all should enjoy and to make sure "family values" over-rid concern with the state helping to provide a decent life for the greater good.
I'm sick of living in a dog-eat-dog nation. It made me sick to my stomach to hear the rich Iowa woman on the radio who said, "I am tired of paying for school lunches for other peoples' children." She admitted to being very wealthy.
No religion teaches people to act like that.
NMP:You wrote "If someone would really follow that, it would be great."
I thought the really interesting thing, especially in light of Quinn's ignored observation, but MOSTimportant, in light of the fact that this was supposed to be Mitt's Kenndy like moment on religion and government, is that in Kennedy's speech, he expressly, and by expressly, I mean he used the EXACT WORDS words about the seperation of church and state being absolute, even going so far (and this was big for a Catholic who had been raised and whose family financially supported many Catholic and Jesuit schools) he made the statement RIGHT IN THE SPEECH ITSELF that NO parochial schools should receive ANY government funding.
This is just another part of what pisses me off about our ignorant lazyass media. All of the people who did color commentary on that speech knew that it was Romney's "Kennedyesque" religion speech, and yet clearly NONE of the reviewed the material and or made any notes for comparison. and yet they all referred to the comparison many many times before the speech.
The difference in message about the separation of church and state between Kennedy and Romeny could NOT have been more stark, and yet they ignored Quinn's comment, as if she were a chair of ether, and completely missed the most obvious place for comparison.
Sychophant and stupid is never pretty.
Here's the quote from the Kennedy speech:
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishoners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.
Here's the text from the whole speech from 1960. It's beyond brilliant. It's just about exactly what I believe the role of faith should be in a democracy: http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/JFK/JFK+Pre-Pres/Address+of+Senator+John+F.+Kennedy+to+the+Greater+Houston+Ministerial+Association.htm?loc=interstitialskip
You can also listen to his delivering it.
God, what a leader. I could just cry all day.
NMP
What I wanted to say all along. Great - and thanks.
Unless you consider neoliberalism a religion, which it's fast becoming.
not my president said:
"I see a headline that says Romney vows to "serve no one religion."
That's perfect.
If someone would really follow that, it would be great."
NMP: As a resident of Massachusetts, I am no Romney fan. But I actually believe this statement of his. Yes, he is mormon, but I don't think he sees that as relevant. In other words, that's someone else's fight, that he has been drawn into.
I don't see him trying to convert the nation, or rule by the book of mormon or anything. He's a business man. Who happens to be a mormon. I don't think he thinks of himself as the opposite. Just my impression.
That said, NOT voting for him.
Casey
I am not surprised the commentators did not review Kennedy's speech and position on governing, separation of church & state, and being Catholic.
I think about France where many people are Catholic, yet they have very firm separation of church and state.
I wonder if people really remember what the "state" is anymore? I think it comes down to the philosophical issue of which is paramount - the individual and immediate family or society as a whole.
I think over time it's gotten to where some in this country (and not only this country) think it's Communistic or Socialistic to see much of ANY role for the "state" (federal government, as funded by the taxpayers).
I would love to see us go back to a system where people cared about society in general, and realized that if the poorest among us had a modicum of decent living standard, it would benefit everyone, each individual.
For example, if children DID eat breakfast (no matter who had to pay for it) and WERE educated, and WERE healthy, imagine how our prison population might go down. As it is, don't we have one of the highest infant mortality rates, largest percentage of people with no health care, and relatively largest percentage of people in prison among the developed nations?
Have to run so no access to stats but have read things r/t this over and over.
It's so hypocritical to have so many selfish people who simultaneously talk about compassion or giving, especially at this time of year. It's shameful.
I'm still waiting for the day when my spiritual beliefs and perspectivea are taken serious by the establishment.
Photo of Romney in JFK pose:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/was-the-photo-d.html
Carol
That is so staged!
The worst since the contrived downing of the Saddam statue and the creation of a George HW Bush statue in the airport named after him that is posed exactly like Michaelangelo's David in Florence, Italy. Or maybe the "Mission Accomplished" stunt on the aircraft carrier by GW Bush.
& I suppose people fall for it, even subconsciously.
In light of my comment above, I've been mulling over this issue and, not having been paying quite as close attention lately, I'm worried.
All this fuss about religion is, once again, the Republicans and the media framing the debate, and pulling the attention off of the real issues that we face. While it is inevitable that the R candidates will get some attention and some press, they are once again being portrayed as the party of faith, while the dems are talking about the issues.
My comment that Romney is mainly a business man who happens to be a mormon brought this home for me. Most of us are people who may or may not have a faith. But we do our jobs and the world goes on around us and maybe we practice our faith or not.
I believe that Huckabee is probably a really evangelical guy who spreads the word and all that. It probably effects every decision he makes. I think the rest of the candidates are just like the rest of us. they do their jobs, and maybe they practice their faith, or maybe not.
But for the media and the R party to make this all about faith - AGAIN - means that once again, we didn't anticipate what was going to happen.
We should be talking about the war. We should be talking about health care. We should be talking about poverty.
Instead, we're talking about who is the most holy.
How did we get here - again????
I'm still waiting for the day when my spiritual beliefs and perspectivea are taken serious by the establishment.
Matt--I think there are alot more folks out there who take you beliefs, as well as mine, seriously. In fact, I think that's the point of fellowship. Not matter where we are, we seem to find each other.
And i don't know if it's deliberate iconoclasm on my part, but the day that the establishment takes my spirutual beliefs seriously, I'm gonna get worried.
Carol
It may happen on a national level, but I think the Republican candidates are emphasizing religion because there are alot of conservative evengelicals in Iowa and Romney and Huckabee are ahead of Giuliani in the polls there. They want to get those folks out to caucus.
I hope we don't have to listen to this stuff all the way through the general election and beyond!